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@Wherebugsgo:
I don't think scum would be dumb enough to do that. If the point of the plan was to get the ring, do you really think they would have looked over that major detail? Based on the number of players, there should be maybe 5-6 mafia (maybe less, rough estimate), so it seems unlikely that none of them would catch it.
As well, it seems unlikely that if it was a mafia ploy they would have had Jackal deliver the plan. Even if one could give away the ring during the day, it would draw a lot of attention to the person proposing it, due to certain short-comings. It makes more sense to get one of the lesser experienced mafia members to propose it, because heat being drawn to them isn't as bad, and it can more easily be passed off as not thinking it through enough.
Next, I'm not sure I get what you're saying, still. Are you saying that scum were voting for you, and then Jackal came up with a reason to get the ring to you? Or are you saying scum were voting you with the purpose of getting the ring? It makes a major difference.
Also, while drinking my chocolate milk, I remembered I wanted to point out prplhz making a case on Dr. H, but never really pursuing it, while Dr. H laid low for a while and tunneled on to WBG. Will have an effect later, when any of them start flipping. If prplhz flips red, it makes Dr. H more suspicious to me, because of the feigned pressure, and if Dr. H flips red, it makes WBG likely to be not mafia, and just a scapegoat for them to pretend to disagree on.
On September 19 2011 10:40 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:34 Radfield wrote:On September 19 2011 08:45 iGrok wrote:
Ok, lets review. Who of the following are the scummiest?
Palmar - Not doing much so far
Radfield - Has been active. Pulled wagons off GreyMist and WBG, onto Errandor. Suspicious.
Syllogism - Was active early on in Ring discussions.
prplhz - Leaving this until later
kitaman27 - No great analysis, but decent reasons for voting and has worked to pressure
OriginalName - After watching him play in Resurrection, he's playing the same way. Minimum contribution to avoid focus.
Vain - 1 liners except to defend prplhz
Erandorr - somehow appeared on his own vote list?
TranceStorm - I see a connection between TranceStorm and Radfield forming when I filter him. TS often references Radfield's arguements. TS also attacked prplhz early on You tell us iGrok. Who's the scummiest on that list? You seem to have decided not to answer your own question. By the way, I found someone to add to your list: iGrok - suspicious of Drazerk, oops not suspicious of Drazerk anymore. Wants to lynch WBG to see what his role does. Contributes absolutely nothing to the eradorr/prp lynch discussion. Makes a list of a seemingly random segment of playersWho's the scummiest person on your list now? I like how one of the biggest lynch targets of yesterday, Jackal, is conveniently missing from that list of his.
That's cause Jackal didn't vote for Erandorr, lol.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Shit, it's the vote list.... that makes so much more sense....
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On September 19 2011 10:50 Radfield wrote:
Shit, it's the vote list.... that makes so much more sense....
LOL that makes two of us who completely missed that
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Wiggles, despite the fact that I appreciate you pointing out my mistake, and that I chuckled at your chocolate milk comment, that big ol' wall of text contains almost nothing. You're talking about possible scum motivation(wifom) and making connections that are very flimsy. A hundred connections like that could be made at this point in the game.
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On September 19 2011 10:50 Radfield wrote:
Shit, it's the vote list.... that makes so much more sense....
... Yeah.
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On September 19 2011 10:55 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, despite the fact that I appreciate you pointing out my mistake, and that I chuckled at your chocolate milk comment, that big ol' wall of text contains almost nothing. You're talking about possible scum motivation(wifom) and making connections that are very flimsy. A hundred connections like that could be made at this point in the game.
Hmmm? I'm spending most of it asking WBG stuff.
From what I've read, he's saying that mafia were trying to bandwagon him to get the ring, and Jackal delivered the plan. (I asked him to clarify if this is wrong) From this, he extrapolates that Jackal is mafia, and the people voting for him are mafia.
However, there's a few problems with this.
-Mafia wouldn't be dumb enough to actually deliver the plan after it was said that the ring could only be passed at night. The four votes on WBG from DoctorHelvetica, Drazerk, iGrok, and Pyo came before that revelation, so mafia could have just called it off, not followed through with proposing a plan that was obviously wrong.
-If it was a mafia plan, they probably wouldn't have had Jackal deliver it. Why put one of your players who has a meta of not doing much until day 3 at the earliest into the spotlight and into danger on day 1? Much better to let one of the newer members propose it, so that they can get let off the hook more easily by playing the "noob card" if it isn't accepted.
It was Jackal acting alone, not a collective mafia plan, so I'm saying WBG can't use it to say that Jackal is mafia, and all the people voting him are mafia as well. It's possible, but Jackal proposing that plan isn't a good enough reason for thinking so. Not WIFOM, just thinking about what the logical play from mafia would be. (inb4 mafia don't always act logically, because I know that, but then that's WIFOM, I'm still on the first level)
As well, I'm drawing the connection, in case I get shot tonight and no one remembers it. It seems important to me for if prplhz flips red.
Good DT targets for tonight:
prplhz: Escaped the lynch, had two separate counter-wagons form against him. Feigned pressure against Dr. H.
syllogism: Tried to form a counter-wagon against the prplhz lynch with a very broad and unfocused accusation of many players, hoping one would catch.
Dr. H: Had weird pressure on him by prplhz, disappeared for a major chunk of the day, and didn't do too much besides argue about voting blocs and tunneling WBG.
Radfield: Successfully formed the counter-wagon on Errandor.
WBG: Not sure what he is, might be a mafia PGO or equivalent, find a way to let us know if you visit him.
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On September 19 2011 11:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:55 Radfield wrote:
Wiggles, despite the fact that I appreciate you pointing out my mistake, and that I chuckled at your chocolate milk comment, that big ol' wall of text contains almost nothing. You're talking about possible scum motivation(wifom) and making connections that are very flimsy. A hundred connections like that could be made at this point in the game.
From what I've read, he's saying that mafia were trying to bandwagon him to get the ring, and Jackal delivered the plan. (I asked him to clarify if this is wrong) From this, he extrapolates that Jackal is mafia, and the people voting for him are mafia.
And I told you that assessment is wrong.
Mafia were already voting for me. Jackal voted me, and part of his vote post included giving me the ring.
Thus, I concluded that they could force a mislynch and at the same time get the ring distributed among the voters, a majority of whom were probably mafia.
It wasn't premeditated, I just think Jackal scum slipped.
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the scumslip being that no one can give me the ring, if someone gave me the ring and I left the game there's no reason to vote me, and if someone gave me the ring and I was still in the game then lynching me would throw a monkey wrench into the mix by distributing the ring amongst the voters.
Pro-mafia plan ftw.
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Ok, so then they're independent thoughts, that's what I was trying to figure out. Then it follows the second case, of Jackal acting on his own, and him not being connected to the others.
So, of the people voting for you, which were the mafia, and what are your reasons for believing so?
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I think if Jackal was mafia he'd be more careful about the rules. I really doubt prplhz is mafia, wishy washy townie who jumped to some really bad conclusions about what I was saying. He misunderstood me.
and yes, I'm dialing down my activity level in this game. I spam too much. I second guess myself too much. I think the fact that I didn't change my vote around 100 times and say every little thing on my mind is better play but I guess it comes off as a lot different from how I normally play. I read Vers guide like twice before this game.
Wiggles has a good DT checklist although Palmar/jeejee definitely warrant a check. Both have been well under expected activity levels and I think it was JeeJee who made the rather cryptic posts about shadows. Odd behavior.
Medics should go for the big veteran townie targets as usual. Myself, Radfield, JeeJee, Mr.Wiggles I would venture are the biggest targets. But really, you should use your own discretion.
Medic - pick the experienced player you think is most likely town
DT - pick the player you think is most likely scum.
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Okay, I'm done with my first read through the thread. Syllo why did you vote errandor man? This goes against everything you said previously and is not on par with the way you think at all? Also why did you jump on jackal and GGQ instead of iGrok?
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I'm going to bed now. Sweet dreams town, and my I haunt your nightmares, scum. :3
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On September 19 2011 05:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
To clarify all I'm saying is we should never artificially split bandwagons. If someone is obviously scum and everyone is content with that there is no reason to split the bandwagon. That helps mafia. Usually singular bandwagons form naturally because a player is obviously anti-town and that's a good thing. Tunneling can be a good thing. I would never advocate singling exactly one player out for the entirety of voting/discussion every day and I never did. Huge misunderstanding. Of course there should be multiple lynch candidates. All I'm saying LITERALLY ALL IM SAYING is that when the entire town jumps onto one target this isn't necessarily a bad thing. And a pure exact 50/50 bandwagon is a good thing for mafia because they can split votes and ALWAYS ensure the innocent player is the one who gets lynched.
Also I never said we should wait for 100% scum. I would rather lynch SK if there are literally no convincing scum reads. However like I said (never used the term 100%) I would definitely vote for someone I thought was mafia over someone I though was SK but on Day 1, as it is, there is no one I have a strong read for (and I have a lot o freading to catch up on and my mind will probably change). Also I think there is still a pretty strong chance WBG is mafia because his earlier behavior was considerably scummy and from the environment we have he would have known he could get away with posting like that. Lots of scum have done worse. I have absolutely no reason to believe WBG can't be scum. Please stop misrepresenting me and twisting my thoughts and words
If this is not clear now, I'll try to make it a little more clear when I have computer access.
I still think Dr. Helvetica is scum.
He says he has no scum reads and if he found a better scum read than me he'd be willing to vote him. He insinuates this throughout the post as if the assumption is that I'm an SK.
He later contradicts himself by keeping his vote on me despite saying other people look like scum to him (Erandor, supersoft). He considers me scum despite the majority of his posts about me acting as if I'm third party. So if I'm not scum and Erandor/super were more scummy then why did Dr. H keep his vote on me?
Lastly, he claims that he never advocated exclusively singling out one person. Yet, that's almost exactly what he did with me. It's clear all of the other players he mentioned were never serious lynch targets to him because he spent no time actually making his own thoughts about them. For the most part, he was regurgitating other players' existing thoughts (e.g. chaos13's thoughts about super) and he never backed up any of those various accusations.
For the most part, Dr. H chose the easy lynch yesterday. He probably stayed away from the
Erandor bandwagon despite saying he found him scummy in order to gain some towncred (IMO)
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Erandor and supersoft had marginally good cases against them but played less scummily than you. You're either SK or scum and I never implied you couldn't be scum so honestly i don't even see you rpoint
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On September 19 2011 12:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Erandor and supersoft had marginally good cases against them but played less scummily than you. You're either SK or scum and I never implied you couldn't be scum so honestly i don't even see you rpoint
What's the case against me?
I asked for the ring?
lol.
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And while it's true that you never outwardly denied the possibility of scum, the way you (and most everyone else, as a matter of fact) posted it seemed as if the assumption was that I was SK.
Going on that it didn't matter what you said. The manner in which you said things about me implied you had assumed I was a serial killer.
By your own logic, it would then make no sense to vote me day 1 when both super and Erandor appeared scummy to you.
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I feel stronger about you being SK than scum but Erandor/Super being scum was so flimsy/unsure to me that I would always policy vote for third party over someone I have that weak of a feeling on. Radfields analysis was somewhat ok but it was really nothing more than a gut read.
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You keep dodging the question.
What was the case on me?
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antagonistic/rude trying to get under peoples skin
almost purely defensive play focusing only on people who criticized or voted for you
everyone discounting the possibility you're scum
begging for ring day 1 and spamming
spam
im done go read my posts ive said enough about you im not gonna keep repeating myself
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EPT
