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On August 21 2010 02:45 rastaban wrote:
Darkness is a horrible town role, and if taken should never be used. If someone uses it knowingly they should be lynched immediately. The reason is it denies town information and it keeps a lynch from occurring. It is no different than having everyone come in and voting abstain.
Elaborate? I agree it should only be used in extreme situations(such as some SK's dead...more blue's not shooting other blue's due to misinformation/guessing) However I do see some potential in such circumstances where we can quickly get vital info.
However...if the threat of mafia gets to great or SK's are too rampant or we don't have good roles, than I agree it should never be used.
Alignment cop checks someone, Jack of all Trades also checks same person. We find out whether alignment cop is verified or not.
This doesn't work as mafia can get this role too, though we can find out if he is insane etc (or is that what you meant).
Whoops...that's what I meant. We find out whether he is insane or not. Combine that with darkness(TO BE DECIDED, and if we have compulsive vigi or the such, and even then risky.) and we will have a town circle after the first night.
Again, these are ALL ideas. Just commenting on them as we haven't even picked roles yet n.n
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Information about the Traitor role updated in the OP
Information about the Bullet Bill role updated in the OP under the Questions section
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On August 21 2010 02:51 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:45 rastaban wrote:
Darkness is a horrible town role, and if taken should never be used. If someone uses it knowingly they should be lynched immediately. The reason is it denies town information and it keeps a lynch from occurring. It is no different than having everyone come in and voting abstain. Elaborate? I agree it should only be used in extreme situations(such as some SK's dead...more blue's not shooting other blue's due to misinformation/guessing) However I do see some potential in such circumstances where we can quickly get vital info. However...if the threat of mafia gets to great or SK's are too rampant or we don't have good roles, than I agree it should never be used. Show nested quote +
Alignment cop checks someone, Jack of all Trades also checks same person. We find out whether alignment cop is verified or not.
This doesn't work as mafia can get this role too, though we can find out if he is insane etc (or is that what you meant).
Whoops...that's what I meant. We find out whether he is insane or not. Combine that with darkness(TO BE DECIDED, and if we have compulsive vigi or the such, and even then risky.) and we will have a town circle after the first night. Again, these are ALL ideas. Just commenting on them as we haven't even picked roles yet n.n
I guess I can't see where it is ever useful (well maybe 1 but it is so far out there that I don't consider it) to the town.Darkness eliminates a whole day phase, that includes a lynch and discussion. The town always wants more time, but this doesn't do that, it eliminates discussion making it easier for mafia to hide, and eliminates lynches, the only real way town has of killing mafia (except for some possible night roles). How are you ever seeing this used for the towns benefit? The town could always just not reach majority if for some reason we wanted to to waste a lynch (this should be never though)
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On August 21 2010 03:06 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 02:51 Pandain wrote:On August 21 2010 02:45 rastaban wrote:
Darkness is a horrible town role, and if taken should never be used. If someone uses it knowingly they should be lynched immediately. The reason is it denies town information and it keeps a lynch from occurring. It is no different than having everyone come in and voting abstain. Elaborate? I agree it should only be used in extreme situations(such as some SK's dead...more blue's not shooting other blue's due to misinformation/guessing) However I do see some potential in such circumstances where we can quickly get vital info. However...if the threat of mafia gets to great or SK's are too rampant or we don't have good roles, than I agree it should never be used.
Alignment cop checks someone, Jack of all Trades also checks same person. We find out whether alignment cop is verified or not.
This doesn't work as mafia can get this role too, though we can find out if he is insane etc (or is that what you meant).
Whoops...that's what I meant. We find out whether he is insane or not. Combine that with darkness(TO BE DECIDED, and if we have compulsive vigi or the such, and even then risky.) and we will have a town circle after the first night. Again, these are ALL ideas. Just commenting on them as we haven't even picked roles yet n.n I guess I can't see where it is ever useful (well maybe 1 but it is so far out there that I don't consider it) to the town.Darkness eliminates a whole day phase, that includes a lynch and discussion. The town always wants more time, but this doesn't do that, it eliminates discussion making it easier for mafia to hide, and eliminates lynches, the only real way town has of killing mafia (except for some possible night roles). How are you ever seeing this used for the towns benefit? The town could always just not reach majority if for some reason we wanted to to waste a lynch (this should be never though)
I see your point now, and I take back using Darkness, even in rare circumstances. I thought of Darkness as a way of getting info from blue's quickly(via two actions in a night) but I failed to realize that it still means that we won't have a day phase, meaning it'll be as if it was night two, but without the day lynch. So in affect, we'll have less info.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK, lets get the ball rolling here. First things first: Roles.
I've divided the roles into several categories, first is essential town roles. These are roles that we absolutely have to have. This is a 20 person game, and the mafia have a KP of one. SK also has a KP of 1. CompVig has a KP of 1, Town has lynch power of 1. This means 4 deaths per night, so we get 4 days before we're in trouble. Given this fact, we need as much investigative power as possible. This is how we will win the game.
Essential Roles(Investigative)
Role Cop - GF
Watcher - GF, Mafia, SK
Tracker - GF, Mafia, SK
Joat - Mafia
Bullet Bill - GF, Mafia, SK
You may have noticed that Alignment Cop is not on this essential list. This is for two reasons. The sanity of the Alignment Cop is unknown, and the Alignment Cop cannot find either the Godfather, or the Serial Killer. Of those five roles, Watcher, Tracker and Bullet Bill are the most important, due to the fact they can find the Godfather and the Serial Killer. I cannot stress enough that these are the most important pro-town roles in the game. Yes there are a lot of roles that seem cooler or more fun, but these five roles are what will win us the game.
Second is the Mafia roles:
These are roles that are fantastic in mafia hands, mediocre or downright useless in Town hands:
KP roles
Comp Vig
Bad Santa
Vengeful Player
Day Vig
Other
Floridian
God Father
Role Blocker
Pardoner
A few of these may stand out as being neutral as opposed to pro-mafia, but don't be fooled. ANYTHING that adds additional KP to the game is bad for the town. Why? Obviously first and foremost because they hasten the end of the game for the town, considering that town players have a very bad track record with extraneous KP. Second, not only does a missed shot eliminate a town player, it also eliminates a Power Role. Every player should be assumed to have a role, which means if a town player uses KP and misses, we may lose a vital role for the town. We have lynches as town, so lets kill players that way.
Comp Vig: I've bolded CompVig in that list for a very good reason. I believe that this role is perhaps the most important in the game. In unknown hands (mafia hands) CompVig doubles the Mafia KP. In known hands(Town or Mafia) the CompVig doubles our lynch Power. Each day we vote on who the compvig will hit that night. IE, CompVig: Qatol. In PYP1, the CompVig was held by a mafia, but it didn't matter, because he followed the town direction and killed who we wanted killed. If the CompVig doesn't follow our direction they die.
Yes, in PYP1 the CV only hit townies, but he hit scummy townies that were up for lynch, instead of hitting townies who were playing pro-town. This is a huge difference.
I propose that whomever gets 1st pick takes CV. To not take CV as first pick is, in my eyes, extremely anti-town. We absolutely MUST know who has this role. Once we know, the power of the role is neutralized.
Bad Santa is the other important role on this list, and is the most useful role on the list for town to have because it has a hint of investigative power, and gives information to the town.
The other 6 roles are all pro-mafia roles. Some people are saying we as town should try to take these roles so that mafia cannot get them. I disagree with that sentiment. The better route to go, is to have every pro-town player avoid these roles like the plague(with the exception of CV). This means that our Role Cop(already essential for town), becomes a super cop. Because anyone who has any of those 6/7 roles is automatically a mafia member. None of those 6/7 roles are powerful enough to warrant us blocking the mafia from getting them, so we should steer clear of them and give ourselves a bonus on investigation. Also, by leaving DayVig, Bad Santa and Vengeful Player(??) for the mafia to take, it makes Bullet Bill much stronger by him not getting confused by pro-town players with guns.
Other Good Roles for Town
Alignment Cop
Bulletproof
Veteran
Meth Man
Doctor
Doctor
These roles don't really need any explanation. They are all much more pro-town then pro-mafia.
This leaves the last three(unless I missed some):
Mason
Martyr
Copy Cat
Mason is powerful in the right hands. Martyr is so-so. Copy Cat is not real important in my eyes, given that we start with a lynch, so the mafia can't snipe the CV and then scoop it up. However, if we lynch someone on Day 1 who is Vanilla, then we run the risk of having mafia take the CV via the Copy Cat, which would be very bad for the town. For this reason, I think we should have whoever is at pick #5 be responsible for taking Copy Cat. Thoughts?
If mafia chooses to take the pro-mafia roles, that's great. It gives us more effective investigative powers. If mafia chooses to avoid the pro-mafia roles, that's also great, as it keeps the most effective power roles from the mafia.
We should probably have some way of divvying up the 5 essential roles so that we know they all get taken. Possibly divide the first 15 draft picks into 5 groups of 3, and give each group 1 of the essential roles. 1-3 Role Cop, 4-6 Tracker, 7-9 Watcher, etc. Then whichever player wants an investigative role knows which one they can pick. IE, the 7th player wants an investigative role, so he knows that his option is watcher. Something like that. Thoughts?
To recap: We prioritize the essential 5 roles for town and make sure they get taken, no town players take any of the pro-mafia roles, first draft pick takes CV, 5th draft pick takes Copy Cat.
The town has the advantage in this set-up, we just have to be smart enough to use it.
Please address as many points here as you can. Agree or Disagree. This is when we make our plan for the entire game.
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I would have to disagree about Vengeful Player. As long as the VP keeps their cool, they can make the choice to kill or not to kill. If we somehow end up being split between the VP and another player, we can have both of them die. As well, if we're stuck in a 1 mafia 2 townie situation, VP claims and we lynch them. Thus we get two shots at killing the mafia as opposed to one. (We still win if only 1 villager and 0 maf are left standing) If a mafia decides to somehow counter claim VP in any situation where they claim, we have a good lynch target for once we get multiple suspects. VP is very useful and can act as a normal townie if they choose meaning it's a pro-town role.
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Another small point but pardoner can be good if they're in town circle. If somehow mafioso starts a lynch against a townie that the circle knows is confirmed (if town circle has no huge town influence yet) then pardoner can pardon, thus being confirmed as a townie and then be the mouthpiece for town circle. Circumstantially dependent but has potential to be very good. The only problem is the pardoner has to keep their cool.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Obviously Prince of Darkness and Traitor are pro-mafia/anti-town roles and belong in the red list.
Also, numbers/draft order don't matter. Last game we pegged mafia because they didn't overlap numbers, and they were spaced out. Obviously that only works once, and mafia either will or will not choose to overlap their numbers, or space out their numbers. It's all WIFOM now, so becomes irrelevant. I could care less where I land, and any other town player should as well(or mafia for that matter). With a good plan in place, it really doesn't matter where the mafia land in the draft order.
I forgot to mention the Serial Killer.
Serial Killer, you need to be playing pro-town. If you start eliminating pro-town players, mafia will win, and YOU WILL LOSE. The only situation where the SK can win is if you first eliminate the mafia. Also, consider, that if you play pro-town enough, you can start to soak up hits from the mafia as they try to NK you. This is a very good thing for you. Until at least 2 mafia are dead, you want to play pro-town.
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Radfield, I haven't gotten to read your whole post yet, but I did want to let you know the watcher this game is not the same as in most games "at night you can choose to watch a player and receive information in the form of how many people visited the target that night." so it looks like he only gets a number and not any roles, you will see on my list that I have it rated fairly low for this reason. I think it is a fairly useless role for all teams. I am sure there are ways it could be used but off hand knowing if 1 or 5 people visited someone at night isn't very useful.
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by what Radfield has said I guess we shouldn't be number claiming.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 21 2010 03:46 SouthRawrea wrote:
Another small point but pardoner can be good if they're in town circle. If somehow mafioso starts a lynch against a townie that the circle knows is confirmed (if town circle has no huge town influence yet) then pardoner can pardon, thus being confirmed as a townie and then be the mouthpiece for town circle. Circumstantially dependent but has potential to be very good. The only problem is the pardoner has to keep their cool.
There are no PM's this game. No PM's means any town circle is out in the open anyways. Yes there is a Mason, but he can't make a circle.
On August 21 2010 03:42 SouthRawrea wrote:
I would have to disagree about Vengeful Player. As long as the VP keeps their cool, they can make the choice to kill or not to kill. If we somehow end up being split between the VP and another player, we can have both of them die. As well, if we're stuck in a 1 mafia 2 townie situation, VP claims and we lynch them. Thus we get two shots at killing the mafia as opposed to one. (We still win if only 1 villager and 0 maf are left standing) If a mafia decides to somehow counter claim VP in any situation where they claim, we have a good lynch target for once we get multiple suspects. VP is very useful and can act as a normal townie if they choose meaning it's a pro-town role.
A pro-town Vengeful Player should never, ever use their kill. No town player should ever use additional KP, other than the CV. The repercussions for being wrong are far too large in this set-up. If you are wrong, you just killed a blue role. Not worth the guess. We decide on lynches and CV hits as a town, and that's that. Not to mention that VP is far less useful then the many other pro-town roles.
Good feedback though, keep it coming.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
@ACE, does the vengeful player show up to Bullet Bill?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also @ACE, does Meth Man explode the first time that someone visits? So a role cop checks the Meth Man Night 1, do the role cop and Meth Man both die? Or does the Meth Man only explode when someone with KP tries to take him out, and then everyone who visited that night dies?
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Hmm... that was a really interesting read Radfield. I'll address my thoughts I suppose.
1. Controlling the Compulsive Vigi and making him do the town's will is a very good plan. This way even if he is mafia, than we can still force him to do what we want. However, I just want you to clarify why it will be good despite what I am about to say.
Sure the town might have extra kp, but that all revolves around the fact that we would get the right hit. If we miss, than all it does is hurt the town.
That's why I think that if we don't have a sure fire hit or something, we should have the roleblocker block the Comp Vigi on that night. Slight modification that only helps the town.
That's where the roleblocker will be valuable, again imo should be taken.
2. Alignment cop I feel can be VERY useful. I disagree with him being a less than optimal townie role. While you are right that he cannot find GF or Serial Killer, there are more scum than there are GF's. Alignment cop, if we find out his sanity(which I think he could probably find out on his own in a couple days, less if we use a plan[Joat+Alignment Cop combo]) in my opinion might be the best role.
It seems to me alot of your "essential list" revolves around the fact they can find the GF/Serial killer. Yet what if they choose not to get GF? Even if they do, its only one scum out of many. Alignment cop would be better for general purposes.
3.We don't have to worry about Vengeful player adding kp, as we would've already lynched a mafia by then.
4.Also, by leaving DayVig, Bad Santa and Vengeful Player(??) for the mafia to take, it makes Bullet Bill much stronger by him not getting confused by pro-town players with guns.
Like this idea. Already outlined my thoughts on VP. I suppose the day vig should be left for the mafia to take. Unsure...elaborate on why we'd rather have mafia than town have it? Just so bullet bill is stronger? I might agree, just want to hear some more on this.
5. Why #5 take copycat. Really would like to hear why this specific number
6. You say the watcher and tracker are on the essential list, but I don't see why those are better than other roles. Sure, they can find GF and we should probably have one of them, but scum have roles to don't they? Bit unsure as to what will happen if tracker tracks mafia with role. Will have to check.
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Also, does this mean I shouldn't take mason 
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 21 2010 02:26 rastaban wrote:Oh, also I wanted to get this LIST out, it is the power roles as I see them. This doesn't incorporate the value of denying a role since that would make it much harder to rate these and will depend on the person. So a role like GF is bad for town good for mafia, but it might be worth taking to deny mafia the role. One of the things we really need to decide is how we want to play this round and what information to reveal, Is it better for town to deny powerful roles from the mafia or to get powerful town roles instead. Obviously we will need to balance this out but looking at the extreme ends of things can really help with deciding how we want to do this.
Normally Mafia KP is to be 1/10 of total players, in this case it would be 2. and drop down once enough were dead. The game is counting on the mafia getting roles to compensate for this. Meaning if we can deny them the roles they want the town will be almost guaranteed to win.
If instead we go for critical town power roles we make it hard for mafia to hide since we can lynch anything anti-town. (framers and GFs etc). and if we coordinate well we have so many blues, that even with their power roles the mafia won't be able to keep up. Now we aren't picking roles yet, just numbers but I wanted to get these ideas out there for town who haven't been able to review the previous game. It will help you in the choices you make this game.
You're forgetting about the SK. Even though mafia KP is 1, SK is also 1, so it's balanced like a normal game. CompVig actually puts it over the top for KP which is why it's so important we use the CV as a double lynch.
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On August 21 2010 04:04 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 03:46 SouthRawrea wrote:
Another small point but pardoner can be good if they're in town circle. If somehow mafioso starts a lynch against a townie that the circle knows is confirmed (if town circle has no huge town influence yet) then pardoner can pardon, thus being confirmed as a townie and then be the mouthpiece for town circle. Circumstantially dependent but has potential to be very good. The only problem is the pardoner has to keep their cool. There are no PM's this game. No PM's means any town circle is out in the open anyways. Yes there is a Mason, but he can't make a circle. Oops okay fine. Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 03:42 SouthRawrea wrote:
I would have to disagree about Vengeful Player. As long as the VP keeps their cool, they can make the choice to kill or not to kill. If we somehow end up being split between the VP and another player, we can have both of them die. As well, if we're stuck in a 1 mafia 2 townie situation, VP claims and we lynch them. Thus we get two shots at killing the mafia as opposed to one. (We still win if only 1 villager and 0 maf are left standing) If a mafia decides to somehow counter claim VP in any situation where they claim, we have a good lynch target for once we get multiple suspects. VP is very useful and can act as a normal townie if they choose meaning it's a pro-town role. A pro-town Vengeful Player should never, ever use their kill. No town player should ever use additional KP, other than the CV. The repercussions for being wrong are far too large in this set-up. If you are wrong, you just killed a blue role. Not worth the guess. We decide on lynches and CV hits as a town, and that's that. Not to mention that VP is far less useful then the many other pro-town roles. Good feedback though, keep it coming.
Err.. The 2 vil 1 maf scenario stands and the other scenario still stands if there is a 50/50 shot at getting the mafia, not if the town nonchalantly assumes if there is a 50/50 shot. I'm saying that they should otherwise just pretend to be a normal townie. Sure it's not a power role but it's 100% town favoured.
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EBWOP
I meant powerful role.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 21 2010 04:00 rastaban wrote:
Radfield, I haven't gotten to read your whole post yet, but I did want to let you know the watcher this game is not the same as in most games "at night you can choose to watch a player and receive information in the form of how many people visited the target that night." so it looks like he only gets a number and not any roles, you will see on my list that I have it rated fairly low for this reason. I think it is a fairly useless role for all teams. I am sure there are ways it could be used but off hand knowing if 1 or 5 people visited someone at night isn't very useful.
You're absolutely right, Watcher is quite weak as is. That really sucks.
Pandain's Post
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2010 04:07 Pandain wrote:Hmm... that was a really interesting read Radfield. I'll address my thoughts I suppose. 1. Controlling the Compulsive Vigi and making him do the town's will is a very good plan. This way even if he is mafia, than we can still force him to do what we want. However, I just want you to clarify why it will be good despite what I am about to say. Sure the town might have extra kp, but that all revolves around the fact that we would get the right hit. If we miss, than all it does is hurt the town. That's why I think that if we don't have a sure fire hit or something, we should have the roleblocker block the Comp Vigi on that night. Slight modification that only helps the town. That's where the roleblocker will be valuable, again imo should be taken. 2. Alignment cop I feel can be VERY useful. I disagree with him being a less than optimal townie role. While you are right that he cannot find GF or Serial Killer, there are more scum than there are GF's. Alignment cop, if we find out his sanity(which I think he could probably find out on his own in a couple days, less if we use a plan[Joat+Alignment Cop combo]) in my opinion might be the best role. It seems to me alot of your "essential list" revolves around the fact they can find the GF/Serial killer. Yet what if they choose not to get GF? Even if they do, its only one scum out of many. Alignment cop would be better for general purposes. 3.We don't have to worry about Vengeful player adding kp, as we would've already lynched a mafia by then. 4.Show nested quote +Also, by leaving DayVig, Bad Santa and Vengeful Player(??) for the mafia to take, it makes Bullet Bill much stronger by him not getting confused by pro-town players with guns.
Like this idea. Already outlined my thoughts on VP. I suppose the day vig should be left for the mafia to take. Unsure...elaborate on why we'd rather have mafia than town have it? Just so bullet bill is stronger? I might agree, just want to hear some more on this. 5. Why #5 take copycat. Really would like to hear why this specific number 6. You say the watcher and tracker are on the essential list, but I don't see why those are better than other roles. Sure, they can find GF and we should probably have one of them, but scum have roles to don't they? Bit unsure as to what will happen if tracker tracks mafia with role. Will have to check.
1. "getting the right hit" doesn't really matter if we're killing off someone we would be lynching the next day. A double lynch is almost always good for town and bad for mafia, and that's exactly what this is. The roleblocker idea is a good one, but I don't think good enough to be worth taking a role that otherwise doesn't do much for the town. There are plenty of more helpful town roles.
2. Alignment Cop is a good town role, just not a great one. The scenario you put forward to establish the Cop's sanity involves both our Joat and Cop roleclaiming. Which means even once he figures out his sanity, the mafia can just snipe him. It also burns up the Joat's only dt check. Again, Alignment Cop is good, and should be taken, but is simply not as good as the other 4.
3. Either I'm misunderstanding you here, or you are misunderstanding me. By KP I meant any role that can kill another player, not the general mafia KP(which is always 1 in this game). Maybe I'm not understanding though, help me out here.
4. If the town have no roles which carry guns, then Bullet Bill becomes a sane alignment cop, which is very powerful in this set-up(there is a reason that the AC's sanity is unknown). Every player with a gun is mafia, every player without one is town. If town players start taking Bad Santa and Day Vig, then Bullet Bill becomes far far less useful, because he can't be sure if someone is anti-town or not.
5. I picked 5 randomly. Anything higher is fine too. #2 might even be better. The real key here is that if the CV is the first power role dead, we NEED to know where the Copy Cat is.
6. Watcher is a lot worse than I previously had supposed.
Tracker however is a great role, because is can gather a tremendous amount of information. It's almost as good as a dt, since it will track a mafia or SK to a kill. If it tracks someone to a player that didn't die, then that player is likely a pro-town power role. Notice that the only pro-mafia role that visits someone is the roleblocker, vs 5 or 6 for town.
You do raise a good point though:
@ ACE, if I track a mafia roleblocker, where does he go? To the KP target, or to the roleblocked target? Likewise a SK roleblocker. I'm assuming that they always get tracked to the kill.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On August 21 2010 04:21 SouthRawrea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 04:04 Radfield wrote:On August 21 2010 03:46 SouthRawrea wrote:
Another small point but pardoner can be good if they're in town circle. If somehow mafioso starts a lynch against a townie that the circle knows is confirmed (if town circle has no huge town influence yet) then pardoner can pardon, thus being confirmed as a townie and then be the mouthpiece for town circle. Circumstantially dependent but has potential to be very good. The only problem is the pardoner has to keep their cool. There are no PM's this game. No PM's means any town circle is out in the open anyways. Yes there is a Mason, but he can't make a circle. Oops okay fine. On August 21 2010 03:42 SouthRawrea wrote:
I would have to disagree about Vengeful Player. As long as the VP keeps their cool, they can make the choice to kill or not to kill. If we somehow end up being split between the VP and another player, we can have both of them die. As well, if we're stuck in a 1 mafia 2 townie situation, VP claims and we lynch them. Thus we get two shots at killing the mafia as opposed to one. (We still win if only 1 villager and 0 maf are left standing) If a mafia decides to somehow counter claim VP in any situation where they claim, we have a good lynch target for once we get multiple suspects. VP is very useful and can act as a normal townie if they choose meaning it's a pro-town role. A pro-town Vengeful Player should never, ever use their kill. No town player should ever use additional KP, other than the CV. The repercussions for being wrong are far too large in this set-up. If you are wrong, you just killed a blue role. Not worth the guess. We decide on lynches and CV hits as a town, and that's that. Not to mention that VP is far less useful then the many other pro-town roles. Good feedback though, keep it coming. Err.. The 2 vil 1 maf scenario stands and the other scenario still stands if there is a 50/50 shot at getting the mafia, not if the town nonchalantly assumes if there is a 50/50 shot. I'm saying that they should otherwise just pretend to be a normal townie. Sure it's not a power role but it's 100% town favoured.
I agree that in that scenario the VP would be nice to have. However, that is an unlikely scenario. In pretty much every other scenario, it hurts the town to throw around KP. Keep in mind that I'm particularly talking about THIS setup. In a normal game, it would be a good town role, because it is basically just a vigilante. However, even a vigilante in this setup is a bad town role, because the consequences of a miss are much greater. In a normal game, if town misses with some KP, it's very likely they'll hit a townie, not a blue. In this setup, it's almost assured that a miss will take out a blue role.
I shouldn't have said never, but I was trying to get the point across about town KP.
Anyways, that point aside, I'd like to hear your thoughts on some of the other issues I raised.
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EPT
