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jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
November 19 2011 15:24 GMT
#361
And Sandroba what do you think of lynching Hiro?
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:37 GMT
#362
I think Hiro maybe the other Mafia we are looking for.
There are a couple of points worth noting.


He agrees with Palmar that he would like to vote WBG, but does not follow up. When I ask him about it he repeats "lets start this game off the right foot" and ignores my question. That is not very like a town player. He then proceeds to give us a generic game mechanic post. THat in itself is not bad, but combined with it being in the same post where he ignored my question, it did look kind of bad.

Now everything that he did in the early parts of the game are excusable and in now way make him scum.


But there are quite a few ties to Wiggles and some really bad behavior

On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:

1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.

2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.


3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...

4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.

5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.

6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.

7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^

8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.

9.Sandroba- nothing.

And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:

-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.

-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.

-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.

##Vote: Wherebugsgo


This was his only post with content, or somethign like that. Palmar gave me shit for a similar post ( correctly, although I did have other intentions behind it) but notice how little Hiro is actually saying ,.

First of he has nullreads on nearly everybody and his best target at that point is WBG, still for the same reasons he stated at the start. He does not even seem to think that WBG is playing particularly scummy, just very annoying and he does not want to deal with him.
Notice also that he soft defends Wiggles twice. He spins Wiggles first post in a pro-town manner and then defends him again when talking about MZ (I bolded those parts)
filter

+ Show Spoiler +
Ok, first off, Meapak:

This is his first game relevint post:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then.

Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose.

Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro.

Show nested quote +


This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.


Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this:

On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +

wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas."

Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.


His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this:

On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.

Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.


no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on.

now, on to wiggles:

so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length

+ Show Spoiler +


Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak:

Meapak_Ziphh:

Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.

Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this:

On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.

##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh


So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy?

So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles.

All the rest:

I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far.

Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch


Then there is the timing of his vote on Wiggles. It was clear that you and Palmar especially seemed to agree that Wiggles was the best lynch. Me Palmar and Prplzh voted Wiggles already and then he decides to show up again with a pretty strong turn and jumps on the Wiggles wagon. He adds some okay-ish arguments and then says that he is "Okay with lynching Wiggles." Is is also "okay" with lynching prplzh but never follows up with that.

It is also important to note that he turned on MZ and was considering that he may be town. Same goes for WBG

And then there is this post :

On November 17 2011 09:54 hiro protagonist wrote:
Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted.

Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles?


Notice that Hiro voted for wiggles and agreeing that he would make an okay lynch.
He never speaks against the lynch directly but still wants to get support for a turnaround away from either him or Wiggles.
That post sounds really , really bad to me.
He also claims that no one really seems to believe in the lynch, thus carefully stating again that he does not really like it and wants to get it away from wiggles. Yet we never hear a word against the lynch from him. If he was town, wouldn't he still push the targets he believes in? Instead he sort of agrees with the lynch on Wiggles but still does want to get the lynch away from the guy.
To me it sounds like a bus where Hiro still tried to get the lynch deflected to someone else.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:38 GMT
#363
Zzz look sandro, i found something. Also hiro is missing ^.^
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 15:39 GMT
#364
Well, as I already posted it kinda makes sense if hiro is scum, given wiggles' behaviour, but his own behaviour day1 lead me to think he is town. I would like to see his opinion on the lynch aswel.
Your logic (except for meapak, because he didn't go balls deep for hiro and we have no confirmation about his alignment) seems fine, but the thing that puzzles me is that if you went out of your way to make these conections beforehand you should have come to the conclusion I was town on your own. It feels like an after thought to me =/.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:41 GMT
#365
huh? ooh thats for Jay right?
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 15:45 GMT
#366
Hmm yeah that's some interesting stuff there. I'll take a look at the rest of his filter.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 15:45 GMT
#367
Yeah you posted while I was typing.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 15:56 GMT
#368
I will be back in like 4 hours so plenty of time before the lynch. Everyone else look at what I wrote and also the evidence on jay and tell us who you would like to lynch please.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 16:07 GMT
#369
The thing that bothers me about lynching hiro is that they were both on the chopping block yesterday and they made no real effort to get the lynch moved elsewhere. Like wiggles had no thread presence while the pressure was on hiro and it seemed like he might have ended up being lynched. Wiggles only really makes an appearance when he gets called out. Occam's razor says that one of the main lynch targets ytd ought to be town, but then again it has failed me before (merc mini mafia).
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 16:10 GMT
#370
We could also no lynch twice and still have 2 chances on hitting scum. That could be a good strategy if our blue(s) use their heads.
Erandorr
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
2283 Posts
November 19 2011 16:20 GMT
#371
What do you think about the way Wiggles talked about Hiro? (Also im afk for a couple of hours for real now ^.^ )
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 16:21 GMT
#372
Hmm actually no lynching might be a good option, as both cop and jailer (if you protect someone and still mafia gets their kill off means that player is inocent, so you need to protect a dif person each night to confirm as many as possible) can confirm players. With also the possibility of medic/jailer mafia can't exactly choose who to kill and they are behind, so that means they are going to have to shoot shady players if they want sure kills, which is a plus for town as it narrows down our suspects.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
November 19 2011 16:27 GMT
#373
@Erandorr

At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this.

This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere.

The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill.

I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo.

Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever.

I don't like the no lynch idea.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 16:45 GMT
#374
Why don't you like the no-lynch idea, give me reasons. You don't seem sure wbg is scum and the exact same logic you used to vote wbg could be used to vote mz or jay.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 16:59 GMT
#375
As the great artosis said, when you are ahead, get more ahead. There is only 1/6 chance that we have no roles capable of confirming players and even if we only have a medic, he can get a protect and confirm himself + another player. That means disaster for scum so if they risk shooting one of the players everybody else thinks is town they risk losing outright. The only way scum can actually come back is if we keep mislynching people. While we have 1-2 blues alive, prolonging the game only gives us more info. If we had a clear cut lynch today, great, but nobody seems to be on the same page and risking a mislynching on low odds seems like throwing away our lead.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
November 19 2011 17:17 GMT
#376
Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them.

jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real.

I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage.

I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days.

  • 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
  • 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
  • 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
  • 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
  • 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
  • 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.


I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.

This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 17:28 GMT
#377
On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:

If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?

I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.

Back to you guys.


Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.


This interaction with mr.wiggles seems very legit.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 17:31 GMT
#378
Also note this was on his first post, when no one else was really looking into mr.wiggles. He doesn't actually flat out calls wiggles scum but that does draw a lot of attention onto him.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
November 19 2011 17:37 GMT
#379
Scum can't really afford to hold of shooting we have 50% chance of having cop. They exchange a kill for 1/6 chance of getting lucky and "confirmed" by the medic. They also have to be in the "likely town" player pool in the first place, to this having any resemblance of chance of working out in their favor. Still the odds are stacked towards town.
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
November 19 2011 17:42 GMT
#380
On November 20 2011 02:28 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:

On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:

If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?

I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.

Back to you guys.


Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.


This interaction with mr.wiggles seems very legit.

This is actually a really good point.
And considering Erandors post about Hiro
Im going to change my vote to Hiro
##Unvote
##Vote hiro protagonist


I think no lynch would be viable if we were guaranteed to have a cop but we dont know : /

I would like to hear hiros point of view
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