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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On March 16 2011 03:58 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Kita, didn't I also send you a PM accidentally this game?
Don't play hard to get. Its pretty clear that was no accident.
From: RebirthOfLeGenD [ 3213 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: TL Mafia XXXVII
Date: 3/11/11 32:13
sup kita,
Looking for a good time? Me and my smurf might be able to teach you a thing or two.
If you're lucky, I might even up your kp, if you know what I mean.
On March 16 2011 04:28 bumatlarge wrote:
Wow kita you slut I thought we had something special
I have needs. You'll come back for me. You always do.
*hides before getting banned for derailing a legitimate thread
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Never thought I'd see psychofish posting again....
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On March 16 2011 03:57 PsYchOFisH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote:On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote:
1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one.
2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that).
Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates.
Its quite difficult to figure out what people are actually going to vote for, since townies often misrepresent their actual views in late game like this. Look at Jackal and all these people saying in thread that deconduo was almost sure town while in PMs they were thinking otherwise. As mafia its going to be hard for you to have them leak that information to you, because, well, they suspect you. No reason to let you know that though, especially at late game. Its just tough overall.
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On March 16 2011 05:56 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 03:57 PsYchOFisH wrote:On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote:On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote:
1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one.
2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that).
Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates. Its quite difficult to figure out what people are actually going to vote for, since townies often misrepresent their actual views in late game like this. Look at Jackal and all these people saying in thread that deconduo was almost sure town while in PMs they were thinking otherwise. As mafia its going to be hard for you to have them leak that information to you, because, well, they suspect you. No reason to let you know that though, especially at late game. Its just tough overall.
That's a pretty important point. I remember specifically saying in the thread that I thought he was town and annul wasn't a bus, but barundar was the only one I REALLY felt was town. I'm also afraid to PM gmarshal because I've never seen him play scum :X MAYBE HES INCREDI-SCUM
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On March 16 2011 03:57 PsYchOFisH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote:On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote:
1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one.
2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that).
Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates.
I had three different people tell me to be quiet and to vote for decon at the end.
Even if he had pmed me i probobaly would not have responded. I trusted why and jackal and when both had died as nonscum i knew decon was scum. So i knew i was not going to change my vote
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On March 16 2011 05:44 Foolishness wrote:
Never thought I'd see psychofish posting again....
You barely saw me post in the first place! You killed me with a net total of 3 posts!
On March 16 2011 05:56 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 03:57 PsYchOFisH wrote:On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote:On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote:
1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one.
2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that).
Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates. Its quite difficult to figure out what people are actually going to vote for, since townies often misrepresent their actual views in late game like this. Look at Jackal and all these people saying in thread that deconduo was almost sure town while in PMs they were thinking otherwise. As mafia its going to be hard for you to have them leak that information to you, because, well, they suspect you. No reason to let you know that though, especially at late game. Its just tough overall.
And this is exactly why I think the better move was to not kill anyone the last night and see how the players reacted.
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On March 16 2011 07:45 PsYchOFisH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 05:44 Foolishness wrote:
Never thought I'd see psychofish posting again.... You barely saw me post in the first place! You killed me with a net total of 3 posts! Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 05:56 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2011 03:57 PsYchOFisH wrote:On March 16 2011 01:48 deconduo wrote:On March 16 2011 00:16 Qatol wrote:
1. Shoot kevconsim. Before deconduo submitted the hit list, people were already starting to use the argument "annul wouldn't have allowed X to be godfather." This argument surely applied to kevconsim. You want viable lynch targets in LYLO. He wasn't one.
2. Consider not hitting anyone at all (role reverse yourself or something). Maybe even claim veteran to increase your townie cred if it isn't incompatible with what you have done earlier. It's LYLO whether you hit someone or not. Unless you are worried that 2 townies will be stubborn and vote for you no matter what, and the 3rd townie will vote for you just to make sure someone gets lynched, you get more lynch targets this way. Obviously a deadlock doesn't help you as much, but you get a better feel for your allies (which it looks like you needed because I don't think you realized kevconsim was going to come out against you like that).
Both of these were on my mind, but I decided against them. 1. Plan was to lynch GMarshal with kev's support. There was a pretty good case against him, and I think it would have worked if it wasn't for Why+Jackal's secret messages. I was pretty sure that why would vote me at that point, so I felt eliminating the threat was more important. 2. I was tempted to no kill and claim hit myself. If Cubed was godfather I would have done it straight away. However, why would GF not roleblock his kill target with the extra .5KP? If someone realised this I was sunk. Simply no killing might have worked too, but I felt it was too risky. Again, I didn't realise that kev was going to vote me no matter what the next day. With the information I had, convincing him to vote GMarshal over me should have been much more viable. With Why alive, it would turn into me vs him, and I'd essentially need to convince both GMarshal and kev to vote with me against him. Okay I'm glad to hear that these were on your mind. I just feel like there should have been SOME way to figure out how GMarshal and Kevconsim would vote before you had to choose who to hit. I think you would have won if you had known either that GMarshal would have voted Why over you or if you had known that Kevconsim was 100% going to vote for you. Maybe that's a mistake of not poking around in the thread or via PMs enough, either by you or by your teammates. Its quite difficult to figure out what people are actually going to vote for, since townies often misrepresent their actual views in late game like this. Look at Jackal and all these people saying in thread that deconduo was almost sure town while in PMs they were thinking otherwise. As mafia its going to be hard for you to have them leak that information to you, because, well, they suspect you. No reason to let you know that though, especially at late game. Its just tough overall. And this is exactly why I think the better move was to not kill anyone the last night and see how the players reacted.
If you waited then you had why and me vs deconduo
with gmarshal being the deciding vote and im pretty sure he trusted why
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first. im posting from a kindle so forgive the lack of punctuation and capitalization. at least my spelling should be alright...
second. please dont make us wait much longer for the analysis ver and whoever else is going to chime in. aces game is getting ready to start and when it does it will be harder to maintain focus on this game and the lessons to be learned.
third. some specific questions and comments about this game. seriously the best thing about the town this game was not lyncing the vocal town leaders. foolishness seemed sketchy to me in the thread and by day three when he was still alive i know i woulda gone after him. was the lack of pressure there due to pm land or what?
also, last argument aka bc what kind of exemplary play were you trying to show us? it must have been pms or something... you claiming vet when there was no way mafia hit you and then lsb getting involved... up until coag and jackal came out and the mod confirmed the kp thing i was convinced you two were scum. incidentally i would have voted to lynch lsb first despite being more certain about la the day before...
lsb got into arguments with barundar chaoser and deconduo where lsb repeatedly used poor logic or failed to address points against himself and just overall used quantity of words rather than quality. compounded with the obvious lies later (claiming to hit la when he was up for lynch next and barundar was still alive) i would not have hesitated to hang him. it still boggles me that that situation resolved with confirmed townies and dead scum...
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp
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it still boggles me that that situation resolved with confirmed townies and dead scum...
Cause LSB got confirmed ;_; If he had been lynched, his whole circle would have been killed that night and then mafia would have probably won the game
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On March 18 2011 02:41 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +it still boggles me that that situation resolved with confirmed townies and dead scum... Cause LSB got confirmed ;_; If he had been lynched, his whole circle would have been killed that night and then mafia would have probably won the game
I know. I told him if he tried to defend LA he would be lynched. He did it anyways.
So I pulled my 10 reasons why LSB wasn't scum outta my ass and laid it on the table. We simply got lucky. I think if decon had continued to push for LSB instead of voting for you you guys would have won. I have no idea why you guys bought what I was selling. Half of you were convinced Coag and LSB were scum. You could have easily thrown me in with them too. Although when Coag or LSB flipped I hoped we would have still had enough time to pull it all back together.
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On March 18 2011 04:08 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 02:41 chaoser wrote:it still boggles me that that situation resolved with confirmed townies and dead scum... Cause LSB got confirmed ;_; If he had been lynched, his whole circle would have been killed that night and then mafia would have probably won the game I know. I told him if he tried to defend LA he would be lynched. He did it anyways. So I pulled my 10 reasons why LSB wasn't scum outta my ass and laid it on the table. We simply got lucky. I think if decon had continued to push for LSB instead of voting for you you guys would have won. I have no idea why you guys bought what I was selling. Half of you were convinced Coag and LSB were scum. You could have easily thrown me in with them too. Although when Coag or LSB flipped I hoped we would have still had enough time to pull it all back together.
At the point I left for my birthday party (two hours left in the day) I really thought it was pretty much settled and I left with no worries. If I had stayed maybe we could have salvaged better.
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On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
second. please dont make us wait much longer for the analysis ver and whoever else is going to chime in. aces game is getting ready to start and when it does it will be harder to maintain focus on this game and the lessons to be learned.
We're working on it, I promise!
On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp
There is a reason Ace has been saying "players are more important than roles" for literally years now. A blue role makes a player stronger for that game, but it won't necessarily let that player close the skill gap between themselves and someone like Ver. Something to consider when mafia are picking night kills in the future.
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On March 18 2011 04:22 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:08 Jackal58 wrote:On March 18 2011 02:41 chaoser wrote:it still boggles me that that situation resolved with confirmed townies and dead scum... Cause LSB got confirmed ;_; If he had been lynched, his whole circle would have been killed that night and then mafia would have probably won the game I know. I told him if he tried to defend LA he would be lynched. He did it anyways. So I pulled my 10 reasons why LSB wasn't scum outta my ass and laid it on the table. We simply got lucky. I think if decon had continued to push for LSB instead of voting for you you guys would have won. I have no idea why you guys bought what I was selling. Half of you were convinced Coag and LSB were scum. You could have easily thrown me in with them too. Although when Coag or LSB flipped I hoped we would have still had enough time to pull it all back together. At the point I left for my birthday party (two hours left in the day) I really thought it was pretty much settled and I left with no worries. If I had stayed maybe we could have salvaged better.
I wasn't disappointed that you left. This game has a very intangible element of luck involved in it.
Why's post regarding voting with LSB and myself is a good example of luck at work. If he would have made it an hour later instead of right below decon's post regarding nk I may never have been able to discern decon as definite scum team. Was just dumb luck.
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United States2186 Posts
On March 18 2011 04:46 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
second. please dont make us wait much longer for the analysis ver and whoever else is going to chime in. aces game is getting ready to start and when it does it will be harder to maintain focus on this game and the lessons to be learned.
We're working on it, I promise! Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp There is a reason Ace has been saying "players are more important than roles" for literally years now. A blue role makes a player stronger for that game, but it won't necessarily let that player close the skill gap between themselves and someone like Ver. Something to consider when mafia are picking night kills in the future.
It will be done by today.
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On March 18 2011 04:46 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp There is a reason Ace has been saying "players are more important than roles" for literally years now. A blue role makes a player stronger for that game, but it won't necessarily let that player close the skill gap between themselves and someone like Ver. Something to consider when mafia are picking night kills in the future.
I don't think Ver et al would appreciate your attempt to get them killed day 1 every single game again. They've been having a pretty good day 1 survival rate in the past games, no thanks to you!
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smurfing helps with day one survival.
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On March 18 2011 06:53 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 04:46 Qatol wrote:On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp There is a reason Ace has been saying "players are more important than roles" for literally years now. A blue role makes a player stronger for that game, but it won't necessarily let that player close the skill gap between themselves and someone like Ver. Something to consider when mafia are picking night kills in the future. I don't think Ver et al would appreciate your attempt to get them killed day 1 every single game again. They've been having a pretty good day 1 survival rate in the past games, no thanks to you!
I think this has to do with a problem that many people, especially newer players (guilty as charged) view veteran players. Hopefully Ver will bring it up in his analysis, but my argument is this: People think that older veteran "elite" players are gods. They think that they are always right, and that they always push scum.
It's just not true, Ver pushed for Jbright, and several other town players before he pushed scum. Sure, they are better, and that skill needs to be considered, but they make mistakes too.
This is a mistake I made in XXXVI, when I pressured RoL for not being very active or helpful. I expected him to be really active, catching scum left and right, and when I saw him playing a bored townie, I thought he was scum.
If we can rid ourselves of these unrealistic expectations, I believe that veteran life spans would be longer, and we would get more vets playing.
On March 18 2011 07:57 aidnai wrote:
smurfing helps with day one survival.
Yes, but I feel that that is treating the symptoms, not taking care of the problem.
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well kav when i get back next week would you rather i treat your symptoms or your problems?
on topic. i thought we were talking about vets being nked not lynched. qatol pointed out mafia should have killed ser aspi once they saw he was a strong analyst. incog pointed out that policy nks for vets may be smart but...where is the fun. well, train the medics to protect vets night one. smurfing also helps.
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On March 18 2011 08:15 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 06:53 Incognito wrote:On March 18 2011 04:46 Qatol wrote:On March 18 2011 01:45 aidnai wrote:
last thing... holy hell that was an awesome display of scumhunting from the vets. killing an op scum team with only lynches and no dt...geezus gg wp There is a reason Ace has been saying "players are more important than roles" for literally years now. A blue role makes a player stronger for that game, but it won't necessarily let that player close the skill gap between themselves and someone like Ver. Something to consider when mafia are picking night kills in the future. I don't think Ver et al would appreciate your attempt to get them killed day 1 every single game again. They've been having a pretty good day 1 survival rate in the past games, no thanks to you! I think this has to do with a problem that many people, especially newer players (guilty as charged) view veteran players. Hopefully Ver will bring it up in his analysis, but my argument is this: People think that older veteran "elite" players are gods. They think that they are always right, and that they always push scum. It's just not true, Ver pushed for Jbright, and several other town players before he pushed scum. Sure, they are better, and that skill needs to be considered, but they make mistakes too. This is a mistake I made in XXXVI, when I pressured RoL for not being very active or helpful. I expected him to be really active, catching scum left and right, and when I saw him playing a bored townie, I thought he was scum. If we can rid ourselves of these unrealistic expectations, I believe that veteran life spans would be longer, and we would get more vets playing. Yes, but I feel that that is treating the symptoms, not taking care of the problem.
Yeah the thing its more that you have to make your mind up on each player individually. For example, in my opinion BC was nowhere near as good as his press for quite a while (he improved a lot in the last 6 months or so). And performances can vary from game to game. But when that player starts to look like they're on their game, mafia should start to get worried.
And it isn't even a matter of experience or senority. There are definitely players who have not played much which would be in this category for me, and a lot of older players which are not in this category.
The solution I want to see for this problem is for more people to care enough to put effort into getting better so the skill gaps aren't so big that this hit strategy makes practical sense.
And as for the hits, it's a fine line, but I think the mafia should have gone after Ser Aspi after he caught Seraph.
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Several of the mafia hits created wtf moments for me and others.
I still don't know why LSB wasn't killed with Coag. Why hit LA then? I was still quite undecided on his alignment. Some of those hits actually made it easier on town to narrow down the red team.
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EPT
