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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia_new.png)
*Chaoser is co-hosting this game. Any questions can be directed at either him or me.
*If anyone would like to follow along in the observer QT, please PM me for the link
Mini Mafia X
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
No Smurfs.
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion may not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. This game follows Extended Majority Lynch Rules. Majority = #of players remaining in the game/2) (rounded down) + 1. Unlike in traditional majority lynch, the lynch is NOT decided the moment majority is reached. Instead, only the final vote count matters. If there is no majority at the deadline, the day ends with a no lynch. Non-voters will be modkilled for failure to vote.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may however vote for a no-lynch
Signups:
This game is open to anyone willing to be active. Signups will remain open until all 9 spots have been filled.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game will use replacements If I can get them. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list. Players are encouraged to find their own replacements! Don't create more work for the hosts. Do not post in the thread requesting a replacement. Doing this will result in a modkill. PM me, and we will try to work out a replacement.
Clues:
There are no clues.
PMs
PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 02:00 GMT (+00:00).
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Special thanks to Palmar since I stole lots of his Couples Therapy OP.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Setup
This is an open 2 of 4 setup. Seven roles are predetermined, and 2 of 4 possible roles are chosen at random to fill the last two setup slots. The seven predetermined roles are 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, and 5 Vanilla Townies. The last 2 roles are chosen out of the following 4 options(2 of 4): Sane Cop, Doctor, Jailkeeper, or a sixth Vanilla Townie. There is no chance of duplication in these last two roles.
Therefore, the setup will be randomly chosen among the following:
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Doctor.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 5 Vanilla Townies, Doctor, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Sane Cop.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Jailkeeper.
- 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 6 Vanilla Townies, Doctor.
A sample PM for all roles is provided below.
I will be rolling the dice to assign both teams and roles.
If people would prefer a parity cop again instead of a sane cop I'm happy to accommodate that. Otherwise I'd rather give this set-up a few more chances here on TL. Keep in mind that the Role Cop is being replaced with a Roleblocker.
Questions:
+ Show Spoiler +
Q: Does the doctor/jailor or the victim get notified if he saves someone?
A: No one gets notifed
Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked?
A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results.
Q: Can a Jailor roleblock a mafia hit?
A: Yes, the Mafia Goon is designated as the killer, if that guy gets jailed, he won't be able to perform the kill. If the Goon is dead, the Roleblocker will perform the kills.
Q: Can the Doctor/Jailor protect themselves?
A: Nope, sorry!
Q: What if the Jailkeeper and Roleblocker target each other?
A: Roleblocker will act first in this situation, and will prevent the Jailkeeper from using his action.
Q: If the Roleblocker is jailed, will the Roleblocker still be able to use his ability?
A: No, if the Roleblocker is jailed, he will not perform a night action
[i]Q: If a player is targeted by both the Jailkeeper and Sane Cop, will the Cop get a result back?
A: No, any actions performed on a player who has been jailed will not be completed.
Sample PMs:
+ Show Spoiler +Townie
You are a Townie! You have no special role, only your voice and your vote. Make them count!
Sane Cop
You are the Sane Cop! You have the ability to make night investigations. Once per night phase, you may perform a check on a player to find out their alignment.
Doctor
You are the Doctor! Every night you may select a player to protect from a night hit. You may not protect yourself. If you save a player from a hit, neither of you will be notified.
Jailkeeper
You are the Jailkeeper! Every night you may select a target, and that player will be both protected and roleblocked. Any actions they try to perform will be unsuccessful. Likewise, any actions performed on them will also be unsuccessful. Neither player will be informed if any actions were blocked.
Mafia Goon
You are the Mafia Goon! You are the man with the gun, and perform kills for your team. If you are killed, your teammate will retrieve your gun and perform the kills instead.
Your partner in crime is name. You may PM him/her as much as you like.
[b]Mafia Roleblocker[b]
You are the Mafia Roleblocker! Every night you may choose a target to be role blocked. If the person chosen to be role blocked has a night action, he or she may not use it for the night. You may roleblock the same person each night.
Your teammate is name. You may PM him/her as much as you like. Your teammate will perform the kills, but if he or she dies then you will perform the kills instead.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Player List
1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh
5.Erandorr
6.prplhz
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba
Replacement List
1. Deconduo
2. Sevryn
3.
1 of 2 MAFIA remaining:
3 of 7 TOWN remaining:
Mafia KP is always 1
+ Show Spoiler [ Dead Players] +
1.Palmar Killed Night 1
2.Mr Wiggles Lynched Day 1
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh
5.Erandorr Killed Night 2
6.prplhz
7.hiro protagonist Lynched Day 3
8.jaybrundage Lynched Day 2
9.Sandroba
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United States22154 Posts
I'd like to play in this, but I don't know if I have time...
EDIT: Also, i'm kind of interested to see how the roleblocker works out instead of the role cop, although I will continue with my insistence that cops without framers/millers are too strong. (It makes no difference if its a parity or a regular cop, it just sucks for scum because there is no way to argue your way out of a successful cop check, other than to claim that the cop is lying scum)
EDIT2: The FAQ talks about a parity cop, yet the setup says "sane cop". I assume its a regular cop, and not a parity cop, yes?
EDIT3: No smurfs makes me sad.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The FAQ talks about a parity cop, yet the setup says "sane cop". I assume its a regular cop, and not a parity cop, yes?
Yes, it's a regular Cop. Updated.
EDIT: Also, i'm kind of interested to see how the roleblocker works out instead of the role cop, although I will continue with my insistence that cops without framers/millers are too strong. (It makes no difference if its a parity or a regular cop, it just sucks for scum because there is no way to argue your way out of a successful cop check, other than to claim that the cop is lying scum)
You may be right that a miller is important. However I think with a roleblocker mafia should be able to handle the cop. Though a situation where the Cop finds the roleblocker first and lynches him presents a problem.
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/in
Because I love small setups like this.
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Can I join this game even though I'm signed up for Zona's TL Mafia 46?
If so then /in
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United States22154 Posts
Probably irrelevant, but I may as well ask, does the town cop return just alignment or role and alignment?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
@GM. Cop result only returns alignment
@prplhz. I would prefer if players were not playing in any other games at the same time. However, if we cannot get enough people in a timely fashion then I will allow players from Zona's game.
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Do you have an ETA on the start time? I should be able to play until about the beginning of December when finals start.
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Good luck, you guys! 
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United States22154 Posts
On November 12 2011 03:42 Hesmyrr wrote:/in Let's see if I can get over my procrastination, or just sink  Edit: Also broken format at sample role PM; bold tag isn't properly done for Mafia Roleblocker.
That is going to be vital when you have to fakeclaim roleblocker! :-P
Although looking at the current line up I'm extremely tempted to join...
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do it GM you know you wanna
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Do it GM, the sooner the better :p
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
You guys fell for his trap. He obviously wants you to beg.
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United States22154 Posts
On November 12 2011 04:27 kitaman27 wrote:
You guys fell for his trap. He obviously wants you to beg.
Curses, my diabolical scheme has been foiled!
Onto more direct solutions, I will rally the legions and go to war against Hot_Bid.
We march at dawn.
This is what you have wrought kita, all this bloodshed and turmoil could have been avoided, had you not unmasked me, but alas, you could not contain yourself. Now the forums will run red with bans!
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I personally want him to join because I love reading the plan posts he makes as well as the flavor of the analysis.
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/in assuming this doesn't start until after Monday.
Glad there's a mini, I can't play big so I was wasting away without my fix 
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Im still trying to decide if I want to play in this and steamship at the same time.
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On November 12 2011 04:45 GreYMisT wrote:
Im still trying to decide if I want to play in this and steamship at the same time.
It's only tempting because steamship is taking forever to start, once they both do you'll probably regret it.
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yea thats probally true, though playing in another Mini would certainly be fun.
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/in as a replacement
hopefully I should be fully recovered by the time I'm needed if I am needed
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hm i would like to play this but im in zonas game
can i /in conditionally that if this starts before zonas game
ill /out of that one lol zonas game is taking forever : /
/in
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK, we're filled up. Meapak asked if we could wait till Monday to start, so I'll check with him and see what works. Once roles go out the game has begun.
Chaoser will be co-hosting this game, so make sure you send a copy of your night actions to him, as he will be making the night and day posts on Fridays and Saturdays. It's important that you send your night actions to both of us each night though, not just on those days.
Deadline will always be at 9PM EST.
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I knew I should have used an epic /in gif T.T
I was afraid JeeJee would sue me over copyrights if I had chosen to do so.
well not really. I just don't know anything about gifs
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On November 13 2011 01:23 Radfield wrote:
OK, we're filled up. Meapak asked if we could wait till Monday to start, so I'll check with him and see what works. Once roles go out the game has begun.
Chaoser will be co-hosting this game, so make sure you send a copy of your night actions to him, as he will be making the night and day posts on Fridays and Saturdays. It's important that you send your night actions to both of us each night though, not just on those days.
Deadline will always be at 9PM EST.
You will all die horribly morbid overly detailed deaths.
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I'd like to /replacement if that's alright great chaoser
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On November 13 2011 02:01 GreYMisT wrote:
I'd like to /replacement if that's alright great chaoser
Ok. Replacements get special deaths too.
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On November 13 2011 02:24 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 02:01 GreYMisT wrote:
I'd like to /replacement if that's alright great chaoser Ok. Replacements get special deaths too.
Mine has to involve an extraordinary amount of cinnamon.
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On November 13 2011 02:29 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 02:24 chaoser wrote:On November 13 2011 02:01 GreYMisT wrote:
I'd like to /replacement if that's alright great chaoser Ok. Replacements get special deaths too. Mine has to involve an extraordinary amount of cinnamon.
Do you hate cinnamon? Are you allergic to it? What do you hate about it? the smell? the taste? the texture?
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I just really want something with cinnamon right now. I'm allergic to apples if that is what you are looking for
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On November 13 2011 02:31 GreYMisT wrote:
I just really want something with cinnamon right now. I'm allergic to apples if that is what you are looking for
Nah it's ok, apples aren't that particularly scary, I was thinking something with insects
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Oh that, insects are something I'm.. Not ok with, lol
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9 PM EST is 02:00 GMT (+00:00) if you were wondering. I was
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time tags ftw Radfield, learn to love them.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I forget how.. Teach me the ways of the time tag.
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United States22154 Posts
choose the time, then surround it with the tags [time] and /time] (close the brackets obviously) remember to include your timezone between the tags, and that tl uses military time.
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I'm glad you went with roleblocker and not rolecop in this kind of setup. Rolecop is really weak in something like this.
Wait, jailer also stops investigations on the jailed player? Interesting.
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On November 13 2011 08:55 Zona wrote:
I'm glad you went with roleblocker and not rolecop in this kind of setup. Rolecop is really weak in something like this.
Wait, jailer also stops investigations on the jailed player? Interesting.
He's already in jail, meaning the investigation is already over.
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Ok im not in Zona's one anymore Ill just be playing this i have a question what if the mafia roleblocker blocks the jailer and the jailer jails the mafia roleblocker what happens
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 13 2011 12:25 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok im not in Zona's one anymore Ill just be playing this i have a question what if the mafia roleblocker blocks the jailer and the jailer jails the mafia roleblocker what happens
An excellent question, though one dealt with in the Q & A section.
Q: What if the Jailkeeper and Roleblocker target each other?
A: Roleblocker will act first in this situation, and will prevent the Jailkeeper from using his action.
In practical terms, this means the roleblocker will still be able to perform the mafia kill(if the goon is dead).
We're going to start on Monday night. Just hold your horses(or ponies) until then.
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Rad I take it that the deadline will be very bad for us EU guys then? (I don't mind if you guys think that its the best for this game)
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Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!!
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lolll
or in my case: "wtf I wasn't here that lynch was terrible"
I can't remember a day 1 lynch I liked. I don't think such a thing exists.
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On November 13 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
lolll
or in my case: "wtf I wasn't here that lynch was terrible"
I can't remember a day 1 lynch I liked. I don't think such a thing exists.
Im liking the sounds of a day 1 lynch wherebugsgo.
Do ya like da sound of that :D
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On November 13 2011 14:12 Curu wrote:
Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!!
I have never been Mafia without you btw. You are such a shitty influence ^.^
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I shall be voting for Wiggles first, Seeing as every game we have played together, we never had the same alignment. I see no reason why this game will be any different
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On November 13 2011 15:33 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 14:12 Curu wrote:
Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!! I have never been Mafia without you btw. You are such a shitty influence ^.^
Carry you in Mafia, carry you in LoL, npnp.
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On November 13 2011 17:47 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 15:33 Erandorr wrote:On November 13 2011 14:12 Curu wrote:
Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!! I have never been Mafia without you btw. You are such a shitty influence ^.^ Carry you in Mafia, carry you in LoL, npnp.
says the guy who is not even lvl 30 and thinks bot lane is too hard ^.^
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you guys should add me in LoL ^^
Started playing a couple days ago
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On November 13 2011 17:51 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 17:47 Curu wrote:On November 13 2011 15:33 Erandorr wrote:On November 13 2011 14:12 Curu wrote:
Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!! I have never been Mafia without you btw. You are such a shitty influence ^.^ Carry you in Mafia, carry you in LoL, npnp. says the guy who is not even lvl 30 and thinks bot lane is too hard ^.^
Dat 18-0 Nurse Akali.
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On November 13 2011 20:10 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 17:51 Erandorr wrote:On November 13 2011 17:47 Curu wrote:On November 13 2011 15:33 Erandorr wrote:On November 13 2011 14:12 Curu wrote:
Better for you if you're Mafia! Oh hey we no lynched because I wasn't around? EU time bro!!! I have never been Mafia without you btw. You are such a shitty influence ^.^ Carry you in Mafia, carry you in LoL, npnp. says the guy who is not even lvl 30 and thinks bot lane is too hard ^.^ Dat 18-0 Nurse Akali.
against those high lvl opponents. Sorry for having doubted you but not everyonce could do that to lvl 8 guys !
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lol If only it was that easy i was waiting for Zona's game for abouuut 3.6 years I think
Till i finally gave up and joined this one
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 14 2011 19:28 Erandorr wrote:
I'm bored lets start.
We're starting tonight at 02:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On November 14 2011 21:54 Radfield wrote:We're starting tonight at 02:00 GMT (+00:00)
Deadline at 3 am is actually not as bad as in some other games ^.^
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Start time is excellent; all my HW is due and by that time I will be ready to relax lolol.
Deutsch exam in an hour, see you guys onthe other side! Hopefully by the time I'm back and exhausted there will be a mafia game to play/troll
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On November 15 2011 01:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
Start time is excellent; all my HW is due and by that time I will be ready to relax lolol.
Deutsch exam in an hour, see you guys onthe other side! Hopefully by the time I'm back and exhausted there will be a mafia game to play/troll
ICH BIN EINE BRATWURST! did i do that right?
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Deine Nase ist ein Schokoplätzchen!
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i taught him how to use genitive properly. In every sentence. Juristendeutsch ftw.
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United States22154 Posts
On November 15 2011 05:48 Curu wrote:
ein zwei drei
vier fünf sechs sieben, wo ist denn mein ball geblieben?
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I knew I should have chosen Japanese as my high school language course instead of German. I literally forgot everything I had learned back then T.T
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привет товарищи!
Am I doing it right?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
This poor thread.... first lol now german.
I'm sending out role PMs early, as I will be curling tonight. Once everyone has received their role PMs, the game will start. Deadline will be the same, so you get an extra 3.5 hours for day 1.
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On November 15 2011 05:55 GMarshal wrote:vier fünf sechs sieben, wo ist denn mein ball geblieben?
Sorry I do not know what happened to your balls 
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Also we could play some mafia now . Yes? YES!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Role PMs are out. The game has now begun.
Lynch deadline is 02:00 GMT (+00:00) Wednesday the 16th
A reminder that we are using extended majority lynch. If no majority is reached by the end of Day 1, no lynch will take place. If you want to vote for a no-lynch use the '##Vote No Lynch' format.
Chaoser or I will be updating the voting tally as often as we can.
Have fun everyone!
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On November 13 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
lolll
or in my case: "wtf I wasn't here that lynch was terrible"
I can't remember a day 1 lynch I liked. I don't think such a thing exists.
## Vote WBG
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On November 15 2011 06:45 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
lolll
or in my case: "wtf I wasn't here that lynch was terrible"
I can't remember a day 1 lynch I liked. I don't think such a thing exists. ## Vote WBG
+ Show Spoiler +starting the game off right I see
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Soooooooo are we all voting wherebugsgo :o
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Lynch deadline in 3 hours!??!?
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Hey jaybrundage why are you voting for wherebugsgo? What did he ever do to you?
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Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him
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On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote:
Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him
Since this is only your second game and your first game wasn't exactly spectacular, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you the following:
Are you fucking kidding me?
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On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote:
Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him
Are we still pregame trolling?
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I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not.
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On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not.
That's stupid.
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On November 15 2011 08:03 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote:
Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him Since this is only your second game and your first game wasn't exactly spectacular, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you the following: Are you fucking kidding me?
Hm funny thing is that this is my first game so you obviously have the wrong person.
And a no lynch would not be good from what i hear so why not?
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On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid.
As i am new tho this how would you suggest we start a lynch.
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On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid.
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style.
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Should have mentioned this earlier, but PM me if you want a link to the observer QT.
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Guys guys guys. Did I really just read palmar call for a lynch of a player who hasn't posted in the thread? And even worse, people are listening to him?
-_-
Are we stll pregame trolling?
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EBWOP: hasn't posted since the game began ofc.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 15 2011 07:53 prplhz wrote:
Lynch deadline in 3 hours!??!?
Apologies
Deadline is Wednesday the 16th at 02:00 GMT (+00:00). Apprx 48 hours from now.
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So if we are not lynching WBG then who do yall suggest we lynch prplhz
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On November 15 2011 12:46 jaybrundage wrote:
So if we are not lynching WBG then who do yall suggest we lynch prplhz
I suggest that you read every guide available on TL or actually look how other games are played before you post again in here. Thats not meant as an insult but someone playing that badly in their first game is very hard to read and in the end will only hurt town. So if you are anything other than red I would suggest you put some work in, please
So guys lets start playing !
On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style.
On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling
I was sort of trolling when I voted Wbg, question is why would you not actually vote for him if you seriously think that? You Scum?
On November 15 2011 10:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Guys guys guys. Did I really just read palmar call for a lynch of a player who hasn't posted in the thread? And even worse, people are listening to him?
-_-
Are we stll pregame trolling?
Apparantly we are or you would have made a post with actual content and getting us on track instead of .. well.. that
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I know you where trolling
Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game.
Lets start off on the right foot!
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On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot!
Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that.
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On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that.
How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own.
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On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot!
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
What I said before was really not a big deal, just some light teasing but you specificly said you are not trolling. Now if you are not, why would you not answer my question instead of giving us the usual groundrules bullshit?
"Lets start this off on the right foot " as in lets ignore what has been said before?
On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own.
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Oh and just to be clear I think it would be absolutely retarded to lynch Bugs like that.
This is a mini, we really can't afford to shoot someone based on meta alone. I know wbg can be a bit difficult, but he is not a bad player.
Brilliant Idea : Lets see him post first, analyze his posts and if he is scum we make a case that proves it. I know this concept seems strange but I feel like we should try it out .
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I think any policy lynch is stupid, and LAW (lynch-all-wherebugsgos) is one of the more stupid policies to lynch by. You want to just lock down the lynch on him without any discussion? Then how are we supposed to catch scum? If we lynch him based on nothing (he hasn't posted in the thread yet) then there's like 22% chance that he will be scum. That means that you want to sacrifice the following:
1 cycle of discussion
1 townie from NK
... in exchange for the following:
22% chance to hit a scum, a whopping 78% chance to hit a townie.
Tell me why you think this is a good deal? I am quite aware that Palmar is just trying to make discussion, so am I, now lets discuss.
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btw the rest of you guys can post too ^.^ its allowed
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We are not policy lynching anyone, mainly because even if it was a good idea, we can't afford to in this format. Also there is a 50% chance we have a cop and there are no millers or framers, which means policy lynches are even more retarded.
Meapak's posts caught my attention so far, if you are unhappy about the current state of town, you have to point it to a better direction, you are just complaining without actually being helpful.
I also want to hear from more from hiro. You say you knew errandor was trolling. Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
@jay Lynch is not done in a random fashion, it's aimed to hit mafia and produce information. I assume this is your first game? If so please go read some of the previous game and get an idea of how things work. I'm tired of mafia skirting by using noobness as an excuse. As of now you don't give me the feeling you have the town's best interest in mind.
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So how about we try a completely random lynch on day 1? We can use some external site to just randomize the lynch and go for it. Everyone up for it?
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ITT: Palmar has had his account taken over by Ace
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Wiggles and Bugs have not posted in this game at all. This is a Mini and Inactivity will destroy us(dunno if you guys knew that) so please post before this turns into GMs newbie mafia. Same goes for basicly everyoen else too (except me because im trying this time ! )
Palmar will you stop if I say pretty please? This is a mini and the thread is not going so fast. You said its very clear for everyone to see if you are Scum or not. That may be the case if you provided something to go on , which you are not doing and as you know thats not the exactly the greatest townplay. You rolling over again cause Scum is boring?
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Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys.
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On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys.
Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in no way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either.
For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now.
At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea?
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zzz also if I am the most active person in a game of mafia then something is going really really wrong
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Erandorr is on to something.
You guys all suck. jaybrundage has a valid excuse but people like Mr. Wiggles and Palmar don't. Stop being derps.
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I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then.
Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose.
Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro.
On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot!
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
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On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post
On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style.
On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question.
On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o
So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^
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Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here.
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EBWOP: ninja'd by Meapak.
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On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say?
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No really Meapak, whats wrong with what I said, and how was it fluff? Was it not relevant?
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I'm actually surprised you can't see how bad the post was. Did it add anything new? No. Did it call anyone out on their bullshit? No. Did it provide insight into your thoughts on the game? No. Did it bring something to light that everyone else was missing? No. Did it state the obvious? Yes.
At least my earlier posts called someone out on their bullshit, albeit sarcastically.
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Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
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Here's the thing, EVERYONE is against pointless arguement and tunneling. You don't need to post to say you're against it. Posting to say you're against it is a really easy, protown sounding statement that's not controversial that anyone can make. It also did a terrible job at "setting tone" seeing as it was incredibly weak and didn't add anything at all. That's not really a tone you want to set.
Please don't fall back on "framework for newer players" excuse, if you want to help newer players, you lead by example and don't make worthless posts.
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On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys.
Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what?
I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet.
On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling
Also this in regards to lynching wbg
On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot!
TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo.
AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion
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Heres the thing Meapak, I was leading by example because I dont think that post is worthless. It would be worthless if that was my only post, or if it was made 2/3 into day 1, but thats not the case. perhaps we should agree to disagree ^_^
Heres my beef thou. You say that everyone is all ready against pointless argument and tunneling, but it happens in lots of games. I think it needs to be said because lots of towns have self imploded on day 1 with pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads. I want to avoid it now, so I said something preemptive.
To call me out and say Im scum because of that, As well as insinuate that what I said has no value, Is not townie thinking. Its scummy. FoS on Meapak.
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...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post.
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No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands.
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Yea hiro protagonist is scum
##Vote hiro protagonist
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On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands.
wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas."
Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.
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-__-
ill be back in 24 hours
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1BT3n.jpg)
##Vote: hiro protagonist
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being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me.
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On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me.
I thought you were gone for 24 hours? It's cool that you supposedly want to contribute to a town friendly environment by repeating weak mantras that everybody can agree on, but can you actually use this for anything? Why didn't you vote for wherebugsgo when you said that threatening him with a lynch would be a good incentive for him to change what you think is poor town play? Who do you want to lynch if not wherebugsgo?
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I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch?
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also, Prp, did you read the thread? I all ready explained why I did not vote for WBG...
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Why do you want to lynch Meapak_Ziphh? I think we'd all like for the people who have 1 or less posts to post more, no need to state that explicitly really. One thing that's for sure, they're not all scum and some of them will start posting and then the rest will follow up.
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I am Sad !
prplhz :
On November 16 2011 04:54 prplhz wrote:
Erandorr is on to something.
You guys all suck. jaybrundage has a valid excuse but people like Mr. Wiggles and Palmar don't. Stop being derps.
Your only real post was discussing a blind meta lynch and you only gave some numbers about it. Then you honestly think you can get away with that shit of a post?
Palmar :
If you are town please behave and play properly instead of ... this . Usually you start trying at some point as town so now would be a good time, yes?
WBG
...
Wiggles
Really bad first(and only) post as I already stated and nothing from then on
Jay
Town newbie or Scum newbie?
Sandro
In his favor he tried to get some conversation going. BUT he did not try to do anything else to move this along and from what I have heard and seen, we should expect a lot more of someone like him
Meapak
Huh.
I dont quite know what to make of him right now, but I figure we can give him a bit more time. I guess the fitting description would be "Not as bad as a lot of others ?" which says a lot about this game right now.
Now this is on everyone except Hiro( I have to put a bit more work into that one )
The point I am trying to make is that you guys all flat out suck right now.
The lesson that got hammered into my brain was that making it sure to establish yourself as town is the most important goal you have. There are 6 town players in that list I made and right now that seems very hard to believe.
Lets say someone good like Sandroba is Scum. If he keeps up what he is doing right now, which is sitting there and posting something semi-useful he can get away with it because you, the other townies, give him the opportunity to do so. Right now scum can basicly sit there and keep their head down, because none of you do anything usefull at all.
Same goes for Palmar. He can be very good at this game and that his play right now has not even been brought up yet startles me a little bit. Sure he is known for trolling like crazy especially early game, but that is not an excuse.
Same goes for those who are known to be less strong, too. If a scum team can get away with being a tiny bit less scummy then the townies running around then you should not applaud them but shit on the town who let it happen.
I will be back writing about Hiro but I feel like this had to be said first.
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Vote Count
Wherebugsgo (3)
Erandorr
Palmer
jaybrundage
hiro protagonist (2)
prplhz
Meapak_Ziphh
Mr Wiggles, Wherebugsgo, hiro protagonist, and sandroba have not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in 26 and a half hours
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Well, If everything I say is obvious, and does not need stating, perhaps I should just stop posting...
I dont know, perhaps its because the activity level right now is bad? What else is there to say other than the obvious? How can we analysis if know one is saying anything. Im the current lynch target which is fine, but at least Im talking. So perhaps everyone else could come in and give us some insight please ^_^
Here is some more obvious stuff that does not need to be said: one mafia is almost surly lurking due to the activity in the thread so far. I think its very likely that one of Palmar, Meapak, Wiggles, or Sandroba is scum. Right now Im leaning towards Meapak.
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EBWOP: that was directed at Prp
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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On November 16 2011 08:30 hiro protagonist wrote:
Well, If everything I say is obvious, and does not need stating, perhaps I should just stop posting...
I dont know, perhaps its because the activity level right now is bad? What else is there to say other than the obvious? How can we analysis if know one is saying anything. Im the current lynch target which is fine, but at least Im talking. So perhaps everyone else could come in and give us some insight please ^_^
Here is some more obvious stuff that does not need to be said: one mafia is almost surly lurking due to the activity in the thread so far. I think its very likely that one of Palmar, Meapak, Wiggles, or Sandroba is scum. Right now Im leaning towards Meapak.
Nobody ever told you to stop talking, people just told you to stop stating obvious stuff. It is bad when a person did not vote at all.
Why is it fine that you are the lynch right now? Why did you put Meapak_Ziphh on your lurker list when he's actually posted quite a bit more than most other people? Why are you leaning scum on him? You don't have to lean scum on him you know.
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that was not a lurker list per say.
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Hi all, apologies for the lack of activity on my part. I just got back from a school protest (aww yeah Berkeley) and class...which I semi skipped for the strike. lololol. On the upside, I have all day today to do homework and play this! (and maybe league of legends later) apparently it was a good idea to skip my afternoon class. we just had a shooting at our business school as I was typing this, like 30 minutes ago (2:50 pm local time) scary shit.
Okay, enough chitter chatter, both on my part and all of yours! Let's get to hunting scum.
WBG's Traveling Circus
Awesome Guide to Catching Scum!
Step 1:
Tell people who are being dumb to stop being dumb. It's distracting, damn it!
These people, stop being thick. If you're town, you're hurting more than helping. If you continue to be dumb, I will vote you.
Current Dumb List
Palmar
jaybrundage
Mr. Wiggles
Step 2:
Elaborate!
Palmar, as usual, you have started day 1 by being useless. It's quite funny that you call me unreadable and you say this:
On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not.
when this is quite a hypocritical fabrication. Firstly, I don't know if I should be insulted, or flattered. So...I'll go with indifference. My town play isn't amazingly horrible. I had a very bad performance in XLV and I probably will never live that down, but I have grown to despise PM games because of it and PYP. In PYP most of the scum I caught were caught in the thread and not through PMs. PMs just allowed them to escape off the hook. Recall that my day 1 scumreads in PYP were prpl and chaoser, both scum. They both survived day 1 because they used PMs to convince Rad and Mig that they were town. Prpl had the balls to claim DF and chaoser just guilt tripped us. My third read was sandro, also scum, again surviving because of PMs. My fourth was node, the person Mig and I told Radfield to ultimately lynch. Also scum. Fifth was Wiggles, who was shot by the town circle on n2. Also scum.
I would like to think that my performance in non-PM games is better than it is in PM games. Granted, the sample size is tiny so take what you will.
I recall you calling me bad repeatedly in PYP. Yet, you were the one shot by another townie, you were the one who tried shooting a townie on n1, and you were the one more detrimental to town that game. And you say that you are in the same league as sandro as town (rofl), a player who routinely rapes scumteams. I don't think so.
By all means though, the problem we have right now is that none of this makes you anything other than completely null. You're self-admittedly horrible at scum, but it's anyone's guess what alignment you are right now. (as usual)
jaybrundage, I don't know who you are, since you are new. However, as sandro said, this is not how you start a game of mafia. It'll get you lynched sooner than later. Please make an effort to read the thread and push your suspicions with proper logic and reasoning. Reading well is the most important part of this game. If you don't do that, then you will be a distraction to town because you won't know what's going on.
Don't be afraid of posting, either. If you disappear randomly at inopportune moments we will be forced to be suspicious of you.
On November 15 2011 10:11 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 08:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote:
Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him Since this is only your second game and your first game wasn't exactly spectacular, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you the following: Are you fucking kidding me? Hm funny thing is that this is my first game so you obviously have the wrong person. And a no lynch would not be good from what i hear so why not?
This, for example, is an example of bad logic. A no-lynch is only bad in the case where we have a good scummy target to kill and we benefit more from the information we get from the lynch on day 1 than anything else. In the case where we suspect all the vote candidates close to the deadline are actually townies, a no-lynch is very good because it will extend the game by 1 day.
In fact, if we're unsure by tomorrow if we have a scum or not, no-lynching would be a great idea. However, right now that isn't the case, luckily.
Of course, if you're scum, go fuck yourself, you're never gonna listen to this anyway.
On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys.
Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.
Step 3:
Find things that don't make sense!
+ Show Spoiler [wallofquotes] +On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-
ill be back in 24 hours On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch?
Oh oops...
I guess that's every single post hiro has made since the game started.
I guess I'll make it easier for everyone in the future and just post his entire fucking filter.
Other things that don't make much sense: as previously mentioned, Wiggles's only post and Palmar's hypocrisy.
This post by jay:
On November 15 2011 08:02 jaybrundage wrote:
Because we need to get lynch off and someone else voted for him
Very terrible reason to vote someone.
Step 4:
Piece together the nonsense!
Alright, this could be long, since hiro has basically done almost every scumslip imaginable in the span of like six hours. I've spoilered the following with my commentary. I duplicated the quotes from earlier since it's easier for me to keep my train of thought steady when I can see what originally tipped me off as weird.
Open when you are ready.
+ Show Spoiler [hiroanalysis] +On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Shocking. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. The funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-
ill be back in 24 hours Okay, good. On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT At any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch? This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie.
Step 5:
Conclude!
For now since I think hiro is almost certainly scum, let's kill him and then focus our efforts on finding that second guy. Right now there isn't much info, so it could probably be anyone, though if hiro is scum then meapak and prpl are almost definitely not.
We need to watch Palmar/Wiggles carefully, IMO. Palmar very rarely posts clearly in the thread, regardless of alignment, though he tends to be lazy scum. He's aware of that, though, so even if he is scum we can't count on it being easy to catch him. I've never played town with wiggles (so if anyone can point me in the right direction on that, that'd be great) but he tends to slip by as scum, I've noticed. People will think he's scummy but then he just won't die, which is weird.
For jaybrundage, there are two scum, so we can afford to give him the benefit of the noob doubt and let him live till tomorrow, if he doesn't shape up by then and we think he's scum then we kill him. Lynching a new player on day 1 probably won't lead us anywhere.
Step 6:
Vote!
##vote hiro protagonist
|
On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post.
I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing.
On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea?
Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on.
It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content.
Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked.
Erandorr:
He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis.
Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
jaybrundage:
Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point:
On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. Also this in regards to lynching wbg Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion
Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO.
Wherebugsgo:
This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell.
|
I would like to say something about that thing bugs just posted, but since there is a lot of nothing in there i will just focus on the analysis. I will put my thoughts in green
I think hiro is looking pretty bad right now but the way WBG argues pissed me off so much that I had to write about it .
The worst part is that its a post by post analysis looking to catch scum by slips and ignoring everything else thats going on. I almost have a feeling that he just filters people and then writes his analysis that way .
Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style.
First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good.
But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general.
In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord?
because he is not talking about that...
On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling
Shocking.
shut up
On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot!
He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy.
This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myself
On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own.
What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic.
Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum?
Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar.
shut up
The funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy.
I agree with that one a bit.
On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question.
Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later.
yeah that part is true too
On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^
Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that.
Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him?
what is this retarded shit that you actually just wrote down there? If he was scum and you were town why would he want to ignore another lurker to force attention away from him? The only way this makes sense is if you are actually scum and want to bus your teammate or... he forgot you?
On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say?
Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too.
yup thats defensive
On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players.
Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail.
Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis.
On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands.
Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth?
Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong.
Its ultra defensive OMGUS. Scummy but not as harsh as you make it look
On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-
ill be back in 24 hours
Okay, good.
Wait for it
On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me.
WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT
shut up
At any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that?
Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl.
OMGUS. Hiro is bad at mafia. And you start repeating yourself. Scummy as hell? yeap. Confirmed Scum? Nope.
On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch?
This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game.
He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch?
No townie.
This pretty much sums it up perfectly. What kind of Mafia player would call not voting for someone you think is supsicius the biggest scumtell a player could make in that situation? WBG.
Okay this was just a rant not designed to do anything but convince people not to listen to bugs too much
My own analysis will be coming up tomorrow morning its 2:30 AM and I need to get some sleep.
Also Sandro Wiggles and Palmar , you guys are actually good at this game so please start doing something of value, yes?
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LoL i shoud have spoilered that but im really tired . Goog night and sorry for that wall ^.^
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does everyone think I suck at this game? T_T
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On November 16 2011 11:07 hiro protagonist wrote:
does everyone think I suck at this game? T_T
In what way does that question help town? You're appealing to emotions, why are you doing that?
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Prpr, could you not ask 3 questions of me every time I post once. The statement is self evident...
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On November 16 2011 11:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
Prpr, could you not ask 3 questions of me every time I post once. The statement is self evident...
If it is self evident, then why am I asking? If you are town then you are in a very unique and potent position, because you know your alignment. Read the cases against you, point out flaws, explain your behavior, your point of view is the most important right now. Right now, you're not giving anybody anything, which is scum behavior. Scum can appeal to emotions just as well as town, it's a null tell so why do you even bother unless you're a scum and this is a hail mary of sort?
Answer questions. Read the thread. Post your reads and reasonable.
"I am a bad townie" is something no one should ever say. Just start playing the game.
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On November 16 2011 10:38 Erandorr wrote:I would like to say something about that thing bugs just posted, but since there is a lot of nothing in there i will just focus on the analysis. I will put my thoughts in greenI think hiro is looking pretty bad right now but the way WBG argues pissed me off so much that I had to write about it . The worst part is that its a post by post analysis looking to catch scum by slips and ignoring everything else thats going on. I almost have a feeling that he just filters people and then writes his analysis that way . Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? because he is not talking about that...Shocking. shut upShow nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myselfShow nested quote +On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum?Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. shut upThe funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. I agree with that one a bit.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. yeah that part is true tooShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? what is this retarded shit that you actually just wrote down there? If he was scum and you were town why would he want to ignore another lurker to force attention away from him? The only way this makes sense is if you are actually scum and want to bus your teammate or... he forgot you?Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. yup thats defensiveShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. Its ultra defensive OMGUS. Scummy but not as harsh as you make it lookShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-
ill be back in 24 hours Okay, good. Wait for itShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT shut upAt any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. OMGUS. Hiro is bad at mafia. And you start repeating yourself. Scummy as hell? yeap. Confirmed Scum? Nope.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch? This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie. This pretty much sums it up perfectly. What kind of Mafia player would call not voting for someone you think is supsicius the biggest scumtell a player could make in that situation? WBG.
Okay this was just a rant not designed to do anything but convince people not to listen to bugs too much
My own analysis will be coming up tomorrow morning its 2:30 AM and I need to get some sleep.
Also Sandro Wiggles and Palmar , you guys are actually good at this game so please start doing something of value, yes?
Of course calling someone scum and then not voting them is a huge tell.
It's a blatant behavioral contradiction.
Hiro is pretty scummy as town, sure, but that doesn't excuse him from making scummy posts or doing scummy things. That's about all he's done this game. If you don't want to listen to me, fine, don't lynch hiro.
The funniest part about this is that hiro supports pushing a lynch on me to supposedly "correct" my style of play when he doesn't see that he himself plays really bad as town. That's the only downside to lynching hiro; he plays so scummy as town that he might very well be town right now. This is one thing I highlighted in his posts but for some reason forgot to mention. (I highlighted the part where he says it'd be a great idea to pressure me, but didn't comment on it)
You can turn almost everything he says back on himself. That's how bad it is.
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OK, here are my reads so far:
1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...
4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.
5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.
6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.
7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^
8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.
9.Sandroba- nothing.
And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:
-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.
-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.
-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
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##Vote: Wherebugsgo
forgot to bold
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On November 16 2011 10:38 Erandorr wrote:I would like to say something about that thing bugs just posted, but since there is a lot of nothing in there i will just focus on the analysis. I will put my thoughts in greenI think hiro is looking pretty bad right now but the way WBG argues pissed me off so much that I had to write about it . The worst part is that its a post by post analysis looking to catch scum by slips and ignoring everything else thats going on. I almost have a feeling that he just filters people and then writes his analysis that way . Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 10:03 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote:
I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch.
He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. That's stupid. No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. First post of the game. Completely agrees with Palmar when Palmar wasn't even correct. He doesn't even agree with Palmar on why I would make a good lynch. Palmar suggests that I'd make a good lynch on the simple fact that I am difficult to read and that I am a bigger threat to town as scum rather than a benefit as town. Hiro thinks I should be lynched because he doesn't like my aggressiveness. There's a huge difference here. Most telling is the fact that hiro agrees without actually knowing what my scum play looks like. Palmar's vote hinges primarily on the assumption that my scum play is good. But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general. In fact, you can even smell that hiro reacted in a way that suggests he already knows I'm town. Otherwise, why would he bring up my aggressiveness specifically when I am town on his own accord? because he is not talking about that...Shocking. shut upShow nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! He says that he's going to take a hard stance on anyone who derails positive discussion, and that good posting involves posts with content. The very post in which this is said has no content. Definition of hypocrisy. This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myselfShow nested quote +On November 15 2011 18:14 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 17:38 prplhz wrote:On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. How bought this, tell my why its bad to bring up lynch based on logic? How about discussing the merits of such a lynch? A side affect of "Palmars plan" stirs discussion, how is that bad? In your two post so far, you have only commented on other players post, without providing any content of you own. What's not so surprising here is that hiro doesn't understand what logic actually is. What's sad is that he thinks Palmar's vote reason was an example of good logic. Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum?Palmar's plan surely stirred discussion. And you're right hiro, it isn't bad, since you were outed by it. So thanks, Palmar. shut upThe funniest part of this post is the end. Hiro gets incredibly defensive on prpl and accuses prpl of making useless posts. Once again, hypocrisy. I agree with that one a bit.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
Whoa how about you start answering my question instead of ignoring it ? ^.^
I tend not to answer questions about me that can be answered by reading my post On November 15 2011 10:18 hiro protagonist wrote:
No its not. Palmar is spot on about WBG's play. His overly aggressive play does not create good town atmosphere IMO. I would vote on him just on that alone. I would hope that the threat of a meta lynch would change his style. On November 15 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:
And why are you so ultra defensive O.o
Prl asked you a completely sensible question and you shout at him instead of discussing which you said was one goal of your post on bugs. Thats basicly contradicting yourself. Prl as well as everybody else has to provide content, of course but that does not mean you have the right to shout at him when you don't provide content especially since I specificly asked you a question .
Shout at him? I was just typing 0_o. He ask a question about something I did not do. I did not place a vote on WBG. I agree that It would be dumb to try and lynch someone that has not posted yet. But whats wrong about threatening to lynch someone if they play like they did in past games that have been anti town? I got nothing against bugs, but there is nothing wrong about encouraging him to change his meta a bit for the good of this game is there? hopefully that answers your question. Okay, so first hiro says he doesn't answer questions about himself that can be read in his posts. Yet, he never actually explained why he was okay with pressuring me, but not okay with actually going one step further and being part of that pressure with a vote. Erandorr's question was perfectly valid, and very telling of hiro's alignment. Scum aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is; they tend to be cautious when cementing their thoughts with a vote. Let's keep this in mind, since it comes into play later. yeah that part is true tooShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 15 2011 21:33 sandroba wrote:
Explain to me how that was obvious to you, while you argued the merits of blind lynching wbg.
Again, putting words in my mouth. I argued lynching Wbg if he plays like his usually overly aggressive/tunneling self. No where do I say we should blind lynch anyone. 0_o So, with that out of the way, I would like to here more from Meapak, as he is the only one that has not said something game relevant yet. Also jaybrundage, dont be shy, We know your new to the game so we wont hold it against you. tell us what you think of the other player so far ^_^ Let's also keep this in mind; note how hiro accuses sandro of putting words in his mouth. Remember that. Also what's weird is that he says he wants to hear more from Meapak, who apparently is the only one who has not said anything game relevant. Wtf? What happened to me? Did he just forget about me because Meapak became suspicious of him? what is this retarded shit that you actually just wrote down there? If he was scum and you were town why would he want to ignore another lurker to force attention away from him? The only way this makes sense is if you are actually scum and want to bus your teammate or... he forgot you?Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:06 hiro protagonist wrote:On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. How about the content in your posts before this one 0_0 ? who had more to say? Hiro responds to the accusation that his posts are useless with a counter accusation. Let's keep this in mind too. yup thats defensiveShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
Did it attempt to set the tone for the day? Yes. Did it give my feelings on pointless arguing and tunneling? Yes. Does it give a framework for newer players? Yes.
I know "game mechanics" type post dont reveal alinement, but that does not make them useless. Why are you trying to say otherwise?
Okay, you can tell this post is total and utter bullshit just by the fact that he claims he was trying to set a framework for newer players. Newsflash: If anyone actually read the player list for this game, there is only ONE new player. Jaybrundage. Everyone else knows how to play mafia, and this cop out excuse is a total bunch of shit. Nice fail. Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. Alright, remember how I said to keep in mind that hiro accused sandro of putting words in his mouth? Here we see hiro putting words in Meapak's mouth. Once again, blatant hypocrite. Hiro's posts, by all standards, are completely worthless. The jump from Meapak calling hiro's post useless to Meapak encouraging spam, arguing, tunneling, and pro-mafia ideas in general is incredibly illogical. It's also completely dead wrong. Its ultra defensive OMGUS. Scummy but not as harsh as you make it lookShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:17 hiro protagonist wrote:
-__-
ill be back in 24 hours Okay, good. Wait for itShow nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:56 hiro protagonist wrote:
being loud does not mean your right Meapak. I stand behind everything I said. Just because you say its worthless does not make it so. How am I to start the game then. Troll like everyone else? Im being active and contributing while some players have said next to nothing. "OMG! someone is acting pro town! he must be scum trying to fit in!" This is your logic for lynching me. WAIT WTF I THOUGHT YOU LEFT shut upAt any rate, remember how hiro responded to Meapak's accusation that hiro's post was useless? Right, he accused Meapak of writing useless posts. Well, here he suggests that Meapak is throwing around baseless accusations about hiro's post quality. Well, wtf is hiro doing then, if not exactly that? Then he goes and shits himself when trying to make meapak look bad. He accuses meapak of trying to lynch a pro-town player. rofl. OMGUS. Hiro is bad at mafia. And you start repeating yourself. Scummy as hell? yeap. Confirmed Scum? Nope.Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch? This is arguably the most telling post that hiro has made the entire game. He says he wants to lynch Meapak, but does not vote him. What kind of townie does that? What kind of townie is afraid to take attention, to take heat for leading a lynch? No townie. This pretty much sums it up perfectly. What kind of Mafia player would call not voting for someone you think is supsicius the biggest scumtell a player could make in that situation? WBG.
Okay this was just a rant not designed to do anything but convince people not to listen to bugs too much
My own analysis will be coming up tomorrow morning its 2:30 AM and I need to get some sleep.
Also Sandro Wiggles and Palmar , you guys are actually good at this game so please start doing something of value, yes?
also rofl Erandorr really...
But Hiros point is not actually as bad as you make it sound. You are overly agressive and have destroyed games nearly by yourself (XLV comes to mind) Its not about your Scumplay for him it is about your play in general.
My play is not the issue we're talking about here. You're leading yourself in a circle because you think this revolves around me. It doesn't, people just don't know how to deal with tunneling and aggression.
And my point is that for Palmar, he was concerned that my scumplay is good and my townplay is meh-making me hard to read. Hiro pretty much just stopped short of calling me bad, which was not really what Palmar was saying. Although me saying that is probably going to invite Palmar in to call me bad (haha)
because he is not talking about that...
What is he talking about, if not my aggressiveness as town? rofl...
Never once did hiro support pressuring me because I'm scum. I don't agree with that. You don't pressure people because you don't like how they play, unless it's actually really detrimental to town. Aggression isn't detrimental to town. Lurking, lying, and bad logic are, however.
Take Palmar, for example. Is his tunneling bad for town? No, it's just most people don't know how to handle it, so they end up thinking he's scum. That's dumb and illogical. I thought so myself in XLIV and I was an idiot.
This point is debatable. If you are really bad at this game (and hiro never proved differently) its actually possble that this post was made by a townie. That you missed the really scummy parts is kind of funny but I will get to that when I write about Hiro myself
You're defending him cause he's bad. Lol.
And no, I didn't miss anything. I wrote quite a bit, in going back and reading it I noticed I still had thoughts I hadn't written. In fact, if I mentioned more you'd probably attack me for it, since that seems to be the flavor of your post.
Now let me ask you. If he actually thinks thats an example of good logic, doesnt that mean you are saying he is dumb. Does being dumb make him scum?
I never said that. However, using bad logic to support a shitty vote is definitely pro-mafia, because that leads to an easy lynch.
Being bad doesn't make someone mafia but pushing a mafia agenda does! Alignment doesn't affect skill level much usually (some exceptions obviously) so I don't imagine hiro would magically appear to be 10 times better than he really is if he was scum. As you say, skill level isn't an indicator of alignment, so saying he's bad therefore he's town is concluding something based on inconclusive evidence.
Didn't you learn your lesson from PYP? sinani is bad, but he doesn't play any better when he's scum.
Thats one point he is adding to make his defence stronger. Hiro is not looking good but this is no way to do an analysis.
Aren't you the one who asked why hiro was being so ultra-defensive?
Think about it, how can he be trying to "set up a framework for new players" when there really aren't any new players in this game?
It really just sounds like a reason he made up after the fact, when someone called out the uselessness of his post. It's fabricated. It's a lie. He's making up things that aren't true to push attention off himself onto other people. That's scummy.
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On November 16 2011 12:29 hiro protagonist wrote:
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
forgot to bold
Wait so both the people you called scum are both people who have put pressure on you?
Also where exactly along the line did WBG become a better lynch then me? Your argument against him is as weak as your posts have been, and your reasons simply parrot what Palmar said earlier in the game. It was dumb when Palmar said it, it hasn't gotten any better since.
Also Erandor I meant to make a post earlier but I was on my phone and it didn't go through but basically what it said was: You agree with WBG's argument against hiro but you're arguing with him because you don't like him? That seems kinda weird bro :/
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I'm getting a lot of love today ^^
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WBG I figured it out! He hates people with 2600ish post counts and Protoss icons!
#likeaboss
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@hiro protagonist
Can you point out something about wherebugsgo's play style that has bothered you in this specific game? You have complained about him being spammy and over aggressive but he hasn't really been that this game has he?
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Use spoiler tags sometime!
I mean...
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@Meapak_Ziphh
What happened in between this post and this post that made you think that hiro protagonist was any more mafia, so much more that he suddenly deserved your vote? Why didn't you vote him in the first of those posts?
@Mr. Wiggles
On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
[...]
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell.
This really rubs me the wrong way. "Too bad no one was really dumb", are you trying to catch dumb people? "Most townies here are smart enough to know not to [answer your question]" why are you trying to catch dumb townies with your question and not scum? I don't understand this at all, please explain. Why are you trying to pose as "catching" scum with gimmicky shit like this, when you acknowledge yourself that it will most likely just "catch" dumb townies?
@sandroba, Palmar
lol™
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@prphlz: I had to make the picture lol.
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On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:
1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...
4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.
5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.
6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.
7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^
8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.
9.Sandroba- nothing.
And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:
-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.
-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.
-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
What's interesting is that none of the reasons included "I think he's scum."
rofl.
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also more than one occasion? Are you on crack? The only loss that was ever my fault was XLV. I've completed 4 games as town, that's it. XLIV, resurrection, XLV, and PYP:I. In MLP and the previous mini I was scum. Town absolutely destroyed resurrection and PYP (and I was a part of it) and town got destroyed in XLIV and XLV. I take the blame for XLV but it's not like my aggressive behavior caused losses in other games.
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@wherebugsgo
Do you really really think that hiro protagonist is scum?
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let me put it this way:
as long as the current activity level persists, there is no better option. Palmar and sandro both have done next to nothing in the past what...24 hours? Jaybrundage is new, and everyone else doesn't have enough posts. I'd like to hear from wiggles, though. Other than you, meapak, Erandorr, hiro, no one is doing anything. Hiro hasn't said one thing yet that makes sense or furthers the town's agenda and the other three of you look town right now.
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The alternative, if this keeps up, is to no-lynch.
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@Palmar
Would you rather lynch wherebugsgo that no-lynch?
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I'll give my thoughts on day 1 soon-ish. I'm still up for completely random lynching btw.
At the moment I'm not quite sure I want to lynch WBG, he seems reasonable. I also don't agree with the lynch on Hiro, but that's pending me actually reading everything in the thread.
I'd rather no-lynch than lynch a townie, and I will press the issue. I made that promise to myself sometime during XLIV and I have followed through ever since, I will NOT vote on people I think are town, no matter the circumstances.
So yeah, don't worry about it I will give you what you need before the day is over.
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I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro.
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Irrelevant to the game:
+ Show Spoiler +@WBG: I never said your town play was terrible, I said it was middle of the road. You haven't caught up with the pro town players, but you're still decent. I just used it to contrast it with the fact that you have very strong scum play.
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palmar ninja -_-
fucking butchered enthusiastic so much I felt I needed to correct it
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Wanna have a conversation Sandroba?
I'll start. First up, I think it's very unlikely the new kid (jaybrundage) is scum. His random vote on Wherebugsgo seemed genuinely clueless enough and he's actually playing as if he has nothing to hide and no fear. I would very much oppose a lynch on that guy today. So, what do you think about him? Do you agree with my conclusion that he would be a terrible lynch today?
You can then select the next person we talk about.
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I don't agree. He does seem clueless, but he could be clueless mafia following the flow just as easily. I think a new townie would ask questions and try to get a better explanation on why to lynch wbg before putting in his vote. Kinda hard to say though, new players are kinda my weak spot =/. I wouldn't lynch him today because I'm nowhere near certain on him.
Tell me what you think about Wiggles.
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Wiggles is one of the people that look pretty scummy to me. His idea for creating discussion bears some resemblance (not materially, just the mindset it seems to be created in) to his EA plan in Cosmic Horror mafia. His posts are carefully constructed and notice that when he gives us his reads he doesn't actually put anyone up against the wall. It's all "we need to keep this in mind" or "x needs to be watched".
Of particular interest is his piece on Wherebugsgo:
Wherebugsgo:
This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
This is one of the weakest accusations I have ever seen, it's almost as if he's really not trying to step on any toes, while spreading around a ton of mistrust by detracting players. He has also conveniently completely skipped me and you, which is of particular interest because we've played so many games with him that I would think he'd look at our performance early. I guess he can hide behind our lack of content.
But yeah, I would be fine with lynching Wiggles today.
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So what do you think about wiggles Sandroba, and give me your thoughts on prplhz and Erandorr
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I agree with what you said about wiggles and there is always the statistical benefit of lynching wiggles, even when there is no evidence on him =P
But seriously, his posts screams to me "look at me guyz, I'm being helpful and trying to find scum!". He seems to be trying to blend in too hard. I'd rather see some more from him before pushing for his lynch though, hopefully he will comply.
prplhz seems town to me this game, so maybe that means he is mafia? (j/k prpl =P)
errandor is interesting. His play this game is way different than any game I've played with him before, and one thing that's clear for sure is that he is trying his best to win this one. I'm leaning town, mainly because he is arguing against the hiro lynch which seems reasonable to me at this point.
Onto my weak scum suspect, Meapak: what do you think about this guy?
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I don't think I agree with you on Meapak, but maybe I'm missing something. There really are two options on how to interpret Meapak's play this game.
First off, we have to realize he's being aggressive and is spearheading a lynch. This is almost always a townie trait, since scum don't like being held accountable for mislynching, and I doubt he'd have the balls to bus this hard on day 1. We also know that when Meapak is scum he has a tendency to play very carefully, while this looks much more like his town play. He hands out insults and has no issues with taking a stance.
Now is it possible this might be Meapak's new and improved scum play? Certainly. But that doesn't change the fact that my rule of thumb is to go with the most obvious answer in every case, and in this case the obvious solution is Meapak is town.
prplhz is being very aggressive, but I know he's capable of that as scum. His scum play is surprisingly solid in general. But overall I think this is prplhz just being town and trying to be useful. He does seem to be genuinely frustrated at how this game started out, instead of the usually easy to find "feign frustration" thing mafia like to do.
Errandor is probably the guy aside from Wiggles I'd be happy lynching. It's so weird to see his play until that huge post. It's filled with excuses and non-content. He made a post here where he lists up every single player in the game without really saying anything. It really does look like something that's thrown together to try and fit in.
----
Lol, I thought I posted this before lunch, sorry about the delay
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Wiggles was not EA in Chosmic Horror if I remember correctly.
Since you guys are having fun talking about everyone in this game , what do you think àbout each other at this point?
I would also like to point out that Hiro still is scummy. Sandro you said that Hiros posts are genuine but what do you think about his earlier posts. I specificly asked Hiro a question and his answer was
I know you where trolling
In the same post he give us the usual game mechanics crap and repeats twice that he wants to "start the game on the right foot" This seemed wrong combined with the fact that when I asked him to answer my question, he still did not do it.
If you want to start the game off right, I think most people would prefer actual discussion instead of posting about game mechanics. That says "Look I am trying" more than actually doing something.
It still is possible that he actually thought that it was the best he could do and he is scummy as hell every game he is town, so it is not enough to warrant a lynch, but I still don't think you can say that he is doing fine at the moment.
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On November 16 2011 21:08 Erandorr wrote:Wiggles was not EA in Chosmic Horror if I remember correctly. Since you guys are having fun talking about everyone in this game , what do you think àbout each other at this point? I would also like to point out that Hiro still is scummy. Sandro you said that Hiros posts are genuine but what do you think about his earlier posts. I specificly asked Hiro a question and his answer was In the same post he give us the usual game mechanics crap and repeats twice that he wants to "start the game on the right foot" This seemed wrong combined with the fact that when I asked him to answer my question, he still did not do it. If you want to start the game off right, I think most people would prefer actual discussion instead of posting about game mechanics. That says "Look I am trying" more than actually doing something. It still is possible that he actually thought that it was the best he could do and he is scummy as hell every game he is town, so it is not enough to warrant a lynch, but I still don't think you can say that he is doing fine at the moment.
Of course he wasn't, he was scum. I never agreed with GM's theory that Wiggles was the EA (I even specifically pointed out that it was weird GM thought he could figure that out), but I did agree Wiggles was scum in that game.
I don't want to lynch Hiro, I'd rather lynch you or Wiggles at this point. As for my thoughts about sandroba, this discussion is an excellent tool to find out if he's scum or not. Just the fact that he's actively part-taking in it looks pretty townie to me.
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Palmar are you serious and did you actually read what I wrote? The point I was trying to make at that point was that no discussion was going on and I gave a quick assesment on every player in the game to point out that with that kind of inactivity , we would lose the game. I was trying to get people out of their passsivity and start behaving like townies. Why would I write something like that to fill in?
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On November 16 2011 21:13 Erandorr wrote:
Palmar are you serious and did you actually read what I wrote? The point I was trying to make at that point was that no discussion was going on and I gave a quick assesment on every player in the game to point out that with that kind of inactivity , we would lose the game. I was trying to get people out of their passsivity and start behaving like townies. Why would I write something like that to fill in?
Because you're pointing out obvious things that everyone is fully aware of, while saying nothing. We can all count. We all know that half of town had few posts until then. What made you take upon the badge of a white knight to try and save town from inactivity?
Remember, if you really want to spark discussion, all you have to do is to either come up with a plan, or to write a case on someone. Something you chose to ignore. You pointed out a problem without providing solution. I am, just as much as you, aware of how inactive town has been. Unlike you, I decided to actually do something about it instead of complain about it, and thus I had the idea of having a conversation with Sandroba.
Of course I read what you wrote, you should know by now that I read very carefully what gets written (unless I'm scum, then I just write silly cases and hope people derp on them).
I'm not going to convince you that you're scum, but I can at least try to get reads out of you if you aren't. Can you explain what your current thoughts are on lynching Mr. Wiggles?
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I would be okay with lynching Wiggles.
Since I am still mad about you saying that I did not provide anything :
On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea?
Really bad first post followed up with this response to me:
Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on.
It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content.
Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked.
He spins his very bad first post in a way to make it seem pro town. Basicly he is saying that he posted crap to get a response out of people.He is of the opinion that a lot of bad ideas does not lead to anything, yet his did? The thing is that very few people actually talked about it and it certainly did not get discussion going. The responses he got are not conclusive at all but he lets them sound strong, to show that his own shitty post was good, pro town instead of scummy and bad.
Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell.
He is saying that we are too smart and gave him shit of a scummy post , but the scummy post was really a trap but also got good responses out of people. I don't reaaaally think thats good logic there.
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So is wiggles currently your strongest scumread? Or is it Hiro?
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Stuff I don't particularly think is totally awesome:
1.
Palmar seems town to me so far but then why the hell does he do stuff like this:
On November 16 2011 19:10 Palmar wrote:
I'll give my thoughts on day 1 soon-ish. I'm still up for completely random lynching btw.
At the moment I'm not quite sure I want to lynch WBG, he seems reasonable. I also don't agree with the lynch on Hiro, but that's pending me actually reading everything in the thread.
I'd rather no-lynch than lynch a townie, and I will press the issue. I made that promise to myself sometime during XLIV and I have followed through ever since, I will NOT vote on people I think are town, no matter the circumstances.
So yeah, don't worry about it I will give you what you need before the day is over.
Bolded for your convenience.
On November 16 2011 19:13 Palmar wrote:Irrelevant to the game: + Show Spoiler +@WBG: I never said your town play was terrible, I said it was middle of the road. You haven't caught up with the pro town players, but you're still decent. I just used it to contrast it with the fact that you have very strong scum play.
How exactly is this irrelevant to the game!?
2.
Erandorr's huge big post that I'd quote but I'm afraid reposting would break the internet.
This post is actually not saying anything at all. sandroba said that Erandorr was defending hiro protagonist, but he isn't. He is actually agreeing with a lot of the stuff that wherebugsgo points out. What Erandorr is most pissed at is the way that wherebugsgo plays. This is a big opinion post about how someone else plays the game without actually concluding anything about the game, he doesn't end up saying that hiro protagonist is scum, nor does he say that hiro protagonist is scum. I mean I have no idea what this post was about and neither does Erandorr, so why make it? He then promises that he'll post some actual analysis but he never does this.
It is cool that you're trying to be active and all but you're not helping and that's weird.
3.
I think sandroba's read on Erandorr is wrong. Erandorr is putting effort into this game alright but that doesn't make him town, and he never argued against the hiro protagonist lynch. I think it's weird that sandroba would think that Erandorr is town because of something Erandorr readily admits that he never did.
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A random lynch is different from voting based on evidence prplhz. You must surely understand the difference of voting against your opinion, and voting without having an opinion. Random lynch is fair because you don't actually build an opinion.
Anyway, what do you think of lynching Wiggles prplhz?
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A lynch is a lynch, you can't just blame atmospheric noise or quantum mechanics when you vote on somebody who flips town. Can you tell me why a random lynch would be good for town as opposed to a no lynch?
I think Mr. Wiggles is the best lynch right now. He's actively been a lot more derpy than what should be expected from him. I'd like him to show up right now and start talking.
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Also, I think people need to argue a bit more about the hiro protagonist lynch. I seems that there's general consensus that he's just appearing scummy but, duh, that's what scum do? I think it's a bit weird that he only ever got two votes when he actually was very very scummy, and he keeps appearing like that. He doesn't answer questions and he doesn't post his reads beyond "I think everybody is town, but some are more town than others. Oh, some are null btw." this is the epitome of uselessness.
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On November 16 2011 22:14 prplhz wrote:
A lynch is a lynch, you can't just blame atmospheric noise or quantum mechanics when you vote on somebody who flips town. Can you tell me why a random lynch would be good for town as opposed to a no lynch?
I think Mr. Wiggles is the best lynch right now. He's actively been a lot more derpy than what should be expected from him. I'd like him to show up right now and start talking.
If it isn't obvious by now, random lynching is actually kinda awesome in extended majority games, because it creates such a fuckton of discussion, both about whether or not it should be done, and then after the dice has been rolled whether or not we will actually go with the random lynch person.
I suggest we try it at some point, but clearly this game won't be the game we try it on.
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Hey prl
On November 16 2011 07:09 prplhz wrote:
Yea hiro protagonist is scum
##Vote hiro protagonist
What happened to this?
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... no it will not because no townie in their right mind would vote for someone based on how the stars are aligned on this particular day, and scum would follow suit in saying that it's a shitty plan. Every time you talk about it you are just distracting people from the game, so I'm happy that you'll stop talking about it now.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Vote Count
Wherebugsgo (4)
Erandorr
Palmer
jaybrundage
hiro protagonist
hiro protagonist (3)
prplhz
Meapak_Ziphh
Wherebugsgo
Mr Wiggles and sandroba have not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in 12 and a half hours
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Also if you actually used your beautiful brain for a second then you would see that what I have done is in no way scummy. I activly made sure that everyone got that I still think Hiro is not in the green at all and even pointed that out to Sandro when I would have no reason to do so as Scum. That long post about Bugs was not very smart by me, but I wanted to make sure that no retarded bandwagon starts when it is not a certainty that Hiro is scum, like you or Bugs made it sound. Also you have not actually contributed very much to be honest. Why don't you explain how you came to the conclusion that Wiggles is the best lynch when you were certain that Hiro is scum?
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United States22154 Posts
On November 16 2011 22:24 prplhz wrote:
... no it will not because no townie in their right mind would vote for someone based on how the stars are aligned on this particular day.
Wait, there are other ways of choosing who to vote for?
O.O
/back to lurking and consulting astral charts to find scum.
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Making it sound like he's certainly scum is a pretty nice trick to put a ton of pressure on a scum. He doesn't know that we don't know it, it will put a lot of stress on him unless he can keep his head cool. Did I think that he was 100% scum? At that time I was very suspicious and I wanted to put more pressure on him. He handled it very badly but skimming over a couple of his past games, he always plays like this. It sucks, but it's his meta. Also, no one defended him.
How did you think you would prevent a bandwagon by going through wherebugsgo's analysis and then agreeing with half of it and sporadically interjecting "shut up"? If you don't think that hiro protagonist is in the green at all, then why don't you want people to bandwagon on him?
Mr. Wiggles is the best lynch because he should definitely know better. He's a veteran and then he comes up with an overly simplistic plan to catch dumb people? What the hell? And then he follows up by saying "Lol, I didn't catch any dumb people, afk" and disappears. This isn't good enough.
@hiro protagonist
If you could lynch one guy right now who would it be and why? Can you keep arguments inside this game please, no lynching wherebugsgo because he called somebody a retard in PYPI or something like that.
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I would love for Sandroba to elaborate on his scum-read on Meapak, because I'm not seeing it.
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Oh I forgot to answer your question Palmar. I think Wiggles is the best lynch right now.
##Vote Wiggles
Something no one else has done yet, even though it seems like a lot of people like him for the lynch today.
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On November 16 2011 22:42 prplhz wrote:
Making it sound like he's certainly scum is a pretty nice trick to put a ton of pressure on a scum. He doesn't know that we don't know it, it will put a lot of stress on him unless he can keep his head cool. Did I think that he was 100% scum? At that time I was very suspicious and I wanted to put more pressure on him. He handled it very badly but skimming over a couple of his past games, he always plays like this. It sucks, but it's his meta. Also, no one defended him.
How did you think you would prevent a bandwagon by going through wherebugsgo's analysis and then agreeing with half of it and sporadically interjecting "shut up"? If you don't think that hiro protagonist is in the green at all, then why don't you want people to bandwagon on him?
Mr. Wiggles is the best lynch because he should definitely know better. He's a veteran and then he comes up with an overly simplistic plan to catch dumb people? What the hell? And then he follows up by saying "Lol, I didn't catch any dumb people, afk" and disappears. This isn't good enough.
@hiro protagonist
If you could lynch one guy right now who would it be and why? Can you keep arguments inside this game please, no lynching wherebugsgo because he called somebody a retard in PYPI or something like that.
DId you just ask me why I don't want people to bandwagon someone I am not completely sure of , or bandwagon in general?
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yeah sure
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
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I forgot to
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
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@Erandorr
So you were not trying to defend hiro protagonist, you were just trying to prevent people from voting for him, even though you thought he was scummy. You did this by saying that you thought that he was pretty bad looking and by agreeing with half of a huge analysis on him. A big part of the rest of the analysis you tried to refute by saying "shut up". Can you see why this makes little sense to me? I can understand being against stupid bandwagons that forms 10 minutes before deadline, but this was 25 hours before deadline and the guy had 2 votes on him.
Why wasn't the long post on wherebugsgo very smart by you? I agree with this but I'd like to hear your opinion on it too.
Also
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
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On November 16 2011 23:44 prplhz wrote:
@Erandorr
So you were not trying to defend hiro protagonist, you were just trying to prevent people from voting for him, even though you thought he was scummy. You did this by saying that you thought that he was pretty bad looking and by agreeing with half of a huge analysis on him. A big part of the rest of the analysis you tried to refute by saying "shut up". Can you see why this makes little sense to me? I can understand being against stupid bandwagons that forms 10 minutes before deadline, but this was 25 hours before deadline and the guy had 2 votes on him.
Why wasn't the long post on wherebugsgo very smart by you? I agree with this but I'd like to hear your opinion on it too.
Also
##Unvote
##Vote Mr. Wiggles
Prplzh, don't be an Idiot please. I don't know if you are genuinly slow right now or deliberatly malicious. I wanted to point out the , to me, very obvious flaws in wbg analysis. It was a stupid thing to do because I did it more out of frustration instead of posting something that would be more helpful to town. The instances in which I said "shut up", which was twice should be very obvious to you because in those cases wbg is just being unbelievably agressive and doing that in a very stupid way. I have no idea what bugs you about that.
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Then why the hell are you claiming now that you did it to prevent a bandwagon? You had no reason to do this, and you weren't doing it, so that makes no sense to me.
Do you see what I am getting at?
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That you should not be taken seriously in a game of mafia?
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I am pending Wiggles's answer and explanation before I go on a full-on crusade against him. I suggest Erandorr is our backup lynch.
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Palmar could you do me a favor and write me a long nice post that explains why I should be lynched?
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I'm actually fine with a lynch of Wiggles over hiro if he continues to be useless. His first post was terrible and the one after it was pretty bad too. He's also incredibly inactive.
However Palmar, I'm not convinced Erandorr is a viable alternative. If he were scum it doesn't make sense for him to even soft defend hiro after pressuring him, unless they're both scum and he started out bybussing. That doesn't sound reasonable so I'm willing to bet it isn't true.
What do you see in Erandorr's play that makes him scummy?
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Also, I'ma lock my vote on hiro till I'm back from class. I should be here for the last 3 hours of the day, roughly. Till then I'll be gone.
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On November 16 2011 16:58 prplhz wrote:@Meapak_Ziphh What happened in between this post and this post that made you think that hiro protagonist was any more mafia, so much more that he suddenly deserved your vote? Why didn't you vote him in the first of those posts? @Mr. Wiggles Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
[...]
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. This really rubs me the wrong way. "Too bad no one was really dumb", are you trying to catch dumb people? "Most townies here are smart enough to know not to [answer your question]" why are you trying to catch dumb townies with your question and not scum? I don't understand this at all, please explain. Why are you trying to pose as "catching" scum with gimmicky shit like this, when you acknowledge yourself that it will most likely just "catch" dumb townies? @sandroba, Palmar lol™
Not to catch dumb townies, just to catch dumb scum who'd be happy to answer the question and look like they're "contributing", but that's not the only thing though. My post generated information for me, and a lot more information than "I'm going to vote for random player X" ever would. It was a catalyst to get people talking. Sure, it didn't catch dumb scum, but it told me about other people by how they reacted to it.
On November 16 2011 19:46 Palmar wrote:Wiggles is one of the people that look pretty scummy to me. His idea for creating discussion bears some resemblance (not materially, just the mindset it seems to be created in) to his EA plan in Cosmic Horror mafia. His posts are carefully constructed and notice that when he gives us his reads he doesn't actually put anyone up against the wall. It's all "we need to keep this in mind" or "x needs to be watched". Of particular interest is his piece on Wherebugsgo: Show nested quote +
Wherebugsgo:
This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
This is one of the weakest accusations I have ever seen, it's almost as if he's really not trying to step on any toes, while spreading around a ton of mistrust by detracting players. He has also conveniently completely skipped me and you, which is of particular interest because we've played so many games with him that I would think he'd look at our performance early. I guess he can hide behind our lack of content. But yeah, I would be fine with lynching Wiggles today.
I skipped you two, because I was talking about the people who posted reactions to my first post. You two weren't part of that. Also, my post was to look at how people were playing. None of them (Besides WBG a little) were acting overtly scummy, but they were acting in a way that seemed townie but had to be followed through with correctly in order to not just be scum trying to slip by.
Take Erandor and Meapak_Ziphh right now.
Erandorr was posting generic "townie advice", that is ok, but needs to be backed by actual analysis and thoughts on other players. So far, he hasn't really done that, besides defending hiro from WBG (Even though he thinks he's scummy, wth?). He's not actually giving us concrete information. You can't call someone town based on generic advice, even though he's stated that's his goal for the early game, to establish himself as town. This is exactly what I said he'd do as scum, because it's easy to post about being pro-town, and not easy to come up with good analysis.
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
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It's interesting that you go for Meapak_Ziphh. I'm not sure how to react to that, because while what you're saying is true, I still have a leaning town read on Meapak. This difference is probably because we put different value in his words. I really do think that he is actively pushing this lynch, but I'm willing to reconsider.
I still want to hear sandroba's thoughts on meapak.
I don't like your response in general, I wonder how you would have posted if we didn't put any pressure on you, because it looks like you're actually pushing a lynch now, but I'm trying to figure out how you're pushing it.
I guess I'll sit around a bit. I want more meapak and sandroba posts.
Actually, I also want more WBG posts.
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H/o I read Wiggles's post but I don't have time to respond adequately ATM.
Palmar if you'd like you can go ahead and ask me anything you'd like and I'll do my best to answer when I'm back.
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Vote Count
Wiggles (3)
Erandorr
Palmer
prplhz
wherebugsgo (2)
jaybrundage
hiro protagonist
hiro protagonist (2)
Meapak_Ziphh
Wherebugsgo
Meapak_Ziphh (1)
Mr Wiggles
sandroba has not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in about 9 hours
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On November 17 2011 01:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
H/o I read Wiggles's post but I don't have time to respond adequately ATM.
Palmar if you'd like you can go ahead and ask me anything you'd like and I'll do my best to answer when I'm back.
I have three questions, and hopefully you will be able to provide a good and detailed answer to each one.
a) What do you think of Wiggles, do you agree he is a good lynch for today?
b) What do you think of Meapak, he has very conflicting opinions about him.
c) Do you still think Hiro is the best lynch we have today?
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Well this is an interesting time for everyone to disappear ^.^
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I'm still around, for like 2-3 more hours until I need to sleep.
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So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
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tl;dr: Wiggles has acted scummy but hiro has acted waay scummier.
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Palmar and Erandorr where did you guys go?
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im reading the all the posts right now might take me a while still 3 pages behind
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Okay I read Wiggles last post and am actually still completely fine with lynching him.
Palmars surprise weirded me out a lot actually. He forced Wiggles into a position where he had to commit and then was surprised that he did exactly that? This feels a bit like he is distancing himself from that possible lynch already.
Oh and Palmar is either playing his XLIV Town(cause that one works out great) or scum. I am very surprised he is not pushing the lynch harder, it is so unlike town palmer. Just sitting around while town derps themself is kinda like Scum palmar though.
The thing with palmar is that he could be doing this as both Scum and town, which makes him very hard to read. Its possible that he is town and just provoking a ton of reactions with different accusations. His gameplay in this is once again completely focused around himself and not what is good for town in general. Thats what I hate about it and thats also what makes him so very hard to judge.
I need to sleep now, gotta get up in 7 hours. Eurotime excuse!
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On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
The Pressure has never left me. Im still on the chomping block as far as I know lol. Why make it sound like Im not? besides, I got to sleep/work as well, and now that thats done, here I am.
Im gonna re-read the thread and take my vote off WBG. Ill post some analysis in one sec. just wanted to address this first
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On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
jaybrundage:
Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point:
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mah bad still figuring this stuff out ill post with some content in a sec
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Wow what alot to catch up on so much got posted when i was gone sorry for being inactive for so long i slept about 12 hours so exhusted T_T and then had to go to work for another 9 hours.
Well as i see it we have to good votes for today hiro and Wiggles.
Everyone seemed to agree that hiro was acting very scummy. And that his votes had alot of scum tells honestly im not sure if i should recap and quote and stuff that he has said or if that would just be repeating what has been already
On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands.
Kinda doesnt make sense he gets attacked by meapak and then says your pushing mafia ideas while my read on meapak was that he was doing a good job trying to find mafia tells. and push leads.
On November 16 2011 08:06 hiro protagonist wrote:
I want to lynch Meapak. I would love to see more/any posts from Sandroba, Palmar, Wiggles, and WBG but there on my radar too. If you were not voting for me, who would you like to lynch?
I guess people said this was a big tell i guess it shows lack of commitment but maybe i dont see as much because im new
AS EVERYONE HAS POINTED OUT jeesh
On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
jaybrundage:
Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point:
I though it would be important to voice my opinion while i did agree with others everything i said was what i though as well lets be honest your first post was fluff i agreed on that because it was true it was baseless and useless. And as for wanting WBG to post ofc i voted for him i was hoping to elicit some response
On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro.
I find it interesting that you got a scum read on you not sure what you mean about "intusiastic about mafia" partly because its not a word :p and but even enthusiastic about mafia does make much sense to me. Can you extrapolate? I have tried to post with a bit more content my last one way back and this one.
And the reason i think Mr.Wiggles could be mafia is his first useless post and after he voted for Meapak who i think i got a good town read from. And his low post count shows hes not contributing much although we have to try to factor RL ofc On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
At this point i would be fine voting for Mr.Wiggles or Hiro Although im confused why people stopped voting for Hiro from what i got about people talking about his other games is he just bad at town (lol) I honestly would not be able to tell who is more mafia like. But i want to hear more about why Sandroba would not to vote hiro you said hes geniune and just not thinking his posts thru but the counter FOS on meapak that seemed rather off imo.
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On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
Sure thing. I'll leave out the hiro stuff though, because that's apparent.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 10:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Guys guys guys. Did I really just read palmar call for a lynch of a player who hasn't posted in the thread? And even worse, people are listening to him?
-_-
Are we stll pregame trolling? Call out Palmar On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Call out Palmar again. Threaten me with a lynch, and act aggressively towards Hiro some more. On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Call out WBG. On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. Call out me and Palmar again. Part of what to look at is not just that you're calling people out, but how you're doing it. It's not just saying that someone's inactive or that you think they're scummy, but taking a threatening tone towards them that makes it aggressive.
I'm guessing this is what you're referring to when you say "Hiro's case" against you:
On November 16 2011 06:42 hiro protagonist wrote:
Heres the thing Meapak, I was leading by example because I dont think that post is worthless. It would be worthless if that was my only post, or if it was made 2/3 into day 1, but thats not the case. perhaps we should agree to disagree ^_^
Heres my beef thou. You say that everyone is all ready against pointless argument and tunneling, but it happens in lots of games. I think it needs to be said because lots of towns have self imploded on day 1 with pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads. I want to avoid it now, so I said something preemptive.
To call me out and say Im scum because of that, As well as insinuate that what I said has no value, Is not townie thinking. Its scummy. FoS on Meapak.
Hiro calls you out here for what he perceives as promoting " pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads", and that's basically the thesis of his argument against you.
So, thanks for trying to misrepresent my argument which doesn't resemble what Hiro said at all; it just helps cement my read on you. I never said that you were scummy for acting aggressively like Hiro did, I said that you're scummy for how you acted after you were aggressive. Instead of continuing to aggressively pursue a lynch in the same way that you were calling out other players, you completely disappeared. This is scum calling out a bunch of people and making an early vote to look like he's contributing before dropping into the background.
When a townie picks someone out as scum, his job is to convince the rest of the town that it's so, or after discussion with them, re-evaluate his opinion (i.e. if the entire town calls him an idiot he should maybe look at his analysis again). MZ doesn't do this. He acts aggressively towards Hiro, calls him mafia, and then doesn't follow through with trying to get him lynched. He heaps suspicion onto him, but doesn't actively pursue the lynch after actually calling him out in the thread. Perfect scum behaviour for looking like he's actively scum-hunting when really the early vote gives him an excuse to sit on his hands for the next ~28 hours. Either Hiro doesn't get lynched, and it looks like he was contributing, or he does, but he doesn't take heat for the mislynch because he wasn't actively pushing the lynch. (assuming MZ is mafia and thus pushed a townie).
Also, he does a good job of not responding to anything that I said and just calling it "bad", that definitely addresses my concerns, lol.
I'm also liking Erandorr less and less:
On November 17 2011 07:26 Erandorr wrote:
Okay I read Wiggles last post and am actually still completely fine with lynching him.
Palmars surprise weirded me out a lot actually. He forced Wiggles into a position where he had to commit and then was surprised that he did exactly that? This feels a bit like he is distancing himself from that possible lynch already.
Oh and Palmar is either playing his XLIV Town(cause that one works out great) or scum. I am very surprised he is not pushing the lynch harder, it is so unlike town palmer. Just sitting around while town derps themself is kinda like Scum palmar though.
The thing with palmar is that he could be doing this as both Scum and town, which makes him very hard to read. Its possible that he is town and just provoking a ton of reactions with different accusations. His gameplay in this is once again completely focused around himself and not what is good for town in general. Thats what I hate about it and thats also what makes him so very hard to judge.
I need to sleep now, gotta get up in 7 hours. Eurotime excuse!
"Wiggles is suspicious of me? Better keep my vote on him then. Also, I think Palmar is acting like scum but also like not scum and here's a paragraph that says nothing. I'm also gonna AFK, ciao.".
Everything he's saying so far is super non-committal and tells us nothing. Even notice how he's voting for me, but looking through the filter, I don't see once where he actually calls me scum. All I see is:
"I would be okay with lynching Wiggles."
"I think Wiggles is the best lynch right now."
"Okay I read Wiggles last post and am actually still completely fine with lynching him."
I think that's the most non-committal posting I've ever seen. He doesn't call me scum and he doesn't say I'm scummy, just that he's "okay" and "fine" with lynching me. He's floating along with what other people have said without committing strongly to his position.
##FoS: Erandorr
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Between this post
On November 16 2011 17:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
@prphlz: I had to make the picture lol.
And this post
On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
I went to sleep then woke up and went to school. When I got out of class I made the next post. My posts before that were arguing with hiro. My posts since coming back have been calling for hiro's lynch. I really have no idea where this concept that somehow I'm not pushing for hiro's lynch came from. I've been probably the most vocal person against hiro. Please read the thread better. Also, after getting those posts together of me "going after people" you realized that all I was doing was calling for activity so you punted on that with this little gem: "Part of what to look at is not just that you're calling people out, but how you're doing it. It's not just saying that someone's inactive or that you think they're scummy, but taking a threatening tone towards them that makes it aggressive." threatening tone? Really? You just realized that you're wrong and that I actually wasn't wildly casting around like you made it sound so you punted.
Oh and everyone should be voting hiro, apparently I haven't made it apparent enough that he needs to die. If you need reasons please reread pages 6-8. A no lynch would be bad when we have an obvious scum.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 17 2011 08:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. Sure thing. I'll leave out the hiro stuff though, because that's apparent. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 10:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Guys guys guys. Did I really just read palmar call for a lynch of a player who hasn't posted in the thread? And even worse, people are listening to him?
-_-
Are we stll pregame trolling? Call out Palmar On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Call out Palmar again. Threaten me with a lynch, and act aggressively towards Hiro some more. On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Call out WBG. On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. Call out me and Palmar again. Part of what to look at is not just that you're calling people out, but how you're doing it. It's not just saying that someone's inactive or that you think they're scummy, but taking a threatening tone towards them that makes it aggressive. I'm guessing this is what you're referring to when you say "Hiro's case" against you: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:42 hiro protagonist wrote:
Heres the thing Meapak, I was leading by example because I dont think that post is worthless. It would be worthless if that was my only post, or if it was made 2/3 into day 1, but thats not the case. perhaps we should agree to disagree ^_^
Heres my beef thou. You say that everyone is all ready against pointless argument and tunneling, but it happens in lots of games. I think it needs to be said because lots of towns have self imploded on day 1 with pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads. I want to avoid it now, so I said something preemptive.
To call me out and say Im scum because of that, As well as insinuate that what I said has no value, Is not townie thinking. Its scummy. FoS on Meapak.
Hiro calls you out here for what he perceives as promoting " pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads", and that's basically the thesis of his argument against you. So, thanks for trying to misrepresent my argument which doesn't resemble what Hiro said at all; it just helps cement my read on you. I never said that you were scummy for acting aggressively like Hiro did, I said that you're scummy for how you acted after you were aggressive. Instead of continuing to aggressively pursue a lynch in the same way that you were calling out other players, you completely disappeared. This is scum calling out a bunch of people and making an early vote to look like he's contributing before dropping into the background.
I would hardly calling for activity calling some one out. Its funny that you say your self say[QUOTE]On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. and when meapak was talkign to palmar about lynching WBG about how he though it was trolling you call that calling out or aggressive i think meapak saw a lead on hiro and pursued it
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Ok, first off, Meapak:
This is his first game relevint post:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this:
On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.
His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this:
On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on.
now, on to wiggles:
so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length
+ Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell.
Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak:
Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this:
On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy?
So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles.
All the rest:
I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far.
Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch
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baa! forgot to spell check. oh, and
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
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Im curious how do i see peoples timestamps when they post with out quoting them its seems helpful
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And we need sandrobas vote asap
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On November 17 2011 09:00 jaybrundage wrote:
Im curious how do i see peoples timestamps when they post with out quoting them its seems helpful
Hit the 'Quote' button on the top right hand corner of there post, then copy/paste into your reply.
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Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
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Oh nevermind jay didn't vote wiggles, he said he would be fine voting him. Anyway I'm having a hard time tieing wiggles toghether with any other player.
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Jesus christ, this is the third time I'm saying it, but I was only posting about the people who responded to my first post in a substantial way. It wasn't a giant list meant to cover every player.
Next, Hiro, I did wait for MZ to post, and he didn't. There was no content, because he didn't form subsequent analysis, and instead started laying low. I was going to watch if he was going to actually push your lynch, or just keep pushing a bunch of other people. Instead, he disappeared which was scummy as well. He's still barely pushing you, even though he's saying he wants to lynch you. He's not doing anything to actually convince the town to vote for you, he's just saying "Go back and read", and that we should all change our votes. It's weak.
You guys are going to end up mislynching me for nothing I can try to convince you against when there's a highly likely scum candidate standing right in front of us who I found through actually looking at his behaviour.
Unbelievable. =/
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On November 17 2011 02:11 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 01:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
H/o I read Wiggles's post but I don't have time to respond adequately ATM.
Palmar if you'd like you can go ahead and ask me anything you'd like and I'll do my best to answer when I'm back. I have three questions, and hopefully you will be able to provide a good and detailed answer to each one. a) What do you think of Wiggles, do you agree he is a good lynch for today? b) What do you think of Meapak, he has very conflicting opinions about him. c) Do you still think Hiro is the best lynch we have today?
a.) Yeah I think he's a fine lynch. Like I said earlier, his first post was useless and I don't really agree with his case on Meapak. Erandorr too, but surprisingly some of Wiggles's points are valid, which gives me pause.
b) I lean town on Meapak. There isn't anything concrete and I admit there is no real objective reason to believe Meapak is town, but for me I think his behavior has made much more sense from a town perspective than a scum one. He's taken a lot of attention in the thread and he isn't afraid of reiterating his case on hiro repeatedly. I've only played with Meapak once and that was in PYP, which was a PM game, so other than the information we have here there really isn't anything to go on.
And by "he has very conflicting opinions on him" do you mean wiggles?
c) To be honest with you, I don't know. They're both good lynches. On the one hand, hiro has done nothing pro-town. On the other hand, he doesn't do anything as town either. The thing that is giving me most pause is that both you and sandro think he is town. I made the mistake in PYP of believing the town circle about Foolish, and I'm afraid to do that again here. And again, the other side to this is that I believe other townies for good reasons; I'm not always right and I'm not the best at telling apart bad townies from actual scum.
Sandro, for example, is probably much better (IMO) at telling apart bad townies from scum than I am.
Of course, if he's scum in this game then this whole argument is worthless and I'm an idiot.
For now I'm wary of how easy hiro is getting off from this lynch, and my gut takes preference. My vote stays on hiro.
I have a question for you though, Palmar. Do you find it weird, like I do, that neither of these targets has really been defended at all? Other than Erandorr doing some weird shit with my case on hiro and you and sandro thinking hiro is townish there has been no backlash over either of them.
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On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
damn sandro ninja
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Hmmm, I agree with you about MZ behavior Wiggles. But when you came back you FoSed Erandorr. Why did you not push harder on MZ if your sure he is scum?
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On November 17 2011 09:30 hiro protagonist wrote:
Hmmm, I agree with you about MZ behavior Wiggles. But when you came back you FoSed Erandorr. Why did you not push harder on MZ if your sure he is scum?
I am pushing him in every post I make, nearly. I think MZ is scum, but I'm suspicious of Erandorr as well, that's what the FoS is for and means. MZ is my main target, and after him I'm looking at Erandorr.
Does anyone else see anything in what I'm saying? I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall most of the time
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I'm off, good night.
feel free to hammer wiggles.
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Palmar can you respond before you leave?
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wait, what about what WBG asked you!
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yeah sure.
In a 2 scum game I wouldn't expect scum to ever come to the defense of their partner, especially when their partner gets called out by both myself and sandroba, unless there is very obvious evidence the accused is town, it'd be damn near suicide to try to defend. Better let the accused fend for himself.
Like I know I'd bus my partner so hard if he came under suspicion day 1.
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Vote Count
Wiggles (4)
Erandorr
Palmer
prplhz
hiro protagonist
wherebugsgo (1)
jaybrundage
hiro protagonist (2)
Meapak_Ziphh
Wherebugsgo
Meapak_Ziphh (1)
Mr Wiggles
sandroba has not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in about 1 hour
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Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted.
Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles?
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...
Alright, lets roll with this.
##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
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Jaybrundage why are you still voting me?
You said you're okay with lynching wiggles or hiro but your vote is on neither of them. Why are you showing so much indifference?
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Hiro, I want you dead. But my second choice was Wiggles so I'm not unhappy with this lynch. Just so you know hiro, Wiggle's flip won't change my mind on you, although your recent behavior has done you some good in that regards. You just made a good point that, besides from Palmar WBG and I, most people have been hesitant sharing their thoughts or committing to a lynch.
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@wherebugsgo
Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote.
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Wow, are you all actually going to go for a day 1 mislynch?
Can anyone even tell me why they're voting for me? (And if you say my first post I'm going to be mad at you)
I want to convince you guys that I'm town, and I'm trying to get you to vote for scum (Meapak), but you aren't giving me anything to argue against to change your minds.
This is stupid. -_-
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i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority
so
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles
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##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles
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On November 17 2011 10:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, are you all actually going to go for a day 1 mislynch?
Can anyone even tell me why they're voting for me? (And if you say my first post I'm going to be mad at you)
I want to convince you guys that I'm town, and I'm trying to get you to vote for scum (Meapak), but you aren't giving me anything to argue against to change your minds.
This is stupid. -_-
You only chose to contribute to the game very late. Your initial plan for getting information, while not terrible, is something I would never expect someone as town to do, all you had to do was to build a case and run with it, but you chose the passive route over the active one.
I don't agree with you at the moment about MZ, I do kinda share your thoughts about Errandor, but that's an issue for later.
Your first post containing anything of value was only forced out of you after a wagon being established against you. Maybe you just had unfortunate timing, but nothing in that post did much to make me consider you being town.
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Im curious why sandroba thinks that im mafia plz explain you say it and give no valid reason
On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
Plz explain
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On November 17 2011 10:08 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo
Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote.
His points on Erandorr make sense. Unlike Palmar, he provided some decent reasoning as to why he suspects Erandorr. IIRC Palmar didn't really expound on why Erandorr is scummy, even when Erandorr asked him to. Also, Wiggles didn't really post anything of value after I said that. My vote switch wasn't necessary, and I didn't like how hiro came in with this:
On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote:Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Show nested quote +Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch
Pray tell, what in this post actually says anything?
Other than that I just think hiro is a better lynch than Wiggles. Wiggles isn't a bad lynch, and like Meapak I'm fine with him dying. It's just weird to me that no one is defending Wiggles at all. Unlike Palmar, I don't believe scum would just autobus in a 2 scum game, particularly day 1.
I mean think about it, one dead is half the scumteam gone. On day 1 that's a huge loss, because in this setup that means you have to play the rest of the game by yourself and struggle to catch up. Last game I was in that position, basically, since my other half was sick (<3 Radfield) and Kurumi/RoL were really inactive. Wiggles has received no defense at all and that's incredibly strange.
However, while I was typing this post jaybrundage posted this:
On November 17 2011 10:10 jaybrundage wrote:
i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority
so
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles
He chose to wait all day until it was ensured that Wiggles was dying, then posted this. He has had no influence on today at all.
This vote is meaningless since Wiggles already achieved majority.
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On November 17 2011 10:14 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, are you all actually going to go for a day 1 mislynch?
Can anyone even tell me why they're voting for me? (And if you say my first post I'm going to be mad at you)
I want to convince you guys that I'm town, and I'm trying to get you to vote for scum (Meapak), but you aren't giving me anything to argue against to change your minds.
This is stupid. -_- You only chose to contribute to the game very late. Your initial plan for getting information, while not terrible, is something I would never expect someone as town to do, all you had to do was to build a case and run with it, but you chose the passive route over the active one. I don't agree with you at the moment about MZ, I do kinda share your thoughts about Errandor, but that's an issue for later. Your first post containing anything of value was only forced out of you after a wagon being established against you. Maybe you just had unfortunate timing, but nothing in that post did much to make me consider you being town.
It wasn't forced out of me though, I was just being pressured so I posted what I was going to anyways in response to you guys. I posted during pretty much all the time periods I had available to me (Breakfast, Lunch, After school). Instead of forming a case around (what I believed) to be pretty bad information at that point, I decided to procure more information and go from there. It actually told me something useful about Meapak and Erandorr too, and I think it was a ton more valuable than the floundering from before. I couldn't draw anything from that.
I feel like a lot of people are voting me just to avoid no-lynch, and because they're "fine with it", as they're not bothering to look at other people themselves. Besides me arguing against Meapak, and him pushing Hiro a little, this lynch is pretty much characterized by complacency.It's going over way too easily, and I don't get why no one sees this.
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Vote Count
Wiggles (6)
Erandorr
Palmer
prplhz
hiro protagonist
jaybrundage
sandroba
hiro protagonist (2)
Meapak_Ziphh
Wherebugsgo
Meapak_Ziphh (1)
Mr Wiggles
Currently Mr Wiggles to be lynched
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in about half an hour
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@Wiggles There is not much you can say that will change my mind tbh. Reading all your posts they come off to me as fabricated and convinient, not actually a genuine thought process of a townie trying to find scum. The only thing that actually bothers me is the lack of resistance against your lynch, but it's indeed possible that you have a non influential player as your partner. You raise a few good points on MZ, but the evidence is kinda of thin imo and it seems like you are streching it to save your own ass. The same with errandor.
The fact that you chose these 2 to acuse seems extremelly convinient to me when the main people calling you out are suspicious of one or the other. It seems you are specifically trying to alter our reads towards you, not actually trying to find scum on our own, and this only makes sense if you are scum yourself.
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On November 17 2011 10:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:14 Palmar wrote:On November 17 2011 10:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, are you all actually going to go for a day 1 mislynch?
Can anyone even tell me why they're voting for me? (And if you say my first post I'm going to be mad at you)
I want to convince you guys that I'm town, and I'm trying to get you to vote for scum (Meapak), but you aren't giving me anything to argue against to change your minds.
This is stupid. -_- You only chose to contribute to the game very late. Your initial plan for getting information, while not terrible, is something I would never expect someone as town to do, all you had to do was to build a case and run with it, but you chose the passive route over the active one. I don't agree with you at the moment about MZ, I do kinda share your thoughts about Errandor, but that's an issue for later. Your first post containing anything of value was only forced out of you after a wagon being established against you. Maybe you just had unfortunate timing, but nothing in that post did much to make me consider you being town. It wasn't forced out of me though, I was just being pressured so I posted what I was going to anyways in response to you guys. I posted during pretty much all the time periods I had available to me (Breakfast, Lunch, After school). Instead of forming a case around (what I believed) to be pretty bad information at that point, I decided to procure more information and go from there. It actually told me something useful about Meapak and Erandorr too, and I think it was a ton more valuable than the floundering from before. I couldn't draw anything from that. I feel like a lot of people are voting me just to avoid no-lynch, and because they're "fine with it", as they're not bothering to look at other people themselves. Besides me arguing against Meapak, and him pushing Hiro a little, this lynch is pretty much characterized by complacency.It's going over way too easily, and I don't get why no one sees this.
Of course we see how easy the vote is, we're not retarded. That doesn't change the fact that having good reads is not the entire key to playing town, you also have to look town. Something I'm not seeing from you.
However, I do know you're a smart player, so in case I am wrong about you, can you please do your best and post all the reads, thoughts and information you have just before the deadline. Having your reads could be valuable later on.
Preferably you comment on everyone in the game, so we can at least understand what you were thinking on day 1.
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Day 1 - Crushing Pressure
The town was out for blood. And blood it got. Dragged screaming and struggling from his house in the middle of the night, Mr Wiggles was black bagged and his hands and feet were bound by thin steel wires. This was so that he would bleed as he struggled and they dug into his skin.
After what felt like an eternity, he awoke and found himself tied down to a cold hard operating table and completely naked. Hooded figures gathered around him and muttered under their breath "Guilty! Guilty!". Throwing his head back, he noticed a man who was in a compeltely white robe. In his hand, he held a scapel. In a quick movement however, the scapel made a longitudinal incision between his bottom most ribs all the way down to his upper abdomin. Using a separator, his abdomin was then pushed apart. Mr Wiggles screamed the whole time. Finally, after completely opening up his abdominal cavity, a large clamp was placed around both his kidneys and his pancreas. Connected to a machine they slowly increased their pressure on his organs until finally his right kidney burst, and then his left. Mr Wiggles' screams filled the room, never ending. Finally, his pancreas was crushed in an explosion of blood and his screams were no more. He had bleed out red.
Mr Wiggles the Mafia Goon is dead
Night 1 Starts and will end in 24 hours.
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nice.
with this flip I think we need to look at jay carefully tomorrow.
Hiro's probably still a good bet but I think jay looks worse now.
Everyone go back and read with this flip in mind!
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Rofl man, voting wiggles never dissapoints.
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I need to roll town, lol. GGzzz~~~~
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Creepiest night post ever.
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Wtf chaoser, that's some gross shit.
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On November 13 2011 01:37 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 01:23 Radfield wrote:
OK, we're filled up. Meapak asked if we could wait till Monday to start, so I'll check with him and see what works. Once roles go out the game has begun.
Chaoser will be co-hosting this game, so make sure you send a copy of your night actions to him, as he will be making the night and day posts on Fridays and Saturdays. It's important that you send your night actions to both of us each night though, not just on those days.
Deadline will always be at 9PM EST. You will all die horribly morbid overly detailed deaths.
Don't say I didn't warn you all
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Ha! My pregame prediction came true:
On November 13 2011 17:46 hiro protagonist wrote:I shall be voting for Wiggles first, Seeing as every game we have played together, we never had the same alignment. I see no reason why this game will be any different
Thats like, 6 games in a row now
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Also, chaoser, your like a doctor or something right?I dont know if I would ever want to seek Medical attention from you now 0_0
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Ok so going on the assumption that a scum wouldn't bus another scum day one we have: Palmar, Sandroba, Erandorr, and prplhz as town (best part is I had town reads on all of them anyway :D). I know I'm town and I'm fairly certain jaybrundage is town for the simple reason that it would be terrible balance wise to put a complete noob as mafia in a mini (plus he hasn't done anything more stupid then nomal for a noob so I feel fine with him).
That leaves us with WBG and hiro protagonist as mafia. I think we all know who's gonna be my suspect out of that combo. I also reread hiro's posts for any mention of Wiggles and there are a few that I'll talk about tomorrow when I'm on my comp (the one that most caught my attention was in hiro's summary post where he talked about how he felt on each player).
Day 2 win looking possible here folks.
Night everyone.
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Meapak I don't think you should disregard Jay so easily. Balance considerations might be very useful in larger games, but I don't think we should make unnecessary assumptions here about game setup to ignore potential scum candidates.
If we use the assumption that scum don't bus then we should look at jay.
Meapak why do you think we should consider hiro if we think that scum wouldn't bus? Hiro was the fourth vote on wiggles. Do you think that, if hiro+wiggles were scum and they knew the lynch would come between them, then hiro pushed Wiggles later? Because wiggles was goon? It's a possibility I suppose, but I don't understand why you would say hiro should be a consideration under the assumption that scum wouldn't bus another scum. If you hold that to be true then from your perspective the focus is on me and jay, and probably not hiro. Jay came in and voted Wiggles when it was irrelevant. You and I never voted him.
At this point though, I understand why Palmar would say scum would be more likely to bus in this situation. If we subscribe to that notion then the scum is among the rest of the remaining players.
At any rate I think this game is locked in. We shouldn't be cocky though, it certainly is still possible we can lose.
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also chaoser isn't a doctor, he's secretly a brutal serial killer!
+ Show Spoiler +
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I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum.
This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage.
jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT.
This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh.
I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr.
This leaves wherebugsgo.
I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum.
- He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr".
- He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum.
- He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post.
I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum.
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EBWOP: ... I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would not have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumybuddy. ...
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Lol no that was actually right in the first place ... my brain just short circuited, sorry about that.
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It's ok, Imma lynch you tomorrow
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sure.
It's not a stretch to think you hard-bussed wiggles immediately.
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You are being surprisingly obtuse.
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On November 17 2011 18:52 prplhz wrote:
I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum.
This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage.
jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT.
This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh.
I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr.
This leaves wherebugsgo.
I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum.
- He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr".
- He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum.
- He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post.
I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum.
1. Didn't hammer Wiggles cause I thought hiro was the better lynch.
2. Hiro/Jay are not easy targets, and I am actually not suggesting we pursue hiro. Did you not read my last post where I asked Meapak why he's ignoring the fact that hiro was one of the votes on Wiggles?
3. What?
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NIGHT ENDS IN 6 AND A HALF HOURS
SEND IN YOUR ACTIONS TO BOTH ME AND RADFIELD
CAUSE I CAN (I wasn't yelling lol, just capping ftw)
HUSH YOU! DO YOU DESIRE A MORBID DEATH AS WELL?!
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On November 18 2011 04:24 chaoser wrote:
DAY ENDS IN 6 and a HALF HOURS
SEND IN YOUR ACTIONS TO BOTH ME AND RADFIELD
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?
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I thought it was night chaoser, lol
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lol, that death scene was disgusting btw, job well done.
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I still think hiro would be a solid candidate for next lynch also notice that Mr.Wiggles never mentioned hiro as a candidate for scum
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you're so cute I just wanna hug you
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just ignore the things ive a said during the night.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 2
Alas, we cannot all make it through the night.
Today we must say goodbye to Palmar, and wish him well in all his future endeavors.
Palmar, Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
Goodbye friend. Goodbye.
With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch. Day ends in 48 hours at 02:00 GMT (+00:00) on Saturday the 19th.
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Alright how do people feel about lynching wherebugsgo?
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Night 1 - The Classic/클래식
The sun went down and the town went back to their houses, content with the results of the day. They had killed a mafia member! Yay! They felt good watching him die his painful death!
One person in particular was a a little too high in spirits. Palmer, to celebrate, went to the local bar and got drunk. Too drunk. Stumbling home, he started to blackout...
Waking up, he noticed he was tied up at the exact same place as Mr Wiggles had been that afternoon. An eye for an eye Mr Palmer, he heard someone say to him though he couldn't tell from where. Before he knew it, he had been lifted up into the air by rope bond to his arms and his legs were spread a part over a rusty rake.
His rectum suffered severe trauma and he bled out due to the rake punctuating his intestines.
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##Vote wherebugsgo
I feel kinda good about it.
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On November 18 2011 11:26 prplhz wrote:
##Vote wherebugsgo
I feel kinda good about it.
I don't ^^
I still think Jay is the best bet. What do y'all think?
##vote Jaybrundage
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Where'd sandroba go? It feels like he's been very absent this game.
Anyway I really dont like WBG's vote on jay. It feels way to convenient. I've seen the scenarios that people suggested and I agree that hiro is actually cleared more by them than WBG. With this in mind along with WBG's vote for jay, I'm going to go back and take a look at him.
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Also if you were RB'd time to claim. Remember, only mafia knows who they RB'd so in this game if some claims RB with no CC it's like a free dt check.
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On November 18 2011 15:19 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also if you were RB'd time to claim. Remember, only mafia knows who they RB'd so in this game if some claims RB with no CC it's like a free dt check.
Derp, remaining scum can just not have role blocked and then claim role blocked himself.
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Jailkeeper roleblocks too -_-
also
Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked?
A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results.
So we should treat any roleblock claims as liars unless they claim cop as well.
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I'm here, I'm pondering which is the best lynch for today. I'll post when I've convinced myself on who to lynch. Wbg doesn't seem scum to me this game. Jay is a possibility, but I'm nowhere near confident on him.
Based on Wiggles posts hiro is a strong possibility since he never mentions him and instead of going for him (which was the best option since a lot of people were suspicious of him) when his ass was on the line, he goes for errandor/mz. Kinda peculiar choice in that situation if hiro was not scum with him. This however goes against my previous read on hiro and he did vote for wiggles on his own, but well sometimes I'm wrong =/.
That being said I don't feel like mafia is ever going to get rid of jay for us, and I don't feel I'm going to get a better read on him any time soon. I'd be fine lynching him today until more information comes in.
##Vote: Jaybrundage
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Derp I'm stupid -_-... would have been kinda game breaking though if that's how it worked lol.
Anyway WBG I reread your posts and honestly I think you're town. You saw the same things I did and called it out like I did. I just however am not seeing how jay is a better lynch than hiro.
I'm tired, I'll come back tomorrow and look things over again.
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Just to let you know, Im gonna be AWOL for the next 12 hours. When I get back Ill re-read the thread and put in my thoughts.
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K I've reflected a bit and I think MZ/jay and maybe hiro (not very likely) are the only people that may be scum. Most likely MZ, but I'm kinda lazy to explain why. If hiro and jay could give their opinions on who they think the last scum is it would be great.
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WBG I think is town because he didn't attack my credibility even though he could have easily done so and get away with it since I've posted very little in the first 24 hours.
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On November 18 2011 20:10 sandroba wrote:
WBG I think is town because he didn't attack my credibility even though he could have easily done so and get away with it since I've posted very little in the first 24 hours.
you have to explain that one to me.
Oh and I am heading back to university and will post my thoughts in a couple of hours
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This thread needs some life.
Erandorr you here? I would like to hear those thoughts of yours.
Sandro please explain about Meapak.
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1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh
5.Erandorr
6.prplhz
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba
1 of 2 MAFIA remaining:
6 of 7 TOWN remaining:
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You mean I should follow up when I say that I will pst something in a couple of hours ?
Well shit I don't have time now.
Just my thoughts in a quick version : I don't know why prplzh has gotten no shit for what he has done this game. The only positive thing he did in my eyes was calling out Wiggles on his own for his bullshit. I would like to hear peoples thoughts on that.
I will probably write out everything I noticed tomorrow, but I still encourage everyone to take a look at him and tell me what you think.
I don't think Jay has anything to offer for town and has done some questionable things that are scummy even while factoring in that he is very new. If we have some powerroles I think he would make an excellent check/jailthingy.
Oh and I would like to know who thinks Hiro still makes a good target, that would be quite neat ^.^
Meapak deserves some thought too.. you know.. eventually. Tunneling a weak player is a pretty convenient way to hide as scum , but the problem is that he had a valid point going after Hiro. Plus he actually soft defended Wiggles and specificly said that he would rather go after Hiro than wiggles. That would be very brave scum play. zz I don't know its possible I guess but he should just post his thoughts as soon as possible.
And thats all the time I have on a friday night. Also WBG gets mayor points for trying to keep the thread alive. Thats not in the interest of scum.
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Ok so apparently i have two votes on me for the next lynch D:
While i would love to have some concrete reasons about why people think im the mafia like i asked for here
On November 16 2011 06:42 hiro protagonist wrote:
Heres the thing Meapak, I was leading by example because I dont think that post is worthless. It would be worthless if that was my only post, or if it was made 2/3 into day 1, but thats not the case. perhaps we should agree to disagree ^_^
Heres my beef thou. You say that everyone is all ready against pointless argument and tunneling, but it happens in lots of games. I think it needs to be said because lots of towns have self imploded on day 1 with pointless tunneling and reckless arguing and spam, resulting in a mislynch and bad reads. I want to avoid it now, so I said something preemptive.
To call me out and say Im scum because of that, As well as insinuate that what I said has no value, Is not townie thinking. Its scummy. FoS on Meapak.
Here we see hiro claiming Fos on Meapak. And then later On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
Mr.Wiggles does the same thing it seems pretty obvious to me that they were trying to both go for the same target.
However after it didnt work out Hiro backed out and bussed Mr.Wiggles to save face. With both me and Sandroba voting very late in the game it would have been irrelevant if hiro voted for Mr.Wiggles or not as we had a above the majority anyway. I was waiting to see if we were voting for Hiro or Mr.Wiggles and Sandroba ended up voting very late in the game.
So i think this paints Meapak_Ziphh as a townie and Errandor as well as Mr.Wiggles also went after him
On November 17 2011 08:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote:"Wiggles is suspicious of me? Better keep my vote on him then. Also, I think Palmar is acting like scum but also like not scum and here's a paragraph that says nothing. I'm also gonna AFK, ciao.".
Everything he's saying so far is super non-committal and tells us nothing. Even notice how he's voting for me, but looking through the filter, I don't see once where he actually calls me scum. All I see is:
"I would be okay with lynching Wiggles."
"I think Wiggles is the best lynch right now."
"Okay I read Wiggles last post and am actually still completely fine with lynching him."
I think that's the most non-committal posting I've ever seen. He doesn't call me scum and he doesn't say I'm scummy, just that he's "okay" and "fine" with lynching me. He's floating along with what other people have said without committing strongly to his position.
##FoS: Erandorr
Also Mr.Wiggles called out Palmar as scum. But he's no longer with us
Rest in Peace.
Also keep in mind that Mr.Wiggles while not straight up calling me scum did
On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
jaybrundage:
Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point:
He would only try to call me out as trying to "blend in" if he knows im town and wants to make me look scummy.
Keep in mind heres a main point not once did Mr.Wiggles call Hiro Scummy, However this is what i think is the twist neither did he ever call out Sandroba. Something to think about.
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fuck i hate messing up quotes
CONTROL URGE TO EDIT, CONTROL URGE TO EDDDDITTTTTT!
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haha you are doing better than me in that regard xD
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And one more think i did call out Mr.Wiggles on his no content first post I really wish someone would explain to me why they think im scummy : (
On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what?
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On November 18 2011 15:55 sandroba wrote:
I don't feel like mafia is ever going to get rid of jay for us,
I feel unloved : (
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On November 19 2011 06:50 jaybrundage wrote:And one more think i did call out Mr.Wiggles on his no content first post I really wish someone would explain to me why they think im scummy : ( Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what?
problem is, everyone did that. Lol.
Everyone who is in this game needs to post their thoughts. As I've said already, I think jay is probably our best bet still, but no one really has commented on anything, besides the post Erandorr made a little while ago.
Sadly there's very little to discuss right now because everyone is gone. I can't talk to myself ^^ I don't want to be pursuing the wrong person today.
Sandro I'd still like to hear from you about Meapak, and it would be good to see Meapak's thoughts as well.
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Well the activity level is disapointing.
Alright I'm going to vote WBG and here's why. I'll address the white elephant in the room. WBG and I are the two people who wanted to lynch hiro over Wiggles. I know that jaybrundage didn't as well but I just don't see him as scum. Wiggles flipped scum which obviously casts tons of suspicion on WBG and I. I know I'm town, the reason I thought WBG was town as well was because he called out the same things I saw in hiro and was generally playing what I considered townie. In hindsight that's because WBG has had some very similar reads as myself so I just assumed he'd be town if he was seeing things I saw.
I reread WBG’s posts again and found that he soft defends Wiggles in much the same way I did, in particular this post:
On November 17 2011 09:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
a.) Yeah I think he's a fine lynch. Like I said earlier, his first post was useless and I don't really agree with his case on Meapak. Erandorr too, but surprisingly some of Wiggles's points are valid, which gives me pause.
Let’s take a look at this post. WBG has now said twice that Wiggles is a good lynch. His reasons are that his first post was useless (generic) and that he doesn’t agree with his case on my. Now this comes up several times, WBG defends me. This felt strange to me at the time however, after thinking about it, it makes sense from a scum perspective. Day one I was the only person with an alternative lynch candidate to hiro, the more people I have subtly defending me the more credibility I gain and thus my lynch gains. At the end of this post WBG throws in the little tidbit that “surprisingly some of Wiggle’s points are valid which gives me pause.” This is a great way for a scum to again, subtly change the conversation. He’s again giving someone credit (Wiggles) while at the same time drawing another name into the conversation (Erandorr, who’s been mentioned before by Palmar so it’s possible that this lynch could take off).
Now here’s another post after Wiggles has achieved majority but before the end of the day:
On November 17 2011 10:22 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:08 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo
Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote. His points on Erandorr make sense. Unlike Palmar, he provided some decent reasoning as to why he suspects Erandorr. IIRC Palmar didn't really expound on why Erandorr is scummy, even when Erandorr asked him to. Also, Wiggles didn't really post anything of value after I said that. My vote switch wasn't necessary, and I didn't like how hiro came in with this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote:Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch Pray tell, what in this post actually says anything? Other than that I just think hiro is a better lynch than Wiggles. Wiggles isn't a bad lynch, and like Meapak I'm fine with him dying. It's just weird to me that no one is defending Wiggles at all. Unlike Palmar, I don't believe scum would just autobus in a 2 scum game, particularly day 1. I mean think about it, one dead is half the scumteam gone. On day 1 that's a huge loss, because in this setup that means you have to play the rest of the game by yourself and struggle to catch up. Last game I was in that position, basically, since my other half was sick (<3 Radfield) and Kurumi/RoL were really inactive. Wiggles has received no defense at all and that's incredibly strange. However, while I was typing this post jaybrundage posted this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:10 jaybrundage wrote:
i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority
so
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles He chose to wait all day until it was ensured that Wiggles was dying, then posted this. He has had no influence on today at all. This vote is meaningless since Wiggles already achieved majority.
First he takes time to ever so delicately defend Wiggles while at the same time justifying his vote for hiro. Then he once again calls out hiro and restates that hiro is a better lynch and sows more doubt about the Wiggles lynch. He also ends this post attacking jaybrundage. Now I agree that jay’s vote is absolutely terrible, however if WBG is scum he gains two things out of attacking that post. Not only does he look protown by calling out bullshit, he also sets himself up for day 2 when people are going to be milling around for a target. Jaybrundage is a SUPER easy lynch for that vote and his poor play on day one, WBG is setting the lynch up here.
On November 17 2011 11:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
nice.
with this flip I think we need to look at jay carefully tomorrow.
Hiro's probably still a good bet but I think jay looks worse now.
Everyone go back and read with this flip in mind!
Boom more anti jay posting. This brings his earlier post back into mind. If he’s scum, he knows the flip and can start pressuring Jay before the flip essentially. With the flip he can now begin calling for jay’s death a lot more strongly.
On November 18 2011 03:01 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 18:52 prplhz wrote:
I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum.
This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage.
jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT.
This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh.
I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr.
This leaves wherebugsgo.
I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum.
- He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr".
- He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum.
- He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post.
I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum. 1. Didn't hammer Wiggles cause I thought hiro was the better lynch. 2. Hiro/Jay are not easy targets, and I am actually not suggesting we pursue hiro. Did you not read my last post where I asked Meapak why he's ignoring the fact that hiro was one of the votes on Wiggles? 3. What?
These are his response to prphlz’s points. Regarding his second point, hiro was the easy target day one, when he and I were arguing hiro slipped and slipped and slipped. Going after him is easy and gives you cheap town credit. Now on day two Jay is an easy target as well for his poor play and late vote on wiggles. If we assume that scum wouldn’t bus scum day one, then that really leaves WBG, jay, and I. Each of us has a very limited number of targets to choose from to advocate a lynch today. Undoubtedly though, jay is the easiest lynch for WBG to push.
Now I understand that it's just as easy for WBG to make a similar case against me. Thus if the town decides to lynch me today I'd understand that and tbh I'd be fine with it as long as WBG is lynched tomorrow.
tl;dr: WBG is scum. He pushed the easy target day one and soft defended Wiggles throughout, he set himself up to go after jay today, another easy target. He's actually the only player fully soft defend wiggles (the only thing I ever said was that hiro was a better lynch, I never said I actually agreed with some of Wiggle's points).
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woa shit happened while I wrote that, and don't worry, I'm gonna vote WBG I just need to find a picture.
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bah
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3Qsuq.jpg)
I got lazy
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
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Nah Meapak, I'm not scum.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Well the activity level is disapointing.
Alright I'm going to vote WBG and here's why. I'll address the white elephant in the room. WBG and I are the two people who wanted to lynch hiro over Wiggles. I know that jaybrundage didn't as well but I just don't see him as scum. Wiggles flipped scum which obviously casts tons of suspicion on WBG and I. I know I'm town, the reason I thought WBG was town as well was because he called out the same things I saw in hiro and was generally playing what I considered townie. In hindsight that's because WBG has had some very similar reads as myself so I just assumed he'd be town if he was seeing things I saw.
Okay, so right off the bat I can tell you probably don't know my scum play very well, since as scum I tend to push suspicions very hard. When situations like this occur, I jump all over them and waste no time in accusing the people with no thread presence. Also, as scum I'm not afraid of starting a fight. In that case why wouldn't I immediately turn on you, since the logical conclusion, as you state, is for the suspicion to fall on me and you?
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I reread WBG’s posts again and found that he soft defends Wiggles in much the same way I did, in particular this post: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
a.) Yeah I think he's a fine lynch. Like I said earlier, his first post was useless and I don't really agree with his case on Meapak. Erandorr too, but surprisingly some of Wiggles's points are valid, which gives me pause.
Let’s take a look at this post. WBG has now said twice that Wiggles is a good lynch. His reasons are that his first post was useless (generic) and that he doesn’t agree with his case on my. Now this comes up several times, WBG defends me. This felt strange to me at the time however, after thinking about it, it makes sense from a scum perspective. Day one I was the only person with an alternative lynch candidate to hiro, the more people I have subtly defending me the more credibility I gain and thus my lynch gains. At the end of this post WBG throws in the little tidbit that “surprisingly some of Wiggle’s points are valid which gives me pause.” This is a great way for a scum to again, subtly change the conversation. He’s again giving someone credit (Wiggles) while at the same time drawing another name into the conversation (Erandorr, who’s been mentioned before by Palmar so it’s possible that this lynch could take off).
How does it make sense from a scum perspective? I gain nothing from defending you. I defended you against a case I thought was dumb. It had no merit, that's all. Occam's Razor.
Lastly, if I was trying to give Wiggles credit and then trying to draw Erandorr into the lynch conversation, why is it that I have not pushed Erandorr to be lynched? I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Now here’s another post after Wiggles has achieved majority but before the end of the day: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 10:22 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 17 2011 10:08 prplhz wrote:
@wherebugsgo
Which of Mr. Wiggles points give you so much pause that you will not vote him over hiro protagonist even though most other people agree that hiro protagonist probably isn't scum? You said in a post that you were ready to switch to Mr. Wiggles over hiro protagonist unless Mr. Wiggles posted something of value, but you never said what exactly you thought Mr. Wiggles posted that convinced you not to switch your vote. His points on Erandorr make sense. Unlike Palmar, he provided some decent reasoning as to why he suspects Erandorr. IIRC Palmar didn't really expound on why Erandorr is scummy, even when Erandorr asked him to. Also, Wiggles didn't really post anything of value after I said that. My vote switch wasn't necessary, and I didn't like how hiro came in with this: On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote:Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch Pray tell, what in this post actually says anything? Other than that I just think hiro is a better lynch than Wiggles. Wiggles isn't a bad lynch, and like Meapak I'm fine with him dying. It's just weird to me that no one is defending Wiggles at all. Unlike Palmar, I don't believe scum would just autobus in a 2 scum game, particularly day 1. I mean think about it, one dead is half the scumteam gone. On day 1 that's a huge loss, because in this setup that means you have to play the rest of the game by yourself and struggle to catch up. Last game I was in that position, basically, since my other half was sick (<3 Radfield) and Kurumi/RoL were really inactive. Wiggles has received no defense at all and that's incredibly strange. However, while I was typing this post jaybrundage posted this: On November 17 2011 10:10 jaybrundage wrote:
i was waiting for who it was decided we would vote for we were gonna vote i dont want to vote hiro for instance and then we cant reach a majority
so
##Unvote
##Vote Mr.Wiggles He chose to wait all day until it was ensured that Wiggles was dying, then posted this. He has had no influence on today at all. This vote is meaningless since Wiggles already achieved majority. First he takes time to ever so delicately defend Wiggles while at the same time justifying his vote for hiro. Then he once again calls out hiro and restates that hiro is a better lynch and sows more doubt about the Wiggles lynch. He also ends this post attacking jaybrundage. Now I agree that jay’s vote is absolutely terrible, however if WBG is scum he gains two things out of attacking that post. Not only does he look protown by calling out bullshit, he also sets himself up for day 2 when people are going to be milling around for a target. Jaybrundage is a SUPER easy lynch for that vote and his poor play on day one, WBG is setting the lynch up here.
Again, Occam's Razor. I was responding to prpl, that's why I clarified my stance on Wiggles and justified my vote for hiro. And yes, of course I would sow doubt about the wiggles lynch and reinstate that hiro was better, when I genuinely thought that. There is no scum agenda here, just my own thoughts.
Lastly, I attacked jaybrundage because no one else seemed to notice what he did. Despite him being a noob, if he said hiro/wiggles were fine lynches all day then why did he keep his vote on me till AFTER wiggles was hammered? He essentially abstained yesterday. Again, you're stretching to call me scum.
On November 19 2011 07:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 11:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
nice.
with this flip I think we need to look at jay carefully tomorrow.
Hiro's probably still a good bet but I think jay looks worse now.
Everyone go back and read with this flip in mind! Boom more anti jay posting. This brings his earlier post back into mind. If he’s scum, he knows the flip and can start pressuring Jay before the flip essentially. With the flip he can now begin calling for jay’s death a lot more strongly. Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 03:01 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 17 2011 18:52 prplhz wrote:
I don't think that any of the first 5 people voting for Mr. Wiggles yesterday is scum. You just get too far behind if you start out by bussing your teammate, 1v7 is not a great situation for scum.
This leaves wherebugsgo, Meapak_Ziphh, and jaybrundage.
jaybrundage strikes me a genuinely new at this game, and I think a newbie would be more giddy about the QT, about making plans and talking to his scumbuddy before doing something crazy. I don't think a newbie as scum would overplay his newbieness in his very first game. I don't see him voting for wherebugsgo if he were scum, he'd be a lot more worried about getting caught and about his QT.
This leaves wherebugsgo, and Meapak_Ziphh.
I think this is very hard to decide but I don't think that Mr. Wiggles would have pushed for Meapak_Ziphh if Meapak_Ziphh had been his scumbuddy. This is again the "You don't bus your teammate 2v7 day1" idea, they wouldn't want the lynch to be between them as one of them would clearly get lynched then. I think if Meapak_Ziphh had been scum, Mr. Wiggles would have had better targets for lynch that day, such as hiro protagonist but also jaybrundage and Erandorr.
This leaves wherebugsgo.
I think it would be very hard to catch wherebugsgo doing anything overly scummy because, as Palmar stated, he is quite good at scum.
- He doesn't hammer Mr. Wiggles on a flaky foundation of "liking his points about Erandorr".
- He tries to make us focus on hiro protagonist and jaybrundage after lynch, two people who might appear as easy targets but I doubt that either of them is scum.
- He needlessly softclaims power role in his very first post.
I don't think that this alone is enough to pin wherebugsgo as scum but by the process of elimination, I think he's the player who is most likely to be the last scum. 1. Didn't hammer Wiggles cause I thought hiro was the better lynch. 2. Hiro/Jay are not easy targets, and I am actually not suggesting we pursue hiro. Did you not read my last post where I asked Meapak why he's ignoring the fact that hiro was one of the votes on Wiggles? 3. What? These are his response to prphlz’s points. Regarding his second point, hiro was the easy target day one, when he and I were arguing hiro slipped and slipped and slipped. Going after him is easy and gives you cheap town credit. Now on day two Jay is an easy target as well for his poor play and late vote on wiggles. If we assume that scum wouldn’t bus scum day one, then that really leaves WBG, jay, and I. Each of us has a very limited number of targets to choose from to advocate a lynch today. Undoubtedly though, jay is the easiest lynch for WBG to push. Now I understand that it's just as easy for WBG to make a similar case against me. Thus if the town decides to lynch me today I'd understand that and tbh I'd be fine with it as long as WBG is lynched tomorrow. tl;dr: WBG is scum. He pushed the easy target day one and soft defended Wiggles throughout, he set himself up to go after jay today, another easy target. He's actually the only player fully soft defend wiggles (the only thing I ever said was that hiro was a better lynch, I never said I actually agreed with some of Wiggle's points).
I disagree that jay is easy to lynch. Think about it.
Jay is new and almost no one thinks he's scum. Sandro is the only exception and sandro has not been around to really say anything; he has almost no thread presence. If jay were an easy target and I was scum, I would no doubt believe that other townies would suspect him.
I don't believe you are scum, Meapak, so in that case you should reconsider your vote and take a second look at jay.
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sigh WBG you not gonna throw this game too T_T I'm not sure if your town or scum but if you town your not doing a good read if your scum then to be expected i guess
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no worries, people usually hate my play.
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Ok this is how i see this game so far
1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh
5.Erandorr
6.prplhz
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba
1 of 2 MAFIA remaining:
6 of 7 TOWN remaining:
While im obviously town i left it out because some people are suspicious of me.
hm im still not sure if Hiro is town or not maybe hes just bad in pressure I still find it wierd that he FOSed Meapak as well as Wiggles
That leaves me
WBG
and
Sandroba
I have to go look over there posts a bit more but considering WBG didnt vote for Mr.Wiggles and Sandroba's Vote was after i waited for him he took forever
On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
He though i already voted Wiggles if i had it would of been majority however i was holding my vote plz dont ask me why its dumb (sigh ok i wanted to be the decided vote to feel like a badass and shit yes dumb i know)
On November 17 2011 09:19 sandroba wrote:
Oh nevermind jay didn't vote wiggles, he said he would be fine voting him. Anyway I'm having a hard time tieing wiggles toghether with any other player.
And this could be seen as a soft defense as Wiggles Keep in Mind i was waiting on Sandrobas vote
On November 17 2011 09:02 jaybrundage wrote:
And we need sandrobas vote asap
I have to go over WBG posts a bit more before i comment about him
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none of that made any sense dude
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I think Sandroba is a mafia candidate is the short of it
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##Vote Wherebugsgo
Lets see how this works out
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On November 19 2011 09:14 jaybrundage wrote:
I think Sandroba is a mafia candidate is the short of it
On November 19 2011 10:03 jaybrundage wrote:
##Vote Wherebugsgo
Lets see how this works out
Alright I'm done saying "newbie mistake" WBG you're off the hook for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: jaybrundage
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Wherebugsgo (2)
prplhz
jaybrundage
jaybrundage (3)
wherebugsgo
sandroba
Meapak_Ziphh
With 7 people, 4 votes are needed for majority
Erandorr and hiro protagonist still need to vote
24 hours remaining in the day
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wait what sandroba is a good vote for mafia imo if your lynching me your gonna find out im town and get no information : /
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either sandroba or wbg imo
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God jay I hope you are not town. I'm keeping my vote on you, you just made my case on MZ ridiculous compared to voting you.
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Well i am town so not sure why im getting votes : /
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althoug i think its WBG if not them then sandroba
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Sigh they vote the new guy instead of voting for scum D:
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@jaybrundage Man, do you realise I basically was the main force changing the lynch form hiro onto Wiggles? No one was voting for wiggles before I said I thought hiro was not scum and explained how wiggles "It was a trap for scum!" bullshit made no sense and seemed artificial. I shifted the discussion with palmer towards wiggles and then put in the last vote on him, even though I had cold feet since no one seemed to be defending him.
All this considered there is absolutely no way I'm scum this game and no matter how new you are you should realise this. Also you say I'm scum in all your posts and votes wbg? Only because someone else is voting for him? I swear man, if you are not scum this game mafia is not your thing at all =/
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@sandroba
You had no case on Meapak_Ziphh. Even if you don't want to discard jaybrundage's scummy behavior as newbie behavior, you really still should come up with whatever else you have. You are most likely prime target for scum tonight, I don't get why they didn't shoot you last night but maybe they are afraid of doctor/jailor, so in any case it would be pretty sweet if you could show us at least some of your Meapak_Ziphh analysis.
If jaybrundage had been scum, don't you think that Mr. Wiggles would have given him a bit of advice before his demise? Do you think Mr. Wiggles would say "you should go for sandroba tomorrow" when, just by reputation and jaybrundage's leaves-a-lot-to-be-desired-play, you could get jaybrundage lynched without even cooking up a case at all? I agree that jaybrundage is scummy, but it just doesn't look like he's been in a QT with Mr. Wiggles at all. All his scummy behavior can be explained by him being noob, and it doesn't make sense how he should act like this in his first game as scum. It really doesn't.
Also, the "mafia is not your thing at all" is a bit harsh, we are kinda trying to attract people to this sub forum not scare them away with elitism. Everybody has a shitty first game, well at least I did.
@jaybrundage
On November 19 2011 08:07 jaybrundage wrote:
sigh WBG you not gonna throw this game too T_T I'm not sure if your town or scum but if you town your not doing a good read if your scum then to be expected i guess
What did you expect and why? What do you mean "throw this game too", what other game did he throw? What other games did you read?
On November 19 2011 08:38 jaybrundage wrote:
[...]
I have to go over WBG posts a bit more before i comment about him
What did you find when rereading wherebugsgo's posts? What made you vote for him? Be honest dude.
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Yeah that was a bit harsh, sorry. I'm just puzzled by his behaviour and it does not fit new townie either.
The one thing that really make me believe he might be scum though and I guess I forgot to point out is this:
On November 19 2011 08:38 jaybrundage wrote:Ok this is how i see this game so far 1. Palmar2. Mr Wiggles3.Wherebugsgo 4. Meapak_Ziphh5. Erandorr6. prplhz7.hiro protagonist 8.jaybrundage 9.Sandroba 1 of 2 MAFIA remaining: 6 of 7 TOWN remaining: While im obviously town i left it out because some people are suspicious of me. hm im still not sure if Hiro is town or not maybe hes just bad in pressure I still find it wierd that he FOSed Meapak as well as Wiggles That leaves me WBG and Sandroba I have to go look over there posts a bit more but considering WBG didnt vote for Mr.Wiggles and Sandroba's Vote was after i waited for him he took foreverShow nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/ He though i already voted Wiggles if i had it would of been majority however i was holding my vote plz dont ask me why its dumb (sigh ok i wanted to be the decided vote to feel like a badass and shit yes dumb i know)Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 09:19 sandroba wrote:
Oh nevermind jay didn't vote wiggles, he said he would be fine voting him. Anyway I'm having a hard time tieing wiggles toghether with any other player. And this could be seen as a soft defense as Wiggles Keep in Mind i was waiting on Sandrobas vote I have to go over WBG posts a bit more before i comment about him
This is some backwards logic to saying someone is scum unless you are already sure of wiggles alignment beforehand. Doesn't make sense for a newbie townie to be behaving like that and waiting to vote on wiggles since at that point no one was 100% sure on his alignment. Doesn't make sense on calling me out for taking long to vote for wiggles, since I even hammered the vote. That's scum logic right there transpiring in his backwards train of thought.
My whole case on meapak was based on him weak pushing hiro day1 and wiggles trying to distance himself from him. I don't feel like typing it up cuz I feel there is good odds on jay flipping scum, so I'll save myself the trouble. Especially after he posted his case on WBG, which DOES seem authentic, so he gets townie points from that.
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Sandro, what do you think about Hiro after the Wiggles lynch?
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@Errandor I commented on that already in a previous post. I had a town read on hiro day1, but wiggles not going for him when his ass was on the line seems a bit strange. It can be explained if he thought he wouldn't be able to convince me/palmar hiro was scum OR hiro was indeed scum with him. Hiro is missing though, he said 12 hours but it's been way more than that =/. I wanna hear what he has to say about today's lynch.
What's your take on today? Who you think is the best lynch?
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The fact that jay explains why he voted wiggles after he was already lynched shows that he already knew that he would be lynched at 5 votes, so it was a concious act. He was holding off on voting and the explanation he provided as to why may only be logical given acess to extra info (knowing wiggles is scum). The more I think about it, the more I'm confident he will flip red.
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Do you honestly think he would be dumb enough as Scum to draw our attention back to that fact?If he was playing his first game as scum, do you really think he would write something like that about you, an established player and specificly point out that he did not vote at the time you thought he did and that makes your supicion of him a lot stronger? Why would he point out that he held his vote? You think he is actually that bad?
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I think no matter what alignment it's already established that he is not the greatest mafia player. However, despite inexperience, I can only explain his actions so far if he is scum. Even in the very begining of the game I got that impression when he threw in the wbg vote and after that it only got worse. If being scum somehow makes you better at mafia in your first game than maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's the case.
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And actually I don't think he is "that" bad, that's why I think he is scum and using the clueless card.
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@jaybrundage
I don't want to lynch you but you can't expect people to defend you the slightest if you're not around and being active. So start being around and being active.
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Ok well i think Sandroba misunderstood me I was ensuring we got majority.
I see how you guys think Sandroba is town.
Im curious btw can the mafia still talk to each other after one is dead about the game specifically?
Well as i see it WBG and Hiro are the best candidates for mafia.
Its wierd i wanted to go for Hiro but after Sandrobas read lots of people backed off.
The assumption that mafia wouldnt bus day one is one we cant completely rely on.
If Hiro was under suspicion and then Mr.Wiggles Hiro has to act quick to obtain town cred. And still the fact that Mr.Wiggles
never once called out Hiro as scum. He did just about call out everyone else tho.
Hiro seems like the next logic go for mafia.
The only reason i have been so vocal is because i am town and all i got are my voice and my vote
And i think the other reason people are defending me is because the DT prolly checked me and i showed up green.
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On November 19 2011 16:37 prplhz wrote:
What did you find when rereading wherebugsgo's posts? What made you vote for him? Be honest dude.
Oh and the reason i made a case against against Sandroba and then voted for WBG is because i trust your guys judgement
Better then my own. Im obviously new at this so well i made a case against Sandroba. I can hear your guys feed back and change my judgement accordingly.
1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh
5.Erandorr
6.prplhz
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba (I guess ill trust you guys)
I still think MZ is town even tho he voted for me : (
IDK i guess another reason i didn't think Sandroba was town was because he was always gunning for me.
I think we should go for Hiro today.
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@jaybrundage
Hey did you read the thread? If so, why did you elect not to answer my questions?
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On November 19 2011 16:37 prplhz wrote:@jaybrundage Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 08:07 jaybrundage wrote:
sigh WBG you not gonna throw this game too T_T I'm not sure if your town or scum but if you town your not doing a good read if your scum then to be expected i guess What did you expect and why? What do you mean "throw this game too", what other game did he throw? What other games did you read? I heard he single handily lost a game for his team XVI or something like that. Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 08:38 jaybrundage wrote:
[...]
I have to go over WBG posts a bit more before i comment about him
What did you find when rereading wherebugsgo's posts? What made you vote for him? Be honest dude.
I did answer this in my last post i trust the people who i think are towns judgement
And the reason I voted for him was because I think that you and MZ are town
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In case you miss it in the above post i read bugs lost a game for his team in like XVI or some game name like that
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btw WBG i added you in lol lets play soon :D
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On November 19 2011 22:12 sandroba wrote:
I think no matter what alignment it's already established that he is not the greatest mafia player. However, despite inexperience, I can only explain his actions so far if he is scum. Even in the very begining of the game I got that impression when he threw in the wbg vote and after that it only got worse. If being scum somehow makes you better at mafia in your first game than maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's the case.
You are missing my point. Your general play will be shit in your first game, but that first vote may have been him being completely clueless and not scum. If you have not played before and see 2 people voting for someone in the first 5 posts or something, don't you think that its possible that he thought that is how we play this game? As Scum, wouldn't you be more likely to shut up and do nothing, instead of pushing somone you know is town?
You are talking about the "clueless card" and you think he is not "that " bad but if he is not , why would he point something out to you that makes you even more certain that he is scum?
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Erandorr what do you think about a lynch on Hiro today
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On November 19 2011 23:29 jaybrundage wrote:
Erandorr what do you think about a lynch on Hiro today
Excellent question!
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On November 19 2011 23:23 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2011 22:12 sandroba wrote:
I think no matter what alignment it's already established that he is not the greatest mafia player. However, despite inexperience, I can only explain his actions so far if he is scum. Even in the very begining of the game I got that impression when he threw in the wbg vote and after that it only got worse. If being scum somehow makes you better at mafia in your first game than maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think it's the case. You are missing my point. Your general play will be shit in your first game, but that first vote may have been him being completely clueless and not scum. If you have not played before and see 2 people voting for someone in the first 5 posts or something, don't you think that its possible that he thought that is how we play this game? As Scum, wouldn't you be more likely to shut up and do nothing, instead of pushing somone you know is town? You are talking about the "clueless card" and you think he is not "that " bad but if he is not , why would he point something out to you that makes you even more certain that he is scum?
I don't know how you are jumping to that conclusion. Each person functions differently. Maybe you are knew and see 2 players you know are town voting for some random dude and figures "well maybe I should that too".
And he also doesn't know how my head works so your argument that he wouldn't post that as it would lead me to believe he was scum makes no sense. Like wiggles is a good player and I'm sure he didn't intend to get caught in his posts, but still we figured him out. How does his play so far makes him town as oposed to scum? I really took a look at several other players, but I simply cannot flat out call someone else scum without ignoring some townie behaviour from his posts. Jay just seems like the best option by far to me. Who would you say is a better lynch?
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Give me a couple of minutes and then tell me what you think about it .
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@jaybrundage Can you please explain your thought process on those town reads of yours?
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Sure Sandroba gimme a sec
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Also no one besides me flat out said I'm town, who do you say you are trusting and take their word for it?
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1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh Ok so MZ went really strong after Hiro while we didnt find out if hes mafia or not had it been a mislynch it would of looked terrible on him. As he pretty went balls to the wall trying to lynch him.
5.Erandorr Erandorr was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and has seemed like he is always posting pro town
imo Erandorr would not be defending me as town because if he was mafia he would be pushing a mislynch
6.prplhz Again was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and always seems like he is very protown putting in good posts active also defending me so there is not mislynch
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba (I guess ill trust you guys) and i do see what you said about changing the vote from hiro to Mr.Wiggles and because everyone else has seen you as town so gotta trust the vets judgment :p
It would only be in the mafias advantage to have a easy mislynch thats also why i was suspicious of you and am also suspicious of WBG. Suprising Hiro hasnt said anything about it.
Hiro what do you think of lynching me?
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And Sandroba what do you think of lynching Hiro?
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I think Hiro maybe the other Mafia we are looking for.
There are a couple of points worth noting.
He agrees with Palmar that he would like to vote WBG, but does not follow up. When I ask him about it he repeats "lets start this game off the right foot" and ignores my question. That is not very like a town player. He then proceeds to give us a generic game mechanic post. THat in itself is not bad, but combined with it being in the same post where he ignored my question, it did look kind of bad.
Now everything that he did in the early parts of the game are excusable and in now way make him scum.
But there are quite a few ties to Wiggles and some really bad behavior
On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:
1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...
4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.
5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.
6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.
7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^
8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.
9.Sandroba- nothing.
And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:
-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.
-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.
-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
This was his only post with content, or somethign like that. Palmar gave me shit for a similar post ( correctly, although I did have other intentions behind it) but notice how little Hiro is actually saying ,.
First of he has nullreads on nearly everybody and his best target at that point is WBG, still for the same reasons he stated at the start. He does not even seem to think that WBG is playing particularly scummy, just very annoying and he does not want to deal with him.
Notice also that he soft defends Wiggles twice. He spins Wiggles first post in a pro-town manner and then defends him again when talking about MZ (I bolded those parts)
filter
+ Show Spoiler +Ok, first off, Meapak:
This is his first game relevint post:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then.
Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose.
Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro.
Show nested quote +
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this:
On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas."
Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.
His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this:
On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on.
now, on to wiggles:
so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length
+ Show Spoiler +
Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak:
Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this:
On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy?
So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles.
All the rest:
I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far.
Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch
Then there is the timing of his vote on Wiggles. It was clear that you and Palmar especially seemed to agree that Wiggles was the best lynch. Me Palmar and Prplzh voted Wiggles already and then he decides to show up again with a pretty strong turn and jumps on the Wiggles wagon. He adds some okay-ish arguments and then says that he is "Okay with lynching Wiggles." Is is also "okay" with lynching prplzh but never follows up with that.
It is also important to note that he turned on MZ and was considering that he may be town. Same goes for WBG
And then there is this post :
On November 17 2011 09:54 hiro protagonist wrote:
Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted.
Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles?
Notice that Hiro voted for wiggles and agreeing that he would make an okay lynch.
He never speaks against the lynch directly but still wants to get support for a turnaround away from either him or Wiggles.
That post sounds really , really bad to me.
He also claims that no one really seems to believe in the lynch, thus carefully stating again that he does not really like it and wants to get it away from wiggles. Yet we never hear a word against the lynch from him. If he was town, wouldn't he still push the targets he believes in? Instead he sort of agrees with the lynch on Wiggles but still does want to get the lynch away from the guy.
To me it sounds like a bus where Hiro still tried to get the lynch deflected to someone else.
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Zzz look sandro, i found something. Also hiro is missing ^.^
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Well, as I already posted it kinda makes sense if hiro is scum, given wiggles' behaviour, but his own behaviour day1 lead me to think he is town. I would like to see his opinion on the lynch aswel.
Your logic (except for meapak, because he didn't go balls deep for hiro and we have no confirmation about his alignment) seems fine, but the thing that puzzles me is that if you went out of your way to make these conections beforehand you should have come to the conclusion I was town on your own. It feels like an after thought to me =/.
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huh? ooh thats for Jay right?
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Hmm yeah that's some interesting stuff there. I'll take a look at the rest of his filter.
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Yeah you posted while I was typing.
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I will be back in like 4 hours so plenty of time before the lynch. Everyone else look at what I wrote and also the evidence on jay and tell us who you would like to lynch please.
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The thing that bothers me about lynching hiro is that they were both on the chopping block yesterday and they made no real effort to get the lynch moved elsewhere. Like wiggles had no thread presence while the pressure was on hiro and it seemed like he might have ended up being lynched. Wiggles only really makes an appearance when he gets called out. Occam's razor says that one of the main lynch targets ytd ought to be town, but then again it has failed me before (merc mini mafia).
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We could also no lynch twice and still have 2 chances on hitting scum. That could be a good strategy if our blue(s) use their heads.
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What do you think about the way Wiggles talked about Hiro? (Also im afk for a couple of hours for real now ^.^ )
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Hmm actually no lynching might be a good option, as both cop and jailer (if you protect someone and still mafia gets their kill off means that player is inocent, so you need to protect a dif person each night to confirm as many as possible) can confirm players. With also the possibility of medic/jailer mafia can't exactly choose who to kill and they are behind, so that means they are going to have to shoot shady players if they want sure kills, which is a plus for town as it narrows down our suspects.
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@Erandorr
At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this.
This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere.
The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill.
I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo.
Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever.
I don't like the no lynch idea.
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Why don't you like the no-lynch idea, give me reasons. You don't seem sure wbg is scum and the exact same logic you used to vote wbg could be used to vote mz or jay.
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As the great artosis said, when you are ahead, get more ahead. There is only 1/6 chance that we have no roles capable of confirming players and even if we only have a medic, he can get a protect and confirm himself + another player. That means disaster for scum so if they risk shooting one of the players everybody else thinks is town they risk losing outright. The only way scum can actually come back is if we keep mislynching people. While we have 1-2 blues alive, prolonging the game only gives us more info. If we had a clear cut lynch today, great, but nobody seems to be on the same page and risking a mislynching on low odds seems like throwing away our lead.
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Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them.
jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real.
I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage.
I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days.
- 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
- 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
- 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
- 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.
This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch.
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On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.
This interaction with mr.wiggles seems very legit.
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Also note this was on his first post, when no one else was really looking into mr.wiggles. He doesn't actually flat out calls wiggles scum but that does draw a lot of attention onto him.
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Scum can't really afford to hold of shooting we have 50% chance of having cop. They exchange a kill for 1/6 chance of getting lucky and "confirmed" by the medic. They also have to be in the "likely town" player pool in the first place, to this having any resemblance of chance of working out in their favor. Still the odds are stacked towards town.
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On November 20 2011 02:28 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted. This interaction with mr.wiggles seems very legit.
This is actually a really good point.
And considering Erandors post about Hiro
Im going to change my vote to Hiro
##Unvote
##Vote hiro protagonist
I think no lynch would be viable if we were guaranteed to have a cop but we dont know : /
I would like to hear hiros point of view
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He doesn't call him scum, he just says that it's a stupid question. This is objectively true and everybody else agreed, from there on it was about arguing your way out of a lynch, something that Mr. Wiggles didn't manage to do. wherebugsgo never pushed for Mr. Wiggles lynch, he actually refused to hammer him and said he'd rather have a no lynch instead of lynching hiro protagonist (this post and the next). His reason for not hammering was that he didn't want to listen to you and Palmar because in PYP:I he'd listened to town players and they made one singlewrong call (Foolishness) so he'd rather have a no lynch and it looked like hiro protagonist or no one until you arrived and hammered. Funny that he doesn't want to listen to townie sandroba because scum sandroba manipulated someone in a PM game, I really don't think this situation and PYP:I is the same and wherebugsgo is just hiding behind the last lesson he'd learned (he mentioned this in the post game too iirc).
wherebugsgo's scum is not afraid of arguing at all, and I don't think he bussed Mr. Wiggles in any way by pointing out one single scummy thing, especially not when he didn't push it at all after it. It was only because other players started asking questions and because, something no one could have foreseen, we decided that hiro protagonist wasn't scum, that Mr. Wiggles was brought up as lynch again.
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I think there's a much bigger chance of scum getting back in the game if we no lynch than if we lynch. There's a lot of stuff that can go wrong, imagine if jaybrundage is cop and he checks you and Erandorr or something. You should trust me on this sandroba, I'm willing to lynch jaybrundage over wherebugsgo as long as we don't no lynch. I think no lynch is a really bad idea.
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That link you gave doesn't point to wbg saying any of that stuff.
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Uhmn, I ask him if he wants to lynch hiro protagonist and then he says that no lynch is the best alternative.
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Go filter wbg when the wiggles discussion was going on. He says he is fine with wiggles lynch while saying other players (errandor, meapak) are probably town. As scum why would he do such a thing? If you are planing to cast suspicion on your partner and bus why you limit your lynch options for later. Doesn't make sense for wbg to dissagree with palmar on errandor and with me on mz if he was scum with wiggles.
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Sandroba I don't think no lynching is a good idea. Relying on blues just isn't something I want to do. We don't know for sure if we have any of those roles and even if we do they might get sniped and then that ruins the plan.
Other things. Re hiro protagonist: I thought it was already established that he wasn't the most suspicious because he was the fourth vote on wiggles. I dropped my case against him when several people pointed that out.
Re jaybrundage: After reading the thread this morning I'm starting to think you're being coached. You make these absolutely TERRIBLE posts but then you come back with one or two decent ones. I wonder if anyone else has this feeling?
I'm going to have spotty activity today, I'll do my best to keep up on my itouch.
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Well I just don't feel confortable lynching anyone else besides jay today. If the rest doesn't want to lynch him I'd much rather no lynch than lynching anyone else.
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On November 20 2011 03:38 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sandroba I don't think no lynching is a good idea. Relying on blues just isn't something I want to do. We don't know for sure if we have any of those roles and even if we do they might get sniped and then that ruins the plan.
Other things. Re hiro protagonist: I thought it was already established that he wasn't the most suspicious because he was the fourth vote on wiggles. I dropped my case against him when several people pointed that out.
Re jaybrundage: After reading the thread this morning I'm starting to think you're being coached. You make these absolutely TERRIBLE posts but then you come back with one or two decent ones. I wonder if anyone else has this feeling?
I'm going to have spotty activity today, I'll do my best to keep up on my itouch.
Maybe im getting better :D yay.
MZ the assumption that scum wouldnt bus day one is a mind set thats hurting us.
They had a choice either Hiro was going to get lynched. Mr.Wiggles and Hiro tried to get a case against you but it failed.
So the only chance Hiro had was to bus Mr.Wiggles. Consider this If Hiro hadnt voted for Mr.Wiggles He would be automatically the next logical target. He didnt have much choice
thank you for the compliment :D
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I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else.
I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him.
@sandroba
What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum.
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Yo guys sorry for my absence, I've been asleep (drank too much last night lol)
After I eat some breakfast I think I'll be set haha. I don't think we should no-lynch today, on skimming the last page I keep seeing this idea crop up.
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Im gonna flip green and it will be a sad sad day : (
Heres a question after i flip green who's the next target. If i get mislynched i at least would like for us to obtain information from it. Ugh if i do get killed im not looking forward to my death lol the last one was nasty.
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On November 19 2011 20:23 sandroba wrote:
@Errandor I commented on that already in a previous post. I had a town read on hiro day1, but wiggles not going for him when his ass was on the line seems a bit strange. It can be explained if he thought he wouldn't be able to convince me/palmar hiro was scum OR hiro was indeed scum with him. Hiro is missing though, he said 12 hours but it's been way more than that =/. I wanna hear what he has to say about today's lynch.What's your take on today? Who you think is the best lynch?
I noticed this as well; although at first I thought it was incredibly unlikely that hiro would be scum since he put the fourth vote on Wiggles, but then both players said some strange things that didn't quite add up either way. It's WIFOM and honestly I think you could make an equally reasonable argument either way.
In such a situation I think we'd simply have to lynch him to find out, since, like you said about Jay, I don't think hiro will flip due to a scum shot.
The question is, do we have that liberty? Right now Jay is the best bet for being scum. If he somehow flips town then we have:
5v1 after lynch
4v1 or 5v1 after night (medic prot/no medic prot)
Then if we lynch someone and they are not scum again:
3v1 or 4v1,
night
2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1 (no medic prots, one, two)
On the assumption we have no medics/they don't manage to prot anyone we have two mislynches at our disposal.
Of course, if we have no medics then we have a cop, if we mislynch twice and he lives to the last day all he has had to do is check one of the players who is left alive and we win. Keep this in mind if you are the cop.
On November 19 2011 21:59 Erandorr wrote:
Do you honestly think he would be dumb enough as Scum to draw our attention back to that fact?If he was playing his first game as scum, do you really think he would write something like that about you, an established player and specificly point out that he did not vote at the time you thought he did and that makes your supicion of him a lot stronger? Why would he point out that he held his vote? You think he is actually that bad?
He's playing his first game as scum, what makes you think that he knows how any of us play?
I really doubt he's gone out and read other games, and other than what people have said about my play in XLV I don't think he knows anyone's history.
On November 19 2011 23:00 jaybrundage wrote:Ok well i think Sandroba misunderstood me I was ensuring we got majority. I see how you guys think Sandroba is town. Im curious btw can the mafia still talk to each other after one is dead about the game specifically?Well as i see it WBG and Hiro are the best candidates for mafia. Its wierd i wanted to go for Hiro but after Sandrobas read lots of people backed off. The assumption that mafia wouldnt bus day one is one we cant completely rely on. If Hiro was under suspicion and then Mr.Wiggles Hiro has to act quick to obtain town cred. And still the fact that Mr.Wiggles never once called out Hiro as scum. He did just about call out everyone else tho. Hiro seems like the next logic go for mafia. The only reason i have been so vocal is because i am town and all i got are my voice and my vote And i think the other reason people are defending me is because the DT prolly checked me and i showed up green.
What's with the bolded question?
What would drive a town player to ask that? I know he's new and all, but even curiosity aside, that's a strange question to ask.
On November 20 2011 00:23 jaybrundage wrote:
1.Palmar
2.Mr Wiggles
3.Wherebugsgo
4.Meapak_Ziphh Ok so MZ went really strong after Hiro while we didnt find out if hes mafia or not had it been a mislynch it would of looked terrible on him. As he pretty went balls to the wall trying to lynch him.
5.Erandorr Erandorr was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and has seemed like he is always posting pro town
imo Erandorr would not be defending me as town because if he was mafia he would be pushing a mislynch
6.prplhz Again was one of the first votes on Mr.Wiggles and always seems like he is very protown putting in good posts active also defending me so there is not mislynch
7.hiro protagonist
8.jaybrundage
9.Sandroba (I guess ill trust you guys) and i do see what you said about changing the vote from hiro to Mr.Wiggles and because everyone else has seen you as town so gotta trust the vets judgment :p
It would only be in the mafias advantage to have a easy mislynch thats also why i was suspicious of you and am also suspicious of WBG. Suprising Hiro hasnt said anything about it.
Hiro what do you think of lynching me?
Why are you calling people town so easily?
This is really strange, I can't make heads nor tails of what's going on with this right now. Either he really is a new townie who is overly trusting of other players, and is now downplaying his confusion by sheeping our opinions so that he doesn't get lynched, or he's a new scum who is doing almost exactly the same thing, except it's a charade.
As I've said before, distinguishing bad/new townies from scum is often my weakest point, so I really don't know what to say atm.
On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:@Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea.
I don't see what you are seeing in those posts, but hiro's posts in this game do not look like that. Also he's not focusing on finding townies in this game, and I don't even think the two games are comparable.
Lastly, if the bolded were the case then I am not scum. I wanted Wiggles to be lynched, but I thought hiro was a better choice. If I were scum, I would've acted upon the fact that there were four votes left and hammered Wiggles. I'm very decisive as scum and not afraid of starting arguments, but I am afraid of things that make me look bad long term. Not hammering wiggles, I admit, made me look really bad. I also straddled the fence because I was unsure between hiro and wiggles, though my gut kept saying hiro was the better lynch.
Ofc, at this point we don't know if hiro is scum or not, so I could very well still be right. I reasoned after the flip that it was unlikely though, since hiro voted fourth on Wiggles. I was the one who pointed this out to Meapak, who said the focus should be on me+hiro. If I were scum why would I point that out to Meapak, and basically give him a free pass to attack me? If I were scum I would have no interest in giving information to town, that would work against my win condition. I could have simply let Meapak chase after hiro because he missed the fact that hiro was the fourth vote on Wiggles.
On November 20 2011 03:38 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sandroba I don't think no lynching is a good idea. Relying on blues just isn't something I want to do. We don't know for sure if we have any of those roles and even if we do they might get sniped and then that ruins the plan.
Other things. Re hiro protagonist: I thought it was already established that he wasn't the most suspicious because he was the fourth vote on wiggles. I dropped my case against him when several people pointed that out.
Re jaybrundage: After reading the thread this morning I'm starting to think you're being coached. You make these absolutely TERRIBLE posts but then you come back with one or two decent ones. I wonder if anyone else has this feeling?
I'm going to have spotty activity today, I'll do my best to keep up on my itouch.
Yes, this is why I thought hiro was not scum, but in rereading after seeing this post by Erandorr:
On November 20 2011 00:37 Erandorr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think Hiro maybe the other Mafia we are looking for. There are a couple of points worth noting. He agrees with Palmar that he would like to vote WBG, but does not follow up. When I ask him about it he repeats "lets start this game off the right foot" and ignores my question. That is not very like a town player. He then proceeds to give us a generic game mechanic post. THat in itself is not bad, but combined with it being in the same post where he ignored my question, it did look kind of bad. Now everything that he did in the early parts of the game are excusable and in now way make him scum.
But there are quite a few ties to Wiggles and some really bad behavior On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:
1.Palmar - null read, nothing to go on really. curious how he will play the last half of day 1.
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
3.Wherebugsgo- Ill get to him last...
4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.
5.Erandorr- leaning town. Wants to lead town. Im all for it.
6.prplhz- null read. asks me alot of questions, and has done very little else. Could be scum wanting to make me more skittish (which he is btw) last post makes me feel more townie about him.
7.hiro protagonist- townie. says scummy things, but has the right intentions ^_^
8.jaybrundage- Null His last post is considerably better than those before it. His post are hard to read. Needs to be more clear. Needs to step up.
9.Sandroba- nothing.
And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:
-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.
-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.
-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
This was his only post with content, or somethign like that. Palmar gave me shit for a similar post ( correctly, although I did have other intentions behind it) but notice how little Hiro is actually saying ,. First of he has nullreads on nearly everybody and his best target at that point is WBG, still for the same reasons he stated at the start. He does not even seem to think that WBG is playing particularly scummy, just very annoying and he does not want to deal with him. Notice also that he soft defends Wiggles twice. He spins Wiggles first post in a pro-town manner and then defends him again when talking about MZ (I bolded those parts) filter + Show Spoiler +Ok, first off, Meapak:
This is his first game relevint post:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then.
Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose.
Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro.
Show nested quote +
This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this:
On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas."
Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles.
His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this:
On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off.
no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on.
now, on to wiggles:
so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length
+ Show Spoiler +
Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak:
Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this:
On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy?
So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles.
All the rest:
I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far.
Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch Then there is the timing of his vote on Wiggles. It was clear that you and Palmar especially seemed to agree that Wiggles was the best lynch. Me Palmar and Prplzh voted Wiggles already and then he decides to show up again with a pretty strong turn and jumps on the Wiggles wagon. He adds some okay-ish arguments and then says that he is "Okay with lynching Wiggles." Is is also "okay" with lynching prplzh but never follows up with that. It is also important to note that he turned on MZ and was considering that he may be town. Same goes for WBG And then there is this post : On November 17 2011 09:54 hiro protagonist wrote:
Seems like some people have cold feet? MZ would love to lynch me. Seems like everyone voting wiggles is like "yeah, ok, Ill vote him" wishy washy except Palmar. WBG feels better about lynching me. Jay still has his vote on bugs that was there 5 min into the game lol. Sand has not voted.
Anyone have any other thoughts. Meapak, If not me, who would you vote? Anyone here that would rather lynch someone other than me or wiggles? Notice that Hiro voted for wiggles and agreeing that he would make an okay lynch. He never speaks against the lynch directly but still wants to get support for a turnaround away from either him or Wiggles. That post sounds really , really bad to me. He also claims that no one really seems to believe in the lynch, thus carefully stating again that he does not really like it and wants to get it away from wiggles. Yet we never hear a word against the lynch from him. If he was town, wouldn't he still push the targets he believes in? Instead he sort of agrees with the lynch on Wiggles but still does want to get the lynch away from the guy. To me it sounds like a bus where Hiro still tried to get the lynch deflected to someone else.
I'm unsure again.
On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them.
This is WIFOM, though.
I agree with you that Meapak doesn't look scum, but for different reasons than this. You can't simply assume scum won't make other scum look bad, because that's not always true.
Think about it, I don't think Palmar would've said he thought the optimal play for scum day 1 was to bus unless it actually has happened. I didn't agree with it earlier but it's certainly possible, we just cannot rule things out based on unbased assumptions. That's how, for example, town often falls into the trap of getting a "confirmed townie" and letting him live.
On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real.
Wait again, how can you assume this?
One person thinks jay looks coached, you think he doesn't look coached. Don't you see that there is no room here to just assume those things? We can't have it both ways, since between you and Meapak there's nothing objective that furthers one argument over the other.
On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage.
Up till this statement you hadn't said anything scummy, but I find this really strange.
You wanted to lynch me, but you didn't push it strongly because you wanted other people's approval?
That's backward thinking, you make a case on someone you think is scum and THEN you see how other people react. Waiting to make a case because you want to hear other opinions is rather weird, because you won't usually hear much unless you actually make the case to begin with.
On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days. - 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
- 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
- 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
- 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch.
I hope you meant three votes and not four, since four votes means jay would already be hammered and you would be wasting your vote.
Most of the rest of the post is rather weird because the best case in all of the situations is that we win the game and the worst case is we lose! (lol wut) I mean, what was the point of all of that?
On November 20 2011 03:49 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 03:38 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sandroba I don't think no lynching is a good idea. Relying on blues just isn't something I want to do. We don't know for sure if we have any of those roles and even if we do they might get sniped and then that ruins the plan.
Other things. Re hiro protagonist: I thought it was already established that he wasn't the most suspicious because he was the fourth vote on wiggles. I dropped my case against him when several people pointed that out.
Re jaybrundage: After reading the thread this morning I'm starting to think you're being coached. You make these absolutely TERRIBLE posts but then you come back with one or two decent ones. I wonder if anyone else has this feeling?
I'm going to have spotty activity today, I'll do my best to keep up on my itouch. Maybe im getting better :D yay. MZ the assumption that scum wouldnt bus day one is a mind set thats hurting us. They had a choice either Hiro was going to get lynched. Mr.Wiggles and Hiro tried to get a case against you but it failed. So the only chance Hiro had was to bus Mr.Wiggles. Consider this If Hiro hadnt voted for Mr.Wiggles He would be automatically the next logical target. He didnt have much choice thank you for the compliment :D
If you think that mindset is hurting us, why is your vote still on me?
On November 20 2011 03:56 prplhz wrote:
I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else.
I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him.
@sandroba
What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum.
As sandro pointed out (sometime yesterday?) sandro actually, from a scum perspective, probably doesn't have much thread cred.
Look at it this way; by the end of day 1 he was one of the most inactive players, he was relatively indecisive, and there was never any suspicion on him. Even now there has been no suspicion on him.
That's an excellent opportunity for scum to open up an attack, since they love players like that. It makes it look as if they are doing real analysis, they are obviously making an original attack, since no one else found that person scummy, and analysis can be fabricated because the player is relatively inactive.
When you think about it like that, it's not so far-fetched that a scum player would attack sandro. The bigger assumption is actually the one you're making, that a new player wouldn't attack sandro since he's a well-known good townie or whatever. That assumption relies on wiggles telling him that, and trying to figure out what scum would do in that kind of situation is very similar to predicting or making sense of night kills; only scum know that.
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Im back, sorry for being gone for so long. gonna read the thread, and give my thoughts/vote in a sec.
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On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:@Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea.
Hey man, I would never call you an idiot if you actually make sense( If I did at all then I am sorry, thats not a nice thing to do) . Unfortunatly you seem to have missed the point i was trying to make. I said that the points you are talking about make him in no way scum, like others before me seemed to think. Could you give me your thoughts on my actual points against him?
The bus is debatable. Think about the position he was in at that point. The only real targets where him and Wiggles. Do you think that there was any point where someone other then those two could have been lynched? It also would (sort of) explain why no one really seemed to defend Wiggles.
Now Sandro , I have a couple of questions for you
1) You said that you thought MZ was most likely to be scum but that you were to lazy to write it out. What happened to that?
2) Did you factor in the Roleblocker into your no lynch plan? He sort of could fuck that over. Also we could just get unlucky and have nothing that is in any way investigative.
On November 20 2011 01:07 sandroba wrote:
The thing that bothers me about lynching hiro is that they were both on the chopping block yesterday and they made no real effort to get the lynch moved elsewhere. Like wiggles had no thread presence while the pressure was on hiro and it seemed like he might have ended up being lynched. Wiggles only really makes an appearance when he gets called out. Occam's razor says that one of the main lynch targets ytd ought to be town, but then again it has failed me before (merc mini mafia).
The issue I have with that is that there was actually not really anyone else ever up for discussion. The activity has not been exactly strong and they both sooort of went after MZ. Hiro is not exactly a strong player and had the worst standing possible at that point. Wiggles played very poorly this game so I have no clue how much we should read into that.
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On November 20 2011 06:14 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im back, sorry for being gone for so long. gonna read the thread, and give my thoughts/vote in a sec.
Hi Hiro !
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Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too?
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On November 20 2011 06:28 Erandorr wrote:
Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too?
?
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On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:@Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea. I don't see what you are seeing in those posts, but hiro's posts in this game do not look like that. Also he's not focusing on finding townies in this game, and I don't even think the two games are comparable. Lastly, if the bolded were the case then I am not scum. I wanted Wiggles to be lynched, but I thought hiro was a better choice. If I were scum, I would've acted upon the fact that there were four votes left and hammered Wiggles. I'm very decisive as scum and not afraid of starting arguments, but I am afraid of things that make me look bad long term. Not hammering wiggles, I admit, made me look really bad. I also straddled the fence because I was unsure between hiro and wiggles, though my gut kept saying hiro was the better lynch. Ofc, at this point we don't know if hiro is scum or not, so I could very well still be right. I reasoned after the flip that it was unlikely though, since hiro voted fourth on Wiggles. I was the one who pointed this out to Meapak, who said the focus should be on me+hiro. If I were scum why would I point that out to Meapak, and basically give him a free pass to attack me? If I were scum I would have no interest in giving information to town, that would work against my win condition. I could have simply let Meapak chase after hiro because he missed the fact that hiro was the fourth vote on Wiggles.
He is focusing on finding townies. Maybe this is because he doesn't trust his own scum hunting abilities and instead he tries to find townies that he can trust. I think he has more confidence as scum, since he knows he's wrong and that he can't possibly he right it's easier to be more assertive. You even complained about it yourself that his list of reads didn't contain a single scum read.
Yes, it made you look bad that you didn't hammer Mr. Wiggles. You can say that you wanted him lynched as much as you want.
You pointed out something that 6 townies would have figured out eventually (I knew it, I would have stated it if you hadn't). These are easy points for scum to get town credit, you point out something that's important but that's going to be figured out in a short while anyway.
On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them. This is WIFOM, though. I agree with you that Meapak doesn't look scum, but for different reasons than this. You can't simply assume scum won't make other scum look bad, because that's not always true. Think about it, I don't think Palmar would've said he thought the optimal play for scum day 1 was to bus unless it actually has happened. I didn't agree with it earlier but it's certainly possible, we just cannot rule things out based on unbased assumptions. That's how, for example, town often falls into the trap of getting a "confirmed townie" and letting him live.
No, it is not WIFOM that two scum do not want a lynch to be between themselves on day1. They want both to make it through day1.
Palmar said to ignore everything he said during the night including his hard bussing theory, a theory that also surprised me as I wrote in the thread. I don't propose lynching only between those who didn't vote for Mr. Wiggles, but I think that it is very much more likely that we find scum there so that's where I'm looking. We can think about something else later.
On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real. Wait again, how can you assume this? One person thinks jay looks coached, you think he doesn't look coached. Don't you see that there is no room here to just assume those things? We can't have it both ways, since between you and Meapak there's nothing objective that furthers one argument over the other.
Yea, it's hard to be objective about whether someone looks coached or not. Same about whether someone looks genuine or fake or fabricate and all that. I can only say that I doubt Mr. Wiggles would go out without giving some advice to his newbie scum buddy. Mr. Wiggles put a lot of effort into the thread when he was about to get lynched, do you really think he just totally ignored jaybrundage in the QT? That would make no sense.
On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage. Up till this statement you hadn't said anything scummy, but I find this really strange. You wanted to lynch me, but you didn't push it strongly because you wanted other people's approval? That's backward thinking, you make a case on someone you think is scum and THEN you see how other people react. Waiting to make a case because you want to hear other opinions is rather weird, because you won't usually hear much unless you actually make the case to begin with.
Look through my games. I doubt I've ever pushed any lynch harder than this.
On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days. - 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
- 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
- 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
- 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch. I hope you meant three votes and not four, since four votes means jay would already be hammered and you would be wasting your vote. Most of the rest of the post is rather weird because the best case in all of the situations is that we win the game and the worst case is we lose! (lol wut) I mean, what was the point of all of that?
Yes, three of course.
Yes, it's a weird post. I just wanted to show that I'd thought about it, in the end I arrived at the same conclusion as a lot of other people: it's not worth it. I'm not a statistics buff so I can't give you numbers but it just seems to risky and town is in a good position right now so I don't think it's worth it.
On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 03:56 prplhz wrote:
I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else.
I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him.
@sandroba
What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum. As sandro pointed out (sometime yesterday?) sandro actually, from a scum perspective, probably doesn't have much thread cred. Look at it this way; by the end of day 1 he was one of the most inactive players, he was relatively indecisive, and there was never any suspicion on him. Even now there has been no suspicion on him. That's an excellent opportunity for scum to open up an attack, since they love players like that. It makes it look as if they are doing real analysis, they are obviously making an original attack, since no one else found that person scummy, and analysis can be fabricated because the player is relatively inactive. When you think about it like that, it's not so far-fetched that a scum player would attack sandro. The bigger assumption is actually the one you're making, that a new player wouldn't attack sandro since he's a well-known good townie or whatever. That assumption relies on wiggles telling him that, and trying to figure out what scum would do in that kind of situation is very similar to predicting or making sense of night kills; only scum know that.
sandroba has a lot of town credit, he hammered Mr. Wiggles. I don't think you could pick a worse day2 target than sandroba, especially for a new guy since he's gonna get destroyed no matter what. It's a bit hard to judge since jaybrundage is new but I just think he strikes me as a new guy with a very misguided attack on sandroba. A lot of new players think they've figured it out and that they're batman, that's what he uses to explain his late Mr. Wiggles vote too, a crazy plan that makes no sense. I think newbies like these and it fits on him, while I think that it's hard to overplay the newbie card as a newbie.
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On November 20 2011 06:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:28 Erandorr wrote:
Oh shit. I just noticed something. Could all of you guys look at MZ and explain to me why we are not lynching the shit out of him, too? ?
!
Can you tell me why you don't think he is scum? Could very well be that I am overlooking something.
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I would just like to add that we are heading fast towards a no lynch.
Don't like that because of the roleblocker
##Vote Hiro
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Okay I just found out I have to go in a very short while.
Sucks for you jaybrundage.
##Unvote
##Vote jaybrundage
See you tonight.
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Can we get a votecount (yeah I am lazy)
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I just put the 4th vote on jaybrundage. You and jaybrundage are voting hiro protagonist while wherebugsgo, sandroba, Meapak_Ziphh and I are voting jaybrundage.
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Wait Erandorr, you have found something super scummy I did but you're not pointing it out? And if you're concerned about a no lynch then isn't voting hiro counter intuitive? iirc jay has more votes.
For the record @both sandroba and Erandorr: you've both said I'm scummy now. I think you should post your cases. I really don't mind dying if it helps clear things up. The final mafia is most likely amongst jay/wbg/hiro/me so if I need to die to make things apparent that's fine.
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So I have looked over the thread multiple times. Ive made 3 different cases against WBG, Meapak, and Prplhz, only to realize while making the case that I felt that they where town T_T. In all three cases, I looked at there interactions with wiggles, and each one called out wiggles when he was looking weak already. I Just dont see scum doing that in that position to there partner. also, Prplhz made a post telling me to stop being a Derp and play the game, something that scum would have know reason to do. I initially agreed with both the cases against WBG put up by Meapak and Prplhz. however, when I look back at WBG, i just... dont think he is mafia =/
This brings me to Jay and Sandroba. I would be fine with lynching Jay today, he is improving as a town, but I think there is meart to WBG post about Jay being scum.
Now, for Sandroba: I think He would be the only player in this game with the exeption to Palmar that has the balls to bus there partner on day 1. I dont mean strat up ' Im calling you out as scum' bus. I mean Bussing when he realizes its the best option. Looking back at the conversation on day 1 between Him and Palmer, his only mention of Wiggles after asking Palmars opinion of him is this:
On November 16 2011 20:18 sandroba wrote:
I agree with what you said about wiggles and there is always the statistical benefit of lynching wiggles, even when there is no evidence on him =P
But seriously, his posts screams to me "look at me guyz, I'm being helpful and trying to find scum!". He seems to be trying to blend in too hard. I'd rather see some more from him before pushing for his lynch though, hopefully he will comply.
prplhz seems town to me this game, so maybe that means he is mafia? (j/k prpl =P)
errandor is interesting. His play this game is way different than any game I've played with him before, and one thing that's clear for sure is that he is trying his best to win this one. I'm leaning town, mainly because he is arguing against the hiro lynch which seems reasonable to me at this point.
Onto my weak scum suspect, Meapak: what do you think about this guy?
Agreeing with Palmar that Wiggles looks scummy, but kinda says he would not want to lynch him until there is more said from wiggles. this could be said in both a townie context as well as a scum trying to give his partner time. Its WIFOM, I know, but Sandroba does not say anything else till:
On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
A townie looking like he has cold feet? of a scum looking for another lynch. remember, he had already defended, me so he could not put his vote on me without looking really scummy. again, I know this is WIFOM, my gut says there may be something to it.
Now this is in know way a strong read, but I would like everyone to go back and look at sandroba. Its in know way a strong read, and I cant see from a scum perspective pushing a no lynch when they are not the main scum suspect...
Im down to answer any questions for a bit. I most likely will put my vote on Jay, but Im gonna hold of on that to spur some discussion.
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On November 20 2011 07:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Wait Erandorr, you have found something super scummy I did but you're not pointing it out? And if you're concerned about a no lynch then isn't voting hiro counter intuitive? iirc jay has more votes.
For the record @both sandroba and Erandorr: you've both said I'm scummy now. I think you should post your cases. I really don't mind dying if it helps clear things up. The final mafia is most likely amongst jay/wbg/hiro/me so if I need to die to make things apparent that's fine.
I agree with the bolded part. I know I look scummy, so I dont blame anyone for voting me. I will make my reads as best I can before I die, if need be.
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Shit Meapak, I am really tired and sort of don't want to write another wall of text right now so I will keep this short and probably not well written out.
1) You tried to push Hiro over Wiggles and get the pressure away from him.
2) You made it sound like the alternative to lynching Hiro would be a no lynch
3) You were very non commital about Wiggles but in ultra tunnel mode on Hiro without saying anything about anyone else for a very long time.
4)you set up Hiro for day2 lynch but never follow up and don't exactly comment on it
5)you say bugs is town then you are convinced he is scum and then go back to him being off the hook.
6) You call jay a super easy lynch and then lynch him because you are done with the newbie excuse... wait what? also you get away from a kind of hard lynch target in WBG
7) i hate the fact that you never explain the decisions , such as not going for hiro anymore, but instead just drop it. you only reply to that kind of stuff when you get asked about it specificly
There are points in your favor too and this is all very poorly formulated, but I would still appreciate if you could answer this.
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Yo Hiro, could you read my thoughts about you and answer them, please ?
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WBG btw my vote is on Hiro not you anymore.
It seems like im the one to go atm
Rofl at Hiro putting a case on Sandroba
Kinda ironic
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If i have to die can there be chocolate involved?
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On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:@Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea. I don't see what you are seeing in those posts, but hiro's posts in this game do not look like that. Also he's not focusing on finding townies in this game, and I don't even think the two games are comparable. Lastly, if the bolded were the case then I am not scum. I wanted Wiggles to be lynched, but I thought hiro was a better choice. If I were scum, I would've acted upon the fact that there were four votes left and hammered Wiggles. I'm very decisive as scum and not afraid of starting arguments, but I am afraid of things that make me look bad long term. Not hammering wiggles, I admit, made me look really bad. I also straddled the fence because I was unsure between hiro and wiggles, though my gut kept saying hiro was the better lynch. Ofc, at this point we don't know if hiro is scum or not, so I could very well still be right. I reasoned after the flip that it was unlikely though, since hiro voted fourth on Wiggles. I was the one who pointed this out to Meapak, who said the focus should be on me+hiro. If I were scum why would I point that out to Meapak, and basically give him a free pass to attack me? If I were scum I would have no interest in giving information to town, that would work against my win condition. I could have simply let Meapak chase after hiro because he missed the fact that hiro was the fourth vote on Wiggles. He is focusing on finding townies. Maybe this is because he doesn't trust his own scum hunting abilities and instead he tries to find townies that he can trust. I think he has more confidence as scum, since he knows he's wrong and that he can't possibly he right it's easier to be more assertive. You even complained about it yourself that his list of reads didn't contain a single scum read. Yes, it made you look bad that you didn't hammer Mr. Wiggles. You can say that you wanted him lynched as much as you want. You pointed out something that 6 townies would have figured out eventually (I knew it, I would have stated it if you hadn't). These are easy points for scum to get town credit, you point out something that's important but that's going to be figured out in a short while anyway.
There is nothing to suggest that hiro is looking for townies any more than he is looking for scum. I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when hiro hasn't even said anything about it himself.
Second, when the hell have you seen hiro play scum? How would you know how he would play scum, or what kind of confidence he would have as either alignment?
And I don't believe I complained that it contained no scum reads. He called meapak scum, but he didn't call me scum. That's what I pointed out. I pointed out the fact that he voted me despite never calling me scum. He said he thought meapak was red, so my concern was the disconnect between his thoughts and his vote.
Lastly, I wouldn't point out something like that as scum about my own scumbuddy before anyone else noticed it. That's dumb, since it wouldn't further my win condition. If I were scum with Wiggles I would have either bussed him when it was apparent he was going to die or I would have destroyed the thread in my attempt to cover it up and distract you guys. I'm not afraid of causing chaos when I'm mafia, because I know I can get away with it if I have to.
And, what's your point? I was the first to point out something important about wiggles, but your excuse is that it would've been figured out anyway, so I'm scum? Your logic makes no sense. I thought wiggles was scummy but hiro was scummier. So I voted hiro. You claim to adhere to Occam's Razor but you ignore the simplest explanation when it's staring you in the face.
On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them. This is WIFOM, though. I agree with you that Meapak doesn't look scum, but for different reasons than this. You can't simply assume scum won't make other scum look bad, because that's not always true. Think about it, I don't think Palmar would've said he thought the optimal play for scum day 1 was to bus unless it actually has happened. I didn't agree with it earlier but it's certainly possible, we just cannot rule things out based on unbased assumptions. That's how, for example, town often falls into the trap of getting a "confirmed townie" and letting him live. No, it is not WIFOM that two scum do not want a lynch to be between themselves on day1. They want both to make it through day1. Palmar said to ignore everything he said during the night including his hard bussing theory, a theory that also surprised me as I wrote in the thread. I don't propose lynching only between those who didn't vote for Mr. Wiggles, but I think that it is very much more likely that we find scum there so that's where I'm looking. We can think about something else later. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real. Wait again, how can you assume this? One person thinks jay looks coached, you think he doesn't look coached. Don't you see that there is no room here to just assume those things? We can't have it both ways, since between you and Meapak there's nothing objective that furthers one argument over the other. Yea, it's hard to be objective about whether someone looks coached or not. Same about whether someone looks genuine or fake or fabricate and all that. I can only say that I doubt Mr. Wiggles would go out without giving some advice to his newbie scum buddy. Mr. Wiggles put a lot of effort into the thread when he was about to get lynched, do you really think he just totally ignored jaybrundage in the QT? That would make no sense.
If what you think Wiggles did was effort, then I really have to question what you are talking about.
Wiggles rolled over and died, he did next to nothing to save himself. If you think he put a lot of effort into his case on Meapak then I don't really know if you're reading the same game I am.
Also, when and where did Palmar say to ignore what he said during the night? He died that night, he certainly couldn't have said it in retrospect unless I missed something.
On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage. Up till this statement you hadn't said anything scummy, but I find this really strange. You wanted to lynch me, but you didn't push it strongly because you wanted other people's approval? That's backward thinking, you make a case on someone you think is scum and THEN you see how other people react. Waiting to make a case because you want to hear other opinions is rather weird, because you won't usually hear much unless you actually make the case to begin with. Look through my games. I doubt I've ever pushed any lynch harder than this.
What?
Your defense is that you don't push lynches hard, so...then what? lol. You should have no fear of pushing a case if you're town, your apprehension is what is setting me off. I don't understand why you would be apprehensive when I know as town you push ideas very strongly. Your ideas might not always make sense but you don't wait around for people to agree with you before pushing them, normally.
On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days. - 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
- 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
- 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
- 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch. I hope you meant three votes and not four, since four votes means jay would already be hammered and you would be wasting your vote. Most of the rest of the post is rather weird because the best case in all of the situations is that we win the game and the worst case is we lose! (lol wut) I mean, what was the point of all of that? Yes, three of course. Yes, it's a weird post. I just wanted to show that I'd thought about it, in the end I arrived at the same conclusion as a lot of other people: it's not worth it. I'm not a statistics buff so I can't give you numbers but it just seems to risky and town is in a good position right now so I don't think it's worth it. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 03:56 prplhz wrote:
I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else.
I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him.
@sandroba
What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum. As sandro pointed out (sometime yesterday?) sandro actually, from a scum perspective, probably doesn't have much thread cred. Look at it this way; by the end of day 1 he was one of the most inactive players, he was relatively indecisive, and there was never any suspicion on him. Even now there has been no suspicion on him. That's an excellent opportunity for scum to open up an attack, since they love players like that. It makes it look as if they are doing real analysis, they are obviously making an original attack, since no one else found that person scummy, and analysis can be fabricated because the player is relatively inactive. When you think about it like that, it's not so far-fetched that a scum player would attack sandro. The bigger assumption is actually the one you're making, that a new player wouldn't attack sandro since he's a well-known good townie or whatever. That assumption relies on wiggles telling him that, and trying to figure out what scum would do in that kind of situation is very similar to predicting or making sense of night kills; only scum know that. sandroba has a lot of town credit, he hammered Mr. Wiggles. I don't think you could pick a worse day2 target than sandroba, especially for a new guy since he's gonna get destroyed no matter what. It's a bit hard to judge since jaybrundage is new but I just think he strikes me as a new guy with a very misguided attack on sandroba. A lot of new players think they've figured it out and that they're batman, that's what he uses to explain his late Mr. Wiggles vote too, a crazy plan that makes no sense. I think newbies like these and it fits on him, while I think that it's hard to overplay the newbie card as a newbie.
I disagree with you, sandroba wouldn't be a terrible choice for a scum to attack.
He's not the best and I agree with you on that; so then why would we consider optimal cases? Since jay is new he's not going to play optimally regardless of his alignment. It doesn't make much sense to push sandro from either alignment but it makes more sense from a scum perspective.
Yes, sandro hammered wiggles, but look at how jay keeps talking about Palmar's idea that it's hindering our thought process to eliminate the possibility scum would bus.
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WBG whats your thoughts on lynching hiro?
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like at this point, I'm not incredibly confident Jay is scum, but he's the best bet. I actually am super confident we will find scum today, but that's okay.
We have two shots before we need to make a call that will make or break the game. That's a great position to be in, particularly as today and tomorrow will be our information days.
We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again. We'll probably need to look hard at who might have considered bussing scum, since if Jay is not scum, and since I think Meapak is pretty town, scum would probably be in the prpl/Erandorr/hiro/sandro side.
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On November 20 2011 08:10 jaybrundage wrote:
WBG whats your thoughts on lynching hiro?
I don't think he's the best lynch for today.
Erandorr made some very good points about him, but honestly being the fourth vote on Wiggles, and how he has played since then has given me doubt.
When I reread the thread after wiggles and palmar flipped I wasn't confident in my day 1 read anymore.
If you are indeed town though, we'll probably need to reconsider hiro again.
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On November 20 2011 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again
Eh so nothing can be learned from my death? And you also agreeing with me about scum bussing all of a sudden.
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On November 20 2011 08:03 Erandorr wrote:Yo Hiro, could you read my thoughts about you and answer them, please ?
yeah, your reads are right. my post saying "would anyone like to lynch someone other than me/wiggles" looks bad, but I was tying to spur some discussion, albeit badly.
Wiggles makes a few post subtly referencing me. As well as not bringing me up when I was the major lynch target. I know Im town, so I think He was looking buddy up to me in case he dies, to make me look bad.
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On November 20 2011 07:19 Erandorr wrote:
Can we get a votecount (yeah I am lazy)
on ER shift, updating kind of hard.
Right now jay to be lynched
3 hours left in day
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On November 20 2011 08:14 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again Eh so nothing can be learned from my death? And you also agreeing with me about scum bussing all of a sudden.
Sure something can be learned from your death.
If you're scum, we win.
If you're town, like I said, we reevaluate again and move on. If you're town and you die, like I said, that probably means we need to heavily reconsider that scum bussed on day 1, because to me it is unlikely that Meapak is scum.
I will reread again since Erandorr has posted something (I just kinda skimmed it, sorry) about Meapak and I want to see for myself again if there's anything that I missed.
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hiro protagonist 2
jaybrundage
Erandorr
jaybrundage (4)
wherebugsgo
sandroba
Meapak_Ziphh
prplhz
With 7 people, 4 votes are needed for majority
24 hours remaining in the day
there
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On November 20 2011 08:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 08:03 Erandorr wrote:Yo Hiro, could you read my thoughts about you and answer them, please ? yeah, your reads are right. my post saying "would anyone like to lynch someone other than me/wiggles" looks bad, but I was tying to spur some discussion, albeit badly. Wiggles makes a few post subtly referencing me. As well as not bringing me up when I was the major lynch target. I know Im town, so I think He was looking buddy up to me in case he dies, to make me look bad.
Thats a really weak case. It doesnt even make much sense. He didnt mention you as a possible lynch because he wanted to buddy up with you because if he dies it makes you look kinda bad.
How about this he didnt mention you because your his mafia partner and after a bandwagon formed you had to join it or you would look even worse. If Hiro had not voted for Mr.Wiggles he would have been so obvious as mafia.
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wait 24 hours left in the day i though it was 4 ok so im not dead yet
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On November 18 2011 10:44 Palmar wrote:
just ignore the things ive a said during the night.
oh found what prpl was talking about.
I thought this was in reference to what he said about jay being cute. But, if you think it was game-relevant...then...okay. lol.
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wait what he said i was cute
this demands a reread
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On November 20 2011 08:23 jaybrundage wrote:
wait 24 hours left in the day i though it was 4 ok so im not dead yet
2 and half more hours till day ends
it's hard to edit on iphone
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On November 20 2011 08:27 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 08:23 jaybrundage wrote:
wait 24 hours left in the day i though it was 4 ok so im not dead yet 2 and half more hours till day ends
it's hard to edit on iphone
not your best day, huh ?
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way to break a mans spirits ouch
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On November 20 2011 08:29 jaybrundage wrote:
way to break a mans spirits ouch
you scum?
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The time he tried to buddy up to me:
On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell.
the time I point out that Wiggles did not discuss me:
On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
I thought it was scummy then, and I think he wanted to make me look bad in case he died. that, or he did not want to look like he was to much for a mislynch.
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EBWOP: that was responding to jay's post on me
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hiro protagonist (2)
jaybrundage
Erandorr
jaybrundage (5)
wherebugsgo
sandroba
Meapak_Ziphh
prplhz
hiro protagonist
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On November 20 2011 08:35 hiro protagonist wrote:
also,
#Vote: jaybrundage
The sad thing is that there actually is a possibility that this is town Hiro
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Voting with no explanation at all when the vote is not necessary to get a majority and you just made a case on someone else? What in the fuck.
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cant think of anything i want to say that i havent said
Hiro and WBG should be next on the list
gl :D
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On November 20 2011 08:43 Erandorr wrote:
Voting with no explanation at all when the vote is not necessary to get a majority and you just made a case on someone else? What in the fuck.
I all ready stated I would be fine with lynching Jay. I put my vote down because I had to run a errand, and I did not know if I was gonna be back before the lynch. Im not comfortable in lynching anyone else atm. What do you think about my post on sandroba?
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Night 2 - Mailing it in Jaybrundage the Vanilla Townie is dead
24 hours till End of Night, send in your actions to both me and Radfield
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Friendly warning Jaybrundage:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 19 2011 23:00 jaybrundage wrote:Ok well i think Sandroba misunderstood me I was ensuring we got majority. I see how you guys think Sandroba is town. Im curious btw can the mafia still talk to each other after one is dead about the game specifically? Well as i see it WBG and Hiro are the best candidates for mafia. Its wierd i wanted to go for Hiro but after Sandrobas read lots of people backed off. The assumption that mafia wouldnt bus day one is one we cant completely rely on. If Hiro was under suspicion and then Mr.Wiggles Hiro has to act quick to obtain town cred. And still the fact that Mr.Wiggles never once called out Hiro as scum. He did just about call out everyone else tho. Hiro seems like the next logic go for mafia. The only reason i have been so vocal is because i am town and all i got are my voice and my vote And i think the other reason people are defending me is because the DT prolly checked me and i showed up green.
I realize I posted the role PMs in the OP, but I highly recommend you not post things like this in the future. Had I not placed the role PMs in the OP, I likely would have modkilled you for that line, as you would basically be posting a PM from the host in an effort to prove you are town. I realize you were not doing it with any malicious intent, but I feel that as a new player you should be appropriately warned.
GG
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also, rest assured that Jaybrundage was brutally murdered in some over the top gory fashion.
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-_-
I'll be rereading the thread again and will post my thoughts in the morning when I'm awake. Feel free to discuss, Europeans.
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On November 20 2011 19:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
-_-
I'll be rereading the thread again and will post my thoughts in the morning when I'm awake. Feel free to discuss, Europeans.
meh
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Not impressed ^.^
So now that jay is dead, who would you like to go for? Also I wrote a ton of stuff before the lynch what do you think about that.
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Would be cool if Meapak_Ziphh would shed some more light on his flip flopping on wherebusgo during yesterday.
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Yea I actually like the Meapak_Ziphh lynch for tomorrow instead of wherebugsgo. I like how wherebugsgo handled the role block discussion and I don't like how Meapak_Ziphh did.
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Okay discard that, I'm tired and I'm watching MLG. I still like wherebugsgo better for lynch tomorrow than Meapak_Ziphh.
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???
Prpl you don't make any sense.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 3
Erandorr the Vanilla Townie has been shot!
Day ends in 48 hours, at 02:00 GMT (+00:00), Tuesday Nov 22(my Bday!)
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Who do you want to lynch wherebugsgo?
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Okay I still want wherebusgo dead.
##Vote wherebugsgo
Does anybody disagree with this?
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I don't have much time ATM, I'm on my phone. Today I'd like to hear from hiro, meapak, and sandro. I'm torn between meapak and hiro; you can make a case for either player for either alignment. Hiro vote Wiggles, so that makes him less likely to be scum to me. Meapak's behavior is more town-aligned, but he didn't make a vote on Wiggles. They're like opposites.
Sandro I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Prpl I'd strongly suggest that you build a case, since I really can't say anything other than "I'm not scum" at this point. I've already addressed your earlier points and defending myself will be a further waste of time today. I'll answer any questions you have, but if you are town (which think you are) then you should weigh in on Meapak/hiro.
If you don't want to do this, then I really wonder if I've got the wrong read and you're not actually town.
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Actually that's dumb, I could've just said I want to hear from everyone.
I'm tired :/
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WBG I think you're town.
Prphlz I think you're town.
Hiro I'm on the fence but after last night's kill, and with my new hypothesis I think you're town.
Sandroba I think you're scum and that you bussed Wiggles day one. There's really no other explanation of why you didn't die last night.
Think about it, you and Palmar start the lynch on Wiggles, night one Palmar dies because you and him look like the towniest townies that ever towned. Logic dictates that you die next... why didn't you die? Erandorr didn't look super town, prplhz/WBG/hiro/me don't look super town either (as in we've all had people call us out at some point). This leaves you as the best shot Sandroba... and yet you're still with us. I'll make a proper case tomorrow, I'm just checking in real quick so people know how I'm thinking atm.
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The reason I didn't get shot is prob because we have 5/6 chance of having a protection role and scum can't afford to shoot me. Seeing that there was no cop claim till now that makes it 99% likely we have a protection role and if scum shot me they would confirm 2 town and auto lose. So yeah. I think you or hiro is the last scum, but I'm still trying to decide which one.
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@Meapak_Ziphh
You help me lynch wherebugsgo today, I'll help you lynch sandroba tomorrow. Deal?
Also, if there is a cop somewhere he kinda needs to claim today, but yea I agree with sandroba that that is very unlikely.
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5 hours without anything. Meapak_Ziphh how do you feel about my offer?
Man, if wherebugsgo doesn't flip scum then I seriously need to get my brain checked.
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On November 21 2011 18:38 prplhz wrote:
@Meapak_Ziphh
You help me lynch wherebugsgo today, I'll help you lynch sandroba tomorrow. Deal?
Also, if there is a cop somewhere he kinda needs to claim today, but yea I agree with sandroba that that is very unlikely.
yo this isn't Pokemon card trading, it's mafia. Since I'm town and I'm leaning town on sandro that little trade of yours would, I bet, lose us the game.
Hiro is sliding by with no activity. He's done absolutely nothing, never sticks his neck out, never contributes to discussion. IIRC his vote yesterday was useless, it was made after the hammer. He's most suspicious to me because of those reasons. Erandorr also pointed out very good reasons why hiro was scum. So I disagree with you, Meapak, on why Erandorr died. It's certainly possible Erandorr died because hiro is scum.
As of now I'm pretty unsure too but I really don't have anything better.
##vote hiro protagonist
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also happy birthday Radfield, you scum.
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yo, where the hell is everyone?
are we going to let scum just slide by today? Wtf??!
*pokes thread with a stick*
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'd do a vote count but.........
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HEY I VOTED
happy bday
Meapak_Ziphh, hiro protagonist, where the hell are you guys?
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The frustration that shall appear in the following image is reflected by my opinion of this game:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MEwgu.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +fwiw, I'm going to cancel at 30 minutes
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On November 21 2011 18:38 prplhz wrote:
@Meapak_Ziphh
You help me lynch wherebugsgo today, I'll help you lynch sandroba tomorrow. Deal?
Also, if there is a cop somewhere he kinda needs to claim today, but yea I agree with sandroba that that is very unlikely.
No because I think WBG is town. Also Sandroba's reason of why he didn't die made sense. Hiro is the best choice now. Enough has been said about him that there really needs to be no rehashing. He also conveniently disappears once the pressure is off him, he's done that like three times now.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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Sorry again for my absence. life got busy all of the sudden. I cant talk much right now, but I will post my thoughts when I finish work in 6-7 hours from now =/
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On November 22 2011 09:43 hiro protagonist wrote:
Sorry again for my absence. life got busy all of the sudden. I cant talk much right now, but I will post my thoughts when I finish work in 6-7 hours from now =/
...
You managed to appear any time someone calls you out. That means you're reading the thread but just not posting :/
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Okay I never really intended to go through with that deal anyway. I'd rather lynch Meapak_Ziphh over hiro protagonist and sandroba, what do you guys think?
sandroba isn't scum or he wouldn't have shut down the hiro protagonist lynch that hard and with that little reason and then stuck with it, when Mr. Wiggles was looking suspicious and ended up getting lynched.
I would like to lynch wherebugsgo and then I'd like to lynch Meapak_Ziphh.
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Meapak what do you think of prpl?
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On November 22 2011 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Meapak what do you think of prpl?
I'm leaning town on him. He was the 3(?) person to vote for Wiggles. Had he not voted for Wiggles the lynch might have stalled out. He could have voted for Hiro with you and I and suddenly it's Hiro who's close to the majority.
Look here's the thing WBG. I am really having a hard time thinking you're scum. You've acted fairly protown in my eyes especially when compared to someone like hiro. Now we could lynch you and then lynch me (or the other way around) but I just have a terrible feeling about that. If you don't flip scum then we lose (I'm town, I'll be the next mislynch if we decide to lynch you and I). I don't think you'll flip scum. This then means that scum voted Wiggles and it's much more likely to be hiro than prp imo.
I'd love to hear what sandroba thinks.
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hiro protagonist isn't very experienced and he's not among the best players either. Do you really think he would have voted 4th for Mr. Wiggles instead of just going for you and then Mr. Wiggles wouldn't have been lynched. You need to realize that wherebugsgo is scummy and he needs to die.
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prpl you just keep saying I'm scummy and your case is terrible. You're wasting our time right now.
On November 22 2011 10:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Meapak what do you think of prpl? I'm leaning town on him. He was the 3(?) person to vote for Wiggles. Had he not voted for Wiggles the lynch might have stalled out. He could have voted for Hiro with you and I and suddenly it's Hiro who's close to the majority. Look here's the thing WBG. I am really having a hard time thinking you're scum. You've acted fairly protown in my eyes especially when compared to someone like hiro. Now we could lynch you and then lynch me (or the other way around) but I just have a terrible feeling about that. If you don't flip scum then we lose (I'm town, I'll be the next mislynch if we decide to lynch you and I). I don't think you'll flip scum. This then means that scum voted Wiggles and it's much more likely to be hiro than prp imo. I'd love to hear what sandroba thinks.
I actually agree with you, since I think you're town as well. Lynching you and me in any order will lose us the game.
Let's kill hiro, and then afterward we'll need to reevaluate. I'm not convinced on the sandro case as of yet but atm anything is a possibility. prpl looks town and he's normally weird, but the things he is saying aren't making any sense at all.
Palmar was right in that scum would probably have bussed day 1.
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Duh, of course wherebugsgo is going to look protown if you compare him to hiro protagonist. wherebugsgo has a very solid scum play and hiro protagonist does not have a very good town play. wherebugsgo is setting you up for an agreement where you lynch hiro protagonist, he is buddying with you to get hiro protagonist lynched and he's flip flopped on hiro protagonist all the way, he only wants him lynched because you want him dead. Then tomorrow he's gonna shoot either me or sandroba, doesn't matter and you two will lynch the remaining dude. He's always setting you up to lynch one of the guys who voted for Mr. Wiggles day one by saying that Palmar was right that scum would probably have bussed day1, but Palmar said 15 mins before deadline that everything he said during the night should be ignored. wherebugsgo claims that this only referred to Palmar's comments that jaybrundage was "cute" but that doesn't make any sense, why would Palmar come in 15 mins before deadline, on a night where he probably felt very threatened since he always gets shot night1, and then make his final words "the thing i said about jaybrundage, that he's cute, just ignore that."? Why would he say "the things i've said during the night" if he was only referring to one single thing, jaybrundage being cute? It makes no sense. wherebugsgo is scum you absolutely need to vote him today.
Also the night kills make perfect sense, scum felt very threatened after day1 and they needed to shoot Palmar or sandroba. That was a chance to take after they got behind day1 and when that worked out they're targeting less prominent townies because now they can play it more safe. Shooting Palmar was a nice, if a little risky move by wherebugsgo.
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The thing is prpl, wbg is my least likely suspect of being scum after you, based on behavior alone. I already pointed out why I don't think he is scum. I'd rather take my chances with hiro today. Everyone seems very concerned about who to lynch today and people are strugling to make the right choice. Everyone besides hiro. That's since day 1, he only pops in right before the lynch and votes. He is prob the last scum, since everybody else has more things pointing to them being town.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
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That fact that wiggles got lynch so easily day 1 means that scum had very little influence over town at that point and couldn't push anybody else as a lynch. At that point a lot of people were suspicious of hiro, so if he went against wiggles lynch it would have made them both very obvious. He really had no choice but to bus wiggles, because with that much suspicion onto him, his best shot was that people that thought he was mafia wouldn't be confortable voting for someone he was voting for.
That also explains why wiggles chose to push suspicion onto errandor/meapak instead of hiro, which would be way easier if his hope was only to avoid being lynched. Hiro had 2 votes at that point, and 2 more people (errandor/prpl) willing to vote for him instead. Instead he goes for MZ which had no votes and only one person (me) slightly suspicious of him. I guess they were trying to go for a no lynch, since 2 of their members were in the chopping block.
Wbg had also 2 votes at that point, but those were mainly random votes and nobody had a real case on wbg. Wbg is an influential player, and were he scum, he would have fought the lynch harder and try to push somebody else. As scum he uses pseudo-townie traits of agressiviness and certainty to push the lynch onto other people, but this game we see that wbg wasn't really sure if he was right on his case on hiro (since me/palmar dissagreed with it) or the case on wiggles was better. That seemed to genuinely transpire in his posts. Yeah, he could be playing to especially fool me, but then he would have to worry about the rest of town going after him (meapak on day 2 and now you today). So my conclusion is that wbg would have played this game very differently were he scum with wiggles and I'm going to stick to my guns.
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Not "now [me] today", I was on his back yesterday too!
I'm gonna stick to my guns too, I'm voting wherebugsgo and I suggest everybody do the same. We lynched a guy I had a townie read on yesterday, I'm not going to repeat that mistake again today. I really thought you'd drop all this lynching-people-you-can't-really-read thing after jaybrundage flipped town but apparently not. hiro protagonist is town and wherebugsgo is scum and it's pretty frustrating that you can't see this. Also, this game is lost, nobody else wants to lynch wherebugsgo except maybe hiro protagonist and he's gone after today, sandroba wants to kill me and Meapak_Ziphh wants to kill sandroba.
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That newfound confidence is kinda interesting prplhz. How come you are so sure wbg is scum? Are my arguments for him being town that poor?
And why exactly isn't hiro scum? You seemed to think so previously.
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Newfound confidence? I was confident yesterday too but I have a very hard time writing cases that actually convince people. It is all based on the simple idea: scum don't want to die day1.
I don't think Mr. Wiggles was bussed and I don't think he tried to bus anyone. This leaves wherebugsgo. This is a very simple premise with a very simple conclusion, yet you'd rather think "scum probably lynched each other on day1". I think this is very weird. On top of that, I have a much easier time thinking that hiro protagonist is town than that wherebugsgo is town. wherebugsgo did some questionable decision making day1 and I don't think he's done better since then.
I don't know much about Mr. Wiggles, but judging from his scum play this game, he is not the greatest scum player ever. I am not the greatest town player ever but even I caught on to him. (sorry dude) I have played a few games with hiro protagonist and right now he strikes me as town. I don't think he would have the audacity to throw the 4th vote on his scum buddy on day1. His activity level and his reads so far have seemed to me like his usual town play. It is also worth mentioning that he just quit TL Mafia XVII because he had some urgency, so he's not just doing the scummy lurker thing right now.
Man. I was really hoping that you'd drop the lynch-people-who-are-bad-townies-because-you-can't-get-a-good-read-on-them-thing after jaybrundage flipped town. I'm not going to vote for another townie again.
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Let's look at evidence shall we?
Hiro starts day one very sketchy with the whole "I knew he was trolling" deal, when he stated that it was logical to vote wbg day and that he wasn't trolling. Yet he doesn't vote for wbg. He goes after meapak who is calling him out on useless posting (like "I will take a hard stance on anyone that tries to derail this thread!" or "Let's start this off on the right foot!"). He later says that scum will try to pretend they are contributing without actually adding anything, which is exactly what he is doing at that point.
On November 16 2011 08:30 hiro protagonist wrote:
Well, If everything I say is obvious, and does not need stating, perhaps I should just stop posting...
I dont know, perhaps its because the activity level right now is bad? What else is there to say other than the obvious? How can we analysis if know one is saying anything. Im the current lynch target which is fine, but at least Im talking. So perhaps everyone else could come in and give us some insight please ^_^
Here is some more obvious stuff that does not need to be said: one mafia is almost surly lurking due to the activity in the thread so far. I think its very likely that one of Palmar, Meapak, Wiggles, or Sandroba is scum. Right now Im leaning towards Meapak.
He says here he is having a hard time coming up with relevant things to talk about and scum does have a hard time doing analyses on anyone out of the blue because they KNOW they are innocent. The bolded statement is something that shouldn't be obvious to anybody besides mafia, who knows their buddy wiggles is lurking. Anyway he keeps going for meapak out of pure omgus, he posted no real reasons why meapak is scum.
On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
OK, here are my reads so far:
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
4.Meapak_Ziphh- leaning Red. Its not anything that he said, more its his overall style in the game so far. He jumps on easy targets AKA both my "generic post" and Wiggle's first post. He undercuts my statement of trying to start things on the right foot by saying its worthless, something that is clearly a mafia agenda IMO. Will be watching.
And now for my vote. and I will place it on WBG. here is why:
-Bugs still has the same arrogant aggressive Behavior as every other game hes played. He is wrong most of the time as town, and It has cost the town the game on more than one occasion.
-I dont think we should allow someone that can be so obtuse and grating a free pass.
-I simply am gonna ignore WBGs for the rest of the game, but that will be easier once he is no longer in it.
##Vote: Wherebugsgo
Here are his thoughts on the relevant subjects (the rest was mostly null reads with no comments). He still thinks meapak might be red and votes wbg because of the same reason he refused to vote for him before. Note that now both his and wbg's wagon is picking up pace, so it's convenient to place his vote on wbg.
His next post is when wiggles already has 3 votes, he has 2 and I had said I'd be waiting for wiggles response before I vote. At that point he could either support wiggles or mz as those are the lynches being pushed besides his. Now if you are scum at that point and having 2 people voting for you and 3 for your partner what do you do? Even if you both manage to scape the lynch (which is very unlikely at that point), after MZ flips townie you are in deep shit, since a lot of people already suspect you. So he does a miraculous 180 and even admits that MZ was right in thinking he was scum:
On November 17 2011 08:43 hiro protagonist wrote:Ok, first off, Meapak: This is his first game relevint post: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical. Solid in calling out people. aggresive. I make a point that my post was not worthless, arguing that posting it early in the day and when most people had not posted much the reason that it had worth. To "set the tone" i said. Meapak disagrees and we argue some back and forth when he responds to something I said with this: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 07:13 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On November 16 2011 07:02 hiro protagonist wrote:
No shit mafia want to look like town without actually trying to help. They also want a bad atmosphere to hide in. By saying my post is worthless, your saying that its cool to spam, argue, and tunnel, which mafia love. You are pushing pro mafia ideas. So my FoS still stands. wow... just wow. This is the worst logic fail I've ever seen. I said your post was worthless because, news flash, it was. Me saying that your post is worthless =/= me promoting spam and tunneling and whatnot. Just because I said you're fluff posting doesn't mean I support "pro mafia ideas." Congrats on becoming a better lynch targer then Mr. Wiggles. His logic his correct and I have to admit that my logic is weak, as well as hypocritical. something that WBG will later bring up. he then disperse's for awhile comes back with this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 06:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So Wiggles, please show me where I "make multiple aggressive moves towards people before settling on hiro." Your whole little case against me is essentially a rehash of what hiro wrote. It was bad when hiro wrote it and it's bad now.
Still, I don't think Wiggles is the best lynch for today. The case against Wiggles started when sandroba decided to start playing the game. Palmar jumped on board and those two got things started. Now the case isn't completely baseless. I've seen Wiggles play third party and scum and his current play does smell suspiciously like that. However I'd rather lynch hiro, who's scummy behavior has only increased since last time I brought him up. Notice that since the case against Wiggles was brought up, hiro has posted ZERO times. This is a huge scumtell in that once the pressure's off he goes back to lurking. A townie would still be contributing, however a mafia would want to get out of the discussion as soon as the pressure is off. no changing his mind. My conclusion is that he is actively pushing a lynch based on solid logic. also comments about a few others like wiggles, Erandorr, giving his opinion on them. Giving him a second look, I less inclined to think he is scum, but will be watching him as the days go on. now, on to wiggles: so, other than his "throw out a lure" first post he has only posted twice. spolierd for length + Show Spoiler +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
...lol
What you said had no value. I'll just let you know that. Scum like to say things that have no content because it doesn't force them to defend themselves. I'll let you know that as well. Calling you out on bullshit isn't scummy.
Nice FoS bro, the heat getting to you already?
@Mr. Wiggles and Palmar: I know you both are active on TL right now, get in here and post. I wasn't active. I'm home now, and before that I was just on at school for a half hour at lunch, so I posted something in hopes of there being discussion when I came home, discussion which up until a little while ago has been largely absent. The "let's lynch random player X" train wasn't exactly full of content when it was completely off-hand and based on nothing. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Until recently, no one has really produced any actual content, in my eyes. We had 4 pages which were basically Palmar asking to lynch WBG before he'd even posted and then for RNGing the lynch and people telling him no. Neither of those even needed a response, they were just bad ideas with no discussion value besides giving people something to bash on. It's like when someone comes up with a bad plan for town and we spend 10 pages attacking it. Everyone can do it and it doesn't produce real content. Basically, I wanted something to read (which I got), and my post drew out a few reactions which I liked. Erandorr:He's trying hard to be GMarshal. He wants to lead the town along with generic advice and constant appeals to do what's best for town (activity, etc.). This can be seen by the quick reaction to my post, pointing out that it was useless and wouldn't generate good discussion. This is good in and of itself, but he's someone who has to be watched to see if he actually starts to give concrete information on other players in the game, or just continues to act as the "advising townie". Basically, whether he keeps up with the generic advice or starts to contribute concrete and strong analysis. Meapak_Ziphh:Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is. jaybrundage:Right now, he's being a sheep. That's either due to the fact that he's new, or because he's trying to blend in. He got called out early, and after that he's just sort of been going along with majority opinion. Case in point: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 04:12 Erandorr wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Or you could talk about the game. As in waht you are proposing that does not really help us but instead wastes a ton of time. Maybe MZ would make a great Mayor in general, but his only post was shit. Why not talk about what is already there and how do you think your suggestion could help in any way? In my opinion it does not get anything going because it in n o way puts pressure on Scum or forces them to reveal information Turned around it also does not help establishing townies either. For example I respect Sandro a lot (because he helps me with my dwarf fortress ! ) and he is a good Scumhunter. But I could say he would make a great mayor if I was Town OR Scum because it is not related to this game and the alignments and you seem to ignore what people(in this case MZ) already did until now. At this point I actually just want to lynch the Lurker who produced the least amount of content at the end of this day. Anyone else like that Idea? Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also WBG, it's time to show your ugly mug in here. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 06:30 jaybrundage wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Honestly I do have to agree that the only Mr.Wiggles post seems very off topic. He says its going slowly and then decides to start a discussion that is pretty irrelevant. Did you have any point in this pick a mayor thing, and if so what? I also am rather dismayed that WBG hasn't posted yet. On November 15 2011 10:49 hiro protagonist wrote:
Im not trolling Also this in regards to lynching wbg On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! TO this is quite worrying. Although i do see the point of this post not completely irrelevant just establishing some guidelines which maybe obvious to some but always good to have a reminder imo. AND I STILL WANT WBG TO POST especially seeing as he was the first topic of discussion Something to be aware of as we approach LYLO. Wherebugsgo:This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. Now one thing has caught my eye, and thats the following: first in his post he talks about Meapak: Show nested quote +Meapak_Ziphh:
Here's our aggressive player. He jumped on my post a lot more forcefully than Erandorr did, before quickly moving on to Palmar, WBG, and then finally Hiro. I'm interested in seeing how he plays after Day 1, because right now he's just cycling through targets, and that could either be him as a townie trying to pressure and find scum, or as scum trying to elicit a response from a skittish townie or blue and take us to a mislynch. He needs to be watched for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is.
Remember this bolded part. So when there is some heat on, says this: Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 00:52 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh on the other hand, has shown that he's definitely scummy. He was trying to play the hyper-aggressive townie, but he hasn't played his role quite well enough. Notice that he makes aggressive moves towards multiple players in a short period of time, before settling on hiro. This is enough to establish himself as "scumhunting", but then he never follows up. There's barely any additional pressure on hiro after his vote, he doesn't try to convince anyone else in the town to vote for hiro, he doesn't respond to what I said about him, and he basically disappears from the thread. This is incredibly scummy, and contrary to everything a townie should be doing after early aggression.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh So instead of "watching for how he forms his analysis and what the content of it is" he votes on Meapak for disappearing . thats a bit of a jump from "watch this guys post" to "He is scum". the other thing that has bothered me about Wiggles is that he makes no mention of me at all, when the rest of town has put up there thoughts on me. Why leave me out wiggles when I was looking very scummy? So based on what others have said, as well as my own reads, I am be OK with lynching Wiggles. All the rest: I have a funny feeling about Prphz, and I would be OK with lynching him. WBG is slightly more readable and reasonable so far this game, which in its self makes me feel funny but I cant deny his actions have been protown so far. Ill need more time to read over Sand and Palmar Ill be around till slightly before lynch
Yes, he suddenly no longer thinks meapak is scum and attacks the person who is going after him! Sometimes you do change your mind and alterate your reads completely, but that normally takes someone flipping something that completely destroys your previous reads.
Later errandor attacks him on his connection to wiggles to which he responds:
On November 20 2011 08:14 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 08:03 Erandorr wrote:Yo Hiro, could you read my thoughts about you and answer them, please ? yeah, your reads are right. my post saying "would anyone like to lynch someone other than me/wiggles" looks bad, but I was tying to spur some discussion, albeit badly. Wiggles makes a few post subtly referencing me. As well as not bringing me up when I was the major lynch target. I know Im town, so I think He was looking buddy up to me in case he dies, to make me look bad.
On November 20 2011 08:32 hiro protagonist wrote:The time he tried to buddy up to me: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
So, my post got me some information that I consider valuable and more information on certain players than the rest of the thread did before that (besides maybe Hiro). Too bad no one was really dumb and actually responded to my question though, because most townies here are smart enough to know not to and it would have been an easy scum-tell. the time I point out that Wiggles did not discuss me: Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 12:28 hiro protagonist wrote:
2.Mr Wiggles- null read. His first post was obviously trying to draw out reactions. both scum and town would can do that so it sheds no alignment. His second post has his reads on everyone one that responded to him. He does not give his opinion on the current lynch target.
I thought it was scummy then, and I think he wanted to make me look bad in case he died. that, or he did not want to look like he was to much for a mislynch.
Which doesn't make sense, because the time referenced here wiggles was not on the chopping block, so the thought of him getting lynched day 1 prob never crossed his mind. Also he says he thought he was scummy then, but he doesn't state that in his reads, he put him as null.
So there you go. Couple all that with the fact that he doesn't give a shit about this or the previous lynch, he popped in late to vote jay who he never mentioned before in any of his posts, you'll see that there is a high possibility of him being the last scum.
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Actually prpl that still doesn't make sense. Scum not bussing still leaves meapak. Why are you so dead set on focusing on me? Why is it that you do nothing but tunnel me when you can use the same reasoning for another player in the game?
If your argument is that Wiggles mentioned Meapak, then I don't think you understand the difference between bussing and distancing.
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You know, when I type that much I expect everyone to comment.
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I'll comment in full once I'm out of class. I'm reading now on my phone while eating breakfast lol (it's 7:45 here)
I should hopefully have adequate time to respond in about 5-6 hours.
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fuck it, I keep writing things and realizing sandro has already said them. hiro has to be scum at this point, 0 defense and it's like 1 hour to lynch.
I agree with everything sandro has said. In the amazingly remote chance that hiro is town, we can reevaluate later, with hiro gone it'd be only 4 left. Nothing to do but wait.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Day 3 Vote Count
Hiro Protagonist (3)
Wherebugsgo
Meapak_Ziphh
Sandroba
Wherebugsgo (1)
prplhz
Hiro Protagonist has not voted.
With 5 players remaining it takes 3 votes for majority.
15 minutes remaining in the day.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Night 3
Hiro Protagonist the Vanilla Townie has been lynched!
24 hours until night ends.
Please send your night actions to both me and Chaoser.
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dammit
Well my guess is prplhz or sandroba will die tonight. WBG it's between you and I. I guess I was an idiot trusting you but at least we've still got one more shot to win.
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On sandroba
During day1 he pretty much shut down he hiro protagonist lynch while directing some attention over to Mr. Wiggles. This doesn't seem scummy to me at all, but at the same time, maybe it was clear that hiro protagonist wasn't going to get lynched and that Mr. Wiggles had said something scummy.
These are posts from before sandroba's that are skeptical about lynching hiro protagonist while questioning Mr. Wiggles plan:
About Mr. Wiggles
About Mr. Wiggles
About Mr. Wiggles
About Mr. Wiggles
About hiro protagonist
4 people had pointed out that Mr. Wiggles' first post was terrible. I don't know if it was clear that hiro protagonist wasn't going to get lynched, the guy did mostly only scummy stuff. If sandroba was scum it would have been very risky for him to say that hiro protagonist wasn't scum and that Mr. Wiggles should be the one we should focus on. He does leave the door open for lynching jaybrundage though.
His vote was the 5th vote on Mr. Wiggles, meaning that he effectively sealed the deal. jaybrundage had said since the beginning of the game that no lynch was bad bad so he clearly wanted somebody dead. The alternative to Mr. Wiggles was hiro protagonist who had two votes.
sandroba's next big post came 30 mins before the deadline. At this point jaybrundage had already voted for Mr. Wiggles and Mr. Wiggles was effectively dead. Pretty much I think sandroba has a habit this game of getting somebody lynched, and then pushing for them after that. He's seemed kinda lazy all game, maybe he just doesn't want to lynch anybody without an analysis but it's always late because he's being lazy.
What bothers me about sandroba in general is that he has now pushed for two green townies. He claims to have problems with inexperienced players and he wants to tie Mr. Wiggles to a person with no town pull. In Team Melee Mafia the guy cast two votes on day1, nailing both scum. What I'm trying to say is that he's usually a beast, but this game he's just been lynching into not-so-great players because he has this idea that Mr. Wiggles was paired with a guy with no influence, and because he can't read not-so-great players for shit. After rereading again, I'm still thinking town though.
Yea that was just some thoughts on this game so far. I'm gonna write more later. I'm very dissatisfied that we didn't kill wherebugsgo instead of the two greenies but I just don't think that sandroba is scum.
Un an unrelated note I noticed that Palmar was 1st vote on Mr. Wiggles, he was 1st shot. Erandorr was 2nd vote on Mr. Wiggles, he was 2nd shot. This doesn't bode well for me, even though I think maybe they were also shot because of their skills
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prpl can you explain the point of that post?
You said all that stuff about sandro only to call him town at the end rofl
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Lol yea I was planning to do something on everybody but then I felt like maybe I'd rather play some skyrim for a while. Calling sandroba town also means that either you or Meapak_Ziphh is scum which has been my point ever since we lynched Mr. Wiggles.
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United States22154 Posts
This thread was yellow. That made me sad.
The crisis has been averted however.
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United States22154 Posts
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I AM NO LONGER SICK! NO POPPING OF POPCORN UNLESS I DO IT FIRST! SEND IN ALL ACTIONS PLEASE! DAY ENDS IN 8 HOURS!
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United States22154 Posts
On November 24 2011 03:04 chaoser wrote:I AM NO LONGER SICK! NO POPPING OF POPCORN UNLESS I DO IT FIRST! SEND IN ALL ACTIONS PLEASE! DAY ENDS IN 8 HOURS!
CHAOSER SPEAKS IN THE ROYAL CANTERLOT VOICE
+ Show Spoiler +
/back to lurking.
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On November 24 2011 03:06 sandroba wrote: 
lol
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Sorry for my poor play this game guys.
GL town! you can do it
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yum
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On Meapak_Ziphh
Right so before Mr. Wiggles died he made this post about some Palmar, me, and more importantly, Meapak_Ziphh. I am saying "scum does not want scum to die on day, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't push for another scum when he's on the chopping block, because this would mean that scum would die". People are saying "lol haven't u herd about distancing?". I understand the concept but this is not what Mr. Wiggles was doing, he was actually trying to get Meapak_Ziphh. If you don't trust me, then trust Palmar who said it looked like a genuine push in the next post. Now you can say "but this is still all just distancing." but if they had already decided that the lynch was going to be between them, that one of them would have to die, then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh just move his vote over to Mr. Wiggles? If, at this point in the game, they had already decided to distance themselves from each other then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh distance himself from Mr. Wiggles?
Meapak_Ziphh's play this game hasn't been totally impressive, but it is very hard to do something impressive in a game this small. He voted hiro protagonist because hiro protagonist was way scummier. I totally agree with him on this actually, the amount of scummyness that hiro protagonist had displayed at this point was way bigger than what Mr. Wiggles had done, but in the light of what you should expect from those players Mr. Wiggles was still the scummier. I don't expect Meapak_Ziphh to know this I don't think he's ever thought very hard about hiro protagonist before. He also very subtly and offhandedly points out very important points throughout the game, but not for the purpose of bringing them up later as a defense or anything. I think this is very townie of him.
I had more but ...
On wherebugsgo
Oh shit it's almost deadline. Well he's scum and I have some points but I can't post them lol. I'll post if I'm still alive in 5 mins.
Not only is wherebugsgo the last scum, he's also the role blocker. If there is a role cop and he didn't claim then the guy is a moron, and nobody here is a moron so we can rule that out. This makes this a 2of3 setup. If there is a jailer out there and he didn't claim yet, that's is slightly more understandable, but it is still useless and I think it's very unlikely. This makes this a 2of2 setup. I'd say that there is a 98% chance that town has a doc left and no other blues. wherebugsgo probably knew this way before I even said anything. I think he has a good chance of pulling off a shot tonight though it all comes down to WIFOM. I think he's been enjoying this game so far, keeping me alive knowing that he's scum but not being able to do anything about it like a modern day Cassandra.
If I'm not alive tomorrow, which is very likely as nobody would protect me but WIFOM, please please don't make the lynch between you two Meapak_Ziphh and sandroba. Lynch wherebugsgo.
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Day 4 - Another One Bites The Dus--Oh Wait...
No one is dead
You have 48 hours to decide a lynch
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Yea this doesn't mean anything, we're still at lylo, although with three townies who can't agree. No idea if wherebugsgo hit or not but ...
##Vote wherebugsgo
And I'm gonna finish my post.
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o_O
I was gonna post this right before deadline but I was in a LoL match.
I'm the jailor.
I protted Erandorr night 1 and then prpl night 2. This makes prpl 95% town (the only chance he's not is that I was roleblocked by him). Last night I chose to prot sandro.
This either means sandro is the scum, or sandro was hit by Meapak.
I don't believe I was roleblocked when I checked prpl because he called me out on my soft blue claim in my first post (though I never asked him how he knew because I was afraid other people would catch onto me being blue if I mentioned it) and since he caught it I'm sure he would have killed me instead if he was scum.
So, yeah, prpl pretty much has to be town, it's sandro or meapak. I'll come back with more thoughts later.
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Alright
On wherebugsgo
Mr. Wiggles only touches on him once and that is right here:
On November 16 2011 10:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
[...]
Wherebugsgo:
This is interesting, because he comes in rather later than everyone else and puts effort into attacking my post after most people had left it. It's a case of people jumping on a bad post and repeating what had already been said, because bashing something bad is easy and gets you brownie-points from town. It was mostly left alone until he brought it up again, so I'm curious as to why he did so. He didn't contribute anything that hadn't been said already, so what's the motivation? I mostly see bad players and scum do this, and I don't consider WBG to be a bad player.
[...]
This is distancing is anything is distancing. It is subtle, it doesn't make sense and he feels the need to point out how "This is interesting". He also talks about other players but he stays more analytic when talking about them. In this post he has a hard time coming up with anything on wherebugsgo, so he feels like he has to point out that what he's saying here is actually interesting then he says that he is scummy, but why does he think he's scummy? Because he pointed out that Mr. Wiggles was scummy, which he was. This isn't scummy at all, what Mr. Wiggles does here is very subtle distancing. While his entire post seemed fake, this seemed more fake than the rest of it in my eyes.
On November 18 2011 20:10 sandroba wrote:
WBG I think is town because he didn't attack my credibility even though he could have easily done so and get away with it since I've posted very little in the first 24 hours.
This is insanity. You are saying that "wbg is town because he didn't do this scummy thing that he would always do" this is WIFOM. I know you think that wherebugsgo would have tried to lynch Meapak_Ziphh over Mr. Wiggles but I think he was very much afraid this would have tied them too hard together.
I think wherebugsgo has also changed his style considerably from day1 to the next days, we all have but wherebugsgo in a different way. wherebugsgo's town is usually somewhat aggressive but most of all it is KICKASS. Look at day1, he made a huge post laying everything down and voting hiro protagonist. Look at him since then, he's just bandwagon'd sandroba. He doesn't really do any active scum hunting or analysis which really doesn't strike me as him. I'd suspect even him of altering his behavior when being 1v7.
Also, wherebugsgo felt the need to soft claim blue role in first post so he could claim blue in order to muddy up the thread later. His claim right now means absolutely nothing, because the guy knows that there aren't any jailers in this game. He knows that this is a 2of2 setup as I cleared up in my post just before deadline. This jailer claim means absolutely nothing now he is only doing it to fuck everything up, and he knows this. ANY jailer with a brain (and I consider wherebugsgo to be pretty smart) would have claimed earlier, a claim right now makes absolutely no sense unless there was still some uncertainty about the setup, which there very much isn't.
If a jailer didn't claim before now he would be an idiot. There are no idiots in this game. wherebugsgo therefor knows that there are no jailers. wherebugsgo claims jailer. wherebugsgo is not an idiot. wherebugsgo is a liar. wherebugsgo is a scum. THE LOGIC IS GOD DAMN IRREFUTABLE.
We're going to god damn lynch wherebugsgo today. I'm sure sandroba and Meapak_Ziphh is going to fuck this up somehow but god dammit, please don't.
On a no lynch today, we either lynch wherebugsgo or there's not going to be a lynch. wherebugsgo is going for Meapak_Ziphh and sandroba, he can't get either one of those lynched without my help (horay extended majority) and I'm not helping scum lynch another townie.
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Man, I'm going to look like a fool if wherebugsgo actually is town, but in that case he played like crap. If he is scum he played rather well. What do you think is more likely?
Also, I just wrote a bunch of stuff it would be sweet if any of you guys have time to comment on it. Thank you.
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On November 24 2011 10:59 prplhz wrote:On Meapak_ZiphhRight so before Mr. Wiggles died he made this post about some Palmar, me, and more importantly, Meapak_Ziphh. I am saying "scum does not want scum to die on day, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't push for another scum when he's on the chopping block, because this would mean that scum would die". People are saying "lol haven't u herd about distancing?". I understand the concept but this is not what Mr. Wiggles was doing, he was actually trying to get Meapak_Ziphh. If you don't trust me, then trust Palmar who said it looked like a genuine push in the next post. Now you can say "but this is still all just distancing." but if they had already decided that the lynch was going to be between them, that one of them would have to die, then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh just move his vote over to Mr. Wiggles? If, at this point in the game, they had already decided to distance themselves from each other then why the hell didn't Meapak_Ziphh distance himself from Mr. Wiggles? Meapak_Ziphh's play this game hasn't been totally impressive, but it is very hard to do something impressive in a game this small. He voted hiro protagonist because hiro protagonist was way scummier. I totally agree with him on this actually, the amount of scummyness that hiro protagonist had displayed at this point was way bigger than what Mr. Wiggles had done, but in the light of what you should expect from those players Mr. Wiggles was still the scummier. I don't expect Meapak_Ziphh to know this I don't think he's ever thought very hard about hiro protagonist before. He also very subtly and offhandedly points out very important points throughout the game, but not for the purpose of bringing them up later as a defense or anything. I think this is very townie of him. I had more but ... On wherebugsgoOh shit it's almost deadline. Well he's scum and I have some points but I can't post them lol. I'll post if I'm still alive in 5 mins.
Not only is wherebugsgo the last scum, he's also the role blocker. If there is a role cop and he didn't claim then the guy is a moron, and nobody here is a moron so we can rule that out. This makes this a 2of3 setup. If there is a jailer out there and he didn't claim yet, that's is slightly more understandable, but it is still useless and I think it's very unlikely. This makes this a 2of2 setup. I'd say that there is a 98% chance that town has a doc left and no other blues. wherebugsgo probably knew this way before I even said anything. I think he has a good chance of pulling off a shot tonight though it all comes down to WIFOM. I think he's been enjoying this game so far, keeping me alive knowing that he's scum but not being able to do anything about it like a modern day Cassandra. If I'm not alive tomorrow, which is very likely as nobody would protect me but WIFOM, please please don't make the lynch between you two Meapak_Ziphh and sandroba. Lynch wherebugsgo.
The last scum is the roleblocker, what's your point?
Either I'm the only blue (the jailkeeper) or there's a doctor/cop with me.
In either case, the last scum is between Meapak and Sandro. I really don't know why you still think I'm scum. You don't have a case, and you just keep reiterating that you think I'm scum without actually saying why. You say that scum wouldn't bus, but you don't address the fact that I was one of the first (if not the first? I don't remember) to call out wiggles on his shitty first post. I was fine with hiro/wiggles day 1, I just chose to vote the wrong person that day. I was wrong, and that doesn't mean I am scum. It just means I was wrong.
Then, I believe you were the only one who picked up on the blue claim that I seeded in my posts. Were you not? I recall you saying something about it. I ignored it because I didn't want to draw attention to myself. I knew from the start that I would only be of use if I lived to the end. Unfortunately, I chose Erandorr over Palmar (the choice was a close one) for night 1 and Palmar ended up dying. Oh well.
For the townie between Meapak/sandro:
WBG's Traveling Circus
Awesome Guide to Catching Scum!
I highlighted my own name blue in the first post I made. Literally right at the top.
On November 17 2011 17:32 wherebugsgo wrote:also chaoser isn't a doctor, he's secretly a brutal serial killer! + Show Spoiler +
I said he isn't a doctor, and then in the spoiler said "jk jk jk". This is a breadcrumb. JK=jailkeeper.
On November 17 2011 17:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
At any rate I think this game is locked in. We shouldn't be cocky though, it certainly is still possible we can lose.
Locked in=another jailkeeper breadcrumb.
On November 18 2011 15:26 wherebugsgo wrote:Jailkeeper roleblocks too -_- also Show nested quote +Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked?
A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results.
So we should treat any roleblock claims as liars unless they claim cop as well.
I shot down Meapak's idea of people calling roleblocks almost instantly after he posted it. Why? Because I'm a jailkeeper.
Then note I mentioned Erandorr several times early that day, asking for his thoughts, mentioning how other than him nothing was happening.
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If I were scum how the fuck would I know there is no jailkeeper? Are you stupid?
No blues have flipped yet, from scum perspective it's still equally likely for all setup combinations to be possible.
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also why on earth would a blue claim before today, since the remaining scum is also a roleblocker?
If the blue claims he essentially just becomes a vanilla townie the rest of the way. If he found the scum it's game over but if he found a townie the scum basically will just shoot the townie and then roleblock the blue, gg and only vanilla townies left unless you luck out and there's another protective blue.
Then even if there is another protective blue he has to figure out who to protect. Use your brain prpl and stop spouting nonsense.
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I'm vanilla, so unless anyone else claims blue this confirms wbg. Prpl I'm pretty sure is town. If MZ killed me tonight that ment prpl would probably lynch wbg, winning him the game, so there you go.
##Vote: Meapak_Ziph
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@prpl yeah wbg's game is a bit off, he is not pushing his shit and is not as agressive as he normally is. However, being blue also explains this sort of behaviour (i.e. doesn't want to draw atention and get shot). It's a bit weird since he used his role like ass, he should have been confirming people who have a low chance of getting shot (like hiro/jay).
@WBG Why did you use your role the way you did?
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Erandorr was scummy to Palmar and because of what Wiggles said about him I wanted to see if he was the other scum. I figured he's either blue or red, probably blue, so I debated between going for Erandorr or Palmar n1 and I chose Erandorr. Dumb decision in the end since Erandorr was neither red nor blue and scum shot him n2 and not n1. So n2 I decided okay let me focus on someone who scum won't kill. I chose prpl.
I could've chosen hiro or jaybrundage n1, true, but I was more concerned with saving n1 than confirming. With Erandorr I could do both (his play was really different this game)
I realized my mistake later. And yes, I've not been as aggressive because I've been getting a lot of vibes from players this game (like Erandorr, prpl, Palmar, even hiro) that are telling me my type of play isn't conducive to good town atmosphere. I didn't want to get shot early, or worse lynched because of my play, and I have also been unsure of who is scum all game. My gut hasn't been agreeing with my brain and that makes me pause before posting.
In this regard I've played very similarly to XLV. On day 1 in XLV I saw how Palmar was scummy but I was on the wrong end of the lynch. I continually pushed townies for lynch and then town turned around and said, yeah you're scum and lynched me. The difference here is that in XLV I just went for it anyway and attacked with confidence. In this game I have had very little confidence, and it's shown.
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Also I'm far more suspicious of Meapak than sandro atm. I think the scum in this situation would wait till everyone has responded to come up with a counterclaim that makes sense. I had this idea going in, and I wanted to see who would respond first.
Sandro didn't fake-CC me, sandro has been playing very town-like all game, sandro hammered wiggles. He's been my strongest town read since the end of day 1. Last night Meapak said this:
On November 23 2011 11:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
dammit
Well my guess is prplhz or sandroba will die tonight. WBG it's between you and I. I guess I was an idiot trusting you but at least we've still got one more shot to win.
Which means Meapak had the idea of siding with prpl and killing me already before the day began.
So, I've been wrong all game about Meapak, not the other way around. He's scum.
##vote Meapak_Ziph
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On November 21 2011 17:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
WBG I think you're town.
Prphlz I think you're town.
Hiro I'm on the fence but after last night's kill, and with my new hypothesis I think you're town.
Sandroba I think you're scum and that you bussed Wiggles day one. There's really no other explanation of why you didn't die last night.
Think about it, you and Palmar start the lynch on Wiggles, night one Palmar dies because you and him look like the towniest townies that ever towned. Logic dictates that you die next... why didn't you die? Erandorr didn't look super town, prplhz/WBG/hiro/me don't look super town either (as in we've all had people call us out at some point). This leaves you as the best shot Sandroba... and yet you're still with us. I'll make a proper case tomorrow, I'm just checking in real quick so people know how I'm thinking atm.
Just gonna post this for people to consider.
Although I'm fine dying tbh, we lynch me, WBG blocks sandroba again, lynch sandroba tomorrow=gg town wins.
I'll abstain to make this even easier. Sandroba just give up now, there's no possible way for you to win.
prplhz since I can't vote myself please don't hold us up with a no lynch and vote me, the sooner you guys can get to tomorrow the better.
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MZ, you claim vanilla? If you really thought I was scum, your gambit would lose town the game since rb can block wbg and shoot anyone and win.
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yeah I'm vanilla. And yeah I guess my gambit would fail :/ forgot that rb's block resolves before jailor.
Also it would be pretty retarded if I was mafia to telegraph my hit like that post WBG quoted although that's WIFOM.
Anyway I'm town, my actions speak for themselves, I've been much more active than sandroba, I've actively pushed reads whereas sandroba has been content to sit back and chill after his miraculous day one scum catch.
##Vote: sandroba
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Are you serious? You pushed your reads? You pretty much sat back and agreed with anything I was pushing. I wanted to lynch wiggles day 1 and you pushed hiro.
On November 17 2011 06:23 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
tl;dr: Wiggles has acted scummy but hiro has acted waay scummier.
Day 2 I wanted jay dead and you wanted wbg. You posted a case on him, then dismissed it when jay posted scummy shit. Day 3 you came up with "sandroba, y u alive, you must be scum lololol" and then quickly dismissed it when I pushed hiro. You said you found that my explanation for not being shot was logical, so what exactly is your case on me?
The matter of fact is that you are content with lynching whoever is up for the lynch unless it's wiggles day1, which was the only time you tried to fight the lynch.
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@Meapak_Ziphh
Build a bigger case on sandroba than that two liner.
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I don't have a bigger case than that. The post I quoted from earlier is basically the only thing I have against him. WBG has chosen to interpret the result of his action to mean that I'm scum. Just keep in mind that sandroba can be scum by the results of WBG's actions or even yourself prplhz. Anyway tomorrow is thanksgiving and I doubt I'll be around much and I really don't have anything to defend myself.
Can we shorten the day to 24 hours?
I must say, wp sandroba. Bussing wiggles day 1 was ballsy as hell but it looks like it'll work.
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Okay.
I'm doctor.
What do you people think about that? I'm especially interested in sandroba's thoughts.
I still think that wherebugsgo is scum by the way. I am not lynching a guy I think is townie after two nights of lynching people that other people thought were scum but I thought were townies.
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Okay, if prp was scum he would never claim that on this spot. He would go ahead an lynch meapak and win so prp is town for certain. Please tell us who you protected tonight prp.
Can scum hold off their shot?
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I protected you all nights, although I almost didn't this last night 'cause I thought that townie sandroba wouldn't lead lynches on townies two days in a row. Then I reread (you saw my analysis) and I came to the conclusion that you are town.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 24 2011 22:08 sandroba wrote:
Can scum hold off their shot?
Yes, scum can elect not to shoot.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On November 24 2011 19:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Can we shorten the day to 24 hours?
If all four players agree to shorten any particular cycle I will oblige.
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And since you are blue WBG is no longer confirmed. I really thought there was only a doc, since both jailer and parity could have given us info already. Now that he is no longer confirmed there is one thing that really bothers me about wbg's actions. He jailed errandor night one. How does that really make sense? If he wanted to protect a hit he would have gone for me/palmar. If he wanted to confirm someone that he wa suspicious off he would have gone for hiro/mz/jay. Instead he says he went for errandor. The next night he says he went for prplhz, which is again a dubious choice. As jailer in this spot you go for suspicious people that are unlikely to get shot, since if you see a night kill there is a high likelyhood that you confirm that person as town (unless you get rb'ed).
Let me tell you why this is extremelly convinient. He couldn't claim he went for me or meapak at any point besides today because that would limit his options. Also he couldn't have said he jailed jay or hiro at any point, since he would have to confirm these people on previous lynches and not have voted for them. In fact the only possible combination of players wbg could possibly say he jailed are exactly errandor + someone he thought was the least likely to get lynched, in this case prplhz. Couple that with the discussion that TL towns are too trusting and they always take claims at face value, which wbg argued against, you have here many coincidences going on. It seems like he has been setting up this claim for a long time to prove his point.
The fact that meapak claimed vanilla, when I was expecting him to counterclaim wbg if he was scum, also bothers me.
The likelyhood of there being 2 blues is 1/2 and the likelyhood of both being alive at this point is extremelly slim. The likelyhood of wbg, an inteligent player, using his role like ass is close to null.
You did a good job fooling me this game, but in the end you got cocky and wanted to prove your point.
##unvote
##vote: wherebugsgo
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On November 24 2011 22:36 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 19:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Can we shorten the day to 24 hours?
If all four players agree to shorten any particular cycle I will oblige.
I agree.
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So sandro you're saying I fake breadcrumbed jailor on day 1, night 1, AND day 2, then kept dropping hints that I thought both Erandorr and prpl were confirmed town because I wanted to fool you?
Wtf? If I was scum why wouldn't I just have shot prpl last night? That would be 100 times easier than trying to pull a fake claim of jailor when someone CCs me. Prpl claiming doctor does not make me confirmed, true, but I don't become scum because of it. Use your brain, I'm not that good at scum.
I chose badly n1. I attest to that. I wasn't thinking very much about it until the next night, really. I figured I'd try to confirm Erandorr instead of use my role strictly offensively or defensively because I thought back to last mini where GM suggested using the jailor role offensively. I thought it was a dumb idea both times but I didn't think about how we'd already killed one scum. I also doubted scum would kill Erandorr (I was wrong) so he'd be a good check for confirmed town. I used similar logic for prpl. I should've gone for jay/hiro, but I didn't. I'm dumb.
Something about prpl was bothering me so I went for him n2. Turns out he's blue, I was right, something about his play was different because of that. Why do you think I kept brushing him off on day 2? If I were scum I would've attacked him. That's what I do when people suspect me as scum. It's because I'm generally confident I can out argue them.
Sandro, you're one of those players I know I can't fool nor outargue. So the fact that you're saying I'm scum based on prpl claiming doctor is surprising. It's shocking. It's completely illogical, since prpl claiming doctor doesn't actually do anything. Yeah, it makes me not 100% confirmed. But as scum why the hell would I take such a massive risk? If I were scum prpl could have been cop or jailor too, and visited me last night. One of you could have been jailor/cop and visited me last night. If I were scum they BOTH could have existed. As scum breadcrumbing jailkeeper 3 days in advance just to claim is ludicrous.
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On November 24 2011 11:32 prplhz wrote:
Man, I'm going to look like a fool if wherebugsgo actually is town, but in that case he played like crap. If he is scum he played rather well. What do you think is more likely?
Also, I just wrote a bunch of stuff it would be sweet if any of you guys have time to comment on it. Thank you.
-_-
Didn't notice this before but yeah, if you think I've played bad then yeah lol I've played reallyy bad.
I'm sorry :/ even now I'm confused because sandro's being dumb too and Meapak has disappeared. It's thanksgiving though, I guess we need to wait.
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Yeah, the fact that you would fake claim at this spot does surprise me, but considering the discussion we had on the previous game I think you are trying to prove a point and you planned to do so since early on. Your night actions make absolutely no sense. From your perspective it was damn near obvious that either me or palmar would get shot night 1. Errandor was not nearly a high priority person to protect. From your perspective the obvious choice would be for me/palmar defensively or hiro/jay/mz offensivelly. Instead you go for errandor then prplhz. Other than that it was the most terrible use of jailer role in that spot with one scum left. I said day 2 how it would be the optimal way of using it, but I'm sure you would have thought of it on your own day 1. You could have gone for people you deemed suspicious and confirm one of them with very high odds and save town from mislynching one of them. Instead you chose to completely waste your role. I simply can't believe you can play so bad having a role that I deemed auto win for town after day1 scum lynch. If you are somehow town and used your role this poorly accept the fact that you lost town this game. However I'm pretty sure you would not play so poorly having such a powerful role with 1 scum down.
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@sandroba
How do you feel about nobody dying last night?
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On November 25 2011 04:55 sandroba wrote:
Yeah, the fact that you would fake claim at this spot does surprise me, but considering the discussion we had on the previous game I think you are trying to prove a point and you planned to do so since early on. Your night actions make absolutely no sense. From your perspective it was damn near obvious that either me or palmar would get shot night 1. Errandor was not nearly a high priority person to protect. From your perspective the obvious choice would be for me/palmar defensively or hiro/jay/mz offensivelly. Instead you go for errandor then prplhz. Other than that it was the most terrible use of jailer role in that spot with one scum left. I said day 2 how it would be the optimal way of using it, but I'm sure you would have thought of it on your own day 1. You could have gone for people you deemed suspicious and confirm one of them with very high odds and save town from mislynching one of them. Instead you chose to completely waste your role. I simply can't believe you can play so bad having a role that I deemed auto win for town after day1 scum lynch. If you are somehow town and used your role this poorly accept the fact that you lost town this game. However I'm pretty sure you would not play so poorly having such a powerful role with 1 scum down.
So again, you're ignoring everything because you think I'm trying to prove a point?
This is terrible argumentation and you know it. I wasn't sure of anything d1, I told you that already. I also said, again, I thought about going for Palmar or Erandorr. It was a very close choice but for whatever stupid reason I thought I would magically block a scum hit if I went for Erandorr. When Palmar flipped I realized I was a moron. I did the dumb thing again and didn't go for hiro the next night, I went for prpl. It was based on the same reason I went for Erandorr (he's been playing differently). That was pretty dumb too, in hindsight, since now we know he's the doctor.
Your argument comes down to this:
1. I fake claimed jailkeeper at the start of day 4 after breadcrumbing my role and both of my checks multiple times every day cycle before.
2. I fake claimed jailkeeper as scum from a perspective where at least one person would CC me for sure. How does this make sense?
3. I used my role dumbly, and even for me that's dumb so I'm scum (lol)
4. prpl claiming doctor makes me scum.
Sandro stop being dumb. If you lynch me and town loses, it won't be entirely my fault this time (like it was in XLV). The burden will also be on you, since you're ignoring a mountain of evidence to call me scum just on the basis that I am dumb. Yeah, I'm dumb. I've been dumb. That doesn't make me scum in the least, it just makes me dumb.
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It's not even for you. I consider you a solid player and it would completely mesmerize me if you did indeed chose those as your night actions. You are not dumb. You are a proud, smart individual and the fact that you are saying you are dumb suprises me. Didn't you realize it was dumb day2? Even after I posted, didn't you realize you had the power to confirm one of the players most of the town was suspicious every night? Why the hell even this night would you jail me instead of meapak, since he was your only suspicion as scum at that point? Roleblocking me prevents the hit only if he hit me, roleblocking him would prevent him to hit period.
What wouldn't surprise me at all is you planning to pull this stunt to show how towns are wrong on trusting claims. Yes it's poor play if you are scum, but it reflects your proud personality.
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Actually I picked you because I was not sure which one of you was scum.
I intended on posting before the daypost (but I was in a LoL match, hahaha) that if I died you and prpl were confirmed town and Meapak was scum. I knew that if I lived, it didn't matter which one of you I picked to block, the result would be the same. Either I die and you're confirmed town (or if I chose Meapak he's confirmed town) except in the case of roleblock, or I live and one of you two is scum.
Do you not see that? I figured scum would not shoot prpl because they can use prpl to mislynch me. He's been going after me for a while and I haven't been able to say "yo prpl I know you're town cause I'm jailor stop tunneling me" because doing so would reveal my role and I would die. Instead I kept telling him to stop being dumb and wasting time. I wouldn't do that if I was scum, I'd beat the shit out of him because I'm 90% sure I'd win over prpl in an argument.
Lastly, you're calling this a stunt and saying I'm trying to prove something?!?! this makes me scum? rofl.
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I also realized that if scum correctly knew I was blue then they could roleblock me, which made things even muddier for me than they already were.
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Wether it was possible you'd be rb'ed or not has no bearing on your decision, since it wouldn't matter by then. So you are saying you thought I was more likely to be scum than MZ and that's why you went for me?
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after rereading last night, yes.
Since Meapak claimed vanilla after you I'm unsure again because I fully expected one of you to CC me. I suppose from either of your perspectives if one of you is scum then it would be a risk to claim after I did, since it was possible I was the only one, or that prpl could be blue too. In that case it makes sense you both would just claim vanilla and attack the other one.
Last night I was leaning more toward Meapak being town because I found it weird that you were the last vote on Wiggles, you said very little all day 1 and day 2, and you even pointed out your own lack of activity. I also had agreed with most of what Meapak had done, since obviously I shared most of his views.
On daybreak when you claimed vanilla I thought Meapak was more likely to be scum because optimally for scum in that situation would be to wait till everyone posts and then counterclaim any blue who claims. Meapak didn't CC though, he just claimed vanilla. Now he's gone.
So there's my confusion. I'm back to square one, either of you could be scum.
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If you're telling the truth WBG than this game really just comes down to my word against Sandroba's. There's really not much for me to say tbh. I'm vt, I've played a lot more actively than sandroba, While my reads have been wrong so far I haven't been afraid of being wrong. Sandroba's posting has been much more reticent then mine, he's shied away from pushing people and taking stands. I understand that my play has been anything but outstanding but I feel that if you reread the thread I'm a lot more transparent and open than sandroba. Not only that but sandroba has been invisible since the wiggles lynch.
I have company coming for thanksgiving in 30 minutes so I've asked to have decon replace me since I don't feel it's fair to be afk during the final part of the game. He's agreed so Rad just has to make it official.
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actually it all comes down to prpl.
prpl is convinced I'm scum so it really doesn't matter.
Even if we no lynch neither of you would ever shoot me, we'd be back in this same situation tomorrow with prpl dead. You RB me, shoot prpl, back to square one.
I'm going to think this over for a bit. I am literally torn 50/50 between Meapak and sandro right now. I'll hopefully be done rereading again in about 10-20 minutes (I'm on page 22).
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I'm replacing Meapak, reading over the thread now.
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On November 22 2011 17:54 sandroba wrote:
The thing is prpl, wbg is my least likely suspect of being scum after you, based on behavior alone. I already pointed out why I don't think he is scum. I'd rather take my chances with hiro today. Everyone seems very concerned about who to lynch today and people are strugling to make the right choice. Everyone besides hiro. That's since day 1, he only pops in right before the lynch and votes. He is prob the last scum, since everybody else has more things pointing to them being town.
##Vote: Hiro Protagonist
okay this post on page 23 did it for me.
Sandro goes from me being the least likely suspect for being scum after prpl, to me being scum today.
I agree with what Meapak has said about sandro; they are all true and those are things I've thought as well. I just haven't had the confidence to believe in them this game. In addition, Meapak hasn't done anything overtly scummy beyond vote hiro day 1, and I'm guilty of that myself. We both messed up day 1 and I've otherwise thought Meapak has played very town-like. I don't think his play has been sub-par at all.
Sandro's play has just been kinda off. He has had bad reads all after day 1. He's using really bad logic today to try to lynch me, disbelieving my claim JUST because prpl claimed doctor and on the assumption that I'm trying to prove something (rofl). If you need to use something personal like that from last game then why make the argument at all? Prpl claiming doctor doesn't make me scum, and saying that I'm trying to prove something doesn't make me scum either.
He also delayed till the last possible moment on day 1 to hammer wiggles. He waited until it was obvious wiggles would die, since he probably knew Meapak and I would not let a no-lynch happen on day 1. So he hammered wiggles to give himself a lot of town cred. As Meapak said, after that he pretty much disappeared for quite a while.
prpl, this lynch comes down to you. I know you think I'm scum, but you're wrong. You need to seriously rethink everything right now, since most of what you have said is wrong. You said that as scum I would know that the jailor doesn't exist, that's false. You said that a blue would've claimed before now, that's also false. You've said that I'm scum because I was on the wrong side of the lynch day 1, that's also false, by definition, since at least one of Meapak/me cannot be scum. If you think I'm scum for that reason then I really question why you don't have a suspicion of Meapak.
Look at the evidence. If you actually believe I'm scum fake claiming jailkeeper after breadcrumbing for 3 days straight then I really don't know what to tell you.
##unvote Meapak Ziphh
##vote sandroba
I'd be completely fine with shortening the day to 24 hours, btw. I think I'm the only American left since decon is replacing Meapak, and I have no thanksgiving plans.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Deconduo is replacing Meapak_Ziphh
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It's not prpl being doctor that makes you scum, it's who you claim to have chosen to jail. The fact is that before I thought that those night actions were suspicious, but dismissed the thought because iI did find it very unlikely scum would be the first one to claim today. But then I thought about the discussion we had in the previous game, and how a claim at this point would be impossible to prove fake, since you can always say that the person counter claiming you is lying. The fact that you breadcrumb doesn't change shit, because you could always opt not to point it out. It was an option that you had as scum, push comes to shove. Yes, I wasn't suspicious of you all game long, but your night actions make absolutely no sense, no matter how you put it. 2 blues being present and alive at this point is extremelly unlikely. You felt the need to breadcrumb your role several times, without the fear of being found out and shot by scum. Surprisingly scum never payed any attention to your breadcrumbs, despite how obvious some of them were. Jailkeeper could fuck scum over so many different ways with only one player alive, yet you are alive and here and failed to produce any relevant information all game.
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You thought the night actions made me suspicious before prpl claimed, but you didn't point that out until prpl claimed doctor. You even went out of your way to show that prpl claiming doctor doesn't confirm me.
That's just shedding doubt, and that shows you're acting from a scum agenda. If what you say is true, that it wasn't prpl's claim that made me scum, why did you use it in your argument for me being scum?
I've gone over multiple times that I made a mistake in my n1 action. I stand by my n2 action because there's no way I could've confirmed prpl otherwise. He caught me on the blue slip and I was afraid that if he was scum he'd shoot me. So I jailed him and turned out he was town.
Now you're arguing that scum paid no attention to my breadcrumbs. Breadcrumbs are only useful in the case someone dies. It's hard to find a breadcrumb unless you know what to look for, that's by definition how breadcrumbs work. If I'd died n2 or n3 the townies would've gone back to look for breadcrumbs. I breadcrumbed that I had checked Erandorr and prpl, by the way I called them townies despite having no real reason to think so. I also on one occasion baited (I think it was Meapak, specifically) by seeing what people thought of prpl.
If I were scum don't you think I would just take the easy route of saying "I've targetted sandro every night"? In that case all I would have to do today as scum is say prpl is dumb town, sandro is town woot let's lynch meapak.
Instead, you have this situation which can only be true if I am town. I breadcrumbed not only my role, but my checks. Your argument is that I faked them in anticipation of doing a fake claim just to do a fake claim 3 days in advance because I have a notion that TL towns will believe claims blindly. That's not true.
You even go so far as to use the end game result of last game to try and prove this. The point of last game was NOT that TL towns believe claims. The point of last game was that you lynch confirmed liars. GM was a confirmed liar, the town didn't actually believe his claim. Town knew he wasn't a medic because the medic flipped.
The fact that you're trying to say now that the post-game discussion somehow applies here is quite funny and very revealing of your alignment.
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also I don't know if I mentioned it but a big reason I targetted Erandorr was because I was intrigued by what Palmar was saying in the thread about Erandorr being scummy. In addition, IIRC Wiggles said some things about him as well.
He had an interesting quote of my first post in which he just attacked everything despite agreeing with over half of it. I found that weird, like he was just simply trying to undermine my credibility. Since I leaned town on Palmar I wanted to see if he was right about Erandorr being scum. That ultimately is why I switched to Erandorr over trying to protect Palmar.
When the hit went through I immediately thought that jay/hiro had to be scum. Then prpl said something that tipped me off, so I figured I'd check him the next night. He came back town too so I figured it had to be hiro.
I was wrong every single time. Oh well.
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Right so, here is what I have so far. I think prpl is town from his votes on day 1, and also his general play. WBG has pretty much cleared him on top of this as well. This leaves Sandro and WBG. Unfortunately both have done pretty scummy things throughout the game, and up until reading this day, I thought it was WBG. The jailkeeper claim is pretty solid though, and it was breadcrumbed.
I went over Sandro's posts again, and this stuck out to me:
On November 16 2011 20:18 sandroba wrote:
I agree with what you said about wiggles and there is always the statistical benefit of lynching wiggles, even when there is no evidence on him =P
But seriously, his posts screams to me "look at me guyz, I'm being helpful and trying to find scum!". He seems to be trying to blend in too hard. I'd rather see some more from him before pushing for his lynch though, hopefully he will comply.
prplhz seems town to me this game, so maybe that means he is mafia? (j/k prpl =P)
errandor is interesting. His play this game is way different than any game I've played with him before, and one thing that's clear for sure is that he is trying his best to win this one. I'm leaning town, mainly because he is arguing against the hiro lynch which seems reasonable to me at this point.
Onto my weak scum suspect, Meapak: what do you think about this guy?
He weak FOSes Wiggles, but doesn't vote him or do anything else. No pressure really on Wiggles at this point.
On November 17 2011 09:13 sandroba wrote:
Fuck man, there is not much argument against lynching wiggles. No one is really pushing a second candidate (MZ is pushing hiro, but not too strongly, I would expect him to put a lot more effort into it if he was mafia with wiggles).
Jaybrundage is looking real scummy to me and voting wiggles too. =/
Then when the tide starts turning he tries to soft defend Wiggles. Makes a half-hearted attempt to push Jay. There are 4 votes on Wiggles at this point, meaning he's leading the lynch. Then Palmar posts this
On November 17 2011 09:42 Palmar wrote:
yeah sure.
In a 2 scum game I wouldn't expect scum to ever come to the defense of their partner, especially when their partner gets called out by both myself and sandroba, unless there is very obvious evidence the accused is town, it'd be damn near suicide to try to defend. Better let the accused fend for himself.
Like I know I'd bus my partner so hard if he came under suspicion day 1.
Immediately after Sandro sees the futility in defending him and goes:
On November 17 2011 09:57 sandroba wrote:
...
Alright, lets roll with this.
##Vote: Mr.Wiggles
On top of this, the next day Sandro has the audacity to claim he was the sole person who got wiggles lynched:
On November 19 2011 13:52 sandroba wrote:
@jaybrundage Man, do you realise I basically was the main force changing the lynch form hiro onto Wiggles? No one was voting for wiggles before I said I thought hiro was not scum and explained how wiggles "It was a trap for scum!" bullshit made no sense and seemed artificial. I shifted the discussion with palmer towards wiggles and then put in the last vote on him, even though I had cold feet since no one seemed to be defending him.
All this considered there is absolutely no way I'm scum this game and no matter how new you are you should realise this. Also you say I'm scum in all your posts and votes wbg? Only because someone else is voting for him? I swear man, if you are not scum this game mafia is not your thing at all =/
Apart from the fact that Wiggles was already leading the vote when Sandro switched, Sandro posted NO CASE against wiggles whatsoever, just a weak FOS in a post where he also FOSed Jay, and then later on Meapak.
Votes when Sandro should have voted for Wiggles:
On November 16 2011 22:25 Radfield wrote:Vote Count Wherebugsgo (4)Erandorr Palmer jaybrundage hiro protagonist hiro protagonist (3)prplhz Meapak_Ziphh Wherebugsgo Mr Wiggles and sandroba have not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in 12 and a half hours
Votes when Sandro actually voted:
On November 17 2011 09:46 chaoser wrote:Vote Count Wiggles (4)Erandorr Palmer prplhz hiro protagonist wherebugsgo (1)jaybrundage hiro protagonist (2)Meapak_Ziphh Wherebugsgo Meapak_Ziphh (1)Mr Wiggles sandroba has not voted
Since there are 9 people, 5 votes are needed to reach majority
Day ends in about 1 hour
Also notice that Sandro and Wiggles were the 2 people who waited to vote on day 1.
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No, when prpl didn't cc you on the spot I assumed he was vanilla. You couldn't have said you jailed me every night because that would be an even more absurd use of a role, downright impossible to believe. You are saying that you have absolutely no reads this game so far, since you vote both hiro and jay, had no reason to believe errandor was town and had to confirm prpl which by reading the thread should be confirmed by default.
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Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did.
On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro.
The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me.
Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid?
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On November 25 2011 07:28 sandroba wrote:
No, when prpl didn't cc you on the spot I assumed he was vanilla. You couldn't have said you jailed me every night because that would be an even more absurd use of a role, downright impossible to believe. You are saying that you have absolutely no reads this game so far, since you vote both hiro and jay, had no reason to believe errandor was town and had to confirm prpl which by reading the thread should be confirmed by default.
Occam's Razor. Why would saying jailing you every night as scum be absurd? You could just say they were trying to protect you because you're the best town player here!
Hell, that's what the doctor does, right? So if you simply use the jailor like a doctor that is actually a very good use of the role. The only way it fails and you die is if scum correctly RBs the jailkeeper.
I gave you why I targetted Erandorr. It made sense at the time. I should've chosen hiro or jay, but hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight I'm dumb.
I also gave you why I targetted prpl. No one is "obv town." He was attacking me on day 2 for being scummy, and he caught my blue slip. A player is pushing a mislynch with shitty logic and you say it's obvious he was town? Then once it was openly clear that jay was doing very scummy stuff he jumped on the jay bandwagon. He also kept denying that Palmar could have been right that scum would bus on day 1.
All of those reasons led me to jailing prpl on n2, and I stand by all of those reasons. Call me dumb all you want if you think my night 1 action was dumb, since in hindsight it was, but my n2 action definitely was not and you attacking me for that is very revealing of your alignment.
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Exactly how caught up were you in this game? You seem to reach a conclusion pretty damn fast. Have you read this thread carefully?
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For me the only thing going in prpl's favor on day 2 was that he voted #3 on wiggles on day 1. Otherwise his play has been different from other games in which he was town, and on day 2 he was shedding doubt and attacking me. I was averse to believing him to be sure town just on the day 1 vote because he did that really risky and unexpected thing of claiming DF in PYP:I, so I didn't put it past him to do something very unexpected.
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Yes man, I'm willing to admit that open jailkeeper claim is really throwing me off as I think it would be unlikely for scum to do that. But those jaillings man, those jaillings... so convinient and not well thought out =/ It's driving me insane. You do have a point about the discussion being about fake claiming as town, and ace argued that town takes claim at face value in res mafia.
I'm going to read the thread one more time =/
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On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted.
On November 25 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote:Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid?
Sandro you're a liar. I was the first one to point it out, not you.
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On November 25 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote:Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did. Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid?
Nope.
On November 25 2011 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 16 2011 03:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Wow, this is going really slow. Here's something to get people talking:
If you could pick one player (Not yourself) to make mayor (decides day 1 lynch + a couple night's worth of protection), who would it be and why?
I would personally pick MZ. He's level headed, and a decent scum-hunter, so I don't think he'd do anything crazy with a day 1 lynch, and the protection would come in handy with letting him live until later when he could scum-hunt more effectively.
Back to you guys. Mr. Wiggles, I don't believe I've ever seen you play town. Nonetheless, your first post is moronic. You're obviously not new, and I assume you have a functioning cerebral cortex. Thus, I think you should stop distracting town with a brainless question and an equally brainless answer to your own question. Next time, ask people what their favorite color is, because I'm sure that'll be more relevant to finding scum than what you posted. Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote:Are you insane decon? I pointed out why wiggles was suspicious before anyone else did. On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
People that don't seem genuine to me as of now are Mr.Wiggles (his "atempt" at catching scum was the most optimistic plan ever known to man) and jaydude (seemed intusiastic about mafia, but has posted very little, only one liners without any thought behind and after people's reaction to his posts has gone missing -> good match for inexperienced scum, but a poor choice for a lynch today since I know nothing about his play).
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. The I moved the discussion to wiggles and palmar is the one who agrees with me. Have you read my posts and do you think wbg's night actions are solid? Sandro you're a liar. I was the first one to point it out, not you.
Also nope.
It was Meapak/me:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I guess this will be one of Palmar's off games then. Anyway, I'd feel good about lynching Wiggles right now. While it's true that the game has been slow there's still stuff to talk about. Wiggles decided to ignore the whole Palmar thing and told everyone to sit back and talk about completely irelevant things for no appparent purpose. Also I'd feel grand lynching hiro. Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:11 hiro protagonist wrote:I know you where trolling Im with you Erandorr, I would like to start this game off on the right foot. So lets lay down some frame work: Towns goal for day 1 should be to create a good town atmosphere. What is good town atmosphere you ask? Well there is the obvious stuff like dont lurk, post with content etc. But there is less obvious stuff like pointless arguing, spam, and aggressive tunneling that Have haunted TL towns in the past. Those things only further scum objectives. I will be taking a hard stance on anyone that derails positive discussion this game. Lets start off on the right foot! This post is so unbelievable worthless that my mind has a hard time comprehending it. This is like a textbook example of contributing without contributing and fluff posting. The part in red had me laughing it was so hypocritical.
Look at the timestamps:
On November 16 2011 04:59 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On November 16 2011 09:02 wherebugsgo wrote:
On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
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Several people said what he said was stupid, before I did, but I was the first to say it was suspicious. I ask palmar to tell me about wiggles, because I thought wiggles was scum and that would allow me to get a good read on palmar. I just found some somewhere day2 that you say "I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me.". I saw that you were suspicious of both errandor day 1 and prpl day 2, since they were both calling you out. From your perspective these checks do make a little more sense.
If you did that as scum props to you, I now think you are town.
I also read meapak case on you and he dismisses it as soon as there is resistance and there is someone easier to get lynched.
I won't be switch my vote anymore, so either prpl decides to lynch mz or you lynch me as I won't vote wbg anymore. My conspiracy theory entratained me for a while, but if wbg put that much effort building a solid jailer claim and had the balls to claim it on lylo like that, then he deserves to win.
##Unvote
##Vote: Meapak_Ziph
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Yes, meapak said that, then proceeded to push for hiro. I said I thought hiro was town and shifted the focus to wiggles. See the difference?
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my head is going to explode
PRPL WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU
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Actually why are we lynching today? We no lynch so prpl gets eliminated as a scum candidate. While I'm 95% sure he's town, its safer if its 100%.
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if we no lynch scum can choose to no-hit and we're back to square one rofl.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'd be completely fine with shortening the day to 24 hours, btw. I think I'm the only American left since decon is replacing Meapak, and I have no thanksgiving plans.
Since Decon is just subbing in, I'd rather leave the Day length at 48 hours today. Deadline will be tomorrow night at 02:00 GMT (+00:00)
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How is that going to help. Mafia can hold off their shot forever if they want.
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On November 25 2011 08:21 sandroba wrote:
How is that going to help. Mafia can hold off their shot forever if they want.
And we can hold off the lynch forever, whats your point? If the remaining mafia isn't a dick he'll shoot.
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decon imagine we're in a day 5 situation after no-lynching day 4, and scum has shot prpl, he has flipped doctor.
What is different about that situation than this one? The fact that prpl can't vote and you only need 2 for majority?
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On November 25 2011 08:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
decon imagine we're in a day 5 situation after no-lynching day 4, and scum has shot prpl, he has flipped doctor.
What is different about that situation than this one? The fact that prpl can't vote and you only need 2 for majority?
It clears prpl 100%. We're going to look pretty dumb if he's the last mafia. Also as far as I can tell prpl has refused to vote for anyone but you, so we don't have much of a choice.
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He can't be scum unless I was RBed on n2.
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On November 25 2011 08:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
He can't be scum unless I was RBed on n2.
And there's a 20% chance that happened. Are you really suggesting we shouldn't maximize our win chance?
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well like I said before, what's stopping scum from holding their hit?
We can no lynch for all I care. It's not going to do anything except delay.
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This is why you shouldn't let town no-lynch as well as mafia no-kill
#Vote Sandroba
WBG's claim looks legit enough. He claimed at the start of the day and has breadcrumbed it. Also think about this:
If he's lying, he tried to kill Sandroba last night and prpl saved. He then knows that either:
-There's a jailer that jailed him
-There's a jailed that jailed sandro
-There's a doc that saved sandro
By far the safest blue role to claim at this point is cop. There's a 2/3 chance there will be a jailer CC. Again, given how early in the day the claim came, I really don;t think he would risk it as mafia.
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wherebugsgo also knows this:
I am not the jailer, or I would have jailed him ages ago and exposed him. If not, then he could have role blocked jailer-me and then hit someone and I'd most likely take my suspicion off him. I never did that.
If any of sandroba/deconduo is role blocker, they would have to counter claim him, but that okay because he's already casting a lot of suspicion on them and neither of them breadcrumbed anything.
A cop claim would be lunacy. Then you might as well just not claim. I only claimed because sandroba took wherebugsgo's claim for face value because there were no other blues, otherwise I would not have claimed because: when you claim on last day it all comes down to how believable your claim is along with how much people think you're town. If people don't think you're town, then all it does is spread confusion.
If wherebugsgo hit sandroba last night he would have to role claim jailer. If the hit was saved by a doc then he wouldn't know it, but he could have been jailed. Not by me but by one of you and sandroba. In a situation where there is no hit, the first guy who claims jailer will always have the upper hand over the guy who counter claims I'd think. Otherwise either you or sandroba would claim jailer and throw more suspicion on to wherebugsgo, while he would just sit there and counter claim later with a ton or breadcrumbs leading to the question "why didn't you claim straight after the no hit?".
@wherebugsgo
You said you breadcrumbed your jails, where exactly did you do that? Some quotes or something, I couldn't find it in the big breadcrumb post. Not that I don't believe you 'cause scum wherebugsgo wouldn't claim to have done such a thing and then not have done it and neither would town wherebugsgo.
@deconduo
How do you feel about how hard sandroba shut down hiro protagonist as lynch candidate for day1? He really stuck his neck out there, there wasn't too much analysis it was just "I looks more like he just accidentally". That was really ballsy, and that was at a point where attention was slowly shifting towards Mr. Wiggles. Why the hell would a scum sandroba do this? He could have pushed hiro protagonist harder and he has a lot of town sway, that could very likely have ended in a hiro protagonist lynch on day1, and a hiro protagonist lynch that no one could blame anybody for because the dude didn't really bring his a-game.
Your point that sandroba voted Mr. Wiggles because wherebugsgo or Meapak_Ziphh would have voted hiro protagonist just to avoid a null lynch is stupid. It is insane. They both voted hiro protagonist, so if he had achieved majority (Meapak_Ziphh, wherebugsgo, jaybrundage, sandroba, Mr. Wiggles), and they all thought that hiro protagonist was more scummy, and then they suddenly changed to Mr. Wiggles? That would make no sense, a townie would never do that, and a scum would never change his vote to push his buddy into the gallows in place of a very scummy townie.
ALSO I NEVER AGREED TO THE SHORTENING OF ANYTHING INCLUDING DAYS
PLEASE
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If sandroba is scum I don't see him flip flopping so much here, he would just say that wherebugsgo is town and his claim is breadcrumbed and there is no counter claim and then lynch deconduo. It is unfortunate that Meapak_Ziphh chose to substitute out because I know I shouldn't put anything in it, but he looked like he didn't have time to come up with a counter claim and so deconduo was brought in.
wherebugsgo also never shies away from pointing out how his scum play this game does not fit his meta. It's like pulling yourself up by your hair "I am not scum because I am not acting like I would act when I am scum!".
sandroba wants to let scum wherebugsgo win because he breacrumbed a role claim and because sandroba lead the town into two stupid mislynches. Derp.
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Okay I'm exhausted, wherebugsgo, you pick a lynch. I'll be back some time before deadline to vote for it. sandroba and deconduo, you two just continue voting for each other. gg guys.
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On November 24 2011 11:35 wherebugsgo wrote:For the townie between Meapak/sandro: I highlighted my own name blue in the first post I made. Literally right at the top. I said he isn't a doctor, and then in the spoiler said "jk jk jk". This is a breadcrumb. JK=jailkeeper. Show nested quote +On November 17 2011 17:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
At any rate I think this game is locked in. We shouldn't be cocky though, it certainly is still possible we can lose. Locked in=another jailkeeper breadcrumb. Show nested quote +On November 18 2011 15:26 wherebugsgo wrote:Jailkeeper roleblocks too -_- also Q: Do people get notified if they are roleblocked?
A: No one gets notified, If the cop gets roleblocked his investigations will return no results.
So we should treat any roleblock claims as liars unless they claim cop as well. I shot down Meapak's idea of people calling roleblocks almost instantly after he posted it. Why? Because I'm a jailkeeper. Then note I mentioned Erandorr several times early that day, asking for his thoughts, mentioning how other than him nothing was happening.
Prpl, my breadcrumbs are in the quote above. They're nested quotes.
My breadcrumb that I had visited Erandorr:
On November 19 2011 08:01 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lastly, if I was trying to give Wiggles credit and then trying to draw Erandorr into the lynch conversation, why is it that I have not pushed Erandorr to be lynched? I don't find Erandorr suspicious, despite the fact that he agreed with my argument on hiro but attacked it on the grounds that he didn't like me.
Point being, when do I leave someone alone when I am town for using bad logic to attack me? I never do that, regardless of me being town or scum. Think about it, I get accused of OMGUS all the time, it's because when people use bad logic to attack me and I'm town I think they could be scum. In this case I didn't back off him just because (even though I didn't explicitly state the reasons). This was a hint that I knew more than you guys; I had visited him.
I've caught several scum that way in the past, it's not always reliable, but Erandorr was playing really differently.
On November 20 2011 08:07 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 01:27 prplhz wrote:@Erandorr At the danger of being ever more of an idiot I don't think that hiro protagonist is scum. I skimmed some of his earlier games and he always looks like this. This post from PYP:I looks the same as his posts here, he never says anybody is scum. He mostly just focuses on who is town. Now, I know that there was a mayoral election on day1 in PYP:I but people still had to scum hunt. Also his logic was way off as illustrated in posts like this. I think his posts in that game looks a lot like his posts in this game, he is trying, in his own peculiar way, to create what he think is is a good townie atmosphere. The most townie tell for hiro protagonist in my opinion is that he voted for Mr. Wiggles as fourth. I don't think the lynch was certain at that point and I don't think that he bussed Mr. Wiggles. While sandroba had said that he liked the Mr. Wiggles lynch he had not voted yet and I don't think that anybody would bus their scum buddy on day1. I don't think scum would want any of them to die on day1 since that would give town 3 lynches to find the last scum, that's really uphill. I would like to lynch wherebugsgo. The simplest explanation is that scum don't want to die day1, don't draw attention to each other, and that overly newbie play is probably because someone is ... very new at this game. This leaves wherebugsgo. Also, I don't hate wherebugsgo's play, I think he's pretty good at mafia both as scum and as town, but whatever. I don't like the no lynch idea. I don't see what you are seeing in those posts, but hiro's posts in this game do not look like that. Also he's not focusing on finding townies in this game, and I don't even think the two games are comparable. Lastly, if the bolded were the case then I am not scum. I wanted Wiggles to be lynched, but I thought hiro was a better choice. If I were scum, I would've acted upon the fact that there were four votes left and hammered Wiggles. I'm very decisive as scum and not afraid of starting arguments, but I am afraid of things that make me look bad long term. Not hammering wiggles, I admit, made me look really bad. I also straddled the fence because I was unsure between hiro and wiggles, though my gut kept saying hiro was the better lynch. Ofc, at this point we don't know if hiro is scum or not, so I could very well still be right. I reasoned after the flip that it was unlikely though, since hiro voted fourth on Wiggles. I was the one who pointed this out to Meapak, who said the focus should be on me+hiro. If I were scum why would I point that out to Meapak, and basically give him a free pass to attack me? If I were scum I would have no interest in giving information to town, that would work against my win condition. I could have simply let Meapak chase after hiro because he missed the fact that hiro was the fourth vote on Wiggles. He is focusing on finding townies. Maybe this is because he doesn't trust his own scum hunting abilities and instead he tries to find townies that he can trust. I think he has more confidence as scum, since he knows he's wrong and that he can't possibly he right it's easier to be more assertive. You even complained about it yourself that his list of reads didn't contain a single scum read. Yes, it made you look bad that you didn't hammer Mr. Wiggles. You can say that you wanted him lynched as much as you want. You pointed out something that 6 townies would have figured out eventually (I knew it, I would have stated it if you hadn't). These are easy points for scum to get town credit, you point out something that's important but that's going to be figured out in a short while anyway. There is nothing to suggest that hiro is looking for townies any more than he is looking for scum. I don't know how you can come to this conclusion when hiro hasn't even said anything about it himself. Second, when the hell have you seen hiro play scum? How would you know how he would play scum, or what kind of confidence he would have as either alignment? And I don't believe I complained that it contained no scum reads. He called meapak scum, but he didn't call me scum. That's what I pointed out. I pointed out the fact that he voted me despite never calling me scum. He said he thought meapak was red, so my concern was the disconnect between his thoughts and his vote. Lastly, I wouldn't point out something like that as scum about my own scumbuddy before anyone else noticed it. That's dumb, since it wouldn't further my win condition. If I were scum with Wiggles I would have either bussed him when it was apparent he was going to die or I would have destroyed the thread in my attempt to cover it up and distract you guys. I'm not afraid of causing chaos when I'm mafia, because I know I can get away with it if I have to. And, what's your point? I was the first to point out something important about wiggles, but your excuse is that it would've been figured out anyway, so I'm scum? Your logic makes no sense. I thought wiggles was scummy but hiro was scummier. So I voted hiro. You claim to adhere to Occam's Razor but you ignore the simplest explanation when it's staring you in the face. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh is not scum because Mr. Wiggles wrote an analysis on him, I doubt that the scum wanted either of them to get lynched day1, so Mr. Wiggles wouldn't try to make the lynch between the two of them. This is WIFOM, though. I agree with you that Meapak doesn't look scum, but for different reasons than this. You can't simply assume scum won't make other scum look bad, because that's not always true. Think about it, I don't think Palmar would've said he thought the optimal play for scum day 1 was to bus unless it actually has happened. I didn't agree with it earlier but it's certainly possible, we just cannot rule things out based on unbased assumptions. That's how, for example, town often falls into the trap of getting a "confirmed townie" and letting him live. No, it is not WIFOM that two scum do not want a lynch to be between themselves on day1. They want both to make it through day1. Palmar said to ignore everything he said during the night including his hard bussing theory, a theory that also surprised me as I wrote in the thread. I don't propose lynching only between those who didn't vote for Mr. Wiggles, but I think that it is very much more likely that we find scum there so that's where I'm looking. We can think about something else later. On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
jaybrundage is not scum because I think that a newbie would not throw a crazy vote 5 minutes into the game without consulting his much more experienced scum buddy. I don't think Mr. Wiggles would have gone out without giving jaybrundage some advice and I don't think jaybrundage looks coached, his newbieness looks very real. Wait again, how can you assume this? One person thinks jay looks coached, you think he doesn't look coached. Don't you see that there is no room here to just assume those things? We can't have it both ways, since between you and Meapak there's nothing objective that furthers one argument over the other. Yea, it's hard to be objective about whether someone looks coached or not. Same about whether someone looks genuine or fake or fabricate and all that. I can only say that I doubt Mr. Wiggles would go out without giving some advice to his newbie scum buddy. Mr. Wiggles put a lot of effort into the thread when he was about to get lynched, do you really think he just totally ignored jaybrundage in the QT? That would make no sense. If what you think Wiggles did was effort, then I really have to question what you are talking about. Wiggles rolled over and died, he did next to nothing to save himself. If you think he put a lot of effort into his case on Meapak then I don't really know if you're reading the same game I am. Also, when and where did Palmar say to ignore what he said during the night? He died that night, he certainly couldn't have said it in retrospect unless I missed something. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:
I am never sure that anybody is scum. If I could lynch anybody right now I would lynch wherebugsgo, that's how sure I am but I kinda wanted some input from the rest of you before I made a case and none of you seem too hooked on the idea ... other than jaybrundage. Up till this statement you hadn't said anything scummy, but I find this really strange. You wanted to lynch me, but you didn't push it strongly because you wanted other people's approval? That's backward thinking, you make a case on someone you think is scum and THEN you see how other people react. Waiting to make a case because you want to hear other opinions is rather weird, because you won't usually hear much unless you actually make the case to begin with. Look through my games. I doubt I've ever pushed any lynch harder than this. What? Your defense is that you don't push lynches hard, so...then what? lol. You should have no fear of pushing a case if you're town, your apprehension is what is setting me off. I don't understand why you would be apprehensive when I know as town you push ideas very strongly. Your ideas might not always make sense but you don't wait around for people to agree with you before pushing them, normally. Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:50 prplhz wrote:On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 02:17 prplhz wrote:I don't like the no lynch idea because I don't think it is a good idea to blues. In case we don't have a detective there's going to be a ton of WIFOM involved, also it could all go wrong. And the way it looks, we're going to lynch jaybrundage, the guy who might be the hardest to get a concrete read on. Scum is never going to shoot him and we'll be left with your null tell still in 3 real days. - 1 cop, 1 vt: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 vt: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone. There's a lot of WIFOM here.
- 1 doc, 1 vt: This case is laden with WIFOM as Scum can elect not to shoot to soft confirm doc's target. Most likely I think scum will just shoot two guys and we'll have wasted a lynch for nothing.
- 1 cop, 1 jail: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies. Tons of stuff could go wrong, jailor could jail cop and scum could elect not to shoot that night. What would happen then?
- 1 cop, 1 doc: Best case we win the game, worst case we lose 2 townies.
- 1 jail, 1 doc: Best case we confirm 3 townies, worst case we lose 2 townies without confirming anyone.
I like the best case scenarios. I don't like the worst case scenarios. Imagine if we sit here in two days, our doc dead and another townie dead, no one claiming any other blue role and jaybrundage still alive. How would you like that situation? I don't like the idea of putting a huge responsibility on the blue(s) when we have no idea if they have the skill or ability to even further town's goal this game with an additional two nights to perform their actions. Ideally, we win the game but I'd much rather lynch jaybrundage than no lynch. If jaybrundage is at 4 votes at the end of the day I'll switch to him.This isn't all thought out I admit but I'm not a huge statistics buff. I still think it's not a great idea to no lynch. I hope you meant three votes and not four, since four votes means jay would already be hammered and you would be wasting your vote. Most of the rest of the post is rather weird because the best case in all of the situations is that we win the game and the worst case is we lose! (lol wut) I mean, what was the point of all of that? Yes, three of course. Yes, it's a weird post. I just wanted to show that I'd thought about it, in the end I arrived at the same conclusion as a lot of other people: it's not worth it. I'm not a statistics buff so I can't give you numbers but it just seems to risky and town is in a good position right now so I don't think it's worth it. On November 20 2011 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 20 2011 03:56 prplhz wrote:
I had that feeling too Meapak_Ziphh, but I thought he'd actually read some guides and then, Mr. Wiggles isn't in the QT and he hasn't written several posts for jaybrundage. Maybe he pointed out some stuff for jaybrundage that he could do or say, but that doesn't make any sense when jaybrundage elects to go for sandroba, which is a crazy move and I really doubt that Mr. Wiggles told him to do that, I should think that he would have told him to go for somebody else.
I'd much rather see jaybrundage hang than a no lynch. He's the second most scummy by far, even though I'd still prefer wherebugsgo. If there are 4 votes on jaybrundage before deadline, I'm gonna switch to him.
@sandroba
What do you want to do tomorrow then if jaybrundage flips green? You said you had a harder time reading newbies than more seasoned players, and I feel that your jaybrundage lynch isn't as much a scum read as it is a you-will-never-get-a-read-on-him-anyway read. Also, you could be dead tomorrow so I hope that you will be active tonight if jaybrundage doesn't flip scum. As sandro pointed out (sometime yesterday?) sandro actually, from a scum perspective, probably doesn't have much thread cred. Look at it this way; by the end of day 1 he was one of the most inactive players, he was relatively indecisive, and there was never any suspicion on him. Even now there has been no suspicion on him. That's an excellent opportunity for scum to open up an attack, since they love players like that. It makes it look as if they are doing real analysis, they are obviously making an original attack, since no one else found that person scummy, and analysis can be fabricated because the player is relatively inactive. When you think about it like that, it's not so far-fetched that a scum player would attack sandro. The bigger assumption is actually the one you're making, that a new player wouldn't attack sandro since he's a well-known good townie or whatever. That assumption relies on wiggles telling him that, and trying to figure out what scum would do in that kind of situation is very similar to predicting or making sense of night kills; only scum know that. sandroba has a lot of town credit, he hammered Mr. Wiggles. I don't think you could pick a worse day2 target than sandroba, especially for a new guy since he's gonna get destroyed no matter what. It's a bit hard to judge since jaybrundage is new but I just think he strikes me as a new guy with a very misguided attack on sandroba. A lot of new players think they've figured it out and that they're batman, that's what he uses to explain his late Mr. Wiggles vote too, a crazy plan that makes no sense. I think newbies like these and it fits on him, while I think that it's hard to overplay the newbie card as a newbie. I disagree with you, sandroba wouldn't be a terrible choice for a scum to attack. He's not the best and I agree with you on that; so then why would we consider optimal cases? Since jay is new he's not going to play optimally regardless of his alignment. It doesn't make much sense to push sandro from either alignment but it makes more sense from a scum perspective. Yes, sandro hammered wiggles, but look at how jay keeps talking about Palmar's idea that it's hindering our thought process to eliminate the possibility scum would bus.
This big post on that day, day 2, was the big "?" for me. I was beginning to doubt your townieness. I was having second thoughts about Jay, but in the end he was way more scummy. My second choice on day 2 was you, but I never explicitly stated this.
When I have scumreads I tend to do this because I can trap scum that way. If I set them off early then they will kill me. So I figured I'd check you that night and if the kill still went through then we'd lynch hiro.
On November 20 2011 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again. We'll probably need to look hard at who might have considered bussing scum, since if Jay is not scum, and since I think Meapak is pretty town, scum would probably be in the prpl/Erandorr/hiro/sandro side.
One thing I do kind of subconsciously is list my best scumread first in a list. The rest of the list tends to be arbitrary but my best read is nearly always listed first. You are listed first here.
On November 20 2011 08:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 08:14 jaybrundage wrote:On November 20 2011 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
We lynch Jay, and if he flips town we brush that off and reevaluate again I will reread again since Erandorr has posted something (I just kinda skimmed it, sorry) about Meapak and I want to see for myself again if there's anything that I missed.
I value Erandorr's opinion here because he's a confirmed town to me.
Now look at my first post the next day, after you called me scum and Erandorr had died:
On November 21 2011 14:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
Prpl I'd strongly suggest that you build a case, since I really can't say anything other than "I'm not scum" at this point. I've already addressed your earlier points and defending myself will be a further waste of time today. I'll answer any questions you have, but if you are town (which think you are) then you should weigh in on Meapak/hiro.
I tell you that defending myself will be a waste of time. I tell you that I'll answer any questions you have. I am completely complacent. I tell you that I believe you are town and that you should focus on Meapak/hiro.
This is almost a complete 180 from the previous day/night when I began attacking you and telling you that you didn't make sense. After jay flipped town I wanted to kill you. Then my check returned negative so I said, okay, let's go for hiro.
On November 22 2011 09:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Meapak what do you think of prpl?
Baiting.
I didn't ask if Meapak thought you were scum. I could have easily phrased it that way if I wanted to.
On November 22 2011 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
prpl you just keep saying I'm scummy and your case is terrible. You're wasting our time right now.
Again, I don't attack you based on your bad logic even though I could. In fact, in any other situation, whether as scum or regular town, I probably would. But instead I tell you that you're wasting time.
On November 23 2011 14:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
prpl can you explain the point of that post?
You said all that stuff about sandro only to call him town at the end rofl
This is like the fourth or fifth time I address you and I don't attack you.
Didn't you find it weird that I was attacking you on day 2 and then suddenly I just stopped? I went from "dude I feel weird about you and none of this makes sense" to "stop wasting our time, I'm not scum."
Every single time I said something like that I was trying to telegraph to you that I was blue with a town check on you.
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Sure.
wherebugsgo, my response is in the paragraph above. It's latin letters.
Something tells me that you're scum and I just can't shake it. In the end, I'd much rather think that you're a great scum than that you're a weird not-too-great jailer-townie. Sorry about that.
##Unvote
##Vote sandroba
We can end day whenever.
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If sandroba is town why didn't he try to win this game today. I have been on wherebugsgo's back since day2, why didn't he just vote wherebugsgo and hope that Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo would relent which I would find very likely. A lot more likely than that I would relent, I've been on his back since day2 and I didn't bend in yesterday. That would win him the game. Instead he chose to go for deconduo, which is only something a townie would do. Scum have no reason to try to lynch one townie over the other, while town have reason for finding the last scum.
I just don't get it. sandroba is 100% town in my book. Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo is 10% scum and wherebugsgo is 90% scum. We're talking certainty, not quantity, because then wherebugsgo would be 100%.
Man.
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Maybe "certainty" should be "probability" and "quantity" should be some other word or something. What do I know, I'm just a simple dane.
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On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
@deconduo
How do you feel about how hard sandroba shut down hiro protagonist as lynch candidate for day1? He really stuck his neck out there, there wasn't too much analysis it was just "I looks more like he just accidentally". That was really ballsy, and that was at a point where attention was slowly shifting towards Mr. Wiggles. Why the hell would a scum sandroba do this? He could have pushed hiro protagonist harder and he has a lot of town sway, that could very likely have ended in a hiro protagonist lynch on day1, and a hiro protagonist lynch that no one could blame anybody for because the dude didn't really bring his a-game.
I wouldn't call this a 'hard shut down'
On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro.
It looked like hiro was going to be lynched at that point anyway. I know as mafia its great to oppose a townlynch when it looks like there's no way of stopping it, you get town cred for free. I doubt he thought the lynch would flip to wiggles so quickly, and I think his posts reflect that. As scum you don't want to be on the town lynch, you want to oppose it but still have the lynch happen. If at the time he posted the above he instead used all his town cred to get hiro lynched, there would have been a lot of scrutiny on him day 2. Again, I'm pretty sure he thought hiro would get lynched, and he just wanted to FOS wiggles for town cred later if wiggles got caught. He could then push the people who voted for the hiro lynch the next day. He didn't think the lynch would change so fast, and by the time he realised it it was too late and he had to bus.
On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
Your point that sandroba voted Mr. Wiggles because wherebugsgo or Meapak_Ziphh would have voted hiro protagonist just to avoid a null lynch is stupid. It is insane. They both voted hiro protagonist, so if he had achieved majority (Meapak_Ziphh, wherebugsgo, jaybrundage, sandroba, Mr. Wiggles), and they all thought that hiro protagonist was more scummy, and then they suddenly changed to Mr. Wiggles? That would make no sense, a townie would never do that, and a scum would never change his vote to push his buddy into the gallows in place of a very scummy townie.
PLEASE
I think you misunderstood something because I never said anything like that. I said Sandroba voted for wiggles because it was too late to save him, there was already 4 votes on him and the tide had turned. He did it to save face.
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I also think WBG is town because of his meta. He's less aggressive and argumentative as town, which ties in with his play in this game.
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On November 26 2011 00:52 prplhz wrote:
If sandroba is town why didn't he try to win this game today. I have been on wherebugsgo's back since day2, why didn't he just vote wherebugsgo and hope that Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo would relent which I would find very likely. A lot more likely than that I would relent, I've been on his back since day2 and I didn't bend in yesterday. That would win him the game. Instead he chose to go for deconduo, which is only something a townie would do. Scum have no reason to try to lynch one townie over the other, while town have reason for finding the last scum.
I just don't get it. sandroba is 100% town in my book. Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo is 10% scum and wherebugsgo is 90% scum. We're talking certainty, not quantity, because then wherebugsgo would be 100%.
Man.
You realise that you are voting for me right?
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On November 26 2011 02:12 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
@deconduo
How do you feel about how hard sandroba shut down hiro protagonist as lynch candidate for day1? He really stuck his neck out there, there wasn't too much analysis it was just "I looks more like he just accidentally". That was really ballsy, and that was at a point where attention was slowly shifting towards Mr. Wiggles. Why the hell would a scum sandroba do this? He could have pushed hiro protagonist harder and he has a lot of town sway, that could very likely have ended in a hiro protagonist lynch on day1, and a hiro protagonist lynch that no one could blame anybody for because the dude didn't really bring his a-game.
I wouldn't call this a 'hard shut down' Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. It looked like hiro was going to be lynched at that point anyway. I know as mafia its great to oppose a townlynch when it looks like there's no way of stopping it, you get town cred for free. I doubt he thought the lynch would flip to wiggles so quickly, and I think his posts reflect that. As scum you don't want to be on the town lynch, you want to oppose it but still have the lynch happen. If at the time he posted the above he instead used all his town cred to get hiro lynched, there would have been a lot of scrutiny on him day 2. Again, I'm pretty sure he thought hiro would get lynched, and he just wanted to FOS wiggles for town cred later if wiggles got caught. He could then push the people who voted for the hiro lynch the next day. He didn't think the lynch would change so fast, and by the time he realised it it was too late and he had to bus. Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
Your point that sandroba voted Mr. Wiggles because wherebugsgo or Meapak_Ziphh would have voted hiro protagonist just to avoid a null lynch is stupid. It is insane. They both voted hiro protagonist, so if he had achieved majority (Meapak_Ziphh, wherebugsgo, jaybrundage, sandroba, Mr. Wiggles), and they all thought that hiro protagonist was more scummy, and then they suddenly changed to Mr. Wiggles? That would make no sense, a townie would never do that, and a scum would never change his vote to push his buddy into the gallows in place of a very scummy townie.
PLEASE I think you misunderstood something because I never said anything like that. I said Sandroba voted for wiggles because it was too late to save him, there was already 4 votes on him and the tide had turned. He did it to save face.
Yes of course! This makes sense! I planed a hard bus on wiggles, so I got people thinking he was suspicious, but instead of voting for him early to get the max amount of town cred I vote him late. Yes!
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On November 26 2011 02:22 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 02:12 deconduo wrote:On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
@deconduo
How do you feel about how hard sandroba shut down hiro protagonist as lynch candidate for day1? He really stuck his neck out there, there wasn't too much analysis it was just "I looks more like he just accidentally". That was really ballsy, and that was at a point where attention was slowly shifting towards Mr. Wiggles. Why the hell would a scum sandroba do this? He could have pushed hiro protagonist harder and he has a lot of town sway, that could very likely have ended in a hiro protagonist lynch on day1, and a hiro protagonist lynch that no one could blame anybody for because the dude didn't really bring his a-game.
I wouldn't call this a 'hard shut down' On November 16 2011 19:10 sandroba wrote:
I don't like the hiro lynch. I've read his posts and while his logic path is not stellar, his posts seem genuine and doesn't seem like he is trying to hide. I see him arguing controversial issues and not thinking carefully before he posts. Not mafia imo.
I'm not quite sold on any lynch in particular yet, but I'm against lynching hiro. It looked like hiro was going to be lynched at that point anyway. I know as mafia its great to oppose a townlynch when it looks like there's no way of stopping it, you get town cred for free. I doubt he thought the lynch would flip to wiggles so quickly, and I think his posts reflect that. As scum you don't want to be on the town lynch, you want to oppose it but still have the lynch happen. If at the time he posted the above he instead used all his town cred to get hiro lynched, there would have been a lot of scrutiny on him day 2. Again, I'm pretty sure he thought hiro would get lynched, and he just wanted to FOS wiggles for town cred later if wiggles got caught. He could then push the people who voted for the hiro lynch the next day. He didn't think the lynch would change so fast, and by the time he realised it it was too late and he had to bus. On November 25 2011 16:00 prplhz wrote:
Your point that sandroba voted Mr. Wiggles because wherebugsgo or Meapak_Ziphh would have voted hiro protagonist just to avoid a null lynch is stupid. It is insane. They both voted hiro protagonist, so if he had achieved majority (Meapak_Ziphh, wherebugsgo, jaybrundage, sandroba, Mr. Wiggles), and they all thought that hiro protagonist was more scummy, and then they suddenly changed to Mr. Wiggles? That would make no sense, a townie would never do that, and a scum would never change his vote to push his buddy into the gallows in place of a very scummy townie.
PLEASE I think you misunderstood something because I never said anything like that. I said Sandroba voted for wiggles because it was too late to save him, there was already 4 votes on him and the tide had turned. He did it to save face. Yes of course! This makes sense! I planed a hard bus on wiggles, so I got people thinking he was suspicious, but instead of voting for him early to get the max amount of town cred I vote him late. Yes!
Please show me where I said you planned a hard bus on Wiggles lol. That's the exact opposite of what I said...
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Yes I am pretty much aware of that sandroba, what do you want me to do? Convince wherebugsgo to vote for deconduo?
wherebugsgo, how would you like switching to deconduo instead of sandroba?
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How about you convince wherebugsgo to vote for deconduo, I'll switch.
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So you'd rather lynch me and lose the game then lynch decon or no lynch.
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I have to think about this.
You're both scummy for almost opposite reasons. (ofc not decon particularly, it's all what Meapak did lol)
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Yes.
I mean .. what kind of question is that?
I'd rather lynch wherebugsgo than lynch anybody else. If neither sandroba nor deconduo thinks that wherebugsgo is scum, then there's a good chance that he's town. If wherebugsgo is town then he's probably better at judging this situation than I am. That's why, if I can't lynch wherebugsgo, I'm going to follow him. It is up to sandroba and deconduo if they want to lynch the other dude then you have to reason with wherebugsgo. You must realize that if he is town, then he's a lot easier to reason with than I am, he is better at playing town than I am. If somebody wants a no lynch we can do that but you need to have something to add tomorrow 'cause other than that you're just going to lose a townie in exchange for WIFOM, or you'll have a repeat of today and I see no reason for that unless you have something to actually add. If you tell me you need more time I will no lynch, if not then I will proceed with voting with wherebugsgo.
You've been lazy all game and you've lynched two townies. I don't see why you couldn't be scum even though I think it would be weird how you acted on day1 and how you've acted today. I still think that wherbugsgo is the last scum but I gotta listen to sandroba and deconduo, one of them is town right? Also, I'm sick and tired of pushing wherebugsgo, I've been doing it for like a week and there's only ever been one single other vote on him, for like a couple of hours.
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Since sarcasm doesn't really work over the internet, no I would not like to lose the game. I guess we can no lynch if any of sandroba or deconduo wants but of course the guy who is getting lynched wants to no lynch. I guess I'll have to say that if wherebugsgo thinks he knows who the last scum is then we will lynch that guy, if sandroba and deconduo agrees to vote wherebugsgo then we'll lynch that guy.
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I don't want to no lynch. I want to lynch decon who is the last scum. Filter him and you see him posting cases all game long and then disregarding it to lynch whoever has more votes (day 2 and 3). The sole exception to this rule is when wiggles was up for lynch where he said "Wiggles is scummy, but Hiro is scummier."
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prpl can you please reread the thread and make an argument for one of sandro or decon?
Obviously asking sandro or decon will get them to simply attack each other. I need your input on this.
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Then why doesn't wherebugsgo want to lynch him?
Can anybody answer this question?!
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I already said I think Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo is scummier than sandroba but not by so much I'd want to put all my eggs in that bag. If you agree that we should lynch him then lets go ahead.
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omg. I keep flip flopping today, it's like almost literally 50/50 to me. What sucks is that there are no outside opinions because everyone is dead and you have done nothing but focus me.
If we ask one of decon/sandro they just attack the other and there's no real progress. If I ask you, you just say "pick one."
Right now my brain says sandro is not scum anymore. 12 hours ago it was saying sandro IS scum. In 3 hours will it think the same?
god damn.
If you prefer Meapak/decon, explain.
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I think if sandroba had been scum he wouldn't have doubted your claim. Your claim was very breadcrumbed and I had already made a post saying that I thought that sandroba was very town so he would have no reason to not just say that you and I are confirmed town and that we need to lynch Meapak_Ziphh. I think sandroba would have tried to close the game.
I also don't think he is scum because he just shut down the option of him voting hiro protagonist on day1. He just said "I don't feel that his posts are genuine" and that is characteristic lazy sandroba, and he couldn't really flip flop on it. At that point there were a lot of people who were starting to take a good look at Mr. Wiggles and I don't think scum sandroba would have tried to shut down hiro protagonist so hard if he was scum, he would have left the door open.
I think that him lynching hiro protagonist and jaybrundage was shit. This speaks against him but it's classic lazy sandroba again. He already said day1 that he has problems with bad/scum distinction but I don't know how true that is since I only have his word for it.
Meapak_Ziphh has not been very impressive. Nothing speaks in his favor except how I don't think that scum would bus on day1, and if they did they would probably do it harder. When Mr. Wiggles started his case on Meapak_Ziphh the lynch would very likely be between the two, why didn't Meapak_Ziphh vote Mr. Wiggles for town credit then? Instead he stayed on hiro protagonist. Maybe they were afraid that the distancing would be too obvious if Meapak_Ziphh bussed on an OMGUS of sort, maybe Meapak_Ziphh had attacked hiro protagonist too hard to think that he could switch, but a lot of people had switched from hiro protagonist on hardly any reasonable other than "dun thnk hes scum" why shouldn't he be able to do that too?
Conclusion: Meapak_Ziphh is more scummy than sandroba.
As for words like "genuine" and "fabricated" and stuff like that, I have no idea. Mr. Wiggles' stuff looked fake, but the reads I'm getting from sandroba and Meapak_Ziphh are too weak that I'm gonna trust them. If you held a gun to my head I'd say that sandroba looked more fake but that's nothing to go on at all.
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What do you make of sandro trying to take credit for being the first to point out Wiggles' scumminess day 1?
I take it you think that Meapak was distancing?
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I say that Meapak_Ziphh wasn't distancing, but Mr. Wiggles was. I think this is a bit weird, since there was no reason for Meapak_Ziphh not to jump on Mr. Wiggles at that point and claim some town credit for the lynch of a red. He could have been the 4th vote on Mr. Wiggles but instead he ended up on hiro protagonist. Why would he do that?
Why would Mr. Wiggles, who had already been called out for being fake and fabricated, try to make a case on Meapak_Ziphh? He could have doomed his scumbuddy if he had slipped up somehow.
I'm the wrong person to ask about the credit thing, because I have a hard time caring about stuff like that. I believe sandroba is telling the truth from his perspective, he probably thinks he was the first one to point out. If he wasn't, then he made a mistake, a mistake that might just as well have been a townie mistake as it could have been a scum mistake. This is a 20 page game, not some 200 page monster. He will be called out when he says stuff like that, to me it's a null tell really. I ,too, actually thought at some point during this game that I was the first to call Mr. Wiggles out but then I reread the thread and I think you were the first one to call him out. It seems like lazy sandroba to me, and I don't think it says very much about his alignment.
I don't think there is any denying that sandroba had a big role in Mr. Wiggles demise on day1, but that is mainly due to his opposition to the hiro protagonist lynch and his support of the Mr. Wiggles lynch, not so much his vote even though it obviously did something too.
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alright. I think everything you've said makes sense; thanks for the clarity. I agree with you. I leaned toward Meapak being scum at the beginning of the day when sandro didn't CC me. Then I was confused for a bit since Meapak didn't either, but I realized that would still make sense from his perspective because he didn't know whether you were green or blue. (although he could've probably still jailor CCed me)
I guess he didn't come up with it or something, who knows. Everything else makes more sense now from the perspective that Meapak was scum than sandro. Sandro hammered wiggles, which you might think was a bus, but he was influential in getting Wiggles on the lynch candidacy for day 1, so that pretty much rules out a bus. Meapak all game has been soft FoSing me despite having the exact same reads as me, and that has been making me feel strange. It makes some sense but at the same time it's almost like he was setting me up for the fall this entire time.
Now of course he couldn't do that because I claimed jailor, so he switched off me into the only thing left that makes sense, attacking sandro. Okay. I'm good with that.
Let's lynch decon and win this game.
##unvote
##vote deconduo.
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wherebugsgo changed his vote.
##Unvote
##Vote deconduo
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I don't think I'm going to change my mind at this point, anything further will just make my head explode.
Now we just wait till the flip.
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I am very uncomfortable with you listening to me. We all know that you're jailer now, you can start being KICKASS again, you can't hide behind your "Oh I'm trying to not attract any scum attention because then maybe they'll kill me and I'm blue!" anymore. I'm not really the best townie around and I can mention 5 things I missed on those points I just made, and it would surprise me if wherebugsgo couldn't mention 500 things more.
If deconduo and sandroba find out that they'd rather lynch wherebugsgo I'm still all for that, lol.
Also, this has been a very fun game. It's really hard to tie scum to somebody else when he dies night1. I think we wasted 2 lynches just blindly following sandroba on his crusade against newer players. These things have left us in a pretty hard situation here at mylo.
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On November 26 2011 06:57 prplhz wrote:
I am very uncomfortable with you listening to me. We all know that you're jailer now, you can start being KICKASS again, you can't hide behind your "Oh I'm trying to not attract any scum attention because then maybe they'll kill me and I'm blue!" anymore. I'm not really the best townie around and I can mention 5 things I missed on those points I just made, and it would surprise me if wherebugsgo couldn't mention 500 things more.
If deconduo and sandroba find out that they'd rather lynch wherebugsgo I'm still all for that, lol.
Also, this has been a very fun game. It's really hard to tie scum to somebody else when he dies night1. I think we wasted 2 lynches just blindly following sandroba on his crusade against newer players. These things have left us in a pretty hard situation here at mylo.
I don;t have much of a choice it seems if I can't convince you Sandro is scum.
##Unvote
##Vote WhereBugsGo
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On November 26 2011 06:57 prplhz wrote:
I am very uncomfortable with you listening to me. We all know that you're jailer now, you can start being KICKASS again, you can't hide behind your "Oh I'm trying to not attract any scum attention because then maybe they'll kill me and I'm blue!" anymore. I'm not really the best townie around and I can mention 5 things I missed on those points I just made, and it would surprise me if wherebugsgo couldn't mention 500 things more.
If deconduo and sandroba find out that they'd rather lynch wherebugsgo I'm still all for that, lol.
Also, this has been a very fun game. It's really hard to tie scum to somebody else when he dies night1. I think we wasted 2 lynches just blindly following sandroba on his crusade against newer players. These things have left us in a pretty hard situation here at mylo.
lol look at decon now.
he's voting me rofl.
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@deconduo
That shit is scummy as fuck. You're trying to convince sandroba not to vote for you right now.
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If it isn't clear yet, I'm not changing my vote until sandroba changes.
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lol prpl he just literally said, "I can't convince you sandro is scum so I'm going to vote with you to try and get the lynch off me."
He just said less than 12 hours ago that my claim was really solid and believable, and that sandro was sure scum. Now within an instant of me changing my mind he enters the thread and says he's voting me because he can't convince you that sandro is scum.
You realize how bad that is?
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On November 26 2011 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol prpl he just literally said, "I can't convince you sandro is scum so I'm going to vote with you to try and get the lynch off me."
He just said less than 12 hours ago that my claim was really solid and believable, and that sandro was sure scum. Now within an instant of me changing my mind he enters the thread and says he's voting me because he can't convince you that sandro is scum.
You realize how bad that is?
I have 2 choices:
-I die
-You die
I know I'm town. I THINK you're town, but I have no way of knowing. 5% chance to win is better than 0%
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I'm not changing to wbg. If he is scum, he did a wonderful job with breadcrumbing his checks and future role claim and so it's well deserved if he wins. The night actions don't really sit well with me and the whole previous argument about claims went over my head, but I've been suspicious of MZ since day one (tbh his very first post that says "let's stop trolling guyz" is what made me take a look at him day1) and him being scum is the explanation that fits the best.
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On November 26 2011 07:22 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol prpl he just literally said, "I can't convince you sandro is scum so I'm going to vote with you to try and get the lynch off me."
He just said less than 12 hours ago that my claim was really solid and believable, and that sandro was sure scum. Now within an instant of me changing my mind he enters the thread and says he's voting me because he can't convince you that sandro is scum.
You realize how bad that is? I have 2 choices: -I die -You die I know I'm town. I THINK you're town, but I have no way of knowing. 5% chance to win is better than 0%
The fact that you're using this false dichotomy is hilarious.
Did you completely forget about the choice you had like an hour ago, to convince us sandro is scum?
Now you're not even trying to convince us sandro is scum, you're trying to convince sandro that I'm scum, since you know prpl will jump on that lynch faster than you can say "derp."
Thanks for making my job easy, now I'm 100% sure you're scum.
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On November 26 2011 07:23 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2011 07:22 deconduo wrote:On November 26 2011 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
lol prpl he just literally said, "I can't convince you sandro is scum so I'm going to vote with you to try and get the lynch off me."
He just said less than 12 hours ago that my claim was really solid and believable, and that sandro was sure scum. Now within an instant of me changing my mind he enters the thread and says he's voting me because he can't convince you that sandro is scum.
You realize how bad that is? I have 2 choices: -I die -You die I know I'm town. I THINK you're town, but I have no way of knowing. 5% chance to win is better than 0% The fact that you're using this false dichotomy is hilarious. Did you completely forget about the choice you had like an hour ago, to convince us sandro is scum? Now you're not even trying to convince us sandro is scum, you're trying to convince sandro that I'm scum, since you know prpl will jump on that lynch faster than you can say "derp." Thanks for making my job easy, now I'm 100% sure you're scum.
I tried convincing you guys Sandro was scum. You are both voting for me. It didn't work. I'm gone in 20min so I don't have a choice. You dying is better than me dying, but both are bad. I have no choice though, so GG mafia.
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Also I can't convince you I'm not scum because I don't know what MZ was thinking when he posted. I don't know his thoughts on why he voted for X or Y. I was dropped in on the last day because MZ didn't want town to lose due to his inactivity. If he was mafia he would have just conceded.
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Yea you are screwed deconduo, I can only agree with you on that.
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##Unvote
##Vote Sandroba
My last post, see you guys tomorrow.
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Night 4
deconduo the green townie is lynched with three votes
Send in actions plz!!!
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HURRAH! MAFIA WIN!
wherebugsgo visits prphlz and kills him! GG
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Wiggles why you roll scum all the time
made my job so hard lol
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Wherebugsgo! Too good at scum!
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God that's two games in a row where I played like utter shit. Sorry guys, we had that won but I pretty much failed :/
Also thanks decon for subbing in at the last second, thanksgiving happened and I didn't feel like it would be fair if I went inactive on the last day when I was the lynch target. If Rad wants a one game ban I'd understand that.
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On November 22 2011 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's kill hiro, and then afterward we'll need to reevaluate.
Couldn't believe no-one picked up on this at the time :-)
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Hey guys
I try to learn something from every game I am in but I am having a hard time seeing what I could have done differently in this game. I feel like I had good reads and I really tried hard to argue for myself but it just seemed like there was no way to convince anybody of anything I said. I argued against lynching jaybrundage and against lynching hiro protagonist and all the while I argued for lynching wherebugsgo. Was there anything I could have done differently/better to maybe have a better chance of getting wherebugsgo lynched over the two townies? I really think I thought everything through very thoroughly and I didn't think it would make sense that anybody else should be the last scum. I got this idea at the beginning of day2 and it stayed with me all the way.
I have no idea how I was able to argue for the same lynch 3 days in a row without getting lynched, shot or having my lynch go through. I would like if somebody could possibly explain this to me.
There was probably a lot I missed and maybe I even suspected wherebugsgo for the wrong reasons, maybe this was why I could not garner any support at all. How could I have made wherebugsgo slip up in a way that would convince other people to consider the possibility of him being scum? Was there anything I should have mentioned that I didn't? I think I wrote a ton of stuff about him in the thread and I never seriously considered that anybody else could be scum. It just didn't make any sense when I thought about it.
About my doctor role, I think it used it absolutely right. sandroba and Palmar were my candidates for night1 protect. There were no major reasons to have either one with me into mid/late game over the other, and they were obviously prime targets for a scum that had to take chances after a disastrous day1. Maybe I should have brought Palmar because he stays more active, but I thought that sandroba is better scum hunter and that he is more level headed and less likely just go on a crusade and have everybody follow mostly because of his reputation. It's too far fetched to say anything about how the game would have turned out if I had protected Palmar over sandroba on night1, but if I could play this over I'd definitely give him benefit of the doubt and protect Palmar instead.
wherebugsgo played a terrific game and I'm sure he had his fun too, but I also think that town did pretty bad considering what a great start we had.
Thanks to Radfield and chaoser for hosting.
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On November 26 2011 19:54 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's kill hiro, and then afterward we'll need to reevaluate.
Couldn't believe no-one picked up on this at the time :-)
What is there to pick up? That's what sandroba thought too and he's one of the best regular townies on this subforum.
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No prpl you played great, I had my head stuck in my ass and failed to realize wbg could be mafia till his claim. By then, the way decon reacted to the claim accepting it completely tipped me off towards lynching him =/.
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I still don't think lynching jay was a mistake in that spot and I would have done it again I think. Lynching hiro was dumb as fuck in retrospect, but if you are going to go missing and post once every cycle you should prob ask for a replacement =/.
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prplhz made two mistakes, but neither of them are terrible, overall I'd say this is the most solid performance I've seen from him. Well played prplhz.
The only things you should've done differently are protecting me on n1. I disagree entirely with doc protects on meta, just protect whomever seems to be willing to put in time and is making sense. Everyone has good games and bad games, and I was feeling on my game for this one. But, protecting sandroba was not a terrible choice, definitely the second best.
Secondly you should have claimed medic immediately at lylo. It didn't matter this game, but always claim immediately in lylo, there is no reason to hold it off.
These are both very, very minor mistakes, and in both cases you did the next best thing. I'd actually say you played best town game of us all this game. I'm impressed.
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The jay lynch was incredibly stupid btw, I'm surprised you guys allowed that to happen.
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It's missing the qualifier for the case that Hiro is scum (and so no re-evaluation would be required), which suggests that the possibility isn't prominent in his mind. Odd given that he had Hiro as one of his two scum candidates at the start of the day.
I may be wrong, but I felt it was a line that WBG was unlikely to write in the circumstances if he wasn't scum.
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The reason I held it off was because wherebugsgo claimed and then the ball was in sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh's court. I was sure that I thought that wherebugsgo was scum, but since everybody else doubted me there were at least 2 townies out there who didn't think I was right and I was arguably the worst townie of those by experience/skill/etc. I doubted myself. So I waited to see if sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh would mess up and claim doc or something. I thought I was 100% town in people's mind at that point (but now that I think about it, I almost always think that everybody else thinks I'm 100% town) and I thought they'd believe my claim over Meapak_Ziphh any day if he decided to claim. Also, if sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh claimed doc then I would know that he was last scum and then wherebugsgo would be townie and blah blah blah, I didn't think delaying my claim a little could go wrong and I would have a chance to convince myself that sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh actually was scum for free. I did decide to come out with my claim very early on the day because of the lack of activity, people would maybe not check the thread in the next 24 hours and they still needed time to digest my claim before deadline and I still thought that wherebugsgo was scum.
I couldn't tell that you were feeling on your game and I have no idea if what that means, if anything, really.
Also, last day was mylo, not lylo.
So why should I have claimed first thing at mylo/lylo? I think if you're considered townie then you might as well just wait and see if somebody else claims something stupid and then you just won the game.
The jaybrundage lynch was very stupid I think too but maybe for different reasons, I tried to prevent it from happening but I thought that if sandroba got jaybrundage out of the way maybe he'll come around and see things my way. This was also one of the reasons I thought wherebugsgo was scum, I doubt he would have allowed that to happen but I was kinda powerless. How could I have prevented it? I made an argument that he seemed genuinely newbie, his day1 vote didn't fit how I think newbie scum would play, and Mr. Wiggles would have left him something to go by which he would have followed, and that something wasn't "go for sandroba". What could I have done more to prevent it? The logic itself "Mr. Wiggles probably had a scum buddy with low to no town pull" is (obviously) not fail proof, even though I think it's not too stupid either.
@wherebugsgo
I'm very interested, did you hit sandroba on night4 or did you just hold your shot? If you hit sandroba then that makes your jailer claim even more impressive, but yea I doubt it. Also, why didn't you just hit me and then make lynch between sandroba/Meakap_Ziphh/deconduo on last day with your jailer claim?
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On November 26 2011 20:26 jaj22 wrote:
It's missing the qualifier for the case that Hiro is scum (and so no re-evaluation would be required), which suggests that the possibility isn't prominent in his mind. Odd given that he had Hiro as one of his two scum candidates at the start of the day.
I may be wrong, but I felt it was a line that WBG was unlikely to write in the circumstances if he wasn't scum.
Maybe you're right but I'm just not a big fan of stuff like that. A one liner is nothing to lynch by, it might attract some attention but that thing there, I doubt it would have convinced anybody of anything. Did you follow the game by the way, I have never seen you in here before? You should join a game some time.
I mean a townie would have to reevaluate if the lynch is town too. Some people say that townies should always just think that their lynch is 100% scum but the only people who know other people's alignment for sure are scum. If anything, this is an unnecessary townie tell that really just degenerates into WIFOM so I would just ignore it (and I did).
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On November 26 2011 20:39 prplhz wrote:
Maybe you're right but I'm just not a big fan of stuff like that. A one liner is nothing to lynch by, it might attract some attention but that thing there, I doubt it would have convinced anybody of anything.
I think the best outcome is that it jolts someone who was railroading themself into re-evaluating WBG's record. On its own it's minor evidence at best.
Did you follow the game by the way, I have never seen you in here before? You should join a game some time.
I read through the last newbie mini and followed this one from the start. Other than that I'm a complete Mafia noob. I'll probably play the next mini.
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Very very well played by Bugs, Hiro lynch was retarded but still justifiable in my opinion, the jay lynch was just stupid. I should have forced an alternative, but honestly i was not 100 percent convinced that he is town at that point myself, even though I was against the lynch.
WBG plays a great scum game. Giant walls of text that no one reads and also very importantly, people(me) underestimate his town play by a lot and actually think he could play this badly. Palmar, could you explain why you were so certain that bugs was scum?
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Also thanks Radfield for hosting
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Well played by wbg until that claim which served no purpose at all
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GG, I tried as well as I could but its kinda hard replacing in on the last day. Pretty elaborate claim by WBG, won't underestimate him again.
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Haha, I noticed that line too, jaj22. (I knew WBG was scum though, so that might have made it stick out more for me). Basically written in the mindset that hiro is town, so he will have to re-evaluate after the flip. :p
I need to stop making shitty first posts to promote "discussion". Really have to find a better way to jump into games if I'm not around when they start, haha. At least I did a decent job of not attaching myself to anyone too hard, or "clearing" anyone too hard. imo
Also gratz to WBG, he played a very good game (Better than me lol).
WBG #1 scum
Wiggles #2 scum
(Sandroba #3 scum??? :p)
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GG well played WBG im suprised you pulled it off but you played well. At least my reads for the town werent that off for my first game i narrowed it down to Hiro and you. Not to bad IMO. well played guys
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the claim served a purpose. It was to draw out the blue.
I couldn't force a lynch of sandro or decon if I didn't claim.
If anyone CCed me, I would've instantly pushed their lynch. I knew I could outargue them. I knew the likelihood of there being 2 blues was almost nonexistent. I breadcrumbed in advance because jailor was the only role I knew I could argue for and make it useful even if I had no useful information on the decisive day. It wasn't a useless claim. Without the claim it would've been very gimmicky and hard for me to outargue Meapak. Prpl was on Meapak's side and I couldn't afford having 2 auto votes on me. Sandro could easily at that point decide to attack me.
With the claim I put town in a tough spot. I knew prpl would probably still attack me but I knew that if I claimed correctly the argument would eventually come down to sandro+meapak.
Also I held my shot on n3, I roleblocked prpl two nights in a row because I thought he was blue. Also on n3 because I knew the argument had to come down between sandro+meapak I figured if either of them is blue it didn't matter so I roleblocked prpl again. I had the best blue read on him after I shot Erandorr.
I shot Palmar n1 because he was making sense, but also because I wanted to shift suspicion away from me+Meapak onto people who would've "bussed" wiggles. Chose to roleblock Erandorr because he was playing very differently and so I thought he was blue.
N2 I shot Erandorr and RBed prpl for the same reasons, basically. Those two were the only ones giving me a blue vibe so I only focused on them. Sandro and meapak were never really threats because they believed I was town.
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Sandroba actually thought you were 99% scum after the claim because your protections made no sense at all. You had the game won until you made the claim as sandroba was completely convinced meapak was it before that
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also that reevaluation line is something I've said as town before.
Everyone needs to do it, not only scum or town. You reevaluate regardless of the flip.
Obviously in this game if hiro flipped scum it wouldn't be necessary.
Although I think that first quoted line was said day 1, where it didn't matter if hiro flipped town or scum. We'd have to reevaluate, always.
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yeah actually I changed the protections at the last minute.
What I said happened was actually 100% true. I was planning on saying that prpl was confirmed town and sandro was confirmed town if I died, and that the players would see why if I flipped.
Instead, I was in a LoL game that lasted too long and I showed up in the thread at 6:05. I actually hadn't thought about who I would've protected if I was the real jailor, so I went with my reads of "who made sense" and when. Day 1 it was actually Palmar who was making more sense than Erandorr, but I switched it around because obviously Palmar died. (oops lol)
Then I said my n2 target was prpl because I thought I could make the most valid argument for him being scummy out of the remaining two players.
Only about 5 seconds after I posted did I realize I could've just said I protted sandro every night.
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On November 26 2011 12:16 Radfield wrote:
Wherebugsgo! Too good at scum!
Ace #2.
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I think you said it on Day 2 or 3, when there was only one scum left. That's what made it stick out a little to me, because if he flipped scum, there's no need to re-evaluate, because the game is over. :p Like I said it was probably nothing, I just found it funny because I knew you were scum.
Again, very good job.
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First off, Hats off to WBG, played a great game. You played the fake blue role very well, Had me convinced. Also good game by Prplhz. you where right about WBG the whole time, and I felt you where town all game long.
Secondly, sorry again for my bad play. I need to learn to not go on tilt when I come under suspicion, because I often get phased by it and then say stupid shit =p. That and post with more clarity, which I find hard to do when I don't have as much time as I would like to play the game. Also, sorry for vanishing the last day I was alive, I thought there was 24 hours more before the lynch. Derp. My mistake was not doing what Meapak did and find a replacement when life got busy, I thought I could do it all, lol. I promise I wont do that in future games, and opt-out if I cant devote the time I need to play the game well. Thanks again to Rad and choaser for hosting.
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yup thanks to Rad+Chaoser for hosting ^^ fun game haha
playing scum is so entertaining. Although it must be frustrating to be misled over and over haha. This game was like a rollercoaster, at times I felt I was really close to being found.
Day 4 was the most nerve-wracking for me, I kept f5ing to see if someone had posted something new. Ultimately I had no idea who would get lynched, I just went with the flow.
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On November 27 2011 07:02 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba actually thought you were 99% scum after the claim because your protections made no sense at all. You had the game won until you made the claim as sandroba was completely convinced meapak was it before that
sandroba didn't think wherebugsgo was scum, he voted him briefly after I claimed doc but then he decided that the claim was too good for wherebugsgo to be scum and he voted deconduo. Game over. If wherebugsgo had not claimed and Meapak_Ziphh or sandroba had been jailer and claimed that, then he would have to counter claim and that would put him in a more difficult situation I think. He might as well just claim straight up, especially when he had it breadcrumbed so well.
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On November 27 2011 08:32 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 07:02 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba actually thought you were 99% scum after the claim because your protections made no sense at all. You had the game won until you made the claim as sandroba was completely convinced meapak was it before that sandroba didn't think wherebugsgo was scum, he voted him briefly after I claimed doc but then he decided that the claim was too good for wherebugsgo to be scum and he voted deconduo. Game over. If wherebugsgo had not claimed and Meapak_Ziphh or sandroba had been jailer and claimed that, then he would have to counter claim and that would put him in a more difficult situation I think. He might as well just claim straight up, especially when he had it breadcrumbed so well.
I talked to sandroba about it and he said that for a while he thought wbg was guaranteed scum purely based on the claim but then convinced himself against it later due to other things
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WBG didn't breadcrumb anything. He delayed a false role claim. He'd need to be proven innocent via death for his bread crumb to be legit with no detective around. I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can not breadcrumb protections or investigations and still be alive. I think the reason some of you guys bought his claim is because you believe breadcrumbs = legit claim.
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On November 26 2011 23:03 Erandorr wrote:
Very very well played by Bugs, Hiro lynch was retarded but still justifiable in my opinion, the jay lynch was just stupid. I should have forced an alternative, but honestly i was not 100 percent convinced that he is town at that point myself, even though I was against the lynch.
WBG plays a great scum game. Giant walls of text that no one reads and also very importantly, people(me) underestimate his town play by a lot and actually think he could play this badly. Palmar, could you explain why you were so certain that bugs was scum?
Irrelevant of later plays, I would have pushed for a WBG lynch on day 2, as can be seen in the observer topic.
Thing is, WBG is now in a stage in mafia games, where he is considered good enough to be forced to make logical calls. His case against Hiro on day one was pretty bad, which is why I immediately dispelled it. I found wiggles more scummy and gave WBG the benefit of the doubt.
This lead me to say something like "The only possible solutions to the puzzle are meapak and wbg". This was because I was already sure Hiro, Jay and Sandroba were town. Errandor could potentially have been troublesome. But WBG would be forced into pushing a lynch on him with me alive, severely limiting his options to make a convincing case.
And again, I said WBG over meapak because of something I can't remember. I tend to pick up on tiny things (anyone remember where I correctly decided tnkted was town in cosmic horror because he posted "lol"?), and something meapak said, or the way he said it made me think "This guy is legit".
So by elimination, I had to go with WBG as the final scum. But his scum play is still so good I can't be certain I'd have gotten him hanged properly.
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lol I just realized, voting WBG in the beginning like Palmar had wanted would have been the best thing
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EPT
