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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On June 28 2011 09:43 Palmar wrote:
My reasons are these:
Radfield has posted really obvious, but valid pro-town stuff, much of which hardly needed to be said. He is going fanatically after inactives and lurkers, but hasn't actually bothered to hop in and stick a vote on one of them.
He has basically floated in the thread, stating the obvious without conclusions or actually pointing a finger at someone.
Also, no lynching is terrible and should not happen.
Here is a simple explanation
Lynch: Can hit mafia or town
MafKill: Can only hit town
VigiKill: Can hit mafia or town (except the vig himself)
Unless the vigis are retarded (unlikely, since I'm not one) then they should be shooting every night, and we should be lynching every night, cause we want as many kills as possible to be "our" kills and not the mafia kills.
Am I really this bad at explaining myself or are you deliberately cherry picking?
1. An early policy of lynching inactives forces mafia to post.
2. I advocate lynching a scummy player over a lurker.
3. A Day 1 no lynch is not terrible, though it is certainly may be with 2 potential anti-town KP in play. We're not going to no-lynch today.
Frankly the more suspicion you heap on me, the more likely I am to survive,. Here's an even better idea though; if i'm alive in 2 days, you can follow callers plan and lynch me.
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On June 28 2011 08:06 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2011 06:41 deconduo wrote:On June 28 2011 06:39 Fishball wrote:On June 28 2011 06:15 deconduo wrote:
Lets liven things up a bit more.
Fishball, if you don't step up your posting I'm vigging you tonight. Unless I can get you lynched first. You can do whatever you like. I post whatever I want, when I want. Your threats only makes yourself look dumb. When I flip Town at the end of game, you can then blurt out "Fishball, you played so bad. You're so useless so I vigi'd you. Sucks that you are green but you dug your own grave." Nevermind, I just said it for you. Anything else? I'm like 75% sure you're green. You are just useless. Think of it as cutting off dead skin. About Fishball, he doesn't like to post what he considers useless, and that includes most of pre-game talk. And deconduo, what do you think, should we focus day 1 on policy lynches or scumhunting?
You got it half right. It's quite obvious to all the older players that I do things my way. I enjoy observing/fishing early, and this time deconduo bit the bait; I didn't even aim for him at the start.
When I questioned all the fuss regarding the Day 1 lynch on Night 0, deconduo jumped on my throat. Like I mentioned before, I don't expect a player like him to share my thoughts, so whatever.
Then he called me and Caller "useless" - Me and Caller useless, alright. At that time, BC only posted once in the thread, and was still MIA for a long period of time after he confirmed, no mention. Hesmyrr was gone for a long while as well, no mention. People arguing over trivial things, no mention. If you go through the thread, in the first 24 hours, there isn't much you can exactly call " solid contribution". Activity? Yes, but contribution? Sure, but definitely not much. Anyways, it somehow boiled down to me and Caller as the scummiest, cool.
After further beating around the bush, deconduo finally admits that he thinks I'm town, but I should die because I'm useless by his claims. Now take a step back and think. This game is no-flip. Assuming that he kills me, no one would ever know what my alignment is. There is no "oops, I screwed up" moment. People might also think it was just his rage that got the best of him and not dig too deep into his motives - Perfect cover.
Bottom line, if you're Town aligned, claiming that you think that someone is Town, but should die due to personal bias, is just flat out retarded. This is ranked higher on my list than the lynch-all-liars policy lynch. The damage such player would cause could be much higher than another player just "shitting up the thread" (which I'm not even remotely close of doing).
Now, you guys already had a lot of discussion on Night 0 regarding the lynch. Was there any conclusion? Nope? Then consider what I said up top. We have about 24 hours to decide who to lynch, and unless you guys have a better candidate to present, I won't budge my vote.
deconduo wanted my contribution? He gets my contribution.
Too bad it's against him.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also:
On June 28 2011 09:43 Palmar wrote:
He is going fanatically after inactives and lurkers but hasn't actually bothered to hop in and stick a vote on one of them.
I take it from your tone that you disagree. This game will be won or lost based on keeping mafia active, and not allowing players to lurk.
Also, there is absolutely no need to place down my vote yet.
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No I agree, completely.
Now go, find me an inactive and tell us why we should lynch him.
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My problem with you not that you're wrong, but rather that you're technically "lurking" in the sense that you're not commiting to anything, even if you're posting a lot.
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Back from work. First of, I'd like to say no-lynch is not fully pro-mafia. When I said it should only be used mid or late game, people have stated that it might be a good idea in MYLO or whatever, which is what I wanted to say but just did not know the term for.
I know this is a closed setup but for an example, if we somehow manage to conclude that we have 4 townies and 2 mafia left during the Day and someone is put up for a lynch, would you decide to no-lynch? Option 1) Lynch and potentially end the game right there if we lynch a townie, Option 2) no-lynch and wait for the mafia night kill which cuts down the list of suspects, and then have another day to decide the lynch. My choice would be Option 2).
Sure it may sound like I'm totally echoing Radfield's posts, but this is how I feel I should express myself, instead of "yes, i agree 100%."
Anyways, for the Day 1 lynch, going with lurkers is definitely fine by me. However, we all need to decide on who to lynch. I know I may seem like the lurkiest, but I'll definitely have to disagree if you go "lulz you're one of the lurkers". I've read all the posts and this game I'll only be posting if I actually feel like I have something to say, unlike others who have been questioning every single post, or posting random irrelevant things. On that note, I'd list people who have been shitting up the thread to be voted for lynch as well, besides only lurkers.
Caller stands out to me. I know he trolls in most of his games, but in this game I don't think allowing him to do so will benefit anyone but scum. Even Chezinu is posting a lot more normal, and if Caller is town he should start acting like one.
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Also read Fishball's post. I also find it really odd when players go "dude I think you're town, but you should still die." It makes no sense, If you think he's town why would you want him to die. That isn't playing to win, that's just flat out stupid. "Oh but he can still be scum" is not a good come back. Seems like you're just going with your gut that Fishball is scum even though there is a much higher chance that he is town. That makes me suspicious of deconduo as well.
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Hey John, considering you're only going to be posting when you feel like you have something to say, do you really think your last two posts needed to be said?
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Considering people have been saying I disappeared for no reason, and I want people to see where I stand on things, yes.
Scamp, why do you think chaoser placed you on his tier 3 list along with Chez, sandroba, Kurumi? Or do you not care about it at all? Just want some opinions on what you're thinking about atm.
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On June 28 2011 10:31 ilovejonn wrote:
Also read Fishball's post. I also find it really odd when players go "dude I think you're town, but you should still die." It makes no sense, If you think he's town why would you want him to die. That isn't playing to win, that's just flat out stupid. "Oh but he can still be scum" is not a good come back. Seems like you're just going with your gut that Fishball is scum even though there is a much higher chance that he is town. That makes me suspicious of deconduo as well.
Oh, seems like there are more gems to add, since I missed a new post deconduo made last page.
On June 28 2011 08:21 deconduo wrote:
I'm just pissed at Fishball for trolling so I haven't been paying proper attention to the game. My bad.
##Unvote Fishball
I'll deal with Fishball tonight.
Does no one see the hypocrisy?
So deconduo finally came to his senses, figured out that somehow I was "trolling", and it was his bad for wanting me lynched and diverting Town's attention, so he takes his lone vote off me.
No one had listened to him in the thread; Numerous players had came to my defense, but only now he figured it was not in the best interest of Town to talk about killing me; When there were no arguments left on his side to justify his actions and players were starting to question his motives. The giveaway was the fact that he is still claiming that he will "deal" with me at Night. The best of both worlds? Nice try.
I'm pretty sure he has been paying attention to his game alright. His Mafia game.
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Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get.
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On June 28 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote:
Just so there are no misconceptions Fishball, my post regarding what I perceive as lunacy from decon is in no way shape or form a defense of you. For all I know right now you're as scummy as they get.
Noticed I didn't name names?
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sorry, I will get to posting in a bit. I had a lot to do today then when I got back I had to kick start RTM.
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On June 28 2011 06:24 chaoser wrote:
Hey guys, found some more free time so I'll post up my thoughts on some stuff. One, I remember in one game LSB's rank list was a hindrance to how I, as a mafia, picked our kills. Also, it gave the town a clear and easy visual tool to see how the game flow was going (top players getting killed off, middle of the pack, etc.) In Sleeper Cell Mafia, the fact that Ace lived till like day 7+his crazy claim+his actions all added up together to mark him as scum (even though no one lynched him on it). Plexa in another game lasted till the very end, leading the town to three wrong lynches and no one called him out on it.
Tier 1
BloodyC0bbler
Radfield
Tier 2
RebirthOfLeGenD
Caller
Fishball
Jackal58
Chaoser
ilovejonn
deconduo
Hesmyrr
Amber[LighT]
LSB
Tier 3
Chezinu
sandroba
Scamp
Kurumi
Over time hopefully this will be helpful somewhat. At this point Caller is the most useless. He's been trolling the thread pretty much and since there's no PMs and no flips it's not like he can be doing stuff in the background as town. Can you be a bit more serious Caller?
.... Seriously? You are posting lists of ranked players? I used this exact same idea when I was mafia with FW in mafia 28 to make it look like I was solidly contributing while using it as cover.
Factor in you have ranked chezinu who is out of all the players below tier 1 most deserving of a slot in it is laughable. You rank caller and fishball tier 2 when both at the top of their game are as good as I am if not better.
I didn't think anyone would make such a terrible post today.
##unvote
##vote chaoser
Also radfield I may disagree with you strongly on your stances, but accusing you was and will be in the future the only way to get responses out of you that are required to determine your alignment. I am sorry if this annoys you but it is part of my style.
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On June 28 2011 09:47 Radfield wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 25 2011 18:03 Radfield wrote:
I also disagree with some kind of voting pressure platform. We don't need to "pressure" lurking players, we need to lynch them. It's post or die in this set-up, as anything in between screws us in the endgame. Any player coasting Day 1, or setting "traps" etc is playing sub-optimally, as this is not a normal game.
BC wrote:
You actually do need to pressure lurkers untop of lynching them. See if they don't talk and you kill them whoever pushes their death we learn nothing of really if there is a coroner role. However, if we have the joy of seeing them talk, then find out what they are later via some form of coroner role, we learn lots of info's. Hell just getting them talking gives us info on their possible alignment / alignment of others. All discussion in a setup like this is good, and you want those "lurkers" input on shit too.
I'm not even really sure what you're saying here, other than the obvious(talking>not talking). The fact is, the entire idea of voting for 'pressure' is a bad one. Somehow this idea has picked up steam since last I played, that you can just 'pressure' people and get them to talk. Then once they talk you move onto some other player and 'pressure' them. I am advocating that if someone is lurking, you vote to kill them. Obviously you use common sense and adjust if they're convincing, but someone is going to stop lurking once you pressure them regardless. There is zero reason to lurk before getting pressured, so popping out once you get pressured is no reason to keep moving down the chain of lurkers(which is what happens). What I'm really getting at, is that any 'pressure' applied better be with the intent to kill, as any other type of pressuring is extremely weak. No mafia are going to defend their buddies when there is a pressure-train going around the block. The rest of your post is mostly no lynch chatter. Lets not talk about this anymore. I've made my position clear, and if you want more clarification then so be it. It's very unlikely that a no-lynch situation will arise today anyways. + Show Spoiler +On June 28 2011 02:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2011 23:57 Radfield wrote:
Amber, our votes should not begin going down until the end of the first 24 hours, at that gives us some time to discuss. The second 24 hours is when we should begin putting down our votes.
Fishball is active, which is more than many other players so far. Caller will either start contributing or not. As long as he is active for now, he gets some grace.
I will make a real post tonight, but lets ease off on the early day 1 votes/wagons. Votes force suspicion you tard. By waiting for the last 24 hours you are denying us a full day of getting clear input on suspects from people. Seriously? Are you always this pro scum? You misunderstand my post. I'm advocating that we spend the first 24 hours doing exactly that: getting clear input on suspects from players. What I'm saying is that if we are going to pick 2 suspects to lynch, we should be picking them AFTER the discussion, not before. We need to settle down the thread. Decon and Fishball, you both need to end your argument, as arguing gets us nowhere. The rest of you stop throwing around random one-line vote posts. We need focus and clarity on Day 1, as anything else furthers mafia objectives. With majority lynch a bad thread is particularly insidious. Chez, you're playing sane, so who are we lynching today, and who's dying tonight? LSB and Chaoser need to make a few more posts. On the bright side, ILJ is the only one not posting.
You and I simply disagree. I pressure vote everyone I think is scummy or useless to get a read on them. The way they answer dictates how I proceed with it. My issue surrounding what you were suggesting with the 24 hour period if that if no one is forcing activity in some way that garners responses in a way that makes them harder to fake the tells are going to be very hard to read. Factor in proving your analysis is very hard in this setup you need the best information you can get. Sitting back and letting people talk this way or that without being overly committal until the last day is hard to accurately read as sheeping because far easier.
I will agree that the pressure system of voting has taken off the last while, although I honestly believe most people use it incorrectly. Perhaps this is merely my view of it.
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On June 28 2011 11:05 ilovejonn wrote:
Scamp, why do you think chaoser placed you on his tier 3 list along with Chez, sandroba, Kurumi? Or do you not care about it at all? Just want some opinions on what you're thinking about atm.
I really have no idea what Chaoser was thinking when he ordered those tier lists. Note that he didn't really offer any idea of what to DO with it. Also I don't know what tier 3 is supposed to mean.
Not to mention these lists always tend to turn out badly unless Dreamflower is making them.
What I'm thinking about currently is to figure out who is trying to confuse the town and who actually has good reasons for trolling.
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BC, the ranking system I used is a bit different.
Tier 1 are medic protects, people that tend to die really early. Two seems like a good number to put there. Radfield dies early, and as for you, well you do got the rep that draws hits.
Tier 3 are players who usually would not draw mafia hits and are good DT checks as they are the ones most likely to survive to the end. Normally they are newer players, however someone like Caller would normally be Tier Three cause so many people want him dead.
Tier 2 is everyone else
Now, this is not a defense of Chaoser, but I'm just oftly proud of (most) of my creations. Although it is easy to put together, As for Chaoser's true intent, well, I don't think calling out caller is anything original either
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Oh yeah, I don't think the lists will be good for this game. It was designed for the giant open games with lots of new players and potential inactives. Everyone in this game is fit for tier two. Not much of a helpful list
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On June 28 2011 12:33 LSB wrote:
BC, the ranking system I used is a bit different.
Tier 1 are medic protects, people that tend to die really early. Two seems like a good number to put there. Radfield dies early, and as for you, well you do got the rep that draws hits.
Tier 3 are players who usually would not draw mafia hits and are good DT checks as they are the ones most likely to survive to the end. Normally they are newer players, however someone like Caller would normally be Tier Three cause so many people want him dead.
Tier 2 is everyone else
Now, this is not a defense of Chaoser, but I'm just oftly proud of (most) of my creations. Although it is easy to put together, As for Chaoser's true intent, well, I don't think calling out caller is anything original either
My rep draws vigi's.
However a list like this is pointless in a game of veteran players. All of us have the experience to do plays that newer players would never do as they would deem them too risky.
For instance. Say radfield lives till day 4. Lets say for arguments sake he never gets a medic protect or gets shot by anyone. Just because he lived that long does not make him red. Mafia can easily use the "hes only red or sk if he lives long" to not shoot him as town will opt to lynch him later. With a player list like the one this game has we should be basing all lynches, and vig hits based off in thread performance. Not past reputations, not past actions. If you act like a dumb fuck and appear scummy you will get shot or lynched. If you are obviously playing counter town same shit.
A tiered list with no real discussion of purpose or intent does nothing but provide a list. You can be happy with them all you want, but a random list is useless. So is saying "these people should get medics, these ones dts, these ones whatever. Why? Because it gives mafia an idea of where to shoot to avoid clashing with blues.
Game should be taken by each individual action, not a damn "this guy is awesome, so lets save him and hope he wins us this durr game"
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@BC I agree with you.
Now, back to the important stuff
About Deconduo and Fishball
Deconduo believes that Fishball should die, and would like nothing better to stand over his dead body.
Fishball believes Deconduo is mafia (correct me if I'm wrong on this), and therefore wouldn't be able to vig shot him, but rather would use a mafia hit.
What's an easy way to deal with this problem? Easy! Stick them in a cage and see who comes out alive. Just let deconduo shoot Fishball tonight. Oh, and can I please ask vigs to not hit people? Thx
*If Fishball survives, well, deconduo has some explaing to do
*If we find two bodies tomorrow morning, deconduo is a bit better off in his story
*If all we find tomorrow is Fishball dead, one body. Well, back to square one.
There! Clean and simple solution that doesn't waste a lynch
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EPT
