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TL Mafia XLIV - Page 85

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Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 26 2011 15:38 GMT
#1681
That might be the best course of action, we'll need to make sure enough people are here to lynch BB though. One of them has to die today.
wat
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
August 26 2011 15:43 GMT
#1682
On August 27 2011 00:30 Foolishness wrote:
We can always just kill BrownBear and settle this Mig thing tomorrow. My case against BrownBear still stands as he hasn't even posted yet today, and he's only got 11 hours before day ends.

I do believe that Mig is lying, but part of me feels that we should just take the safest option here. If he's indeed the tracker, it will force the mafia to roleblock him (or they risk him finding a mafia so once he does die we will know who to lynch). Of course we will make him check whoever we want (Pyo). I also do not believe chaos13 to be mafia.

And Mig you never commented about my lurker list.


I agree with you to take the safest option, but i'd prefer rayzorflash for that job.
nard
Profile Joined July 2009
Germany124 Posts
August 26 2011 15:44 GMT
#1683
voting brownbear, i should be back online 1-2 hours before the deadline if you need my vote for a majority on Mig.
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
August 26 2011 15:51 GMT
#1684
Nard, what do you think of Mig's claim?

Curu, check my voting history again, please.

And I'm up for switching to BrownBear as well.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 26 2011 15:52 GMT
#1685
On August 27 2011 00:51 xtfftc wrote:
Nard, what do you think of Mig's claim?

Curu, check my voting history again, please.

And I'm up for switching to BrownBear as well.


What about your voting history contradicts my point?
wat
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
August 26 2011 16:09 GMT
#1686
I did not vote for Mig and only wrote like one paragraph about him, yet you keep going on and on about how I was pushing hardto lynch him on Day 2.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 26 2011 16:14 GMT
#1687
My point is you voted for him on day 2 so clearly you were willing to lynch him, nothing had happened to change anyone's mind on Mig in between that and day 3 but you suddenly wanted Kurumi when everyone else was voting for Mig. Every day before that you voted with the masses, but today you went after Kurumi when the masses wanted Mig.

What's changed in the situation is that people have started linking you two together as opposing day 2 wagons, which makes your initial push against Kurumi instead of Mig look scummy.
wat
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
August 26 2011 16:16 GMT
#1688
My point is you voted for him on day 2


This is the last time I'm saying this - I did not vote for Mig on Day 2.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 26 2011 16:29 GMT
#1689
Right, but you had this:

This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor.


Actually this makes you look worse if Mig flips red, since you commented on your next leading wagon but never actually voted. Two scum wagons on day 2 is a very real possibility. Thanks for pointing that out for me, I missed it the first time around.

Why is this thread so dead...
wat
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
August 26 2011 16:34 GMT
#1690
On August 27 2011 01:29 Curu wrote:
Right, but you had this:

Show nested quote +
This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor.


Actually this makes you look worse if Mig flips red, since you commented on your next leading wagon but never actually voted. Two scum wagons on day 2 is a very real possibility. Thanks for pointing that out for me, I missed it the first time around.

Why is this thread so dead...


dude, that's what I was talking about the whole time!

the thread is dead because we actually stopped being idiots and now lynch someone with an actual reason and not only because he made one silly post (hi sev/hiro-voters)

and Palmar is dead.

I like the atmosphere in the thread - the huge posts and the constructive discussions going on etc. I feel like we're on the right track.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
August 26 2011 16:44 GMT
#1691
by the way, I am not going to lynch BB instead of mig. sorry, I think mig is the safer bet there.
Actually I thought about it and I have to say I am lynching noone instead of mig today.
We discussed this lynch pretty decently. And if we try to find new target now just because he claimed to be tracker, it will end in a mess.

You know, what would you do if you're accused like mig and GM offers you a fakerole...
Of course he's a tracker. This is the most valuable role we got except for vigilantes... I don't believe him and his claim... it doesn't change anything, this specific role casts even more suspicion over him :-[
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
August 26 2011 16:45 GMT
#1692
Bumatlarge replaces BrownBear
Moderator
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 26 2011 16:46 GMT
#1693
What bullshit, mig is obviously lying. He claims tracker, says he's got breadcrumbs but if you look, all of them are from the PREVIOUS DAY. Basically he's mafia, got scared cause he was close to lynch until some of this mafia friends fucked with the lynch yesterday so he thought up a fake claim plan over the night to save his ass.Lynch him please! We've gone three days without lynching him and letting him get away, don't let him get away again!
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
August 26 2011 16:52 GMT
#1694
On August 27 2011 01:29 Curu wrote:
Right, but you had this:

Show nested quote +
This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor.


Actually this makes you look worse if Mig flips red, since you commented on your next leading wagon but never actually voted. Two scum wagons on day 2 is a very real possibility. Thanks for pointing that out for me, I missed it the first time around.

Why is this thread so dead...


So I was mafia because I voted Mig and now I'm mafia because I didn't vote Mig. And although you are basing your accusation on Foolishness' theory about the connection between the wagon for me and the reduced pressure on Mig, now you think I'm mafia even if Mig flips red. Right.
Curu
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2817 Posts
August 26 2011 17:02 GMT
#1695
On August 27 2011 01:52 xtfftc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 01:29 Curu wrote:
Right, but you had this:

This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor.


Actually this makes you look worse if Mig flips red, since you commented on your next leading wagon but never actually voted. Two scum wagons on day 2 is a very real possibility. Thanks for pointing that out for me, I missed it the first time around.

Why is this thread so dead...


So I was mafia because I voted Mig and now I'm mafia because I didn't vote Mig. And although you are basing your accusation on Foolishness' theory about the connection between the wagon for me and the reduced pressure on Mig, now you think I'm mafia even if Mig flips red. Right.


I think you're Mafia because you've been scummy as hell. At first I thought about it from the you/Mig being opposite alignments angle and found that it wasn't implausible for you to be Mafia if Mig were to flip Town. Either way he flips you should still be a topic for discussion because there's reasonable explanations going both ways now.

I'm not saying it's absolute but you should absolutely not be let off the hook no matter what Mig flips at this point.

Also hi scumatlarge.
wat
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
August 26 2011 17:07 GMT
#1696
On August 27 2011 01:46 chaoser wrote:
What bullshit, mig is obviously lying. He claims tracker, says he's got breadcrumbs but if you look, all of them are from the PREVIOUS DAY. Basically he's mafia, got scared cause he was close to lynch until some of this mafia friends fucked with the lynch yesterday so he thought up a fake claim plan over the night to save his ass.Lynch him please! We've gone three days without lynching him and letting him get away, don't let him get away again!

I hope you are right.

##Vote Mig
Bartundar
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
August 26 2011 17:43 GMT
#1697
On August 27 2011 01:44 supersoft wrote:
by the way, I am not going to lynch BB instead of mig. sorry, I think mig is the safer bet there.
Actually I thought about it and I have to say I am lynching noone instead of mig today.
We discussed this lynch pretty decently. And if we try to find new target now just because he claimed to be tracker, it will end in a mess.


You know, what would you do if you're accused like mig and GM offers you a fakerole...
Of course he's a tracker. This is the most valuable role we got except for vigilantes... I don't believe him and his claim... it doesn't change anything, this specific role casts even more suspicion over him :-[


I agree strongly with this.

We kill Mig.


On August 27 2011 01:45 GMarshal wrote:
Bumatlarge replaces BrownBear


Wtf? Did he request replacement?

This replacement can really mess with our leads on BB. I say we lay off bumatlarge for a day or two; lynch Mig and then follow our other scum leads.

However, I do think that we should put an extra layer on scrutiny on him because of how we all perceived BB before the replacement.


On August 27 2011 00:30 Foolishness wrote:
We can always just kill BrownBear and settle this Mig thing tomorrow. My case against BrownBear still stands as he hasn't even posted yet today, and he's only got 11 hours before day ends.

I do believe that Mig is lying, but part of me feels that we should just take the safest option here. If he's indeed the tracker, it will force the mafia to roleblock him (or they risk him finding a mafia so once he does die we will know who to lynch). Of course we will make him check whoever we want (Pyo). I also do not believe chaos13 to be mafia.

And Mig you never commented about my lurker list.


I disagree with your assessment of who we should lynch because of the Brownbear replacement. I know it came after your post, but even if BB wasn't replaced I would still prefer an Mig lynch.

The safest option to me is lynching the fuck out of scumig.

On August 26 2011 22:43 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 19:32 xtfftc wrote:
This is a response to Curu's ealier post, spoilered because discussing Mig's claim is priority at the moment.

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh, wow. Curu and Supersoft appear simultaneously 36 hours before the deadline and announce that I have refused to vote for Mig, although there are 15 others who haven't at the time. Wow.

Okay, here goes. Curu, I addressed my early policy posts already: I wasn't advocating lurking; I was advocating against lynching lurkers. Please read my responses to the previous cases build against me before re-posting the same accusations. If you have anything to say about me responses, great - but completely ignoring the responces reveals that you didn't build a proper case.

Then in the VERY SAME POST, he tells Foolishness to consider that Palmar is scum. When called out by Foolishness, he is very adamant in pointing out he did not accuse Foolishness of being Mafia and drops the topic completely rather than trying to argue his point (which was a giant contradiction anyways).


I didn't say Palmar was mafia; I said that Foolishness shouldn't rule out the possibility simply because of meta arguments - so there was no other point to argue for. This was also the time when I was trying to motivate Palmar to get his act straight instead of disorganising town. There is no contradiction in my actions.

I really don’t understand what is going on in here at all.


Okay, I will explain it to you then. I wasn't arguing that Palmar was mafia; I wanted to motivate Palmar to be more constructive because I thought - and still do - that he had a good lead against BrownBear. A townie voting for him is can serve as a wake-up call. And soon after Palmar posted a well-written and rather convincing case.
Similarly, DropBear was mentioned because his mayor campaign was rather stupid and I was hoping to incite him to get his act together. My concern was obviously justified as his DT claim on Day 2 was even worse than what he did on Day 1.
Out of the three, BrownBear was the only one I was actually suspicious of.

When I asked him to tell me right then and there what he felt about Sevyrn, he said Mafia. The thing is, if he was already so sure in his mind that Sevyrn was Mafia, why was his vote not there?

No, when you asked me, I said I'd like to spend time analysing and wanted to wait for Sevyrn to defend himself before taking a stance on his alignment. When you pushed me to give you an immediate answer, I said that I think him to be mafia. How convenient of you to forget my initial reply.

Will gladly answer questions but won’t offer them unprompted by himself.

I had to spend a lot of time defending myself and couldn't provide enough analysis - but I started doing it as soon as things around me quieted down a bit. I posted a few things I think were overlooked by others and I also said that I am willing to answer all questions. Obviously, there is a limit to how much I can read and post.

He was very ready and willing to put his vote into Mig when he has never played with Mig before.

This is what I said about Mig:

Sure.

I'm still just as suspicious of Rayzor as I saw two days ago. His defense ("would a mafia say this?") did not convince me because he was in a position when he had to say something like this. However, just like to days ago, I think that he is someone who should be pressured to talk more until he makes another mistake or we are convinced he is town. Even if he is mafia, he is not particularly dangerous at the moment because he can not influence the town at the moment.

This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor.


I would like you to point me to the post where I was "very ready and willing to put" my vote into Mig - or to declare that you made a mistake in your analysis.

As a side-note, I still maintain the same position on Rayzor. He has gone into lurking/afk mode, which doesn't help his cause.

Quick to claim credit in case Rayzor flipped Mafia.

Context, please. I said this after being asked by Supersoft (who was supposedly providing deep analysis of my posts) about my opinion on Rayzor - although I had already posted about Rayzor earlier.

He calls Hiro a 100% confirmed Townie (I think under the assumption that Hiro’s self vote would show he is a Townie, but then why not try to convince people not to lynch Hiro?),

Okay, really? Hiro says that he is willing to vote for himself even though he is town. Therefore, Hiro knows that he is 100% town - hence my question. I didn't say that I thought he was 100% town, I said that if he is town, he knows it and shouldn't vote for himself no matter what.


If both were to be scum though, I don't understand xtfftc avoiding Mig's wagon like the plague today, a red Mig flip would relieve a lot of pressure on him.

A lot of people are lurking much more than me, yet if I don't jump on the wagon immediately, I am apparently avoiding it. You could have at least given me the time to join it or avoid it.

Not even a single mention of lynching Mig, instead actually chainsawing Mig’s attackers.

Kurumi was after Supersoft; you are just making up stuff again. Who did I "chainsaw" apart from him?

The only thing I can't see is both of them being Town since votes probably would've consolidated on one of them in that case, there was no need for scum to try to oppose either one.


I don't see the logic behind this. It's not like there were 20 votes for us, there were less than 10 combined.


On August 26 2011 07:22 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 07:14 Curu wrote:
And I don't agree with that assumption supersoft, a Town Mig is not a hot kill target because:

1) He's suspected
2) If Mig were to die and flip Town xtfftc would very likely be turbolynched

There are many reasonable explanations for why Mig, if he is Town, was untouched by Mafia. I don't think that should be used as any indication.


hmm you're right. However at least I think it's strange that absolutely no scum voted him. (assuming that I am correct with my judgements over these people)

As for xtfftc who refuses to vote for mig and prefers to go for kurumi; I think it might be possible that he underestimates the case against him. Therefor he tries to establish another target with a huge post to peel of votes from mig.

At the point of time when he accused kurumi, I already posted that kurumi might be scum because of the possibility of a acum vigilante. So he wasn't completely alone with that.

How dare I post an analysis on a suspicious player 44 hours before the deadline... And apparently I have refused to vote for Mig. Extremely suspicious indeed. Not at all like voting for Rayzor and changing your vote for Mig an hour and four posts later with this as reasoning:

Since noone is up for a Rayzorflashlynch, I vote for mig. Who knows if we find a majority for him tomorrow.


"Oh, wow. Curu and Supersoft appear simultaneously 36 hours before the deadline and announce that I have refused to vote for Mig, although there are 15 others who haven't at the time. Wow."

There are exactly 7 people that refused to vote for rayzorflahs at day1 and also didn't vote either you or mig at day2
You are one of them. I have been suspicious of most of them earlier and with different reasons.
Kurumi is not one of them. You accused him, that strengthens my concerns.
Until I am proven wrong by mig, rayzor or you flipping green, I continue to push this. Your vote on mig at this point of time doesn't change anything.

You know I have something good against you there. That's the reason, why you're talking to me again. Thank you.


It's hard for me to tell whether xtfftc is appearing scummy or if he's just defending himself.

To me, I think I have to disagree with you here, supersoft. It's very well possible that xt is talking to you simply to defend himself. He's been attacked by quite a few of us, and the way he has defended most of the accusations suggests to me that he's town.

The reason I'm unsure about him, though, is precisely because so many of us have accused him. It's hard to quantify, but I think we should keep xt in mind but not lynch him until we have no better scum target. Since we have Mig and Rayzor still alive, let's give xt a chance to contribute. We can lynch Mig, and then our focus will reshift.

Also, I'm not sure what kind of connection Mig's alignment will have with xt's, if any. I felt like they might both be mafia because of the way the voting worked yesterday; after hiro made a mistake it's certainly possible that the mafia saw an opportunity to capitalize, if both Mig and xt are scum. The vote switch to hiro would then not appear scummy because hiro's mistakes made everyone suspect him.

So, to reiterate, if we were in the optimal situation of lynching two mafia yesterday before the hiro happenstance, then Mig's red alignment probably suggests xt is red as well. We need to figure out whether we were in that situation, and I think we can figure that out by looking at the vote patterns.

On August 27 2011 02:02 Curu wrote:
Also hi scumatlarge.


I loled.


On August 27 2011 00:43 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 00:30 Foolishness wrote:
We can always just kill BrownBear and settle this Mig thing tomorrow. My case against BrownBear still stands as he hasn't even posted yet today, and he's only got 11 hours before day ends.

I do believe that Mig is lying, but part of me feels that we should just take the safest option here. If he's indeed the tracker, it will force the mafia to roleblock him (or they risk him finding a mafia so once he does die we will know who to lynch). Of course we will make him check whoever we want (Pyo). I also do not believe chaos13 to be mafia.

And Mig you never commented about my lurker list.


I agree with you to take the safest option, but i'd prefer rayzorflash for that job.


Kill Mig first, then we can deal with Rayzor.

GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
August 26 2011 17:47 GMT
#1698
On August 27 2011 02:43 wherebugsgo wrote:


Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 01:45 GMarshal wrote:
Bumatlarge replaces BrownBear


Wtf? Did he request replacement?


Apparently Irene is really screwing with his travel plans and he would be MIA for the next 72+ hours, so he requested replacement. Bumatlarge took me up on it. BrownBear apologizes profusely for the inconvenience
Moderator
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
August 26 2011 17:55 GMT
#1699
On August 27 2011 02:47 GMarshal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 02:43 wherebugsgo wrote:


On August 27 2011 01:45 GMarshal wrote:
Bumatlarge replaces BrownBear


Wtf? Did he request replacement?


Apparently Irene is really screwing with his travel plans and he would be MIA for the next 72+ hours, so he requested replacement. Bumatlarge took me up on it. BrownBear apologizes profusely for the inconvenience


Ah, thanks.

Irene, you bitch.
chaoser
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States5541 Posts
August 26 2011 17:57 GMT
#1700
It's hitting me too so I might be unable to post on Sunday is power/internet goes down.
Haven't you heard? I'm not an ex-progamer. I'm not a poker player. I'm not an admin of the site. I'm mother fucking Rekrul.
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