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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
Orgo the last fucking thing mafia are gonna do is get into a pissing contest with a confirmed blue running for mayor. how stupid would you be to go against like the entire town? its not hard to figure out that the entire scum team had no choice but to support bum Might as well try to look as pro town about it as possible considering you have no other choice. | ||
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orgolove
Vatican City State1650 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
you have got to be either scum or missing the whole story. | ||
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orgolove
Vatican City State1650 Posts
On March 28 2011 14:32 Coagulation wrote: how stupid would you be to go against like the entire town? At the time, only 6 players were for him. Several players, including annul, confirmed green, and me (green) and I think 1 other person were strongly questioning whether it was wise to trust someone who slipped critical information so early in the game with the job of a mayor. | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
You didnt have anything to hide of course you wouldnt worry about questioning him. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 28 2011 14:30 orgolove wrote: I'm going off of last reasonable information I remember. I have not yet had a chance to read over the other 50 pages of posts, but still want to contribute. I'm just bringing into discussion the fact that he so strongly supported the clear blue even before most of the town was for him, and further made a lot of high information posts - all pretty strong contra-indicators of scum. WTF...who does that...that's like saying I don't play this game. But I'll try to contribute. Townie would never want to contribute without knowing the full details, much less say they don't know the full details but want to make sense of things. How the fuck do you make sense of things without knowing what things are in the first place? Also, in regards to the "he so strongly supported the clear blue": 1) Coag's post about bum being pretty much confirmed blue. 2) Not to mention all the stuff he says has been said before. Either by me or by tons of other people who were talking about the election why before he did. He adds a cute little list in the front, which mafia like to do under the guise of "organizing info" which gives us no new info. He doesn't do a single piece of analysis on anyone in the game till Jackal comes out and says TACK YOU IS MAFIA! after which he gets into an argument with them. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
1. Steal =/= Scum First off I don't understand how stealing from Jackal makes me scummy. I do not want to get shot at night and do not want town to lose the item game no matter if i'm green or red. So if there is a chance i'm going to get shot I of course am going to try and stop that happening. Now I mentioned MANY times that I thought I would get shot by Jackal. It makes sense for me as town to try and steal his gun to stop this happening. The fact that he wasn't the shooter doesn't change anything either. By jackals argument if I was green should I have let myself get shot or something? What would any other green do in my position? Anyway I did steal from Jackal - here is what I got: From: LSB Banking Subject: Item Game Date: 3/28/11 11:13 Success You got Jackal's Item! Current Items Mood Ring- Hmmmm, a mood ring? You can use the Mood ring to investigate another player’s alignment during the night. Bandages- Yay Medic! You got Bandages. You can use it protect someone at night, including yourself! 2. No one is confirmed My next point is that the other three cannot have confirmed each other. It has been stated very clearly that LemonWalrus is cleared only through Coagulations say so. More to the point jackal claimed this as his plan: Coag I have a plan. Here it is. 1 I make a post claiming you I and LW are town. 2 We lynch one of the other 3. 3 If he's red it's going to take longer to win IG. 4If he's green it's going to take much longer. 5 If he's black we win IG on night 2 6 I claim I have gun repeatedly. 7 I create shit storm around me to find who defends scum who doesn't End of part 1 8 Annul quit game. 9 We all use our items. 10 Tack steal from me. 11 Coag shoots Tack If it wasn't for those damn meddling kids in their bus we would have pulled it off flawlessly. Now we have to use a lynch. In this plan there is the assumption that Jackal/Coag/Lemon are green. Given that it covers 'one of the other three' this must be a post from before I was officially FOSsed by Jackal which means that there was NO WAY for these three to confirm each other. Now last night: 1. Jackal has his non-checking item stolen 2. Coag used his non-checking item 3. Lemon used his non-checking item Now let me remind you that Coag and Jackal had a plan to confirm each other. This plan seemed to exclude Lemon. That automatically means this plan isn't foolproof as Lemon has never been confirmed. But we all know that anyway. The only way that Coag and Jackal can confirm each other is if addition to their items they have both have alignment checking roles (how unlikely is that?). But even if they have roles then because Coag was bussed he couldn't possibly confirm Jackal as his check would be on me. Btw if he did check me he'd see I was green and this would all drop which is just more evidence but that is only my POV. Therefore I feel this is EXTREMELY STRONG EVIDENCE that Coag and Jackal have in no way confirmed each other. At best Jackal may have confirmed coag with his miracle role-checking role that 4 of 6 IG players don't have… If Coag and Jackal don't confirm each other then this definitely throws all of their 'plans' and 'conclusions' into doubt. 3. My scum team bussing Annul is stupid Apparently if I am scum and my team bus Coags shot onto Annul then that 100% confirms me as scum. If that is the case this is a TERRIBLE plan for mafia. Why do something so obvious? I can see an argument there for what else should I as scum have done. Here it is: Why would I bus to annul? Annul claimed he was out of the game and outed his item power which affects me NOT AT ALL. If bussing annul makes it so certain that I am scum then I may as well bus to Lemon. That way I stop him from using his item, kill a 'cleared' player and still don't have to worry about the afk annul affecting me in any way. Bussing a shot to annul seems like a shitty choice. If mafia did shoot annul why would i bus to the player my team shot? [b]How stupid is that?[b] Bum says he has info on that but as nothing has been outed I leave this point open. Red has an interest in the item game and black doesn't. It makes sense that the kill on GMarshall was therefore by black. That uses up all their KP so I imagine all the stuff in the item game was blue/red/green. Just reinforcing the previous point. When I stole from Jackal it was in hopes he had the gun. The fact that coag was bussed doesn't mean i'm in cahoots. The chances that would happen are only 50/50. Scum could easily have chosen to bus Jackal. While I know it doesn't help my case it doesn't 100% confirm it anyway. FMPOV it only shows scum reads better than me  Or does it? 4. Jackal can easily be mafia. Remember: - no one is confirmed - Jackal made up the plan - Jackal didn't have the gun If Jackal is red then it makes sense for him to urge Coag to shoot me, especially with how the day FOSses went. The scum comes up with a clever plan. If I die when i flip green Jackal is the obvious lynch. If instead scum busses coag onto Annul then this furore explodes where i need to be lynched. In this situation Jackal is on top - the bus makes me look scummy, he isn't shot by the weapon and coag accuses me. Any argument that it was better to steal the weapon fails on the fact that if the weapon is stolen the shot doesn't go through! Jackal was hoping I'd steal from him SO THAT THERE WOULD BE A SHOT. I will point out that the bus WAS on the shot. That makes it more likely (nowhere near confirmed but definitely more likely) that the person bussing knew who had the shot. Which is Jackal and not me. Now I admit it's possible that coagulation or lemon are scum. However for coag to shoot the person and bus himself is too alien to consider. For Lemon to be planning all this in his first game is possible given he has a PM circle - but seems unlikely. 5. The IG is in grave peril The IG is in peril of being lost. I assume and LSB can confirm me (I've said this before like 3 times at least) that the last player standing chronologically wins his team the items. So making the assumption I'm green: - I get lynched and flip green - scum use their 2 KP to kill the other greens - Red is last one standing and therefore red team get the items Remember even if red dies so long as he is last to die his team wins the items. Now I know we have medics. And I know that Lemon has (or claims) a vest. But we don't know what roles are out there. Jackal can steal Lemons vest to stop it working. Scum may be able to nerf abilities or multi-shoot. It's all unknown. This is a very perilous situation and we need to put in hard work to not lose the hours we've put into trying to win this mini-game. --- I also have a sub point here about Lemons vest. The items list we have is: 1) A Role Checker 2) An Alignment Checker 3) A bomb (potato) 4) A gun 5) A medic style item 6) A medic style item This is insane mafia. Even though 2 of the other items are similar they are not identical. So why do we have a vest and bandages that seem to do the same things? Is that likely? Of course my item can protect others where as Lemons possibly does not need to be used. Either way I'm saying this is a tentative point to analyze. Now to the conclusions: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. Please read through this. Mention any fallacies. Appreciate any truths. Jackal/Coag when you start screaming about these points in ALL CAPS could you also mention concrete reasons for why anything I've said was wrong. P.S. As you can see instead of sleeping I have spent the night awake. I have classes I can't miss today and work to do this afternoon. So I probes won't start posting again after i go to uni for about 12 hours. And needing sleep I may not be on long tonight. I'm not lurking - I just unfortunately have a life | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
3. My scum team bussing Annul is stupid Apparently if I am scum and my team bus Coags shot onto Annul then that 100% confirms me as scum. If that is the case this is a TERRIBLE plan for mafia. Why do something so obvious? ARE YOU SERIOUS? SCUM IS GONNA PROTECT YOU BECAUSE ITS BETTER YOUR ALIVE AND SUSPICIOUS THAN DEAD AND OUT OF THE GAME. ITS AN ALL IN. SCUM HAD NO CHOICE. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 28 2011 14:46 Coagulation wrote: ARE YOU SERIOUS? SCUM IS GONNA PROTECT YOU BECAUSE ITS BETTER YOUR ALIVE AND SUSPICIOUS THAN DEAD AND OUT OF THE GAME. ITS AN ALL IN. SCUM HAD NO CHOICE. But i explained the better option underneath Mr. All Caps. The only way what happened is a better option is to scum me up... You're basing everything on your UNFOUNDED trust on Jackal. And you refuse to even consider alternatives... C'mon man try an be pro town please! | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
Now to the conclusions: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other Your in no way confirmed either Moot point. Not to mention I STILL have the ability to CONFIRM JACKAL after we lynch you. Another moot point because he will be confirmed when you flip red 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. Ok fantastic this doesnt help you at all. 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it Ok but how does this prove your green in the slightest.. you have given 0 information for town to attempt to work with. you just repeat over and over jackal could be scum. thats fantastic why dont you try coming up with a plan like jackal did why dont you try dumping information that town wants to know in the thread like jackal did. 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered your mafia teams chance at getting the items are in peril 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. Yes stealing the item makes you scummy. you had been PMing annul about wanting to steal an item long before anyone mentioned a gun. your arguments again do nothing to make you look green and is purely based on "im innocent omg" | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
By jackals argument if I was green should I have let myself get shot or something? What would any other green do in my position? Yes. You would want to get shot. Why? Cause if you flipped green, it'd be 1/4 chances of catching mafia in the item game. Since annul got shot, it would be 1/3 chance. You not dying made today be about you v Jackal again. If you had died, it would have been Jackal on the chopping block since it was his plan. Or we start looking at LW. If I was in your situation, I would have used my item to check Jackal or maybe LW, not steal some shit. Townies don't care much for living, only that they can somehow help town win. 2. No one is confirmed No one is ever confirmed unless they're dead. There's no such thing as confirmation of alignment, even DTs can be insane and give wrong reads. The fact of the matter is, Jackal came out and FoS-ed you. His actions compared to your actions, in my head, shows that he is more town then you are. His plan makes sense while you haven't done a single thing for town. Your posts have been basically copies of other people's posts, and until Jackal FoSed you, you didn't give a single FoS or analysis of anyone else. You merely defended Bum's blueness, you didn't even call out annul as scum. Why would I bus to annul? Annul claimed he was out of the game and outed his item power which affects me NOT AT ALL. Annul was pretty much going to be read as town. RoL's stupid little gambit worked and annul's reaction was that of a town thinking he was dead, not of mafia. Mafia take things to the grave on the off chance something they said gives shit away, townies don't. That being said, it's better to get rid of a green that everyone knows is a green and then try to argue against someone who is less "confirmed" like Jackal. 4. Jackal can easily be mafia. 5. The IG is in grave peril So making the assumption I'm green: - I get lynched and flip green - scum use their 2 KP to kill the other greens - Red is last one standing and therefore red team get the items Not true and a contradiction, if anything, I feel like IG is going to be won by town if both statements are true. It's just whether we have three confirmed townies or one. If you are green, you get lynched, it's 1 red, 2 green. We got medics, LW got a vest. If Jackal really is red like you said, then all we have to do is chill out, and tell LW to protect. It's a passive vest that makes him bullet proof. Mafia can't shoot into that shit. Black is lynched so he can't be black. Next day, we lynch Jackal. BOOM. Town wins IG. Do I win a prize? Bum, can I get some Batman lovin'? | ||
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
If jackal was scum he woulda stole my gun. HES NOT GONNA LET AN EXTRA KP SIT IN TOWNS HAND WHEN HE HAS AN OPEN OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE IT. same goes with Lemon He obviosly opted to let the gun sit in the hands of someone he thinks is town. IT Doesnt get more pro town than that. Sorry tackster GG you did well and im glad you came to play with us and i hope you play again but you have been caught. | ||
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Lanaia
Canada1142 Posts
1. RebirthOfLeGenD 2. Jackal58** 3. OriginalName = Honestly, this is more a gutread than anything. 4. Kenpachi - Can't get a full read on this guy. 5. deconduo 6. Kavdragon 8. bumatlarge 10. Coagulation** 11. orgolove - Pretty much admitted to not even reading 50 pages. Town wouldn't do that. (likely) 12. chaoser 13. Meapak_Ziphh - The few posts this guy has aren't necessarily a good addition to town. 15. kevconsim - I don't understand his play, he's being silly. 16. Mr. Wiggles 17. CubEdIn 18. GGQ 19. ilovejonn 20. Amber[LighT] - Amber's getting everyone mixed up and I can't make sense of a lot of their posts. 21. BrownBear - Generally just doesn't seem town. [green]22. Lemonwalrus/[green]** 23. Rean 24. tnkted 25. Tackster ** - Your play has changed the more suspicion is put on you. Coag's last post actually says pretty much what I was going to say about you. 26. Lanaia - I know my own alignment. 27. iGrok - iGrok, as scum, I've noticed, you tend to lurk as you are now. I don't feel many things that you've said are a huge asset to town. Speak more. 28. Beneather 29. Insanious 30. Eiii bold or red (both is i'm not sure of which) = scum, green = townie/blue, italics = unsure. | ||
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Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 28 2011 14:57 Coagulation wrote: Now to the conclusions: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other Your in no way confirmed either Moot point. Not to mention I STILL have the ability to CONFIRM JACKAL after we lynch you. Another moot point because he will be confirmed when you flip red 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. Ok fantastic this doesnt help you at all. 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it Ok but how does this prove your green in the slightest.. you have given 0 information for town to attempt to work with. you just repeat over and over jackal could be scum. thats fantastic why dont you try coming up with a plan like jackal did why dont you try dumping information that town wants to know in the thread like jackal did. 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered your mafia teams chance at getting the items are in peril 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. Yes stealing the item makes you scummy. you had been PMing annul about wanting to steal an item long before anyone mentioned a gun. your arguments again do nothing to make you look green and is purely based on "im innocent omg" Ok Coag let's take this point by point: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other Your in no way confirmed either Moot point. Not to mention I STILL have the ability to CONFIRM JACKAL after we lynch you. Another moot point because he will be confirmed when you flip red - I believe I put forth strong evidence for my point. You are the one that has not put any evidence forward that you can confirm. - You say it is moot whether or not you guys are confirmed - that is simply not true for obvious reasons - Having the ability to confirm Jackal AFTER you lynch me is not a good reason to lynch me - The fact that you need me to flip red in fact makes it extremely non-moot 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. Ok fantastic this doesnt help you at all. - You're saying your quality of judgement does not affect town's choice to follow your lead? 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it Ok but how does this prove your green in the slightest.. you have given 0 information for town to attempt to work with. you just repeat over and over jackal could be scum. thats fantastic why dont you try coming up with a plan like jackal did why dont you try dumping information that town wants to know in the thread like jackal did. - First of all I have been analyzing all game and posting plenty of ideas on what strategies to use inside and outside of the item game. I in fact had a conversation in thread on whether we should all agree to steal, defend, use. I constantly PMd you to discuss strategy. You on the other have followed this 'plan' without giving any real information out ever or considering any other possibilities. - The fact Jackal can be scum implies I can be green. You never admit this and keep calling me 100% mafia - I have in fact been playing as pro-town as possible. I have given several reasons in the post you're quoting for why i'm not mafia such as the fact that if I was mafia I highlighted better plans to follow such as the one you mentioned just 2 posts ago 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered your mafia teams chance at getting the items are in peril - This isn't in fact a point just another stubborn claim 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. [b]Yes stealing the item makes you scummy. you had been PMing annul about wanting to steal an item long before anyone mentioned a gun. your arguments again do nothing to make you look green and is purely based on "im innocent omg" - I never once mentioned stealing an item to annul. Go prove it as I just checked my inbox and cant find anything near to that - I answered the second point earlier Now are you willing to make some real points? | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
4. Jackal can easily be mafia. 5. The IG is in grave peril So making the assumption I'm green: - I get lynched and flip green - scum use their 2 KP to kill the other greens - Red is last one standing and therefore red team get the items I meant to say that the two statements 4 and 5 are contradictions and can't both happen. If Jackal is Red then Town wins IG. If game is in peril then Jackal isn't Red. You are green - Jackal is Red - You get lynched: LW - Jackal - Coag left. LW got a vest. We got medics. Mafia wouldn't know who to bus, who to roleblock, who to hit. At most 1 of them will die since to kill any one of them you have to factor in medic and vest. Next day, we lynch Jackal. Town wins the IG. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I saw a few other things I wanted to comment on, but I forgot what they were while I was playing diplomacy. | ||
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kevconsim
United States317 Posts
On March 28 2011 15:07 Lanaia wrote: 15. kevconsim - I don't understand his play, he's being silly. bold or red (both is i'm not sure of which) = scum, green = townie/blue, italics = unsure. Can you explain why i am "being silly". | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On March 28 2011 15:11 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Coagulation, I think you are wrong about being the town KP. I think the town must have some other sort of KP independent of you. The IG is meant to reward whichever faction can win it, it doesn't make sense to shove the town's KP into the IG and put it up for grabs without the reds/blacks putting anything else up. I saw a few other things I wanted to comment on, but I forgot what they were while I was playing diplomacy. You are so useless...I hope you fail at diplomacy and get three way raped <3 | ||
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orgolove
Vatican City State1650 Posts
On March 28 2011 15:07 Lanaia wrote: 11. orgolove - Pretty much admitted to not even reading 50 pages. Town wouldn't do that. (likely) This is ridiculous. Did you not see the word yet? Where did I say that I am not going to read the past 50 pages? It's hard enough trying to find out the information among Coag's spam. But read over what I said carefully. Never did I say that I won't read the information. | ||
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