EPTTL Mafia XLVIII - Page 71
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role and/or determining the algnment of someone by assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role is rediculous. Annul claims he was shot and protected. Annul is not confirmed scum by this and a doc protecting him confirms nothing. As a town we need to stop basing huge conckusions off of ALMOST 100% unconfirmed data. You want to know what an easy case for scum to jump on looks like? One that is based in assumed facts that are just not confirmable. I have no idea what annuls alignment is but I can certwinly say there is nothing about his claim of being protected in no way suggests any one single conclusion let alone confirming one. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:42 Erandorr wrote: If you are so convinced, why don't you make that case? On December 08 2011 05:44 Lanaia wrote: Personally, I wouldn't've protected either annul or syllo if I'd been a medic. I'd've protected supersoft. A newer player could have protected annul over syllo for lack of knowing. Erandorr, one more thing... Why are you so blatantly following Palmar? In your answers, I saw very little thought that was your own. @Mattchew If you're looking for a case, why don't you make one on Eran? Ok. Erandorr Last game in Scum QT Syllo is one of the best players period he would be an extremely important kill. Plus palmar respects him a ton and if those two got things rolling together that would get very scary why would you waste anything on annul??? especially a double hit. Nah shit happens to overconfident scum. if they were smart they would look at all the players who were content sitting back and not contributing shit (like me). One or two players have to set themselves up to lead town if we get palmar out of the way. so grey and red , get on it! If you read his last game (scum) in between the mayoral campaign and mass vote switch it reads extremely similar to this game game This is what I am using to point my finger at Erandorr. I'll answer any questions should anything need further explanation. I am still voting redFF but this is why I can be persuaded to Erandorr | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine. I have my own problems with annul so far, but none of them make me think he is the best lynch today. There are other reasons he may be scum, but you're not offering any of them. Annul was just barely on the town side of null for me at the end of N1, and he is still there now. What the fuck? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:09 vaderseven wrote: Stop asking for a mysterious medic to come forward. The person that can best say why a medic would have protected annul is that medic himself. Why give the scum a possible way to detect you through motive posting. Assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role and/or determining the algnment of someone by assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role is rediculous. Annul claims he was shot and protected. Annul is not confirmed scum by this and a doc protecting him confirms nothing. As a town we need to stop basing huge conckusions off of ALMOST 100% unconfirmed data. You want to know what an easy case for scum to jump on looks like? One that is based in assumed facts that are just not confirmable. I have no idea what annuls alignment is but I can certwinly say there is nothing about his claim of being protected in no way suggests any one single conclusion let alone confirming one. Ok we understand you don't like the annul case. Can you please present something about someone other than palmar? | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:13 Mattchew wrote: Ok. Erandorr Last game in Scum QT If you read his last game (scum) in between the mayoral campaign and mass vote switch it reads extremely similar to this game game This is what I am using to point my finger at Erandorr. I'll answer any questions should anything need further explanation. I am still voting redFF but this is why I can be persuaded to Erandorr Do you think I am more likely to flip scum than RedFF? | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:37 Mattchew wrote: I am keeping my ##vote redFF because I have yet to see a case against someone I truly believe in. If someone can start a movement towards erandorr with a little more of a case then I can be swayed that way. this post is so scummy I don't even. but fuck it there's bigger fish to fry Palmar has no goddamn scumreads On December 04 2011 22:42 Palmar wrote: syllo flipping town only reinforces my previous point about this being a way to plant seeds of doubts towards a very strong town player's alignment.Annoying may not be the word you use, but just think about our last game as town together where I was running for mayor. Your approach towards me is not the same. In addition, how would you feel about randomly lynching on day 1. I mean completely random, we just have some kinda rng generator choose our lynch for the day. palmar suggesting random lynching day 1?I'll direct you guys to last game where palmar was town(xlvii) In the last 7 games I have played as town, I have successfully pushed for mafia lynch on day 1 this is a town player incredibly confident in his day 1 play. Palmar has caught scum day 1 before multiple times before, yet this game he is ok with random lynching???come on... maybe it was a joke, maybe we'll see some scumhunting!!! On December 06 2011 01:02 Palmar wrote: ok I'm a dayvig. Post your notes, every single one, unedited in the next 1 hour or I kill you. oh no of course not sorry, we'll just see some incredibly ott and unnecessary move to get vader to post his notes. you could've just asked... All this move from palmar does is make it look like he is actively scumhunting. You wanna know something else? V7 still hasn't posted his notes, and palmar does not give a fuck. On December 06 2011 01:42 Palmar wrote: Ok awesome. Now you have to shoot someone. May I suggest you kill Drazerk? he had provided no reasoning as to how drazerk was scum, he just followed soap and then demanded v7 to shoot him. I'm not scum, just look at the people who are on my wagon, only newbies and bad people. Not a single one out of the people that actually try to play mafia with any kind of brain activity are trying to get me killed. by saying this, Palmar attempts to make it out that everyone on his wagon is terrible/dumb, and that you shouldn't vote him unless you're terrible/dumb. nobody wants to be terrible/dumb right? It's an easy way to deter people (especially newbs) from voting him, without actually defending himself or talk about the game.On December 06 2011 06:33 Palmar wrote: That's because it's logical. Do you know why people like Radfield, Jackal, Syllo, Sandroba, redFF are the people I listed as good when the game started? It's because they're capable of reading a situation like this and understanding what the hell is going on. references the vets, buddies up to us, more calling everyone voting him bad. On December 06 2011 08:49 Palmar wrote: i already pointed out while palmar's case is fallacious, but once again. he compares a case made early day 1 to a case made late day 2. Of coures the day 2 case is going to be better/have more information. :derp:##Vote Hier Based on a few things I'd like to vote Hier. I think voting for syllogism without good reasons early in the game makes no sense. Especially after Hier should've learned that he cannot assume that his logic is solid after XLVII. In addition, I feel the tone/direction of the case is different. His case against me in XLVII looked like it was reasonably genuine, just using naive reasoning. This case on the other hand looks like it's much more forced with a lot less content behind it. Just read it yourselves, here is his case this game: And here is his case from XLVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12474384 Here's his XLVII filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=55311&user=55311 Notice that a right after posting the initial case against me, he's around, willing to argue his ideas, keeps pushing it, because he genuinely thinks that this is the correct way to move forward. However, he didn't even post again after presenting his case against syllogism this game. Never mind actually trying to make something out of that case. I can't help but feel Hier has no actual intention of getting syllogism lynched and is simply content with not being called out. My vote, and the extra vote, are going on hier ##Unvote ##Vote Hier On December 06 2011 10:21 Palmar wrote: I'm town, you're terrible at mafia. By the way, I need to sleep it's 1am at my time. If I get lynched. Everyone on this wagon should take a good long hard look at their play, because there is a reason all the players who are commonly considered good have stayed the hell away from my lynch. I know my play hasn't been very productive in this game, I wanted to have a laid back/fun game after the massive pain in the ass that was XLVII. I wanted to play casually and troll around a bit, so I was happy when I got town with a fairly non-important role. That doesn't change the fact that that nothing about my play has been scummy. Anyone saying that is simply incorrect, a fact that will be proven by my lynch. I want that to sink in. If I do get lynched, you guys are taking active stance against some of the best players TL has to offer, and have the audacity to dare think you're right. You obviously aren't, but feel free to fail before you believe me. There is no excuse for voting me at this time. You will not be able to say "But Palmar was playing badly", because that doesn't make me scum. Bad != scum. And you will not be able to say that we had no better lynch, because a no-lynch is preferable to killing townies. Remember that, when/if I flip. This may be the most polarizing lynch I've ever seen in mafia, seperating good players from bad players. I am fully aware I made myself a target. Does that make me mafia? Hell no. There are only two reasons to be on my wagon when I flip. a) You're incredibly bad b) You're scum Good night. this post is similar to his give up post in xlvii, and it's intentionally made to look the same. Did palmar think he was going to be lynched yesterday? HELL NAWW, but he posted this anyway. Once again calling everyone voting him bad, his wagon terrible etc...while not talking about anything game related. you know what the best part is. An anonymous vote is such a fucking scummy ability, you can put it anywhere and nobody will be any wiser, but instead palmar claimed it. He's doing this in a way to make him seem pro-town by claiming a scummy role in a townie way. But instead of putting his extra vote to good use and using it to pressure people day 1(which he has a fucking excellent track record as as town), he put it on fucking hier, a wagon that sprang up like 6 hours before day end. I applaud the ballsiness of the claim palmar, but it isn't enough. you're mafia. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I have a neutral to slightly scum read on lanaia's posting style but nothing that helps me to feel good about a case so i have her marked as 'cant tell.' I have you marked as being full of bad ideas and questions (not bad questions) (also no hate!!!) but un readable as of now beyond that. Redff strikes me as scummy and I plan to present that later on. His style is so differrnt though that I reserve saying anyhing beyond that he strikes ne as such till I comb his filter and look at some items. Prplhz I couldnt decide on things after reading some of his stuff. I do feel like the most important issue we face right now is palmar and via proxy annul. We are being led on half facts and assumptions into a tunnel vision esk discussion. I'll flesh my thoughts on those I just mentioned as well as maybe some others tonight over a cup of coffee. For now I can give you this. | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:01 Lanaia wrote: Can you explain the link with Palmar flipping red = we need to lynch vader? I would appreciate an answer to this. If I've missed it, I'm sorry. I just don't get the logic behind it. I really fail to see where you were going with it. Also I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to quote the QT from last game as I'm pretty sure we never gave it out. Read this spoiler please. + Show Spoiler + Also, I feel the need to quote this again... On December 06 2011 10:44 Incognito wrote: Enough with the SPAM. Stop posting one liners or there will be --- Posts like these: as well as the other one liners are unacceptable. Please consolidate your posting and keep this thread readable. Thanks! And this... On December 07 2011 12:17 wherebugsgo wrote: Hey all, please cut down on the one liner spam. Incog has asked at least twice already and I have received a PM from a player about the spam situation. This will be the last warning before more serious consequences begin to appear. as you guys are ignoring it, it seems. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Radfield, if you had to lynch one of Palmar or Sandroba, which would it be and why? Sandro 10 times out of 10. I think Palmar is town, I think Sandro is somewhat scummy right now. However, on rereading his filter he looks better than I had thought. A few thoughts: * His early game felt forced * He was one of the people who tried to make both Palmar and vaderseven look scummy after the dayvig exchange Other than that it's simply that he hasn't contributed much. Sandro wrote: Annul is playing very simillar to what he did day1 in the last game, which made me suspicious of him. However he did shape up day 2 and I was able to correctly identify him as town that game. I'll reserve judgement to tomorrow if I'm alive, if not it's up to you bastards to decide. @Annul Can you please point me to a game where you lasted a bit as scum, I'm in a mood to read right now. What can you tell me about your read of annul's last scum game? Was it similar to this game or XLVII? You state annul was very similar to a previous game where he was town, does that still hold? If he hadn't claimed a hit today would you still think him very scummy and worth a lynch? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:32 Lanaia wrote: Mattchew, you ignored my question... I would appreciate an answer to this. If I've missed it, I'm sorry. I just don't get the logic behind it. I really fail to see where you were going with it. Also I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to quote the QT from last game as I'm pretty sure we never gave it out. Read this spoiler please. + Show Spoiler + Also, I feel the need to quote this again... On December 06 2011 10:44 Incognito wrote: Enough with the SPAM. Stop posting one liners or there will be --- Posts like these: as well as the other one liners are unacceptable. Please consolidate your posting and keep this thread readable. Thanks! And this... On December 07 2011 12:17 wherebugsgo wrote: Hey all, please cut down on the one liner spam. Incog has asked at least twice already and I have received a PM from a player about the spam situation. This will be the last warning before more serious consequences begin to appear. as you guys are ignoring it, it seems. not ignored.. missed... my apologies I think that Palmar and V7 set up the entire situation so that V7 could shoot a townie early with an excuse. Palmar can just play the wtf happened and I didn't mean to get a townie shot card and then they are both cleared. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On December 05 2011 02:51 redFF wrote: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/qjYbzb3n9nb heres our qt if anyone is interested in the sheer derpage Now stop talking about past game QTs. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
once again.. people assuming scum based off accusations on themselves. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Someone already pointed out his style is very mich the same as the last game. He's not contributing at all, if someone calls him out he gets in here, does one bigger post and keeps lurkering / onlines until the next guy calls him out. The very same thing happened last game. Look at his filter last game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=117613 and start on page 2 (his mayor-campaign-post), everything before that was before the game started. Called out by ss: klick me Erandorr steps in the thread, does one normal post, proceeds to lurk. I made a case on him as well: Klick me Same as above as frankly, both happened abot the same time, so yeah erandorr get in the thread and starts doing some real posts. That's page 63. From page 64 again he's back to one-liners only. Massive vote-rigging:: Klick me! Erandorr joins the discussion to get one bigger post to get some town-cred and proceeds to lurk / do one-liners. I mean there where people claiming mafia, no need to not bus them for town-cred. That's how he played mafia last game. Now let's look at what erandorr is doing this game, shall we? That's his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=117613 He did some posts on day1 tha are no one-lines, those howeve are just fluff without content, telling rad to take a stand without actually doing something on his own. EVERYTHING ELSE is a one-liner. Next thing that's going to happen: Erandorr will come here, make a big post to look town again, telling you that something is wrong and some way more obvious target should be lynched first and will proceed lurking / doing one-liners afterwards. We can't let that happen again. He completly ignored those people who called him out last game, did one post that made him look okayish and went lurking again. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
Why? (this isn't meant to be rude I would actually like to know why previous game QT's should not be used) | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:38 Radfield wrote: Sandro 10 times out of 10. I think Palmar is town, I think Sandro is somewhat scummy right now. However, on rereading his filter he looks better than I had thought. A few thoughts: * His early game felt forced * He was one of the people who tried to make both Palmar and vaderseven look scummy after the dayvig exchange Other than that it's simply that he hasn't contributed much. What can you tell me about your read of annul's last scum game? Was it similar to this game or XLVII? You state annul was very similar to a previous game where he was town, does that still hold? If he hadn't claimed a hit today would you still think him very scummy and worth a lynch? Hey Radfield, could you explain that rather weird stance on annul you seem to have? Look at the quotes I took from your posts. You said that there are other reasons why annul could be scum, that you had your own reasons to doubt his townieness and then you come out and tell us you still lean town towards him. Why did you never specify what concerns you seem to have with annul and where did that apparant change of mind come from. It is a big step from "not the best lynch" to "leaning town" without a real explanation | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 06:16 Erandorr wrote: Hey Radfield : What the fuck? Not sure what you're getting at... All four of those statement jive. Annul has done several things this game to make me give him scum points, however on the whole he falls just on the town side of null. Had he not done any of those things I would have a very solid town read on him. All those quotes show is that I am willing to give my reads and work them out in thread. There ARE things annul has done that you could show as scummy, however no one willing to lynch him has actually done that. If you TRULY believe annul is scum, then it should be easy to go through his posts and find more evidence, it's always easy to see it once you know for sure. However not one single person on the wagon has done that, not to mention I think there is a decent bit of scum on the wagon(yourself included) | ||
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