|
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 07:25 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2011 07:23 GMarshal wrote:
Radfeild, the only issue I have with your plan is that there is no guarantee that you are not the mole, as a matter of fact I think it likely that Ace would attack you viciously if you were the mole. So that when he flipped you would have great town cred, its a maneuver I often use as mafia, and one that Ace used to set up a dichotomy between himself and Jackal58 in Sleeper Cell mafia, it worked fantastically there, so I have no doubt that Ace would certainly try to repeat the trick, basically Ace attacking you proves nothing, in my mind at least. That's true, but Ace would not check Radfield night 1 if he was the mole.
They had an NRA member, its possible he was making sure that Rad wasn't a DT or something. I don't think Ace checking him clears him, and if he did check him then making him claim makes perfect sense as it gives him an excuse for never getting shot.
I'm not saying Rad *is* the mole, but we cannot afford to clear him based on Ace's actions, at least in my opinion.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK GM, I'm calling your bluff. We lynch you today to assure that the list is correct. I've gone through your posts and am building a case as to why I think you are the mole.
Foolishness is right, it's unlikely that Eiii would have sent in his kill but not his role check. Possible but unlikely.
##Unvote
##Vote GMarshal
|
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 07:59 Radfield wrote:
OK GM, I'm calling your bluff. We lynch you today to assure that the list is correct. I've gone through your posts and am building a case as to why I think you are the mole.
Foolishness is right, it's unlikely that Eiii would have sent in his kill but not his role check. Possible but unlikely.
##Unvote
##Vote GMarshal
I await with bated breath. Funny that as soon as I suggest you might not be 100% cleared you decide to "call my bluff".
Bring it on.
|
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
Is it safe to assume we don't have a traitor? When the traitor gets converted, it would be reflected in the mafia count, right?
|
Why do we believe Eiii's claim again?
|
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On May 29 2011 08:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Why do we believe Eiii's claim again?
Confirmed by the police radio.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Why GM is the mole. I hadn't actually looked through GM's post-Day 3 history yet, and had simply written him off as being pro-town because of the fact that he released his list-check before the police radio went off. However, as I've said before, if I were the mole I would carry on playing pro-town, and bus all my teammates. Lets assume for a minute that that's what GM is doing, but lets see if we can find any slip-ups along the way.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2011 15:12 GMarshal wrote:
Sorry for the late post guys, I checked the Incognito list.
1 of Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, Barundar is scum. The rest are townies, or cleverly disguised mafia.
My bet is chaoser
Take this as a "fuck you" mafia for not killing me. Now I have to substantiate all that stuff I said in what was supposed to be my last post.
Oh and ##Vote: Caller
The list has spoken.
First slip up, an apology. On Day 2, GM posted his list check about 9 hours after the day post. On Day 3, he posted about 3 hours after the day post, and yet apologized for his lateness. Why the apology? It is uncalled for and irrelevant. Let me be clear: THERE IS NO REASON FOR AN APOLOGY. Not a single player had questioned his whereabouts, and other than foolishness post immediately after the day-post, no player had mentioned GM. All I can assume is that he had been delaying making his post(presumably talking to mafia?), and as such felt the need to make an apology. Damning, certainly not, but very strange.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 27 2011 09:28 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 09:14 Radfield wrote:
You misunderstand GM. I don't think you're mafia, but I'm saying you could still be the mole. I don't think you lied about any lists at all, but keep in mind that last night(first night as mole) you did not use a list check, and instead role checked foolishness. Since the beginning of Day 3 you haven't necessarily done anything super pro-town(I haven't actually checked though, so correct me if I'm wrong).
You are confused about when the mole kicks in. The mole is inducted the dawn of day ( after night 2 ends). Today is day 4, yesterday was day 3, so I would have been informed I was a mole before I made my list check results public. Its irrelevant though, not lying once in no way clears me, however, I am pointing out that it should at least lessen the possibility that I am a mole. Also as far as I know my lists are now retroactive, so it should be able to spot the mole if he voted in the list I am checking. @Eiii, nice to know you checked me night 2, correct? On May 26 2011 00:27 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 03:27 Ver wrote:
Mole:
You are a townie...wait a minute. Initially given a normal townie role, but mafia is given his identity. After Night 2 ends, the mole receives his “Mole” role and mafia list. Mafia cannot PM him and he cannot PM mafia until he is formally inducted (day 3). There may be any number of moles.
Mepak, moles were induced yesterday, not today. But you have a point, my past lists are rendered unreliable, and we can only judge actions that took place *after* the end of night 2 to judge people, as any previous town behavior might be due to the insidious nature of the mole. I'm pretty sure that the only clear townie at the moment is bum for having shot Ace, which he would not have done were he mafia. The rest of us must be judged on our behavior over the past day and night.
He knows the rule to the moles very well, and points out players inaccuracies when they come up. Again, this is not conclusive by any means, but players tend to know their own roles very well.
Now we hit on some truly damning evidence. He twice calls for players to use their night actions on Caller. First the dt, and then any type of vigilante. Again, this is not damning in itself, but must be put in context of the whole picture.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2011 08:16 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 08:07 infinitestory wrote:
Oh, in that case we do have a living Alignment DT! :D happy news ^_^ Can I request he check Caller tonight? If he finds him town he should let us know, so we know there is a framer at play. If he is scum then we can trust our list checks to be mostly reliable, at least at finding scum. If the DT would rather do something else then we probably have no choice but to lynch Caller tomorrow, which I would rather not do, as lynches for information are terrible play. On May 25 2011 00:19 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 23:24 deconduo wrote:On May 24 2011 23:12 Radfield wrote:
So if there were 6 original mafia and we can assume they wouldn't double pick numbers, 3 of these are part of the remaining mafia, and Foolishness and bum both can't be scum. GMarshal, Radfield are fairly clear imo, and I know I'm not mafia. Eiii was cleared by IS, but he could be GF.
This is a bad assumption I think. We already know that scum collided their numbers at least once. Either Chez/Kurumi, or Chez/Tnkted(we don't know if chez was 4 or 9). Hunting scum based on numbers is an ineffective strategy. I've said it before, but if I had been mafia this game, I would have pushed to either double up or triple up on numbers with scum. Frankly, I think it's the reason there are so many 9's(Chez, Ace and Kurumi all take 9). Either way, Caller should be vigged tonight if we have one. I agree with this. I'd also really like it if a rolecop could verify chaoser's claim. As to all other DT actions, the risk of the framing godfather means we can't direct them. I trust them to do what they must. I'm considering saving my list check tonight and using a rolecheck instead. Thoughts?
oops, notice that extra slip-up that I italicized. His first post of Day 3 was voting for Caller. All of a sudden now it's a bad idea to lynch caller 'for information'. Why the flip-flop? At what point did voting for caller go from a killing scum to killing for info.
Also these two posts are back to back, but a day and half apart. A symptom of GM's diminished activity since Day 3 perhaps?
Discounts the NRA theory. Questions Questions Questions.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2011 00:09 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2011 22:46 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh here's an idea, wiggles checked the NRA member? That would explain why it triggered, and it would be a likely pick for town. Still don't know what LAT, the initials hes been putting in his posts, refer to. So maybe everyone should announce their checks just before night ends, so we may get somewhere. they would have to say it last second though, so mafia cant mess with the process. Righty? My guess is last and third word of every sentence, but I haven't gotten anywhere with that. Your NRA theory is interesting, my only concern is that a townie would do better to take methman than NRA member, as the NRA member makes punishes detectives as well as mafia. Should we encourage this person to claim? Or do we want mafia to run afoul of his rifle? Also, why are you discarding the possibility of a mafia vigilante? I think that would be a role mafia would not mind picking up, especially considering the fact that they have a piddling one kp.
More Questions:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 26 2011 10:54 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 10:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
The lack of discussion is killing us. Once Caller dies we literally have no plan. I agree, theres no way for us to find the mole if we don't have activity and such to help us pin down scummy people. So, let me open this to discussion, what list should I be checking with my last listcheck? Should we consider a mass roleclaim now that we are approaching the endgame, or should we hold out on that? Lastly who of the remaining players do you think is most likely to be scum?
In the last few pages GM has posted time and time again: Lynch me now, but don't you dare try to lynch me two days from now. ?? Why is he posting this? What is his motivation? Obviously we won't lynch him today to check the lists, we'd vote off the players we thought scummy on the list first, and THEN vote him off at the end if those scummy players flipped green. But he is trying to head this off at the pass.
Kitaman was also right about GMs post today. Why did he make excuses for Chaoser dying? What is the townie prerogative to try and rationalize a mafia kill at this stage of the game?
You're right though GM, this was slightly brought up by your refusal to accept me as a very sure non-mole. Fact of the matter is, the actions that have gone on this game, all game long, point to me being town aligned+ Show Spoiler +Do any other players actually think that Ace checked me night one to make sure I didn't run afoul of the NRA? Or that he would bother to bring up my role at all in the thread(let alone mention 8 times that I was scummy because of it). Or that Ace softballing me and linking me to incog all game, then trying to lynch me(his mole) in the exact same fashion as Incog was a ploy?
Also, what are you doing still alive? You're list checks were a massive asset to town, and the mafia absolutely should have been gunning for you at all costs. It was obvious a medic would protect you(maybe 2 or more defensive roles) so why didn't Kurumi plow into you? And why oh why did the mole not kill you last night! The mole had to know that if you lived to reveal a list check, the game is over and town wins. He HAD to gamble and try to take you out, as you are the real threat, not chaoser.
The only possible reason you are still alive in this game, is if you are the mole.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The mole, GMarshal: ![[image loading]](http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/weirdscience/mole%20powers.jpg)
|
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
GMarshal's postcount numbers:
Day 1: 22 posts
Day 2: 14 Posts
Other than some double post EBWOP's, there are virtually zero one-liner style posts.
Day 3: 8 posts(4 one-liners)
Hmm, looking for a player with reduced activity and a changed posting style? Look no further.
|
United States22154 Posts
I agree the mafia should have shot me. I have no idea why they didn't maybe they want to create a wifom scenario, maybe they thought medics would be on me, perhaps the stars weren't alignd. I have no way of knowing, ask Ace after the game is over, I'm sure he'll have an explanation.
The rest of your posts are "Accusing" me of asking questions to make people think. That is very damming indeed mr Radfeild. So asking questions and refusing to accept things like giving the mafia a door out make me scum? This case is as strong as the case against Orange (my) by Blue (sandroba) in experimental mafia, meaning not at all. I apologized for being late because it is my habit in games to be around for day/night posts, and I felt like I was robbing the rest of the town of valuable time to discuss said results.
Your case is laughable, lynching for information *is* bad play, I voted caller because there was evidence against him was damning, not for information.
You have no case caller, you are upset that I put doubt on your "plan", because for all I know you could be the mole, this overraction to my doubting you makes me suspicious of you. This case is less convincing than caller's case on Kav, and we now know that that was trumped up case. Bring better evidence caller, last time I checked asking questions and trying to avoid falling into mafia traps was town behavior. If I were scum I would have lied day 3 and would now have a larger team, rather than being on my own. You however claimed you would bus your whole team to victory.
If you are going to accuse me make your case more convincing than "he is apologetic and asks questions, oh and he is alive"
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Another contradiction: he gives Bum a pass for making a pro-town move, and declares him a clear townie. Yet, he will not do the same for himself despite the fact that he made a clear pro-town move as well. Nor will he do the same for me, despite the fact that anti-town moves were made against me.
Bum makes a pro-town move = Sure Townie
GM makes a pro-town move = Not a sure townie
Care to clear this contradiction up for me?
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 29 2011 09:08 GMarshal wrote:
I agree the mafia should have shot me. I have no idea why they didn't maybe they want to create a wifom scenario, maybe they thought medics would be on me, perhaps the stars weren't alignd. I have no way of knowing, ask Ace after the game is over, I'm sure he'll have an explanation.
The rest of your posts are "Accusing" me of asking questions to make people think. That is very damming indeed mr Radfeild. So asking questions and refusing to accept things like giving the mafia a door out make me scum? This case is as strong as the case against Orange (my) by Blue (sandroba) in experimental mafia, meaning not at all. I apologized for being late because it is my habit in games to be around for day/night posts, and I felt like I was robbing the rest of the town of valuable time to discuss said results.
Strawman
Your case is laughable, lynching for information *is* bad play, I voted caller because there was evidence against him was damning, not for information.
Then why the flip flop?
You have no case caller, you are upset that I put doubt on your "plan", because for all I know you could be the mole, this overraction to my doubting you makes me suspicious of you. This case is less convincing than caller's case on Kav, and we now know that that was trumped up case. Bring better evidence caller, last time I checked asking questions and trying to avoid falling into mafia traps was town behavior. If I were scum I would have lied day 3 and would now have a larger team, rather than being on my own. You however claimed you would bus your whole team to victory.
OMGUS, linking to the Kav lynch, contradiction
If you are going to accuse me make your case more convincing than "he is apologetic and asks questions, oh and he is alive"
Strawman
How bout you respond to the whole post next time.
Also, I thought you wanted to be lynched today, you know, to confirm the list and all  . Why not just shrug your shoulders and say "fine, lynch me, but go after x, x and x". It was no big deal to lynch you an hour or two ago. Is it a big deal now that I call you out? Another flip-flop?
Or is it that now because my accusation is so obviously trumped up you feel the need to stick around and make sure that scummy radfield gets taken down?
|
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 09:19 Radfield wrote:
Another contradiction: he gives Bum a pass for making a pro-town move, and declares him a clear townie. Yet, he will not do the same for himself despite the fact that he made a clear pro-town move as well. Nor will he do the same for me, despite the fact that anti-town moves were made against me.
Bum makes a pro-town move = Sure Townie
GM makes a pro-town move = Not a sure townie
Care to clear this contradiction up for me?
Shooting a teammate as mafia is basically unheard of, no sane mafia player would do it when they could force us to waste a lynch on them instead. Its so strongly pro-town that its basically unthinkable to me that scum would do it
Telling the truth about a list check, while also pro-town is an order of magnitude different from shooting mafia.
|
United States22154 Posts
Radfeild, I don't want to die, no sane town player does, its a waste of a lynch. its something I'm ok with if mafia might use me as an excuse to get away, basically I want this issue of "is GM town or not" dealt with today, if that means lynching me then I'll deal with it. Basically if we don't lynch me the game is solved and we win, if we do lynch me theres an uncertainty factor, I'll take a sure win over uncertainty any day.
Also its my duty as a townie to defend myself, just look at XXXIX where townies just "shrug their shoulders" and die. That is not acceptable as a town play, sorry, but I will defend myself to the bitter end, that way the town can look over the list and be "hmm who insisted GM be lynched and bought the mafia a chance at winning?" and will have something to work with, considering they are going to need it since the game won't be solved.
No hard feelings if you decide to go this route, but I want the town to lynch you next after I flip green ^_^
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'd expect nothing less GM. We'll let the jury take it from here.
No hard feelings if you decide to go this route, but I want the town to lynch you next after I flip green ^_^
Ouch, another bad scumtell. You flipping green has absolutely zero bearing on whether I'm red or green. The only thing that has bearing on my alignment are my posts and actions. (I actually just read that in Ver's thread today, thanks Ver!). I was wrong about Barundar night 1, but that didn't make me scum, it made me wrong. Thankfully, I don't think I'm wrong about you.
All of a sudden because I attacked you I am now more scummy than Eiii or Kitaman, the players you were pushing as likely scum just a moment ago. That might just be the definition of an OMGUS.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
moley moley moley moley moley moley moley
|
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
I also find it interesting that you went directly for me after your lynch check without providing an analysis or asking for a role claim. Could you provide an explanation for your reasoning?
|
Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
If Eiii is not going to die tonight, he should check Meapak to confirm his claim.
|
Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 29 2011 09:42 Foolishness wrote:
If Eiii is not going to die tonight, he should check Meapak to confirm his claim.
I assume this means your down for voting GM?
Also, role claims are fairly unimportant right now. We all started as town, so we all have townies roles. No need to lie about them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
