EPT
Real Time Mafia - Page 35
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:41 Varpulis wrote: did you not read the piece about regular vig's not shooting? Compulsive vig's have to shoot. I think that Drazerk is a perfect person to take that shot. There is no night phase. Go read the setup, please. I still think that 206 would be a better target ( read my earlier analysis ), Depends on how many compulsive Vigis we have though if you still want to shoot me. | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:51 sinani206 wrote: Of course you think I'm a better target because you don't want to die. lol If I did not care about dying why would I martyr in every game I join? | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:53 Drazerk wrote: If I cared about dying why would I martyr in every game I join? Edited because I fail at English | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
You're using the martyr thing to defend yourself again. Do you not understand that dying is detrimental to your team? | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:56 sinani206 wrote: You're using the martyr thing to defend yourself again. Do you not understand that dying is detrimental to your team? A death can reveal a lot of information ... | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
Not in your case. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
I would like to throw this conversation out there that He is Still not contributing but rather using OMGUS in One liners ... | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On June 30 2011 06:00 Drazerk wrote: I would like to throw this conversation out there that He is Still not contributing but rather using OMGUS in One liners ... I'm not OMGUSing you. If you haven't noticed, my vote is still on VisceraEyes. I might OMGUS you if you keep posting bullshit, though. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Reasoning If your not going to vote for him I understand as VE is still acting suspicious | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On June 30 2011 06:00 Drazerk wrote: I would like to throw this conversation out there that He is Still not contributing but rather using OMGUS in One liners ... Also, you're "throwing it out there" on purpose to make people vote for me instead of you. That's a really scummy defense. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
GMarshal's Address First and foremost, I will only be addressing the current 3 lynch targets in my assessments, the three targets as I see them are VE, Drazek, and sinani206. Furthermore I'd like to apologize for vanishing for the last few hours. Real life can be a huge bitch sometimes. Let me also address the mafia shootings. LSB I already talked about, as I was around at the time. The Awesome All makes perfect sense as a kill, as his aggressiveness has both revealed him as an almost guaranteed target, and his accusations of me make his death ideal to frame me. Nautilus makes no sense to me as a *mafia* kill, I believe it may be a stray vigilante shot. Either way speculating about mafia kills is just WIFOM, and best ignored. This post will establish what I think of each candidate, by looking at what they have posted VisceraEyes On June 28 2011 13:59 VisceraEyes wrote: I see both sides of making lists. The discussion it generates is a definite plus for town, if it's focused the right way. YM, you referenced the Zodiac List from XLII...what you didn't take into account was that after he posted the Zodiac List, BC didn't guide the discussion after it...making it bad for town. He used the fact that no one uses the list properly to his advantage. Had he been town, he likely would have guided discussion properly, and it likely would have been more of a help for town. There are a lot of likelies in that statement, and I'm well aware of it, tyvm. That's just my opinion. Conversely, when abused, the Zodiac Lists DO tend to clutter up the thread. This post sticks out to me. Look at it, it says a lot, right? It talks about how lists can be excessively useful, and about how they can clutter the thread. What he fails to do is take a stance on these lists. Does he think we should be discussing them? If so then where is his and why isn't he talking about specific lists? If he doesn't then why dosn't he say that? Where is all this "This is all just my opinion" thing coming from? Where is his stance? This lack of commitment is a clear sign of someone scared of being forced to argue either side, so he takes a neutral "I can see both sides" stance. Then he argues about who belongs on the vet list with me, specifically he thinks Palmar doesn't belong there. But its not a strong opinion, he dosen't lobby for me to change the list or argue about it very strongly, he just kind of lets it go. I have the feeling his heart wasn't really in the argument, which is interesting, because it feels like he brought it up so he could say "see I thought something about the lists!" On June 28 2011 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote: :O I go to do research to answer GM's question and I come back to this?!?! Real Time is going to be INSANITY. Vaccuous and fluffy. I think 201 is leading there with the 8-10 (exaggeration, but just barely) posts concerning his name. Yes, we get it. They're not the same people. I was also going to say LSB for talking about a plan to put people on the lurker list and then not following through...but.... Another post that sticks out to me as excessively scummy. The last line is the typical response of a mafia who is trying to hard to fake surprises "Oh, I would have *never* shot LSB, I thought he was scummy" is what we are supposed to get out of it. Its a textbook scumtell, which makes it more unlikely to be accurate, but I believe it bears mentioning, scumtells are tells for a reason. He then has 4-5 posts where he promises analysis and points out that Drazek flipping red makes me probably red... which is ridiculous, as I said earlier, scum who feel threatened love to muddy the water by buddying up to town leaders and distancing themselves from their buddies, its a method to both try to avoid the immediate suspicion and to bring chaos when they die. VisceraEyes then brings up a rather large PBP analysis of Drazek, which is a point in his favor, although the fact that he had to wait to get to a vote lead before he produced this says something bad about his motivation. It also seems to me like his analysis is a rehash of previously made points. In the end VisceraEyes comes out looking scummy, but trying to redeem himself, arguments in his favor include that no one has come out and defended him and the fact that he is defending himself. I'm not convinced of Viscera's guilt, and Sinani206 Lets talk about Sinani206, the man some people are convinced is scum. He starts the game by pressure voting 201, his clone, in an attempt to generate some activity, which is good. Then when we start discussing a "pro-town atmosphere" he shows up with this little tidbit On June 28 2011 14:44 sinani206 wrote: Pro-Town atmosphere would ideally be:
Being a "leader" seems really scummy to me. I just have this innate bias that leaders are mafia, and even though there is quite a slim chance of them being scum, if they are, town has already lost. As has been mentioned before, all spamming does is derail town. It makes posts hard to find and confuses people so that scum are harder to analyse and pin for what they really are. Scumhunting is obviously very pro-town. It gives the town a good discussion point and helps (obviously) find mafia. No reason not to do this. Lurking is confusing for all players who aren't lurking. It makes you hard to analyse. Obviously with all the anti-lurking abilities in this game, it isn't much of an issue, but keep this in mind. That pretty much covers it. If anyone has any additions, feel free to share. Keep all of these points in mind when posting and analyzing. Off to play some SotIS and then go to sleep. Probably won't check the thread until morning. Good night folks! Now people gave him a lot of crap for point 1.) No Leaders, which I fail to grasp, yes its not a *brilliant* point, but its one way to generate discussion, to make a controversial point of debate! We could have had a whole polarized debate with people forced to give opinions on the value of leadership and on how the town needs to scrutinize leaders. Instead it was glazed over and brought as a point against him Bad Ideas =/= scum. Its the rest of his points we should be taking issue with, as its spelling out the obvious, its the type of thing a mafia can say without sticking their neck out, because it doesn't address *how* to do this. No No Lurking, because we will shoot you, no discussion of how the town will enforce the atmosphere, only one good point amongst many bad ones. This post *is* scummy, but not for the reasons that have been brought up He then spends like 6 posts insinuating I'm mafia because I take "leadership" which is how I act every game anyway, which I'm sure sinani206 is aware of. Still its good to question "leaders" as they must be scrutinized in case they are mafia, in which case they can lead the town in circles. On June 29 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote: Stop derailing the thread with the IRC nonsense. You're scaring others (like me) from posting. This post, it just confuses the hell out of me. The derailing the thread part is good, but the reason is... crap... how does the conversation about IRC scare anyone from posting. To me it looks like discontinuous logic, Sinani is scared of posting and needs a reason for it, so he comes up with something that is happening in the thread to justify it. This, is extremely suspicious to me, as he has never claimed to be "scared" in any other game of his I've seen. Sinani206 then votes for VE, based on meta reasonings. As I have said before, when you make a case for your vote it can use meta as backing, but never as the sole reason. Furthermore Sinani206 bashes VE's analysis, yet Sinani has all of ONE post that is longer than a few lines. He has no analysis and next to no opinion on players. Its almost as if he weren't committing to anything , the only opinion on players I've seen from him is Drazek is less scummy than VE, because Drazek is playing similar to how he played in SNMMIV (poorly). Oh and GM is scum, my gut says so, which is the most weaksauce argument I've seen in a while, especially after he claimed he "naturally" thinks leaders are scum. From his scant contributions and his effort to post enough to not be a lurker, while *still* not helping the town, and his unwillingness to actually form opinions, I conclude that Sinani is scum running scared. He might just be playing poorly as town, but right now he looks red to me. My opinion might change if he makes up his mind on a couple things, such thoughts on other players in the game, and a justification for his lack of opinions previously. Drazek Now, l'm pretty sure my opinion on Drazek is going to be pretty radical compared to other people's but so be it. Lets look at one of his first posts On June 28 2011 21:46 Drazerk wrote: After reading Dropbear's post on Henry is anyone Else suspicious of Edward the first? At the start of the game he is Pretty much forced into talking by Henry which Dropbear picked up on but no one really followed it up. ( I think LSB died a few moments later ) As other people have said the majority of his posts are him stating they are not the same person and the only thing he has truly contributed was outlining a mistake by Chaos Either Alerting his mafia buddies of a possible medic claim or just being stupid Personally Im suspecting Both Edward and Henry due to the amount of Fluff they are producing to keep of that lurker list Now, what exactly is this post? Is it a wall of fluff? Perhaps an attempt at dodging thoughts? No, its an *actual* opinion! On TWO players. Without prodding or prompting I think too. Do you know how rare this is? Especially if he is mafia? How many other players had commited to an opinion at this point in the game? Almost none. This in book earns the man some townie points, despite the weakness of his suspicion and the lack of a vote supporting it, he still came out with an opinion. This is almost exactly what TAA did earlier, minus the cynical tone, its a townie looking post, in style, even if it lacks content. Furthermore he *does* vote for Sinani206 which makes the post an accusation, rather than a mudfling. Then there is his defense of me, I will not quote it in full as it is not necessary, but how often do you see mafia players radically reversing their positions like that? Not often, at least in my book, I would have expected a much more doubtful post from him in regards to me, something like "he could be town, might be scum, lets talk about maybe lynching him, if you want". Its possible its a mafia ploy to tie us two together, in which case there is a clever player in the mafia team, but to be honest, I doubt it, to me this reversal in stance is exactly what scum would avoid, as it causes people to scrutinize you even harder. I find his lack of opinion on hiro interesting though, having already expressed opinions on Sinani206 and 201 I would expect him to have said something about hiro. Although he reaches much the same conclusion as I do "Hiro has yet to say *anything* we can judge him by" He then contributes this analysis of sinani206, which is 1.) bringing focus back on a FoS he had earlier and 2.) Actually an all out accusation. This shows that Drazak is actually forming an opinion | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 30 2011 06:09 sinani206 wrote: Also, you're "throwing it out there" on purpose to make people vote for me instead of you. That's a really scummy defense. Someone who has not contributed much making one liners and then claims that me pointing out is a scummy move... You are Scum and unless you can prove me other whys my vote will stay on you | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On June 30 2011 06:12 Drazerk wrote: Someone who has not contributed much making one liners and then claims that me pointing out is a scummy move... You are Scum and unless you can prove me other whys my vote will stay on you OK, how do I prove you "otherwhys"? | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
The last paragraph on VE should read VisceraEyes then brings up a rather large PBP analysis of Drazek, which is a point in his favor, although the fact that he had to wait to get to a vote lead before he produced this says something bad about his motivation. It also seems to me like his analysis is a rehash of previously made points. In the end VisceraEyes comes out looking scummy, but trying to redeem himself, arguments in his favor include that no one has come out and defended him and the fact that he is defending himself. I'm not convinced of Viscera's guilt, and think Sinani206 is a better lynch from where it cuts of in my Drazek analysis. This shows that Drazak is actually forming an opinion and committing to it, which is not a newbie mafia trait. Finally asking for DT checks is one of the last things a mafia would ask for, since there is the risk of them being taken up on it. Basically I don't see where this wagon on Drazak is coming from, all I get from him is a newbie town read. He might be deceiving me, but hes answered all questions and committed to opinions thought the game, if he is scum he has some good guidance from his team, but so far he seems like a transparent townie to me. My vote goes on Sinani206 | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Actually produce an analysis, Form a real opinion for yourself rather than jumping on band wagons and stop producing all this pointless fluff to try and blend in as a townie when you are obviously not | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Form some opinions, point back them up. Why am I scum for example, other than "became leader". Point out what I've done that shows I'm not town aligned, or that actually hurt the town. Make an actual case or analysis of someone. Something. | ||
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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