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On June 02 2011 01:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Actually, I would. People would go "oh hes just a noob and bad" letting me hide an entire red team in plain sight. It also gives your team more thread control as your team is active. I know I am not everyone as well so I do get where you are going with that line of thought. However, you must also remember this, in alot of mafia games not everyone on the team communicates. Some players just do their own thing at the benefit or expense of their team. No helping a player like that
As for it the list I posted. Its a group of people primarily revolving around thread derailers. I then gave a brief outline of why. Its day 1, going through the whole "lets quote every post they have to analyze" is pointless. You could snag a red that way but its far less likely. Someones actions are more likely to catch someone at this stage.
They posted badly, and more importantly, detrimentally to town. A horrible townie who plays in opposition of his team can be as destructive as a mafia member. Read almost any game in it with billmurray as town and you will understand where I am coming from. I understand you disagree with me, but the move is far from scummy.
Some of your posts have rubbed me the wrong way but this one I really don't understand.
The first half--sure, that makes sense. It's completely feasible that a mafia could hide behind the noob shield and hope to coast to victory.
The last paragraph, however, is what I'm not understanding. You can't have it both ways--either new townie players do their best to contribute and get accused of derailing or they fear posting and get accused of lurking. Of course the answer is "get/play better," and I would assume that is what they're trying to do. I can only speak for myself, of course. But I can say that you haven't exactly encouraged thoughtful play here. Attack the posts, not the player. It almost feels like you're trying to discourage newer/weaker members from posting. Why?
One of my previous posts was raising my concerns in regards to Desk, which was waived off as a weak argument and largely ignored. Which is fine, I suppose, but I don't see why that would be labeled as derailing. I would rather look at players whose names haven't been brought up yet rather than bandwagon and vote for someone who already has 5+ votes. Which would you prefer as a follow townie? A noob townie looking for scum or a noob townie who doesn't post and/or is a sheep? Would you rather lynch a noob townie who you believe to be "derailing" or an inactive player? I'm not understanding your agenda.
Another player who hasn't received much scrutiny yet is you, BloodyC0bbler. An example of this is GM voting for him as a throw away, "There's no way BC will be lynched tonight."
One of your posts from earlier today began with:
On June 01 2011 15:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
How about we discuss people who are obviously derailing the town? How about we take a look at people who are obviously active yet not posting. People who come out when called, offer no actual substance and move on. There are numerous players in this game who are not being helpful. This is not to say they are all 100% mafia, but mafia benefit more than town from chaos.
To me this is a scum trying to draw attention away from their active scum buddies. "Look at all those inactive scum that are hiding!" is what you're saying to me here, which I find highly suspicious. You have been very active, of course, but I question how much you've actually been helping find scum.
Your big claim to fame I would say was your list here:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2011 16:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Varpulis + Show Spoiler +
-pushes anti town plans
- wants to lynch all liars
-attempts to undermine town plans
-spends way to much time on ambers role
-brings up GM’s first question post which was not town oriented. Uses to confirm GM as town
-answers GM’s last questionnaire which was not town oriented
Hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +
-blindly agrees with almost everything vets say/far too sheepish
-spends too much time on keeping conversation around ambers role
-after town has moved on from ambers role attempts to drag conversation back to it
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Tackster -Multiple cases again him in thread already, see those. prplhz + Show Spoiler +
-wants LaL when it was agreed it doesn’t work in this setup
-sheeps kita, sandroba and possibly others who are being pressured strongly at any one time
-aggressive posting while offering no substance
-defends tackstar, who barely has any heat on
-answers gm’s questionnaire which was not pro town
-says if tackstar is innocent sand is scum (no way of knowing this)
-refuses to justify his read on sandroba(sheeping) while defending tackstar far too much for day 1
Rean + Show Spoiler +
-relatively inactive
-attempts to bring ambers role back up as town is moving on
-sums up information already said.
bartundar -inactive as hell for a vet and offers nothing substantive but rehashing things we have stopped talking about
But I question how much this actually helped. It's a large list, sure, but the majority of it is inactive players or people who had already had multiple cases brought up against them.
Unfortunately my activity will be low again today, workload is high and time is short. I will do my best to be more active than yesterday and post again before the vote today.
My vote for now, however,
##Vote: BloodyC0bbler
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On June 02 2011 02:34 deskscaress wrote:
also i find it really unnerving that GMarshal, supposedly an experienced, good player, tried to vote for himself
that gets a big "uh, okay?" from me
Many times voting for oneself is fine here. Actually more often than not.
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@desk
If I'm so obviously mafia baiting for information, why not vote to lynch me instead of Torte, someone who you're clearly NOT sure about? I'll tell you why. Because I'm NOT obviously mafia baiting for information.
@Everyone else
I don't care if ANYONE answers my survey. I thought I made that clear. If people answer my survey, it will help town as people will have more information to compare against in the future when scum-hunting. But the point wasn't for people to answer, the point was for people to THINK about the questions, which obviously people have.
In the name of ceasing "derailment" (I don't agree with that assessment, but I can only imagine how many others view it as that), I'm done talking about my survey. It's out there, for better or worse. As I stated earlier, I'm now looking at Sandroba, Tackster and tnkted because those are the lynch candidates for today. I'll probably take a look at prplhz' posts too because he's now in the running.
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Desk,Your "Torte claiming" thing has no sense,he probably has irl things,easy as that.
About Viscera,yeah it is weird,but he is a bit new.
Voting for Yourself or a safe player is a placeholder,GMarshal explained that,huge post,not much though.
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Karshe I am ignoring You,because Your arguments are the worst since Chaoser's SC2 posts analysis.
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Ok Kurumi, thank You for Your update. I couldn't name a single post of Yours right now, so with You, it's no love lost.
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On June 02 2011 02:42 Karshe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Actually, I would. People would go "oh hes just a noob and bad" letting me hide an entire red team in plain sight. It also gives your team more thread control as your team is active. I know I am not everyone as well so I do get where you are going with that line of thought. However, you must also remember this, in alot of mafia games not everyone on the team communicates. Some players just do their own thing at the benefit or expense of their team. No helping a player like that
As for it the list I posted. Its a group of people primarily revolving around thread derailers. I then gave a brief outline of why. Its day 1, going through the whole "lets quote every post they have to analyze" is pointless. You could snag a red that way but its far less likely. Someones actions are more likely to catch someone at this stage.
They posted badly, and more importantly, detrimentally to town. A horrible townie who plays in opposition of his team can be as destructive as a mafia member. Read almost any game in it with billmurray as town and you will understand where I am coming from. I understand you disagree with me, but the move is far from scummy.
Some of your posts have rubbed me the wrong way but this one I really don't understand. The first half--sure, that makes sense. It's completely feasible that a mafia could hide behind the noob shield and hope to coast to victory. The last paragraph, however, is what I'm not understanding. You can't have it both ways--either new townie players do their best to contribute and get accused of derailing or they fear posting and get accused of lurking. Of course the answer is "get/play better," and I would assume that is what they're trying to do. I can only speak for myself, of course. But I can say that you haven't exactly encouraged thoughtful play here. Attack the posts, not the player. It almost feels like you're trying to discourage newer/weaker members from posting. Why? One of my previous posts was raising my concerns in regards to Desk, which was waived off as a weak argument and largely ignored. Which is fine, I suppose, but I don't see why that would be labeled as derailing. I would rather look at players whose names haven't been brought up yet rather than bandwagon and vote for someone who already has 5+ votes. Which would you prefer as a follow townie? A noob townie looking for scum or a noob townie who doesn't post and/or is a sheep? Would you rather lynch a noob townie who you believe to be "derailing" or an inactive player? I'm not understanding your agenda. Another player who hasn't received much scrutiny yet is you, BloodyC0bbler. An example of this is GM voting for him as a throw away, "There's no way BC will be lynched tonight." One of your posts from earlier today began with: Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 15:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
How about we discuss people who are obviously derailing the town? How about we take a look at people who are obviously active yet not posting. People who come out when called, offer no actual substance and move on. There are numerous players in this game who are not being helpful. This is not to say they are all 100% mafia, but mafia benefit more than town from chaos. To me this is a scum trying to draw attention away from their active scum buddies. "Look at all those inactive scum that are hiding!" is what you're saying to me here, which I find highly suspicious. You have been very active, of course, but I question how much you've actually been helping find scum. Your big claim to fame I would say was your list here: + Show Spoiler +On June 01 2011 16:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Varpulis + Show Spoiler +
-pushes anti town plans
- wants to lynch all liars
-attempts to undermine town plans
-spends way to much time on ambers role
-brings up GM’s first question post which was not town oriented. Uses to confirm GM as town
-answers GM’s last questionnaire which was not town oriented
Hiro protagonist + Show Spoiler +
-blindly agrees with almost everything vets say/far too sheepish
-spends too much time on keeping conversation around ambers role
-after town has moved on from ambers role attempts to drag conversation back to it
-
Tackster -Multiple cases again him in thread already, see those. prplhz + Show Spoiler +
-wants LaL when it was agreed it doesn’t work in this setup
-sheeps kita, sandroba and possibly others who are being pressured strongly at any one time
-aggressive posting while offering no substance
-defends tackstar, who barely has any heat on
-answers gm’s questionnaire which was not pro town
-says if tackstar is innocent sand is scum (no way of knowing this)
-refuses to justify his read on sandroba(sheeping) while defending tackstar far too much for day 1
Rean + Show Spoiler +
-relatively inactive
-attempts to bring ambers role back up as town is moving on
-sums up information already said.
bartundar -inactive as hell for a vet and offers nothing substantive but rehashing things we have stopped talking about But I question how much this actually helped. It's a large list, sure, but the majority of it is inactive players or people who had already had multiple cases brought up against them. Unfortunately my activity will be low again today, workload is high and time is short. I will do my best to be more active than yesterday and post again before the vote today. My vote for now, however, ##Vote: BloodyC0bbler
So let me get this straight. Your going with my biggest claim to fame is a post of lynch targets who are known to be derailing the town? Yet I have been one of the core people trying to stop people posting anti town ideas, pushing forward pro town ones. The list you quoted is a general list of thread derailers who have been detrimental to town. I made mention on the type of people I intended on listing and no one complained.
As for your "lack of understanding." If a new player follows the guides we have available on the site, or reads past games, or in some cases plays on another site, they would all be aware of the style of posting you don't want to be associated with, be it mafia or town. Talking about important issues, or ones that force player activity are key. Pushing forward bad ideas, re introducing areas of discussion that the town has moved past from or deemed scummy, or redirected the town towards a completely unrelated topic where the one in current discussion is important are signs of someone you dont want hanging around.
I have no issue with people analyzing me, but if you are going to do it intelligently. What you and visceraeyes are doing is trying to create a wagon in the last few hours of a day towards one of the few players attempting to keep a semblance of order in the town. Top it off with neither of you have seriously analyzed any of my posts, just cherry picked one or two instead of my contributions as a whole. Desperate to remove me much?
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Kk,You're still with that tnkted,sandroba and trackster issue.
GET OVER IT.
Sandroba defended himself well,put emotions in it,we should leave him for now.
Tnkted on the other hand needs and alignment check and we're OK to go.
Trackster had made ONLY ONE post witch any info regarding our game,so why the heck 6 people are voting him? Bandwagon much? Give this guy time,if he does not come back he will get modkilled.
The serious problem has risen on the horizon:
Viscera and Karshe are attacking BC with some HORRIBLE arguments.
Prplhz admitted he is mafia,so could we get that one?
Just to sum up:
He was after Sandroba HARDCORE,then he posts this gem:
On June 01 2011 22:52 prplhz wrote:
Okay I agree that there's no point in spreading votes like this. sandroba has had his share of pressure put on him and if people don't think that he slipped then I guess I'll drop my case against him for now.
##Unvote sandroba
Yeah.
On June 01 2011 23:24 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi
sandroba has 3 votes with 2 votes being removed from him already. Tackster has 6 votes.
Really? How did You know that? SCUM?!
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witch should be which lol
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On June 02 2011 02:44 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 02:34 deskscaress wrote:
also i find it really unnerving that GMarshal, supposedly an experienced, good player, tried to vote for himself
that gets a big "uh, okay?" from me
Many times voting for oneself is fine here. Actually more often than not.
ah, thanks
i've never seen that before in any game except when a fool was involved so it bothered me
On June 02 2011 02:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
@desk
If I'm so obviously mafia baiting for information, why not vote to lynch me instead of Torte, someone who you're clearly NOT sure about? I'll tell you why. Because I'm NOT obviously mafia baiting for information.
defensive much? why are you so worried, scummy? i haven't changed my vote to tortelini yet, i clearly mentioned that i was just considering it. my vote is still on you champ, and it will stay there unless others agree that tortelini's soft-claim was fishy
On June 02 2011 02:49 Kurumi wrote:
Desk,Your "Torte claiming" thing has no sense,he probably has irl things,easy as that.
About Viscera,yeah it is weird,but he is a bit new.
Voting for Yourself or a safe player is a placeholder,GMarshal explained that,huge post,not much though.
actually it makes a lot of sense. he's posted elsewhere on the site since he said he couldn't post any more. only one post but i'm going to keep an eye on him in case there's more. why are you so quick to let him go though? i don't think ANYTHING in a game this complex is "easy as that."
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It is,when somebody says he can't write more today that's because he is busy IRL,if it was his restriction he would hint it someway and that sir,is not a hint.
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well, he definitely hinted at it, so i'm going to keep viewing it as a hint
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You're just derailing the thread,stop it.
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It is the same as discussing why I am writting "You" with capital Y.
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cba to read now, I just want to announce I strongly consider voting tnkted just to confirm his invulnerability claim.
Claiming it stops it from absorbing any kp, therefore reducing the usefulness of the role.
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On June 02 2011 03:50 Mataza wrote:
cba to read now, I just want to announce I strongly consider voting tnkted just to confirm his invulnerability claim.
Claiming it stops it from absorbing any kp, therefore reducing the usefulness of the role.
It also absorbs votes, which is why you're voting me. You don't want to get caught voting for somebody else. And mafia would love it if I were to get lynched today, since it would mean their chances of getting killed are nil.
Its better for me to claim when people are voting me, since they are wasting their votes and that is anti-town. Its also better that I claim in a game like this when town probably has more kp than mafia does. I don't want vigis wasting their only shots.
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I am going to vote for Kurumi because I find his behavior disruptive. I think he has about 60-70 posts in this game so far and I bet almost all of them are one/two liners. I also have another reason that makes him scummy, he has done something that we all agreed townies should not do, but I cannot tell you about that until day2.
##Vote: Kurumi
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On June 02 2011 04:06 prplhz wrote:
I am going to vote for Kurumi because I find his behavior disruptive. I think he has about 60-70 posts in this game so far and I bet almost all of them are one/two liners. I also have another reason that makes him scummy, he has done something that we all agreed townies should not do, but I cannot tell you about that until day2.
##Vote: Kurumi
Respond to my attacks scum.
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Also You know something I don't? Oh,I hinted who I picked role for? I didn't. That means we've got a scum bro lying around somewhere.
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Here I am again.
I posted that placeholder because I was considering putting my vote where it would actually make a difference.
However if you ask, it´s a damn tough call. We may choose between
tackster, who is practically inactive and will get modkilled if he doesn´t vote;
sandroba, who got really believably upset in his own defense;
tnkted, who claims being invulnerable until some later point; and
viscera, who is, well, viscera. I know him from last game and I kinda feel bad for him.
tnkted, you could have simply avoided drawing suspicion by, you know, playing pro town and helping discussion. Also, if Town has more KP than mafia, than we should be even more careful with it.
I´m not ok with putting the whole game on the gutfeeling of some hidden people.
Also, you have to acknowledge that claiming invulnerability removes a lot of suspicion from you. No one is going to discuss what the untouchable does. And that´s the part that makes me suspicious. You could claim easily what you want, if your role creator is on your team.
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EPT
