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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 15 2011 22:27 bumatlarge wrote: Now was it just me or was LSB really scummy until the KP thing/he shot me? I had the same exact thought process as barundar and we were both town. He wasn't as much scummy as he was insane. Bait and switch my ass.  | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 15 2011 23:15 Jackal58 wrote: He wasn't as much scummy as he was insane. Bait and switch my ass. What gave me away btw? Process of elimination? Apart from that, I hate being mafia.  I'm just bad at lying and manipulating etc. I have much more fun as town. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On March 15 2011 23:26 deconduo wrote: I'm just bad at lying and manipulating etc. At least you finally realize that. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
That's why I'm saying, the next time I get mafia I'll be super straight forward and never hesitate to throw someone in the pit if they get caught (I mean, the whole argument on me started on the JBright lynch, which didn't even make sense since town didn't know he was green until we shot him). I tried at various points to do bits of mind-games like going after JBright after fighting in the thread and claiming he could be red, going after people who said "if I die, kill cube", but that didn't seem AT ALL suspicious for the town. If I were indeed town, and mafia would've done that specifically so that you lynch me, I would've gone down just as fast with no way of clearing myself. The same happened one or two games ago when people lynched BrownBear. It was abundantly clear that there's no way he's red, seeing the way he reacted when he was about to die, but nobody cared, he was on the list of the more dominant players so he was killed either way. So yeah, I feel that the main issue with TL mafia is people who lose interest if they get townie. They just come in, post random stuff and hop on a bus, and don't even bother to come with their own thoughts or opinions. I mean, look at GM, he was wrong all the time, there's no way he was red. He was simply too silly to have had inside information. (no offense, really), but nobody questioned it in the thread when he was brought up as suspicious. Same goes with many others. If you join a game, you should play it, and there should be more severe punishments on those who post once a day to keep alive and such. Lurkers ruin the game. Oh, and we always thought that we kept missing blues, because if we knew there was just one medic and one vet, then all the big names would've obviously went down during the first 2-3 nights. | ||
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Qatol
United States3165 Posts
1. The mafia KP. RoL and Meapak made a mistake in this department. We never ever try to have the first mafia death affect the mafia's KP. However, in this game, mafia had 4 kills when the game started, but lost one of them when Annul was lynched. Mafia is a stalling game for the mafia. They don't care if they get found out as long as they can take down the town faster than the town can kill them. This means it is especially important for mafia to keep their members alive early in the game. Don't go out and sacrifice your whole team to protect one member from getting lynched, but you basically donated that first KP to the town this game. 2. Later lynches matter more than early ones do. I assume that the reasoning behind the Annul lynch was so most of the scum could look "pro-town." The problem is that if you want to keep this pro-townieness, you have to turn yourself into a town leader and consistently lead the town to scum lynches! Otherwise, the town gets to thinking "if this person was such a good scum hunter, why haven't they been hit by the mafia yet?" Also, as other mafia get caught, it becomes easier for the town to figure out what you were doing, assuming they go back and read the early parts of the thread. Leading the town to scum in the mid-late game is a lot stronger because 1. people remember that better than trying to remember what happened in the early game, and 2. there are less nights where you have to make an excuse about why you weren't killed. My only other comment for right now is about the night kill on the last night. I think deconduo really should have done one of two things, neither of which involved shooting why: 1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one. 2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that). | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 15 2011 23:26 deconduo wrote: What gave me away btw? Process of elimination? Apart from that, I hate being mafia. I'm just bad at lying and manipulating etc. I have much more fun as town.This one put you on my radar. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=8099885 And to be fair a couple pages later LD revisited it as well. Made no sense. It was a non issue. The only people that are going to make an issue out of a non issue are people that need issues. That's the mafia team. Or politicians. This post is the one that did you in. Now bare in mind that at this point I was seriously undecided between you and why. This post in and of itself didn't do much for me until 2 posts later. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=8234195 This was why's post. It was so pro town you could have had a parade for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=8234411 Then I went back and looked at yours again and realized no pro townie player would ever say kp didn't matter. I sent you a PM shortly after that. If GM would have responded to my PM it wouldn't have mattered who you guys hit from then on out. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On March 16 2011 01:25 Jackal58 wrote: I sent you a PM shortly after that. If GM would have responded to my PM it wouldn't have mattered who you guys hit from then on out. What PM? The only PM i got near the endgame was from why... | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
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GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote: 1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one. 2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that). Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. | ||
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 16 2011 01:35 GMarshal wrote: *checks inbox* nope, the last PM I have from you is right after your fight with gryff, out of curiosity what did the PM say? It's not in my sent messages either. I know I wrote it. Somebody may have gotten an oddly worded PM from me. Basically it said stay active and talk to me. I have a plan. Dammit I know I wrote it. I just don't know who got it. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 16 2011 02:20 Jackal58 wrote: It's not in my sent messages either. I know I wrote it. Somebody may have gotten an oddly worded PM from me. Basically it said stay active and talk to me. I have a plan. Dammit I know I wrote it. I just don't know who got it. Oh, that wasn't intended for me? From: Jackal58 [ 829 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: TL Mafia XXXVII Date: 3/10/11 13:39 Hey baby, I just can't stop thinking about you. My heart skips a beat whenever you talk to me. Why don't you stop by my place tonight? I have a "plan", if you know what I mean. | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 16 2011 02:35 aidnai wrote: damnit jackal i think you just made it into the epic mafia quotes thread How did I manage that? | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On March 16 2011 02:31 kitaman27 wrote: Oh, that wasn't intended for me? Gman is gonna get jealous and kick both our asses. | ||
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PsYchOFisH
8 Posts
On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote: Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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