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Lists never seem to help the town out as much as you would hope. I think it was said during PTP lists are generally bad. Typically you want to target 1-3 players who are acting scummy on a certain day. You try to get them to post and be active, and then once the town decides to lynch or live, you move on.
In PTP the idea of "zodiac lists" were brought up. How many people paid attention to lists past day 1? I don't need to repeat what BC has already said, since I agree with his logic about lists.
I'm interested in hearing more from Chaoser, aside from his lovely looking list. This is a new strategy for someone who has typically avoided lists and scum-hunts one at a time. I'll refer to Chaoser's daring strategy during Mafia XXXIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=46#906 [Read Day 2: How Chaoser & Sandroba somehow got me lynched].
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On June 28 2011 12:58 LSB wrote:
@BC I agree with you.
Now, back to the important stuff
About Deconduo and Fishball
Deconduo believes that Fishball should die, and would like nothing better to stand over his dead body.
Fishball believes Deconduo is mafia (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and therefore wouldn't be able to vig shot him, but rather would use a mafia hit.
What's an easy way to deal with this problem? Easy! Stick them in a cage and see who comes out alive. Just let deconduo shoot Fishball tonight. Oh, and can I please ask vigs to not hit people? Thx
*If Fishball survives, well, deconduo has some explaing to do
*If we find two bodies tomorrow morning, deconduo is a bit better off in his story
*If all we find tomorrow is Fishball dead, one body. Well, back to square one.
There! Clean and simple solution that doesn't waste a lynch
..........Wow, I just, wow.
Either of the other flipping gives us dick all without their role alignment. All we have to work on is their actions and act accordingly. Saying "no vigi's shoot" does not mean either is fucking mafia. Mafia goes "lulz watch this" shoots one. We rage and lynch the other like dumbfucks because 1 has to be red -_-
How about we start analyzing. How about we start harassing people being dumb as hell. How about rather than letting blues act out claims we can never fucking confirm, or reds from having free reign we do some real work?
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Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP.
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bc stop trying to humor the mafia and just come out with your list of whos mafia and whos not
i know you have the list
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On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote:
Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP.
No one's role is provable, all roleclaims are taken with a grain of salt.
Decon doesn't have to ever be a vig. For all we know hes a mason talking to a vig, etc....
Waiting to see what happens is a bad approach and we should be analyzing and making opinions based on whats posted here. Going "well so and so claimed x and this happened means they are lying or not" is wrong. Mafia could hide kp, they could hit a vet, hit med prot player, maybe town has a rber? maybe they made two kills last night and as a penalty don't get to shoot tonight, etc....
Speculation is not helpful and is pure wifom ground. We should not be making it easy for anyone to dodge any form of pressure or commitment to something, or giving mafia easy access to shooting people.
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On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote:
Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP.
Then what are you trying to find out? Just to see if decon is a vig? What does it mean by he seems more/less believable. If he's more believable do you think that means he is town? He could be SK or even mafia and someone else shot Fish. If he's less believable does that mean he's scum and you'll push for his lynch? What is the purpose of this test besides making Fishball die?
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On June 28 2011 13:15 Caller wrote:
bc stop trying to humor the mafia and just come out with your list of whos mafia and whos not
i know you have the list
List? I have a spreadsheet. Why the hell would I ever use a list when a spreadsheet or word doc is the only efficient way to collect information.
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Canada4998 Posts
I actually think you guys are missing the point on LSB post to be honest, cuz I can see a really pro-town outcome if you read between the lines.
Chaoser is my number one suspect for the moment, I call him out on lurking then he pops up and posts a ranking list with no explanation. Seriously?
@Deconduo What do you think about chaoser? Is he town that needs to die or scum?
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On June 28 2011 12:58 LSB wrote:
@BC I agree with you.
Now, back to the important stuff
About Deconduo and Fishball
Deconduo believes that Fishball should die, and would like nothing better to stand over his dead body.
Fishball believes Deconduo is mafia (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and therefore wouldn't be able to vig shot him, but rather would use a mafia hit.
What's an easy way to deal with this problem? Easy! Stick them in a cage and see who comes out alive. Just let deconduo shoot Fishball tonight. Oh, and can I please ask vigs to not hit people? Thx
*If Fishball survives, well, deconduo has some explaing to do
*If we find two bodies tomorrow morning, deconduo is a bit better off in his story
*If all we find tomorrow is Fishball dead, one body. Well, back to square one.
There! Clean and simple solution that doesn't waste a lynch
Ah yes, LSB logic. Oh, how I miss it.
1. If deconduo decides not to shoot me, that doesn't necessarily prove anything. It can be a ploy, or it can a be a genuine decision.
2. If we both die, that also doesn't proves anything. What is this "story" that your dreamt about?. deconduo thinks I'm green, but wants to kill me because he is annoyed. If I'm Mafia and I try to take him out with me, how would this story make sense? What would be the point for Mafia to take him out if I were for sure to die? I'm sure there are better targets out there.
3. Square one? If that is what you think, then you have already written me off, as I have no use to the Town at all; What do you take me for, a disposable chess piece? I don't even know what to say.
On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote:
Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP.
WTF is this shit? This is even worse than deconduo.
If I were a Dayvig, I'd instant kill you now.
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I normally don't like wasting my time picking out other player's post, but this is just getting ridiculous.
On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote:
I actually think you guys are missing the point on LSB post to be honest, cuz I can see a really pro-town outcome if you read between the lines.
Blanket statement with no content. Me and BC at least explained our arguments. What you're literally saying is, "John Doe is a nice guy, just look between his legs".
On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote:
Chaoser is my number one suspect for the moment, I call him out on lurking then he pops up and posts a ranking list with no explanation. Seriously?
I wonder how many times I've seen this. Regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and the content of his posts, your accusations alone does not make a strong case. Accuse a random lurker, lurker pops out and posts something, therefore said lurker is scum!
On June 28 2011 14:08 sandroba wrote:
@Deconduo What do you think about chaoser? Is he town that needs to die or scum?
"Is he town that needs to die or scum?" What kind of shit question is this? "Town that needs to die?" What, are you deconduo Junior?! Does the consensus shows a strong town read on deconduo? No. Then why are you asking deconduo specifically? What do YOU think of Chaoser besides the so called reason listed above?
To summarize, your post is a filler post, with little to no content, faking activity and discussion with an agenda that does not help Town at all. Normally, I would just disregard these posts, assuming the players were just bad, but since this is an invitational game, I'm curious about your alignment.
On June 28 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote:
Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get.
And back to Jackal while I'm at it. Like I said, I never named names. Those who defended me have made it obvious. Regardless, you also think I'm scummy - "as scummy as they get" that is. Alright, cool. Do you have a case about it? No? Another blanket statement?
Is this the so called contribution and activity everyone was yearning for? I call this crap.
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Canada4998 Posts
LOL seriously? Have you read chaoser's second post after I called him out for lurking?
Also way to make me look scummy when I was obviously calling out deconduo on his earlier statement (that you were 75% and needed to die) and trying to get his opinion on chaoser.
I think it's pro-town because it discourages mafia from hitting anyone if they want to cause confusion or Decon is mafia or 2 people get hit. If medics can figure your aligment the outcome is pretty pro-town don't you think?
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Canada4998 Posts
EBWOP: 2nd paragraph is regarding LSB's post.
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On June 28 2011 15:14 sandroba wrote:
LOL seriously? Have you read chaoser's second post after I called him out for lurking?
Also way to make me look scummy when I was obviously calling out deconduo on his earlier statement (that you were 75% and needed to die) and trying to get his opinion on chaoser.
I think it's pro-town because it discourages mafia from hitting anyone if they want to cause confusion or Decon is mafia or 2 people get hit. If medics can figure your aligment the outcome is pretty pro-town don't you think?
I knew you would jump the gun. I said regardless of what Chaoser's alignment and what he says. Both BC and you have made a post targeting Chaoser, yet you don't see me picking on his post.
Alright, I'll take your point and let that deconduo statement slide, but still, my main point stands. Small talk back and forth, asking questions (like the majority of your posts) doesn't do much. If you have a case against someone, go all out on it; If you have points to be made, make it and support it.
In general, I don't see much of that in the thread among the players, instead I see a lot of blanket statements and shallow accusations and questioning. No doubt there will be Mafia among them trying to blend, but it pisses me off more when a Town aligned player pull these acts. Besides my random jabs, there is a reason why I like to remain silent until I have something to say.
On June 28 2011 15:14 sandroba wrote:
I think it's pro-town because it discourages mafia from hitting anyone if they want to cause confusion or Decon is mafia or 2 people get hit. If medics can figure your aligment the outcome is pretty pro-town don't you think?
...Mafia is not dumb. If two people were strangling each other throats, it's common sense to let them fight each other. LSB saying this "out loud" does not make it a pro-town move. Important thing is, what if there is a Mafia among us? What if deconduo is Mafia? He just got away with a free kill. Hell I already made a couple posts regarding deconduo, and replied to LSB's post point by point up top.
If you still don't see the logic, then I can't help you.
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Canada4998 Posts
Sigh, I think I failed again to communicate my point. Mainly I dissagree with you on LSB being suspicious, I agree with decon and chaoser being scum. I wish I could make a long analysis on chaoser but he has a grand total of 2 not only contentless, but completely random posts. His ranking system boggles my mind and I can't really see any other purpose for his post besides to appear to be contributing while not really.
We have less than a day to decide on the lynch and I would really like us to consolidate our votes sooner, rather than later.
##Vote: Chaoser
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On June 28 2011 13:11 LSB wrote:
Uhh... Just saying... I'm not trying to say anything about either's alignment, it's a test to vertify whether or not deconduo's claim holds up.
Certainly if we wake up tomorrow and Fishball and Caller are both killed, deconduo seems a bit more believable.
If tomorrow only one person is killed, well something fishy went on and deconduo is a bit less believable.
As for analyzing I'm getting a null read on Fishy, and deconduo I'm bothered by his confidance in his KP.
Now, I don't like deconduo more than the rest of you, but I can't let bad ideas slip by.
You see, deconduo claims to be a vigilante. This means that we have two options that make sense.
a) We don't believe him and lynch him for roleclaiming
b) We believe him and hope he uses his KP well.
I don't know how much people actually bother to read everything brought up, but controlling vigi shots when we have no idea who it is controlling them doesn't make any sense to me at all. That way the mafia can influence the choice of targets, and thus take away the unique aspect of vigi shots that they are more likely (by a little but) than any other kill in the game to hit mafia, from a purely statistical point of view.
So what's it going to be? We're not directing Dec's shot, so either we let him live and make his own decisions, or we just hang him.
I have no problems with simply killing him.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
BC you're accusations of me are fine, and encouraged. But if that's the way you're going to go about them(ad hominemy) then it's going to perk up my spidey senses. You're accuastion either holds merit or not, so keep the rest out.
On June 28 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:
I have no problems with simply killing him.
I do. Lynching Decon is a bad move. He's active, opinionated, and pushing his views. Players like that are bad Day 1 lynches. And saying things like: "He's 75% green but lets kill him" is not something that mafia say(unless they are really bad or really ballsy).
Besides we have much better targets for Day 1: Chaoser, LSB, Ilovejonn, Kurumi, Chez or Caller all make a better lynch target.
Chaoser is the best of the bunch however.
/in, free time is a blissing
Sup guys, finally found some free time to post.
Hey guys, found some more free time so I'll post up my thoughts on some stuff.
So much for all that free-time. His posts consist of agreement with other players or questions, but more importantly every post so far talks about previous games. A great way to type words without actually saying anything.
##Vote Chaoser
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On June 28 2011 19:11 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:
I have no problems with simply killing him. I do. Lynching Decon is a bad move. He's active, opinionated, and pushing his views. Players like that are bad Day 1 lynches. And saying things like: "He's 75% green but lets kill him" is not something that mafia say(unless they are really bad or really ballsy).
Well, then you're encouraging us to trust him, and that's fine too. Also, you're completely wrong on the "he's probably green but lets kill" as something mafia wouldn't say, that's exactly what mafia would say.
One of the little reasons I don't like deconduo is that this is the second time in the thread that he's trying to make sure that he's not certain on his suspicions.
Somewhere in the thread he said about fishball "bored townie or mafia". Which again, is exactly what I'd say as mafia. Drive home a kill on a townie, and then hide behind the excuse "well I said he was probably green" or "he was bad for town anyway".
You can see why mafia would like this yeah? Kill greens, don't take the blame?
On a side note, I'm glad you're committing.
Now tell us why he's scum.
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On June 28 2011 19:24 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 19:11 Radfield wrote:On June 28 2011 18:16 Palmar wrote:
I have no problems with simply killing him. I do. Lynching Decon is a bad move. He's active, opinionated, and pushing his views. Players like that are bad Day 1 lynches. And saying things like: "He's 75% green but lets kill him" is not something that mafia say(unless they are really bad or really ballsy). Well, then you're encouraging us to trust him, and that's fine too. Also, you're completely wrong on the "he's probably green but lets kill" as something mafia wouldn't say, that's exactly what mafia would say. One of the little reasons I don't like deconduo is that this is the second time in the thread that he's trying to make sure that he's not certain on his suspicions. Somewhere in the thread he said about fishball "bored townie or mafia". Which again, is exactly what I'd say as mafia. Drive home a kill on a townie, and then hide behind the excuse "well I said he was probably green" or "he was bad for town anyway". You can see why mafia would like this yeah? Kill greens, don't take the blame? On a side note, I'm glad you're committing. Now tell us why he's scum.
Its no flip brah.
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Fishball,Radfield are town. Palmar and Deconduo are scum,now I am going back to flying under the radar. Oh, and three dwarves went to the pub and got drunk.
If I see a late case on Radfield as scum today,the creator is scum.
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EPT
