TL Mafia XXVIII
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BloodyC0bbler
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On July 17 2010 03:33 Radfield wrote: are there PM's in this game? Didn't see anything in the OP about it. there is a vote a few pages ago for if we have them or not. | ||
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On July 17 2010 06:34 Bill Murray wrote: if i can get 1 more signup i would send roles out by 9 tonight Ill see if I can rope in 1 more then | ||
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On July 17 2010 07:44 citi.zen wrote: How is it that these things always start on weekends? because you touch yourself at night. | ||
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On July 17 2010 08:12 Bill Murray wrote: i made a word document with all the roles i randomized the player list and i put the player list with the role list so it's 100% random, and the list is done, but i may not be able to get PMs out for it to start at 9. we'll see. im guessing no clues? | ||
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On July 17 2010 10:30 Ace wrote: You guys are asking a lot for a game being modded by a lunatic lol. 1st post might just start with a modkill. Or the game just ends as he decided to divide the game by zero | ||
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On July 17 2010 07:57 Bill Murray wrote: nice ill send these out right now, then i'm going to bed the 48 hour day cycle starts at 9pm EST, 10 KST, and will last for 48 hours PMing is allowed, and if you have any questions, feel free to direct them to me | ||
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On July 17 2010 11:18 Ace wrote: lol wait....so the game was supposed to start at 9PM ET tonight? and BM went to bed? Apparently yes. Seems pretty much right up his alley. I'm guessing no day post lol | ||
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Some decent idea's have been laid out and we can consider them viable. We have a few basics to remember in a setup like this. Trust no one. For all of the newer players. Stay out of PM land. If by god you go there, please only do so after the person your talking to has been confirmed. The chances for a minor slip up is enough to get you sniped if your blue, or give out information that you may have if you have it. Secondly, we should set up potential lists of people to watch out for until they can be confirmed. I would start with BloodyC0bbler Foolishness DTA YoungMirii Citizen I believe us 5 should be under the most scrutiny at the beginning of this game. Next we need medics to protect intelligently. Protect people you think will get hit. Analyze what people are saying then think if its something that would warrant mafia hitting them. IF so, put them on a list. Do this a few times and you have yourself a medic list to protect off of. Next, day 1 lynch we have a few options a) vote for the most inactive player b) Vote for someone to RNG a player then vote on them c) Vote for someone whos scummy (bad idea) Now, with that all said and done, Lets get this party started. | ||
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On July 18 2010 05:22 DarthThienAn wrote: I got this feeeeling. Somebody's watching me! Pretty safe bet, you are kinda sketchy looking with your darthvader like lightning | ||
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Placeholder vote till we have our inactive person yarrr | ||
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On July 18 2010 06:08 tree.hugger wrote: So much spam in the first couple pages. Get a hold of yourselves people, you're not witty. Also, our inactive lynches always end up being townies, but every time when we look back at the game, there's always a mafia member or two who was inactive at the beginning, or posted and spammed just enough to clear the inactivity bar. I propose we make a list of FIVE players who are inactive, and then RNG them to determine a lynch candidate. That way we either force mafia into the open, or catch that one newbie mafia who doesn't know how to post properly. At the very least that would make the town's move a little harder to gauge. You then still have to decide who RNG's the name off said list, but not a bad idea. Also gives a better chance at hitting a red. | ||
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You all who voted for hyperbola have a huuuuuuge amount of explaining to do, also heres the list for the rest to see yet again. Misder, Divinek, Pandain, Zeks, SiNiquity Misder was basically counter voting, and siniquity I believe was "placehold" voting, the rest of you explain why you voted now, or DT's should check your first. for fishy/terrible play. On July 18 2010 09:48 youngminii wrote: What, why am I included in a scum list Anyways, I've been spamming Starcraft 2 all night and I'm dead tired but since we haven't really moved out of RVS it looks like I haven't missed out on much. I have a question for BM. What happens if everyone votes to abstain? If the answer is a no lynch, then I suggest everyone change their votes to abstain for the first day. A no lynch (in my experience) on the first day is generally beneficial to town in a standard-ish setup. We'll also get all the modkills out of the way which will narrow down the list of potential scum. I especially do not want to accidentally go and lynch a blue role, that'd be horrible. In fact, I have another question (I may have just missed this in the OP), are roles flipped upon death? I'd assume so but I just want to make sure. Your not on a list of scum, your on a list of people to watch out for. After your performance last game I have you as a more top tier level player, and thus more scrutiny should be on you. Your total misconception of what I was trying to get across is something I would not expect from you, expecially based on your solid play last game. On July 18 2010 15:34 ~OpZ~ wrote: Actually....I'm done for this....Let me read a little more and we'll see who I want to die.... Also, I'm tired of these idiotic plans. We can pm. Dt, check someone PM them, pass turn, check someone PM them and the other person, pass turn. Quit playing like idiots and realize the benefits of having PMs....Nubby ass mafioso. And go back and look at games with PM's day one, no body does anything that day... The best thing I could say is everyone Roleclaim to me, and lynch me today...Or wait til tomorrow and do it. I'd inform of match ups, over counts, and die out as proof. How does that sound? I can send the PM out, and inform before death of everyone who doesn't respond, over counts of roles, ect. ect. I could be checked night one if that would be a problem, (wouldn't recommend organized multi checking though) and lynched day 2. Even if I was god father, god father would be out and too many blues to snipe with a list of roles and over claims. *yawn* But I don't really wanna die too bad, or abuse how easy this game could be. .... You are one of most retarded players I have seen. No singular check is confirmed (blue or green) until the GF is dead. THE dt should almost never claim, unless he can prove the validity of the person he checked. Chances are if he finds a green he can communicate to them (never roleclaim), but blues should be treated almost as if they were red until the GF dies. No one should stupidly claim to anyone untop of that as pm circles are too easily infiltrated and names + roles revealed. PM's are extremely advantage if used correctly, but do not randomly start claiming to people until you have proven them legit town. Seriously people, wtf. | ||
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##unvote ##vote pandain You get the vote as the third - fourth voter of most bandwagons turns out to be red. Convince me your legit, or stop being retarded and ill move my vote. | ||
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BM and I are talking about proleague + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 16:05 Bill Murray wrote: gg 1-1 skt! stop spoiling proleague in a mafia game. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:13 ~OpZ~ wrote: ##Vote BC -_- I have never liked your writing style from any game. From my perspective it makes perfect sense BC. But I guess it would only make sense to me....Lolz Dude, your asking people to blind trust a rolecheck. Until the GF dies, you cannot do so. A DT can only safely claim on such few circumstances, or take an insane leap of faith and hope it pays off. You then ask dts to check you in essence for you to be that person they claim to. Its most likely just a stupid move on your part, but comes off as bad play. That sort of style isn't something I'd trust if I were a DT nor should the DT's who are playing. Liking or Disliking my style has nothing to do with you telling people to do something incredibly dumb. I can honestly see where your coming from with what you were saying, but wasn't a good plan. The way in to check people not so bad, claiming outright, bad. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:17 Pandain wrote: Aww . I had unvoted you too. You see, I had originally voted you but wasn't completely sure. What Sinquity said about Hyperola I found persuasive. His first post is accusing Sinquity of being Mafia based on the sole fact his post was long. Now, what more of a baseless accusation can there be? Now I'm new here, but I found that deeply disturbing when it had been pointed out. Now, after 4 of us have voted against him, what does he do? Here he is, still trying to accuse poor Sinquity of being a mafia based on his original "evidence" of "His post was too long." I just find his actions all in all highly questionable, and at the very least want such a baseless accusing person out of the game. Thing is, he did call someone out, which explains why that person voted him, it also could explain another person voting for him. BUT 5 people total voting for someone based on day 1 activity on a weekend with little to no real discussion going on makes a bandwagon insanely bad idea. IF he flips town, those original bandwagoners are going to get owned by town for the bad play, or ignored all game for being stupid and potentially lose us said game. I appreciate where you are coming from, and well, its not bad in principle and if this had been posted day 2 or after I would fully endorse the action, but bandwagons day 1 are insanely anti town, especially when based on such a lack of information to discuss. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:35 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Pandain my statement was really not intended to support lynching Hyperbola specifically i think BC and citizen have made a salient observation of youngminii's posting behavior, and it is currently the most interesting development to me. i await his inevitable response before i cast any judgments though, since i haven't played in a game with youngminii and they have. Just read over DTA's game to get an idea where we are coming from. He pretty well single handedly won the game for town. Also for a new comer, really good play. That is generally where the train of though (from me anyway) is coming from. | ||
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On July 18 2010 16:27 Pandain wrote: Hmm good point, and I see where you are coming from. Point of information though, I believe I was only the 3rd person who voted for hyperbola. In fact, I had missed the original post calling out Hyperola and only when the other guy quoted it did I see it, find it reasonable, and decide to change my vote. However, I still find his statements to be at the very least questionable, and to quote a more expirenced than I mafia member: If you could provide sufficient persuasion arguing in favor of being ultra cautious and countering his statement, I would consider changing my mind to abstaining. I don't view hyperbola's play to be stupid actually. Not in comparison to a few other players I can think of thus far this game Divinek, zeks, and opz come to mind. Re read their posts to see why. | ||
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Ugh, Foolishness dead, so not good. Along with the hit d3 apparently took, seems like we have to step it up a notch. First off, thank you med who prot’d d3, or thank you BM RNG for giving him vet. Regardless, thank god. Day one appeared to be a veteran player snipe night. This puts us in a rather bad spot if the trend stays. In regards to today, I think we should focus on a few things. One being the vote lists from yesterday. I shall quote Tree hugger for convinience On July 20 2010 03:06 tree.hugger wrote: There is are six mafia in this game. There is probably one mafia in each of these lists, but I'd also lean on citi and young being mafia candidates. And probably two in this one: Mafia vote counts are usually spread across the likely candidates, as the mafia don't know who our blue's are as much as we know who they are. So there's not a lot to be gained by them in focusing on one target, at least not yet. Therefore, there's probably some mafia who voted early, (I'd lean towards those being more experienced players, but possibly not.) some mafia who voted late, and some mafia who changed their votes. I tend to suspect people who voted against each other, as personal conflict give the mafia a great excuse to make a silly vote that won't ever be held to them. I think we've seen faux conflict be manufactured that way as well. We'll see what more the hits tonight give us, but keep this day 1 voting template in mind. Bolding the names of people who are dead/took a hit. Based on just who was hit/died, burden would be on myself, DTA and to a degree SiNiquity. Looks bad for the three of us, but we can move past that for the time being. Keep in mind (much like tree hugger has mentioned) that there are 6 red, who have the ability day 1 to potentially fan the fire of a potential bandwagon, create one then disappear from it, or discretely slide into one. Means going back over posts to see who said/did what to encourage the bandwagoning. Of the major vote lists Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)[/quote] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle) abstain (LaXerCannon, tricode, SouthRawrea, Chaoser, protactinium, zeks) Stand out the most to me. The most amount of users are located on those three lists (in terms of voting for a single person/abstaining). Now, abstainers to a degree at this point could have placeholder votes or the like so that could be that. I would keep an eye on the names there and see if any overlap later on, or similarly vague judgement calls on why they voted however way they did. Now, lets look at the other two, the primary ones that got “bandwagoned” Hyperbola (Divinek, Pandain, SiNiquity, bumatlarge, BB, Subversion)[/quote] YoungMinii (XeliN, Amber[LighT, Roffles, Infizzleundibulumizzle) Of hyperbola’s end voters, divinek, pandain, and siniquity kept their votes on as they dropped them on him. BB, Bumatlarge and subversion were all late to the party. Misder and Zeks both jumped off that wagon. Youngminii’s bandwagon comes much later. And was only made closeish of a vote because of misder and zeks jumping off hyperbola. To me, this suggests that zeks + misder are most likely town. Both realized how quickly the bandwagon was forming on someone based on little and left trying to stop a potential town death. The vote train on Youngminii makes very little sense to me for day 1 as (based on last games performance) the expectation of him is quite high and consistent slip ups or mistakes will get noticed and get him killed. This makes me think that this was fueled by mafia, or people not paying attention to the thread. I would keep an eye on the 5 names on this vote list. TLDR version of that all is, people should keep an eye primarily on youngminii’s list as it seems more artificially created. Mafia benefits more from his death if he flips town than if hyperbola would. Zeks and Misder I am inclined to think are town based on their actions (although late), and people overall should watch the names on the three lists I mentioned (hyperbola, youngminii, and abstain list) to watch for common patterns among voters. Next step. We need to figure out a way to use last nights miss shoot to our advantage. DT’s over the course of the next 2-4 days should try to narrow down potential reds by looking over the thread and figuring out who would best benefit from the this on foolishness/d3. If you opt for another way to check, use the vote lists provided above as they will give you a good idea of who to track/follow on your checks. Build a spreadsheet, narrow down your checked/unchecked names and fill in roles when people die. Play the stats game. However, do not rush in to check d3. If you want to do this, RNG a day within the next 1-4 nights and check then. Anything else encourages the suicide bomber to rush in and off multiple blues. Play it smart. Medics, I have very little experience in your position so I have little idea of how to properly utilize your role. My only advise is this. Mafia are unable to hit their own people. If you did successfully block a hit, whoever you prot’d is confirmed town. Utilize this. Note: if there is an extra hit in a night, or a vig claims, don’t consider person cleared till who fired what shot is confirmed as vig shots could hit a mafia member (and medic blocks it). All mafia hits blocked however confirm town aligned players. Vet’s. You have two real options. Make yourself a target for hits, or sit back and hope to soak a hit. Mass claiming in this format, or if nothing else, this early does not benefit the town. Until the suicide bomber is dead, town cannot safely roleclaim as the risk of multiple blues dying is too high (dts confirming said head of circle, med proting, or the like). Town has a huge advantage in this style with meds and dt’s able to confirm people. Factor in that once vets can be proved later on in the game, they are excellent voices for dts, meds, or the like. For now, we have to go over the vote lists, find out someone who seems to have a) fueled the bandwagons day 1 b) would benefit the most from foolishness / d3 being hit We can easily win this if we think intelligently. I will look more heavily over the vote lists / posts to get an idea of who to vote for after my shift this afternoon (get home after 7pm pst) and will start looking then. | ||
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On July 21 2010 00:32 zeks wrote: you're right i guess we don't know for sure. but I think its highly unlikely for mafia to bank on the fact that both medics dont know what the other one did to claim a hit just on the fact that its so risky. not saying d3 is clear 100% but i just think scum would be kinda dumb to pull something like that so early If a medic prot'd him, he is 100% confirmed. If he is a vet (rolecheck at some random point would show this) he is 99% confirmed as the chances the mafia gf would RC day 2 is extremely slim. Do not on mass roleclaim him though as until the bomber or gf dies, as either or can destroy a town circle extremely quickly. It does however give a starting point for a circle to form. | ||
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On July 20 2010 21:17 citi.zen wrote: The DTs had two checks last night. Unless they both hit red, we already have the start of a circle, maybe two. I would trust these checks before te vet claim at this point, since the dts picked them more "randomly". That said, I doubt the mafia would fake claim this early. It gives them very little for a pretty big risk: if another vet is hit/lynched, the GF is toast. It would also mean they purposely wasted a kp. So we should be in good shape. Assume the claim was genuine but don't take stupid risks, we don't need them. The big thing is we didn't lose any blues, and the mafia only killed one person. Just as a minor edit to this, it is the start of a few circles (each dt checks different people most likely, leads to two seperate circles, add in the medic's prot from last night you have a third) | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:39 BrownBear wrote: Yeah, that's how a normal setup works. What I'm saying though, is because we know the exact number of vets in this game, we can use that to our advantage and use the vets as confirmed townies, to greater effect. I believe coordination > random hit soaking, but I guess we have to agree to disagree. Vets are better late game for circle use to fake leak info they are a dt, or the like. Vets early game to use as the center of a circle is a terrible idea. Think of it this way. TOWN has to confirm those vets. This requires wasting vig/hatter hits on them, dt checking, hoping a med prots them from a hit. The issue however is to confirm said vet requires blues confirming him. This leaves an opening for a bomber to get lucky as hell and potentially in a night at worst case kill two dts, 1-2 meds, a hatter/vig. Not saying that many blues would normally stack ontop of the vet, but its reasonable to expect that 1 blue would be on said vet rather frequently making a bomber hit worth it as they lose one red to off 2-3 or 4 blues, or 2 blues, head of a town circle and still have remaining KP to snipe at anyone they know of in said circle. Far to risky early game. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:44 Protactinium wrote: Probably not today, unless we can find two clearly delineated targets. Ah, scrolling backward. With the whole Vet idea, let's not forget this: And don't forget he made the winning (or losing...) vote. Good catch, subversion not only makes a weird line Seems at the moment, mafia aren't making too many mistakes. but also the bit about the hyperbola vote. Consider he is implying the chances of one - two reds in there, and cast the deciding vote to get hyper lynched. Add in then his "praise" of the mafia, seems he's either really good at slipups or really good at appearing scummy as town. | ||
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The youngminii vote list is odd, after two defense posts and solid ones for day 1 at that, he still garnered people vote for him Infundi started the vote train with On July 18 2010 20:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I'm going out for the rest of the day and i dunno if i'll be back in time for the deadline. I'm gonna put my vote on youngminii, just in case anything happens in that direction. Otherwise i hope you guys are smart enough not to screw things up while i'm gone :p #vote youngminii It’s a “placeholder” vote. He then argues with young and refuses to vote swap. Xelin posts a reason to vote for young very quickly after, On July 18 2010 23:49 XeliN wrote: Actually scrap that, I've just gone over your posts individually Youngminii and your coming across so scummy to me. You argue everyone to abstain on the first day, or vote for someone that is going to be killed anyway. That directly helps mafia, and further reduces any information that we could have going into Day 2, you've also tried to directly influence what any blues in the game do on the first day and instead of addressing the points infundulum makes against you, you flip reverse it and accuse him of being Red. Remove vote Vote youngminii He is gut shotting, not a very solid way to do it day 1. On July 19 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote: ###vote youngminii if I have to trust someone I trust xelin. I'm going to follow his decisions till the end of the day at least. Sorry got to the game early so I read some posts :D This post intrigues me, a lot. HE is blind trusting someone to follow for voting, which makes the third vote of a bandwagon that formed in the last 17 hours of the day, all 3 voting with in a page of eachother. Super odd to be formed a) so late and b) with next to no real debate. On July 19 2010 02:07 Roffles wrote: OpZ just has that sort of playstyle. Comes in, makes a couple accusations, then starts some shit. At least it demonstrates he's here. Gonna unabstain now that I've read the thread. ##Unvote: Abstain ##Vote: youngminii Not voting simply lets scum get off a free shot. Don't see the real reasoning behind not voting. Shit, I'd rather RNG someone than let em off the hook for Day 1. Anyways, I'd refrain from voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Chances are they'll be modkilled within the next couple of days anyways. Why waste a lynch on someone who's gonna die later on? Odd vote choice as he has read the thread, comments little for his vote, but goes onto say how he would prefer to have the days lynch go, seems fair enough of a reason to avoid a no lynch. On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote: The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs. Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched. That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list. SO yea ##Unvote ##Vote: Youngminii Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy. Of all the votes for young, this one strikes me as the most reasonable, as it is voting based on things he has said, and things he disagrees with and is voting for it. Now, that that is done, lets go see what day 2 looks like for these 5. On July 20 2010 22:15 Amber[LighT] wrote: Why is it that all of a sudden d3 claims he was protected and BrownBear becomes the official 'active' townie with all of this great insight. Up until about 12 hours ago (last time I checked the thread) he was nowhere to be found, and now that 1 person gave him something to run with, he's invaded about 2/3's of the last 2 pages with nonsense analysis about d3. What's even worse is that he wants our "other" veteran to roleclaim. ATTN OTHER VETERAN: DO NOT ROLECLAIM!!!! The goal of the veteran, as stated numerous times, is to be the meatshield. His vote is only worth 1, regardless of how long he is left in the game. His job is to soak damage up from night kills. By outing our veterans, we are pretty much giving the mafia enough information to say "don't hit these players." I'm against that plan completely, and I'm against BrownBear. Hopefully the DT's are working their magic from last night and getting in contact with the players they checked. The DT role is pretty black/white and very strong in this game, so we need to keep those guys alive. The DT's should form their own circles and use the players they checked as voice-boxes. The players who have been checked should, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, reveal to any other player who the DT is unless they are verified. The only way the DT circles should combine is if AND ONLY IF by chance a DT checks another DT. Please be smart about this guys. I'm sticking with the opinion of the previous night to lynch the most useless player: ##Vote: BrownBear I'll consider changing my vote if some of the more 'influential players' have a better suggestion. This vote is a completely different style, levels out with what he said the day before of not having time, here he obviously did as it’s a moderately informed vote. HOWEVER he later does this On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote: Unvote BrownBear ##Vote: Subversion Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Here shows that rather than being certain of his choices, he going bandwagon to bandwagon. Subversion has had far to many people jump on him for being a bad player when the kid is new. And now another player, who should know better based on experience, is jumping at him. Seriously fishy imo. Very little activity overall and hoping onto bandwagons is all hes really doing. On July 21 2010 20:25 XeliN wrote: I'm personally not convinced about Brownbear whatsoever, his suggestions and arguments may be poor but he has not acted in a way I would expect a mafia too, his reaction to peoples accusations is far more fitting with how townies respond (although this is WiFOM, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Brown would not attempt to defend himself in a manner he hoped to portray as a green reaction if he were mafia) Out of the two candidates my inclination is for either Darth or Chaoser, the arguments against Subversion have seemed quite astute but quite frankly the actions of Darth and Chaoser so far concern me more, Darth from my past experience is extremely logical, helpful and influential. He has been none of these things this game and in the past I have only seen him in a town role. This shift in character//style would be the main reason I suspect Darth. Chaoser has been exceptionally inconsistent so far, Pandain has outlined most of my reasoning quite well on page 39, but to surmise his arguing against "no-lynching" in order to criticise a player then abstaining, using the argument "these two players are more suspicious//more evidence against them than me". This line of argument is almost laughable and reminds me of the playground type reaction "Hey don't pick on me... look at that kid... he can't even play football and he's ugly as hell". ##Vote DarthThienAn Out of Chaoser and Darth I would consider the latter more dangerous in a mafia role so I'll place it there. Going into description of who he thinks should be lynched based off two major candiates. Although DTA is a more recent bandwagon (well revival of one) On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote: I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said ##Vote:Subversion This vote worries me. He starts by saying “I was going to vote for x” then immediately swaps his opinion to someone who has made a few minor slip ups (possible newb?) but votes out of fear of him saying something he shouldn’t. Odd reason to kill someone now, sounds like a pm land reason, although I have no way to prove that. To my knowledge, Infundi has just voted for double lynch today, and Roffles still hasn’t voted. Now looking at this, I see a few really oddly done votes, and it continues today. Amber seems to vote for whichever wagon at the time is attracting the most people, hopping onto Youngminii near its beginning, then proceeding to jump on BB when it was in its prime, now hes hopped over to subversion. This is insanely odd to me. Next we have jayme, doing very similar things, hopping onto popular wagon without really contributing much to the game other than hopping onto the wagon with a simple reason of why he joined it. His reason day 1 was sound, his reason right now not so much. I would also say as a minor link that potentially means nothing at this point, but both amber and jayme have voted together twice now (provided this vote stays final). NOW, lets talk about the last days playing. WHAT THE HELL GUYS. I am gone for a day, and seriously return to you all attacking well everyone Youngminii vs chaoser pandain vs chaoser Chaoser vs young/pandain everyone and their puppy vs subversion Shit jumping randomly out to attack dta people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity. Lakrismamma attempting to start a fight with roffles based on inactivity (pot calling the kettle black?) The amount of just literally piles of crap to weed through is agonizingly annoying to read. ALL of responsible for this all should take a step bad and really see what you are doing. Because of all this nonsense there is really next to no real candidate for a lynch, instead its a bunch of minor bandwagons people can fan/hide in. If the group of you mainly responsible for this is town, shame on you guys, you should know better. Start reading what people are saying, not just arguing a gut shot. As its too damn late to try and coordinate on who to vote on, I AM choosing amber for having two days worth of sketchy voting habits + bandwagon hopping. ##vote amber[light] | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:04 BrownBear wrote: Sigh. What happens in the case that GF decided not to appear as vet? Not a problem. Also, if you actually happened to read carefully, you would notice that i said SB doesn't necessarily break the plan - it just throws a wrench in it. It just requires more careful planning + execution. Your plan requires way to much luck. Until you confirm what the GF decided to appear as, its not safe. If someone is inactive and gf appeared as vet, its not safe, if suicide bomber hits said vet as town moves to confirm the, ton of blues die. It is something that is more helpful later on, this early and especially with all the random finger pointing and general what the hellness of this days voting, you can see why your plan can't work. A good idea can only work in an ideal situation, but if its an ideal situation and no one works together then it still doesn't work. There is no town unity at the moment, so any idea like you proposed won't work even if it was the perfect situation for it. If the bomber/gf dies, your idea is plausible to use. Till then its not. | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:03 Pandain wrote: Right now I believe the two viable decisions are either Chaoser or Darth. They are the two most likely canidates for actually being mafia. BB and Subversion are just new and people are jumping on them for really miniscule posts. The only one thing that could lead to one of them being mafia is Subversions deciding vote in favor of Hyperbola, however that is still unlikely because it is just as likely that 1)The Mafia didn't know of BM's miscount 2)He just voted at an unlucky time. So all those who are picking either BB or Subversion (especially BB) I urge you to change your vote and vote for either Darth of Chaoser. I would suggest Chaoser, just because I find him more likely to be mafia than DTA. To me, it still seems that Chaoser is just trying to get people lynched and DTA could be plannign something. Of course we should keep an eye on DTA, but let's not just lynch him and ruin anything he might be doing. I would urge you to vote Chaoser, but at the very least I humbly request all those not voting either DTA/Chaoser to unvote and pick one of them. Hi Pandain, remember this post, oh a page ago, and now you've flipped to On July 22 2010 06:28 Pandain wrote: Actually, for a long time I have been wondering whether Chaoser is innocent or not. For most of the time I've decided to keep my vote just because if I unvoted, I felt like everyone else would too(Since I have both led and started the accusatoin.) Therefore, I'm actually really suspecting Subversion. I mean, even if it was a mistake the vote for Hyperbola is suspect. Especially since after a few PM's my arguments for chaoser have diminished and the arguments for Subversion have grown. With that. ##Unvote ##Vote Subversion. Just saying, little sketchy of a switch based on your post above. IF anything you would have swapped to dta. Just saying. | ||
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On July 22 2010 06:34 Pandain wrote: Finally, I have been exchanging PM's from mroe expierenced players and they have laid out their arguments fantastically. I am inclined to believe them. You, of all people, should know how hard Mafia is, and I can't just stick to one person because I voted them first. If people offer sufficient evidence, I change my mind. I always have. Oh dude, I know how hard the game can be. The issue isn't that you changed your vote, it was based on what you said a page previously that your vote went to someone who wasn't on your list of two. In essence it appears as though you are hopping off a bandwagon now that its reached its height. Sometimes you just need to explain yourself fully when you do such a jump to avoid it being called out. | ||
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I hope you all learned your lesson. Keep in mind tommorrow, and tonight as everyone realizes how dumb today was, they will go back and re read all the people pushing for these stupid bandwagons. I would center look around players like youngminii, pandain, and pyrr. Those three pushed for the main people who ended up on the lynching block the most. Of those three, youngminii is the one who has the most explaining to do. On July 21 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote: FoS tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darththienan, chaoser He then managed to clutter up god knows how much of the thread going after chaoser, then once day lynch ends, he gets into another argument with another player. HE needs to learn to simmer down and think things through logically and post it in a not confrontational manner all the time, or take a time out. Pandain similar reasons, alot of finger pointing, lots of arguing leading to derailing the thread into the spiral of what the day ran into. Pyrr for pushing for DTA's lynch, which then offed a townie. | ||
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On July 22 2010 14:21 Divinek wrote: you know i feel bad for the people like bc that are gonna have to sift through all this shit tomorrow. I hope bc starts posting more i dont like how quiet he is being It honestly feels like pushing a damn rock up a mountain when i come back and see a thread like this after work, its insanely long and filled with so much just ugh. | ||
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On July 22 2010 16:27 Subversion wrote: when is night?? right now | ||
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I took a hit last night. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:27 Pandain wrote: Holy crud. This is the info I was talking about. Wait a second... then how did two people die. and a third got hit? Was there a vigilante? That would be my guess. No idea which one hit me, but regardless, I was. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:35 youngminii wrote: The real question is why would vigilante hit any of these three? It makes no sense. There was no spotlight on any of them and they didn't really shine a spotlight at anyone (well BC said some things a while back). The only reason I could think I would be hit. A) Mafia think I am a threat based on posts I have made previous which were largely ignored. Possibly trying to suppress information, and prevent me from stepping up when time opens up in my schedule and attempting to organize the town. B) Vigilante thought I was red and fired a shot. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:41 Pandain wrote: Oh didn't realize we had two vigis. Frick I thought we finally had something to go on -.- We know we have two kp roles, one is a vig, the other could be hatter or vig. | ||
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except i took a shot, and two bodies turned up? we know by that one player is a vig. | ||
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I was medic protected last night. I am sincerely hoping it wasn't roffles but as of the moment I have no clue who saved me. I think everyone has to take a step back and stop putting all their faith into BC's claim. In the game I played previously (Godfather mafia) I was DT and I claimed because I had found the Godfather. However, people were still wary of my claim and if I was in fact, scum false claiming then scum would have won the game 100%. You have to take in the whole picture and think about the possibility that BC is false claiming. He could just be claiming as it'll give him instant 'credibility'. He could be claiming to derail the flame war that happened between me, infundiblusdcxum and chaoser (which my paranoid little self is tending to learn towards). He could be claiming to just create confusion within the town. He could be claiming because mafia have this awesome scheme planned for the game ahead of us. Or his claim can be real. Just don't forget the possibility of his claim being fake. Don't rush to form any PM trust circles with him. There's quite a chance he's Godfather and that he chose Vet from the start if he's going to make such a bold false claim.[/QUOTE] I am actually happy you posted this. The more people discuss this properly the better position we are in. The flame wars I was referring to was more the combination of everything that happened day 2, combined with what was happening over the night period. The list of people who are quickly jumping the gun and finger pointing without taking the time to really analyze people has led to far too much chaos at the moment and we have to take things slower. Every game has its heated debates, but this has gotten to the point of just ugh. | ||
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On July 23 2010 14:56 youngminii wrote: I think everyone has to take a step back and stop putting all their faith into BC's claim. In the game I played previously (Godfather mafia) I was DT and I claimed because I had found the Godfather. However, people were still wary of my claim and if I was in fact, scum false claiming then scum would have won the game 100%. You have to take in the whole picture and think about the possibility that BC is false claiming. He could just be claiming as it'll give him instant 'credibility'. He could be claiming to derail the flame war that happened between me, infundiblusdcxum and chaoser (which my paranoid little self is tending to learn towards). He could be claiming to just create confusion within the town. He could be claiming because mafia have this awesome scheme planned for the game ahead of us. Or his claim can be real. Just don't forget the possibility of his claim being fake. Don't rush to form any PM trust circles with him. There's quite a chance he's Godfather and that he chose Vet from the start if he's going to make such a bold false claim. is the large block of text i was attempting to quote. | ||
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On July 23 2010 15:51 d3_crescentia wrote: We can't afford to check these people until the bomber is dead, at least by DT - because the Mafia would know we'd be checking them and then just get a two-fer. And by stepping forward it becomes difficult for the Medic to protect-confirm as the Mafia wouldn't want to target them anymore. It's possible to confirm them by lynching the vigi (depending on who he shot at and a few other factors). Then there won't be any mafia incentive to claim the vigi role. It's not the most optimal plan, so I'd really appreciate some input for a better alternative. As a general note as something I recommended yesterday. If a dt uses a rng to check someone where the rng in this case could be used twice, once for player once for day to use it. A dt could safely check you for surviving a hit day 2, and me day 3. IT gives the dt options to safely check without the fear of the bomber. The remaining medic should only claim to someone he protected once he knows for sure it was a mafia hit he blocked and not a vig one. | ||
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On July 23 2010 16:29 d3_crescentia wrote: wait what that post doesn't even make sense you aimed at BC but you don't want him to die? why the hell would you do that Ask fishball, hes done it to me once in the past. | ||
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On July 23 2010 17:59 youngminii wrote: Wait so you hit him for the sake of your own personal desire to one day kill BC? If this is true I'd so totally ban you right now if this were my game. read aces mafia world. Fishball did it to me that game knowing full well nothign was gained in killing me but personal satisfaction. You may not like the reason but tricode has openly said he'd kill me from the getgo for many many games lol. | ||
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On July 23 2010 19:46 ~OpZ~ wrote: You could have been hit by mafia....Or vig... Unconfirmed. Suicide bomb is impossible, a red would have died. Now...If the vig would like to step forward given that he is now a regular townie and say who he hit.... Your a bit behind now, a vig did step forward.... | ||
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On July 24 2010 05:01 chaoser wrote: Sorry, I don't understand, what does "hit majority" mean? i think he means that if player x gets 13 votes the day ends as soon as he sees it and player x is lynched. (as in majority is like 51% of the voters) | ||
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On July 24 2010 05:07 chaoser wrote: oh oh, got it, thanks BC np | ||
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To begin with (ignore the fact its day 3 for the moment). Hosts will RNG roles and typically tweak the player list slightly. (making sure a group of first time players isn’t red vs a group of experienced players for instance). Some hosts will openly admit to doing this, some hosts will deny it. The truth of the matter is, every host does it. Be it by RNGing a role again, to physically swapping someones roles. (chuiu is exempt from this generalization as I know he didn’t). Now, everyone would tweak things the same way, but I will do a briefly outline of how I would do it if I were a host. Well known experienced players. (see names like ver, qatol, ace, caller, L, bloodyc0bbler, incognito, flamewheel, foolishness, etc…) Basically players who have a lot of experience. Not as well known experienced players (see names such as infundibulum, amber[light], opz, bumatlarge, chaoser, tree.hugger, d3, zeks) Rising stars (see names such as youngminii, DTA, Korynee, etc..) Completely new players (everyone else) Now, at this point, in the case of very few well known experienced players, they typically will be given town roles (note, usually townie, or non major blue) as they can help create order, and teach new players, or help guide the flow of things. In the case of many, usually a small group is placed in red as to compete against those who are town. In the case of a small group however, the mafia breakup is that of usually rising stars, or people who are experienced but can easily defend themselves in a pinch but rarely recognized to the general public. New players will be split among both groups as they need experience in every role still. Now, as a player, as well as a host, part of my playing style always includes looking at how someone may have balanced the game. note everyone does it differently so the way I would do things is not the same as any other host . It does however give me a starting ground on how to start scum hunting. In a game of this format, and even more specifically this game. I see of well known names most people would recognize as Myself, Citizen, and foolishness. We have all played in a fair amount of games and most new players at this point will most likely hear of our names quickly, read it in the thread, etc… We will usually be instantly distrustful of each other and be a balancing issue if we are town/red as we at our core will take longer to trust someone who is forced into a form of spotlight regardless of wanting to be there. Note: Pyrr isn’t included in this list as he may not be as well known after a large large break from mafia. We then have a large group of experienced players who aren’t as well known, but have played in many many games. They make up the core of the players this game. We have a few rising stars, and a smaller group of new players. To begin with scum hunting I would look at the list of the big 3 and realize that either 1 or none of us are red. The possibility of there being one however is what keeps us wary of eachother all game. Of the rising stars, I would say most likely with such a low count of them this game, also 1. As they would be expected to compete for top spot this game. Of the newer players, most likely 1-2. As their role doesn’t matter as much as they have to learn from square one regardless. Rest of the roles would be made up of people from the experienced group. Now, from there you have a general idea of lists breakups. List of 3 (or 4 if you count pyrr) names where 0-1 is red Foolishness, bloodyc0bbler, citizen (pyrr) A list of 2 where most likely 0-1 is red. Where 1 is more likely. DTA, Youngminii A list of 6 where 1-2 will most likely be red Siniquity, Southrawrea, Pandain, subversion, misder, protactinium Then everyone else to make up the last 2-4 red. From this you have a generalized standpoint of where to start looking. And with those lists in mind you look at posting histories, styles, voting patterns and the like to best narrow down the red on that respective list. Once a # of reds has been found off a list of grouped players, you can generally ignore it briefly. (note some hosts may not do it as I have laid out, but this is merely a starting format to work from). People will make slipups, imply or reveal they are working with so and so and one flips red then the other does, etc… It however gives everyone a generalized place to start and begin to try and narrow reds down as it puts the chances of nailing one earlier on higher than others. With all this in mind, I will be going back over the thread and analyzing people. Expect another large post in the next few hours. | ||
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On July 24 2010 09:06 Pandain wrote: On July 24 2010 08:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: + Show Spoiler + I am glad to see that today has been a lot more reasonable than the previous two days. I believe that the whole topic of myself/tricode will continue to be discussed, but I am glad at the logical conclusions thus far. However, the town also has to discuss places to begin for lynch targets. As a player who has been in a lot of mafia games, and well didn’t think I would have to outline something like this, I shall. To begin with (ignore the fact its day 3 for the moment). Hosts will RNG roles and typically tweak the player list slightly. (making sure a group of first time players isn’t red vs a group of experienced players for instance). Some hosts will openly admit to doing this, some hosts will deny it. The truth of the matter is, every host does it. Be it by RNGing a role again, to physically swapping someones roles. (chuiu is exempt from this generalization as I know he didn’t). Now, everyone would tweak things the same way, but I will do a briefly outline of how I would do it if I were a host. Well known experienced players. (see names like ver, qatol, ace, caller, L, bloodyc0bbler, incognito, flamewheel, foolishness, etc…) Basically players who have a lot of experience. Not as well known experienced players (see names such as infundibulum, amber[light], opz, bumatlarge, chaoser, tree.hugger, d3, zeks) Rising stars (see names such as youngminii, DTA, Korynee, etc..) Completely new players (everyone else) Now, at this point, in the case of very few well known experienced players, they typically will be given town roles (note, usually townie, or non major blue) as they can help create order, and teach new players, or help guide the flow of things. In the case of many, usually a small group is placed in red as to compete against those who are town. In the case of a small group however, the mafia breakup is that of usually rising stars, or people who are experienced but can easily defend themselves in a pinch but rarely recognized to the general public. New players will be split among both groups as they need experience in every role still. Now, as a player, as well as a host, part of my playing style always includes looking at how someone may have balanced the game. note everyone does it differently so the way I would do things is not the same as any other host . It does however give me a starting ground on how to start scum hunting. In a game of this format, and even more specifically this game. I see of well known names most people would recognize as Myself, Citizen, and foolishness. We have all played in a fair amount of games and most new players at this point will most likely hear of our names quickly, read it in the thread, etc… We will usually be instantly distrustful of each other and be a balancing issue if we are town/red as we at our core will take longer to trust someone who is forced into a form of spotlight regardless of wanting to be there. Note: Pyrr isn’t included in this list as he may not be as well known after a large large break from mafia. We then have a large group of experienced players who aren’t as well known, but have played in many many games. They make up the core of the players this game. We have a few rising stars, and a smaller group of new players. To begin with scum hunting I would look at the list of the big 3 and realize that either 1 or none of us are red. The possibility of there being one however is what keeps us wary of eachother all game. Of the rising stars, I would say most likely with such a low count of them this game, also 1. As they would be expected to compete for top spot this game. Of the newer players, most likely 1-2. As their role doesn’t matter as much as they have to learn from square one regardless. Rest of the roles would be made up of people from the experienced group. Now, from there you have a general idea of lists breakups. List of 3 (or 4 if you count pyrr) names where 0-1 is red Foolishness, bloodyc0bbler, citizen (pyrr) A list of 2 where most likely 0-1 is red. Where 1 is more likely. DTA, Youngminii A list of 6 where 1-2 will most likely be red Siniquity, Southrawrea, Pandain, subversion, misder, protactinium T[hen everyone else to make up the last 2-4 red. From this you have a generalized standpoint of where to start looking. And with those lists in mind you look at posting histories, styles, voting patterns and the like to best narrow down the red on that respective list. Once a # of reds has been found off a list of grouped players, you can generally ignore it briefly. (note some hosts may not do it as I have laid out, but this is merely a starting format to work from). People will make slipups, imply or reveal they are working with so and so and one flips red then the other does, etc… It however gives everyone a generalized place to start and begin to try and narrow reds down as it puts the chances of nailing one earlier on higher than others. With all this in mind, I will be going back over the thread and analyzing people. Expect another large post in the next few hours. Just another thing I would add, the mafia gets to choose out of their team the GF, correct? So It is likely that they would choose a more experienced player to fit that role. So we should also be cautious of one of the high-experienced players being GF as well. not neccesarily. The GF is chosen to be the best player who a team will think will survive the longest. In a game a team has for instance 1 really experienced player and 1 rising star, 2 newbies and two semi experienced. Chances are the rising star, or a semi experienced will get it. The more experienced you are, the longer you can typically argue being potentially a miller, or get a dt who called you out condemned to death. It depends on a team and who they think best could fit the role. In the case of one really solid player and a bunch of newer ones, the really solid one will typically get it though as he would need to survive to instruct them. | ||
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On July 24 2010 10:31 tree.hugger wrote: Hahahaha, BC where was that Day 1? Also, I think we should lynch youngjeezy. He's like Subversion, (and tied to him) but more annoying. I think, seeing how he's rendered an opinion on practically everyone in the town by now, he's a lynch that'll keep on giving. I've thought he's mafia from the beginning, basically, and he's continued to get pretty much everything wrong since then. But I guess I'm open to lynching citi.zen as well, as he's been spectacularly unhelpful, and has been sitting firmly in that grey area between activity and inactivity that usually harbors at least half of the mafia. Up until the end of yesterday dude, I honestly didn't think a post like that was needed. I was wrong. I am still building up my post but will say this. young has 8 pages of posts that are just his, just the hell dude. lol | ||
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On July 24 2010 10:43 Subversion wrote: I strongly, strongly believe that youngminii is not scum. I really think we need to stop looking at the same people we have been since day 1/2, and start looking at new people with fresh eyes. The case against me was pretty ridiculous imo, based on 1 comment and an F'd vote count. youngminii is only in the spotlight because he was somehow, linked to me. How this happened I STILL do not know. We're still beating the same dead dogs. We need to target a different "group", I strongly feel that the youngminii/dta/me/chaoser thing that has been going since forever is the wrong group of people. The biggest issue I actually see with young isn't neccesarily that he is scum, but he is playing in such a disruptive manner that it makes it really hard to analyze players. He points his finger at alot of people, comes off super aggressive and spams an insane amount. It inhibits solid town play. As much as he seems town, he also doesn't seem to be doing a good job furthering town ideals. | ||
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This is extremely long, and god knows insanely tedious. Sinquity + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 07:51 SiNiquity wrote: [8] pandain - Voted Incognito; How do we know who's mafia?; Spam [7] Pyrrhuloxia - Supports DT down the list [5] youngminii - Spammed pg 13 [5] rastaban - Activity List; Lynch Inactive, worried about verifying RNG; DT should go down the list [5] SiNiquity - Almost mistook initial deaths for actual deaths; Lynch: 3 inactives + RNG; This activity list (can't link w/out edit) [4] divinek - Lynch inactives [4] BloodyC0bbler - Good guidelines; Inactive List + RNG, but need method to verify the RNG [3] lakrismamma - Lynch inactives [3] DarthThienAn - Spam [2] xelin - RNG Lynch [2] Amber[LighT] - Inactive until night of July 18th; Plan now, vote later; Lynch inactive [2] ~OpZ~ - Claims Chaoser, Darth, and Infundiblum are mafia; ER + Job interview [+ sarcasm?] [2] roffles - Lynch random person over inactive [2] Jayme - Lynch: Inactive = RNG in accuracy, up for either; Against Inactive List + RNG [1] tree.hugger - Lynch: 5 inactives + RNG [1] chaoser - Lynch inactives [1] bumatlarge - Bitter about Divinek railroading him [1] SouthRawrea - Voted Incognito, aka essentially posted nothing (11 posts total??) [1] Infundibulum - DT should not go down list to do rolechecks [1] d3_crescentia - Against RNG - same chance of landing blue as red [1] zeks - Lynch inactive, DT check active [1] Tricode - Kill least inactive idiot [0] hyperbola [0] brownbear [0] foolishness [0] Subversion [0] LaxerCannon [0] Misder [0] Citi.zen [0] ketomai The above list is a summary of what's happened since the beginning of the game. Post counts are in brackets, though of course don't just use this post, read the thread from the beginning and get a feel for each player. Also, of those that haven't posted since the beginning, those in italics are players who were marked as "posted" under rastaban's activity list. Maybe they haven't gotten around to the thread, or maybe they're trying to fly under the radar having already been marked as "active." If you feel I've characterized anything inaccurately or unjustly, please let me know. Took me about an hour to complete so it's entirely possible. Let nothing go unscrutinized! On July 20 2010 06:27 SiNiquity wrote: Sorry for my absence yesterday - visiting relatives (on my anniversary no less, though we celebrated last month prematurely while we were in Europe) went wayy longer than I thought. Went to bed thinking we weren't allowed to talk - glad BM changed his mind. Day 1 Votes: + Show Spoiler [Voting Record (ordered by votes)] + Pre-game votes: [link] jayme ==> Amber[LighT] [link] DarthThienAn ==> Abstain [link] DarthThienAn ==> d3_crescentia [link] d3_crescentia ==> DarthThienAn [link] citi.zen ==> DarthThienAn [link] rastaban ==> citi.zen Day 1 Votes [link] youngminii ==> Pyrrhuloxia [link] Pandain ==> Incognito [link] SouthRawrea ==> Incognito (edited to Abstain few hours later) [link] ~OpZ~ ==> Chaoser [link] BloodyC0bbler ==> Abstain [link] bumatlarge ==> Divinek [link] Pandain ==> BloodyC0bbler [link] Hyperbola ==> SiNiquity [link] LaXerCannon ==> Abstain [link] youngminii ==> Abstain [link] Divinek ==> Abstain [link] Tricode ==> Abstain [link] Misder ==> Hyperbola [link] Divinek ==> Hyperbola [link] Pandain ==> Hyperbola [link] Pyrrhuloxia ==> Abstain [link] Zeks ==> Hyperbola [link] SiNiquity ==> Hyperbola [link] Roffles ==> Abstain [link] tree.hugger ==> LaXerCannon [link] Foolishness ==> Abstain [link] Lakrismamma ==> LaXerCannon [link] Lakrismamma ==> Subversion [link] BloodyC0bbler ==> Pandain [link] ~OpZ~ ==> BloodyC0bbler [link] Pyrrhuloxia ==> DarthThienAn [link] XeliN ==> Brownbear [link] iNfuNdiBuLuM ==> youngminii [link] youngminii ==> iNfuNdiBuLuM [link] citi.zen ==> ketomai [link] XeliN ==> youngminii [link] chaoser ==> Abstain [link] Amber[LighT] ==> Abstain [link] tree.hugger ==> DarthThienAn [link] Amber[LighT] ==> youngminii [link] Roffles ==> youngminii [link] lakrismamma ==> ketomai [link] DarthThienAn ==> Amber[LighT] [link] bumatlarge ==> Hyperbola [link] BrownBear ==> Hyperbola [link] Protactinium ==> Abstain [link] Jayme ==> youngminii [link] Foolishness ==> BloodyC0bbler [link] Misder ==> LaXerCannon [link] zeks ==> Abstain [link] Subversion ==> Hyperbola + Show Spoiler [Voting Record (ordered by player)] + jayme ==> Amber[LighT] ==> youngminii DarthThienAn ==> Abstain ==> d3_crescentia ==> Amber[LighT] d3_crescentia ==> DarthThienAn citi.zen ==> DarthThienAn ==> ketomai rastaban ==> citi.zen youngminii ==> Pyrrhuloxia ==> Abstain ==> iNfuNdiBuLuM Pandain ==> Incognito ==> BloodyC0bbler ==> Hyperbola SouthRawrea ==> Incognito/Abstain ~OpZ~ ==> Chaoser ==> BloodyC0bbler BloodyC0bbler ==> Abstain ==> Pandain bumatlarge ==> Divinek ==> Hyperbola Hyperbola ==> SiNiquity LaXerCannon ==> Abstain Divinek ==> Abstain ==> Hyperbola Tricode ==> Abstain Misder ==> Hyperbola ==> LaXerCannon Pyrrhuloxia ==> Abstain ==> DarthThienAn Zeks ==> Hyperbola ==> Abstain SiNiquity ==> Hyperbola Roffles ==> Abstain ==> youngminii tree.hugger ==> LaXerCannon ==> DarthThienAn Foolishness ==> Abstain ==> BloodyC0bbler Lakrismamma ==> LaXerCannon ==> Subversion ==> ketomai XeliN ==> Brownbear ==> youngminii iNfuNdiBuLuM ==> youngminii chaoser ==> Abstain Amber[LighT] ==> Abstain ==> youngminii BrownBear ==> Hyperbola Protactinium ==> Abstain Subversion ==> Hyperbola Comments: + Show Spoiler [Look at the data yourself first] + Few things that jumped out at me: • Jayme voted for youngminii, not Amber[LighT] (brings youngminii's vote up to 5 from 4 - this is important, as you'll see in a bit). • Subversion Votes for Hyperbola with a one liner as night approaches, 45 minutes before the deadline. The vote was previously tied at 5-5. There wasn't a vote count with the Jayme mistake in it, as Jayme voted in between the Last Non-Final Vote Count (4.5 hours before deadline) and the Final Vote Count. It could be a freak coincidence, and had it been left at tied Hyperbola would've won, as he achieved more votes first. But maybe it was too close for comfort, as it was 7 - 5 before two people unvoted Hyperbole. Who's to say another wouldn't have jumped ship? Putting it 6-5 made it more secure. • youngminii as implied by the Subv.'s move. Again, this could be coincidence. • Rastaban left his vote on citi.zen, a pre-game/pre-role vote, despite promising to change it. He doesn't disappear after this, but rather continues in the thread to argue about the lynch/no-lynch debate, even up until a few hours before the deadline, without ever changing his vote. • citi.zen and lakrismamma left their votes on ketomai, someone who was almost assuredly going to get mod-killed. Citi.zen did this initially to "get ketomai to participate," and lak followed suit, though when ketomai didn't participate (obv. modkill target) the vote should've been moved, especially after he was replaced by Protactinium. Likely a simple mistake, but should've been addressed more when DTA points out the wtf'ness • BrownBear sticks out to me for the reasons already been covered. You'd think he's never played Mafia before based on the way he's playing, but that's hardly the case. On July 22 2010 11:03 SiNiquity wrote: Much love BM. I just went through and tallied the votes since the start of day 2 because I was tired of all the miscounts (and wanted independent verification). Your tally is the first correct count since chaoser counted 10-15 pages back (tho Rastaban was often close). ## Unvote Abstain ## Vote Chaoser I could be a total sucker, but I believe Subversion, and Chaoser reminded me of pre-post-edit? Annnd apparently I walk away from computers and forget to hit post. -_- Hmm interesting. So BC is either a Veteran or was protected by the remaining medic (orr Medics can protect the night they're killed, and Roffles protected BC). Is that last one even possible? Now, these are only a few of the posts sinquity has made, but they show a general trend from day 1 and 2 posting where all he seems to do is post very short amounts of content. He has many posts where he quotes large posts and replies with very little, but on average spends most of the first two days talking about vote lists from day 1, then after his day 2 vote goes inactive for over 24 hours. I have ignored the day 3 posts as they are currently current and seems that he is taking a step out of his shell. My overall impression is that he is a Mafia being heavily coached, or a town who was unsure of how to contribute as he seemed to be posting, but nothing of real substance till today. Hopefully time will raw him out of his shell, but as it seems now, that isn’t something I see happening without heavy motivation. I am hopeful that this post calling him out will force him to contribute properly. Infundibulum + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 03:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Ignoring vigi/hatter kills and vet/medic protections and double lynch, Worst case scenario for town is 6 days at 3 town members/day at which point 18 townies are dead and numbers are equal. However given mafia vote swinging and town inactivity/stupidity, 5 missed lynches is probably our cutoff point for certain death. I haven't taken the time to do precise math, but it seems to me that blue roles in our setup slightly favor town, however if i'm reading the rules right the mafia have 2kp until they get down to 3 members, which is nice for them. DT's can day 1 check if they want, though i dunno if this is a really great idea since it would mostly be a blind rolecheck. But i also don't want to say 'don't do it all.' DT's should not go down the list for their rolechecks though. This is a dumb idea and we simply don't have the luxury of time. I think DT should use his analysis and intuition to check suspicious players, like normal. On July 18 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: RNG lynch is dumb because you have more of a chance to land on a townie, and then he could be a helpful townie. if we lynch an inactive we're killing someone who probably would not have helped us anyway however, i don't want to lynch someone that would just get modkilled since that's obviously a waste. Bill, how many votes can someone miss before they get zapped? On July 18 2010 16:16 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: ugh i'm about to go to bed. i'm gonna sleep on this and vote when i wake up tomorrow. here's the thing that you guys need to realize that some other people have already pointed out: 1. No lynch (all abstain) is anti town and allows mafia to eke out a lynch on a green 2. RNG lynch is only slightly less bad with a higher chance hitting a blue than a red 3. We should be using our day 1 lynch to kill someone who is being STUPID. This way we either kill a stupid townie (a burden) or a stupid mafia (yay!) 4. Don't PM Opz. There is more to his posts, but that is a generally decent pool to snag from. From everything I can see infundi is playing extremely pro town, and coupled with has only had one major person he has argued with being youngminii. He has managed to consistently provide fairly level advice and surprisingly been largely ignored. Since he is considered a more experienced player (his background in TL mafia would also agree that he should be) the lack of really anyone listening to him is vaguely surprising to me. I believe he also needs to be a bit more active/forceful to get his point across, but extremely pro town as of this point in time. southrawrea + Show Spoiler + On July 17 2010 10:48 SouthRawrea wrote: We should like.. have a village bonfire where we eat marshmallows and tell spookie stories in the afternoon. Welcome to southrawrea, the classic case of a mafia member “being active”. I’m not sure how he has been missed this long as well, almost all his posts are useless, rehashing old information someone has said, or obvious filler posts to distract people from how inactive he has been. Considering he hasn’t been very active overall, and coupled with the style of posts he is making, I am sure he is mafia, and IMO someone we should consider lynching. If anyone doubts it, go read all his posts for yourself, you will see what I mean. If you refuse to go read his posts, take the sample I have given and make your decision off that. BumatLarge + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 05:29 bumatlarge wrote: I personally think divinek is mafia. Because he sucks. Oh my god he sucks. ##Vote Divinek Now, bumatlarge is guilty of a few things. Posting random things that barely contribute to the game. He seems to surf activity appearing active, yet not active. He has jumped on multiple bandwagons without contributing anything horribly insightful for the level of experience he possess’. Overall it has been a fairly bad play from him if hes town, while good play if hes mafia. I would recommend him as another strong lynch target. Youngminii Oh god this will be a nightmare + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2010 12:55 youngminii wrote: Oh yeah I totally forgot lynching an inactive is exactly the same as abstaining. Heh, obvious lack of logic in my plans. On July 18 2010 20:46 youngminii wrote: Okay I find it funny how BC and citi.zen go nuts over how I said (half jokingly) scum list instead of list of people under scrutiny. I get that this is the phase of the game where you pick apart the tiniest words of everyone but that's just ridiculous. Anyway, what's with Opz randomly saying everyone should PM him? Is he some mafia veteran god? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, why would you even try and ask that? Do you honestly think people will PM you or are you scum trying to bait the newbies for some free blue kills? @ Subversion: There's been nothing interesting. You're clearly misreading the thread if you see anything interesting because it's a bunch of people (including myself) in complete disarray talking about stuff that no one else agrees with. As for hyperbola's bandwagon: it has absolutely no reasoning behind it but it is day 1. I'd prefer abstaining/lynching someone that's about to be modkilled but so many of you are against that with no good reason and decide to lynch someone based on the smallest reasoning founded on RVS. On July 18 2010 21:01 youngminii wrote: Actually, I'm not going to overlook it. Why would you place a vote on me 'just in case'? Especially after you heard BC say I was a strong player (which citi.zen evidently disagrees with)? You have these two guys criticising my post when it's not even serious, you jump on this bandwagon and then put a placeholder vote on me just in case? Does this not strike you as scummy at all? Overly scummy but scummy nonetheless? In fact, I think this is the scummiest post I have seen all game (not that long). However, I don't think you're really that bad at this game and even a mediocre scum wouldn't do that kind of mistake. Will need confirmation on other more experienced TL mafia players on your meta. On July 18 2010 21:46 youngminii wrote: There was only one thing that they did point out and that's the only thing that was directed at me, hence I responded to it. Obvious blue advice? Really? Do you honestly believe that all 30 people in this thread know exactly how to play blue? Do you really think that each and every new person in here knows how to play their role perfectly? So in the case of all 30 people knowing the exact way to play without any discussions as to any plans we should just leave it at that and not discuss our options? You can't be that stupid, I refuse to believe it. Also, what already answered questions? Back up your statements with evidence please. How is telling the town to abstain not a good idea? I'm willing to accept criticism of my ideas, but I'm not willing to just sit back and watch as someone comes in, votes for me as a placeholder in case a bandwagon is formed on me (which I suppose is pre-emptive bandwagoning) and then says my ideas are not good. Information Instead of Analysis. In fact, IIoA is a big scumtell in my experiences in other mafia sites (not sure about TL since this site is actually quite a lot different). I never said citi.zen said I was good. In fact, I implied citi.zen said I was quite bad. I don't critique citi.zen's play because as far as I can tell, people seem to believe his meta is good but if he continues to critique me, so be it. I don't care. Your 'just in case' is the same as bandwagoning, except you're doing it early. You think there might be a chance that people will start voting for me so you put your vote on me 'just in case'. Biggest hidden form of bandwagoning imo. My conclusion: You're either a really bad scum, really bad townie, or a fucking bad blue. ##Bote infundibulum On July 19 2010 03:37 youngminii wrote: It looks like it's a toss up between hyperbola(5), DTA(3), and myself(4). I personally think the bandwagon on hyperbola is the dumbest thing in the world. Everyone that's been on that bandwagon should have their posts as to why they jumped on analysed later on. The main argument against DTA is that he's lurking as scum so that he doesn't draw attention to himself. You've put your pressure on him and he isn't responding. A lurker would pop up and defend himself, especially with only about 5 1/2 hours 'til the deadline. As for myself, the bandwagon is less stupid than hyperbola's because it actually has a reason/substance behind it. However, it's still pretty bad because I'm being targeted because I offered a plan and generated discussion. This is why lynching on the first day is a terrible, terrible idea. The scum can blend in with the town so well and even lurk a bit. They'll just leave people to lynch each other on the first day or two and before you know it, it's lylo. No lynching is a gift, use it. If not, lynch an inactive (someone that's about to be modkilled). I am 99% certain that whoever gets lynched today will not be scum, simply because it is way too easy for scum not to draw attention on the first day. On July 21 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote: Oh right. ##Vote chaoser I also say we lynch BB at a later date just to see what he is. What's more ridiculous than the hyperbola bandwagon is the subversion bandwagon, unless I missed some important post. I have this instinctive feeling that BB/DTA might be scum and most of the people voting for subversion are scum protecting BB/DTA. On July 21 2010 08:32 youngminii wrote: FoS tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darththienan, chaoser On July 21 2010 10:50 youngminii wrote: My scumdar indicates that Subversion is not scum. I think that his bandwagon has to be one of the most interesting developments in the game so far. I refuse to believe that a load of townies simply jumped on because he said 'mafia aren't making too many mistakes'. There is at least one mafia in his bandwagon and I am convinced it is chaoser. On July 21 2010 14:27 youngminii wrote: My suspicion on infindouwioej4l5k23wtgjfxvpcohinkium is still here, it's just a lot smaller than everything else going on right now. On July 22 2010 03:40 youngminii wrote: I honestly don't understand Amber[light]'s vote on Subversion, it makes absolutely no sense to me. Anyway, while I think chaoser is more likely to be scum than DTA, I'm not going to be all like OMG YOU SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR DTA JUST BECAUSE OF ONE POST!!! That said, I think we should have been more careful before lynching DTA because the arguments seem a bit weak. Yes, there was a whole WALL of text explaining why we should lynch DTA but if you actually read the post you'd know there are lots of flaws in it. Let's begin dissecting Pyrr's post. Cool! You gave a whole bunch of Information Instead of Analysis![badtownplay] Oh hey guys, here's a bunch of stuff that was said about/by DTA and since I quoted it, you should trust me in that it points to him being mafia![/badtownplay] So you're saying someone that is as good as DTA (you're all making him out to be quite good, I'm not too sure how good he is), is bad enough to completely swap their playing style after their original style worked bar one or two mistakes? You really think he'd go from one extreme to the other as scum to 'avoid' suspicion? That's like the total opposite of what would happen (case in point: it's happening right now). Oh yeah, intuition is awesome. We should always rely on our intuition to win us this game of analysis. I mean, clearly your intuition was correct about Foolishness being blue/red. Again, you're saying just because DTA is taking a low profile that he's scum. You can't just say "he's playing different, scum!" WHY does playing different make him scum, WHY does playing the total extreme of the way he played before make him scum. What about real life issues? What about the fact that he would be responding to these accusations if he really was mafia and was simply lurking? Cause and effect. Just because Foolishness was pointing at DTA doesn't mean that it's why he died. I mean, it COULD be but the way you're selling it is as if it's the absolute truth. That's just complete bullshit. I don't even know how the fuck you had the balls to come up with that list that completely condemns DTA and criticizes his play. You're assuming he's some horrible player and basing his scum play based on this assumption, when the general consensus is that DTA is a good player. But hey, I don't mind if you lynch him. As you guys have said, he hasn't been very helpful this game. I mean hell, if he's blue/green it only buys me credibility which is needed for the late game. On July 22 2010 14:54 youngminii wrote: I dunno I feel as if I'll get NK'd tonight. My spidey senses are tingling. On July 22 2010 14:58 youngminii wrote: Don't want to bring back the useless debate, ignoring your post. On July 24 2010 07:24 youngminii wrote: Sup. ##Vote chaoser On July 24 2010 09:51 youngminii wrote: Oh and I guess I forgot to mention: Chaoser joins infundilbusxum in his accusation against me (during the spam/flame war). Notice how chaoser never actually fully accused me by himself even though I was so against him? He's too careful to try and start something against me because that would give him even more negative light when I don't flip red. But with his mate at his side and my gaining a bad image from my 'anger', he takes the opportunity to cause me some trouble. On July 24 2010 10:35 youngminii wrote: Sup. I'd like to know, when have I been wrong The time when I said hyperbola was town? Or DTA was town? Or that you were spreading around PMs saying to lynch Subversion and that I was linked to Subversion? Oh yeah, I can see how wrong I was. That’s a small sample of young’s 8 pages of frigging spam. To give you a general idea as a summary, whenever someone FoS him, he attacks back in a vengence, he spams, FoS many many players (some groundless some he just jumps on whatever they post), he has been aggressive, derails, and even after we tried to move day 2’s terribleness behind us he jumped on the lets kill chaoser boat again. He has used a bunch of WIFOM as his defense, dodged some questions others not. Overall hes a genius mafia, or a player so disruptive its making the town lose track. Now, we have options. Southrawrea seems like a good hinge bet based on his posting style, as does bumatlarge who fits for other good reasons. Young if nothing else is a fallback if we can’t agree on anyone else as offing someone who is aggravating to read or makes playing the game unenjoyable for others gives the mafia an advantage that (if hes town) the town can’t afford. I would advise everyone to go back and look at these players posts, ones I have sampled, and more if you want a broader pool, and come to your own conclusions. Once you have done so we can discuss who we believe would be the best option for the days lynch and get this underway properly rather than doing it the long/hard way as day 2 showed was the wrong approach. If anyone has any questions, or wants me to expand upon anything feel free to ask, as I am more than happy to do so, With all this in mind I am going to start it off by voting for southrawrea and if the concensus for the town is that we want to off one of the other two, I am fine with that as well. However, I will not be voting for any other target at this junction unless someone can come up with a clear argument as opposed to the mess that we have already experienced. ##vote Southrawrea | ||
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Tree.Hugger: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5740578 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5747605http://www.teamliqhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5749524uid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5749520http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5750215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5752728 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5754219[/url post_id=5755140]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5755140 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5758069 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=5761145 Out of the Day 2 accusation area to fix the huge insane fuckup of quote/spoiler tags that had happened making the damn post completely unreadable. | ||
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On July 24 2010 12:05 citi.zen wrote: Ok, let's blow this taco stand. I am a mad hatter. I am part of a dt circle. I would love to help the two dt's connect. Here's how we can do it: 1. Wait to see if there is a counter claim against me and Tricode, since together we should account for the 2 town Kp roles. If there isn't, we are both confirmed. If there is, we have a red player. 2. The other dt asks a confirmed person they checked to contact me. If more than one person comes forward I will ask the dt to claim. This way, if the mafia decide to fake claim we have two reds, not just one. 3. The two DTs, remaining publicly anonymous, are in contact. We give ourselves a chance to win. Wait wait wait, what? So not only do we have you claiming the second KP role, your claiming your in touch with a dt, that your confirmed, and are now requesting a player the other dt has confirmed to check in and ask the dt to claim..... So, someone starts to FoS you, you then claim amazing inner circle, and are asking the DT or if nothing else a confirmed townie to trust you 100%. The DT's in your plan stay anonymous, except are forced to claim to people they haven't verified opening up confirmed people to potentially die, and yourself an easy out if either of them die by accusing the other persons "confirmed" person as red. Now as much fun as this would be We have two town KP roles claiming today. neither of which are confirmed (counterclaims could disprove this but requires wasting dt checks, lynches, time, and opening up everything to a bomber). Seriously people read the post, he is asking for a way into a town circle a dt has begun without confirming himself in the least, this is shady shady play and citizen knows it. Then couple it with On July 24 2010 12:57 citi.zen wrote: People like spam and I want this to be easy to find. Also: if there is no counter-claim by tomorrow it would be wise for all blues to RC to me. Would a shame to lynch / investigate / bomb the wrong person. Thanks. And you not only have him requesting DT's hes requesting all blues to roleclaim him. NO ONE, should be roleclaiming someone unconfirmed asking for so much out of the blue for this. This is beyond the matter of a simple roleclaim, and is now potentially a game ender for whatever side citizen actually is. Public roleclaims are bad enough, adding in a complete grab for blues is even worse. | ||
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On July 24 2010 14:02 youngminii wrote: I do disagree with the mass blue roleclaim, there's always the possibility of citi.zen faking it. However, I don't see what the problem is if someone that's representing the DT PM's citi.zen. Ok take it this way. Your the representative of DT X (usually means he's checked you) you message citizen. He turns out to be faking it. Based on who you are, he can guess potentially who a) checked you b) talk to you enough to garner trust or manipulate other people in your circle (potentially the dt) feed you crock information on who's confirmed to bring back etc... Your opening yourself up to getting potentially raped by trusting someone with entrance to what should be a completely secure circle. This is just a quick problem with it, I am sure if someone sat down and looked at it longer, a number of more issues would appear. | ||
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On July 24 2010 14:11 youngminii wrote: Let's say I am representing DT X and I message citi.zen. I would obviously be wary of a fake claim and not give him too much information. I would also ask him to tell me who the DT is, which is kind of obvious isn't it? If I'm claiming and citi.zen doesn't receive a second claim, then obviously the trust groups that I'm in and citi.zen are in are both confirmed. Then he should be able to trust my group and give us his DT. It's not very hard. You are assuming he is representing a real dt however, and doesnt give you the name of a GF (who has appeared as a dt), or forces you to waste a check on someone else, etc... The potential for two circles too work better is higher as the less people with a huge knowledge base means less chance for major fuckups (one circle is infilitrated you say lose 1 dt) one giant circle and its infiltrated you lose both dts, and potentially more. What he is proposing is something we should be picking apart before we are sure of it rather than blindly going "hey I agree, great stuff, you a champ" Remember, we just spent pages discussing me/tricode, and in the last page since his claim there has been one person aside from myself to really speak up. | ||
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On July 24 2010 14:13 youngminii wrote: What's suspicious is that you're trying to block this from happening. Not pointing fingers but it's quite obvious that this is a pretty solid plan with minimal chances of being infiltrated by scum, even then it will be obvious as the game progresses if he's lying or not. From blocking it? I actually contest many claims in many games that are completely out of left field. No one agreed to claiming to someone who thought d3 was almost fully legit, yet your agreeing to claim to someone who has appeared out as the last KP role? as well as saying "sup im the medic spokesmen, got myself a circle already" etc... Its too good to be true this early. | ||
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On July 24 2010 14:25 Divinek wrote: But surely if he's coming out as the last kp role it would have to be contested if he's lying? Though I could think of some reasons why the remaining kp person might not want to counter claim him it seems like it would be worth it to bust a fake circle of trust Say for instance He is lying. It means two dts (if not in contact with eachother) pm him themselves, or through a mouth, those mouths are then talking to him. He can put them in contact with eachother, they see it as semi legit, then a period goes by they all mass claim him (as he asked for blue roles) he then proceeds to blue snipe, where it costs the rest only one red, to off 2+ blues. WE also don't know if the last KP role is a hatter or a vig. If its a vig, he counterclaims and then it comes down to a war of which of them gets lynched. People fearing that he is in fact a hatter, off the vig see his flip and go oh shit. Conversely the mafia could send someone up and do the same thing. I believe the proper amendmant to citi.zens plan is if HE is not the center of said circle. Or be lynched to prove the legitmacy of his claim. He can put the other checked person his dt has checked with the the other dt's liason and by dying confirms his claim DT's can then claim straight through the liasons, and one of those liasons can take part of town leadership and pass roles to dts. There would be two people to counterclaim if someone tried to jump up and take info, and would be alot more reliable than trusting one persons word. The only issue with that plan is if he is infact hatter then the town would have lost its last kp role and hope that his current bomb placement takes reds out. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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You offered a plan that your “confirmation” was no counter claim. A dt has to prove he’s a DT after day 2 by handing over a red typically. A vig has to have wasted a shot and been willing to die (see tricode), a hatter would have to offer to sacrifice their-self. Instead you offered a plan that relies on everyone to implicitly trust your word. You are aware of what a hatters job would be, just as much as you know trust in a mafia game isn’t freely given like your asking. Ontop of that your asking for all the blues to claim to you? You have offered nothing but a plan with holes ones you knew were open. Also, if you were really the hatter, you would most likely have a bomb on me already, so are you willing to lay your life on the line Godfather? If your legit you would be able to put the dt the other person your dt confirmed in contact with the other dt liason and would let claiming possible to them. Shall we do this rationally then? Once the two DTs are connected, you are no longer needed. So you should be willing to do your job. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On July 24 2010 15:16 Pandain wrote: I'm so confused T_T. As long as the other vigi/mad hatter counter claims we know Cit.zen is mafia. If no one counter claims, then he is NOT mafia. Therefore he's confirmed. So why NOT pm him? BloodyC0bbler, maybe you're just confuzzled or maybe I am but can you please explain to me how the above logic does not make sense. We actually don't know that actually. Anyone could counterclaim (bored townie, a real hatter, red) and you would never know who was the legit one without lynching someone. Citizen proposed a plan that requires some form of proof, and he is in a position to do that. No one has any real proof of citizens role until he actually fulfills its condition. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On July 24 2010 15:28 youngminii wrote: Now who's the one causing spam/clutter. It's a solid plan. If he's scum it doesn't matter, he's not going to learn the identities of any blues/DTs. Also, it'll become inherently obvious that he's scum (alongside with his 'DT') by the way the game turns out. Stop arguing a lost cause, it's a good plan apart from the blue mass claim. Do you not realize how pm circles work? He is the direct contact of a "dt" who would be working with the contact of another dt, etc.. If hes red, two people pm him seperately with contacts, he can get info quite easily once you know who someone is. Offs them. If red, his DT is actually non existant. He could be GF who got checked dt went "hurr most likely legit what gf would choose hatter" and gave info, and then ends up getting filtered (as he's still the voice of his dt) so he still gets fed info from the other dt via a chain. HE still ends up in a better position. You would get tops of one red, for however many confirmed blues/greens you give him + names of circles to snipe. It bewilders me that this is lost on you when he can easily prove his case while maintaining the circle he wants to create. | ||
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On July 24 2010 15:35 Pandain wrote: If he's GF, that would require some DEEP DEEP thinking. I mean, he'd have to be Funkmaster Jesus in order to know that. Look at it: 1)He'd have to know vigi would shoot, therefore being hatter could help. 2.)If he's not hatter, the real hatter will say so, therefore causing us to know one of them is scum. 3)Wouldn't that DT already be dead? why would they let a DT live. To find the other DT? Why would a DT claim to someone who could be the GF. He doesn't need a vig to shoot, the vig could die, he could claim he was a vig after, hold kp and claim his hit was blocked + other red claims he took a hit, etc... Keeping a DT alive in a setup like this can actually help you nap the other dt, or a mess of blues, etc... You mention deep deep thinking, and people do think like this in mafia. Most plans of these types require confirming yourself. As i said before dt hands off a red, if the accused flips town, you nailed a red. etc... You also assume the real hatter would claim right away. SEEing someone fake claim means if he claims now he potentially gets voted and dies while his bombs aren't placed appropriately and would die to nap one red, when his job is to nap two. A legit hatter in this plan would have an idea of where to have at least one of his bombs, but more importantly knows his life would have his bombs go off, as well as giving the town a circle he wants. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On July 24 2010 15:46 youngminii wrote: Can you pay attention for a minute? I'm saying that he gives the second DT group the name of the original DT. The second DT group can confirm with the DT that citi.zen claims is DT. If he does claim, then it's guaranteed that either citi.zen + DT are both scum or citi.zen + DT are both town. Information such as 'this guy is blue' won't be given out (until maybe later in the game where it's pretty much confirmed that the groups are real), only 'this guy is not red' would be passed around. We would get tops of TWO reds and he doesn't get any blue information until later. I can't believe you don't see this, it's blatantly obvious. Your also assuming that his DT is fine with his name being passed along to until they can confirm eachother an unconfirmed "dt" which leads into possible mafia faking dt to get his info. So instead of bagging two red, a dt can still die. Your idea also has its problems. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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I proposed a sure fire way to A) confirm hes legit + he uses his ability b) his DT is automatically confirmed by proxy, as would be whoever he checks, then its just a matter of the second dt pming the second confirmed person to citizens dt and voila, you have a circle made that is confirmed via 1 death, as opposed to blind trust. C) its alot harder for mafia to fake as they can't fake hatters powers when they die. I'm not exactly sure why you want citizen to be in charge of said circle, when it can be better confirmed legit with his death. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:02 youngminii wrote: Just pointing out that point C) is moot 'cause when you flip, you flip your role. And yes, I am assuming both DTs have a trust circle. It would be pretty funny if the DTs weren't making trust circles, wouldn't it? The confirmation process you're describing seems like an unnecessary town (mad hatter) lynch to me. Also, what about the bombs he's placed? Seems to me that you could be scum and by offing citi.zen you're potentially getting 3 kills in one go. It seems more beneficial if town just believes in the plan without all the tiny points that you're bringing up at the last minute. Because I am 100% certainbased on how hes been playing that if he is legit there is a bomb on me. He has posted more than once that he has suspicions on me, so regardless, I'd die. So if i was scum, no it wouldn't be 3 free kills. You are taking huge leaps of faith whereas you shouldn't be in a position where if hes mafia, town loses. The tiny holes you are describing are actually quite large and I gave a plan to fix said hole, and instead people are wanting to take everything in faith, very scary concept in mafia. IF a DT claimed he would have to offer a red, a vig would have to claim his shot and be willing to die to prove it/be checked, etc... The fact your expectations of a hatter in a much more sensitive spot doesn't meet the same standard is just odd. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:25 Pandain wrote: Now that I think about it... lynching him, wouldn't that be bad? I mean he has TWO bombs, therefore his bombs could be going off on innocent civilians! It is possible yes, but in the same regard, you get a 100% confirmed dt, who will check another dt and confirm him, then you have a fairly large circle, a group of dead players to mark off a player list, and the dts have a much smaller list to check off of and can be safe having very little doubt of infiltration. | ||
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On July 24 2010 16:36 youngminii wrote: My leaps of faith do not put us in a situation where if he's mafia town loses. I told you time and time again there's no loss for town if citi.zen is scum. You are the one taking leaps of faith saying "100% certain there's a bomb on me" and you seem to believe in all these little holes. They're not large, it's not town loss if citi.zen is scum and why would you want to off yourself (if you're so sure citi.zen has a bomb)? 3 lives is a huge price to pay just to check citi.zen. This is quite suspicious. I am not sure you really get the idea. There is a loss for town just by talking to citizen in the first place if hes scum. He would still represent a large piece of a circle for being unconfirmed. Also, 3 lives (it would suck completely if his bombs were both on town) However, it makes the dt's jobs easier to check. It gives a 100% confirmed alliance, lets them share notes on who checked who, when, gives them the ability to systematically find people and root them out. Someone flips red, kill them someone flips green they go on a list, flips blue go on a list. once you've offed all reds, move on to analyzing peoples posts for the most likely to be gf if hes not dead already. The cost is no worse than if he died at night and had his bombs on two townies, as this way his death actually gives information in the form of a confirmed circle. His play is game breaking for whatever side he is on, so what your calling tiny holes as i have said are actually very large. Just go back and do me a favour and see how hatters have been played previously, they have been used multiple times for information/double lynching, its not a strange concept for me to expect a similar play. | ||
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On July 24 2010 17:02 youngminii wrote: I don't mind if hatters are used for double lynching. The 'information' part doesn't apply because it's an open death setup. 3 lives is a huge amount and as I said, it doesn't break the game if he is scum. It will become overtly obvious if he is and two scum will be ours for the taking. I have an even better plan than your 'kill 3 people to confirm 1 DT'. Why can't we get the second DT to just check the proposed DT and citi.zen? Your logic seems like that of one who's grasping at straws. There's absolutely no downside to the plan if citi.zen is scum. We don't need a huge trust circle that is passing on every single bit of information with each other, which wouldn't be optimal even if the DTs were confirmed because of possible GF in the group. We just need a huge trust circle that is passing on the relevant information. Actually, your wrong. IT takes two nights for a dt to clear a dt and a hatter, that means 4 night kills for mafia, which is > than the 3 if the hatter dies. I don't get you, you seem far to willing to trust a play that is game breaking without realizing its consequences. You don't get two mafia if hes fake claiming You get him. As if he is a red claiming, two dts are sending him information via their curriors unless they were stupid and roleclaimed him themself. This gives him an in to both dts. If someone so much as slips up in pms once, info is given, a dt is dead. Hell just knowing who is in a circle can help you figure out who else is in that same circle. I do get where you are coming from but you honestly don't see the bigger picture. | ||
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On July 24 2010 17:13 youngminii wrote: The bigger picture: He gives the DT's name to the groups hence there are 2 scum on the line. What are scum gonna do knowing that this guy is green and that guy is green? It will become extremely obvious later in the game if they are lying, an easy out. DT checking them is always a viable option. 4 night kills for mafia in two nights. 2 hatter kills + hatter death + 2 night kills for mafia in one night. No. Add in the additional potential for town lynches thats potentially 6 kills in two days? again, more deaths. also something becoming obvious late game isnt useful if they have information garnered early game. If the gf slides into the mix its done. So you may get one, but not before they do nasty things. | ||
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On July 24 2010 17:20 youngminii wrote: What information? I'm running under the assumption no 'important' information will be passed along. I hope they're smart enough not to tell each other what blue roles they've found. dude your trusting someone with a game breaking plan and assuming someone isn't going to pass information of whos been cleared (even if all you say is cleared) down a line. People screw up in pms all the time. the longer a mafia sits in with them with you the higher chance you have to screw up. | ||
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On July 24 2010 20:19 lakrismamma wrote: I love mafia! You wake up in the morning and so much has changed. Did you read my post about claiming citi =) I think that if no one claims mad hatter or vigi then tricode and citi.zen are pretty much in the clear. I dont think you should blueclaim to him but he will act as a link between the two detectives. If it is as he say and he has a circle with one of the detectives then the other will have one of his checked ones PM citi. Then citi will provide the name of the DT he is contact for. The DT gets checked during the night and then we have a big towncircle with a spokesman. If 2 people claims to be contacts for the DT then its more complicated but then I guess citi.zens DT have to weed out the claims. I think BC is being very suspicious in not not coming with any ideas except delaying the claims. I find it weird as well that he dident include Misder in his little investigation. Misder is one of the scummyest people in the game I think. For now though since we could not abstain too much according to BM. ##vote doublelynch ## vote abstain Thanks for appearing after I went to sleep, its nice to know I get to wake up to stuff like this. Now, if you read the bolded text you can easily see a mistake in your reasoning. In the case of multiple DT mouths talking to citizen, rather than him clear his legimacy, your having him instant 100% cleared and his dt clears the others....If he is red, you just handed him the entire dt list, good job. Best plan so far. IF he is legit, we have no way of proving this. Regardless, your plan requires 100% trust pretty well in him. As for why I haven't analyzed misder? So what? I opted to snag people I saw obviously coasting/acting scummy. You know, rather than fingering me for who I didn't analyze, maybe you should spend time analyzing said person. Hell if you think you believe they are scum, maybe you should give a reason why other than "I think" Trying to put suspicion on me for who I didn't analyze is like saying "You contributed, but because your scum list and mine don't overlap 100% you must be red" instead of contributing yourself. On July 24 2010 20:51 citi.zen wrote: First off, I am not asking anyone to take my word. I explained this already: I am putting myself out there with this claim. If I am red there is another town kp role who can point me out. As I said, you need to sacrifice a red to at least create some confusion. Are you willing to? Second, I have no problem dying to prove my innocence. It's an odd plan though, since if I am red the damage is already done after I have the dt names: the rest of the mafia team know them. So your "plan" does nothing in fact, even if I am red. So you're wrong on both counts. At this point I don't get why people can't see how obviously red you are. I say we lynch BloodyC0bbler for confirmation. If the other dt wants they can wait until your flip to talk to me. That is how sure I am you are red. Again your wrong. All you would be doing is handing the other checked person off down to the voice who contacts you. ALL you have at this point is a thread to the dts. IF you flip town, the job can still be carried out, if you flip red, a red just got bagged. There would be 0 roleclaiming or anything until you flipped. So no, stop trying to alter my wording to your advantage, you know just as well as I do that what you just said is complete bull. Hell you have also said elsewhere that you specifically said On July 25 2010 01:41 citi.zen wrote: Two things: if you trust me, you trust me DT. I got checked night 1 and personally chose night 2's check target. No way for the two of them to "play me". Second, multiple claims are fine. The mafia will give up 2 people. At night we investigate one of the competing groups. We get two reds either way. Clear? IE the second cleared person should be fully trusted by you and could easily handle the job in your place. No, instead you have pushed a plan that had holes, and rather than trying to fix them you opted to lynch the first person to openly disagree with you. | ||
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On July 25 2010 04:27 chaoser wrote: If he IS bomber like he says he is, it'll just be me and him dying. That gives a lot of information against me/him such as those who where making a strong case against me/people who ADMITTEDLY jumped on him. If he's mafia, we just killed a mafia, good job, we still can't 100% trust citi.zen since it could be a ploy to sac one mafia to make the other one more trusted. Not saying that I don't trust you citi.zen, I'm just saying that's a possibility. It does give information, but depending on who citizens bombs are on could give more information. Although the less amount of people dying is advantageous. | ||
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He has pushed that people vote then vanished off the face of the earth. In the face of what he has proposed, why would he be inactive? He has to prove his plan is completely sound here, and what do I see, an inactive person trying to slide under the radar and stay "trusted" to garnish DT information be it their roles, or just who they have confirmed. He also has people who have been mostly inactive the majority of the game coming forth to defend him, where were they? they are all players who have played in multiple games and should see the same issues with his plan that Myself and others have. Instead they are blind trusting? That isn't something someone with experience would just do this early in the game. Until he really comes out to defend himself (not pointing fingers at others) but seriously address' the issues so far posted the last few pages, he is looking very scum ## vote citizen | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:15 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: You know on the other hand, if citizen is red this play doesn't make a lot of sense either, I mean mafia are at an advantage and a gambit like this is really risky and i'm not sure why he would do that instead of just playing it safe. Ugh, this is confusing. disorganize the town, potentially bag two dts, and cause a mess much like is happening. I am pretty sure he has a history of this sort of play from previous games. I could be wrong on the last bit, but I don't think I am. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:18 lakrismamma wrote: ¨ Citi.zen was cleared if no other claimed mad hatter. If he is clear then his DT should be clear if it is as he says? Now the situation is different. Misder was more of an observation. Im not so sure you are mafia now. Since I get to choose between citi.zen and Southrawrea south is far more likely and that would prove you right, Will you believe in citi.zen if South turns out red? Sure play the newbie card. What you really is trying to do here is make citi tell where he has his bombs right? WTF!! This is so mafia why should he tell where he placed his bombs. Only mafia has the need to know if the bombs are placed on them or not. You practicly told us you are mafia. ##unvote ##vote southrawrea see bolded part. He wasn't actually cleared with no counterclaim for a reason I listed earlier which was this IF you were the mad hatter and you saw someone claim your role, You know instantly he's most likely red. You then wait a day, move your bomb to him get lynched following day (confirms both of you). Instead, he said "if no one claims im legit." He did however get a claim, regardless, his point was moot regardless. I most likely wont trust citizen until he proves to be trustworthy. He is far too inactive at this point for the plan he proposed. He has legimate concerns raised against him, a counter claim, etc.... Where is he? Nowhere to be found, instead people who have been semi inactive all game have decided to vouch for him. It comes of as extremely suspicious. Also, it has no matter where he placed his bombs. If he has them on reds or not. A dt circle is still confirmed, and as much as dead townies suck to have, they do lower the dt pool of checked targets finding reds faster. Anyone who flips red dies, then its a hunt for the gf. If you find three of one blue role, boom you found him, etc... | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On July 25 2010 07:29 youngminii wrote: This is ridiculous, I can't believe this many people are actually voting for citi.zen. Let me say it one more time. There is more information to be gained if SouthRawr is lynched than if citi.zen is lynched. Also, you are a mafia noob, not just a mafia, not just a noob. Thing is your wrong. Citizen being lynched reveals us A) he is hatter b) he is gf c) he is suicide bomber d)he is townie playing huge gambit e) he is dt (would be bad and he would have to claim this to save himself, although by lying once he could be doing it twice) Now, if he is hatter, he dies kills two people (we get info based on who died remember), we get info based on those heavily accusing him, we get a confirmed dt (the one that checked him has checked someone else remember) his dt can then check the other dt confirming him and the circle is formed regardless and we get a ton of info. We lynch southrawr A) is mafia trying to save himself B) is hatter with one bomb on chaoser C) he flips green and we all go wtf If he dies, we find out hes either a red trying to save himself or that hes a hatter with a bomb on someone you have been pressuring to kill all game. Regardless of his death, all we know is he was inactive till being called out. we get no info on really anyone else in this game. You just want to get chaoser killed and are pushing this. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:41 lakrismamma wrote: Agaisn you are using the fact that people are looking up to you to present some solutions that are not evident at all.Not everybody would play like this I sure as hell wouldn't. I find it weird that you can chose between two people, oneof them is mafia. One you have already made a case against and told that he is most likely mafia. Still you vote on the other guy. Was you play earlier a scam to get people to trust you because you found Southrawrea as mafia? Simple, i based one persons scum level based on activity, and the person I am now voting for put out an option with holes and not only has not refuted them, has barely even touched the hatter claim. Instead he is rallying on "trust" to get him through without being here. What to you is more scummy? Someone proposing a make or break strategy with the idea of "trust me" while vanishing into the night, or someone who desperately wants to live. As for hatter play, maybe you wouldn't play like that BUT I am giving a logical idea of what someone might do. Just because you wouldn't do it, nor consider it a viable option is odd as your assuming someone else is completely legit, or that people always play this game under a normal sense of "logic". Not considering it a viable option because you wouldn't do it as other players might. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:44 youngminii wrote: This post doesn't even make sense. Citi.zen being lynched reveals either one of the 5 original scenarios. JUST ONE. And then what? Nothing. There's 2 bombs linked to citi.zen and that's two needless deaths. We lynch southrawr and one of those scenarios goes off again. Except each of those scenarios give more information than any of citi.zen's scenarios (except the DT one). However, if southrawr flips red then that's pretty much confirmation for citi.zen being in a DT group. Yes, I do believe chaoser is red. Yes, this is a great opportunity to get two scum kills. However I have logical reasoning. Your reasoning is flawed at best and you're continually circumventing my arguments and somehow getting away with it. I don't care if you're red or green or blue at the moment, all I know is that we have a golden opportunity at lynching two reds right now and you're standing in the way. I don't think you understand this. You have had an obvious vendetta against chaoser from day 1 it seems yet he is playing obviously more town aligned than you are. Where as he is being moderately helpful to a debate you keep finding new wonderful ways to try and get him killed. As for south dying? what information does it give if hes red? It doesn't link chaoser, it doesn't link really anyone. Citizens plan was bleh and its getting shown as such. Whereas you get information regardless of citizens flip, a fair bit of info actually, potential confirmed dt a day earlier, YOU GET INFORMATION ON ALL DEATHS, get that through your head now. Anyone who dies has information associated to them. They made posts, they were targeted for whatever reason, and it links back. If he is red we have offed a higher ranking red. IF he is a front man for a dt/hatter the general fact he lied to the town means he can't have power regardless as he could just keep lying. You seriously need to take a step back, take a deep breathe, then go back and start over. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:50 citi.zen wrote: You know offering South hasn't saved you, don't you? You just dug the hole deeper. You know letting your mafia fight your battles for you hasn't saved you right? It just shows how scum you are and hoping people miss it. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:56 youngminii wrote: @tree.hugger Except for the fact that we can go back and analyse all these posts if Southrawr dies. I'm already drawing links (publicly) to Southrawr and you're just blanketing the case on Southrawr. I don't know why you're doing this but okay. Say I'm silly and argue your case, I honestly don't know what's goign through your mind. dude your defending a guy whos only post in hours was a FoS on me. HE has ignored how many posts? seriously whats going through your mind. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:59 youngminii wrote: Better than siding with a guy who's many posts in many hours are filled with logical inconsistencies. How do we even know if citi.zen told the second DT party who his DT is? ... citizen if in the dt circle he claimed, wher ehe claimed he told the dt who to check day 2, has a confirmed townie (or he would have offered a red in his original plan). That townie can be the link that citizen wanted to be if citizen flips hatter as his circle just got instantly proven legit. Then the real dt could claim to that link, voila. Mafia faking the claim would get checked and off'd. How are you missing the obvious here? You speak about logical inconsistencies but are ignoring citizens, as well as your own. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:10 youngminii wrote: Wait you WANT DT to publicly claim? Are you kidding me? Did you forget Mafia have 2KP AND a suicide bomber in this game? Yes because publically claiming is what happens when a dt talks to a confirmed link no? Are you purposely missing what im saying? Citizen if hes legit in his group has a dt, himself and one other, that one other would be who the dt claims to. AFTER citizen flips. there is no public to it. IF mafia try to fake claim the link (shouldnt as citizen would be offering up said info if he were about to die if he was town), so if mafia tries to fake claim dt, or fake claim the link to be claimed to (ie mulitple claimers) you can dt check and remove. Voila dead mafia. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:14 citi.zen wrote: Town, if you really think I am red and out of the blue decided to fake claim in a game where nobody had put any pressure on me, you deserve to lose. I am out with the family for the evening. If you find that scummy on a Saturday I am speechless. Make the right call and this is over. The reds risked everything today: try to go after my credibility, try to question a solid plan on unfounded grounds, fake-claim right when a majority of players had correctly concluded I was telling the tuyth, try to get me lynched "to reveal information" (really to stop me from linking the two circles tonight). Just read the thread to see who did this - it's transparent as hell. when it was confirmed? You claimed just before SPL, on a friday night where you knew the activity level would drop. After those people crash and go to bed. Don't feign anything like that as we both know its hell. Address the issues you have obviously ignored and stop being so WIFOM. Your uncaring attitude is just indicator of why I think your scum | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:17 BrownBear wrote: I am so fucking confused right now. What I see it as: rastaban has a DT citi.zen has a DT youngminii has a DT Could 2 of these be the same DT? Or have we caught a falseclaimer/the GF? A more puzzling thing is this. Two mouths have claimed to citizen, and we have someone counter claiming? The pm rasta showed implies a third claimant (as i doubt citizen would count himself as one) Seems really odd to me. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:18 youngminii wrote: Here's some credibility for citi.zen. I don't care if you don't read this but know that if you're town and citi.zen dies tonight you have played against your win condition by a big deal. I represented my DT and claimed to citi.zen. Rastaban did the same. Citi.zen got two DT claims and so he knows something is wrong. If he was scum, he would have kept going as if everything was normal. Instead, he made both rastaban and myself aware that there were more than one DT group claiming. Citi.zen is in the best position possible as town and you should all see that. Except there was a third claim? at this point he should have come out and simply said "think i found the gf/reds in pms, we are having a field day tonight" as hes already got them caught when they pm, instead he hid that fact. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:22 chaoser wrote: If when citi.zen found out there were multiple claims for DT, he would have told town if he was townie. But he didn't. That's weird I concur. This would actually make his position much more likely to a townie move, instead he kept this to himself. Odd play for sure. We currently have two mouths spoken out saying they were in touch with citizen as well, where one doesn't trust his dt? Why wasn't that posted, why has information like this that is actually important been kept behind the scenes? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:25 bumatlarge wrote: Oh god dammit i cant keep up properly anymore Can someone clear this whole DT situation up before the lynch gets through? And BC callin out citizen on when he posts claiming he picks and chooses when is a dirty tactic, as if you claim you know his schedule and when hes not busy. Thats not the way to go about accusing someone. Dude? IF you make a claim like he did, it requires activity otherwise it appears scum. The few posts he has made since he returned have been FoS posts and berating people for being bad essentially. He has withheld information that would help clear himself as well. It is not unreasonable that if hes going to be inactive to make relatively decently sized posts actually talking about points raised. The fact your letting him off with "oh well you cant call someone out on life stuff" is like saying his point about when the counterclaim happened is null based on the same sort of argument. You can't excuse one for it but not another. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:31 BrownBear wrote: True, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to get MH to say who they put their bombs on is a very scummy move. It's not worth possibly messing up a fakeclaimer when it's far more likely that they're legit, they say who their bombs are on, and mafia hits them to take out 2 or 3 people in one go. Except if any of those bombs are on mafia, they lose up to two of their members as well. Tree hugger has already gone over this. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:36 youngminii wrote: What's so weird? It's not like he told town "Okay guys, one DT group contacted me so now we have two DT groups working together". Can't he pull together a bit more information before telling everyone everything? It would also look extremely suspicious if he tells everyone that two DT groups contacted him if he doesn't tell everyone the identities of the DT group reps (me and rastaban). Dude his head is on the chopping block. Information like that could have potentially saved him instantly. HE doesn't need to give up your names to town, just claim that he got multiple claims that can be investigated. Its less scummy to be honest with it when your in a position to die than holding it back. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:37 BrownBear wrote: It's roughly a 1 in 5 chance that this is true. Your math sucks. Except factor in his skill level and he will most likely have at least 1 red, if not two. Do you not weigh all the variables into your equations? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: how much time is left for Day? hopefully citizen can come back and clear some things up himself. I think an hour and 20 minutes if BM keeps things to his regular schedule, much later if not. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:41 citi.zen wrote: The confirmed dt knows of all the claims. I will not reveal their names publicly at this point - it would condemn the real one. It also has no bearing on what you guys need to do: lynch south so you get a 1pp% confirmed red. One way or another. If your here long enough to post a comment like that, please go back and talk about issues pointed at you, stop random picking. You got called out on a scum move, defend yourself, stop avoiding it. Saying "i passed all info onto my dt" isn't a defense when your suspected scum, as all it implies is you handed the info to your team. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:38 youngminii wrote: He didn't keep it to himself, he basically informed me and rastaban. Also, that's a good point. Another reason why he didn't tell everyone is in case there were others who would try to claim to represent a DT group. Thanks for helping citi.zen's case. Except your missing the point. You and rasta did nothing on said info till citizen looked suspicious. HIM not telling the town doesn't help his case. If he was red he would keep it up longer to get info out of the two of you, if he was town saying "have two claims, have a red' is all he would have needed. IT doesnt out anyone and if hes legit his dt can confirm. It doesn't help his case in the least. | ||
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Lynch all Liars | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:00 BrownBear wrote: Mafia constants: Chezinu cannot be trusted to say anything useful Ace and BM share a deep hatred of each other Flamewheel is adorable Abenson sucks at mafia Brownbear will fuck up if you ever give him the medic role (and Korynne will be sad) Tricode will try to kill BC every chance he gets You forgot Qatol is always blue, even if hes green Ver, magically appears to break games in two with his mighty ability Incognito, hes always incognito | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:19 Divinek wrote: wait did he publically doing this or are you just handing the mob a free dt? no that wasn't claimed in thread, so he is handing off a potential dt. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:39 Pandain wrote: You will not be reasoned with. I request other people to try and see the light. He just attempted to out a potential DT at night. IE during the period mafia could hit him. Asking him to see reason is I think far out of the picture now. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:42 youngminii wrote: We can still trust citi.zen that the Mystery Player exists, BECAUSE citi.zen flipped green. It's pretty much the same as citi.zen flipping MH except that now it's even better because MH is hidden. We KNOW that it's either South or Tricode that's lying. It's almost definite that South is lying and you're backing him up with a whole host of other scum. If South ends up flipping blue, oh damn well we've got Tricode. Also, I apologise for being a dick, I guess I'm just happy that mafia are cornered and I don't want anything to jeopardise the win. You don't want the mafia to win but then proceeded to toss potential dt under the bus (said player has claimed dt mouth). If said mouth is lynched and flips town, it auto means your gf. Good job on the spamming though, I especially love the colours. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:44 youngminii wrote: Really, I've yet to come across anyone giving a reasonable counter explanation. No, I do not count your "we were working with citi.zen, but for some reason citi.zen didn't say anything about it to anyone" theory as a reasonable explanation. I know I'm being loud because people DO need it drilled through their heads that this list will win the game. Lots of people are too easily swayed by mafia and they will do anything to shine a bad light on me etc. If pandains claim is legit, he would have a copy of pm's no? I am guessing as would citizen's people. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:47 youngminii wrote: I'm going to go ahead and agree with you here. In any case, @BC I had already warned Pandain that I would reveal him and he seemed to accept that just fine. He claims he was 'working' with citi.zen yet he goes ahead and convinces everyone to vote for him. His play (we've been PMing since day 1) has been sloppy and even if he was DT, it isn't necessary anymore to win. The issue being, hes claiming you were checked by DT and claiming dt mouth, your claiming hes mafia who fake claimed. IF hes town that would in turn almost guarentee your guilt. He is new however and his play may have been sloppy, but your not doing much better. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:51 Pandain wrote: Citizen knows I was. I kept it vague so he wouldn't find out who the DT was though. Also: Which PM's do you want. also I repeat: If we are going to get ANYTHING done, we are going to have to be calm, and patient. We have 24 hours people. Let's analyze the information. The ones you sent back and forth with citizen about YM would most likely be the ideal ones, as he would have sent those most likely into his own circle. | ||
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On July 26 2010 05:39 BrownBear wrote: Ughhhhh. I like the starting point of BC, and SR as people who DIDN'T vote for doublelynch, as well as people who are very suspicious to me - SouthRawrea fakeclaimed MH (and we know this for certain now, zeks was real MH, and mafia probably won't kill him for 2 reasons: If he dies and flips MH, SR is dead, also bombs on BC and SR. No way to know for sure until the morning though.) BC put waaaaay too much energy into defending SouthRawrea, focusing on lynching citi.zen (for shitty reasons I might add), and basically scumslipped - there's no way he would care as much as he did about us not lynching SR unless they were teammates. The amount he cared also leads me to suspect SouthRawrea might be a mafia power role, either GF (maybe posing as a mad hatter?) or SB (if we could take SB out by lynch I would be so happy). So what I'm thinking is: zeks maybe moves a bomb tonight off of one of the two (zeks chooses so mafia doesn't know for sure), we lynch that guy for sure, and then figure out a secondary target, while keeping the bomb on the other as a precaution? Welcoming thoughts/criticism/suggestions. My only amusement to this idea is that your assuming that zeks is legit. Citizen's plan actually only confirmed his circle had he flipped hatter and he didn't. That actually makes both zeks/southrawr/tricode as a set of people where any two could be legit. As tricode is the only one who claimed vig, he is most likely legit. Also, if you honestly think me arguing against citizen's plan/behaviour was a scumtell, go back and look over games I have been town. I argue against plans with holes, even moreso from someone who knows better. Having him move around his bombs around (provided hes the hatter) is a good idea however. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:12 chaoser wrote: He flipped green though so why would he lie about his circle? I'll take zek's word It means his circle isnt confirmed. Mafia or DT could have been like "sup i checked you your green" Then citizen personally chooses someone to pick, turns out so and so is also red and boom a plan is born to snag both dts. Or he could be a hatter. His plan went from confirm the dt, to take the word of a guy who lied about his role. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:14 zeks wrote: Would love to hear BC's master plan scum you can also try again to throw another one of your goons to counter claim my counter claim to south's counter claim to citi.zens claim I'd love to know why you think the death of a dead liar gives you any credibility. Your just lucky people miss the simple fact that citizens plan was pretty well null and void upon his death. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:16 zeks wrote: here's how my circle of 3 got formed dt checks citi.zen day 1 green decides to claim to citi.zen knowing he could be gf citi.zen + dt decide to check me i flip mad hatter citi.zen is mouthpiece that is all Except you can pm anyone saying "sup your green" A mafia can guess those odds rather easily, and if citizen calls em out its a simple matter of two people arguing over whos word is more legit. In your case you can say he was checked, or the like, but he lied about his role in a situation where him flipping makes your/dt role questionable rather than confirmed. Sorry dude. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:21 zeks wrote: lol except i'm hatter would you pm anyone saying "hey you're hatter" when tricode already claimed vig - can mafia really guess the odds of an MH? Everyone you have said is very well applicable to the other DT circle however and you already have the retarded issues with youngmini / pandain. The difference is they arent asking for roleclaims. Besides, you've claimed hatter (yet wanted med prot) and Dt all in the same night period, i'm impressed. | ||
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On July 26 2010 04:33 zeks wrote: great then i guess i wont check you now Hi im a dt, hit me i say hiiiit me. Youve also asked for med prot and claimed hatter, nice try though duder. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:21 zeks wrote: lol except i'm hatter would you pm anyone saying "hey you're hatter" when tricode already claimed vig - can mafia really guess the odds of an MH? Everyone you have said is very well applicable to the other DT circle however actually yes yo ucould guess the odds of hatter. 2 kp roles, 1 vig 1 hatter makes sense as otherwise you have more Night total kp than mafia unless suicide bomber hits a person being checked by multiple blues. Nice try though. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:24 zeks wrote: i am inviting the scum to hit me if BC and SR are both clear they'll definitely hit me today really? what faulty logic is that. Mafia would avoid you if you were legit hatter as bombs could be on innocents and your using the "mafia would auto hit me to kill them" when instead they could force town to waste a double lynch on you or your bomb targets. Your lack of thinking is beyond me. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:33 BrownBear wrote: Yeah, but how do they pick the MH out of a lineup of 19 town players? It drops to a 1/19 chance that they PM the right guy saying "sup you're MH". Your logic, again, is fundamentally flawed. Nice try, though Your also assuming the "check on a hatter" was a real check on a hatter. Seriously citizen could have chosen a red to be checked and gotten screwed. If they pointed at a green he coulda shot citizen and called it a day. and now im gone. | ||
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THE DT DIED. The day after someone requests dts claim, the same day some retard outs his dt (who was a mouth?) the same day that same "dt" claims some epic strategy to bag a GF. And no one is suspicious of them? For fucks sake, no wonder the town is losing. In this game day alone, the # of liars I have seen astound me. Combine with zeks claiming two roles (hi liar), combine south's obvious attempt to bus me as well as rastabans, I am amused. The level of fright I have managed to put on the mafia this game is absolutely astounding. I have no idea how to even begin today disecting the idiocy i've seen the last page, let alone the level of naiveness from a town. | ||
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On July 26 2010 14:34 Bill Murray wrote: no, i would not modkill during that time, and the day would technically be in twilight until people either voted for or against double lynch (in that scenario) Not really questioning alot but seriously dude, can you stop changing rules while game is underway? | ||
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On July 26 2010 13:25 Pandain wrote: Other guy told me cause we trusted each other. We were cautious of telling young, since he has/had been acting weird. We were afraid he might be GF faking as townie. So I came up with an idea. I would pretend to be dt, fake claim to youngmini. If i died during the night, Subversion could tell with good certainty that young was gf, and he could bust him. so, your expecting me to believe that someone who fake claim dt, and outed his checks, then claimed dt mouth and admitted to knowing who the dt was, are claiming that you aren't the reason he died? Sounds like your a total fuckup kid. | ||
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On July 26 2010 14:45 Divinek wrote: i agree some of it is funny, and alot of it has to be bullshit (i cant imagine you trying to rc two different people as two different roles??) however citizen is confirmed in his honesty, and he said he had another cleared person to speak for his dt, and only one person has stepped up to that role and no one has called bullshit on him so why would zeks be no good? (maybe his dt isnt a dt and he's a red working with zeks?) though i think i understand what you were getting at with the two roles thing he has claimed mh, but mentioned him 'checking' someone? and representing a dt that is a reasonable way of thinking, other than that yeah and to be fair it does look bad that you pushed so hard for him to die, but you werent really in danger yourself so...not that bad, and if rhasta was your team mate and was in that much danger it'd seem silly for you to stick your neck out so far to push the wagon the other way when you know he's gonna die next, most likely i am interested in your candidates better than yourself! I would lynch obvious liars. Pandain/south/rasta. As said in previous games, so on and so forth I said it the day before I stand by it. I have roleclaimed to no one this game, period. I would also ask you this Divinek. You pm'd me near the beginning of the last day and asked me about the missing hit, and wanted to know if I was med or Vet. If i was in the habit of fake claiming blues to multiple people, would it not be reasonable to assume I would have to you as well? For those who think I went after citizen too aggressively, please see this game by flamewheel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119497 I was miller that game and although ace was a legit DT, based on who his check flipped red, I argued tooth and nail against his plan. If I see something I feel very strongly against, I will fight it to the core of my being, its who I am. To the point that eventually emotions will cloud thought, but the basis in which I argue is always off a center piece of logic. See the others that were arguing more logically and less emotionally as I was this past day. The amount of claiming, counter claiming, fake claiming, random accusation throwing, etc... that has gone on this game, and be allowed is just flabergasting. Whats more frightening, is town is barely talking about those people, and instead pointing at one person who was analyzed as red, fake claimed, then proceeded to throw another player under the bus as well as someone who argued tooth and nail against a plan that had faults, against a player who lied to the town. Take that as you will. But you all need to look around you before jumping your vote gun. | ||
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On July 26 2010 14:51 SiNiquity wrote: Also BC, while you're here. Do you deny PMing Rasta and South? You probably only have minutes left at this rate. That I do. I could name you the players I have pm'd and they would most likely confirm that they have had some form of messages with me. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:08 SiNiquity wrote: Finally, something to go off of. Thanks. If you're by some miracle innocent then they'll make great lynch targets tomorrow with double-lynch. Your death, in either case, will not be in vain. See you on the flipside. ## Unvote SouthRawrea I hope town takes note on your stance of saving all liars. It shall prove enlightening for them. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:23 Pandain wrote: Just to clear it up, I did NOT lie to town. I lied only to Youngmini because we were going to let him into the circle but had to be sure he wasn't GF(since he had checked green.). I did NOT lie to the town or jeopardize it, until Youngmini reaveled it, probably with good intentions :/. It was ???,Subversion, and I's secret expirement. If I still lived, than youngmini wasn't GF and we would let him in our group. That's the extent of my lie, to youngmini for one day. The pms with Subversion I posted verify this. EXCEPT, you sent a fake dt mouth to citizen, then went to him yourself and claimed dt mouth. This is a entire wrench potentially tossed into citizen's plan (as shoddy as I think it is). As town that is such a bad call. Thats creating a situation to break someones entire plan/wasting checks etc... You knowingly made yourself a third dt/voice claimant. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:30 Pandain wrote: Hehe forgot. But again, we had a plan for this.(plans! Plans!). I didn't go to him myself. Youngmini did. So basically, I was going to get into contact with the other DT, and than relay the info to Subversion, probably telling him who the REAL dt was. Since Youngmini wanted to pm citizen, I couldn't just say no. So.... I told him to. Than citizen finds out. Now HE knows I'm the real dt rep. So I was basically going to replace youngmini in that regards. You're actually right though, if I had let youngmini tell citizen i was dt, it could've wasted checks. My mistake. I guess I had to think fast so I couldn't really make a thorough decision. Yay citizen for catching my word slip! yayyyy wait, you were openly trying to milk the dt name from citizen who you believed was legit (or at least legit enough to claim too), then after your called out for lying your dt dies? Dude what the hell. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:35 BrownBear wrote: Guys, why are you even bothering arguing with BC. He's mafia. He's just trying to cause as much ruckus as possible before he gets lynched and has to shut up. Just ignore him and the problem will resolve itself. In a very short, terminal fashion. I find it more amusing you think im dumb enough to multiclaim to people. I'm smart enough to know I'd be outted for something like that. But then again, with half the crap going on this game, the low level of thinking doesn't surprise me. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:41 BrownBear wrote: I know you deny that South was mouthpiece and that you are MH. I'm lynching you for trying so goddamn hard to get citi.zen lynched yesterday instead of South. You fuck with town, town fucks with you. If you really aren't red, I'm sorry, but your play has been too scummy for me, and I trust Pandain a hell of a lot more than I trust you. Thus, I'm voting for you, and if there's gonna be someone to change my mind it sure as hell isn't going to be you. Rofl. Dude I criticized a plan with holes. Hey look, tree.hugger, chaoser, and infundi did as well but your not going for them. Your also ignoring obvious liars. Hell. I would even except that after the full day if people want me offed, then sure. Instead we have people such as yourself saying everyone should ignore my ruckus, and instead just majority lynch me as fast as possible. If that isnt a scum move what is? Your moving to deny someone a chance to save their-self. Hell, so far my talking today has been so confusing. In fact so confusing that it makes sense? Why would you be trying to stop the flow of any form of discussion, rash lynches and no talking benefits mafia, not town. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:43 BrownBear wrote: 1) BC decided my roleclaiming plan was idiotic, despite the fact that it benefits town. 2) BC decided instead of going for South (who was 99% confirmed mafia) we should go for citi.zen. You see how that turned out. 3) BC hasn't really been sparking town discussion, he's been flaming people, calling every plan stupid, deriding every player as playing poorly, etc. This is very scummy, as he is intentionally trying to break down town unity rather than build it. 4) BC has been on the wrong side of every vote so far. You want more? I've got more. Your roleclaim plan was flamed by more than me, don't try to finger me on that. South was analyzed and pulled out by me? then I went for a person who turned out to be lying and whos plan lost tons of credibilty for it. Surprise, surprise, I was wrong about his alignment, but correct on his plan being riddled with issues. Sparking town discussion? I have been doing so since I got back from work, hell, i started the discussion on citizen's plan that till then everyone was like "YEA LETS AUTO TRUST 100%" and the guy was lying. As for wrong side of vote so far? Citizen flipped liar. Amberlight has not flipped period, nor has pandain, and look pandain has turned out to be a liar as well. Dude, if you want to analyze and finger me to death, care to well not blatantly lie? | ||
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Divinek, Tree.hugger, Infundibulum in that order. I will also note that they pm'd me first. Aside from those three I have actually not pm'd anyone at all this game. Even to respond to really annoying messages. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:54 BrownBear wrote: You need to calm down and stop lying. citi.zen did not flip liar, he flipped mouthpiece. HUGE difference. Mouthpiece does NOT equal liar. Mouthpiece is a legit strategy designed to protect blue roles. Stop calling it a lying strategy. My roleclaim plan was flamed by more than you, but you were the most vocal from my perspective. You also have personally attacked me many times, which I don't like. Stop doing that. And regarding citi.zen's plan? That was a legit plan he had with zeks. Both are confirmed town. Your "sparking town discussion" fucked that up. If that's not red play, I don't know what is. See, at this point, you'd really better hope you flip red. If you flip red, I'll accept all of your play as good mafia play. If you don't I really will just have no respect for you as a player anymore, because your town play this game has been absolutely atrocious. No, he blatently lied about being hatter. He refused to even address criticism to his plan, and tried his best to not have discussion. Him lying about his role means he flipped as a liar. His townie role means dick as it didn't instant prove SR was red, it means someone in his group had to be verified instead. Someone lying about role, refusing to talk about his plan in detail, refusing to answer criticism is actually the key features of someone playing anti town. If it was perfect he would have addressed these points. Also with a legit dt actually dead, and zeks still alive with a "claimed dt circle" of a liar, He's not confirmed. HE is likely legit, but not confirmed. I don't get where you find these random reasons to confirm people without real evidence to do so. I'm sorry you didn't see the problems with it, I am sorry that you believe that citizen was incapable of being lied to, I am sorry that you trust things in mafia so black and white when the game is shades of grey. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:58 ~OpZ~ wrote: Details of citizens plan became apparent on his death. Do you not understand that? Their were reasons he lied. But you're right. We should lynch zeks anyway JUST BECAUSE he has a bomb on you/south kill 4 people (lynch zeks/someone else, BC/South/someone else if bomb moves), 3 mafia or, 2 mafia and 1 possible mafia, and lose a hatter that's used both bombs.... IF town was so sure of my guilt, they would be lynching zeks to do a few things. Prove his alignment, prove mine, prove southrawrs. INSTEAD he has said On July 26 2010 11:18 zeks wrote: ##vote double lynch ##vote BloodyC0bbler ##vote SouthRawrea don't worry about me wasting bombs i had that covered long ago which means he has no bombs on me or SR. IE they could be anywhere. The soul means of proof he had to 100% clear his dt, clear himself, get info from me and SR is now moot. Effectively saving himself from having to prove his own identity. Do I think he is likely real based on SR/Rasta trying to off me? Yes, but he moved his bombs regardless, so him dying now becomes potentially harmful to the town depending on where those bombs went. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:59 BrownBear wrote: I am getting out of the thread now, because I'm worried I'm becoming too emotionally invested in it. I'm going to cool off for tonight, read it tomorrow, and make sure I'm voting for the right reasons, not the emotional/wrong ones. That's the best you're getting, BC. Whatever decision I make tomorrow, I'm making it because I believe it's the best decision for the town. So don't bitch about it when it happens. Thats all I'm asking for dude. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: ....You guys talk a lot...I was going to vote you BC, and I promised to long before this bandwagon began....And I've done it already once this game....But it's far to early for the day to end, so I would like some suspects and analysis. You can do some on me if you'd like, I'm pretty thoroughly scummy looking. But the point is, I would like something to analyze after you die. Remember sir, death brings knowledge and truth. So please, at least help us out with that. Uncooperative actions now will just further your scum appearance, and whats more important, you living, or the town winning. Besides, you might sway enough votes. Dude, its currently 12:12 am, and i work in the morning. Yes I can do analysis (hell I gave some the day before that got ignored and somehow turned against me). However, to get said analysis requires giving me time to actually make one. At the moment I seem to be playing the game of keeping votes off my body to end day. | ||
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On July 26 2010 16:11 Pandain wrote: I think (well) The reason I believe zeks is because he was foretold by Citizen. Since citizen is townie, than zeks is truly a mad hatter. Either that or GF and tricked Citizen/dt, but then we're screwed anyway so doesn't matter. or dt + zeks is red. I am saying it is highly unlikely. The problem reamains he isnt confirmed, hell he even moved his bombs away from people town agreed on as red, to move them on questionable targets. In a sense hes pushing a stance of lynch others to prove me. There is sketchyness to his play, but since I know southrawr is lying, I actually moderately trust him now. He hasn't been confirmed based on citizen, but by terrible scum play by south. | ||
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On July 28 2010 10:19 Divinek wrote: his lack of posting since being for sure lynched makes me think red eeeeeeeeeeeee but we shall see Actually I read the thread yesterday morning saw I had hit majority along with SR and assumed day had finished when I got home from work last night. I love how rules change so instantly without warning ffs. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:13 Divinek wrote: also i apologize SINCE we were right in calling people fucking idiots or something for majority lynching bc/sub so fast, but i still think it was silly and we might have milked something out of sub atleast but i guess if we let them live too long bc might have convinced us to vote away from him sooo yeah happy days lalala haha, dude, you actually gained alot. BM said majority lynch, I hit majority like 36 hours before post went up. Soon as I saw i hit majority I stopped checking here. Rule revisions/ignorings rock from hosts. Regardless, GG also thanks for not being retarded over this last day. Once game is over, I will have a semi large writeup to share with you all weeee. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:19 BrownBear wrote: GG man, sorry for kinda losing my temper at you last night haha dude its cool. I'm impressed I managed to stall you. I think with a bit of work I could have changed your mind but hey, I should have realized BM would rule change on me. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:39 BrownBear wrote: BC is damn good at this game. He almost had me convinced yesterday. Shit, for real? rofl. I did way better than I was thinking I had. SOOOO thought I had only stalled you. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:52 BrownBear wrote: Haha yeah, I was on the verge of at least changing my vote off of you to tree.hugger or someone else, but in the end just decided "fuck it, stay the course". Kinda glad I did, no offense None taken, the fact you actually thought about it was a nice thing for me though, finally felt like people weren't just being sheep. | ||
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On July 28 2010 15:22 ~OpZ~ wrote: BC, you had a VERY slim chance of changing my vote...But as I've said, I regularly distrust you. And your instajump on citizen is what hugely pinned my suspicion at you. Was an epic bus of citizen you pulled off tho. GG for you sir. I woulda done it as town as well. As I said, his play was horrendous there, the fact that only a minority of players saw it makes me sad. | ||
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On July 28 2010 15:33 ~OpZ~ wrote: It also led to one of the biggest breakthroughs in the game. And if he wasn't lynched, he had the names of both people that woulda been a fake dt, and a fake MH. Citizen personally picked the DT's night 2 check too. So....I dunno good sir if it was horrendous play. I think it was pretty baller. Once game is done I shall go into more detail on what he did and the problems behind it, but I don't really want to derail the game (as its still in motion). | ||
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Zeks, you still in waterloo? | ||
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On July 29 2010 07:22 zeks wrote: BC: yeah i'm in waterloo on co-op right now...business analyst for the coop center i lined up at the future shop @ conestoga for 3 hrs to get my collectors edition holy fuck yo lol. You going to still be there in september? Also, I just was at ebgames here in victoria, and the entire wall/display case was filled with unbought sc2 copies rofl. | ||
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On July 30 2010 12:19 citi.zen wrote: Lol - I sincerely congratulated panda for playing a good red game. Turns out he was town - I take it all back. =( i miss panda, he was fun to read. | ||
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On August 05 2010 05:48 d3_crescentia wrote: don't have any thoughts on this situation, really - like honestly who cares anymore? 4 of us are town; 2 of us are confirmed, 3 of us are scum that's pretty good odds to me - we just have to figure out which two aren't scum out of 5 based on what looks reasonable to have I think we'd have Pyrr Misder and Brownbear all red for a team of BC/Pyrr/Brownbear/Xelin/Misder/SouthRawrea based on some mysterious instinct ##vote: BrownBear Just so you don't try to vote change ;p | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:14 Pandain wrote: Haha it would be hilarious if there was actually an additional person and BM accidently mistyped. Would make my day :D Also: so it was BC, SR, Xelin, Proct, Rastaban, and pyrr? Sup yo? you like my team now =) | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:16 Pandain wrote: Pretty sexy. Did proct(/mafia) plan this all out with framing me for subversions death. Added bonus really. Subversion handed off pms of doubts about you, + you went all rogue too much leaving it pretty well an easy out. You then being miller made it well, glorious. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:18 Pandain wrote: That's an amazing plan, not killing dt so you can get extra kill. I have to say I never really suspected you. Alot of what we were doing was planning for later on in the game. Leaving the DT alive, my posts on "innocents" (mafia almsot always shove one of their own there), the triple play against citizens plan (me/rasta/south) etc.... We seriously had to play like this or lose. Setup was insanely town favoured. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:19 BrownBear wrote: Lynch me and town loses. Plain and simple. You and Divinek are confirmed, I know my role, that leaves Misder/Pyrr/Protact/rastaban. The problem is, we have to be right all 3 times in a row. I think rasta is definitely red, I think Misder is possibly red, and I don't know about Pyrr/Protact. We shall see. But don't lynch me. You have, at best, random circumstantial evidence and "he's been playing like crap this game" evidence. That does not equal scum. Rastaban, by comparison, has some decently solid evidence, Misder has been lurking all game, and... well, I still don't know about Pyrr/Protact, lol. Your behind, game is over. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:20 rastaban wrote: BC's blue sniping skills really kept us in the game. He called so many on the first or second day. :p it helped before dying I was able to figure out 3 of the remaining roles out of 4 players, and then they all died in one night. Kudo's guys for following through with people I spotted. I may have messed up at first (hitting a med protected vet day 1 whoops) but overall I think we did good on our night hits. Protact amazing job with subversion! | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:23 Protactinium wrote: We're still not sure if d3_crescentia is the second Veteran, but both BloodyC0bbler and I read it on the first day. Wanting to see roles/actions list now. Yea, and you pinned roffles down somehow. Excellent job with that. Also, div thanks for claiming and giving me someone to avoid hitting ! | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:24 Pandain wrote: Agreed. I want proctat to have my babies and then go to subversion and claim they are his. Didn't rastaban and south both claiming they got pms from you mean you were sure to be lynched though? Also, that was amazing acting there looked legit. I have to say, I think the Xelin attack really saved the mafia. Basically rasta knew he was busted. I figured if I argued it no matter which two of us flipped, the remaining one would be "town" for at least a few days and avoid being offed. Rasta survived due to this as people were like "would bc really do that" etc.... Turning a bad situation into gold wooo | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:28 BrownBear wrote: Also, let it be known that THIS is why you do not do magic majority lynch the instant majority is reached. I told him majority lynch was a bad idea when he first instituted it. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:32 Protactinium wrote: I believe that was more Divinek just claiming Veteran to BloodyC0bbler... that it was | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:39 Pandain wrote: Honestly I feel I would've been safe if 1) Youngmini didn't immediately spurt out I false claimed 2) I wasn't miller or subversion didn't suspect you or you auto claimed to young then citizen, etc... Alot of what you did made it easier to put doubt on you. They were honest mistakes but ones exploitable. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:47 zeks wrote: Arg I had a good feeling I was going to die but I didn't mind dying to the bomber really but to have siniquity and lakris die on the same day was definitely out of my calculations for the record I never called for a XeliN protect I was actually thinking that siniquity wouldn't protect anyone at all well played at the end. no one took notice of the lurkers, and then when all the blues died the lurkers came out and won the game I am pretty sure siniquity was protecting you by the way. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Yea we really effed up the role claiming stuff but it was sorta necessary given the setup. i dunno, i got citizen offed, then his entire circle died very quickly thereafter. Delaying the town from mass roleclaiming to a confirmed circle was something we were trying to prevent, I say it went well. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:12 BrownBear wrote: So wish I could have been mafia this game. Not trying to pretend I played particularly well (I didn't), but god, some of the things town did were so freakin' dumb. I still <3 you all though. Haha, you were fun to argue with since for whatever reason you always wanted my nuts to burn in a fire. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:04 Ace wrote: lol D3 this is going to haunt you. Guess I better start updating my Winning as Scum guide. Also listen to what flamewheel said about going back to read posts: Also major props to BC on that situation with citizen. Town or scum it was definitely a pro town move to bust citizen out for lying about a role claim for multiple reasons, the most important being that no one could ever confirm him without confirming who ever he was allegedly fronting for. By the time that all got cleared up town was screwed unless somebody really sat down and thought about how the hell could rastaban be town with his fake roleclaim too ^_^. Much obliged. As i told everyone in thread I would do it regardless of role. Thankfully infundi, chaoser and tree.hugger also saw issues and helped me win the day. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:17 Pandain wrote: No credit for me? I withstood being blackmailed by youngmini and voted for citizen. Albeit maybe I should've given it -.- Honestly youngminii was under suspicion by you and subversion for being the gf. Following your own guts was prob the smart move there. It was actually beneficial to town to off citizen there as it gave more information, confirmed he had been lying, etc... | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:25 BrownBear wrote: Exactly, I thought young was GF for a good long time. I thought BC was regular mafia, and South was maybe suicide bomber given how much he got defended. Got 2 of 3 alignments right, 0 of 3 roles. Ahh well. I was on so many peoples red lists, sucked hard, more surprising I wasn't killed sooner. I didn't even want the gf position either, I wanted regular goon and to give gf to pyrr, but everyone thought I should have it early on so i just took it. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:40 BrownBear wrote: Let's just discuss the game and not start a dramabomb, guys. So my gut instinct for who was originally mafia: BC (after day 2) chaoser (wrong) Pyrrholuxia (didnt have much to go on other than weird voting patterns and sketchy behavior, but apparently that was enough lol) tree.hugger (wrong) SouthRawrea (right) rastaban (after the fakeclaim, but this was the one where I was like "well, maaaaaybe...") Well... I had 4 of 6 down no trouble. The issues I have with my play were: 1) Failed Day 1. Like, seriously failed Day 1. Forgot the game was even going on, rushed in and voted to escape modkill, and... yeah, you see what happened. It put me in a position where I was forced to work while many people did not trust me/people were actively suspecting me. 2) Gave up on the roleclaim idea way too quickly. After BC shouted it down, I knew BC likely scum, but did not then follow up with my second idea (instead of vetclaim, mass townclaim). I thought that town opinion was too against me and BC was too loud for it to stand a chance of succeeding. Looking back, if we had mass roleclaimed day 2, mafia wouldn't have stood a chance in hell. We would have lost blues, yeah, but mafia would have been screwed. When you know exactly how many of each role is in a game, roleclaims are uberpowerful, and we never utilized this weapon until it was too late and it was just green vs. red. 3) Didn't communicate my suspicions clearly enough in the thread. I had this great list I was running, but I never posted it, and I never said "well, what about this?" The reasons are twofold: one, I am working 16 hours a day and don't really have the time to devote to mafia fully, and two, I was still scared of getting lynched. Even after I was (mostly) cleared by BC flipping red and Pandain not flipping red, I was still too timid. Gotta take more risks. Well, that's how BrownBear failed. Now did BrownBear succeed at all? 1) Nailed 4 of 6 mafia just by reading the thread. That's gotta count for something, even if I didn't get these findings out to town fast enough/at all 2) Called Pandain being miller. I tend to play by gut instinct versus statistical probability. The reason is, mafia is very much not black and white. Divinek might think it is, but he's wrong Mafia is shades of grey, and if a very pro-town player I've had a PM relationship with since Day 2 might be miller, I'm more inclined to think he's miller over he's scum. The reason I do this is because my gut instincts tend to be correct. Not always, but they tend to be. Check it out: Pandain flipped Miller. Pyrrhuloxia ended up being scum in the end. BC was scum. chaoser wasn't, okay, but my gut instincts were mostly correct. If you don't like the way I play, deal. I trust my brain way more than I trust some numbers on a piece of paper. So in closing, Brownbear's game was a lot of fail with a side dish of mild success. I also survived almost to the end as well, so that's something! I will post in a couple hours with thoughts on the rest of the game (other players, the setup), and the Bearies. You really should have pushed a massroleclaim idea. My attacking of your plan (it wasnt super solid) but was to avoid a mass roleclaim in the end. I was so afraid of that since it would auto grape the mafia. Also, you reallllly have to argue with me. See games were L/Ace, Me/Ace, Me/L, Ver/anyone, etc..... where arguing happens. It gives huge info on the players, as well as helps flesh out potential good plans to make them realllly good. The issue was town got too distracted by random antics of like YM or the like. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:40 Pandain wrote: Also add to this that I always defended the "lurkers" because they had said they had "real life problems" and i always believed them T_T Most people do have real life problems, the issue is, its not a valid defense. Just because I work stupid amounts of hours doesn't mean im not red. It just means I won't be as active and am expected to perform with less time. its rough | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:48 BrownBear wrote: nah, my plan was eh, but it was really to lead into a mass-roleclaim idea. You successfully scared me into not going for it, though, so good on you And yeah, the argument was what sold it to me that you were mafia. Nobody noticed cause everyone thought I was scummy though. That, and young played horribly :/ To be honest your plan had holes in it that i exploited (not the only one who saw them) but had you transitioned into the mass roleclaim, id either have to fight it (and insta show my role) or let it slide getting owned. Just learning to fight back against big vocal players is a skill that once learned is insanely useful. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:49 Bill Murray wrote: I agree on liking the way you played as town, BrownBear, not because it was extraordinarily good, but because people on TeamLiquid are bad at pressuring mafia as town. That made this "rigged setup" actually fair, because people on TL are just a LOT better as mafia than town I was such an obvious red though -_- Im actually not that good of a red, i saw way to many slipups of my own early days and didnt appear "town" till later on. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:55 flamewheel wrote: Hahaha Foolishness had you day one. When you guys killed him, nobody even batted an eye. I felt kind of sad though because this game was run for Foolishness. Stay alive in XXX buddy o/ Also let's BW more okay? IT WAS UNBALANCED BECAUSE OF FOOLISHNESS HE HAD TO DIE! fucking jerk making my life harder har har | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:57 Bill Murray wrote: yeah, i was like LOL at the medics all game... especially when roffles saved bc hahahaha roffles saving me was prob the best method ever. Tricode messages me on aim going "God damnit, are you vet? cause I shot you last night" Or something along those lines. We had such a good laugh as a mafia team when i got saved. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:59 Pandain wrote: is that why you killed him? Haha I thought that would've been too miniscule a reason and mafia just wanted to hit a potential blue. It was so much better for mafia when misder accidently left out the Foolishness post accusing BC lol. That was one of many reasons. But yea, he just had to die. He is outspoken and would have gotten me owned -_- had to off him early while he couldn't lay insane suspicion on me. | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:07 citi.zen wrote: There was no lie. There was a strategic switching of two confirmed players. Nobody else was supposed to know but zeks and kris, co-planners from the start. The subsequent vote proved we were correct to make the switch. And no, what bc did was not pro town, not even remotely so. At worst the plan was supposed to cost me the lynching but reveal a mafia who would need to counter-claim. This public roleclaim "confirmation" is how 90% of games with pms end up. This is why this was a town favored set-up. If you think it's wrong for a person in that position to rc... I am puzzled. dude, you lied straight up :p Your plan had holes. Just because you knew the two people in your circle was legit didnt mean the town knew. You were also blanket asking for trust in a game where deception is key. Had you actually been the hatter, your plan still would have worked with your death (however your bombs most likely would have offed innocents). As it was, it had problems that allowed the mafia to exploit them long enough to off your circle. | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:15 Ace wrote: Well from my P.O.V. this is how I viewed everything. There is no way you could have been a Mad Hatter for a couple of reasons: 1.) So early in the game very slim chance you'd have both bombs placed on scum correctly. 2.) With that in mind you'd never roleclaim if you were legit - you want to DIE if your bombs are placed correctly by an accidental mafia hit or a town lynch. 3.) With both these in mind it makes no sense for you to roleclaim to the town and if you do you'd be better off asking for everyone to vote for you so you get lynched and flat out ignore whatever BC is saying. In short you weren't even acting like anyone who was a mad hatter with 2 bombs on scum would. If your bombs aren't on scum then they are on townies or just not placed at all which means Scum have every incentive to shoot you. Which means you definitely don't want to roleclaim. Looking at it in both ways like this I figured you had to be lying. But that wasn't the only problem. If you were in contact with Detectives then how is it possible that you not only verified them to be legit but also got them to verify that your bombs were placed on actual mafia? In a span of 3 game days that would be a major leap of perfect execution. From the town perspective you are now the mouth of some unconfirmed DTs in the background that only a few people know about, but can't be revealed until shit hits the fan. So if I am a townie why in the world would I trust you when I just realized you lied for what I would have figured was a small gain? You are the mouth of a hatter or detectives and even if that was true why do I care as town - you haven't given me a guilty result on anyone. that sums things up better than I think I would have said it, much thanks. | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:22 Bill Murray wrote: Final thoughts as a mod, and not as a player: If I ever run a large normal like this again, I will make sure that I edit the randomized list and switch good townies like foolishness and amber or opz (from this game) with like a SiNiquity nah. Siniquity was one of two "newbs" with blue roles for town. Giving medic to a complete newbie isnt a bad thing, as to be fair, he made a save day 1. | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:23 Pandain wrote: Said this before to other people but I want all of humanity to share in this amazing quote. That last option.... I was laughing for like 5 minutes straight. There is a better post let me find it. | ||
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On July 24 2010 05:46 chaoser wrote: Here's the diagram I drew up of all possible ways everything could be: Keep note of the bottom left box + caption beside it. I laughed so hard at this picture you have no idea | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:38 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: aw man me too that was classic (think I linked it to you in MSN, BC?) Possibly it was pretty hilarious. | ||
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On August 05 2010 14:21 DarthThienAn wrote: I can't believe no one listened to me and took out Pyrr. pyrr is really good at not dying when he should. | ||
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On August 05 2010 13:25 BrownBear wrote: Yeah, because TL townplay is weak. There's a way to play Hatter correctly, and it does not involve placing a bomb every night. Chez = epic hatter. | ||
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On August 05 2010 14:30 Ace wrote: I'm not a fan of easily confirmed roles either, just that if there was a better way for Hatters to confirm themselves at all besides death I'd probably like them more. Could be too broken though :'( that it would be =( Traitor is the single best role in mafia though, hehe | ||
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On August 05 2010 14:34 bumatlarge wrote: Heh, not too suprised, but really nice play by mafia. I dont have any regrets, I trusted citizen and zeks and really pushed for BC and south. Had no idae about anyone else though. Wish they would have kept me alive And was rasta the one that "analyzed" and said i was 88% town? what a bastard lol You died for being on citizens balls too much. When his plan was first formed you, lakris and zeks were onboard with it way to fast and seemed like you were working together with citizen. After we lynched citizen (just before zeks claimed) I listed out you, zeks, lakris and siniquity as the most logical candidates for citizens circle, which meant at least two of the four were blue (turned out 3 were huzzah). We double stacked subversion just in case as we knew he was dt 100% then following night the mafia acted on my last will and testament basically and it payed off netting the last 3 blues that we didnt know 100%, and got a few townies in the bag. From there they just played the fanning the flames game till lylo happened and here we are. | ||
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On August 05 2010 16:12 Misder wrote: I did Too bad I'm not good at this game tho... comes with practice. I would really advise if you want to learn to A) read the few stickies we have and replies in said threads B) choose a respected player, and go through games when they first started, then to the middle of their "player career" then move to the most recent ones. See how they grew and what they did C) still confused, ask them questions. Most of us I think would be willing to offer insight on how to play if you have specific questions. D) after all is said and done, develop a style of your own that best fits your skillset. | ||
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Bus driver is only fun if your sole role is to just create chaos. | ||
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On August 05 2010 16:21 Incognito wrote: Nop I had fun too and my goal wasn't to create chaos. The only thing that would've been more fun is if mafia had actually tried to double stack you on the last night there and tree.hugger died instead. I would have laughed pretty hard. I think the overall read you and I had of red players that game was fairly solid =) | ||
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On August 06 2010 05:08 ~OpZ~ wrote: All I have to say is, Thank you D3 for not PMing me back. Argh...YOU SEE ME DIE!? So cruel and unusual. *sigh*...And I told you pyrr living was already an issue. Fail argument. And Rastban....argh....I really thought he could be town (notice in all my posts I had a question mark next to his name because I never trusted him) because BC mindfucking someone through PMs seems...very plausible. -_________- I hate you all. Argh Thank you BM...I always appreciate you modding. Just please man. Stick to the rules you start with. I'd Co-Mod for you next time if you need it... I am glad to have given you insight into the inner workings of my insanely messed up mind. | ||
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On August 06 2010 15:59 BrownBear wrote: THE BEARIES! The Bearies brought to you by Pandain, Dr. Pepper, Late Thursday nights, and Insomniacs, International. BELKAR BITTERLEAF BEARIE: For the most chaotic player Goes to BloodyC0bbler! He caused untold amounts of chaos in the town. Once he got rid of Foolishness, Roffles, and the other big-name players, he was free to romp. And romp he did. He almost talked himself out of a situation where he got lynched (and he could have, if not for majority lynch + hardheaded players like me, lol). He got citi.zen lynched in an unfavorable situation to him. He managed to protect rastaban. He did everything a GF should do, and did it right. Well done, sir! 4CHAN BEARIE: For new meme: “It's iNfuNdiBuLuM.” That's all for now folks! Sorry they're abbreviated this game, but I am tired. Belkar is perhaps the coolest character on order of the stick. I proudly accept that bearie. Glad you enjoyed the chaotic show. | ||
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On August 07 2010 08:41 rastaban wrote: I am so jealous, my new goal in life will be to get a sexy shoeless god of war bearie as well! I need a kolbold hat now | ||
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On August 09 2010 02:40 lakrismamma wrote: I think that the plan was outr best opinion at the moment. It was not optimal but the town was going in circles and at least this generated information. I realize that I should have stayed more clear of citi.zen in order to be more undercover DT. This is my first game as that role and I made my mistakes. It would also have helped if he played more activly that day. Still the plan gor the GF and another mafia killed and plenty of suspicious posts. The town should have been able to sort out who was mafia. It was hard though with town people playing very distubingly and spamming. The mafia got EXTREMELY lucky on the night after that I still believe that the town could have taken this. The only luck involved was taking the med with you guys. You got read as part of citizens circle, no luck involved. When 3 people are flagged almost instantly for this the second dt (you) were good as dead the moment we put hits there. Xelin's suicide getting the hatter + netting the last med was the luck. You, zeks and by association of loving citizens plan bumatlarge were hit based on a read. You can say "you got lucky" but realistically the town played horrifically in a town favoured setup. Citizen's plan did "net" me, however, I would have argued against that plan as town. The days I was most scummy were day 1 and 2, and well very obviously so. First real time I've had the role so I expected to be bad at it. However, for those who have said we got lucky or our blue sniping sucked etc.... keep in mind that a blue died or was hit every night. d3, roffles, subversion, zeks/siniquity/lakris, two confirmed greens (so not blue but blue checked) and then tricode. Siniquity had already been read as a potential blue and with div's claim we had him on medic. The luckiest thing that happened all game for my side was tricode's shot being blocked. Also, for those saying you had caught alot of the reds before dying etc... cut it out, if you had read us as well as you have said we would have lost, not won. | ||
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