EPTIt seems that we're out of lurkers. Everybody has at least posted something. Once more time passes we'll see who isn't super active, but for now it's back to pressuring.
##unvote stefftastiq
##vote Palmar
step it up, Palmar.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia III - Page 8
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
It seems that we're out of lurkers. Everybody has at least posted something. Once more time passes we'll see who isn't super active, but for now it's back to pressuring. ##unvote stefftastiq ##vote Palmar step it up, Palmar. | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
##vote Palmar Back up your mataza attacks or back off | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Let's do this, we do not have much discussion, but at least we have something and almost everyone has by this point contributed a post or two that can be analysed. Youngminii is giving me town vibes. Even if he agreed with a plan that's bad, he seemed to be doing it for the right reasons, not the wrong ones. He's active, although I would've liked him to just actually cast a vote against me instead of doing the whole "FoS" thing. I like aggressive town behavior, cause I feel it puts people on the ropes faster. I think we ought to not lynch him tonight. Hesmyrr is another guy I feel I need to talk about. He seems pro-town, but with his replacement, he becomes infinitely harder to read. This is a good target for a cop check, I think. Again, not a good lynch target. Mataza is weird this game. This observation is purely based on meta, but normally Mataza is both aggressive and borderline crazy. He suggest crazy plans, draws weird logic conclusions and attacks people left and right. This game he has been playing very carefully, to the point where he's using meta to defend himself, see here: On June 04 2011 23:40 Mataza wrote: Yes, it´s quite sensible really. With my normal start I was widely perceived as random and scummy, which is not good for my play whatsoever. I could of course say it´s only good for my town play, but that would be deceiving you. As Scum, lynching me is obviously what I don´t want. As Town, lynching me would be a mislynch and that´s also bad for town. Also Prplhz get a grip on yourself. Since this setup has no PMs, claims are just a bad play. I only advocated claims in SNM2 because we could deduce the exact setup. Here, we have to do it by plain old scumhunting. For example tomorrow we know the kill of night 1. Now for example if I would drop dead, it would make Palmar a suspect. Then again you can go by the fact that Palmar wouldn´t be that straightforward and look for someone who furthered an argument between us 2 without getting himself involved. Just like Giygas Vanilla vs Vanilla as working assumption, all in favor? I think Mataza might be a good lynch target tonight, but there's one other I'd rather lynch I mean, it is only his third game, so one could argue that this is just him trying to step up his game, but this is also mine, stefftastiq's and prplhz's third game. Which brings me to stefftastiq and prplhz. I feel really uneasy about both of them. Stefftastiq is once again, very careful, something I know he does as town, but I would assume that at some point he would step up his game. prplhz seems less useful than I'd expect of him, but maybe he was doing the same thing as me and waiting to post some analysis today, now that we've got information. Also, he suspects my prime suspect, so that helps him  Second post coming in. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Last person I wanna talk about is sinani206. He has contributed almost absolutely nothing to this game. He created a damn list of post-counts, and he's updating us with vote-counts. This is the lamest excuse for activity I have ever seen. My previous attitude of randomly calling out people for lynching was even more useful than those damn lists. I'm not going to include his lists in this. On June 04 2011 12:48 sinani206 wrote: Yes I completely agree, but if we don't have any outstandingly scummy players there is no point in choosing the scummiest player (who might not be very scummy at all) over a player with one post and an unexplained vote. Wanting to lynch inactive players is a terrible way to play day 1. Wanting to push inactive or useless people, like has been done to me and stefftastiq is a good way to play. You never want to end up lynching the inactive, cause it's almost guaranteed that you'll end up killing a bored townie. The end vote should much rather go to someone who is actively lurking, but not contributing. Do you know who I'm talking about? On June 04 2011 13:58 sinani206 wrote: Varpulis, why did you change your mind so quickly after Hesmyrr posted? More "contributions". On June 05 2011 13:40 sinani206 wrote: He only responds to people and does not contribute to the discussion at all. He talks about some joke that obviously does not have to do with the current game, and then asks me and Mataza some silly questions. There had not been too much wrong with Mataza's play at this point in time, so I don't see why he begins metagaming with his first post. His question toward me was particularly pointless, because I specifically stated that it was a list of players who had not posted since the Day 1 post. I obviously could not name myself in the list because by posting the list I myself would be posting. Silly filler questions to help his active lurking regimen. ##Vote stefftastiq I don't really understand your motives here. You are much more of an active lurker than Stefftastiq, and you actually have a good history of being useful as town, so I'm very suspicious of you. Stefftastiq's meta suggests that he's very careful even when he's town, so while that doesn't clear him by any stretch of the imagination, it certainly pushes my suspicion rather towards you, seeing I know you're capable of very strong town play. And that's it. Sinani206 pointed out that he has a lot of posts, as that would somehow absolve him of suspicion, but it's just bullshit. He's posting a ton, pushing for lynch on people that don't post, but nothing he's posting has any content at all. I don't think he would've changed his posting habits if someone hadn't pushed him hard like I'm doing now. We will probably get a "useful" post from him in wake of this. Let's see just how useful it is. ##Unvote Youngminii ##Vote Sinani206 | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 05 2011 03:34 youngminii wrote: Vets are probably the strongest role in that they can fill in the role as town leader/coordinator. If the mafia want to kill him, they have to use 2KP or roleblock+hit (which not only reveals that there is a roleblocker, it uses both at once). Since the vet has a lower priority for mafia night killing, as long as the town are always cautious, the vet can act as the town pillar. Bolded for reference. I don´t know what good a designated town leader/coordinator does in a game without PMs. Since everything he says is in the open, he cannot coordinate night actions without letting the scum know it. That leaves analysis and scumhunting, for which we don´t need a leader. Actually a single, declared leader is detrimental, as it can devolve into "follow the leader" and scum sucking up to him. And Palmar: Me trying to improve my playstyle so that I have a little more credibility is apparently a bad thing now? No use going further into this as meta reads are circumstantial evidences. Only meta behavior alone is an awful way of playing mafia. That´s exactly the type of witch hunt I don´t want to be part of. On other issues: I didn´t know that it´s common for Veterans second life to be roleblockable. That is probably good for town, because it can force the mafia to put nk and rb on the same person, or they risk not getting the kill they want. And Sinani did only awful list posts so far. He didn´t do that any other game I was in with him. Although I get the feeling I greatly overestimate the people I played with, this is far beyond what is acceptable. ##vote Sinani Your time is lapsing. Step it up. And is this normal for youngminii to vote with sheeped reasons? For all the hype people in this forum bring towards experienced players, many of those are sure no role models for how to play. | ||
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dementrio
678 Posts
This is my first game of mafia (played werewolf once before) and I don't have enough experience to know whether the vet claiming or defaulting to lynching the least active player D1 are good policies, I won't comment on that. I think the best I can do is trying to identify the players I think act the scummiest or towniest. So far the one that caught my attention is sinani206. He started out with a list of inactives 8 posts into the day and I was especially perplexed by this comment Varpulis, why did you change your mind so quickly after Hesmyrr posted? where to me it seemed varpulis was just trying to clarify to sinani himself what the lurker discussion was about. He had no change of mind at all and this struck me as an unnecessarily aggressive remark that can lead to no helpful discussion. I know that this is no proof, hardly everything is in this game, but I was taught that it's always a good idea to lynch someone who acts scummy, even when a mafioso would be less obvious, because a townie who plays like that hurts the town anyway. The rests of his contributions where updates on who posted less. So far I'm inclined to vote for sinani. My thoughts on other players: prplhz - FoS on youngminii. All he's done this game is claim noob, joke around, and then this bout of activity when I pointed out that he was lurking. His recent activity hasn't been useful either, he's trying to defend Mataza and then arguing with whoever is around about Palmar's plan, which is a bad plan. I don't see how this will get us anywhere and seems like he is just posting for the sake of posting. when he wrote this youngmiini had not claimed noob, and contributed more than prp did, although both about the somewhat fruitless vet claiming discussion. Prplhz made an easy list of "inactive players" and youngmiini happened to be the first to talk a bit after that, with prplhz immediately jumping on him and using this as the argument for his guilt, which is an incredibly weak argument if you ask me. I lean scum on him. Varpulis - I think he is town. He seems suspicious of everyone yet reluctant to condemn anyone, which is the only sensible approach town can have on d1 imo. His accusational posts also have a towny feeling to them, saying things like "please be more helpful" instead of "you are scum". Palmar - he spent the day coming up with the claim idea, calling everyone scum, then tossing his own idea as a terrible one and just a "conversation starter". Until he actually made some meaningful contributions in his lasts two posts. I think the way he acted for most of the day was so anti-town that he would deserve to be lynched just for that, but as I am writing this he might be the only one who actually posted his thoughts and arguments on players which is the only thing we really need right now. He might have done so just in response to pressure, but I will hold my judgement on him, I think he would be a bad d1 lynch because he's one of the few who actually wrote useful posts. jeejee - he told unichan he should try to pick people who he thinks are scum and explain why. This is solid advice, so much so that I would like to hear jeejee do it himself. youngmiini - I have no idea where he stands, not because of lack of contributions but rather because I can't lean him on one side yet. unichan - in my first and only werewolf game i was randed wolf and I acted like he is doing now, hiding behind inexperience and expressing timid remarks about how something can be vaguely towny or scummy in dire fear of doing a wrong step. However i don't know how a newbie town would act and in my first game everyone actually thought my attitude was very villagery and I won by being the last wolf standing :\ I think we need to see what he has to say when he gains confidence. Mataza - all he has done is talking about metagame and game mechanics, sneaking in a bandwagon vote in the very last post. I lean scum on him. Kavdragon, stefftastiq and Originalname made no meaningful contribution in my opinion. I need to hear more from them. While I was writing this it seems that sinani has become the bandwagon; I think he's a good one but I would also like to hear from the other suspects / inactives, so #Vote prplhz p.s. is there a handy way to make multiquote posts like this with links to the various quoted posts, or do I have to copypaste each link manually? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Also, nice catch on unichan. I think we should definitely keep an eye on him to see if he raises the bar with his posting. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
While I am remaining suspicious of sinani and steff for their inactivity, you have repeatedly shown throughout your posts that you are one of the following: A. Scum B. Unfit for town Also I'm unvoting Steff because he's put in an effort, as little as it may be. You still have to step it up Steff. ##Unvote Stefftastic ##Vote Palmar | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I'm glad you actually stuck a vote on me this time though, even if the thought process behind it is flawed, at least you're aggressive enough this time to at least have a hope of creating discussion. Congratulations. The reason you want to hit people is because they behave in a way that scum should behave. The thought process you should be going through is "If I were scum, would I be posting this". Only Mataza and Sinani206 fit my bill when I went through the thread. I would try to play somewhat like them if I was the scum. Now, you may not agree with my methods to the point you're willing to vote me off for them, but can you honestly go through my posts and say "this is how I'd post if I was scum". If you can, then keep doing your thing man. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Meanwhile, i found another lurker. Kavdragon has yet to post his opinion about anybody. He advocates lynching lurkers to the extent that we should "focus on lurkers" today instead of pressure and discuss. The only thing going for him is that he shot down the discussion starter vet claim plan. He said that he won't be lurking, I'd like him to prove it. ##unvote Palmar ##vote Kavdragon | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Hi and welcome to the game. What I was thinking about when I said "claim noob" wasn't him saying "I claim noob" but him throwing out some excuse for his poor play, even before we had begun as evident in his first post: On June 04 2011 16:14 youngminii wrote: Reporting in. I haven't played mafia in a long time so hopefully I don't screw town over too hard. @Varpulis: I'd rather lynch a lurker than do a random lynch. Also I never said that youngminii was guilty of ANYTHING. I simply FoS'ed him because I thought that his play was not very good. I didn't get the same scummy feeling reading his posts but I thought that it was weird how he contributed nothing, and then totally tried to change his behavior once the slightest pressure was put on him, and I really mean the slightest pressure 'cause he had been mentioned only twice in the entire game, sinani206's list and me when I pointed out his inactivity because I wanted to put some pressure on Varpulis. And then he made another 9 posts, 4 within half an hour, mostly talking nonsense about a bad plan. Sudden change in behavior when pressure is applied is not townie. Everything aside I don't currently think that youngminii is scummier than sinani206 but his defense of sinani206 is quite bad and if it turns out siani206 flips scum then youngminii will have some explaining to do. Also this vote on Palmar is pretty weird but less weird considering that he probably doesn't know Palmar's meta. Palmar The guy has been creating most of the drama so far and while it did make people talk I don't think it was good for town. His first posts only served to put pressure on Mataza, very light pressure as there were no arguments at all but pressure nonetheless. I think his last two posts with analysis have made him a lot less dangerous to have around and. I also don't like the idea of lynching one of the more active and powerful assets this town could have on day1, we should keep him around and get a better read on him, we can always lynch in case he gets too scummy. Mataza The dude has mostly reacted to the pressure that was put on him in the beginning and he didn't do that too gracefully ("Fine, lynch me."). His most recent post was a bit more defense and a bandwagon vote for sinani206. I think you need to put more out there and be more active in scum hunting 'cause I know you know how to apply pressure. Just don't lose yourself in some silly crusade. sinani206 His activity after my initial vote and analysis has been more lists, a bandwagon on stefftastiq (sinani206's vote put him to 3 votes total at the time even though he's down to one now). Then he has a lot of spammy edits with no content after that. I don't see any reason to change my vote. You can do better than that sinani206. OriginalName The guy has posted surprisingly little so far. I'd like to see more from you as I don't believe you have posted an excuse for your relative inactivity either. Who do you think is scummy and are any of those scummy enough that we should lynch them instead of going for an information lynch? Also I'd like if we started organizing votes a little more. It's all over the place, half of us are being voted for right now. Candidates right now as I see them are: sinani206 for scummy behavior OriginalName/stefftastiq/unichan for relative inactivity, I'd pick stefftastiq out of these 'cause with meta and all I think he's the one who will be least useful for town in the long run If you want a candidate for active scum/information lynch then you'll have to go somewhere else 'cause I don't like the idea of lynching an active player day1. How you people like these candidates? Oh Varpulis just posted: Kavdragon said here that he'd be somewhat inactive for day1 so I doubt your pressure is gonna work. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
##unvote Kavdragon ##vote OriginalName Lynching Kav day 1 would be too mean anyways. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
On June 05 2011 23:06 Palmar wrote: The analysis isn't flawed. Policy lynching inactive people is stupid, and will never hit a scum. I may be wrong, but my reasons are certainly valid enough. Lynching people who you think are unfit for town is also stupid, cause that means you're not hitting scum. I'm glad you actually stuck a vote on me this time though, even if the thought process behind it is flawed, at least you're aggressive enough this time to at least have a hope of creating discussion. Congratulations. The reason you want to hit people is because they behave in a way that scum should behave. The thought process you should be going through is "If I were scum, would I be posting this". Only Mataza and Sinani206 fit my bill when I went through the thread. I would try to play somewhat like them if I was the scum. Now, you may not agree with my methods to the point you're willing to vote me off for them, but can you honestly go through my posts and say "this is how I'd post if I was scum". If you can, then keep doing your thing man. ... what is this really I'm gunning for you because your reasoning/play has been scummy so far, it doesn't have anything to do with whether I agree or disagree with your 'methods'. Also, less belittlement please. Basically your post had no real content. You reaffirm your belief that lynching inactives is stupid, yet you never disagreed with anyone about it earlier. There are plenty of people other than sinani advocating the inactive lynch, including myself, yet you don't even consider this in your crusade against sinani. Then you go on and post a bunch of bullshit for the sake of content. No, you are definitely the scummiest in this town. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
Town Varpulis -You think I'd put myself anywhere else? Mataza -not the best start, but I'm liking his most recent posting. It's logical and straightforward. JeeJee -Logical, helpful, and critical. His posting gives me town vibes, and I agree with his arguments. Palmar -retarded posting early, recent posts are good. For now, I'll tentatively call him green, though i'm less confident on him. Prplhz -town vibe. much like JeeJee, his posting is quite good, except for this one, which is fluff. Null reads Unichan Kavdragon OriginalName stefftastiq Scum Youngminii -supported a terrible mafia favored plan with terrible logic. References experience but isn't showing strong play. Votes Palmar for an analysis that he doesn't agree with. Sinani206 -Actively lurking, not providing opinion, posting lists in order to seem like he's contributing. My vote goes on Sinani at the end of the day if he doesn't step up his posting. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On June 06 2011 00:18 prplhz wrote: Palmar The guy has been creating most of the drama so far and while it did make people talk I don't think it was good for town. His first posts only served to put pressure on Mataza, very light pressure as there were no arguments at all but pressure nonetheless. This line really stands out as odd to me.. Making people talk is just about the most pro-town thing you can do, especially on day 1. In general, I'm getting a pretty pro-town vibe from palmar actually, he started off day1 firing in 2 ways, tunneling on one person and shitty plan bait, this raised great discussion imho as a result of both of these, and is a very pro-town move on day1 where discussion is hard to find unless you force it in such a way ==> I am not sure why there's votes on him (for the record, whoever's been keeping the vote counts, they've been quite wrong. plus it's kind of pointless to arrange them by the voters rather than the "votees"). I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to see minii doing what he does though =/ My suspicion of him isn't abating as he posts more, /shrug At the mo, I'm happy to keep my vote on minii; although searching for sinani's posts, and seeing that they are quite exclusively based on vote lists (and earlier on inactive lists), does make me frown. He did have a part of a post address steff, but if you ask me, that's not enough. Actually I want his stance on the main people that are talking* right now: palmar, minii, varp, myself if you feel so inclined. *talking with substance I mean, sorry but keeping lists doesn't count. only time I'd bring lists into the discussion is if someone is at L-2 or L-1 to make sure that everyone knows the importance of votes at that time | ||
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
On June 06 2011 01:41 Varpulis wrote: Disclaimer: My vote stays on originalname until he shows up or it becomes clear that he's not going to. My next vote will go to the person that i think we should lynch today. I've pressured enough, it's time to be decisive. As of now, I've got a few town reads, a few scum reads, and a couple of null reads. they are as follows: Town Varpulis -You think I'd put myself anywhere else? Mataza -not the best start, but I'm liking his most recent posting. It's logical and straightforward. JeeJee -Logical, helpful, and critical. His posting gives me town vibes, and I agree with his arguments. Palmar -retarded posting early, recent posts are good. For now, I'll tentatively call him green, though i'm less confident on him. Prplhz -town vibe. much like JeeJee, his posting is quite good, except for this one, which is fluff. Null reads Unichan Kavdragon OriginalName stefftastiq Scum Youngminii -supported a terrible mafia favored plan with terrible logic. References experience but isn't showing strong play. Votes Palmar for an analysis that he doesn't agree with. Sinani206 -Actively lurking, not providing opinion, posting lists in order to seem like he's contributing. My vote goes on Sinani at the end of the day if he doesn't step up his posting. Sorry I'm teenager who was just sleeping in. Just catching up will post in abit. | ||
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