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On July 06 2011 09:18 kitaman27 wrote:?
Palmar, what exactly were you trying to accomplish with your fake nuke? Seems like you need to follow your own advice.
Nothing really, wouldn't have launched it if I had known that it could potentially take a life away from someone. It also confirms that I have no nukes, which seeing as I claimed it anyway, it's always good to prove that you're not lying.
Just because I wanted to fire missiles, and I actually can (or thought I could) without any repercussions for town.
There was a notable success in it though, I'm really suspicious of Kurumi based on his reactions to it. This really does not look like town Kurumi.
I need to sleep, but he's one to keep an eye on.
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On July 06 2011 09:23 Eiii wrote:Oh, and it's been said before but it bears repeating: no nukes day 1. We're NOT going to go down that path 
Thanks for popping in and providing good content that hasn't been discussed before. This makes you look really pro-town in my eyes.
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So, I guess it's time to create a post to shoot down Sandroba's accusations.
First off I can't recall saying your plan is terrible. That notion was reserved for GMarshal's plan which involved a fuckton of nuking. I said your plan was less bad.
You seem to be basing your analysis on meta against me, so you should know I am always against controlling blues as town, and always in favor of vigilantes shooting early and often. I believe that is the best way for town to win the game. I argued against people who had ideas on how to control DT checks and Vigilante shots in RTM, and the entire fiasco that happened in the pre-game is basically me defending the notion that people need to be able to think on your own.
Also, I don't know why you keep doing this, you keep flat out lying to make your arguments look more convincing? The bad thing is that since I took a controversial stance people are probably going to glance over it and nod, instead of noting it.
You say I don't want leadership? That's absolutely incorrect, I never said it. I firmly believe that strong leadership in town is always the way to go. You correctly identified parts of my play in RTM which involved taking lead in town, well my entire argument is based on the fact that I was wrong some of the time. That's where independent thinking helped us in that game.
If you want to deprive us of individual thinking, then you better be sure that the town council is right all the time. To put it in RTM terms, since that seems to keep popping up, I'm afraid the kills on DropBear and VE would not have gone through if they had to deal with a voting process first. Now, Syllogism did point out a good point, and it's really his posting that made me change my mind on my own plan.
Another staple of my argument was belief in the player-base. I still stand by the notion that this pool of players involve less trolls than the other WaW game. Difference between us is I'm approaching this from the innocent until proven guilty point, while you just assume that everyone is incompetent until proven otherwise.
To summarize, your case against me is that I don't agree with your plan. Well know what? I still don't. But slowly I came to realize that my alternative was broken too. If someone comes up with a way that involves both independent thinking and the opportunity to defend, then I'm all ears.
Thanks for telling us the mafia has one KP Sandroba, that'll come in handy.
You want to nuke every day. And of course you're fine with leading bad lynches. Talk about a difference in meta-game, you sat back, pointed fingers, analysed and attacked in RTM, you're definitely playing the same type of Sandroba role this time around. In fact, depending on your flip in CC, I'd say you're far removed from your town meta.
I'm not taking leadership the way I did in RTM, I simply don't have the time to commit to it like that anymore, I think quite a few people here know I started a new job on Monday.
I'll never go down quietly as town though, because we could be lynching scum. That's a promise for this game and every game I play in.
By the way, don't know if it's your plan, or the fact that I was simply correct, but look... no random nuking on day one! Maybe... maybe.... people can be sort-of trusted?
That's my case for defense. Not agreeing with you is not a scumtell. I'd probably rather be looking at the people who sheeped behind your plan without a second look.
I'll post the reasoning and explanation for my lynch vote later today.
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Mataza's nuke won't land btw, the nuke phase is over, or that's how I interpreted the rules.
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(But so much for a faith in the playerbase)
I don't know if that was a joke, but I'm keeping my vote on Mataza, if he actually is trying to launch a proper nuke, then he should get lynched ASAP.
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On July 06 2011 16:18 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 15:47 Cthsazsa wrote:
Anyone find it weird how easy a bandwagon is forming on Sandroba?
Palmar hasn't been acting protown, but I don't understand why the hell everyone was freaking out when Palmar launched that dud-nuke. He stated as soon as the game began that he has no nukes.
I haven't found his behavior to be scummy, but he's certainly not acting protown. Like someone before me stated, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Conspirator.
I also think he is a good lynch, but I'm not going to place my vote just yet. I need to go back and read up on the other candidates.
Overall I'm pretty damn glad that no nukes have been launched yet. Hopefully shit doesn't hit the fan until at least Day 2 Oh the irony.
Right, that's most definitely him trying nuke, although I think that it won't land, based on the rules.
Kurumi can wait until tomorrow, Mataza will nuke immediately as he has the chance.
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On July 06 2011 16:49 Mig wrote:
Are you sure the nuke isn't going to land palmar?
Can any hosts clarify for us?
I'm not, that's why I said "I think".
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On July 06 2011 17:11 sandroba wrote:
@Palmar I quoted the post where you called the plan bad. Nukes are not vigillante shots, for many reasons that I've stated before, yet you failed to acknowledge. I'm not preventing any blue roles from acting. Yes I want us to use controlled nuking to our advantage. 1 per day is not going to win the game for the conspirator. Period. You say no random nuking day 1 but you fucking broke your own rule and shorttened the day by 24hrs.
yah, I said "less bad", not "terrible"
And I still believe so, I think the plan has flaws, but at the moment it's all we got.
I did throw out a missile, I didn't know it could do damage.
Also, one nuke per day isn't going to win the conspirator the game, but one, plus however many retaliation nukes there are, plus random idiot nukes...
I'm starting to doubt your motives sandroba.
I said that we should not nuke day one, but you're fine with it, even when you know there is a timer ticking.
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My vote was already on mataza afaik Sandroba
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No matter which philosophy you believe, Mataza broke them both.
He nuked without voting consent, breaking Sandroba's policies.
He nuked without first pushing with an analysis, breaking my policies.
He should definitely be the one to hang tonight.
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On July 06 2011 17:47 syllogism wrote:
I'm pretty sure Mataza is town. This is the weakness of the plan; dumb townies.
I still think he needs to be hanged, if we don't do it we might see scum that are not under suspicion at current do the same, and then just hide behind their good reputation.
That's why it's a policy, we need to enforce it.
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On July 06 2011 17:54 syllogism wrote:
I'm not going to lynch someone I think is town, especially if the nuke didn't actually get launched
So, first you call me out for not wanting to commit to a plan that I see flawed, but then as soon as the time comes to act on it, you pull out yourself?
What's the point of the entire argument and creating policies if we're not going to follow them?
We settled on a policy, I grudgingly did so and now people want me lynched for not instantly praising the policy, that might actually work in the conspirator's favor. Yes, I don't want to use a vote-nuke tomorrow either. We can do it later in the game, but Sandroba's eagerness to use nukes rubs me the wrong way.
But we settled on it, if we don't lynch Mataza we've basically declared the policy worthless. The brilliant part of this is that you might even know Mataza is town, and thus when this is over, you reluctantly lynch him, but gain fuckton of town credit for "trying to stop a lynch on an innocent".
I'm not going to buy this.
We're lynching Mataza, and if he flips town, I'm not giving you any town credit for trying to stop it. As far as I'm concerned you're scum. I find your willingness to break policies very anti-town, it's actually worse than arguing against them, because you're basically tearing them apart at your own wish.
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On July 06 2011 18:26 GMarshal wrote:
Mataza nuked. Mataza dies.
Alignment is irrelevant, this is a policy lynch, in fact, if the nuke phase isn't over I request permission to counternuke so that our lynch can actually generate information.
I see no reason to counter-nuke him.
Actually, this hardly makes any sense. Sure, lynching town is somewhat bad, but it must be done, I actually think there is a chance he's scum, so I'd be fine either way.
But raising the radiation level for no reason, landing extra nukes on day one, only to take out someone who we're not even sure is scum...
Nope, as far as I'm concerned we should not counter-nuke him. Remember my policies, the ones I pushed and have put me under suspicion?
One of the things I said was "We nuke scum".
Unless we somehow have a really strong case against Mataza out of thin air, I'm not okay with nuking him.
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Of course it's making you more suspicious when I call you out on your bullshit.
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On July 06 2011 19:14 syllogism wrote:
So with the options being lynching a scummy player (Palmar) and policy lynching a likely townie (ask yourself, is mafia ever going to be doing that on day 1 after we we had agreed to policy lynch anyone for it), why are so many of you going for the latter
Ask yourself, is mafia ever going to shout foul and argue to the point I've done day 1? The mafia is definitely laughing their asses off because you mistake disagreement for scumtells.
Or, quite likely, you're scum and you know we have to lynch Mataza, and this is your way of trying to gain town credit.
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On July 06 2011 19:18 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 19:14 syllogism wrote:
So with the options being lynching a scummy player (Palmar) and policy lynching a likely townie (ask yourself, is mafia ever going to be doing that on day 1 after we we had agreed to policy lynch anyone for it), why are so many of you going for the latter Policy is policy for a reason. if we write off every random nuke as "oh, scum would NEVER do that" the then mafia is going to nuke to blend in. We are shutting down that option, now.
This.
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On July 06 2011 19:23 syllogism wrote:
Palmar also nuked, but is that okay because it turned out to be a dud? What's the motivation for announcing you've no nukes as a townie and even demonstrating it
1. I wanted to fire ze missiles at GMarshal
2. I misunderstood sandroba and the rules, which lead to me claiming that I had no nukes.
3. I already announced that my missile was a dud, well before I launched it
4. I wanted to fire ze missiles at GMarshal
5. Since I had claimed anyway, I figured why not prove it. In addition, I'm really wary of Sandroba's plan of nuking daily, with who knows how many retaliatory and random nukes, so a shorter day where we just lynch isn't all bad.
6. I really fucking wanted to fire ze missiles at GMarshal.
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On July 06 2011 20:39 syllogism wrote:
Anyone wanting to lynch a townie is scum. The ones voting to lynch Mataza better believe there's at least a decent chance of him flipping red
What needs to be looked at is you.
I don't see any reason to believe Mataza is scum, but neither do I see why you think he's so obviously town. Firing that missile is a clearly anti-town move, but hey it's fine to ignore that when you already know he's town, right?
Seriously, am I the only one who takes notice? This is scum play 101, get town credit by opposing a perfectly sensible lynch train because you have information that we don't.
And aside from that, not lynching Mataza is dumb anyway, what the hell do you think happens tomorrow? or the other day? You demonstrate that the policies only apply if there is actually some sort of town agreement that the player in question is scummy, we get scum randomly nuking because they can get away with it.
You can try to get me lynched tomorrow if you feel like it, but you're tearing this town apart by not following policies. If this ends in nuclear war, then you're responsible.
It's such a clear contradiction, you say I'm anti-town cause I don't agree with policies, but in my book disagreement is far less scummy than outright breaking them.
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On July 06 2011 23:32 syllogism wrote:
So chaos13 who do you think has been scummy so far because there's a distinct lack of any finger pointing by you so far, which is quite unlike your usual play as far as I can tell
Just to point it out, that's his normal town play day 1.
He asks questions and acts really indecisive, I actually shot him for it in PTP, cause I thought he was scum.
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EPT
