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On January 24 2011 08:49 Node wrote:
Yes. The rule of thumb is that for each person that dies, one clue is left. Of course, there is no guarantee that this will always be the case.
On January 21 2011 00:47 LSB wrote:
Besides the day 1 clue, clues will only be about people who was sent to do the kill. Due to fairness, not all SK kills will have clues associated with the SK
On January 23 2011 11:50 Node wrote:
A batch of clues pointing to the mafia / serial killers of this game will be posted in the day 1 post.
Can we get some clarification on what we know about the day 1 clues? I'm getting mixed messages. LSB said that he can't comment on who the clues point to on day 1, but Node says that they are pointing at SK and Mafia? Otherwise, almost all descriptions purposefully leave out anything about day 1. I'm guessing this is intentional, but can you tell me if the last quote above is still valid?
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kk, one more thing.
Will mafia be in control of who is sent out to kill, or will it be RNG'd?
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A word on policy: Should the Mason contact the mayor night one? This would ensure that masons survive the night, though it's unlikely that the mason, and his convertee are both killed. Other than that, the mayor would then be able to entrust any other information with the original mason. (For instance, my role, any information on blues I have, and vise versa.)
Note that while the Mason would be a confirmed townie, the mayor would not be confirmed. Thus the flow of information should only go to the mason, who should not pass it to anyone else unless extreme conditions warrant it. Perhaps with time, the mayor will build enough trust that he can be entrusted with information that the mason has, but I'm not going to assume that.
This seems the best plan to me, but I'm looking at it from the mayor's position. Anyone have any problems with this?
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On January 25 2011 13:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 10:45 SiNiquity wrote:On January 25 2011 10:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Yeah I'm good with your case against ON Kav, and you just made me feel a lot better about voting for you. However several people have voted for both you and RoL now and failed to give a reason for those votes. I'd like everyone to justify their votes in the thread for later reference. I voted for Kav because he seems like he's going to be a good, active mayor. Since he inadvertently started his campaign prior to the roles given out, the chances of him being mafia are as good as an RNG without any of the downsides. I liked RoL's long post, but it was too long overdue and not enough to persuade me. I remember a while ago they used to ban that in games. I guessed we stopped though. Running before the game started is stupid and doesn't give you shit to analyze. They can use it as a point of trust when they could of lucked their way into a strong mafia position.
Sorry, it was ignorance that lead me to announce my intention to run for mayor. I mistakenly thought that I wasn't supposed to start posting an official campaign till the game started. I see the mistake I made, and I'm genuinely sorry for it. For the record, it was origenally intended as a joke, but as I'll explain in a second, I decided to stick with it so that it would not fall into mafia hands.
As far as my plans revolving around the mayorship, let me explain my reasoning, however badly thought out it may be:
I have learned not to trust anything, except my role PM. I KNOW that I am town. The rest of you don't know that, but I do. I want the mayorship to be in townie hands, and the only guaranteed way that will happen is if I'm the one in that seat. Asking masons to recruit me first was an attempt to make sure that they survive, not a power play. As I pointed out when I suggested it, it was not an attempt to give more information to the mayor, but an attempt to get some of the eggs out of the mayor's basket, and into another confirmed townie's basket.
I realize that you cannot know that I am a townie, and thus you cannot support me trying to get in a more central role, so I will back down from my stance there, but know my reasoning for trying in the first place.
In general I'm putting ideas out there, and asking what people think of them. I'm not advocating all of them, but I know that I'm not going to catch every nuance of every little plan, so I put it out in the public.
I know that you can be a better player than me, RoL, I just don't KNOW that you are town. That's why I'm running against you, and not voting for you.
One last note, while I was the first person to vote, and I voted myself, I agree that it seems a bit untasteful for someone to vote for them self. Because of this, I'm going to switch my vote to you. Hopefully it won't cause too much confusion, and this way we can vote for eachother, and not mess up any vote counts.
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On January 25 2011 13:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:I don't believe in a mayor centered town obviously. That is stupid. I am going to try to encourage everyone to contribute and analyze because that is the only way we are going to win this game. We need to make people talk and make them slip up if they are not town aligned. The only reason I want to be mayor is so I have a longer period of time where I can try and make people contribute and attempt to be a voice of reason. So Amber, how are things? I find it interesting that you quick response my prod when I know you do 4 day work weeks at home and somehow don't really contribute much besides responding to that  Anyway, I am going to girlfriends for a few hours. When I get back you will all get more.
You are calling for more analysis, and less clue hunting, but as far as I can remember, I'm the only player who has done ANY analysis thus far... Back up your claims and post some analysis if you want me to take you seriously.
Two things that I should clarify:
My proposed lynch of OriginalName is based off of post analysis just as much as clue analysis.
I'm not giving up my run for mayor, I'm simply voting for someone other than myself.
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On January 25 2011 13:48 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I like your reasoning Kav all up until the bit about the mason's. By the mason joining with the mayor it is creating a circle so to speak which I believe is what will do us in. We can't have all our ideas coming from 2-3 people. I want everyone contributing and by creating a circle you destroy possibility of that. I don't approve of any plan that puts powerful people and powerful roles together when they can't be confirmed. It leads to players looking for guidance from those who they perceive as "knowing more".
I hadn't thought of the fact that people would be looking to me for the "good" ideas. I suppose that that's what comes with the mayorship, because people have voted you a capable player. It's really pretty obvious, but the idea of one person leading the town's decisions is such a bad/foreign idea to me that I didn't really consider it being exactly what could happen to a mayor.
On that subject, I strongly disagree with leaving any mayor the power to make large decisions. I would treat any mayor as a special townie. His opinion is not necessarily right, just like a confirmed townie is not necessarily right. You wouldn't vote me if you thought i was mafia, so just trust that I'm tying my best should I get into the mayorship. Do NOT take my word as some sort of upper authority. Like i said before, RoL, Dr.H, Amber, and others are capable of playing better than me. However none of them have really stepped out and shown good work, except for a few posts by RoL.
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Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them.
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On January 26 2011 01:24 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:35 Kavdragon wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them. Well, the mayor gets the most information out of all the town aligned players and therefore any plan relies on having that census information which only the mayor has access to. Also he is the only known player with a specific role. Of course by default, the mayor needs to be align checked right away to make sure we aren't getting mis-information. If the mayor is a townie though, then he is arguably the most powerful townie.
The mayor cannot be role checked, that's why we have to be careful of who we elect. The mayor will only get more information if he is censusing something other than mafia. If he's checking only mafia, then that information will be spread to the town, and he will not have any more information than anyone else.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to check the mafia count every night. But this can be discussed in the days to come, because I think everyone agrees that Mafia number should be the night 1 check, so that gives us till night 2 to decide.
Given that the day one clues point to "killers" including the vigilante, We have to consider the possibility of OriginalName being a vig. My post analysis would say that he is not, but I'm not positive what ON's behavior would be like if he were.
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EBWDP:
That being said, I'm still planing on lynching ON, as I think that he is the best lead we have, and he's lurking.
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On January 25 2011 02:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 01:39 darmousseh wrote:
Who should be volunteering as bodyguards? Those with blue abilities or just normal townies? Lol I don't think volunteering bodyguards based upon roles is a smart idea... IMO there is no real formula or requirement for who should be bodyguards. I think the idea of picking people and saying "well we need to protect these guys now" is bad as it's isolating the other 20+ people who could potentially be targets, because lets face it, mafia isn't going to stack kills to get at the mayor in the first 2 nights. Aside from the easy time it will be for townies to analyze players who discount the importance of bodyguards and the mayors role if the above plan was proposed, we are creating a narrow window of playstyle from the town that will end up costing us more hits at night than we want. IE- Risk is not worth the reward in this scenario. The mayoral candidates should also not consider the bodyguards as throwaway individuals. The candidates need to get their thinking caps on and pick players who are "almost targets." These would be the players that mafia _could_ target on night one. This could be because of posting habits. It could be because of personal "hatred" towards other players. It could be because killing these people will incite blame in someone else. You also have to think about the clues. Everyone's profile is full of information, so certain kills could be skewed towards a certain player. Players who could be implicated on some "rough around the edges clues" are going to stay around longer. They might be good bodyguard targets. How will the candidates decide this? Take a few minutes to look at the profiles of EVERY player and see what connections can be made. If you can find similarities in profile content between a few players then you should note it and possibly use them as your bodyguards. Then again I don't know how mafia is going to treat the breadcrumb trail of clues so this could just be speculation. This type of discussion should be reserved until day 2, but if I was running I would consider picking people who would be less likely night 1 targets (for example: RoL shouldn't pick DrH and vice-versa).
The bolded parts are a seeming contradiction, but the rest of it simply doesn't make sense. I'd be interested in what your opinions are on these topics, but I can't understand what you are trying to say. Your plan seems like a way of clumping the mafia's targets into a small group of people to get them all killed easily...
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Can a bodyguard be modkilled? If so, will there be any replacement?
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Right now I want to hear what RoL thinks about picking volunteers for BG's.
I don't buy the arguments that people are making about it would "narrowing down the group of people that could be blues, making it that much easier to kill them".
We already have a few volunteers, and I don't think that we would be flooded with them. Plus mafia would doubtless have to dive into a bunch of wifom about whether or not blues volunteered, so I don't think that it gives them any real information on who is blue or not.
If the town votes against this idea, I will follow their decision, but I will argue my point as if i were just another townie none the less.
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Responses incoming. Please think about how stupid RNG'ing something like this would be this late in the game. Just don't do it.
Also, the BG discussion is taking up WAY too much time. The mafia are deliberately trying to keep it going, so that we waste valuable time not doing analysis. Again, more to come. I'm heading off on my commute, and I don't expect to be back in till about half an hour before the vote, but I'll have more to say on this once I get to an internet connection.
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Right, so long story short, my computer crashed and I lost the response I put together over the past hour. Sucks, but I'm not going to hang on it.
Here's the short version from my memory:
RNG is stupid.
Bum is Scum.
BrownBear is being dumb for following Bum.
I'm considering lynching Bum, if the town agrees. Otherwise I will follow through with the ON lynch, so as not to upset people.
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Yeah, I didn't realize it was so late. There's no way the town will be able to get in on this in time.
OriginalName has been sent to the gallows. "May God have mercy on your soul."
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Ok, I've been informed that I need to pick my BG's in the next 5 min. I didn't realize that it was to be turned in at the end of the day.
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I've sent in GMarshal and beneather. Sorry if this is not in line with what you want, I was late getting back.
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I used a RNG between Beneather(Inactive and new), kitaman(Volunteered), and GMarshal(New and volunteered).
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Right, so we have that out of the way. We need to start on analysis now. First off, I'd like to call out a few people.
RoL: You've stated that the town will win if everyone contributes, and you've said that you are very good at analysis. Please start analyzing. I don't know why you haven't started yet, but I'm having bad flashbacks to Merc Mafia. I KNOW you are capable of more than you are doing right now. If this is your last game in a while, why sit back and not participate in the analysis?
D3: Dr.H said that he was thinking a lot about the clues and analyses, and said he would post them later. He's gone now, and he didn't leave anything. I know you are capable of playing well too. I'd love to see you get out there and analyse. I know from experience that it's not fun having you on the analyzing side when your scum. I'd love to see that same play here, even if you aren't a SK this time.
Amber: While I haven't seen you play an active townie in any of the games I've played with you, I've heard a lot of good things about you, I I'd like to see you step up and start analyzing people too. So far your contributions have been fairly difficult to understand, and far in-between
BrownBear: I'm really confused that you went along with Bum's RNG plan as long as you did. You've played a lot and from what I've seen and heard, you should have seen the problems with that plan. At the same time, if you were scum, I think your are experienced enough to have seen that it would be immediately discarded, so that doesn't make sense either.
I'm starting to rebuild my analysis on Bum now, I hope to have it back together before I go to bed.
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Yes, I have already sent in the night action: I'm checking the number of mafia.
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EPT
