EPTKingmaker - A New Game
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 09 2010 16:34 Coagulation wrote: the only ones that really "need to find out what the king is thinking" are the assassins. How so? Note that there are no actions from the assassins before the king decides who to kill. The assassins will just have to post and discuss like the rest of town. It's a small game, shouldn't be that hard to keep active and post at least semi-constructively. So. I just woke up, and I skimmed through the thread. I agree that we should really push inactive players to talk, but I disagree that king should listen to town. It should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town. So no, excuses like "I had a gut feeling" won't really hold if 8 people are voting for someone and the king choses to kill someone else. That would be an obvious tell. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 09 2010 18:56 Hesmyrr wrote: WTF are you keep talking about. So if there is 5-3 split and king goes, "oh guy with 3 votes seem more suspicious imma hammer him" do you have any idea what chaos would ensure thereafter? At the point where king makes a decision where town opinion is not so decisive as your example, everything goes to shit whether the king turns out to be town or not. Like I said, if the king has valid excuse behind his push, then it should be enough to convince the majority into believing his case. In fact please explain how "t should be pretty obvious if he goes with the general "stream of thought" that the town is going with, or if he just chooses to lynch someone who seems completely random to the town" somehow turns into support for the statement "I disagree that king should listen to town." Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'm sorry, but the king is a cool role. Why do we have to spoil it? It's the player's chance. IF there's a 5-4 vote split, (king's vote is on the 4) the king can lynch whoever he wants, no? That's fair, the imbalance is not that big. If there's a 5-3 vote split (assuming one player died), then the king has one of those 3 votes. So in fact, it's just a 5-2 vote split (not counting king's vote), so the imbalance is fairly obvious. King has the option of going with the majority, or taking a huge risk and killing the "2-vote". If the 2-vote turns blue, then the king will have a lot to explain for, and it won't be an easy way out. Also, the other 2 voters will be in trouble. So no, given the fact that there are only 9 players, I don't think there's any way for the king to explain un-town-like moves. I fail to imagine a scenario where the king could justify a "gut feeling" blue kill, unless the votes are actually quite close (note the 5-4 split I was talking about earlier). | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Both of these are somewhat bad to the town in the long run: 1. The kingmaker dies -> New kingmaker -> Could be better, could be worse, but in the end it's one blue dead so overall it's bad for the town. 2. The hero dies -> This is obviously bad because in the event that one of the kings decides to kill the hero, it will blow up in their faces, and we'll also have one (possibly two) blues confirmed. I'm just saying that statistically speaking, using a relic will most likely get a townie killed (if I understand this correctly). So I'm not sure it's a smart idea. On the other hand, I was lynched in day1 in the king-assassin game because I dared to defend myself, so I'm not sure if the "majority decision" is better.  | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I'm thinking something in the lines of: players number divided to 3, rounded up if it's over x,5 and down if it's under x,5 So he'll have 3 votes on day one (but this includes his own vote as a townie, ofc), two votes on day 2 (assuming 3 people died), and so on. I fail to see the point in having a new king each day if he'll just have to 100% follow the majority. It would be just pointless. As for him revealing or not, I think it should be up to him. He will be revealed after he makes his move anyway, so you can't make a really strong argument either way. It should be up to them, actually. Overall, I think you guys are taking a lot out of this game by trying to make the king as non-powerful as possible. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 10 2010 02:59 LSB wrote: Remember, it is quiet easy to state a few reasons why someone is probably scum. In every single game, scum are accused, town are accused. Take this post in the Micro Game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=161868¤tpage=8#145 Each are reasons why the king could have killed someone. If we allow the king to go against majority, all that's going to happen is the assassins are going to be able to crowned, write up an analysis against a random player. Post the analysis and get the town to waste a lynch. I don't buy the 'the king should have fun' argument. Remember, the problem is that the King is a very big danger and hold lots of power. Play to win, not to 'roleplay' Fair enough. You don't have to explain the easy bandwagons, as I said, I got raped for simply counter-attacking the guy who attacked me in the Assassin game. Nobody even bothered to read my posts and see if they made any sense from a Bodyguard point of view. But I digress. However, the king is only a big danger if he's on his own. There is NO way that a king who will go against the majority will not be held accountable. I think that it's very well worth having the king go totally against town and kill a blue if in return he will get killed day 2 and flip red. So no, I don't think it's very easy for someone to get away with killing whoever they want, and bandwagons can be started by anyone, king doesn't have much to do with that. At the very least king should have one extra vote or something. You are only judging from the perspective of being a townie, but what if there's a king who is really sure (based on a gut feeling) that someone is an assassin? What will he do? He might even invoke Merlin or do silly things like that just out of frustration of not being listened to by the town. Either way, I'll go with any decision, but forcing king to be normal townie will probably cause more bad than it does good. Just my two cents. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I'm also in the wagon of killing lurkers, so Coag is fine with me, for now. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
"Merlin likes to play tricks on young Kings and may lie!" Now I don't know what that means, but it could be that it would lie if you use it early? Or it would only tell the truth to kings that were elected once before? I don't know but it just seems odd. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 10 2010 07:39 Coagulation wrote: [/red][/b][/i]1) Lynching inactives generally from what i have seen so far lynching inactives only gets a town role killed. i dont think lynching an inactive is the way to go in any mafia game and i have never ever used it as a reason. if your lynching inactives you might as well just lynch the most active 2) Old plan, should the king be forced to follow the town's opinion? no the king needs to vote who he feels he personally needs to vote. this is the best aspect of the game that puts it in towns favor. a vote outside the influince of the scums grasp 3) New plan, do you agree? Disagree? I dont think the king should be forced to role claim. i think it only gives the scum extra information that they can use when there is absolutely no reason at all that town needs to know who the king is during a lynch debate. 1. Wrong. This is a 9 people game. We can't have one dude hiding and giving him the benefit of a doubt. If there were 30+ people I'd get it, but in a small game such as this you have to play your role. You just have to. We just can't have one or two players not being active (thus never drawing suspicion by posting/contributing) and not being punished for it. I'm not gonna have any of this. 2. Yes and no. King should have a stronger hand in voting, but shouldn't go on his own. I mean he could, but he should and probably will be held accountable for any dumb moves. 3. I'm fine either way. But all kings should do the same or pick from the same two options in our plan. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Shouldn't we lynch someone soon? Please remember that if king doesn't make a move in time, HE will be lynched instead. And I don't think it's a good idea to lose Dr.H. Wake up! | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
And if we were to use Excalibur, then even the king, the kingmaker and the town hero is in danger of being slain. Why would we bother with that instead of picking someone who hasn't been active, helpful, etc. So far it's just 6-7 pages of posts, so the lynch is gonna be mostly random anyway, but I'd rather lynch someone who looks particularly scummy or not helpful, then risk losing the hero/kingmaker which might be the strongest weapons that the town have. Heck, even if the king chooses to lynch the town hero, we'd still have one blue confirmed out of 8 (12,5%) remaining, which is better than Excalibur killing him and being sure of 0/8. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Seriously, if town wants to stand a chance in this game then everyone should get to posting. This game has been much slower than I expected, and if people don't post then we might as well random-kill, which will probably lose the game for town. At this point it's much to easy for mafia to sit back and slay whoever they want. I've gone through the posts and Dr.H didn't do anything that would even hint at him being town hero, so I don't think he got killed because of that. He also didn't straight-out accuse anyone other than Coag, who was proven town, so basically we have zero leads at the start of day 2. All I can hope for is that people start playing. As far as there's no posts involved, I'd vote for the inactives. I know it's a crappy idea since they are probably town, like BrownBear said, but, as I said before, this is too small of a game. Only 7 people left. We need to hear opinions, see people trying to play. Come on guys, wake up. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Baiscally, everyone has made a decent or half-decent point, but to me there's not enough information to actually VOTE for anyone. My instincts still say that we should target inactives. Not for lynching per se, but in order to get them to talk. It's too easy for the reds to just stay low and watch us slaughter each other. Also, there are two mafia in this game. I have yet to see two opinions that were in alignment with one another, so I really doubt that we're gonna hit a red so far, unless one mafia is active and the other one passive (which, I must say, is not a bad plan I guess). I'll keep thinking about this, but even though I suspect people, I don't suspect anyone enough in order to send them to be lynched. I'll try to take a step back and look at the whole picture again, when I come back in a few hours, and cast my vote then. I must say I'm not happy with the reasoning so far. There are some valid points, as I said, but nothing that's even 75% sure to get us a red lynch. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
But even if I had, I wouldn't have had time to go over the posts carefully again due to my "condition". I'm really sorry. In retrospect, though, I wouldn't have voted for BrownBear simply because his posts during the first day seemed very pro-town. I would have been inclined towards LSB but simply because his attacks don't seem be to be based on much. On there other hand, there's not much ELSE to go on, so I guess he has a point. As for Amber, I get the reasons he was voted for, but I really don't think he's red. I don't think ANYONE that has been arguing here is red, I think the mafias are actually lurking, but I guess we will know for sure soon. (Glad the day post hasn't been up so I get to post this before the "revelation". ) | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
After looking and reading, during day 3 I will probably be focusing on Pandain and Orgolove, Pandain because he's been flying under the radar and Orgolove because I find his arguments to be a bit shifty. I guess it's no use to stir up stuff now, but we'll see after the night passes. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
I will need to hear orgolove and pandain's arguments or else they're the prime suspects on my list. Sorry, but after tonight there will be only 5 people left, and I really can't stand semi-lurking. I was away too, and it's the weekend, fine, but we need to hear arguments. Also, if we're gonna use merlin, it will have to be now. If we flip a red, we'll have 2v2 (after the reds kill one player, that night), and one red will be revealed, thus killed, leading to a 2v1 situation, which is basically a coin-flip for the king-maker. I'm not saying it's the best solution, since to me, the chances of uncovering a red now are relatively close to random, so we might as well use the sword and have a kill as well. It's a tough choice, but this is where the game gets interesting. It might be do-or-die. Ima go sleep. If I die, please consider what I just said. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
So not really the best scenario :/ | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
No point in voting just yet, as we can cause a fuss over nothing and get another blue lynched. If we don't get a red lynched then town is fucked. So hold your horses for a bit till we know who king is. Otherwise, you can get into dumb arguments. Like say, if Brownbear is king, then he will surely not kill himself, and maybe go for orgolove for voting for him. This is not wise, not at this very scary time. Let's just calm down and try to make a good choice, at least once. So, who's king? | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Lol. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
+1 proof that nobody listens to me.  | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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CubEdIn
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But well, I liked the active/passive play, even if you'd have gone for one of us, it would've been highly unlikely that we would be linked. GG guys. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Dr.H proved to be a great choice, but in retrospect, it's funny that we were discussing town hero or kingmaker on night 1. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On November 16 2010 12:42 orgolove wrote: I honestly thought DrH was mafia from how he just lynched coagulation. -_- And I don't see why they kicked LSB when it was obvious he was trying to get Brownbear. It's illogical, really. Well, your first post after LSB died was "omg so he was right about BrownBear! KEEEEEEEEEL" (or something among those lines). Which is exactly the effect we were going for. He was squeezing BB a lot and he said "pick me as king if you want bb dead". So it was only natural that people would look towards bb if LSB died. Basically with your post, it was already three people of 4 against brownbear (if you include me and pandain ofc), so unless he got chosen king, he would've been gone. Either that or they'd turn on you. But as Mafia we were safe with most scenarios. ...Excalibur was basically the best chance imo. 40% chance of whacking a mafia in the end would've been worth it. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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