EPTHowever, if he really is not interested in finding mafia at all (which is basicly your first point, yeah he might say he wants to get them but he's not doing so if what you said it correct) that's terribly looking weird.
Newbie Mini Mafia - Page 4
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
However, if he really is not interested in finding mafia at all (which is basicly your first point, yeah he might say he wants to get them but he's not doing so if what you said it correct) that's terribly looking weird. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I've got my vote on hyshes as well ## Vote Hyshes Also how do you know we got a dt? We don't have to have one. Yeah couple of people look blue but they could be medics as well or one medic one dt or whatever. And btw that could be a reason why mafia did not go for obvious lynches as well. Maybe they feared there actually is a medic who would get a hero safe on someone like ciry on day1. A townie is just not going to say "yeah go ahead and lynch me" just because of one vote, no matter how strong the case. He would try to defend and tell the guy where his mistake is to make sure he's not getting lynched because after all, a 100% townie lynch is worse than a 90% townie lynch. After all you know for certain if you are town or not. I did the same although I phrased it a little bit different. I told you to lynch either skrammen or me as I thought it's the only majoritys we're going to get today and since I know I'm not mafia I went for skrammen because I thought he's something about 50% town which is still better than a lynch on me. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Additionally a DT really hasn't that much extra information. I'd say (that is if we got one!) he either checked skrammen or me on night1. So he either knows if I'm red/green or if skrammen is red/green but that's still 9 people left (11 - 1 he checked - himself) he's completly unaware of. | ||
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2) If he is not willing to defend himself himself we can't stop lynching him because of that, because it's not making sense 3) The only possible thing is him being red and thinking he's going to get lynched anyway so he might as well try that one. NO Townie want's to get himself lynched unless it's not possible to not get lynched for some strange reasons, but he'd still try to prevent it (look at my case). | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Also if I would consider voting myself as I townie I sure as hell would make a big post. Knowing I'm going to die I would write down everything I know / think to be true with everything that could possibly help town once they see I flipped green. However I would NOT just go ahead and write "yeah fine whatevs, lynch me" without something else. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 03 2011 22:16 hyshes wrote: I'm not retarded, and this aint stupid play either. It's the only play i got left to have a possible chance on a town win. I'm just kinda hoping it will open your eyes. I'm just offering good working material here. for that purpose, i'm willing to do a sacrifice here. After my action here it will be 6towns vs 3 mafia (assuming mafia kills a townie next night), so still a good majority for the town. Maybe if towns is lucky, it will be 7vs3.. if you flip green we know exactly nothing except for the fact that you've pulled an emo here. It's not like harbs red because he went for you. If that'd true EVERYONE has to be red in here because everyone once accused someone (I guess) If you flip red we know why you did it. | ||
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Toadesstern
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He brought this on himself and we got little time left! Keep in mind it's 20:00 right now in europe and I have to wake up at 7:00 tomorrow so I won't stay until deadine for sure and I guess a lot of people are not going to do so as well. That's why I said to get your votes faster than on day1. We had a big problem focusing our votes because of that issue. If there's nothing that's changing my mind withing 2 hours I'm not going to change my vote because I have to go to bed at some time and we won't be able to get a lynch again. And unlik Zanfa I'm not saying that changing my mind is easy. Given the fact that there's little time left I don't want to risk a no lynch again while he looks scummy as hell just because a couple of guys already went to bed or are away or whatever. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 04 2011 04:26 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: [...] Since 2 is against the rule "play to win", I am stuck with my previous conclusion that he is scum. I thought of that as well but I did not want to say it because if that would be gm's game he would have already stepped in this game yelling something like "when this game is over I will be handing out bans like candy". Same thing happened last game a bit worse :D | ||
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Toadesstern
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6 is the magic number with 11 people alive. | ||
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Now why didn't you do so in the first place? | ||
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It could be anything and the point here is to try and guess who's mafia out of what people say or much more what they don't say. It's not about a bunch of people saying "kill X" without explanation and the party who got more luck wins. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On November 04 2011 07:10 hyshes wrote: I'll rephrase that. Not if everyone shared the same logic as me. ok that's it for me. I tried talking to you, you kept answering in phrases that got no content, I gave you an easy one to go with, you finally started explaining and yet you still refuse to explain something else. That's just not what a townie would do no matter what. I'm going to bed now... Also about that shitty logic, well I don't know I'm doing math at university so yeah I got that attitude that I don't believe in stuff unless it's got a decent explanation or it's proofen somehow because no matter if it's right or wrong the statement got no value if we don't know if that's just a lucky hit or the guy said that because of something else because again: Doing mistakes is not a scum tell as long as they're not on purpose so we have to know. You however refuse to give us that information. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 04 2011 08:00 hyshes wrote: ## Why Taod is scum ## ###################### + Show Spoiler + On October 31 2011 07:28 Toadesstern wrote: Just to clear things up since you brought that statement last game too. Remember my summary last game? I defended you as well and said that I'm pretty sure you're town. Yeah I was a dt but I never checked you since I checked all 3 reds and still knew you where town. I just wanted to tell the other guy so because he might not find out himself. You told me that looks like scum too and I just got to disagree here. Right now I think you posting little is normal because I saw the last game while a few think it's scummy. A couple guys think I made a scummy post by telling dts not to look like dts and ciry said he doesn't think so, which is a defence for me as well and I haven't got something scummy from him until now. So I got to say that logic is flawed :p I still can't believe how that one guy thought I meant to make dts stand out of the crowd, looks a bit strange as if he wants to get town on someone, but that's just my opinion right now and I got to check what he posts the next couple days :p Ok and now I read that thing from chocolate as well. I want you to explain that. Why is it a fos on ciry. I could understand a fos on zanfa although I don't believe it's strange since it totally fits in his style. Well and ciry is the only guy who started a real discussion. Everyone spammed a bit to get something going at all an he went for real talks, like "explain your thoughts" and stuff and from what I see it looks like he is trying to get people to make quality posts rather than spam. Totally fits in his style as well. Go ahead, blame me for defending, which I still think is wrong at this point, but I want your explanation on this. We obviously got very little right now but given what we have there's definitly people around looking more scummy. I've marked a bit in red. Why the hell would you refer to another game? It's not because you were town in that one, you are in this one. + Show Spoiler + On October 31 2011 08:26 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I still would like chocolate to explain why he got a fos on ciry. It might be right (I don't think we got a reason to think so but I won't say it's wrong on day 1 without information  ) but if I had to make a list of people from 1 to 12 where 1 is the guy I think is the most likely to be town and 12 the guy most likely to be mafia in my opinion I'd place ciry somewhere in those top 50% spots.I still think that this is strange. The only reason behind this, as far as I understood it, was ciry "defending" zanfa ? Also, keep in mind getting agressive is kind of a town tell. At least that's what happens to me. Just imagine you post something you think is ok or good, someone quotes it and makes it look like you're scum although you said something totally different, or at least wanted to do so. In that situation I WOULD probably be pissed. At least that's part of the "paranoid-answer" I did on page 9 when you guys asked me about the my post about dt or medics. I just did not think someone could interpretate it that way and thought it's clear and therefore I don't have to explain it. Turned out I was wrong. To sum it up: It might be something but I think it's more of a human nature thing getting into him. Let's face it, if someone accuses you to be mafia and you know yourself you're not the first thing you think is wtf is up with you dude, just reread what I posted. Also he did the exact same thing in the last game. He voted on day1 for me and switched later on his vote and only tried to make me talking. I think those people desperatly trying to point at someone telling us to vote for those guys look way more scummy right now, which is why I still want that explanation from choc. Thats an easy statement to try to convince people you are town. But its well hidden in a huge wall of text, so it does not stand out. Actually good play, but i found it. + Show Spoiler + On October 31 2011 09:08 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and a final note about all those fos things. I still think we should go for a lurker on day-1 unless we got something that sounds scummy and until now I don't think we got something. If we lynch someone who's lurking we got a decent chance of hitting a mafia. Obiously not every mafia style involves lurking. But the two most important parts are (one already mentioned earlier): We force mafia into talking. That's not bad for mafia because of talking but because of talking a lot means a lot of chances of slipping. That's exactly what we want. The more mafia talks, the more likely we're to find something decent out of an analysis. Especially post death. For those who are reading the thread of the last game, take a look at my last post (for those who don't want to read the whole thing just read that one post): Klick me! Just take a look at my analysis. We had 1 guy who made a total of 2 (!) posts and thats all and those other 2 guys made pretty much no posts, as well and STILL we got a decent analysis out of me, not because of what they said but because of what dead, confirmed mafia said (pretty much everything I said about zanfas is stuff from dead mafias except for his one analysis). Just as an example how important this is. That way I at least knew zanfas was 99% town last game. A second point would be our town situation. Of course lynching a mafia is what we want but let's think about what happens if we turn out to lynch a town. If we end up killing a lurking town that's bad because we ended up killing a townie instead of a mafia but killing an active townie is just really bad because killing a townie sucks and on top of that we're destroying townsituation by killing those guys posting. At least as long as it's out of the blue like now. Nice idea.. select a lurker to get a free kill as mafia. And again, the refer to another game where he was town. + Show Spoiler + On October 31 2011 17:31 Toadesstern wrote: Times mentioned in this thread from hosts are in TL-time I guess? So saying day will end 03:00 means 3:00 tl.time right? Since there's nothing else I'm guessing so but would like to get a yes on that Also, I'm voting for chocolate. I still think it's a bit strange but I don't like that fosing around like a mad man. Could have been someone else who did so. He just turned out to attack me and since I know I'm not mafia that does sound a bit strange to me :p I'm at university right now, will be back in 4 hours so maybe we got something out of this when I'm back. ##Vote Chocolate Trying to get an easy hit on a townie without proper argument. + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2011 00:53 Toadesstern wrote: sadly noone made a statement about my vote ;( I actually did not want to vote for chocolate but I'd ve loved to see those reactions from people about that who are already suspicios. first of all Unvote## Chocolate What do you people think about hyshes and risk? Risk is the one I'd like to see make a couple posts since he basicly said nothing and I don't know anything about him. While hyshes... I don't know, could be anything :p Hit failed, next targets lining up. + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2011 02:29 Toadesstern wrote: Ok I'm going with skrammen as well, we need to get a lynch and although I would have liked to get someone else I think going after him is fine, too. ##vote Skrammen Just to get this clear since at least I did not know last game: It's not a simple majority vote, we need 7 people to vote on someone or it's a no-lynch. Having 4 votes on someone and 8 votes spread out is not going to get the guy with 4 votes lynched. Ofc he's also a fine target for you. You don't care wich townie dies. + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2011 02:03 Toadesstern wrote: the problem with 3 is that it would mean that we're not able to get more than 3 votes focussed on someone and I think that is very unlikely because that's 6 (!) guys who are spreading votes. Not the fact that town would be screwed if 3 (pretty much the same as 2) turns out to be true is the thing that makes it the easiest / most likely explanation. I don't know how you guys approach this game but I figured people know that we need to lynch people to get something going. I got to add that I probably forgot one solution. Maybe people didn't read the first post in this thread carefully and did not read my post about it pointing it out again: This game has no simple majority rule. Having 6 votes on Skrammen was not enough to get him lynched although he was the one with the most votes on the list. If there's a couple of people who did not know that for whatever reason, it would be another explanation for why we're not even able to lynch a townie (talking about scenario 2 and 3) because they thought 6 on Skrammen is already enough to get them lynched and no need to change votes. This has to be the biggest tell of all. Throwing numbers that mean nothing. There is no reason to assume that these 6 vote don't include the scums. It was day1 afterall. I assume you can find the rest yourself. 1) Because he said "everyone trying to befriend me got to be mafia". He said the same thing last game and it was wrong. I am not only showing him why this is wrong but also giving him an example of his flawed logic. That is why i mentioned the last game. Since he did not say what he thinks about the red line I'm not sure what he dislikes there. I just said that I'm gettin pissed if people think I'm scum although I'm town. Is that weird? 2) Well yeah. That's the point of this game after all. I was being targeted so I have to convince people I'm town in both scenarios: If I'm green I want to prevent a 100% townie lynch and want to lynch someone else, If I'm red I don't want to be lynched because I'm red. 3) Mafias wants to lurk. If they're able to lurk without being called out that's perfect for them because they can't make scumslips in the first place because they're not even talking. So it's about three major things: - I think it's more likely some mafias are amongst lurkers in a newb-game, also it's not mandatory - We makeing a statement "we don't want lurkers in here, start talking" which is bad for mafa. - lynching a lurker isn't that bad if he turned out to be green as lynching an active green player 4) That without context. Go ahead and search the thread. I stated that I never wanted to lynch choc, I just voted for him to get some information on hyshes and risk and people I was suspicious of. Like if they're following me or if they're trying to convice people to vote for choc for no reason and so on. 5) Yeah again, I'm trying to defend myself and build a case without going into emo-mode and just ragequit. So sure I'm trying to get people off of me. 6) Given how risk and you are playing town I'am maybe willing to believe that town isn't able to focus more than 3 votes on a guy and again we only got that lynch on you because mafia was helping. But I wasn't believing it at that point in time. To sum it up, imo we got kind of a mod-kill. No information here as he (willingly?) played anti-town by refusing to give us information and we lynched him for playing anti-town. I can't blame harb for going after him because if that's not allowed in the first place we won't find a mafia at all. Also I can't blame people on makeing pressure or jumping on the wagon once he pulled that emo. It's just like a modkill... The major point here is that we just can't people allow to unvote someone because the suspicious guy voted for himself. If we start with that behavior we can't lynch anyone because they will just not defend themselves, they will completly ignore the issue, vote for themselves and people have to withdraw their votes because of that. Therefore townsituation is screwed because we'd be a bunch of people starring at each without saying a word because ignoring the blame and voting yourself will be just fine as a defence. | ||
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It could be anything and whats most terrifying ist the fact that mafia probably voted for skrammen on day1. We got risk and hyshes killed and both were not voting for skrammen. However if I look at that voting list and just look at who voted for skrammen I'd say everyone but choc looks amazingly town to me. And choc isn't looking scummy to me, he's just a 0-read for me. I'm just shocked hyshes did turn out green I guess. I really though he's 99% mafia... | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Choc is still a 0-read for me and I don't know what to think about him. However the fact that risk and hyshes both did not vote for skrammen makes me think there's probably a bunch of mafia (that's right, at least 2!) on skrammen. also I don't joke with that monkey's uncle thingie. I'm glad I did not say that when we lynched hyshes 8( | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 05 2011 13:29 sermokala wrote: First off It can't be me no mafia would go inactive Exhibit 1. reasons a threat to onesself and then references that "he knows hes not mafia". his first moves in this very thread are counter to another instead of just srugging off and trying to elaborate on someone else. Smart scum moves proving his guilt. Exhibit 2 Switches up his game then (this is page 13) going from randomly choseing someone rescinds this and then trys to get a lynch to happen without justifying it. simple slight of hand to remove any question to himself about anything while achieving his end goal as a scum. Exhibit 4 Accepts bait But guess what happened to one of the guys who voted for him? Risk is dead and he was a townie. easy clean mafia tactics by toad here. Exhibit 5. this is the most oozing post for me. If someone came out and said that they know who the scums and dt is they would be imediatly cast into doubt with little evidence and the real scums would pounce on that. then he goes on about his "idea" of whos scum and only gets away withoutsaying anything about it by saying that hes not "bold". /vote Toadesstern and thats all I'm going to do for my first couple posts. made a bunch of mistakes but I'm sure I'll get into this just fine. Ok I'm back and lol we got a hero medic :p To answer those things above: 1) Yes it was day1 and I just did not think there was something that could get problematic at that point in time. I do realize that I should not have played it that easy the very first hours and should have explained everything better in the beginning. Also this is half an answer to your second one. Yeah I figured those guys really think my phrase (that one where I told people to talk no matter if blue, green or red) was odd so I had to react to it and from that point in time I changed it up and explained EVERYTHING I wrote. So yeah I changed it up because I thought my play on day1 had flaws in it. Not those 'weird' phrases you guys showed but those 2 answeres. One of them you just quoted and the other one being that paranoid answer. 2) I still think lynching a maybe-mafia is better than a no-lynch + what I said at 1). 3) not found :p 4) Bait accepted? I did NOT vote for him before he started pulling that emo. Once he did it I had to vote for him. And someone else mentioned I was late on voting for hyshes (I think bunneh or I misread something). I was the 2nd (!) to vote for hyshes. 5) Look it up, I posted that list just some posts earlier because I was asked to make a list by harb so I figured I don't have to quote myself just to state that I actually made that list. And yeah what you said is what I did. HE SAID he got a list and is pretty sure he knows who our dt and those 3 mafias is, although we don't even know if we got a dt. That's just weird and you just explained yourself why my reasoning was fine according to you, you just ended up saying it's not. Either because you're under stress right now and have to compensate for hacks poor play and had to get something done quick or because you want people to lynch me and can't find a real thing. | ||
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