EPTOn December 08 2011 03:59 Toadesstern wrote:
that's what I meant earlier... care to explain at least A BIT?
that's what I meant earlier... care to explain at least A BIT?
He didn't go fo Annul.. duuuh
TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 70
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
He didn't go fo Annul.. duuuh | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:55 Palmar wrote: Radfield! So it's you! I'm surprised, your day 1 play was actually quite solid. Alas no, I wish I could play that well as scum Day 1  I agree with you that annul was most likely shot by syllo, I don't see how that has much bearing on him being scum. There are other reasons he may be scum, but you're not offering any of them. If annul was NOT shot last night by syllo, would you still be wanting him lynched? Did you actually read the case on prplhz? I feel it's decently strong for an early Day 2 case. Read it again, where am I wrong? How did this game jive with prplhz's standard town play? | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
On December 08 2011 01:39 Mattchew wrote: I am slowly becoming more and more ok with lynching Palmar, and if he flips red following with the lynching V7. Red and Eran still waiting on the roles you claim to be blocked from doing... One of them could be mafia and had their KP blocked Can you explain the link with Palmar flipping red = we need to lynch vader? I fail to understand your logic here. I really don't like you asking people to claim. It's only d2. I don't think red is scum based on how I've seen him before. I don't know about Eran, but I'd like to hear a lot more from him. Right now, I'm unsure of who I'd like to lynch, but I'm going to tell you guys now. I won't be around for about... 2.5 hours before the lynch on Thursday as I have an exam 6 pm - 9 pm.  I like the case on prplhz but I'd like to see how prplhz feels about it. I'm starting to think Mattchew may be scum. He feels like he did last game to me. In regards to the Palmar/annul issue... I don't really see why scum wouldn't shoot at annul. How do we know for sure that he's been shot by syllo? I mean, it is probable, but not 100%. I also don't see why people think Palmar's role is more scum-like. I've had anonymous votes and been town. In fact, every game I've had extra votes in, I've been town. I'm honestly not sure I want to vote either of them at this point. And you. YOU. Cut it out with the one-liners. You're not helping anyone. That post means literally nothing. No wonder I'm getting a slight scumvibe off you. Erandorr, I have a few questions for you. On December 07 2011 14:44 Erandorr wrote: I was roleblocked, too. Can anyone explain how that fits with the block Red claimed? 1. Why would it have anything to do with red's block? There could be multiple RBs, as Drazerk's claimed role would lead me to believe. 2. Why did you think they'd be related in any way? On December 08 2011 00:26 Erandorr wrote: ##Vote: Annul ! I don't believe you ever explained this. 3. Why did you hop on Annul's bandwagon with NO explanation whatsoever? 4. Can you at least give us an explanation now? 5. Do you legitimately think annul is scum? 6. Why or why not? 7. Who, aside from annul, do you think is scum? I've read your filter and not found it enlightening. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 04:59 Radfield wrote: If annul was NOT shot last night by syllo, would you still be wanting him lynched? EBWOP: If annul was NOT shot last night(ie, did not claim a hit), would you still be wanting him lynched? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: OK, I think prplhz is scum. Before getting into specifics of this game, I want to talk a bit about prplhz's style and general posting habits. A town aligned prplhz is what I would call a highly aggressive player. He calls people out, calls people names, is not afraid of going after big names, and has a good sense of what tells are null. Yea I had a period where I just mindlessly tunneled veterans as town, DoctorHelvetica in LotR, Incognito in XLV. While DoctorHelvetica actually turned out to be scum, I don't think I played well in any of these games and I decided to stop doing it. In Mini Mafia X I went for wherebugsgo because I really thought he was scum, but that was not mindless tunneling, actually I thought he was scum because I thought everybody else was town, and then my favorite scum tell: people aren't playing as well as they should be. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: An example of Mini Mafia X(prplhz is Vanilla townie): Look at my first post in this game, I quote the manner rule. Just because I'm not swearing doesn't make me scum. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: He then proceeds to push hiro protagonist strongly, while at the same time pressuring several other players. He is confident, assertive and unafraid to get on someones bad side. He is also not afraid to call vets scum if he sees it. In LOTR you went after DocHelvetica on day 1, in MMX he pushed WBG without support for 3 solid days. He did not build a proper case in either instance, but simply pushed them as scum. Are you saying I'm not confident, assertive and unafraid of getting on someones bad side in this game? I've stated my opinion several times, I'm also on several people's bad side. I'm also not afraid to call veterans scum as you will see in the end of this post. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Now lets talk about prplhz's scum play, because I think it's actually pretty decent. However, I would characterize it as being safe, helpful, generally 1 big case, and a very different tone. I would grab some game quotes here, but I'm just not going to have the time today. You'll have to take my word for it. Check out PYPInteresting specifically though Is this your argument? I swear when I'm town and I don't swear when I'm scum? That doesn't hold. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: What makes prplhz scum this game: He is consistently jumping on people for small things and small tells, and NOT pressuring in the way I would expect. First his vote on Truthbringer. Now, truthbringer said some outrageously anti-town things, and really 'new player' things as well. However, prplhz's entire argument is weak and he should know it. Saying dumb things does NOT make someone scum, and oftentimes is more of a townie tell. I would typically expect prplhz to call him on it and let it pass. He does no such thing though, and argues several times that Truthbringer is actually scum. Yet, and this is a big yet, there is absolutely no conviction there. My argument wasn't that TruthBringer was playing bad, it was that he was playing worse than he is supposed to play. TruthBringer had played in several games before and he should know that, though I gave him some chance to redeem himself because he might have played so long ago that people relied on blues. Saying "no-lynch and no discussion today" and then playing the newbie card to get out of it is blatantly anti-town and can only be done by first-gamers on this forum in my opinion. TruthBringer's scum reminds me of my own scum, I can't stop pushing scum agenda and I rely on total self delusion that I am actually townie to get out of it. That's what I see in TruthBringer's play and that's why I still think that he's scum. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: ^Kinda indicates Truth is scum, but waffles a bit ^Indicates Truth is probably scum, ie "what motivation could there be for a townie...." ^Seems to indicate Truth is definitely scum Yet after all that he finishes pretty soft(quote below) and his tone indicates(at least to me) that he doesn't actually think Truth is scum. I don't waffle and I think he's scum, I've said repeatedly ever since my first case on TruthBringer that I think he's a good lynch and that I think he is scum. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Later on, he posts basically his last comment to truthbringer, and last mention of him at all outside of "I still think truthbringer is scummy" And I still think he's scummy, but people weren't convinced, so I moved on to other targets. In Mini Mafia X I tunneled wherebugsgo for 3 days in a row because I knew he was scum and because and because he was the only scum left. I don't know that any of these guys are scum and there's plenty of other useful stuff I can do in the thread. I pressured lurkers, I tried to prevent excessive tunneling, I prodded here and there, I found other people I find suspicious. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: ^Again, this is not the tone that prplhz takes with people he thinks are scum. He pushes them aggressively, not softballing them questions. Questions which Truth never answers and prplhz never follows up on. Again, you are basing your case on the fact that I am following the manner rule stated in the OP and quote by me in my first post in this thread. Sometimes it's fun to be an asshole, but your entire case is "the guy is not saying 'fuck' enough". TruthBringer actually answered these questions and well enough but too late to sway my opinion on him. I didn't follow up because the thread had moved on and nobody seemed to like my TruthBringer case, and his answers didn't sway my opinion anyway because they were way too late. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Since then prplhz has completely let truth off the hook. I said just a couple hours ago that I still like him for lynch today. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Next: vaderseven Votes vaderseven for being "stupid and extraordinarily rash". Extraordinarly rash? Really? My thinking is that if you actually thought vaderseven was mafia, you would absolutely NOT characterize his play as extraordinarily rash. You would characterize it as opportunistic or perhaps panicky, but not rash. Rash is very much a townie trait. They key word is "extraordinarily", the guy was faster on the trigger than I'd expected from a townie with his experience. "Opportunistic" also fits but I hadn't thought the situation fully through back then, I'll agree with it now though. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Notice also that prplhz accuses Palmar of forcing people to do stupid shit. If prplhz ACTUALLY thought vaderseven was scum because of this exchange, then he should be applauding Palmar for outting a scum, NOT chiding him. You absolutely cannot have it both ways. Either vader is scummy and it was a great play by Palmar to out him, or vader is town and is was stupid of Palmar to force the issue. Yea, maybe I should have applauded Palmar. He was playing a trolly and risky and I think I was still a bit pissed about that but in the end it worked out well but it might as well have turned out very bad. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: This shows a solidly scum mindset. Accuse vader of being scum for acting stupidly, accuse Palmar of bad play for forcing the issue. prplhz KNOWS that both are town, and lets neither of them off the hook. Prp mentions vader again Here, but I don't have much to say about it. I think he is deliberately refusing to see things from vaders point of view, and nitpicking the way the situation went down, instead of looking at it in whole form. And how is the whole form? The guy was threatened with a lynch like 24 hours before deadline, and then he shot somebody in the face as a reaction before any other townies than Palmar and supersoft had had anything to say about it. vaderseven was not in any immediate danger and he should have kept his head cold but he didn't. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: ^Doesn't seem to doubt vader's claim here, yet if prplhz really thinks vaderseven is scum, it means he thinks vader is absolutely lying about his Jack claim. Yet prplhz has never even mentioned the possibility. It seems to me that prplhz is sticking with vader for lack of a better target, and refusing to assimilate the additional info that indicates vader is town. Prplhz is simply sticking with the sentiment because it is thread accepted to do so. What extra information indicates that vaderseven is town? I kinda doubt vaderseven's claim here, the Jack claim would be very clutch of him but on the other hand it allows him to like, fake night hit survival and other stuff. I think it's actually a very good role for scum to claim "I have a role with unspecified powers" and then just adapt everything to the situation he's in. This is purely role speculation and I'm not very good at that I think so... On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Next: Hier vote Not once not twice but three times prplhz indicates that he thinks Hier could be town. However he couches that in three instances of reasons to vote him. Classic scum vote post. Plenty of outs, plenty of ass-covering, no willingness to straight-up accept the mislynch. I have no idea what your point is here really. I voted Hier to save Palmar and Hier could have been scum even though I didn't think he was. I don't blame anybody who voted for Hier, they did the right thing even though he turned out to be town. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Next: Mattchew case I find this an exceptionally weak case prplhz builds on Mattchew. It picks up every null tell and newbie town tell that Mattchew has made. Prplhz knows better than this. He even prefaces his entire argument with stating he sucks at making strong arguments: I'm pretty bad at writing cases rofl look at Mini Mafia X where I push a scum wherebugsgo for 3 days without getting him lynched. I don't think my case is weak, I just say I'm bad at writing them. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: He also makes a very similarly weak case(but long winded) on Foolishness in PYPI(when prplhz is red). I could talk more about this but I'm not going to. Rofl, Foolishness was actually shot on your orders for being scummy :D Maybe my case was bad, but both townie Radfield and townie Mig and townie syllogism thought he was on the scummy side too, and this was a PM game where you guys could discuss it all in private. I was scum in that game but it was multifactional scum game so I was also actually scum hunting. Just because I write bad cases doesn't mean that I'm scum (and it doesn't mean I'm not right either), and you distorting the facts here looks like a confession to me. Townie Radfield doesn't need to distort facts, he will eat you raw if you are scum, but I think that he feels that this case on me is pretty weak too and he has to make something up to make it stronger. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: Next: Annul vote Gonna cut things short here. Spends two or three posts defending annul and states several times he does not think he is scum. As the bandwagon builds he is suddenly swayed by Sandroba bunk post: Yea, I'm swayed by sandroba's post. I think sandroba is likely town and he is giving a glimpse of his new playstyle here (more caps bullying, less reason). Also, I asked Palmar about what I was uneasy about with the annul case and he answered me in a satisfying manner, I mostly just quoted sandroba for the lulz. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: I honestly thought he was joking at first, but it appears he was serious. Yes I was. I would like to see where this annul pressure will lead us, though I'm worried about the lacking case on him but I'll most likely vote on him until the end. On December 08 2011 03:35 Radfield wrote: At this point I'm fairly confident prplhz is scum. ##Vote prplhz At this point I'm fairly confident that Radfield is scum, he should know that I'm town by now and he shouldn't attack me like this. I really feel bad for you Radfield because you can't be wrong one single time as town or else people jump you  Also, sorry for textwall.tl;dr: I'm not scum, but Radfield most likely is. | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
lol flawless logic here folks | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:24 Zephirdd wrote: Palmar, you starded the black-and-white stuff. IF annul is lynched and flips green, can we jump on your ass and chop you out of the game no problem? Would you take that risk to lynch annul, are you that sure that he is scum? yes. barring a medic claim from a person I'm willing to believe, I am that certain. If annul flips green I'll take all the blame, if part of that is to be lynched I'll accept that. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:01 Lanaia wrote: Can you explain the link with Palmar flipping red = we need to lynch vader? I fail to understand your logic here. I really don't like you asking people to claim. It's only d2. I don't think red is scum based on how I've seen him before. I don't know about Eran, but I'd like to hear a lot more from him. Right now, I'm unsure of who I'd like to lynch, but I'm going to tell you guys now. I won't be around for about... 2.5 hours before the lynch on Thursday as I have an exam 6 pm - 9 pm. I like the case on prplhz but I'd like to see how prplhz feels about it. I'm starting to think Mattchew may be scum. He feels like he did last game to me. In regards to the Palmar/annul issue... I don't really see why scum wouldn't shoot at annul. How do we know for sure that he's been shot by syllo? I mean, it is probable, but not 100%. I also don't see why people think Palmar's role is more scum-like. I've had anonymous votes and been town. In fact, every game I've had extra votes in, I've been town. I'm honestly not sure I want to vote either of them at this point. And you. YOU. Cut it out with the one-liners. You're not helping anyone. That post means literally nothing. No wonder I'm getting a slight scumvibe off you. Erandorr, I have a few questions for you. 1. Why would it have anything to do with red's block? There could be multiple RBs, as Drazerk's claimed role would lead me to believe. 2. Why did you think they'd be related in any way? I don't believe you ever explained this. 3. Why did you hop on Annul's bandwagon with NO explanation whatsoever? 4. Can you at least give us an explanation now? 5. Do you legitimately think annul is scum? 6. Why or why not? 7. Who, aside from annul, do you think is scum? I've read your filter and not found it enlightening. 1. 2 blocks in 1 night -> fairly unusual 2. see above 3. Palmar told me to do it 4. Because Palmar told me to do that. 5.Yes 6. I am convinced that Syllo shot him, so the two possibilites are that 1) a town medic is so incredibly dumb that he would rather save annul then syllo or 2) scum has some form of medic and saved annul. Annul looks really bad after the hit, has played like scummy shit, syllo is one of the best town players on TL and thought he was worth shooting. 7. Radfield and let me get back to you on the rest. need to read a ton of posts. Anything else? | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:25 sandroba wrote: If you are medic and protected annul please claim right now so we can lynch both of you. Have a good day. dont do this | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:27 Palmar wrote: yes. barring a medic claim from a person I'm willing to believe, I am that certain. If annul flips green I'll take all the blame, if part of that is to be lynched I'll accept that. just like you were willing to be lynched when ace flipped town? the lynch me if he flips town argument is so dumb. | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
considering we both were gonna die if not for the medic id imagine the medic made just as great a decision apparently saving someone from death is "incredibly dumb" good to know tell me... "Annul looks really bad after the hit, has played like scummy shit" what do YOU think i did that makes me red? not "i got shot and claimed it OMG RED GET HIM" and not "syllo thinks so" and not "palmar says so" what do YOU think? | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:30 annul wrote: "1) a town medic is so incredibly dumb that he would rather save annul then syllo" considering we both were gonna die if not for the medic id imagine the medic made just as great a decision apparently saving someone from death is "incredibly dumb" good to know tell me... "Annul looks really bad after the hit, has played like scummy shit" what do YOU think i did that makes me red? not "i got shot and claimed it OMG RED GET HIM" and not "syllo thinks so" and not "palmar says so" what do YOU think? Give me one good reason why any town Medic would rather protect you than syllo. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:37 Mattchew wrote: I am keeping my ##vote redFF because I have yet to see a case against someone I truly believe in. If someone can start a movement towards erandorr with a little more of a case then I can be swayed that way. If you are so convinced, why don't you make that case? | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
A newer player could have protected annul over syllo for lack of knowing. Erandorr, one more thing... Why are you so blatantly following Palmar? In your answers, I saw very little thought that was your own. @Mattchew If you're looking for a case, why don't you make one on Eran? | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:41 Erandorr wrote: Give me one good reason why any town Medic would rather protect you than syllo. Anyone not familiar with syllo's prior play would NOT protect him at night. Town medics protect players they shouldn't all the time. Sandro and Palmar, your entire case is based on the fact that you don't think a town medic would protect annul. That's garbage. You both know that townies do dumb things with their power roles, not to mention protecting annul was not even that dumb. As I mentioned before the flip, annul had a decent chance of getting shot last night. Annul was just barely on the town side of null for me at the end of N1, and he is still there now. | ||
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