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veldril defended masq who got lynched day one and popped vamp.
plus hes just downright admitted to being vampire couple times accidentally.
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well heres a simple way to say it :
he defended masq
masq was vampire
(I voted brownbear because of clues, you should do it too to be cool like me(it worked for masq!))
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On October 16 2010 07:27 XeliN wrote:
I'm going to start reading over this thread from page 1, currently only browsed about 5 pages related to the *He who shall not be named* funnies and eventual modkill, but nothing else.
From the looks of things there is already a strong consensus on who is being lynched today, if anyone wouldn't mind briefly summarising the reasoning behind Veldril's lynch it would help me out, although I'm going to be going over the thread so will come to it eventually, given the huge number of people voting for him I'd imagine a very strong clue tie or DT check?
Pandain's analysis here sums it all up pretty well.
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I'm torn between voting Veldril and voting Glurio. Veldril is an obvious vote, as I think we're all pretty certain he's a vampire. Glurio is suspicious to me because of Bill Murray's (the player he replaced) erratic behavior. I'm fine with killing Veldril tonight, but I just want to make sure we keep an eye on Glurio.
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On October 16 2010 07:14 Coagulation wrote:
list of people currently not voting veld
zerroth
Nemesis
deconduo
Glasse
oddo123
chesshaha
jaminz
good probability theres a vamp or two in this list if veld pops vamp.
With practically everybody voting Veldril, I don't see why vampires would bother voting on somebody else, especially since, as you said, it'd put a pretty big flag on them. Perhaps a case of WIFOM (I think I'm using that right), but I don't think we can construe a whole lot from these votes.
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glurio would be a good lynch after veld considering all the post's bill made we would have alot of material to analyze for possible allies if he pops mafia/vamp
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This post lists a lot of great reasons why Veldril is Red... However, it also makes me VERY suspicious about Pandain. If Veldril flips Blue/Green tonight, I'm going to be giving Pandain a very hard look...
+ Show Spoiler +On October 16 2010 04:48 Pandain wrote:Alright, again, PEOPLE WHO GOT HIT NEED TO CLAIM. Also, Yum Yum analysis Time A Panda Inspectors view into the Veldril VillageSummary:Veldril has been very suscipcious this game. From defending a known vampire, to horrible accusations, to many numerous slips that cannot just be explained by his nationality/coincidence. Veldril has not made any real posts of his thoughts on anyone(besides Yogy, and I've already discussed that.). right now, Veldril in my eyes seems certainly vampire. We should lynch him to lower the vampire kp by one. His posts this game:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
His first post. Doesn't really say anything, admits its not important. As of now, can be expalined away as being new, but keep an eye on it. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:03 Veldril wrote:
Hey, he's killed by a dagger not sword, lol. And if you buy enough knives then you can literally pierce a person at every spot. Picking at words, trying to laugh it off. This was after some people brought up the possible clues to him Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. The post that set off the fire. Here we see him defend Masq, yet note that it's not as "certain" as some people may make it out to seem. He doesn't say it doesn't apply, he says we need to be more cautious. In my eyes this is a pro town post, however in retrospect we see Masq is vampire. In addition, he warns against this clue because it is "too obvious." Not a very good reason, but not a very bad post. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. Mmmm... warns that an indictator of mafia/vampire could be that they accuse other people if someone is suspected. What I don't like about this post is he doesn't really give any concrete opinions, he has not as of yet. He's giving general advice, without any real opinions. Even the advice is kept in check by his admitting that he's not sure. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:40 Veldril wrote:Oh and by Mafia/Vampire deflecting blame in the first point of my previous post is that if they are lucky, they could kill other side too. For Mafia/Vampire, I think they don't care much about who dies in the first couple of days/nights as long as it's not on their side. Townie dies mean they have less choice to make in the next cycle and if they can force townie to vote to kill the other side, then that would make them even have more profit. Oh and I don't say that Masq is surely not a killer. I just think we need to look further for other clues too before accusing him solely. But he's one of the suspects though. (Maybe I need a ghost in the first night  ). Says that mafia/vampire don't really care who dies as long as its not one of them. Alright, but wanna go any further? Here he also clarifies(or does he????) his position on masq, he's suscipcious of him, but thinks we need to look for more clues. Yet he doesn't offer anything! Of course, he could just be lazy, but another thing to note. Also, whats with that last sentence? I'm so confused by that. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction: Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind. That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post. I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? this post is very, very intersting. Let's see a core assumption this post makes: 1. Masq is mafia/vampire
Why?: "I deserve to be suspected for protecting masq." But why, if you think we need to look at other people. Why does protecting masq make you a suspect, unless of course you know he's mafia/vampire. Also he now warns we should be wary of clues, and in retrospect the clue led to Masq being caught. Also, he says "townie like us", but that just seems forced. Very forced. Then he defends his(he admits?!!!) bad post, but defends that by saying "Do you REALLY think I would do the same thing as Ver described?" Using wifom to defend himself, not good. Now for another interesting part of this post: Show nested quote +Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.
I believe this is a slip up. I think it's already been noted, but of course I'm going through all of his posts. He doesn't say "Therefore, Veldril and masq are vampire/mafia", he says "Therefore, veldril and masq are VAMPIRE." Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 00:46 Veldril wrote:
Oh and Bill, I concluded that you are experienced player because you participated in many Mafia game before. You even hosted a game. I checked your post history. OMG NOTE THAT. This is important for a future post of his. He knows how to use search function.Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 02:12 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 02:02 Flicky wrote:
My general opinion on the Whole Masq thing is that he's not doing a great job of defending himself despite it only being day 1.
While it's possible it's "too obvious" to some, as soon as I realised it can't have been a Jack O'Lantern framing, the more it seems that's the only lead.
Seems likely to me and that a possible miss-lynch wouldn't be too much of an issue. After spending time reading rules, I do agree that miss-lynch on the first day is not a big issue. We have 61 players here, with 22 reds. That we have 39 greens/blues. Considering that mafias and vampires each can kill up to 3 people (or have to kill three people I'm not sure, might need clarification on this), we can say that on the first day plus first night, there will be up to 7 people dead. If all dead are hit at townie, then townie will have 32 player left. And worst case would be 7 of either vampire or mafia are killed (only single side), which I believe is very unlikely. This post just states the obvious, simple logic. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:07 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 04:00 Bill Murray wrote:On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction: Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind. That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post. I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? my logic is more like this: you said "as mafia, i would defend someone" you said so AFTER defending someone therefore, it is possible you are mafia with them the fact you are squirming and attacking my logic, while calling me an experienced player claiming I have a hidden agenda (which I don't and it's a fucking straight out lie), is making me really really want you to be lynched. You are pretty good for a newbie. Your logic is better than mine. My logic sucks. I don't give a fuck if my logic sucks, though, you have made many fucking mistakes. You are mafia. You are either mafia or a vampire, and I'm going to get you lynched. Sorry. Hmmm, fair enough. You have your points spoken and that's fine for me. Well, maybe I jumped my conclusion that "experienced player = player familiar with logic" so if that's not true then my argument would be unsound. But since we really don't know is it true or not, we could just left it for others to decide. Backs down. I had a pm with Dr. H that one of the major scum tells is someone accusing/making a point, then backing down. Now, obviously townies can do this all the time, but it points towards a scum. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:21 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 04:16 orgolove wrote:https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ap0Ejzlf165MdENWM3p1cHNOcDlnT0o4bjNUUFdVMlE&hl=en&output=htmlSo far we have a few people who have had several tells. These may not be conclusive, but just putting it out there: jodogohoo-"what is mafia" pretended to be noob, changed vote multiple times 1st day Masq-apart from profile matching the clue, immediately agreed with Veldril when defended aztrorisk-strongly accused shmotz, switched to masq when others started, defended glasse when his hammer profile pic was mentioned Bill Murray-happy to kill coagulation/masq, posted PMs with aztorisk (!!!) - untrustworthy? And we can see that most of the votes are against these few. Now, I don't understand the following votes: ShmotZ - 1 - KtheZ - (L-30) seRapH - 2 - NB, coagulation - (L-29) coagulation - 3 - seRapH, deconduo, jcarlsoniv - (L-28) These votes can't be explained by the newbie logic of "he voted for me, so I'm voting for him" What's interesting to note is, seraph accused coagulation, then NB and coagulation voted Seraph back. Also, I haven't seen jcarlsoniv or deconduo post in this thread, only in the voting thread. These might be from the same faction- I dunno... Deconduo has posted once. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453¤tpage=17#327 alright, we've already established he knows how to use the search function. But then, why did he mislabel the number of posts Deconduo has made? Either: 1. He can't count.
2.Theres an ulterior motive. I'm going to leave this open to interperation, as I'm not sure myself. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 19:02 Veldril wrote:
It seems most people are out for my blood now.
I feel like now when I try to defend or propose something up, most people will come up with even more excuses to vote me. It seems I really made a grudge with Bill Murray, since he's the most vocal to get me killed. I don't really understand why you would want me to get lynched so badly. I would shift a vote off you if you have explain the reason why do you think "defending others" would mean "Red defends Red".
Also, I feel that either me or Masq get lynched, it would not be a good situation for Townie or me at all. If Masq get lynched and turn out to be red, people would still suspect me and that could hurt townie since they would spend their focus on me being red and I would still get fried. If Masq turn out to be green, I don't think some people will let me go free without discrediting me, therefore I could not make impact in the future day/night.
However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over. It may seems cowardice but I will have to vote for Masq to save myself. I just wish that Masq indeed turns out to be green.
Here he explains his vote for Masq. Note some key things in this statement. Now, he says he's from Thailand, and I believe he is(thus, english not first language.) But these should still be noted. "It would not be a good situation for townie OR ME." Indicating he's not townie. "However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over." Is he soft claiming blue? I'm confuzzled. I don't think he's blue, he would've said something by now. Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 00:45 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 23:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 12 2010 22:42 CubEdIn wrote:
I don't get this bandwaggoning that's going on.
WHY is Veldril more important than Masq? We are only voting for him BECAUSE he tried to defend Masq, so if we're voting for him, then we just assume that Masq is also M/V. Correct?
So why not be methodical about it, and start with Masq? If he proves to be a Mafia/Vamp, then we'll know for sure that so is Veldril. If not, then our whole premise was wrong and we should rethink our steps.
How is this an issue? WHY VELDRIL FIRST?
I don't get the reasoning here. I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much. I find it odd with your observation here. When I attack BM's argument back then, I attacked him quite aggressively to make his logic fall apart. Every time I try to defend my position, he respond very aggressively so I have to try other methods to back my argument, which is what make he thinks that by protecting Masq is equal to we teaming up and be on the same team. He still doesn't response me and when orglove try to press him at this point, he also react aggressively. Also, if most people start accusing you, wouldn't you want to prove your innocence. Since I don't have proof and I don't want to point finger randomly (only to BM now). That's why I stated in the previous post, every attempt of me defending myself looks like I make a bad post as a red, and every aggressive move toward me is a good post or good observation for some people. Doesn't it weird? Final note, please look at where I come from. You have to consider cultural and personality impact on making arguments too, because sometimes Asian countries have different way to answer. In Thailand, it is most of the time considered polite to be passive when someone make an argument against you. We also consider our false directly in logical argument so we would not misjudge or build a better argument. Softly(at least) accuses BM. claims he doesn't want to point fingers randomly, but then says (only to BM now.) Defends his "playstyle" by saying wheres he from. Eh... Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...
If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.
Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.
All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night.
This post basically claims vampire. First off "I think that people now are 100% sure of my role right now."
Listen to his reasons for not lynching him:
1. We want to keep vampire/mafia numbers even. Basically claimed vampire there.
2. Lynching me now would only help mafia. Another indictation.
Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 16:42 Veldril wrote:
Don't jump your conclusion yet. There are several reasons that I did not die on Night 2.
1. A ghost protected me.
2. I have been poisoned, therefore will be death the next night.
3. It is better to keep me alive because I have drawn too much attention upon myself.
4. Bum and Youngminii and LSB are better target to kill than me, because they fervently wanted me to get lynched on day 1.
5. It is better to get me lynched than wasting night action/kill on me, especially when many people suspecting me as a vampire. Alright, this is just a horrible post. First off, he would've claimed a ghost protected him, he can't know if he's been poisoned, and Bum really didn't "ferevantly" want you to get lynched. Also, if you've drawn too much attention to yourself, obviously you've done something wrong. It's true perhaps mafia wants us just to kill veldril via lynching, but personally I would still be okay with it because it lowers the vampire kp by one. Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 19:06 Veldril wrote:On October 14 2010 18:56 KhrisKruel wrote:On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...
If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.
Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.
All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night. Can you explain this? If you were a townie, how would your death strengthen the mafia? To me this is basically a vampire claim Basically, it is because by lynching me, Mafia has nothing to lose. If I'm green, it just at worst a miss but they would not lose a member and maintain 2 more members than a vampire. They can even trace back and analyze to find more possible vampire's member by looking at voting and posting on day 1 relating to accusing me. If I'm a vampire, then basically they reduce the KP of vampire down by 1, and has 3 more members than vampire. That means vampire would be less likely to kill Mafia on Night 2 because they can only kill 2 people, while mafia can kill 3 . In this case (lynching me and I turn out to be a vampire), assuming that they both kill each others perfectly, vampire would be reduce to 4 people but Mafia would be only reduce 8, gaining even more leading. explanation. Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 23:55 Veldril wrote:Whether I'm a vampire or not is not a problem right now. The issue is that by lynching me today, Mafias would gain advantages over Town and Vampire. If I flip green, they use previous vote to trace back who is vampire. Even if they miss on night 2, there would still have suspects list that could be used later to fish out vampire. It could also put a townie who vote for me on day 1 in danger. If I flip blue, well... I think I don't have to explain how this would affect town. If I flip vampire, they gain a lot of advantage as I explained in the previous post. Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first. And when vampire and mafia number are approximately equal, then town can choose the course of action at that point, be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let me presented a possible Mafia player that we should vote for today: YogyThe reasons that we should lynch this person are: 1. He voted Masq without posting anything before. If he's Mafia, then he would know that Masq is not on his team. Voting Masq, whom the clue implied to be a killer, would be the best vote to get rid of a vampire. The date and time he voted Masq is On October 11 2010 16:37 Yogy wrote:
Vote Masq http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=65593762. Later, he came up with this post: On October 13 2010 01:41 Yogy wrote:
I've been pretty inactive in posting I confess, new to this and trying to get the hang of it. No one has been telling me what to do or who to vote to lynch, I've come to that decision myself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6572368Why would someone tell that there's no one telling him what to do or vote if he acted independently? If he indeed acted independently, he should have a reason why he voted for Masq, may it be he is so sure about the clue or else. Moreover, he posted this after someone compile the number of posts each player made. For me, it is very suspicious. 3. He is always inactive. Except the post I quote above, he make no other posts at all. By voting him right now would force him to be more active and we could get more information out of him that would benefit town. Therefore, with these three reasons above, I placed my vote on Yogy. To me this is just trying to change the direction of the bandwagon on him onto another player. Except its not a very good argument for lynching Yogy(no clues apply we can see, alot of people are inactive, and i thought you said you don't like random finger pointing.) The "If i flip blue" sentence indicates he's not blue. He's not worried about that situation. Now some more interesting tidbits: "Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first" Not him, aka not vampires. Another unintentional(?) claim. "be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia." Note its OTHER known/suspected vampires, and just known/suspected mafia in general. Perhaps this is a bit picky, but in combination with all of those other slips, its just too much to pass up. Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 03:26 Veldril wrote:On October 15 2010 03:15 Nemesis wrote:On October 14 2010 18:44 Veldril wrote:On October 14 2010 18:28 KhrisKruel wrote:
edit by way of post:
I forgot 4...
Vedril, point 3 and 5 completely contradict each other.
4) all 3 of those people are dead For point 1-2, it just a possibilities. No one knows am I poisoned or protected or not. If I'm poison then only Vampires know, if I'm protected only ghost who protected me knows. You were definitely not protected as you didn't seem to know that people who were protected get pmed. On October 14 2010 13:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If someone is hit and survived I will PM them with that information. If a ghost successfully saves someone I will also PM them.
It's just not public information. Also, why would the ghost protect you? Stop trying to defend yourself as you are just digging yourself a deeper grave. Just be happy that people are considering not killing you today and save you for some other day. Oh, I really skipped that part = =. My bad, sorry. Please skip point 1 then. -.-
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I'm a little hesitant about Veldril because literally all the revealed reds supported lynching him at some point or another.
But it looks like there isn't much other choice.
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On October 16 2010 07:52 kingjames01 wrote:This post lists a lot of great reasons why Veldril is Red... However, it also makes me VERY suspicious about Pandain. If Veldril flips Blue/Green tonight, I'm going to be giving Pandain a very hard look... + Show Spoiler +On October 16 2010 04:48 Pandain wrote:Alright, again, PEOPLE WHO GOT HIT NEED TO CLAIM. Also, Yum Yum analysis Time A Panda Inspectors view into the Veldril VillageSummary:Veldril has been very suscipcious this game. From defending a known vampire, to horrible accusations, to many numerous slips that cannot just be explained by his nationality/coincidence. Veldril has not made any real posts of his thoughts on anyone(besides Yogy, and I've already discussed that.). right now, Veldril in my eyes seems certainly vampire. We should lynch him to lower the vampire kp by one. His posts this game:Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
His first post. Doesn't really say anything, admits its not important. As of now, can be expalined away as being new, but keep an eye on it. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:03 Veldril wrote:
Hey, he's killed by a dagger not sword, lol. And if you buy enough knives then you can literally pierce a person at every spot. Picking at words, trying to laugh it off. This was after some people brought up the possible clues to him Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. The post that set off the fire. Here we see him defend Masq, yet note that it's not as "certain" as some people may make it out to seem. He doesn't say it doesn't apply, he says we need to be more cautious. In my eyes this is a pro town post, however in retrospect we see Masq is vampire. In addition, he warns against this clue because it is "too obvious." Not a very good reason, but not a very bad post. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. Mmmm... warns that an indictator of mafia/vampire could be that they accuse other people if someone is suspected. What I don't like about this post is he doesn't really give any concrete opinions, he has not as of yet. He's giving general advice, without any real opinions. Even the advice is kept in check by his admitting that he's not sure. Show nested quote +On October 11 2010 15:40 Veldril wrote:Oh and by Mafia/Vampire deflecting blame in the first point of my previous post is that if they are lucky, they could kill other side too. For Mafia/Vampire, I think they don't care much about who dies in the first couple of days/nights as long as it's not on their side. Townie dies mean they have less choice to make in the next cycle and if they can force townie to vote to kill the other side, then that would make them even have more profit. Oh and I don't say that Masq is surely not a killer. I just think we need to look further for other clues too before accusing him solely. But he's one of the suspects though. (Maybe I need a ghost in the first night ). Says that mafia/vampire don't really care who dies as long as its not one of them. Alright, but wanna go any further? Here he also clarifies(or does he????) his position on masq, he's suscipcious of him, but thinks we need to look for more clues. Yet he doesn't offer anything! Of course, he could just be lazy, but another thing to note. Also, whats with that last sentence? I'm so confused by that. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction: Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind. That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post. I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? this post is very, very intersting. Let's see a core assumption this post makes: 1. Masq is mafia/vampire
Why?: "I deserve to be suspected for protecting masq." But why, if you think we need to look at other people. Why does protecting masq make you a suspect, unless of course you know he's mafia/vampire. Also he now warns we should be wary of clues, and in retrospect the clue led to Masq being caught. Also, he says "townie like us", but that just seems forced. Very forced. Then he defends his(he admits?!!!) bad post, but defends that by saying "Do you REALLY think I would do the same thing as Ver described?" Using wifom to defend himself, not good. Now for another interesting part of this post: Show nested quote +Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.
I believe this is a slip up. I think it's already been noted, but of course I'm going through all of his posts. He doesn't say "Therefore, Veldril and masq are vampire/mafia", he says "Therefore, veldril and masq are VAMPIRE." Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 00:46 Veldril wrote:
Oh and Bill, I concluded that you are experienced player because you participated in many Mafia game before. You even hosted a game. I checked your post history. OMG NOTE THAT. This is important for a future post of his. He knows how to use search function.Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 02:12 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 02:02 Flicky wrote:
My general opinion on the Whole Masq thing is that he's not doing a great job of defending himself despite it only being day 1.
While it's possible it's "too obvious" to some, as soon as I realised it can't have been a Jack O'Lantern framing, the more it seems that's the only lead.
Seems likely to me and that a possible miss-lynch wouldn't be too much of an issue. After spending time reading rules, I do agree that miss-lynch on the first day is not a big issue. We have 61 players here, with 22 reds. That we have 39 greens/blues. Considering that mafias and vampires each can kill up to 3 people (or have to kill three people I'm not sure, might need clarification on this), we can say that on the first day plus first night, there will be up to 7 people dead. If all dead are hit at townie, then townie will have 32 player left. And worst case would be 7 of either vampire or mafia are killed (only single side), which I believe is very unlikely. This post just states the obvious, simple logic. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:07 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 04:00 Bill Murray wrote:On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction: Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind. That means the clue might hurt townie like us too. Now let me response to Bill Murray's post: On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.
Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.
Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.
This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post. I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not. On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting. Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got. I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea... Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis. Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it. LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this. If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate. If a person defend other person then those people are teammate. Veldril defend Masq Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate. Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire. If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please? my logic is more like this: you said "as mafia, i would defend someone" you said so AFTER defending someone therefore, it is possible you are mafia with them the fact you are squirming and attacking my logic, while calling me an experienced player claiming I have a hidden agenda (which I don't and it's a fucking straight out lie), is making me really really want you to be lynched. You are pretty good for a newbie. Your logic is better than mine. My logic sucks. I don't give a fuck if my logic sucks, though, you have made many fucking mistakes. You are mafia. You are either mafia or a vampire, and I'm going to get you lynched. Sorry. Hmmm, fair enough. You have your points spoken and that's fine for me. Well, maybe I jumped my conclusion that "experienced player = player familiar with logic" so if that's not true then my argument would be unsound. But since we really don't know is it true or not, we could just left it for others to decide. Backs down. I had a pm with Dr. H that one of the major scum tells is someone accusing/making a point, then backing down. Now, obviously townies can do this all the time, but it points towards a scum. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:21 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 04:16 orgolove wrote:https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ap0Ejzlf165MdENWM3p1cHNOcDlnT0o4bjNUUFdVMlE&hl=en&output=htmlSo far we have a few people who have had several tells. These may not be conclusive, but just putting it out there: jodogohoo-"what is mafia" pretended to be noob, changed vote multiple times 1st day Masq-apart from profile matching the clue, immediately agreed with Veldril when defended aztrorisk-strongly accused shmotz, switched to masq when others started, defended glasse when his hammer profile pic was mentioned Bill Murray-happy to kill coagulation/masq, posted PMs with aztorisk (!!!) - untrustworthy? And we can see that most of the votes are against these few. Now, I don't understand the following votes: ShmotZ - 1 - KtheZ - (L-30) seRapH - 2 - NB, coagulation - (L-29) coagulation - 3 - seRapH, deconduo, jcarlsoniv - (L-28) These votes can't be explained by the newbie logic of "he voted for me, so I'm voting for him" What's interesting to note is, seraph accused coagulation, then NB and coagulation voted Seraph back. Also, I haven't seen jcarlsoniv or deconduo post in this thread, only in the voting thread. These might be from the same faction- I dunno... Deconduo has posted once. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453¤tpage=17#327 alright, we've already established he knows how to use the search function. But then, why did he mislabel the number of posts Deconduo has made? Either: 1. He can't count.
2.Theres an ulterior motive. I'm going to leave this open to interperation, as I'm not sure myself. Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 19:02 Veldril wrote:
It seems most people are out for my blood now.
I feel like now when I try to defend or propose something up, most people will come up with even more excuses to vote me. It seems I really made a grudge with Bill Murray, since he's the most vocal to get me killed. I don't really understand why you would want me to get lynched so badly. I would shift a vote off you if you have explain the reason why do you think "defending others" would mean "Red defends Red".
Also, I feel that either me or Masq get lynched, it would not be a good situation for Townie or me at all. If Masq get lynched and turn out to be red, people would still suspect me and that could hurt townie since they would spend their focus on me being red and I would still get fried. If Masq turn out to be green, I don't think some people will let me go free without discrediting me, therefore I could not make impact in the future day/night.
However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over. It may seems cowardice but I will have to vote for Masq to save myself. I just wish that Masq indeed turns out to be green.
Here he explains his vote for Masq. Note some key things in this statement. Now, he says he's from Thailand, and I believe he is(thus, english not first language.) But these should still be noted. "It would not be a good situation for townie OR ME." Indicating he's not townie. "However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over." Is he soft claiming blue? I'm confuzzled. I don't think he's blue, he would've said something by now. Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 00:45 Veldril wrote:On October 12 2010 23:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 12 2010 22:42 CubEdIn wrote:
I don't get this bandwaggoning that's going on.
WHY is Veldril more important than Masq? We are only voting for him BECAUSE he tried to defend Masq, so if we're voting for him, then we just assume that Masq is also M/V. Correct?
So why not be methodical about it, and start with Masq? If he proves to be a Mafia/Vamp, then we'll know for sure that so is Veldril. If not, then our whole premise was wrong and we should rethink our steps.
How is this an issue? WHY VELDRIL FIRST?
I don't get the reasoning here. I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much. I find it odd with your observation here. When I attack BM's argument back then, I attacked him quite aggressively to make his logic fall apart. Every time I try to defend my position, he respond very aggressively so I have to try other methods to back my argument, which is what make he thinks that by protecting Masq is equal to we teaming up and be on the same team. He still doesn't response me and when orglove try to press him at this point, he also react aggressively. Also, if most people start accusing you, wouldn't you want to prove your innocence. Since I don't have proof and I don't want to point finger randomly (only to BM now). That's why I stated in the previous post, every attempt of me defending myself looks like I make a bad post as a red, and every aggressive move toward me is a good post or good observation for some people. Doesn't it weird? Final note, please look at where I come from. You have to consider cultural and personality impact on making arguments too, because sometimes Asian countries have different way to answer. In Thailand, it is most of the time considered polite to be passive when someone make an argument against you. We also consider our false directly in logical argument so we would not misjudge or build a better argument. Softly(at least) accuses BM. claims he doesn't want to point fingers randomly, but then says (only to BM now.) Defends his "playstyle" by saying wheres he from. Eh... Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...
If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.
Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.
All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night.
This post basically claims vampire. First off "I think that people now are 100% sure of my role right now."
Listen to his reasons for not lynching him:
1. We want to keep vampire/mafia numbers even. Basically claimed vampire there.
2. Lynching me now would only help mafia. Another indictation.
Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 16:42 Veldril wrote:
Don't jump your conclusion yet. There are several reasons that I did not die on Night 2.
1. A ghost protected me.
2. I have been poisoned, therefore will be death the next night.
3. It is better to keep me alive because I have drawn too much attention upon myself.
4. Bum and Youngminii and LSB are better target to kill than me, because they fervently wanted me to get lynched on day 1.
5. It is better to get me lynched than wasting night action/kill on me, especially when many people suspecting me as a vampire. Alright, this is just a horrible post. First off, he would've claimed a ghost protected him, he can't know if he's been poisoned, and Bum really didn't "ferevantly" want you to get lynched. Also, if you've drawn too much attention to yourself, obviously you've done something wrong. It's true perhaps mafia wants us just to kill veldril via lynching, but personally I would still be okay with it because it lowers the vampire kp by one. Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 19:06 Veldril wrote:On October 14 2010 18:56 KhrisKruel wrote:On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...
If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.
Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.
All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night. Can you explain this? If you were a townie, how would your death strengthen the mafia? To me this is basically a vampire claim Basically, it is because by lynching me, Mafia has nothing to lose. If I'm green, it just at worst a miss but they would not lose a member and maintain 2 more members than a vampire. They can even trace back and analyze to find more possible vampire's member by looking at voting and posting on day 1 relating to accusing me. If I'm a vampire, then basically they reduce the KP of vampire down by 1, and has 3 more members than vampire. That means vampire would be less likely to kill Mafia on Night 2 because they can only kill 2 people, while mafia can kill 3 . In this case (lynching me and I turn out to be a vampire), assuming that they both kill each others perfectly, vampire would be reduce to 4 people but Mafia would be only reduce 8, gaining even more leading. explanation. Show nested quote +On October 14 2010 23:55 Veldril wrote:Whether I'm a vampire or not is not a problem right now. The issue is that by lynching me today, Mafias would gain advantages over Town and Vampire. If I flip green, they use previous vote to trace back who is vampire. Even if they miss on night 2, there would still have suspects list that could be used later to fish out vampire. It could also put a townie who vote for me on day 1 in danger. If I flip blue, well... I think I don't have to explain how this would affect town. If I flip vampire, they gain a lot of advantage as I explained in the previous post. Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first. And when vampire and mafia number are approximately equal, then town can choose the course of action at that point, be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now let me presented a possible Mafia player that we should vote for today: YogyThe reasons that we should lynch this person are: 1. He voted Masq without posting anything before. If he's Mafia, then he would know that Masq is not on his team. Voting Masq, whom the clue implied to be a killer, would be the best vote to get rid of a vampire. The date and time he voted Masq is On October 11 2010 16:37 Yogy wrote:
Vote Masq http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=65593762. Later, he came up with this post: On October 13 2010 01:41 Yogy wrote:
I've been pretty inactive in posting I confess, new to this and trying to get the hang of it. No one has been telling me what to do or who to vote to lynch, I've come to that decision myself. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6572368Why would someone tell that there's no one telling him what to do or vote if he acted independently? If he indeed acted independently, he should have a reason why he voted for Masq, may it be he is so sure about the clue or else. Moreover, he posted this after someone compile the number of posts each player made. For me, it is very suspicious. 3. He is always inactive. Except the post I quote above, he make no other posts at all. By voting him right now would force him to be more active and we could get more information out of him that would benefit town. Therefore, with these three reasons above, I placed my vote on Yogy. To me this is just trying to change the direction of the bandwagon on him onto another player. Except its not a very good argument for lynching Yogy(no clues apply we can see, alot of people are inactive, and i thought you said you don't like random finger pointing.) The "If i flip blue" sentence indicates he's not blue. He's not worried about that situation. Now some more interesting tidbits: "Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first" Not him, aka not vampires. Another unintentional(?) claim. "be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia." Note its OTHER known/suspected vampires, and just known/suspected mafia in general. Perhaps this is a bit picky, but in combination with all of those other slips, its just too much to pass up. Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 03:26 Veldril wrote:On October 15 2010 03:15 Nemesis wrote:On October 14 2010 18:44 Veldril wrote:On October 14 2010 18:28 KhrisKruel wrote:
edit by way of post:
I forgot 4...
Vedril, point 3 and 5 completely contradict each other.
4) all 3 of those people are dead For point 1-2, it just a possibilities. No one knows am I poisoned or protected or not. If I'm poison then only Vampires know, if I'm protected only ghost who protected me knows. You were definitely not protected as you didn't seem to know that people who were protected get pmed. On October 14 2010 13:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If someone is hit and survived I will PM them with that information. If a ghost successfully saves someone I will also PM them.
It's just not public information. Also, why would the ghost protect you? Stop trying to defend yourself as you are just digging yourself a deeper grave. Just be happy that people are considering not killing you today and save you for some other day. Oh, I really skipped that part = =. My bad, sorry. Please skip point 1 then. -.-
"Great reasons, I'll support you."
"However, if he turns green/blue, despite the fact I thought your analysis very well, despite the fact I voted for the same person, and despite the fact you basically just summarized the case on Vendril and didn't even start it(in fact, wanted masq lynched before vendril), I'm going to take a hard look at you."
Please, give reasons why. If someone shows sufficient proof Vendril isn't mafia/vampire, say it. Otherwise, this is just a doomsday trap for me if he is green.
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i think pandain is mad because his godfather was killed
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I'm going to vote Veldril, gotten someway through the thread so far, but about to go to sleep and don't want to miss voting (getting modkilled just as I sub in would be an unwelcome irony )
I have to say though, and this is entirely an "on the surface" evaluation, I'm quite surprised thatthe Veldril lynch is being supported so unanimously, the evidence against him doesn't to me seem warranting of such a strong response, but hey as I say that's mostly just my reaction to reading Pandain's post which has been linked as surmising the arguments against Veldy well.
I'll delve further into reading through the thread when I wake up tomorrow, and expect to have at least skim read it fully by then.
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On October 16 2010 08:09 XeliN wrote:I'm going to vote Veldril, gotten someway through the thread so far, but about to go to sleep and don't want to miss voting (getting modkilled just as I sub in would be an unwelcome irony ) I have to say though, and this is entirely an "on the surface" evaluation, I'm quite surprised thatthe Veldril lynch is being supported so unanimously, the evidence against him doesn't to me seem warranting of such a strong response, but hey as I say that's mostly just my reaction to reading Pandain's post which has been linked as surmising the arguments against Veldy well. I'll delve further into reading through the thread when I wake up tomorrow, and expect to have at least skim read it fully by then.
theres also some stuff I left out, most notably the clue portion which relates to him "my body was made out of unlimited swords."
Speaking of, Mad scientist, I hope you checked that midnight jog clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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There's absolutely no reason for the frankenstein to claim if he got hit. However, saying that he was saved is fine.
It would be useful to know the flavor of whoever tried to kill him...if it was vamps we know he's not a vamp, and if it was mafia we know he's not a mafia. There's just no reason to divulge the reason he/she was saved.
Public knowledge of how many ghosts there are in the game really only helps the scum.
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i dont know why you guys keep doubting whether hes red or not. its not like talking about it so going to change everyones vote. we should be thinking about the consequences of whether hes red or not. His teammates all know hes a goner so inital posts that support him or masq are important and not the ones that show up recently. If he isnt red.....
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if he isnt red, he can be green or blue
if he is green he doesnt care
if he is blue he would of roleclaimed with proofs
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On October 16 2010 08:09 XeliN wrote:I'm going to vote Veldril, gotten someway through the thread so far, but about to go to sleep and don't want to miss voting (getting modkilled just as I sub in would be an unwelcome irony ) I have to say though, and this is entirely an "on the surface" evaluation, I'm quite surprised thatthe Veldril lynch is being supported so unanimously, the evidence against him doesn't to me seem warranting of such a strong response, but hey as I say that's mostly just my reaction to reading Pandain's post which has been linked as surmising the arguments against Veldy well. I'll delve further into reading through the thread when I wake up tomorrow, and expect to have at least skim read it fully by then.
yes for this reason alone i think it's a terrible lynch and i wont be voting for him. Tbh i havent had a whole load of time to skim through all the pages of madness in the game since i was subbed in  but if someone has everyone on their ass with no real defense and terrible logic going after the lynch odds are they arent red
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like are all of you so naive to think someone would openly protect a member of their own faction so blatantly?
it's TERRIBLE reasoning that almost never leads to a correct lynch. Who knows maybe we'll get lucky and lynch a mafia but the odds of veldril being vampire are sooo slim just based on how he acted about masq and the general consensus of everyone wagoning him so easily.
it's impossible for me to fingering anyone because you're all sheeping on this without looking at the grand scheme of things and instead trying LOOK for ways to paint him red -_-
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On October 16 2010 09:04 Divinek wrote:
like are all of you so naive to think someone would openly protect a member of their own faction so blatantly?
it's TERRIBLE reasoning that almost never leads to a correct lynch. Who knows maybe we'll get lucky and lynch a mafia but the odds of veldril being vampire are sooo slim just based on how he acted about masq and the general consensus of everyone wagoning him so easily.
it's impossible for me to fingering anyone because you're all sheeping on this without looking at the grand scheme of things and instead trying LOOK for ways to paint him red -_-
On October 13 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:03 bumatlarge wrote:
RE-READ THREAD: MASQ SHOULD BE LYNCHED
I must have misread somewhere on the veldril and masq debate, but going back, masq is the obvious lynch here.
1. He has clues pointing to him that seem a little obvious, but they are clear clues regarding something.
2. Veldril defended him, so we may have a lead if masq pops scum.
3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. What if he isn't scum? Then we have absolutely no lead to go from. We'll be put off from voting Veldril and the vote lists mean squat. I don't want to rely on clues (might be because of my lack of experience in clue based games), I'd rather play this out from behaviour. Veldril is much more obvious than Masq in behaviour. Veldril defended him yet Masq voted for Veldril. What does this mean? I don't want to think about it. Call me naive but I really don't think Masq is scum. I mean if I was new to this game and I had such an important role, I'd be defending myself (using crap arguments since I'm new) to death. Masq is not doing this. On the other hand, Veldril is. (refer to my earlier post) I implore you to change your vote to Veldril, I don't care what these 'clues' say, if they're as obvious as the jack-o-lantern thing then all the other clues would be just as obvious. I'm pretty sure DoctorHelvetica isn't stupid enough to make one clue blindingly obvious and all the others vague as hell. And yes, I am defending Masq and accusing Veldril.
On October 13 2010 08:41 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:37 CubEdIn wrote:On October 13 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote:On October 13 2010 08:03 bumatlarge wrote:
RE-READ THREAD: MASQ SHOULD BE LYNCHED
I must have misread somewhere on the veldril and masq debate, but going back, masq is the obvious lynch here.
1. He has clues pointing to him that seem a little obvious, but they are clear clues regarding something.
2. Veldril defended him, so we may have a lead if masq pops scum.
3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. What if he isn't scum? Then we have absolutely no lead to go from. We'll be put off from voting Veldril and the vote lists mean squat. I don't want to rely on clues (might be because of my lack of experience in clue based games), I'd rather play this out from behaviour. Veldril is much more obvious than Masq in behaviour. Veldril defended him yet Masq voted for Veldril. What does this mean? I don't want to think about it. Call me naive but I really don't think Masq is scum. I mean if I was new to this game and I had such an important role, I'd be defending myself (using crap arguments since I'm new) to death. Masq is not doing this. On the other hand, Veldril is. (refer to my earlier post) I implore you to change your vote to Veldril, I don't care what these 'clues' say, if they're as obvious as the jack-o-lantern thing then all the other clues would be just as obvious. I'm pretty sure DoctorHelvetica isn't stupid enough to make one clue blindingly obvious and all the others vague as hell. And yes, I am defending Masq and accusing Veldril. I'm one of the people who stood by my vote for Masq since the beginning, and I noticed something, which may be a coincidence. Everytime we zoned in on Masq, something happened to made ppl lose focus. First it was Veldril, then azo, and so on. All the while Masq is saying NOTHING, but voting. And it's easy to go and defend Masq when there's way you'll be lynched before the end of day. And I'm one of the people who stood by Masq from the beginning, maybe not as strong as you wanted him lynched but I never had my vote on him. When the Masq bandwagon started I didn't want to jump on because it happened out of nowhere and Masq didn't even make that many posts. Then the Veldril bandwagon started and I put my vote on him as a placeholder kind of thing. Then Veldril makes a series of posts that are very, very questionable. Now I'm strongly against Veldril and I'm supporting Masq on the basis of his posting behaviour, not some silly clues that are unreliable at best. And no, it isn't easy to defend Masq even though I won't be lynched today. What's going to happen if he IS scum? I'll be put under suspicion or targeted by the other scum team since I'll be seen as 'Masq's ally'. Am I willing to get lynched for him? No, but I'm willing to bet that I'm right on this.
On October 13 2010 08:43 youngminii wrote:
ebwop
by the last sentence i meant that i'm sure veldril's a better lynch candidate than masq
add to the fact that like 75% of this game are new players, so of course they could be prone to mistakes. What, do you think vampires would just let their bretheren fall without any attempt of saving them?
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On October 16 2010 09:20 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 09:04 Divinek wrote:
like are all of you so naive to think someone would openly protect a member of their own faction so blatantly?
it's TERRIBLE reasoning that almost never leads to a correct lynch. Who knows maybe we'll get lucky and lynch a mafia but the odds of veldril being vampire are sooo slim just based on how he acted about masq and the general consensus of everyone wagoning him so easily.
it's impossible for me to fingering anyone because you're all sheeping on this without looking at the grand scheme of things and instead trying LOOK for ways to paint him red -_-
Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote:On October 13 2010 08:03 bumatlarge wrote:
RE-READ THREAD: MASQ SHOULD BE LYNCHED
I must have misread somewhere on the veldril and masq debate, but going back, masq is the obvious lynch here.
1. He has clues pointing to him that seem a little obvious, but they are clear clues regarding something.
2. Veldril defended him, so we may have a lead if masq pops scum.
3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. What if he isn't scum? Then we have absolutely no lead to go from. We'll be put off from voting Veldril and the vote lists mean squat. I don't want to rely on clues (might be because of my lack of experience in clue based games), I'd rather play this out from behaviour. Veldril is much more obvious than Masq in behaviour. Veldril defended him yet Masq voted for Veldril. What does this mean? I don't want to think about it. Call me naive but I really don't think Masq is scum. I mean if I was new to this game and I had such an important role, I'd be defending myself (using crap arguments since I'm new) to death. Masq is not doing this. On the other hand, Veldril is. (refer to my earlier post) I implore you to change your vote to Veldril, I don't care what these 'clues' say, if they're as obvious as the jack-o-lantern thing then all the other clues would be just as obvious. I'm pretty sure DoctorHelvetica isn't stupid enough to make one clue blindingly obvious and all the others vague as hell. And yes, I am defending Masq and accusing Veldril. Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:41 youngminii wrote:On October 13 2010 08:37 CubEdIn wrote:On October 13 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote:On October 13 2010 08:03 bumatlarge wrote:
RE-READ THREAD: MASQ SHOULD BE LYNCHED
I must have misread somewhere on the veldril and masq debate, but going back, masq is the obvious lynch here.
1. He has clues pointing to him that seem a little obvious, but they are clear clues regarding something.
2. Veldril defended him, so we may have a lead if masq pops scum.
3. The vote lists will help us massively on fishing out opposing faction
Masq is my vote, and if hes scum, then we can sift through the current list of masq people for his opposite faction. What if he isn't scum? Then we have absolutely no lead to go from. We'll be put off from voting Veldril and the vote lists mean squat. I don't want to rely on clues (might be because of my lack of experience in clue based games), I'd rather play this out from behaviour. Veldril is much more obvious than Masq in behaviour. Veldril defended him yet Masq voted for Veldril. What does this mean? I don't want to think about it. Call me naive but I really don't think Masq is scum. I mean if I was new to this game and I had such an important role, I'd be defending myself (using crap arguments since I'm new) to death. Masq is not doing this. On the other hand, Veldril is. (refer to my earlier post) I implore you to change your vote to Veldril, I don't care what these 'clues' say, if they're as obvious as the jack-o-lantern thing then all the other clues would be just as obvious. I'm pretty sure DoctorHelvetica isn't stupid enough to make one clue blindingly obvious and all the others vague as hell. And yes, I am defending Masq and accusing Veldril. I'm one of the people who stood by my vote for Masq since the beginning, and I noticed something, which may be a coincidence. Everytime we zoned in on Masq, something happened to made ppl lose focus. First it was Veldril, then azo, and so on. All the while Masq is saying NOTHING, but voting. And it's easy to go and defend Masq when there's way you'll be lynched before the end of day. And I'm one of the people who stood by Masq from the beginning, maybe not as strong as you wanted him lynched but I never had my vote on him. When the Masq bandwagon started I didn't want to jump on because it happened out of nowhere and Masq didn't even make that many posts. Then the Veldril bandwagon started and I put my vote on him as a placeholder kind of thing. Then Veldril makes a series of posts that are very, very questionable. Now I'm strongly against Veldril and I'm supporting Masq on the basis of his posting behaviour, not some silly clues that are unreliable at best. And no, it isn't easy to defend Masq even though I won't be lynched today. What's going to happen if he IS scum? I'll be put under suspicion or targeted by the other scum team since I'll be seen as 'Masq's ally'. Am I willing to get lynched for him? No, but I'm willing to bet that I'm right on this. Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 08:43 youngminii wrote:
ebwop
by the last sentence i meant that i'm sure veldril's a better lynch candidate than masq add to the fact that like 75% of this game are new players, so of course they could be prone to mistakes. What, do you think vampires would just let their bretheren fall without any attempt of saving them?
lol if the town doesn't lynch you, one of the reds is going to kill you, your so damn obvious it's funny =)
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EPT
