BC and RoL: Salem Mafia - Page 68

On December 08 2010 10:05 kitaman27 wrote:


I demand a modkill. This game is under protest.

You were dt checked day one right?

On December 08 2010 10:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

and haunted mafia where annul raped the town through the town circle

On December 08 2010 10:26 Radfield wrote:



Mafia got EXTREMELY lucky with that night one DT check, and with the fact that the other dt was modkilled on Day 1. Honestly, this game(along with the role-list) was handed to us on a silver platter. Dr H's scumhunting almost saved the day, but it was a steep slope to climb.




Agreed. People were comparing myself and YM: Both semi-veteran players, known for contributing but are not. The big difference was that all of my posts looked like they were contributions, but were not. Where as YM was simply not contributing. This pegs me as mafia, and him as something else(either blue, or disinterested, or IRL busy, etc)

Also, had we not had the role list, we would have likely targeted YM in a blue-snipe attempt. His play was simply too uncharacteristic to go unnoticed.

EDIT: I will say my play this game was extremely lackluster. No doubt about that.

On December 08 2010 10:38 Incognito wrote:


On a further note: Theres only 3 games I remember where a town circle actually benefited the town. One was TL Mafia 4, where town circle destroyed the game Night 1 because mafia didn't read the rules. The second was Mafia V, where Town lynched red 7-8 times in a row (can't remember exactly, but it was almost a perfect game). However, in this game, town circle benefited from the fact that all the top tier players were town-sided. The third game was Mafia XX, where mafia played a passive game and information in the town circle was strictly kept between 3 players. The funny thing about that game, though, was that the mafia knew who the town circle was but couldn't do anything to stop them. That game also had too many strong blue roles. The moral of the story is: town circles only work well when information is kept strictly guarded AND the game has abnormal circumstances like described above. Otherwise, just don't try it.

On December 08 2010 10:41 Incognito wrote:


Yes, you were fairly obvious day 1 if you compare this play to your other play. However, what I'm interested in most here is the GF comparison. Everyone assumes that GF will be the mafia's strongest player. However, often mafia doesn't choose the obvious player as GF. This game, SR over Radfield. Mafia XXII, BM over me. Caller's mafia, a no-name player over Ver.

Will be back for more comments later.

On December 04 2010 02:33 Radfield wrote:
Events in my life are conspiring to keep me from playing mafia. Dr H, lynch me if you must, I don't deny my play has been poor. Sorry team

Also, lynching JS is a no-brainer at this point.

On November 28 2010 21:33 Radfield wrote:
...



All new players take note, no wiser words have been spoken. This game is about focusing on who is MAFIA, not who is town. How many times have you used the ALL function to CTRL-F through the thread for a certain players posts? I have done it dozens of times so far, and will continue to do it dozens more before i die(hopefully more than ~12hrs from now). I suggest everyone else do the same.

...

On December 08 2010 11:17 aidnai wrote:


>_< This tactic won me over so quick I'm embarrased. I won't trust people who flatter me anymore I guess. Although IT WAS GOOD ADVICE AND DAMN YOU TOWN FOR NOT LISTENING ;(

May I ask why I got shivved so quick? reasoning? Was it an attempted blue snipe, or just unlikely medic target, or wifom-generator, or what?

Dr.H had a good analysis on annul, and a good analysis on radfield. I'm not sure what went wrong with youngminii... I was shocked when he flipped blue. Looking forward to seeing another analysis on his play sometime.

Hi Radfield,
Based on your behavior in the thread, I feel like you are town aligned. I therefore want to bounce a few ideas off of you.

Tomorrow, we get to lynch again. Right now, my list of scum targets is something like Node, SouthRawrea, Pandain, DarthThienAn. What do you think? Personally, I think we have the strongest case on either Node or DTA, i'd like to pressure one of those two. If you agree, it would probably be useful to focus town that direction.

Also, I've been talking to Dr.H. Everything he has done in thread has seemed very pro-town, except for the focus on town circle which honestly can go very good or very bad for town. Do you think it's plausible that he could be godfather? In the scenario I'm imagining, both Dr.H and the 'medic' who claimed to him (if there is one) are mafia. Dr.H now has an excuse to be the center of attention and the center of the town circle (because of the medic claim). He also has an excuse for not dying (similar to GF claiming vet, but instead of bulletproof he has a medic).

All of my behavioral analysis says Dr.H is town, but the scenario I'm imagining is keeping me from trusting him 100%. I also wish he wasn't so focussed on town circle/confirming townies/PM's/roleclaiming. Do you have any thoughts?

On December 08 2010 10:19 Radfield wrote:



Lol, classy Cubedin... the ol "I KNEW you were mafia" after the fact

Yes, the reason I fought so hard at the end was to link myself and Eiii irrevocably. If people all of a sudden decided to lynch me at the end, then it would be obvious that Eiii was also mafia, since I would never fight hard against the Mad Hatter lynch unless we were both mafia(since if Eiii was town then I win).
+ Show Spoiler +

And yes, I knew the other bomb was on KtheZ, since South told us that.

GG everyone

On December 08 2010 11:44 CubEdIn wrote:


Oh come on don't be mean to me.
The whole town was pretty much sure you were Mafia, and that's all I stated. It just got more obvious when you were causing a fuss, but as you said, it didn't matter anyway.

And I know that ym didn't die just because of that, but I've seen this happen a lot of times:
Town bases self on one idea -> something bad happens, people forget about the idea -> time is wasted and game is lost, when following the idea would've been good.

I'm just saying, if we committed to something, we should follow through. Just like it was with the Pandain Lynch in Insane.

And I never claimed that I'm a good player, but I did comment about our "confirmed green", and I always voted for killing you when you were in the spotlight. So you can't say I'm being whiny. I would've never guessed who ELSE was mafia anyway.

On December 08 2010 10:13 Incognito wrote:


Not necessarily true. 2 veterans in a game is perfectly reasonable and has been in quite a few setups in the past.

On December 08 2010 10:41 Incognito wrote:


Yes, you were fairly obvious day 1 if you compare this play to your other play. However, what I'm interested in most here is the GF comparison. Everyone assumes that GF will be the mafia's strongest player. However, often mafia doesn't choose the obvious player as GF. This game, SR over Radfield. Mafia XXII, BM over me. Caller's mafia, a no-name player over Ver.

Will be back for more comments later.

On December 08 2010 10:46 Radfield wrote:


Agreed, though I'd like to hope that I wasn't completely obvious until Day 2....

And I know that ym didn't die just because of that, but I've seen this happen a lot of times:
Town bases self on one idea -> something bad happens, people forget about the idea -> time is wasted and game is lost, when following the idea would've been good.

I'm just saying, if we committed to something, we should follow through. Just like it was with the Pandain Lynch in Insane.

On December 08 2010 12:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


2 meds, 2 dts, 2 hatters, chances are very very very low two vets -_-

On December 08 2010 12:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
In regards to this game in a very simple go before I write out a more detailed post.

Town Circle day 1 was a terrrrrrrible idea. In that one day where everyone rallied behind dr.H the game was done. I say this on this fact. DT's assumed that dr.H was legit. Medics assumed he was legit. Etc....

Had he been red (in this case miller so dt would have seen him as red), the town literally would have handed the game away day 1. Instead dr H trusted a dt checked person day 1 and gave him a ton of information before ever verifying that a) south was not a gf or b) artanis / south did a mafia trick.

There was way to much blind trust by the town on everyone. In pm land people shared info that should never have been shared. Next to no one behavioural analyzed and instead based conversations off who did and didn't pm their role to dr H. That in itself should not have been the major factor in who lives and dies. In this setup, I would never had claimed to dr H, or anyone for that matter unless the evidence was overwhelmingly strong in their favour. I say this purely because everyone was talking way to much in pm's, sharing way to much and not testing out the waters.

I really hope this game just showed how much blind trust can royally come back to bite people in the ass, or that building one circle is not the be all and end all.


I will share a basic rundown of how I would have done this.

I pm any random 2-3 players on the list. I begin to talk to them.
Now, I form a "circle" with said players. However, all we do is talk general strategy, behavioural analysis sharing or the like. No sharing of roles, no speculating of roles. Now say your a dt or you have somehow had a dt check you and claim to you., you can test your circle very very easily. Say someone got ahold of you, mention x player was checked (lie through your teeth if they are green/blue) and if said fake player dies chances are someone in your circle is red. Bam now you analyze behaviour and pin one down. (or systematically have it checked).

A town circle is great, but people should operate in small cells, or stay out of pm land altogether. Share ideas, analysis, whatever, just don't share roles or talk about them. Give as little information on "hit targets" as possible. You may be able to keep you trap shut, but chances are someone else won't.

Control information, actively analyze, and if something someone says seems off to you say it. The more arguments the better. The more active the thread gets the more chances you have to find reds.

I think that half the purpose of killing blues is simply to demoralize the town. This game was a clear example of how, even though they had the incredible boon of the traitor going afk and getting lynched, and then deconduo superbly snagging a mafia night 1, the town thought it was all over simply because they started losing blues. The prevailing argument in day 3 was about how 'if dr h is mafia we already lost so we have to trust him' was completely illogical, but with the panic that produced so many thoughts like that, the town had trouble concentrating effectively on the important things.

On December 08 2010 14:26 Qatol wrote:

That "no name player" was incognito. But that isn't really a fair game to use because godfather was an assigned role until after mafia VIII. Speaking of which, Mafia VIII Showtime! over MrBabyHands fooled the DTs too.

I'm fine with sharing thoughts via PM, I'm just very worried about a town that comes to rely on a circle of "confirmed" people for direction instead of good scumhunting and discussion within the thread itself.

I realize that that could be construed as a scummy sentiment -- of course mafia doesn't want people conspiring against them in private -- but I think it's too easy for town to put themselves in a position where they're controlled by the circle instead of the other way around.

I'm all for getting discussion going in PM land, though.