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TL Mafia L - Page 60

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Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1181
If it's any consolation, I've taken you off the lynch list, because putting you on it was related to what I would do in your shoes, and failing to understand my own role and vigging on day 1 isn't something I nor anyone I would hold to that standard would do.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1182
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1183
On January 15 2012 05:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Who said they were lynching CC if they were mayor again?

Oh yeah.

##Vote: Bumatlarge


Bum wants sandroba to be his sheriff and said that he's trusting palmar to be town. I don't know if I want that either.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:17 GMT
#1184
wait what now? I don't get it. WHAT? so you claim a role which exits for both teams. and you shoot CC on the first day based on him contradicting himself and a few maybe softtells? and you think that's a smart play?

then you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
January 14 2012 20:19 GMT
#1185
On January 15 2012 05:17 Jayjay54 wrote:
wait what now? I don't get it. WHAT? so you claim a role which exits for both teams. and you shoot CC on the first day based on him contradicting himself and a few maybe softtells? and you think that's a smart play?

then you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back


and he outed another player while he was at it....the only smart move I think he made -_-
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 14 2012 20:20 GMT
#1186
On January 15 2012 05:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
If it's any consolation, I've taken you off the lynch list, because putting you on it was related to what I would do in your shoes, and failing to understand my own role and vigging on day 1 isn't something I nor anyone I would hold to that standard would do.

That, and I know as a scum buddy of yours, there is no way in hell I would have approved that action.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 14 2012 20:20 GMT
#1187
On January 15 2012 05:17 Jayjay54 wrote:
wait what now? I don't get it. WHAT? so you claim a role which exits for both teams. and you shoot CC on the first day based on him contradicting himself and a few maybe softtells? and you think that's a smart play?

then you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back


he thought he's a dayvig. Turns out he's not. He thought he is able to shoot at day and because he's willing to vote someone who's going to lynch CC. I just don't think bum's an alternative right now.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
January 14 2012 20:21 GMT
#1188
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
January 14 2012 20:21 GMT
#1189
I'm going to clarify some things because people are incapable of reading the thread (though I don't really blame you cause it's still day 1 and there's 59 pages). I was going to write a bigger post but now that Mattchew is dead there's not really a point.

Mattchew wanted to publicly claim mason because he thought it was a good idea. He wanted to do this when BC was talking about the mass mason claim (check time stamps if you don't believe me). He said he wanted to run for mayor after claiming, and I told him he should only claim if he plans on running for mayor (as just straight up claiming at this point is stupid in my opinion). He said he would run for mayor and wanted me to endorse him first as a way of showing that he mason'd me. Thus I made my post, and he followed with his almost immediately.

I did not out him in the thread. The PM logs all confirm this.

Also BC, stop acting stupid. You claimed to get yourself into office for the sake of the town. Mattchew followed in your lead (GUESS WHAT HES CONFIRMED NOW HUR DUR) because he thought your plan was good. For you to go around dismissing him was only hurting your case. I'm still going to vote for you though because I believe that putting a townie in office is more important than anything (I am not voting you because I think you will help lead the town or think you will do a good job scum hunting, I can do all of that myself).

I'm also a bit pissed off at the amount of times I'm seeing "WIFOM" in peoples' posts when making an argument. Seriously guys the player list in this game is great, if people are still making one liner posts with "everything you say is WIFOM" then we should just treat this like a newbie game. If I was an acronym vigi I'd be shooting all of you tonight. The amount of lazy arguments is just honestly amazing.

With that said, I would like to expand on one of my earlier suspicions: Macpo. At the time the list of people that said I was suspicious of was based off a quick filter look, but now that I have had some time to reread everything, this is someone everyone should take a closer look at. The main reasons I say this are all fairly easy to spot: he references himself as a newbie (more than once I think), he tries to "befriend" everyone, and he fails to take a definite stance on anything happening in the thread.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
January 14 2012 20:22 GMT
#1190
@Cyr you need to read the thread a little better. You say here that Protac hasn't switched who he is going to lynch :

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 03:12 Ciryandor wrote:
Whew, finally caught up after 25+ pages. Seriously. I just got home from being away all day today and had a long day at work yesterday, and people think I'm a good lynch candidate, especially for like half the mayor candidates? That's just fine and dandy, but there are other players who fit the same criterion.

Some reads on players of interest:
I honestly think GGQ has just as bad a posting history as mine, and that he has escaped scrutiny by creating an FoS on me just because I was asking why I should be believing the early candidates like Cyber_Cheese instead of Mr. Wiggles during that time.

I also can't blame Protactinium for thinking I'm bad as well with my responses, but I wouldn't vote for him just because he thinks BC is scum, and he hasn't buttressed that argument since. As far as I've read, I think BC has townie interests at heart and is in the usual situation with leading mayor candidates, having a hard time justifying what he would do with the position beyond the Day 1 lynch power, but a point against him as well is that he has not delivered his mason partner, which he had decided to reveal in one of his posts.

Also, risk.nuke being suddenly defensive after some criticism of him making a half hearted push for mayor is IMO very newbie townie play, or a scum being baited to attract others' attention to him. This should be noted as I think risk is noob town who does not know how to defend his positions properly.

Just a question, where is Kurumi? At least sandroba has posted even if he thinks I'm scummy for asking if he's running, and Palmar has said he doesn't really care now about the vote; which is uncharacteristically sour of him. I read Palmar as trolling town more than scum because of that, as he would have probably given a token "I support someone because they're worth trusting" post (as that could influence newbies/lurkers) who see people commenting at him being a veteran voting that way at the very least if he were scum.

Finally, I have to note that Bill's post that it is likely we have a scum candidate among the front-runners leads me to think we should actually do a vote-swing to a random strong candidate, and that the votes for that person should come from people who have already voted, as IMO it is more likely for scum to have delayed voting to have more influence over the result in a close race and not waste votes in a throw-away push for their candidate if a runaway win were to happen. Right now I'm torn between Proact and Sandroba in voting, because at least they're concrete in promising ONE NAME to lynch instead of being wishy-washy in getting a list of targets up, and that I think they have plans for town after Day 1 that don't need to be publicized yet.


However he wanted to kill you at first. So I find it interesting that you're still ok with putting him as mayor.

@BC You say again that Mason is an amazingly strong role in the hands of mafia because they have 10 ppl to bounce their ideas off. I just want to say if as the person who got Masoned with the ScumMason you don't realize that someones posts are very different then how they act in the thread, and they seem like they are coming from more then one person then you've made some mistakes. Quit throwing out the theory that just because they have ppl to talk to about it, that scum mason is better. Don't even know why your still throwing this scare tactic out there.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2012 03:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
How does the fact that I pulled out of the elections make me more suspicious?

And did you completely ignore my plea for help regarding my mason situation? Or do you not care because now I'm suspicious?


You as a former candidate go out of your way to encourage people to withdraw votes based on a lie. You can say you misread my post which potentially believable due to its length I find unlikely. If people were actively waiting for a piece of information then my large posts theoretically should be read carefully for said information. You are not like jay who has been on my nuts all game.

Had you chosen to encourage people to not vote for me as I claimed mason and had solid reasons behind it then I would see you as more townlike, as it would also be discrediting another player with the same claim. By opting to instead cherry pick one candidate over the other I see an inconsistancy. I say this as you made mention before in thread that you had reservations of electing me before as my alignment with my role was not provable (minus a lynching obviously), however this issue would be near identical to another mason and had you kept with that line of thinking as two masons were in the running I would have understood.

Singling me out however, via incorrect information, is why you are on my list.


sup?

first of all, I want to say sorry for saying the unvote thing. Regardless of what my read is of you, people should've unvoted you, if you didn't name your mason buddy. Which you did and therefore my statement was wront. I missed it, sorry! But it was well hidden. Normally such an anouncement is bold and on top of a post. But I guess, you have your reasons.

Then, I was not on your nuts all game long. In the beginning, I actually was your biggest stan and saying your campaign is the best. Enter your roleclaim. As I stated like a billion times the motives behind it is still unclear to me.

If you can describe me the upsides of your roleclaim, I will not think of you as scum again. Even more so, If you convince me your really town favoured, I will vote you again, since your campaign was the best and you're a good player.

But since you kind of just nourished the discussion, but never thematized the timing of the roleclaim, you're scummy to me.

The Hydra's case on you is pretty good IMO and is in line of what I believe.

I try to be constructive, not just choose a player and piss him off.


Using the phrase "has been on my nuts all game" is more or less accurate. You are really the only person who has been against me for a decent period of time. You also have said your reasons why. Do i agree with them? No. I do understand them however. If you compare what you were doing to what VE did you would understand why he is on a radar now and you are currently not.

However, as for the upsides of my claim. Look at the specific post Incog (the hydra) quoted of mine from my town analysis thread that I believe i linked in a previous post. (if i didnt i can dig it up, its also somewhere on page 4-6 i believe of the mafia forum).

I stress that most people don't use pm's correctly. In a situation where only a few specific players have access to that domain, it gives the mafia an advantage. They will have 10 people able to work on manipulating a player. You can say "i am going to look for manipulation so it won't happen" but again. Ask what I did to VE. It was subtle and vile. All I did was plant an idea that I knew he would think on and run with, and he did it in a way I knew he would. Manipulation is not obvious and a good player will know exactly how to do it without being caught. Mafia will have 10 people making sure its done right. I know that I can freely romp in pm land, but no smart mafia is going to talk to me seriously if i mason them. Why? Because i could do to them what they would do to another player. As such I had to think. How likely is it that only top players got the mason role?

Unlikely as fw rng's roles. We are also a gimped mason as we lose contact with who we target after each cycle and can never use it on them again. This is inherently not helpful to town. Why? Because a townie benefits from bouncing ideas off one another in pms. However you need the time to build up a "trust" of sorts with the person to actually get a serious discussion on reads. People will naturally always suspect you at first when mason'd or at least they should. That is not alot of time to get by the distrust and have a discussion of who x and y think is scum. Then you have to go over all those pms and see if there is a hidden agenda there. PM's in the way we traditionally use them to "bounce ideas" or find scum are used over long periods of time with people mulling over information. As your ability to get reads is so short term they are unreliable and far more useful to manipulate or mislead which takes far less effort, and is doable in a much faster span of time.

As such I opted to want to discuss the role. However, I also knew that based on my decision to heavily push this point, I would be forced to claim my role as there would be no way I would be able to hide that fact for the game while pushing heavy on its discussion. Even if I could, it could lead masons to out and out claim and would look extremely bad if I didn't while essentially outing people in thread.

As such I did right from the get go.




@BC Hello there. I've been following you quite closely. At first you suggest that you claiming Mason puts you at 50scum/50town. Since you posted that you've talked more about how this makes you slightly more town. Do you still think your only 50/50 btw? And as for your claim that I'm contradicting myself here :

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:46 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
On January 15 2012 00:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm visiting my sis so I'm out for a couple of hours. However I still have a couple of people I have no idea about. I'm just leaving you with a list of 5 or so names and if you see your name on that list I'd like to know who you want to vote for mayor and if you had to decide the first lynch who it would be. I'm only mentioning people I think might read this, so thx if you do:
+ Show Spoiler +
5. risk.nuke
9. Kenpachi (you won't answer this right?)
11. EchelonTee
14. Liquid`Sheth
20. Ciryandor
49. Scamp

turns out I got 6 names instead of only 5 but yeah that's it for now.



I'm voting for Protactinium for Mayor at the moment. He has what I believe to have been the best case for Mayor.

If I had to decide the first lynch, I'd probably make it a town affair and get everyone's opinions on who they wanted to lynch and then decide based on what that information gave me.


so the belief you have for deciding a lynch is via discussion and town consensus but you are voting for a player who has made 0 posts aside from saying he would kill ciryandor if elected or kill me if elected. so You are actually in favour of having someone lynched with 0 discussion as you are strictly following the most inactive of all the candidates who sole stance currently is lynching me.

contradiction




So to just look at the facts on your post against me, its that once you got threatened you started to use poor logic and counter attack. Just because the person I want to be elected isn't following what I'd do if I was elected isn't a contradiction. I'm not running for mayor this game at all. You are also trying to discredit Prot by saying he has made 0 posts aside from saying who he'd lynch if he was mayor. Hes also posted a lot of analysis on you. So there wasn't 0 discussion. I'm even happier with Prot as my mayoral target because of this.

@Prot please post a little more on what you've seen and think at the moment. Just be transparent with where your leaning now please!
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 14 2012 20:24 GMT
#1191
On January 15 2012 05:16 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:14 Toadesstern wrote:
so VE you thought you're a dayvig and in reality you're not? Wtf is going on with this town people. Mass claims, mass fails, blues being modkilled, blue outing they vig-power and bc managed to get town discussing a whole day about pussy-masons.
The only thing that could go worse would be Palmar stepping into this thread, threatening X to do Y or else he will dayvig him and X ends up dayvigging Z.
Srsly guys wtf is wrong with you tonight

Hi there!

If you'd like to post in the thread, feel free to add content rather than remarking that things are bad. Watch what I do, okay?

VE, Are you going to shoot CC tonight?

See? Content!



awesome. Let the guy who just claimed vig now claim who he is about to shoot so that mafia does not even have to wifom about if he's going to shoot or not but only has to wifom about VE really is "smart" enough to pull a drazerk on us or not.

I mean you just asked a vig (if that's right) who he is about to shoot. I'll repeat it: You are asking a vig who he is about to shoot

wtf is going on.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 14 2012 20:25 GMT
#1192
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 14 2012 20:28 GMT
#1193
On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.


do you think L is being stupid or scum?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 14 2012 20:31 GMT
#1194
I'm done posting - don't worry.

I'm not going to say if/who I'm shooting. I'm seriously done until D2 if I live that long...and even then I'm posting more conservatively.

/facepalm

I will be voting however...I said I was voting for Bum, but NO ONE else is voting for him so fuck that. I'll pick a candidate closer to deadline, alone.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
January 14 2012 20:31 GMT
#1195
Nothing about this 'don't tell them what you will do', wifom shit matters. If CC is scum they will roleblock VE, if CC is town mafia will still rb VE.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
January 14 2012 20:32 GMT
#1196
On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.


The exception to this, is please if you do shoot, post who you shot RIGHT at the deadline.
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 14 2012 20:32 GMT
#1197
On January 15 2012 05:31 risk.nuke wrote:
Nothing about this 'don't tell them what you will do', wifom shit matters. If CC is scum they will roleblock VE, if CC is town mafia will still rb VE.

Protip: If you elect me, you don't have to worry about it.
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 14 2012 20:33 GMT
#1198
On January 15 2012 05:31 risk.nuke wrote:
Nothing about this 'don't tell them what you will do', wifom shit matters. If CC is scum they will roleblock VE, if CC is town mafia will still rb VE.


risk.nuke is excluding the very real possibility that I'm scum...is this a scumslip?

Now I'm done.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
BloodyC0bbler
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Canada7876 Posts
January 14 2012 20:34 GMT
#1199
On January 15 2012 05:22 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Cyr you need to read the thread a little better. You say here that Protac hasn't switched who he is going to lynch :

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 15 2012 03:12 Ciryandor wrote:
Whew, finally caught up after 25+ pages. Seriously. I just got home from being away all day today and had a long day at work yesterday, and people think I'm a good lynch candidate, especially for like half the mayor candidates? That's just fine and dandy, but there are other players who fit the same criterion.

Some reads on players of interest:
I honestly think GGQ has just as bad a posting history as mine, and that he has escaped scrutiny by creating an FoS on me just because I was asking why I should be believing the early candidates like Cyber_Cheese instead of Mr. Wiggles during that time.

I also can't blame Protactinium for thinking I'm bad as well with my responses, but I wouldn't vote for him just because he thinks BC is scum, and he hasn't buttressed that argument since. As far as I've read, I think BC has townie interests at heart and is in the usual situation with leading mayor candidates, having a hard time justifying what he would do with the position beyond the Day 1 lynch power, but a point against him as well is that he has not delivered his mason partner, which he had decided to reveal in one of his posts.

Also, risk.nuke being suddenly defensive after some criticism of him making a half hearted push for mayor is IMO very newbie townie play, or a scum being baited to attract others' attention to him. This should be noted as I think risk is noob town who does not know how to defend his positions properly.

Just a question, where is Kurumi? At least sandroba has posted even if he thinks I'm scummy for asking if he's running, and Palmar has said he doesn't really care now about the vote; which is uncharacteristically sour of him. I read Palmar as trolling town more than scum because of that, as he would have probably given a token "I support someone because they're worth trusting" post (as that could influence newbies/lurkers) who see people commenting at him being a veteran voting that way at the very least if he were scum.

Finally, I have to note that Bill's post that it is likely we have a scum candidate among the front-runners leads me to think we should actually do a vote-swing to a random strong candidate, and that the votes for that person should come from people who have already voted, as IMO it is more likely for scum to have delayed voting to have more influence over the result in a close race and not waste votes in a throw-away push for their candidate if a runaway win were to happen. Right now I'm torn between Proact and Sandroba in voting, because at least they're concrete in promising ONE NAME to lynch instead of being wishy-washy in getting a list of targets up, and that I think they have plans for town after Day 1 that don't need to be publicized yet.


However he wanted to kill you at first. So I find it interesting that you're still ok with putting him as mayor.

@BC You say again that Mason is an amazingly strong role in the hands of mafia because they have 10 ppl to bounce their ideas off. I just want to say if as the person who got Masoned with the ScumMason you don't realize that someones posts are very different then how they act in the thread, and they seem like they are coming from more then one person then you've made some mistakes. Quit throwing out the theory that just because they have ppl to talk to about it, that scum mason is better. Don't even know why your still throwing this scare tactic out there.

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2012 03:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 03:29 Jayjay54 wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On January 15 2012 03:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
How does the fact that I pulled out of the elections make me more suspicious?

And did you completely ignore my plea for help regarding my mason situation? Or do you not care because now I'm suspicious?


You as a former candidate go out of your way to encourage people to withdraw votes based on a lie. You can say you misread my post which potentially believable due to its length I find unlikely. If people were actively waiting for a piece of information then my large posts theoretically should be read carefully for said information. You are not like jay who has been on my nuts all game.

Had you chosen to encourage people to not vote for me as I claimed mason and had solid reasons behind it then I would see you as more townlike, as it would also be discrediting another player with the same claim. By opting to instead cherry pick one candidate over the other I see an inconsistancy. I say this as you made mention before in thread that you had reservations of electing me before as my alignment with my role was not provable (minus a lynching obviously), however this issue would be near identical to another mason and had you kept with that line of thinking as two masons were in the running I would have understood.

Singling me out however, via incorrect information, is why you are on my list.


sup?

first of all, I want to say sorry for saying the unvote thing. Regardless of what my read is of you, people should've unvoted you, if you didn't name your mason buddy. Which you did and therefore my statement was wront. I missed it, sorry! But it was well hidden. Normally such an anouncement is bold and on top of a post. But I guess, you have your reasons.

Then, I was not on your nuts all game long. In the beginning, I actually was your biggest stan and saying your campaign is the best. Enter your roleclaim. As I stated like a billion times the motives behind it is still unclear to me.

If you can describe me the upsides of your roleclaim, I will not think of you as scum again. Even more so, If you convince me your really town favoured, I will vote you again, since your campaign was the best and you're a good player.

But since you kind of just nourished the discussion, but never thematized the timing of the roleclaim, you're scummy to me.

The Hydra's case on you is pretty good IMO and is in line of what I believe.

I try to be constructive, not just choose a player and piss him off.


Using the phrase "has been on my nuts all game" is more or less accurate. You are really the only person who has been against me for a decent period of time. You also have said your reasons why. Do i agree with them? No. I do understand them however. If you compare what you were doing to what VE did you would understand why he is on a radar now and you are currently not.

However, as for the upsides of my claim. Look at the specific post Incog (the hydra) quoted of mine from my town analysis thread that I believe i linked in a previous post. (if i didnt i can dig it up, its also somewhere on page 4-6 i believe of the mafia forum).

I stress that most people don't use pm's correctly. In a situation where only a few specific players have access to that domain, it gives the mafia an advantage. They will have 10 people able to work on manipulating a player. You can say "i am going to look for manipulation so it won't happen" but again. Ask what I did to VE. It was subtle and vile. All I did was plant an idea that I knew he would think on and run with, and he did it in a way I knew he would. Manipulation is not obvious and a good player will know exactly how to do it without being caught. Mafia will have 10 people making sure its done right. I know that I can freely romp in pm land, but no smart mafia is going to talk to me seriously if i mason them. Why? Because i could do to them what they would do to another player. As such I had to think. How likely is it that only top players got the mason role?

Unlikely as fw rng's roles. We are also a gimped mason as we lose contact with who we target after each cycle and can never use it on them again. This is inherently not helpful to town. Why? Because a townie benefits from bouncing ideas off one another in pms. However you need the time to build up a "trust" of sorts with the person to actually get a serious discussion on reads. People will naturally always suspect you at first when mason'd or at least they should. That is not alot of time to get by the distrust and have a discussion of who x and y think is scum. Then you have to go over all those pms and see if there is a hidden agenda there. PM's in the way we traditionally use them to "bounce ideas" or find scum are used over long periods of time with people mulling over information. As your ability to get reads is so short term they are unreliable and far more useful to manipulate or mislead which takes far less effort, and is doable in a much faster span of time.

As such I opted to want to discuss the role. However, I also knew that based on my decision to heavily push this point, I would be forced to claim my role as there would be no way I would be able to hide that fact for the game while pushing heavy on its discussion. Even if I could, it could lead masons to out and out claim and would look extremely bad if I didn't while essentially outing people in thread.

As such I did right from the get go.




@BC Hello there. I've been following you quite closely. At first you suggest that you claiming Mason puts you at 50scum/50town. Since you posted that you've talked more about how this makes you slightly more town. Do you still think your only 50/50 btw? And as for your claim that I'm contradicting myself here :

+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2012 04:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 04:46 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
On January 15 2012 00:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm visiting my sis so I'm out for a couple of hours. However I still have a couple of people I have no idea about. I'm just leaving you with a list of 5 or so names and if you see your name on that list I'd like to know who you want to vote for mayor and if you had to decide the first lynch who it would be. I'm only mentioning people I think might read this, so thx if you do:
+ Show Spoiler +
5. risk.nuke
9. Kenpachi (you won't answer this right?)
11. EchelonTee
14. Liquid`Sheth
20. Ciryandor
49. Scamp

turns out I got 6 names instead of only 5 but yeah that's it for now.



I'm voting for Protactinium for Mayor at the moment. He has what I believe to have been the best case for Mayor.

If I had to decide the first lynch, I'd probably make it a town affair and get everyone's opinions on who they wanted to lynch and then decide based on what that information gave me.


so the belief you have for deciding a lynch is via discussion and town consensus but you are voting for a player who has made 0 posts aside from saying he would kill ciryandor if elected or kill me if elected. so You are actually in favour of having someone lynched with 0 discussion as you are strictly following the most inactive of all the candidates who sole stance currently is lynching me.

contradiction




So to just look at the facts on your post against me, its that once you got threatened you started to use poor logic and counter attack. Just because the person I want to be elected isn't following what I'd do if I was elected isn't a contradiction. I'm not running for mayor this game at all. You are also trying to discredit Prot by saying he has made 0 posts aside from saying who he'd lynch if he was mayor. Hes also posted a lot of analysis on you. So there wasn't 0 discussion. I'm even happier with Prot as my mayoral target because of this.

@Prot please post a little more on what you've seen and think at the moment. Just be transparent with where your leaning now please!


and his post on me was primarily based on using words taken from out of game via a thread I made where he misrepresented my own words (he ignored the part about how town doesn't use pms properly) and using a statement of that "he as red doesnt like pm's only townie bc pms" I already have proven how he misrepresented and mafia choose their masons, thus I would never be a mason as red and my meta of not pming holds true.

as for my case against listening to INCOG not prot. Mystlord did not post against me incog did, is purely that I know incog. He couldn't find a selection of posts within this thread to prove I am mafia and instead took posts I i have made over the last year to prove his theory within a game. He failed to account for how mafia actually work in this setup and I know he is a stickler for reading OP;s and he ignored wording in a post he used to damn me.

He also as town would make reference to my town aligned play to be slightly impartial as getting a solid read on me this early would be near impossible for him if he can't use my actual posts in this thread to damn me.

As for contradiction? If your style of play is democratic discussion you would opt to support someone with similar beliefs, not someone who is going to just gun someone down and only appear in thread when they want to.

As for how I talked, would I personally as a third party view myself morelikely to be town than mafia? yes, however I am not you. Base fact is i am 50/50 and my actions in my belief should make me appear more townlike, if you disagree then I can say whatever thats your call however I will know you are wrong.

as for pms. Do you have any idea how I sound like im pms? Do you know what incog soundslike? etc....

This is there advantage. Properly crafted, subtle pms are destructive and can be done easily and simply when people try to do so. Even if you are looking for manipulation you can be screwed. I have outlined why I believe mafia have an advantage based on how it favours them based on setup and based on history of TL. People like Ace hate pm's for a reason.
#3 Member of the Chill Fanclub / Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought honorably. And Rhaeger died. --Ser Jorah Mormont TL MAFIA FORUM http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 go go !
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
January 14 2012 20:35 GMT
#1200
On January 15 2012 05:28 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote:
On January 15 2012 05:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm done for now. I've embarrassed myself enough for one day.

/facepalm

No, no.

Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight?


don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that.


do you think L is being stupid or scum?


I don't know yet and yeah I'm considering that myself. The more important question is why VE is lying, which I believe to be the case.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
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