TL Mafia XLVII - Page 168

On November 30 2011 05:51 annul wrote:
i am positive that if its 1 minute to end of day 2 and your vote on risen would mean he dies and you dont, that you will be voting him 100% of the time. ;\

On November 30 2011 05:43 xtfftc wrote:
Can anyone link me to any cases posted on prplz?

On November 24 2011 15:40 redFF wrote:
/confirm

vote me for mayor

winning record as town (some games) couple mafia ptp1 (that's just 2 examples)

plus i suck at scum, example- batman lynched day 1 as mafia



don't vote sinani he's infamous around here for being awful.

On November 25 2011 02:39 redFF wrote:
sorry everyone, i was asleep for 10 pages.

I'm still running for mayor.

some things
no one lie please, its always bad for town, even if you think you're doing some super gambit which will win us the game, 99.9% of the time it won't. Also palmar knows about not lying because he claimed assassin one game as vig

For the lynch, it should definitely one of the mayoral candidates to be lynched. In an elections game scum are pretty much guaranteed to run for mayor and I wouldn't be surprised if there was 2/3/4 of them running.

out of everyone that campaigned for mayor, we have a view viable candidates imo
BC
Palmar
Kita
Sandroba
myself
decon


these are people with experience who know how to play the game

I've got a question for them-who would you lynch right now?

because i think i found scum
supersoft hit the nail on the head right there. more things
that just seems like a lie with absolutely no backing to appeal to newbies with no idea what they're doing to vote him.
it's really weird that he wrote a whole paragraph on sinani...

so yeah i would lynch prplz right now


this is just wrong, mayor is under a lot more scrutiny and is more likely to be lynched.


I won't be very active today because its thanksgiving, hopefully i'll be back later tonight to answer questions/play some more.

On November 25 2011 16:47 redFF wrote:
all these people not posting in thread are pissing me off

NON-POSTERS VOTE-LIST
this is a list of all the people with no/very few posts since game start who have voted, and who they're voting for

Palmar
rogerx
Cwave (he has one post)
ohn (one post)
daymore (one good post)i expect to hear back from you on your review of the thread and which candidates you like/dont like.

Sandroba
the1stnewbie (one post), btw if you dont provide the research you promised, i will call you out.
deadlypsycho (two posts)says nothing about why he voted
layabout(posts here) a few posts, but says absolutely nothing about sandroba in them...
soap (no posts)
blindrawr (one post) of special interest is this post. he cant wait but now is barely even playing? blind rawr scumread atm.

redFF
risen (one post)

jaybrundage(guy isnt even running)
hyshes (one post) wtf??

Greymist
spartan n30 - cool name.........
mattchew- no posts
cosine- no posts

BC
t3tsubo - no posts



all these people need to get in the thread and explain themselves, there are gonna be at least 2/3 newbie scum on the list above, probably more. IF YOU'RE TOWN AND ON THIS LIST, COME AND POST IN THE THREAD AND PLAY THE GAME. the amount of people voting for sandroba/greymist/palmar with no content is worrying.

http://www.mediafire.com/?l6t68yibu3li068
thats a link to an html file of the first 50 pages, it will help you control f people for their filter among other things.

The issue i see is im worried about framers/gfs fucking with everyone's sanities. I still think todays lynch should be someone who ran for mayor, because of those people we will have 2/3 scum. The amount of non-posters on sandroba's mayoral campaign is weird, but i also think his opposition to the dt plan is valid.

we need analysis. we've got what, 2 coherent cases so far? sandroba you say you think bc is scum. tell us why.

my guess with pms is that they were split maybe first 20, second 20, third 20, fourth 20. if not, and they were split by alignments, scum probably have fakeclaims for pms, gm isn't that dumb to have his game breakable by role pms.

On November 26 2011 08:03 redFF wrote:
sinani is an incredibly easy mislynch to pull off.

sinani started the game trying to be helpful, he wanted to take charge. Sadly, everyone yelled at him and called him dumb and told him to stfu, so he started to act frustrated and troll and got a "fuck this game" attitude. He just looks like annoyed town to me.

I still think prplz is scum and don't like how he disappeared.

On November 30 2011 05:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lemonwalrus is also in this game, sandro.

I think he's scum as well, since he hasn't done anything. Literally, done nothing.

On November 28 2011 14:20 tnkted wrote:
Well, that went much better than i was worried about. We still have our mayor, our bodyguards, and our double lynch, and we didn't lose too many important blue roles.

Ace, I'll have your decon analysis tomorrow, as well as a wherebugsgo analysis. That second one might take awhile, hes got like a fourth of the posts in this thread Q_Q

Anyway bedtime I have class in eight hours

On November 30 2011 05:47 wherebugsgo wrote:


I'm not making up shit.

Here you go again, asserting things without evidence.

I realize you don't like my style of play, that you think I'm dumb, that I make wrong calls all the time, whatever.

If you're town and you want town to win then you'll realize that your vote on supersoft is an utter waste and basically an abstention. You have no clout in town right now and it's almost entirely due to your ridiculous stubbornness.

On November 30 2011 06:00 Erandorr wrote:
Hello!

WHERE ART THOU?

On November 26 2011 21:08 vaderseven wrote:
You choose good ones for me to read at least. They weren't lurkers or people that leave me asking am I sure the mod said no jesters.

prplhz-

I find his campaign scummy more so not. I would say if 50% was undecided and 0% was scum I have him at around a 45-47.5% right now. He is extremely interested in directing the game. This is alarming to me this early on because one usually is not wanting to take that level of direction and order giving unless they have information. At this point in the game, the only ones with 0 information are the town players.

Things like:

[quote=prplhz]As mayor I will encourage everybody to stick to these guidelines. They are all good for town. I will also enforce the following policies

On November 26 2011 19:22 sandroba wrote:
@vaderseven so you rather throw away your vote and make yourself irrelevant. How exactly does that increases your chance of electing a town mayor if you are town?

On November 27 2011 01:26 vaderseven wrote:


Ok which game? Depending on the game and who I pushed for I could offer you pages of unspoken information that back what I was doing. You see, on that forum I have literally played with at least 90% of the players in a given game many times before. The amount of metagame that gets built up in a smaller community like that is beyond huge.

As it is right now I personally would vote to lynch Palmer based on what I have read but since I can't vote to lynch I am instead required to vote for someone to be mayor and to choose the lynch... I do not see a correct logical move in front of me that is beyond don't let the mod kill rules apply to you because of your lack of logical grasp.



There is absolutely nothing in mafia called a terrible contribution just because it has been said before. I was not here (holidays) till last night. I started on page 73 and read the filtered posts of the vote leaders. I then posted and someone asked me to talk about 3 specific people so I gave all my thoughts on them. I think you don't like what I had to say because it was partially about you and you are therefor doing a classic defense of, "You said what about me???? You are bad at mafia and the only thing that post does is make you scummy!"

The reason I included those numbers was to express how unsure I am. With that out of the way I mass dumped my notes on the players I was requested to look into. If I had a history with the players I was talking about that post would look totally different but as it is that is what I can gather when looking at these 3 specific players that I have never played with in an 80 person game on day 1.

To be clear, I would TOTALLY vote Palmer right now if my vote was to lynch him. A 2-5% feeling that a player is more likely to be scum than the rest is actually a huge amount of certainty on a day 1. I thought and assumed that was beyond basic info.

On November 27 2011 10:12 vaderseven wrote:


I was JUST about to make a very similar post. I agree with this.

On November 27 2011 10:15 vaderseven wrote:



Wow finally another player that searches for the people that have hidden information. This is how you scum hunt. I, again, agree with your conclusions.

Would like to see this guy flip.

On November 28 2011 03:32 vaderseven wrote:
It would be a trade off cept roles get used every night. Once our power roles follow peoples directions even once then we have set an easy way for the mafia to predict things from then on.

Saying that having a list is easier for a new player is just scummy as hell. New players, if you don't know who to use your power on, find a Random Number Gen online and use it to pick from the player list.

That advice has the same chance of finding scum and it has 0% chance to be abused by the mafia.

The only way to get a better chance of finding scum while still have 0% chance to be abused by the mafia is for the power roles to ACT ON INFORMATION OR HUNCHES THAT THEY COME UP WITH.

You guys that are saying hey check THIS GUY or THAT GUY are suggesting the method that has the highest rate of being abused by the mafia.

On November 28 2011 04:43 vaderseven wrote:


The only 'decisions' to be made during the night are power role and mafia kills. During the day there is the lynch. Nothing about the town's purposes are furthered by having good posts during the night instead of day minus the case of a player being silenced by a night kill that has something important to say.

At least this talk we are having is productive, it doen't really help anyone choose targets (mafia or power roles) and helps to futher the town's chances because we are talking abstract strats. That is good night posting.

Bad night posting is a list of people for power roles to focus or a large mega post looking in depth at one player. Save those megaposts for when discussion leads to a lynch instead of night actions. The only reason to post huge things at night is if you for some reason won't do so during the day.

On November 28 2011 06:36 vaderseven wrote:
Every doctor, cop, roleblocker, and nightkiller should target me.

On November 30 2011 00:14 vaderseven wrote:
Well my life has decided to spit at me as I had no web at home last night. I hate quest. Anyways, I am VERY GLAD that Ace was mod killed. I PM'd the mods and had made it clear that I would probably quit if he wasn't MK'd for the same reasons that I would quit any online team game where one of my allies siad near the start, "Hey its ok I can see where they are with my maphack." The particular rule that Ace broke is actually one of the most game breaking in some ways. For instance, in my notes after I read that I just typed, "Confirmed Cheater and Confirmed Town." I have never once in years of playing mafia seen someone pull that stunt and not be truthful. The only other type of cheating tactic that I have seen be as effective at breaking the game is posting your role after encrypting it via an online cypher and then revealing the key later (btw if anyone does this they have no honor, its not in the rules of this game but it is in the unspoken rules of internet mafia not to do this). I am here to play some mafia. I am not here to sit through a nice ez mode game.

Now I brought my notes to work and got here an hour early. Here is my thoughts on some key issues thus far:

Palmer-I didn't know you got 3 votes per day till just now. That is huge. That is more important than your double lynches in some ways because it can really give the town an end game advantage. If you die and you are town then the mafia has gotten such a large boost. I don't agree with all of your points thus far but learning that you have 3 votes per day was enough for me to not vote you today... but we need to do something about you soon. If you are scum then you will gain a huge amount of control once the double lynches are used up.

I read your campaign as a power grab for reasons of personal desire. I can't really say that is a scum or town tell. Alot of people are saying it is a scum tell. Alot of people are mad about your choice of day 1 lynch... The only things we really discussed day 1 was who to elect and then right towards the end of things there was a brief discussion about who to have killed. I usually give people a pass on their day 1 votes until such time as some kind of pattern is found (day 1 votes are never enough by themselves in other words) because it is the vote that is based off the smallest amount of information in the game. You choosing YT feels no different to me. I might be biased because I thought YT wasn't even a bad choice but even if you had chosen someone I felt was pretty townie I wouldn't find that to be very conclusive. I do appreciate that you did choose someone and try to justify it. The easy way out for a mafia player in that situation would be to hold some kind of last minute vote (Hey guys post who you want me to kill in thread, we have 45 minutes left Ill choose whoever you say) or to do something like RNG it. What you did was a real move that we get to look at and question. I much prefer that especially given the power of your office.

I really think it is overall a bad move to lynch Palmer at this point. 3 Votes in the end game and double lynches in the early game is just WAY to much power to give up. It might even be game breaking, whichever side you are on Palmer might be given the win. Assuming that either side CAN win the election, the setup should be balanced WIHTOUT a mayor. That means the mayor's power is outside of balance and as I have already said it is a VERY powerful role.

Zeks-I haven't really played with clues before. It feels like to solid of logic to ignore right now, especially given the early game nature of the game right now and thus lack of good info. I want to see your flip in order to better understand if we are using the clues correctly or overly trusting in them. The fact that I don't really see your posts as helpful or insightful as of yet helps me to feel safe in this. I hate that I am voting based on ANYTHING besides scum hunting but ya.

Could you possibly go ahead and claim/post some more? I would love to see your thoughts on as many players as possible and if ARE town and a power role I would like to know. I don't see you living past today, if it turns out to look like you WILL live then go ahead and hold off. I would just like your thoughts/claim before you flip so that I can look at the info you put out in light of said flip.

Heir-

I did not like you day 1 and I still don't really like your play today. I feel like one of the clue's points to you very strongly (Blind in your profile and Blindfold clue). If Zeks flips scum I will be really interested in looking at your posts under a microscope. As it is, I feel stronger about you flipping scum than I do Zeks when i look at you two without the clues in mind. I feel like your tone day 1 was one of that of one that knew way more about who is what alignment than I did and that just bothers the fuck out of my mind. You are getting my vote and I would HIGHLY encourage alot of these lurk then post style players to consider switching from Palmer to you.

Kurumi-

Saying that annul is confirmed town was dumb as hell. I will be looking at you closer from now on. That post where you said that screamed to me SCUM GAMBIT TO THROUGH TOWN OFF. The only saving grace for you (and it really is a good saving grace as I have learned over the years) is that I can see you just being dumb. Dumb things get posted by bad town players. I personally find you more dumb than scummy for now but I you are getting looked at again for sure.

##vote: Zeks
##vote: Heir

That is the longest post I have ever done via a phone wow.

On November 30 2011 02:09 vaderseven wrote:
Can we get vote count? Risen and Palmer are super close...

I will and can change my vote on heir to risen simply to keep Palmer alive if it comes to that.

On November 30 2011 03:38 vaderseven wrote:


That's a hugely scummy reason to vote for the player who if town can help us more than anyone. I find you way more scummy after that post than anything else of yours that I read.

Erandorr goes completely back on what he pushed in his campaign post by completely endorsing someone else that he finds to be good and active. I know he says he is pro town but if you read the sentence, " He kept activity high, engaged the new players in the conversation and discussed basically every topic that got brought up," you can sense that he got a warm glowly feeling by seeing a player he respects as 'good at mafia' being active and informative. I would conclude that Erandorr knows very little about who is who and is almost re-leaved to see an active good player to follow. I don't see this as trully strong or weak town play just kinda noisy that doesn't accomplish much except through out an endorsement to an established player that is showing interest in the game. Nothing about those motivations really fit with a scummy mind set and I cant see or conclude that Erandorr is thinking any differently. He puts in some additional scum hunting after this that I can't really get a read on because it is a bit hard to keep all the players in my head in a organized web at this moment.

Youngminii-

lol this guy is mad about losing to a specific player in the past. Classic case of it. If that isn't the case then god damn it really looks like it and wtf are you sure he isn't mad. He is either bad town or is a semi new scum and Palmer is on his scum team and this is the most epic fail of a bus I have ever seen. I don't have a formed opinion on this guy yet but he is now *'ed in my notes because I need to pay attention to his play to see wtf is going on.

That is all of course without really having taken ANY time to re read past games and I can tell these 3 have played here before. I will honestly avoid doing that level of thinking (the player style metagame thinking) until the game has shrunk a bit.

If any wants to metagame me go ahead and check out my more recent games at http://forum.solidstatesquad.com/index.php?s=527f9d44f5a52f2e8a60befc4e1af5b5&showforum=27





I do not see a likely candidate that I feel is a truly pro town choice at this game state so my mind is basically blank as to how to elect something. Until a more creative / higher chance to help town solution arises to my game theory image of this moment I can only go on and vote for what I know.

I don't see this as irrelevant as much as a game design choice that doesn't have a favorable approach to as town side so I am just fulfilling the requirements to vote so as to not get myself mod killed. I assure you, I value my vote very much and am placing it where I feel is truly best in an abstract and logical sense.

Good night thread.

On November 27 2011 01:26 vaderseven wrote:


Ok which game? Depending on the game and who I pushed for I could offer you pages of unspoken information that back what I was doing. You see, on that forum I have literally played with at least 90% of the players in a given game many times before. The amount of metagame that gets built up in a smaller community like that is beyond huge.

As it is right now I personally would vote to lynch Palmer based on what I have read but since I can't vote to lynch I am instead required to vote for someone to be mayor and to choose the lynch... I do not see a correct logical move in front of me that is beyond don't let the mod kill rules apply to you because of your lack of logical grasp.



There is absolutely nothing in mafia called a terrible contribution just because it has been said before. I was not here (holidays) till last night. I started on page 73 and read the filtered posts of the vote leaders. I then posted and someone asked me to talk about 3 specific people so I gave all my thoughts on them. I think you don't like what I had to say because it was partially about you and you are therefor doing a classic defense of, "You said what about me???? You are bad at mafia and the only thing that post does is make you scummy!"

The reason I included those numbers was to express how unsure I am. With that out of the way I mass dumped my notes on the players I was requested to look into. If I had a history with the players I was talking about that post would look totally different but as it is that is what I can gather when looking at these 3 specific players that I have never played with in an 80 person game on day 1.

To be clear, I would TOTALLY vote Palmer right now if my vote was to lynch him. A 2-5% feeling that a player is more likely to be scum than the rest is actually a huge amount of certainty on a day 1. I thought and assumed that was beyond basic info.

On November 27 2011 10:12 vaderseven wrote:


I was JUST about to make a very similar post. I agree with this.

On November 27 2011 10:15 vaderseven wrote:



Wow finally another player that searches for the people that have hidden information. This is how you scum hunt. I, again, agree with your conclusions.

Would like to see this guy flip.

On November 28 2011 03:32 vaderseven wrote:
It would be a trade off cept roles get used every night. Once our power roles follow peoples directions even once then we have set an easy way for the mafia to predict things from then on.

Saying that having a list is easier for a new player is just scummy as hell. New players, if you don't know who to use your power on, find a Random Number Gen online and use it to pick from the player list.

That advice has the same chance of finding scum and it has 0% chance to be abused by the mafia.

The only way to get a better chance of finding scum while still have 0% chance to be abused by the mafia is for the power roles to ACT ON INFORMATION OR HUNCHES THAT THEY COME UP WITH.

You guys that are saying hey check THIS GUY or THAT GUY are suggesting the method that has the highest rate of being abused by the mafia.

On November 28 2011 04:43 vaderseven wrote:


The only 'decisions' to be made during the night are power role and mafia kills. During the day there is the lynch. Nothing about the town's purposes are furthered by having good posts during the night instead of day minus the case of a player being silenced by a night kill that has something important to say.

At least this talk we are having is productive, it doen't really help anyone choose targets (mafia or power roles) and helps to futher the town's chances because we are talking abstract strats. That is good night posting.

Bad night posting is a list of people for power roles to focus or a large mega post looking in depth at one player. Save those megaposts for when discussion leads to a lynch instead of night actions. The only reason to post huge things at night is if you for some reason won't do so during the day.

On November 28 2011 06:36 vaderseven wrote:
Every doctor, cop, roleblocker, and nightkiller should target me.

On November 30 2011 00:14 vaderseven wrote:
Well my life has decided to spit at me as I had no web at home last night. I hate quest. Anyways, I am VERY GLAD that Ace was mod killed. I PM'd the mods and had made it clear that I would probably quit if he wasn't MK'd for the same reasons that I would quit any online team game where one of my allies siad near the start, "Hey its ok I can see where they are with my maphack." The particular rule that Ace broke is actually one of the most game breaking in some ways. For instance, in my notes after I read that I just typed, "Confirmed Cheater and Confirmed Town." I have never once in years of playing mafia seen someone pull that stunt and not be truthful. The only other type of cheating tactic that I have seen be as effective at breaking the game is posting your role after encrypting it via an online cypher and then revealing the key later (btw if anyone does this they have no honor, its not in the rules of this game but it is in the unspoken rules of internet mafia not to do this). I am here to play some mafia. I am not here to sit through a nice ez mode game.

Now I brought my notes to work and got here an hour early. Here is my thoughts on some key issues thus far:

Palmer-I didn't know you got 3 votes per day till just now. That is huge. That is more important than your double lynches in some ways because it can really give the town an end game advantage. If you die and you are town then the mafia has gotten such a large boost. I don't agree with all of your points thus far but learning that you have 3 votes per day was enough for me to not vote you today... but we need to do something about you soon. If you are scum then you will gain a huge amount of control once the double lynches are used up.

I read your campaign as a power grab for reasons of personal desire. I can't really say that is a scum or town tell. Alot of people are saying it is a scum tell. Alot of people are mad about your choice of day 1 lynch... The only things we really discussed day 1 was who to elect and then right towards the end of things there was a brief discussion about who to have killed. I usually give people a pass on their day 1 votes until such time as some kind of pattern is found (day 1 votes are never enough by themselves in other words) because it is the vote that is based off the smallest amount of information in the game. You choosing YT feels no different to me. I might be biased because I thought YT wasn't even a bad choice but even if you had chosen someone I felt was pretty townie I wouldn't find that to be very conclusive. I do appreciate that you did choose someone and try to justify it. The easy way out for a mafia player in that situation would be to hold some kind of last minute vote (Hey guys post who you want me to kill in thread, we have 45 minutes left Ill choose whoever you say) or to do something like RNG it. What you did was a real move that we get to look at and question. I much prefer that especially given the power of your office.

I really think it is overall a bad move to lynch Palmer at this point. 3 Votes in the end game and double lynches in the early game is just WAY to much power to give up. It might even be game breaking, whichever side you are on Palmer might be given the win. Assuming that either side CAN win the election, the setup should be balanced WIHTOUT a mayor. That means the mayor's power is outside of balance and as I have already said it is a VERY powerful role.

Zeks-I haven't really played with clues before. It feels like to solid of logic to ignore right now, especially given the early game nature of the game right now and thus lack of good info. I want to see your flip in order to better understand if we are using the clues correctly or overly trusting in them. The fact that I don't really see your posts as helpful or insightful as of yet helps me to feel safe in this. I hate that I am voting based on ANYTHING besides scum hunting but ya.

Could you possibly go ahead and claim/post some more? I would love to see your thoughts on as many players as possible and if ARE town and a power role I would like to know. I don't see you living past today, if it turns out to look like you WILL live then go ahead and hold off. I would just like your thoughts/claim before you flip so that I can look at the info you put out in light of said flip.

Heir-

I did not like you day 1 and I still don't really like your play today. I feel like one of the clue's points to you very strongly (Blind in your profile and Blindfold clue). If Zeks flips scum I will be really interested in looking at your posts under a microscope. As it is, I feel stronger about you flipping scum than I do Zeks when i look at you two without the clues in mind. I feel like your tone day 1 was one of that of one that knew way more about who is what alignment than I did and that just bothers the fuck out of my mind. You are getting my vote and I would HIGHLY encourage alot of these lurk then post style players to consider switching from Palmer to you.

Kurumi-

Saying that annul is confirmed town was dumb as hell. I will be looking at you closer from now on. That post where you said that screamed to me SCUM GAMBIT TO THROUGH TOWN OFF. The only saving grace for you (and it really is a good saving grace as I have learned over the years) is that I can see you just being dumb. Dumb things get posted by bad town players. I personally find you more dumb than scummy for now but I you are getting looked at again for sure.

##vote: Zeks
##vote: Heir

That is the longest post I have ever done via a phone wow.

On November 30 2011 02:09 vaderseven wrote:
Can we get vote count? Risen and Palmer are super close...

I will and can change my vote on heir to risen simply to keep Palmer alive if it comes to that.

On November 30 2011 03:38 vaderseven wrote:


That's a hugely scummy reason to vote for the player who if town can help us more than anyone. I find you way more scummy after that post than anything else of yours that I read.

On November 29 2011 19:47 StimilantE wrote:
Can't explain why I think you're mafia bugs, I just think you are, thats why I voted u.

On November 30 2011 06:11 Risen wrote:
And I have to run for now. This analysis shit takes way longer than I thought it would. I'll be back pretty shortly, though so hopefully I can get everything done in time for night 2.