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On September 19 2011 13:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
antagonistic/rude trying to get under peoples skin
almost purely defensive play focusing only on people who criticized or voted for you
everyone discounting the possibility you're scum
begging for ring day 1 and spamming
spam
im done go read my posts ive said enough about you im not gonna keep repeating myself
1. Nope, asking questions =/= being antagonizing. Never once did you cite this as a reason for voting me anyway.
2. Purely defensive play eh? Is that why I voted TranceStorm? Is that why I thought the prplhz wagon was bad?
Plus, aren't you the one who made a huge post about people "misconstruing" your intentions and posts? How can you accuse me of being "overly defensive" in that case?
And again, you never cited this as a reason for voting me (until now)
3. So if everyone discounted the possibility of me being scum...that makes me scum? Lol. How on Earth do you think this is a good reason for voting someone?
4. Begging for the ring.
Oh we got to it! This is actually the only reason you voted for me. Funny it appears last in this list of yours, no?
You know what's funny though? Asking for the ring was pretty much the sole reason you voted for Greymist too! Talk about a coincidence...your only focus the entire day was who asked for the ring, whether or not it seemed like a joke.
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Yo WBG man, talk to me. Are you really 3rd party, and was that claim for real? Why are you putting so much effort into scum hunting if your only goal is to find the ring?
I don't really understand your play so far. You know what's funny, except for the part where you claim 3rd party you are actually one of my strongest town reads atm.
Also I believe Cyrandor claimed some interesting tidbits about prplhz and no one seemed to give a shit. Chaoser wtf man? Why didn't you look more into cyrandor's claim if prplhz was your main suspicion day1? Do you really think 2 mafia would tie themselves to each other day1 this easy?
ON and GGQ need to post more. These guys have the annoying habbit of lurking as both alignments so I never feel safe lynching them when they go into hardcore lurker mode. Could you please commit a bit more time this game so I can burn you alive if you are scum?
Palmar, you too man. Just because you roll scum 20x doesn't mean you are going to fool me by statistics again =P
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On September 19 2011 13:25 sandroba wrote:
Yo WBG man, talk to me. Are you really 3rd party, and was that claim for real? Why are you putting so much effort into scum hunting if your only goal is to find the ring?
I don't really understand your play so far. You know what's funny, except for the part where you claim 3rd party you are actually one of my strongest town reads atm.
Also I believe Cyrandor claimed some interesting tidbits about prplhz and no one seemed to give a shit. Chaoser wtf man? Why didn't you look more into cyrandor's claim if prplhz was your main suspicion day1? Do you really think 2 mafia would tie themselves to each other day1 this easy?
ON and GGQ need to post more. These guys have the annoying habbit of lurking as both alignments so I never feel safe lynching them when they go into hardcore lurker mode. Could you please commit a bit more time this game so I can burn you alive if you are scum?
Palmar, you too man. Just because you roll scum 20x doesn't mean you are going to fool me by statistics again =P
I think you understand my play better than you think you do.
I want to know though, what do you think of Dr. Helvetica, Jackal, and Drazerk?
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I don't think jackal is mafia. I think docH may be mafia but I'm more curious about chaoser right now. I think drazerk is possibly golum if you are not, don't think he is mafia.
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What claims? I've been only able to read the thread from my iPhone since saturday morning so I might have missed some posts but I don't think it's that out of the way for two mafia to support each other during early game. I've done it previously before like in xxx i think where I said I thought my teammate might be townie being stupid instead of mafia. I'll be able to read the thread in full tomorrow.
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On September 19 2011 12:04 sandroba wrote:
Okay, I'm done with my first read through the thread. Syllo why did you vote errandor man? This goes against everything you said previously and is not on par with the way you think at all? Also why did you jump on jackal and GGQ instead of iGrok?
Because at the time of voting it looked like it was going to be either wbg/prplhz or erandorr, so I picked the one I thought had the best chance of flipping scum. I already explained why I "chose" (more like nearly RNGed because they all looked the same at the time) jackal; I've played with him more and he was also contributing more in some other active games.
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On September 19 2011 08:42 Ciryandor wrote:
Errandor you derp. I may die tonight...
what is this?
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Everyone on prplhz wagon simply ignored what ciryandor said, which is very sad. Both main wagons on day1 are most likely on townies so scum vote is most likely spread out. Chaoser/jc/mr.wiggles I certainly expected one of you guys to catch onto cyrandor's claim. You simply do not bandwagon that sort of claim day1, that is ridiculous. This rayn guy looks terrible aswell, do you have any previous games I can skim through?
@syllo Okay man, help me find scum in prplhz wagon then, I suspect the errandor wagon has 2 at most and prplhz's looks more concentrated.
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Just got finished with studio work. Dead tired. Sucks about Erandorr. But honestly if I came back in time I probably would have switched my vote to him. It's night. I'm going to sleep. See you guys day 2.
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Alright, it's night time now. Give Bugs the ring and get him out of here.
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LOL WHAT
I collapse in my bed with a few hours to go, and out of nowhere someone who hadn't even been considered previously was lynched.
Bad call on Errandor, I really didn't see that happening, and I guess I'm not the only one
On September 19 2011 05:29 Navillus wrote:
Okay why on earth do we have 2 people attempting to start new wagons with like 3 hours until lynch, we are not lynching supersoft or erandorr today and if you leave your votes there for the lynch you'll be my first targets come tomorrow.
I did find something I consider interesting amongst all the posts
On September 19 2011 10:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
@Wherebugsgo:
I don't think scum would be dumb enough to do that. If the point of the plan was to get the ring, do you really think they would have looked over that major detail? Based on the number of players, there should be maybe 5-6 mafia (maybe less, rough estimate), so it seems unlikely that none of them would catch it.
As well, it seems unlikely that if it was a mafia ploy they would have had Jackal deliver the plan. Even if one could give away the ring during the day, it would draw a lot of attention to the person proposing it, due to certain short-comings. It makes more sense to get one of the lesser experienced mafia members to propose it, because heat being drawn to them isn't as bad, and it can more easily be passed off as not thinking it through enough.
The rest of that quote isn't really relevant, but here is the list of people that voted on Errandor
On September 19 2011 09:03 jcarlsoniv wrote:
And the subsequent bandwagon happened VERY quickly. I'm more than willing to bet there are multiple scum on this list:
Palmar
Radfield
Syllogism
prplhz
kitaman27
OriginalName
Vain
TranceStorm
xtffc
If we filter the list with the people that posted a plan to change the holder of the ring it leaves TranceStorm.
I would have waited for day to point this out but I didn't want to risk it.
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Hey guys, sorry my activity level has been down, I've been pretty busy. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more this week. I haven't had a chance to read the case(s) on Erandorr in much depth but whenever town flips as a lynch D1 there will be at least one scum on their wagon. Granted, this time around he was lynched with a very small percentage of votes so it's possible that they stayed away from it. Either way look at the vote lists of people who didn't get lynched and you'll find scum. Especially on WBG (assuming he is town or third party and not mafia himself) because that is an easy justification for mafia vote D1. He was being pretty much useless and this gives them a great excuse to vote for someone. Check out Dr.H, iGrok, and Jackal on that list. All three players should know better.
Sorry I couldn't be around to do more than vote and leave again yesterday. I'll do my best to be more present in the future.
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On September 18 2011 09:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No, I'm voting for WBG because I have no strong scum read and his play is the most anti-town. If I had to guess his role it's a neutral serial killer and I'd rather day 1 lynch an SK than what will probably be a town. I also never said WBG isn't scum. It's day 1.
So far our scum cases boil down to "your plan was stupid" "you didn't post enough" and "idk you voted for me and you didn't explain it well."
If I get a strong scum read then I'll move my vote. My read on WBG is either scum or SK. Either way, he's a detriment to town and I'm pretty sure he is not a pro-town role. I feel more comfortable voting for a player that I'm about 75% sure is a non-town player than a player I'm 15% sure might be scum.
My vote for greymist was really just a placeholder to get him talking. That's pretty standard stuff.
That's it. I'm not concerned with defending myself, I'm doing what I feel is right. WBG has been posting a little bit more constructively and at the very least, if he is a bad townie, he's learning that you can't shit post and troll without getting heat. There are still 24 hours left but so far all of the "scum" cases I've seen have been incredibly weak and I don't know why people seem to think it's impossible WBG is scum in the first place. Because he's too reckless? I've seen worse.
On September 19 2011 05:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it's quite probable Errandor is scum and misunderstands my reasons for voting for WBG and is trying to parrot/hide behind my bandwagon. However, if I have to switch my vote I personally get a worse feeling from Supersoft and chaos13 did a pretty good job of pointing out that very strange inconsistency.
On September 19 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on WBG out of principle because I am sure he is either SK or Mafia. The fact that no one is even exploring the possibility that he is scum says volumes to me. If he were, in fact mafia, it's a fitting enough to say "nah hes obv just 3rd party he can't be scum if yoou vote for him youre scum becasue hes not scum" but we don't know what alignment anyone is only mafia know that :-)
I can't quite reconcile these statements with the fact you left your vote on WBG. Care to clarify? Did you just became more certain about WBG being scum/mafia somewhere along the way? Why? What do you think about the possibility of WBG being a third party who isn't a serial killer?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
antagonistic/rude trying to get under peoples skin
almost purely defensive play focusing only on people who criticized or voted for you
everyone discounting the possibility you're scum
begging for ring day 1 and spamming
spam
im done go read my posts ive said enough about you im not gonna keep repeating myself
The fact that he is antagonistic/rude actually makes me come to the other conclusion, considering his attitude as town in some of the past games. When he was just plain trolling to start the game, rather than getting under peoples skins is what initially caused the red flags.
On September 19 2011 18:32 Jackal58 wrote:
Alright, it's night time now. Give Bugs the ring and get him out of here.
Do you have a post restriction or something?
On September 19 2011 21:37 chaos13 wrote:
I haven't had a chance to read the case(s) on Erandorr in much depth but whenever town flips as a lynch D1 there will be at least one scum on their wagon. Granted, this time around he was lynched with a very small percentage of votes so it's possible that they stayed away from it. Either way look at the vote lists of people who didn't get lynched and you'll find scum. Especially on WBG (assuming he is town or third party and not mafia himself) because that is an easy justification for mafia vote D1. He was being pretty much useless and this gives them a great excuse to vote for someone. Check out Dr.H, iGrok, and Jackal on that list. All three players should know better.
Sorry I couldn't be around to do more than vote and leave again yesterday. I'll do my best to be more present in the future.
Oh god.
"There will be at least one scum on their wagon"
"Well, maybe not"
"Look at the vote lists of those who didn't get lynched"
How non-committal can you get? You're essentially saying there are either scum on the wagon or off the wagon.
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On September 19 2011 21:44 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 09:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No, I'm voting for WBG because I have no strong scum read and his play is the most anti-town. If I had to guess his role it's a neutral serial killer and I'd rather day 1 lynch an SK than what will probably be a town. I also never said WBG isn't scum. It's day 1.
So far our scum cases boil down to "your plan was stupid" "you didn't post enough" and "idk you voted for me and you didn't explain it well."
If I get a strong scum read then I'll move my vote. My read on WBG is either scum or SK. Either way, he's a detriment to town and I'm pretty sure he is not a pro-town role. I feel more comfortable voting for a player that I'm about 75% sure is a non-town player than a player I'm 15% sure might be scum.
My vote for greymist was really just a placeholder to get him talking. That's pretty standard stuff.
That's it. I'm not concerned with defending myself, I'm doing what I feel is right. WBG has been posting a little bit more constructively and at the very least, if he is a bad townie, he's learning that you can't shit post and troll without getting heat. There are still 24 hours left but so far all of the "scum" cases I've seen have been incredibly weak and I don't know why people seem to think it's impossible WBG is scum in the first place. Because he's too reckless? I've seen worse. Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it's quite probable Errandor is scum and misunderstands my reasons for voting for WBG and is trying to parrot/hide behind my bandwagon. However, if I have to switch my vote I personally get a worse feeling from Supersoft and chaos13 did a pretty good job of pointing out that very strange inconsistency. Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on WBG out of principle because I am sure he is either SK or Mafia. The fact that no one is even exploring the possibility that he is scum says volumes to me. If he were, in fact mafia, it's a fitting enough to say "nah hes obv just 3rd party he can't be scum if yoou vote for him youre scum becasue hes not scum" but we don't know what alignment anyone is only mafia know that :-) I can't quite reconcile these statements with the fact you left your vote on WBG. Care to clarify? Did you just became more certain about WBG being scum/mafia somewhere along the way? Why? What do you think about the possibility of WBG being a third party who isn't a serial killer?
Thank god someone else noticed this.
The whole point of me calling out Dr. H was to expose this contradiction. He said he had no scum reads, then said Erandor is probably scum and didn't vote him despite saying he would vote someone other than me once he actually had scum reads.
Somewhere in there he magically goes from me bein third party to being scum solely because no one else thinks I am scum.
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On September 19 2011 21:37 chaos13 wrote:
Hey guys, sorry my activity level has been down, I've been pretty busy. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more this week. I haven't had a chance to read the case(s) on Erandorr in much depth but whenever town flips as a lynch D1 there will be at least one scum on their wagon. Granted, this time around he was lynched with a very small percentage of votes so it's possible that they stayed away from it. Either way look at the vote lists of people who didn't get lynched and you'll find scum. Especially on WBG (assuming he is town or third party and not mafia himself) because that is an easy justification for mafia vote D1. He was being pretty much useless and this gives them a great excuse to vote for someone. Check out Dr.H, iGrok, and Jackal on that list. All three players should know better.
Sorry I couldn't be around to do more than vote and leave again yesterday. I'll do my best to be more present in the future.
It essentially boils down to Radcliff bringing him up and Errandor failing to defend anything, and about about 8 idiots people bandwagoning for whatever reason.
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Cyber_Cheese who do you think is scummy? Your activity has been very low and your only post that could be characterized as a contribution is a list post in which you don't really find anyone scummy, except sort of the person you are voting based on rather flimsy reasoning.
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On September 20 2011 01:54 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 21:44 syllogism wrote:On September 18 2011 09:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No, I'm voting for WBG because I have no strong scum read and his play is the most anti-town. If I had to guess his role it's a neutral serial killer and I'd rather day 1 lynch an SK than what will probably be a town. I also never said WBG isn't scum. It's day 1.
So far our scum cases boil down to "your plan was stupid" "you didn't post enough" and "idk you voted for me and you didn't explain it well."
If I get a strong scum read then I'll move my vote. My read on WBG is either scum or SK. Either way, he's a detriment to town and I'm pretty sure he is not a pro-town role. I feel more comfortable voting for a player that I'm about 75% sure is a non-town player than a player I'm 15% sure might be scum.
My vote for greymist was really just a placeholder to get him talking. That's pretty standard stuff.
That's it. I'm not concerned with defending myself, I'm doing what I feel is right. WBG has been posting a little bit more constructively and at the very least, if he is a bad townie, he's learning that you can't shit post and troll without getting heat. There are still 24 hours left but so far all of the "scum" cases I've seen have been incredibly weak and I don't know why people seem to think it's impossible WBG is scum in the first place. Because he's too reckless? I've seen worse. On September 19 2011 05:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it's quite probable Errandor is scum and misunderstands my reasons for voting for WBG and is trying to parrot/hide behind my bandwagon. However, if I have to switch my vote I personally get a worse feeling from Supersoft and chaos13 did a pretty good job of pointing out that very strange inconsistency. On September 19 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on WBG out of principle because I am sure he is either SK or Mafia. The fact that no one is even exploring the possibility that he is scum says volumes to me. If he were, in fact mafia, it's a fitting enough to say "nah hes obv just 3rd party he can't be scum if yoou vote for him youre scum becasue hes not scum" but we don't know what alignment anyone is only mafia know that :-) I can't quite reconcile these statements with the fact you left your vote on WBG. Care to clarify? Did you just became more certain about WBG being scum/mafia somewhere along the way? Why? What do you think about the possibility of WBG being a third party who isn't a serial killer? Thank god someone else noticed this. The whole point of me calling out Dr. H was to expose this contradiction. He said he had no scum reads, then said Erandor is probably scum and didn't vote him despite saying he would vote someone other than me once he actually had scum reads. Somewhere in there he magically goes from me bein third party to being scum solely because no one else thinks I am scum.
I find it strange behaviour for sure, but consider this:
Errandor is bandwagoned at the last minute.
Errandor flips blue.
WBG tries to cast suspicion on people who didn't last minute change their vote to Errandorr off him.
Also of note is that in WBG's argument he conveniently forgets that his play style changed from trolling to serious. WBG wised up somewhere in between the first and second post here.
That is why I'm not sold.
I think either Radfield is mafia trying to save WBG and/or prphlz, or more likely mafia found it a convenient person to bandwagon to save WBG and/or prp after Radfield's argument came up.
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I have asked Curu for a replacement but am yet to get a reply. I will try to contribute as much as possible until he does and will try to be as useful as possible if a replacement is not an option. I still have a lot to re-read, so for now I'll start with people discussed at the moment - Helvetica, Chaos13 and TranceStorm - even if there have been better cases on others earlier.
I'm starting with TranceStorm because I was already curious about him. One of the major mistakes I did in my first game of mafia was to avoid attacking people based on what they wrote about me, even if the post screams "mafia agenda".
On September 19 2011 00:39 TranceStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 00:25 xtfftc wrote:On September 17 2011 21:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 17 2011 19:23 xtfftc wrote:
Also, none of the currently discussed lynch targets are viable. They are all easy ones. I'd rather go for a random lynch out of the remaining players. So...you just want to pick someone random? Random lynches are dumb. Lynches need to have a basis. And while it's true that town often gets the first lynch wrong, we won't learn much of anything from lynching a random target. Most of the lynch targets we have at the moment are the typical loud-mouthed /sloppy townies that tend to get lynched on Day 1 while mafia keeps a low profile. More importantly, because mafia isn't put under any pressure whatsoever and therefore doesn't reveal any information that might be useful to us in the process. So no, I don't want to pick someone random. I said that I'd rather pick a random player out of the remaining 27 than one of these 3 because lynching them would give us absolutely nothing. I can't vote for Jackal for his ring idea, sorry. I will start reviewing the case against DrH and I didn't see anything new from WBG to change my initial poistion on him. And I would like to apologise for not being as active as I should have today. I have finally assembled my PC and will play properly from now on. And I hope that you will take into account that I mentioned that I'm moving to another country before roles were assigned. Nevertheless, in Day 2 we should pay specific attention to those who didn't post a lot on Day 1 but become more active during Night 1 to hit the 5 posts per cycle quota. This post rang so many alarm bells in my head. First off, its so incredibly neutral. In the first paragraph, you state a generic statement that doesn't mean very much. And your defense of your earlier quote still doesn't make any sense, 'rather pick a random player out of the remaining 27' is still a random pick. The next paragraph is killer, you articulate why you can't vote for certain people and justify your vote for WBG with little to no justification at all. It provides nothing of your analysis of them and nothing of your thoughts of your thread. It makes me think that you really don't want to reveal your thoughts on the thread. Finally, you apologize when there is literally 0 pressure at you at all. If what you say is true, that's fine, you would simply come back and post more on day 2 and the following days and people wouldn't be too suspicious of that. Why would you apologize for something which hasn't even been picked up on? I expect far more activity from you in the coming days as you say that you will do, but for the moment I FOS xtfftc. Given that i probably can't lead a lynch on you today, I will rather vote for a more fitting candidate today and make sure that I keep an eye on you.
What bothers me about this post is how big of a deal he makes out of eve3rything. "Incredibly neutral" for a player who is clearly not putting the time into the game. More of the same in the next paragraph: I said that I hadn't been able to play properly until now, yet what I posted was "killer" because I didn't provide proper analysis. And apparently I shouldn't apologise for not being active unless people are being suspicious of me... Mafia logic much? Only mafia players are happy to be left alone when lurking. Someone apologising for lurking is either a townie regretting playing like this or a mafia covering for their early play. Not apologising, however, is simply a mafia content to keep a low profile.
Any townie would simply say that there is no way to read such a massive lurker, so TranceStorm trying so hard to get something out of it doesn't make much sense. And the very last bit the worst of all:
I expect far more activity from you in the coming days as you say that you will do, but for the moment I FOS xtfftc. Given that i probably can't lead a lynch on you today, I will rather vote for a more fitting candidate today and make sure that I keep an eye on you.
So is it a FOS or does he want me dead? And if he wants to lynch the lurker, why not stand by his read and push for it? Although there were just about 8 hours left at the time, he was yet for anyone else and so not voting for the player he believes to be mafia is dodgy. And then he jumped on the Prplhz bus, which was the most popular at the time, with this:
On September 19 2011 04:12 TranceStorm wrote:What I dislike most about prplhz's vote is that he never actually justifies why he is voting for Jackal. Look at his vote post, he says: Show nested quote +also i'd like jack to do some scumhunting 'cause he's apparently also a veteran of sort. since this drh thing is going nowhere i'm gonna switch to jack
He follows up later with a defense of himself in which he says: "i'm saying i think that jack is scum and that's why i'm voting him but i'm very open to the possibility that he isn't". Very indecisive. Jackal's play has been extremely dodgy as well, but I think prplhz is the most probably scum. #Vote prplhz
He was able to write four paragraphs on basically nothing, yet he has nothing of value to say when it comes to actually voting for someone? Not good at all. And then, just as easily, he switched to Erandorr while blowing out of proportion Erandorr's ninja-edit as well. Yes, Erandorr fucked up, we all saw that. But yet again, TranceStorm uses this opportunity to jump on an easy target for something that shouldn't be discussed as much instead of actually contributing.
Helvetica and Chaos13 coming up next.
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On September 19 2011 21:44 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 09:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No, I'm voting for WBG because I have no strong scum read and his play is the most anti-town. If I had to guess his role it's a neutral serial killer and I'd rather day 1 lynch an SK than what will probably be a town. I also never said WBG isn't scum. It's day 1.
So far our scum cases boil down to "your plan was stupid" "you didn't post enough" and "idk you voted for me and you didn't explain it well."
If I get a strong scum read then I'll move my vote. My read on WBG is either scum or SK. Either way, he's a detriment to town and I'm pretty sure he is not a pro-town role. I feel more comfortable voting for a player that I'm about 75% sure is a non-town player than a player I'm 15% sure might be scum.
My vote for greymist was really just a placeholder to get him talking. That's pretty standard stuff.
That's it. I'm not concerned with defending myself, I'm doing what I feel is right. WBG has been posting a little bit more constructively and at the very least, if he is a bad townie, he's learning that you can't shit post and troll without getting heat. There are still 24 hours left but so far all of the "scum" cases I've seen have been incredibly weak and I don't know why people seem to think it's impossible WBG is scum in the first place. Because he's too reckless? I've seen worse. Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think it's quite probable Errandor is scum and misunderstands my reasons for voting for WBG and is trying to parrot/hide behind my bandwagon. However, if I have to switch my vote I personally get a worse feeling from Supersoft and chaos13 did a pretty good job of pointing out that very strange inconsistency. Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on WBG out of principle because I am sure he is either SK or Mafia. The fact that no one is even exploring the possibility that he is scum says volumes to me. If he were, in fact mafia, it's a fitting enough to say "nah hes obv just 3rd party he can't be scum if yoou vote for him youre scum becasue hes not scum" but we don't know what alignment anyone is only mafia know that :-) I can't quite reconcile these statements with the fact you left your vote on WBG. Care to clarify? Did you just became more certain about WBG being scum/mafia somewhere along the way? Why? What do you think about the possibility of WBG being a third party who isn't a serial killer?
Looking over Radfields case, it wasn't as strong as had really thought at first glance. That was a pretty bad kneejerk reaction. I think WBG is mafia or SK. WBG is playing pretty arrogantly. He thinks I can't possibly have another reason for voting for him other than he "asked for the ring" (i provided several others, whatever) and I think he's SK or Mafia. It's very possible he is non-sk third party or even town. Unfortunately I don't have DT powers, I can't check.
What reason do I have as mafia to tunnel a useless and obnoxious player like WBG when I can take the easy bandwagon on Errandor or Prplhz (who was accusing me anyway) ? Yeah, I know it's WIFOM but if I'm really about to get bandwagoned for making the "wrong vote" then I don't know what to say other than TL Towns really are getting worse.
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EPT
