EPT
.TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 51
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OriginalName
Canada1140 Posts
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M0nsterChef
Canada67 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:31 redFF wrote: That makes 2 of us. I have been pushing for a day one lynch of originalname for a while, I think you should consider m0nsterChef too. I will do everything I can do to try and convince people to not vote gmarshal as the amount of reasonless votes for him is still unfathomable. Yeah i'm stalling on who i vote for because i want to see more solid numbers. That being said: ##Unvote Protact ## Vote DrH As i feel we need a rational town mayor as opposed to an assassin mayor, though i still want Protact as pardoner. 2 extra kills for town and a check guys come on. This is the third time you have insisted on lynching me, yet provide no other reason other than that I voted for Gmarshal without explaining why. If you read a couple pages back you'll see why I voted for him in one of my posts. | ||
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MetalFace
United States75 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Posts like the ones MetalHead just made are pretty scummy imo, you have to look past the "wordswordswordswordswords" and think about what the direction of their post is. His post had no direction other than to appear contributive. That's not good. My direction was the implication that people who attacked Protactinium's campaign have scummy motives. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:15 MetalFace wrote: My direction was the implication that people who attacked Protactinium's campaign have scummy motives. An implication that many people have already made, Protact himself included. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:14 M0nsterChef wrote: This is the third time you have insisted on lynching me, yet provide no other reason other than that I voted for Gmarshal without explaining why. If you read a couple pages back you'll see why I voted for him in one of my posts. Some people, including myself get suspicious when people vote but don't provide any reason or analysis or just what's on their mind. It's understandable, is it not? It gives the impression that you're hiding something. If you don't want people to have this impression than just try to contribute more. Until you do that there is a good chance people will see you as mafia. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:14 M0nsterChef wrote: This is the third time you have insisted on lynching me, yet provide no other reason other than that I voted for Gmarshal without explaining why. If you read a couple pages back you'll see why I voted for him in one of my posts. Yes, after the other scum told you that you had to provide a reason and what to reasons to provide. I am now pretty sure you are scum. | ||
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M0nsterChef
Canada67 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:24 M0nsterChef wrote: I'm pretty sure my explanation of my vote was not just wanted by MrWiggles and also Gmarshal and the other people playing the game. I simply used MrWiggles questions as a template for my explanation. Whether or not he is scum is irrelevant. lol who said anything about wiggles being scum? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
A misunderstanding. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Protact: tnkted's plan is not good for the town, so why is DoctorHelvetica objecting make him scum? Tnkted's plan was pro-town. Period. When was the last time that you looked at the voting thread? When was the last time you looked at this thread? Posting votes in this thread makes analysis much easier. There is absolutely no down side to it, and a definite up side. Not posting your vote should not be considered a scum tell as much as it should just be frowned upon. But it's not like it's going to be enforced, it's just something that will happen. When people start posting votes in here, people will start looking at people who don't, and ask them why. Stomping on that plan was anti-town, so it's one point in favor of Dr.H being scum. Next: You brushed aside my accusation that you could be red, saying that that applys to anyone. WRONG. You are the only person that has claimed assassin. You truly are a master of the pen, and i admire your ability to write convincingly, but you cannot defeat the logic that It would be worth it to get one mafia into one of the seats, even if they die. One of the easiest ways to do that is to get someone who is good at the game to claim Assassin. Based on that alone, i don't think that you should be considered for office. Lastly, you are correct in assuming that I have not read all, or even two of your games. I didn't have the time to do it, but I'm sure as hell not going to let that stop me from analyzing your play. I've talke to vets who have played with you, so I have do have some idea of your play. To those who say I'm posting stuff that's obvious so that I can say I'm pro town Don't you think that if i were mafia, I'd have realized that since everyone is saying that it's not buying me pro-town points, and stopped doing it? Why would mafia put so much effort into something that has been explained several times as NOT being something that will earn you pro-town points? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
#2 Analyze to Argue: Without good analysis as a strong argument, the best scum hunter in the world can't do anything: He has to be able to convince the town that his target is scum. Once you find your scum, you have to work to lynch him/her. Everyone is green till proven otherwise, and the burden of proof lies on you. Your analysis should includes those posts that are relevant, and good examples of the scummy behavior you are trying to point out. When I'm scum I'll make analyses that quote every single post so that people see a giant wall, and don't actually read the analysis. When you are a townie, that sort of thing is detrimental to your analysis, because you WANT people to read it. When you post your points, be clear as to what you are trying to say, and be concise. Remember, if people don't read it, then you've failed your mission. Don't include posts that don't need to be there. Now. Part of the purpose is to convince people that someone is scum, another part of it is to check your suspicions by looking at the response of the person you just analyzed. When someone is under pressure, they give a lot of information about themselves out through their response. The stronger the pressure, the more information you will get. Because of this, you want to make your argument as strong as possible, and you cannot use words like "probably" or "maybe" when deciding if he's scum. Even if there are no doubts in your mind, don't voice them in your analysis. This will increase the pressure, and give you more of a reaction. Does their reaction confirm your suspicions? If so, continue to pressure. If not, depending on how sure you are, you might want to pressure a little longer, or lay off of it. After your analysis comes up, you can expect a response from the person you are accusing. Look carefully at the argument, and pick it apart, pointing out the fallacies with the defense. Whatever you do, DON'T get drawn into a long drawn out argument. Don't keep arguing the same point, move on to the next one and let the town decide who was right. Always keep in mind that they could be innocent, even if they look really scummy. If they start reacting in a an extremely town like fashion, don't tunnel them. Again, use the reaction as an extra piece of information and re-evaluate the situation. If you've made your case, and the town decided that it wasn't good enough, don't get in a fist fight over it. Wait, and keep a close eye on that person. If they are scum, the will slip up again, and this time you'll be there to catch them. | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:10 aidnai wrote: eiii... This is exceptionally poor reasoning. If kita was black, that would force him to be anti-protact, how could his stance possibly indicate to you that he is not black? at best, it is neutral. You've misinterpreted my post, I think . It was that kita had taken a STRONG stand against prot-- yeah, blacks won't want to get him elected, but they also don't want to out themselves to the other assassins so easily. Kita straight-up arguing with prot that he shouldn't be mayor really puts him out there in a way I don't think a black would risk, and that's what pushed me to see him as green instead of red. | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
DH on the other hand, is a much better choice for mayor given that he’s actually shown signs of being pro-town. Like I said earlier, the fact that he changed his stance on me for the election shows that he’s actually thinking about this game, and not in a way that favors mafia. Secondly, much for the same reason that GMarshal’s vote train is unsettling, DH’s lack of a vote train is telling. Thirdly, DH’s play this game doesn’t fit into his mafia act. He’s been posting decisively, and has been voicing his suspicions freely, rather than being indecisive like he is when he’s mafia. DH is definitely a better candidate than GMarshal, and that’s saying a lot. Chaoser is the most pro-town person here other than me. But given his lack of clout DH is probably a better choice. Anyway, for that analysis that GMarshal has NOT shown us: I present to you Original Name. OriginalName quite frankly says nothing Original at all. On April 10 2011 13:33 OriginalName wrote: Well GMarshal you actually put forward an agreeable plan. Lynching My really base reads right now are GMarshal is town. Ive been on a scumteam with him he has more holes than swiss cheese. However as a mayor I would like to know what his plans are after Day 1 as lets face it D1 lynch is a damn crapshoot 80% of the time and when I vote I want more long term goals and ideas in mind Im not amazing at reads however if people do put forward them I will take the time to look at their scum reads. Another thing - one thing I picked up from a vet and I think we ought to start doing is analysing tge posts of those nightkilled. Imagine if we looked at GMs reads in insane 2 GF may have been outed faster creating a completely different game (ie Blacks wouldnt have made enough money for the names). So there ##Vote Gmarshal and all dat jazz. This just screams “hi I’m mafia!” Lynching Lurkers is a great idea? Wow, really, is it that great? OriginalName is trying to make something out of nothing. This is obviously not a new idea. The rest of the post doesn’t say anything of use. You know how to read GMarshal? Great. I’m sure you can see how he really hasn’t been saying anything substantive so far. Analyzing dead people’s posts? Wow, how Original. Not. On April 11 2011 06:03 OriginalName wrote: Back from RL issues. Im gonna recap to myself what happened along wkth opinions Protact getting support - Why is near confirmed non town getting an elected role. PANDAIN CLAIMING DT - What. The. Fuck. Was my first reaction. my second how do we know hes not lying. Sure theres no counterclaim but who would counterclaim D1 DT, theres likely more than one so how would we know yatta yatta add in wifom done mafia has a free dt kill D1 we get no breadcrumbs. Second its completely safe for panda to claim DT as scum. Scumteam elects him as Godfather and even if DT checks and confirms its like DF all over again (minus the D2 victory). How has Pandain only gotten the your an idiot reaction- Hes just abusing his metagame to fuck with town FOS Pandain Im goin to keep my vote on GM cause as wishy washy as people are making him out to be hes still quite protown. This post is even worse. You’re going to recap with opinions? Hahaha…There are no opinions here other than “No to Protact” and “Pandain is an idiot”. These tell us nothing. And also reinforcing GMarshal’s pro-townness without any evidence. On April 11 2011 06:58 OriginalName wrote: My scum reads: Pandain - Fakeclaim into lolno sorry not DT Protact - Assassin or Mafia Kavs arguement against him is solid My not sure reads: DrH - Why so aggro bro? Leaning scum Chaoser - Leaning pro town would be imo a great pardoner Everyone not listed (Most leaning town to various degrees) Town Reads: Kavdragon - This is not his scum style at all GMarshal Tnk Protact as scum reads? Please…I’ve already said why I’m not mafia. But apparently you haven’t been reading my posts. Interestingly enough, you have been reading Kav’s though…The town reads are laughable. Tnkted is nowhere near town. His PbP on Mig is useless, and has pretty much no analysis in it. Comments on how he’s glad Coag supports GMarshal for mayor and DH for pardoner, rehashing the same points about assassin being a bad choice for office. Honestly, its getting old. People saying that assassin is a bad choice for office aren’t thinking about it. Of course on the surface, not town, no office! Is a nice mantra, but it doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. OriginalName is clearly lurking. Very few posts, keeps pointing to the fact that he’s busy in real life, but strangely seems to be well informed on the thread. Has a solid attachment to GMarshal and seems to have strong opinions that are backed up with either nonexistent or flimsy reasoning. OriginalName is classic red. As a Recap, DH > GMarshal. I will be lynching OriginalName if elected Mayor, and I ask you to do the same if you are the person who ends up with that power. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:49 Kavdragon wrote: Protact: Tnkted's plan was pro-town. Period. When was the last time that you looked at the voting thread? When was the last time you looked at this thread? Posting votes in this thread makes analysis much easier. There is absolutely no down side to it, and a definite up side. Not posting your vote should not be considered a scum tell as much as it should just be frowned upon. But it's not like it's going to be enforced, it's just something that will happen. When people start posting votes in here, people will start looking at people who don't, and ask them why. Stomping on that plan was anti-town, so it's one point in favor of Dr.H being scum. Next: You brushed aside my accusation that you could be red, saying that that applys to anyone. WRONG. You are the only person that has claimed assassin. You truly are a master of the pen, and i admire your ability to write convincingly, but you cannot defeat the logic that It would be worth it to get one mafia into one of the seats, even if they die. One of the easiest ways to do that is to get someone who is good at the game to claim Assassin. Based on that alone, i don't think that you should be considered for office. Lastly, you are correct in assuming that I have not read all, or even two of your games. I didn't have the time to do it, but I'm sure as hell not going to let that stop me from analyzing your play. I've talke to vets who have played with you, so I have do have some idea of your play. To those who say I'm posting stuff that's obvious so that I can say I'm pro town Don't you think that if i were mafia, I'd have realized that since everyone is saying that it's not buying me pro-town points, and stopped doing it? Why would mafia put so much effort into something that has been explained several times as NOT being something that will earn you pro-town points? Sometimes I can make mistakes as well. I didn't even bother to read the part about DrH since it doesn't have anything to do with me, and I was talking about this, which is an actual "plan" that tnkted proposed and DrH shot down. Posting votes in "both threads" isn't a plan, and thus I didn't treat it as one. I like how you jump at the smallest things though. Got nothing real to say? Stop contriving things that don't exist. I'm not Mafia, and we've already explained why. Your statement doesn't prove that I'm Mafia, and you yourself have said before that you just look at good players in suspicion without just cause. On March 18 2011 08:15 Kavdragon wrote: I think this has to do with a problem that many people, especially newer players (guilty as charged) view veteran players. Hopefully Ver will bring it up in his analysis, but my argument is this: People think that older veteran "elite" players are gods. They think that they are always right, and that they always push scum. It's just not true, Ver pushed for Jbright, and several other town players before he pushed scum. Sure, they are better, and that skill needs to be considered, but they make mistakes too. This is a mistake I made in XXXVI, when I pressured RoL for not being very active or helpful. I expected him to be really active, catching scum left and right, and when I saw him playing a bored townie, I thought he was scum. If we can rid ourselves of these unrealistic expectations, I believe that veteran life spans would be longer, and we would get more vets playing. Yes, but I feel that that is treating the symptoms, not taking care of the problem. You're doing it again. Stop thinking too much of me, and stop running in circles yourself. As for the part of your statement that I've bolded, it's WiFOM. I don't care if you are or aren't Mafia from that, but what you're posting doesn't do anything for the game. If you want to show that you can write general advice, put it in another thread. Better yet, just link people to what the "vets" have in the analysis guides already made. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
Town. WTF. Where are all these emotional outbursts coming from? Almost all of the FoS's that have come out so far this game have been ridiculous, targeted at new players for not posting enough, or not reading properly, or acting like typical newbie players. DrH, some throwing accusations at people like they're candy. Read up, gather some information, and present it in a big large wall of text like everyone else does. Theres a reason we do it that way. Now, for newbies, you might not know who you should be listening to in this game if you're green (which you probably are since its your first game). You want to be listening to people with calm, levelheaded opinions, who have put a fair amount of thought and effort into their posts. You can tell these people by the amount that they post and the sheer quality of their posts. Spammers are generally not that helpful for analytic purposes. Here's my list of people that should be your role models, town or not town. This is how good mafia players behave in thread: Kita GM Protract ON Lanaia Kav myself (  )and urashimakt is doing pretty good too, for a newbie. There are a few other players that are doing well, but those 7 are the ones you should pay attention to when they post. Keep in mind that you should be reading their stuff with an open mind; feel free to challenge them where you think they are acting scummy, but rather then throw out an FoS (which is a fairly serious, formal accusation in this forum and is currently being abused to great extent) simply point out their scummy play. If you want to post an FoS make sure you've done your research; big posts with lots of quotes and analysis are what we're after. Putting effort into your posts is what makes you town. My analysis on Tracestorm is incoming. | ||
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tnkted
United States1359 Posts
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
I guess i missed it if your posting anaylsis ill be looking forward to reading it. | ||
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