Nah Meapak, I'm not scum.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Well the activity level is disapointing.
Alright I'm going to vote WBG and here's why. I'll address the white elephant in the room. WBG and I are the two people who wanted to lynch hiro over Wiggles. I know that jaybrundage didn't as well but I just don't see him as scum. Wiggles flipped scum which obviously casts tons of suspicion on WBG and I. I know I'm town, the reason I thought WBG was town as well was because he called out the same things I saw in hiro and was generally playing what I considered townie. In hindsight that's because WBG has had some very similar reads as myself so I just assumed he'd be town if he was seeing things I saw.
Okay, so right off the bat I can tell you probably don't know my scum play very well, since as scum I tend to push suspicions very hard. When situations like this occur, I jump all over them and waste no time in accusing the people with no thread presence. Also, as scum I'm not afraid of starting a fight. In that case why wouldn't I immediately turn on you, since the logical conclusion, as you state, is for the suspicion to fall on me and you?
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I reread WBG’s posts again and found that he soft defends Wiggles in much the same way I did, in particular this post: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
a.) Yeah I think he's a fine lynch. Like I said earlier, his first post was useless and I don't really agree with his case on Meapak. Erandorr too, but surprisingly some of Wiggles's points are valid, which gives me pause.
Let’s take a look at this post. WBG has now said twice that Wiggles is a good lynch. His reasons are that his first post was useless (generic) and that he doesn’t agree with his case on my. Now this comes up several times, WBG defends me. This felt strange to me at the time however, after thinking about it, it makes sense from a scum perspective. Day one I was the only person with an alternative lynch candidate to hiro, the more people I have subtly defending me the more credibility I gain and thus my lynch gains. At the end of this post WBG throws in the little tidbit that “surprisingly some of Wiggle’s points are valid which gives me pause.” This is a great way for a scum to again, subtly change the conversation. He’s again giving someone credit (Wiggles) while at the same time drawing another name into the conversation (Erandorr, who’s been mentioned before by Palmar so it’s possible that this lynch could take off).
How does it make sense from a scum perspective? I gain nothing from defending you. I defended you against a case I thought was dumb. It had no merit, that's all. Occam's Razor.
Lastly, if I was trying to give Wiggles credit and then trying to draw Erandorr into the lynch conversation, why is it that I have not pushed Erandorr to be lynched? I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Now here’s another post after Wiggles has achieved majority but before the end of the day: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:22 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 17 2011 10:08 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo
Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote. His points on Erandorr make sense. Unlike Palmar, he provided some decent reasoning as to why he suspects Erandorr. IIRC Palmar didn't really expound on why Erandorr is scummy, even when Erandorr asked him to. Also, Wiggles didn't really post anything of value after I said that. My vote switch wasn't necessary, and I didn't like how hiro came in with this: On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote:Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling  Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar  Ill be around till slightly before lynch Pray tell, what in this post actually says anything? Other than that I just think hiro is a better lynch than Wiggles. Wiggles isn't a bad lynch, and like Meapak I'm fine with him dying. It's just weird to me that no one is defending Wiggles at all. Unlike Palmar, I don't believe scum would just autobus in a 2 scum game, particularly day 1. I mean think about it, one dead is half the scumteam gone. On day 1 that's a huge loss, because in this setup that means you have to play the rest of the game by yourself and struggle to catch up. Last game I was in that position, basically, since my other half was sick (<3 Radfield) and Kurumi/RoL were really inactive. Wiggles has received no defense at all and that's incredibly strange. However, while I was typing this post jaybrundage posted this: On November 17 2011 10:10 jaybrundage wrote:
i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority
so
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles He chose to wait all day until it was ensured that Wiggles was dying, then posted this. He has had no influence on today at all. This vote is meaningless since Wiggles already achieved majority. First he takes time to ever so delicately defend Wiggles while at the same time justifying his vote for hiro. Then he once again calls out hiro and restates that hiro is a better lynch and sows more doubt about the Wiggles lynch. He also ends this post attacking jaybrundage. Now I agree that jay’s vote is absolutely terrible, however if WBG is scum he gains two things out of attacking that post. Not only does he look protown by calling out bullshit, he also sets himself up for day 2 when people are going to be milling around for a target. Jaybrundage is a SUPER easy lynch for that vote and his poor play on day one, WBG is setting the lynch up here.
Again, Occam's Razor. I was responding to prpl, that's why I clarified my stance on Wiggles and justified my vote for hiro. And yes, of course I would sow doubt about the wiggles lynch and reinstate that hiro was better, when I genuinely thought that. There is no scum agenda here, just my own thoughts.
Lastly, I attacked jaybrundage because no one else seemed to notice what he did. Despite him being a noob, if he said hiro/wiggles were fine lynches all day then why did he keep his vote on me till AFTER wiggles was hammered? He essentially abstained yesterday. Again, you're stretching to call me scum.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 11:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
nice.
with this flip I think we need to look at jay carefully tomorrow.
Hiro's probably still a good bet but I think jay looks worse now.
Everyone go back and read with this flip in mind! Boom more anti jay posting. This brings his earlier post back into mind. If he’s scum, he knows the flip and can start pressuring Jay before the flip essentially. With the flip he can now begin calling for jay’s death a lot more strongly. Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 03:01 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 17 2011 18:52 prplhz wrote:
I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum.
This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage.
jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT.
This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh.
I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr.
This leaves wherebugsgo.
I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum.
- He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr".
- He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum.
- He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post.
I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum. 1. Didn't hammer Wiggles cause I thought hiro was the better lynch. 2. Hiro/Jay are not easy targets, and I am actually not suggesting we pursue hiro. Did you not read my last post where I asked Meapak why he's ignoring the fact that hiro was one of the votes on Wiggles? 3. What? These are his response to prphlz’s points. Regarding his second point, hiro was the easy target day one, when he and I were arguing hiro slipped and slipped and slipped. Going after him is easy and gives you cheap town credit. Now on day two Jay is an easy target as well for his poor play and late vote on wiggles. If we assume that scum wouldn’t bus scum day one, then that really leaves WBG, jay, and I. Each of us has a very limited number of targets to choose from to advocate a lynch today. Undoubtedly though, jay is the easiest lynch for WBG to push. Now I understand that it's just as easy for WBG to make a similar case against me. Thus if the town decides to lynch me today I'd understand that and tbh I'd be fine with it as long as WBG is lynched tomorrow. tl;dr: WBG is scum. He pushed the easy target day one and soft defended Wiggles throughout, he set himself up to go after jay today, another easy target. He's actually the only player fully soft defend wiggles (the only thing I ever said was that hiro was a better lynch, I never said I actually agreed with some of Wiggle's points).
I disagree that jay is easy to lynch. Think about it.
Jay is new and almost no one thinks he's scum. Sandro is the only exception and sandro has not been around to really say anything; he has almost no thread presence. If jay were an easy target and I was scum, I would no doubt believe that other townies would suspect him.
I don't believe you are scum, Meapak, so in that case you should reconsider your vote and take a second look at jay.
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EPT
