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On July 29 2010 15:16 Protactinium wrote:My own posts:+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 07:15 Protactinium wrote:
Hello all. I have PMed the moderator asking to replace somebody. Though he has acquiesced and granted the replacement (for the player Ketomai) he has yet to acknowledge this in the thread. Please grant me a while to read through the thread, though for now I will
##Vote: Abstain
as a placeholder. On July 19 2010 08:40 Protactinium wrote:
Forgive me, all. I have gotten about halfway through the thread, though I'm being dragged out now by a friend to go watch Inception. My vote will remain upon abstain, as I will not be back until about 3 hours after deadline. On July 20 2010 04:50 Protactinium wrote:I kind of want to draw focus to the "Abstain" list. I haven't seen or read too many Mafia games with the "Abstain" voting option; normally I just see people voting for themselves but that is not allowed in this game. Regardless, the six people on this list are all fairly inactive or haven't been contributing much, myself included. Though tree.hugger has brought up that Mafia will spread their votes amongst other people, I do think he's right in assuming that at least one Mafia member is abstaining, since it's the easiest way out. When I went back and searched for the relevant posts people had made, I found that most of the above-mentioned do not have really any substantial or substantiating posts. Luckily, chaoser has saved me some time by notating the abstain votes here. Interestingly, or not-really-so-, enough, abstainers have a pretty low level of useful activity. Let's start with Laxercannon. He doesn't really seem to make an effort in the game, and only has one post in which he types more than a line of text. He abstains but then doesn't make any effort to change it over the course of the next four or so hours. Also, his lack of attentiveness can be seen in his latest comment, stating that he wasn't following the thread enough. From reading a few past games he's been in, he seems to normally be more active. It's really too early, in my opinion, to draw some sort of conclusive read but I think it can be conclusively said that from the evidence given so far, Laxercannon is not playing very pro-town. I've never seen tricode play a game before, but I think he's one of the older players, judging by his posting attitude. Out of the people on the abstain list, he seems to be the only one who isn't just posting spam (besides myself, since I only have two posts... though even those two don't add anything!). He votes for an abstain because he has to see his dad off, and then says that lynches have to be used, since saying "what if" loses the game. This is a good idea. tricode reads pretty town in my eyes. chaoser doesn't really seem to be saying too much, looking through his posts, though he did compile the voting list afterward for the final few hours of the first day. He reiterates some old points beforehand, but I do like the list afterward. Will have to beware of 'paraphrased wording,' of course. chaoser seems to be playing pro-town, but he doesn't do the analysis himself, saying that "others can make use of [this information] however they want." Undecided. Southrawrea has almost nothing of value posted, and he seems like a new player, in part because of the editing. He wants to 'take it easy' day 1 since there's nothing to go off of, but isn't it beneficial to the Mafia to have the town discuss nothing? Once again I can't say anything conclusively (even to myself) at this point, but Southrawrea isn't playing very pro-town. Me... I don't feel like I should speak about myself. I just replaced in this game yesterday, caught up at the end of last night, and am making an attempt to PM and post now. I don't want to be an inactive bum, since that just benefits the Mafia. The less inactives there are, the fewer hiding spots the Mafia will have. And finally, zeks. Votes for Hyperbola as a placeholder (why not abstain?) but then removes his vote after the rest of the votes for Hyperbola, disregarding Subversion's, have been cast. Doesn't really say anything of value, at most just reiterates some known things. Not very pro-town. Will attempt to comment on other people later as I go along. On July 20 2010 15:11 Protactinium wrote:
Interesting... we effectively just bought ourselves another day.
Ah, my pre-emptive refreshing before posting has shown me that BrownBear has elucidated the first part of my post above. Being too lazy to delete, I am going to post it anyway.
There are a few scenarios that come to mind though, and plausible or not I feel compelled to list them out:
1) d3_crescentia is a non-Veteran role and was saved by a Medic. In the games that I have read and played before, Medic saves, especially so early, are pretty unlikely.
2) d3_crescentia is a Veteran and took the hit. Probably the most plausible situation.
3) d3_crescentia is Mafia, claiming to have taken a hit while the Mafia doublestacked Foolishness in order to kill him. I don't think this is the case, but it could be a highly effective ploy if used correctly...
BrownBear: your post assumes that there are two Veterans? We do not know that there are that. If there is only one other Veteran and d3_crescentia claims that the logic goes to nil.
After Foolishness died, my immediate thoughts (of course) went to DarthThienAn. Before Foolishness' death, the two of them had an argument. Then Foolishness died. This alone makes me less suspicious of DarthThienAn, given his post-death trolling. Will go back to read Foolishness' posts though. From my readings he is generally pretty insightful. I remember him calling one person out but I'm too lazy to find it at this point since I want to get this post out.
Wondering about youngminii. After defending himself, he has gone silent. Also, let's not forget Subversion, with his "Mafia have not made many mistakes so far" and the suspicious vote. On July 20 2010 15:18 Protactinium wrote:
Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Should have read OP. On July 20 2010 15:40 Protactinium wrote:
Wow, damn not realizing it was a fully revealed setup just wasted my night's thinking.
Regardless, this kind of setup is very favorable to the town...
Ugh, back to thinking. Screw my inattentiveness. On July 20 2010 15:44 Protactinium wrote:Probably not today, unless we can find two clearly delineated targets. Ah, scrolling backward. With the whole Vet idea, let's not forget this: Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 13:44 Subversion wrote:Hey man, congratulations, that's really exciting news  Wish you all the best On point, I was also in agreement about the weirdness of Foolishness's post, but now he's dead. Seems at the moment, mafia aren't making too many mistakes.Not sure about the block of votes for Hyperbola, seems if it was a scum-instigated thing they could have easily spread it out more? Might have just been a bunch of townies jumping on the bandwagon. Although, I would guess there's a good chance there's one or two mafia in there, who saw an opportunity to jump on a townie vote. And don't forget he made the winning (or losing...) vote. On July 21 2010 08:15 Protactinium wrote:Protactinium’s thought processes and actions of last night: 1) Spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about the night deaths 2) Ponder how to use options delineated to work around the semi-open setup. 3) Realize that the setup is, in actuality, fully open. 4) Curse self. 5) Begin to scroll backward through thread. 6) Fall asleep. 7) Wake up thanks to overly-shrill alarm clock. 8) Get halfway through Proleague, fall asleep again. 9) Wake up late in the afternoon. 10) Check Mafia thread. Four new pages, and they’ve been pretty good. Time to go through and comment on stuff. Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 22:55 chaoser wrote:
Sorry if this is a little off topic since we're not really talking about double lynches yet but if we vote double lynch today, it get activated next day cycle right? So why wouldn't we vote for it today? It's probable we'll have a wealth of information by the next day. Yes, you vote the day prior to activate the double lynch for the next day. Since it’s been brought up, just to further expound upon the double lynch debate: it may be okay to use Day 3, meaning we’d have to vote for it now. Given the nature of this game, a lot of confirmation can be found at night—any medic save will result in a confirmed townie, and disregarding the 1/soon-to-be-27th chance of hitting the Godfather with a check, Detective checks will come back with a confirmation as well. However, at this point it’s still much easier to strike green (or blue) with checks, meaning that there’d still be no definite, not to even think of having two locked choices, for a Day 3 double lynch. As the game goes on, the town gets exponentially stronger information-wise through confirmations and PMs, and we only have two double lynches. However, since it seems like there is a lot of finger pointing. Best to save the double lynches, in my opinion, for when the town is more united. This might have been discussed to death already, but I do not agree with BrownBear’s Veteran roleclaiming plan. As Amber[LighT] has said, a Veteran has one vote regardless of how long he/she remains alive. In reality, until a Veteran is “confirmed” either through taking a hit or being the target of a Detective check, he/she is nothing more than a Townie. BrownBear has said that Mafia would not dare claim Veteran since when the third claim surfaces one red is guaranteed to go down (unless it’s the Godfather) but I agree with Amber when he/she (guy, right?) says that the Veterans would then just serve as a shining beacon of “hey, don’t waste your KP on me.” Even if two people claim Veteran, Detectives would still want to check them to make sure—what if one of our Veterans is an inactive player and hasn’t read the thread? Since pretty much any Detective check will confirm somebody, essentially wastes a check where Detectives could be trying to find reds, since once again a lot of fingers are being pointed right now. Mafia don’t have to hit the Veteran—they simply just have to use the Bomber on one, in hopes that a Detective will try to confirm. This has been talked about below, so I don’t think I’m going to talk about it more. iNfunDiBuLuM has also said this too. Whoops, how did I miss his post. In short, I do not agree with a Veteran claiming plan. BloodyC0bbler’s plan is nice, and he really does highlight how advantageous the town has it this game. Also, it serves to show how much more of an advantage we have as compared to a regular game the longer we wait. As for the last two pages, I’ll over them separately. It seems right now that there’s just a lot of flak being thrown around randomly. If I check the pages, I see DarthThienAn, citi.zen, Subversion, Chaoser, and BrownBear seem to be accused. We’ve still got more than a day left, so I’m going to take my time and do some reading. I guess I’ll compile my thoughts on these people by looking at posts. Dinner (first meal of the day!) now. On July 21 2010 08:36 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 08:26 Amber[LighT] wrote:guy. name changes aren't allowed for old dogs  Okay, I just wanted to make sure as to not potentially offend somebody! On July 21 2010 08:56 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 08:41 Pandain wrote:
On Subversion and BrownBear, I feel that Subversion is being voted on unfairly. Subversions one line "Oh the mafia aren't making too many mistakes" does not seem AT ALL to be indicative that he's the mafia. As Citizen has stated above me, it sounds reasonable coming from a new player such as him. I myself am still confused as to HOW this makes him mafia. Especially more so than brownbear.
... I personally do not have firm conviction that Subversion is Mafia, as there still isn't much to work off of. However, the post that I brought up with the line in question was brought to my attention through PM land, and while it is something a new player would say, Freudian slips are still part of Mafia. I think though that more people are suspicious of Subversion because of the way the voting turned out. It doesn't make him Mafia, as other people were bandwagoning on Hyperbola as well, though it does make him suspicious. On July 21 2010 09:17 Protactinium wrote:
Okay, I can understand that Subversion. I guess you and BrownBear were both just pressure-voting, and those kinds of things do happen. Still though, you have to understand why it's suspicious to be like that.
As for the role claim, ambivalence. Generally either mass roleclaims work or nobody role claims. One or two people doing so is bound to lead to sniping in the future, and it takes confirmation first.
And Infundibulum's list is interesting. I'd forgotten about the inactives. Definitely going to pressure them to post, though I wouldn't mind seeing some modkills at this point to give us more information. On July 22 2010 02:26 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow. I can live with this. From my standpoint, I still don't believe there is enough conviction to risk wasting one of our weapons, though I will most likely be voting for a double lynch for Day 4 (voting during the next day). Show nested quote +Re: DTA -
I should thank pyrr for doing a really thorough analysis here. I do think it's possible the mafia took that gambit of not killing DTA to make him appear more red (see Foolish's quote... "if the mafia don't kill you tonight you're red" [that was paraphrased]). So, I want to see how he responds to Pyrr's accusation before I decide if I want to vote for him. The pressures pretty strong already. ANd i gotta say i'm all but convinced on this one. Pyrr dropped a bomb with this one. Reading through it is very convincing, and given how DarthThienAn has been playing this game ("Chezinu"-style but even more useless) at the very most he is playing very anti-town. I'm tempted to place my vote on him, but as we still have around 11 hours till deadline the fact that DarthThienAn hasn't been able to defend himself means that my vote will be staying upon an abstain now. After all, innocent till proven guilty, right? Something that should be taken into consideration is the dichotomy of the battle. Still so early on, I don't think it's worth it for Mafia (if Pyrrhuloxia) is indeed so to make such a direct attack, especially since Mafia know that the victim will indubitably flip town-aligned. Of course, that could be WiFOM speaking but it doesn't seem likely. If DarthThienAn is not Mafia, then we probably have a town-on-town fight that the Mafia are either going to slightly help stir on or sit back and enjoy. Make no mistake, DarthThienAn is a strong player. I have read over a few of his past games now and he is quiet coherent and forceful when he wants to be. Hopefully this calling-out will force him to be more of a benefit to the town. In regards to Subversion: The more I read into it, the more that I think people still accusing Subversion are just looking for an easy target. As Roffles has mentioned, Subversion still seems new to this game, and blunders do occur. If they continue to happen, we can easily hold him accountable for them, and his trail is easy enough to backtrack. The same holds true with BrownBear. He (conclusively figure out it's a he from reading past games) can be a very well-spoken player, and was very pro-town in the first game he subbed in for, where he got into a bit of a sticky situation with a strategic modkill scenario. He's attempted to make amends for his Day 1 actions, though if his posting slips back into the unacceptable zone he's already on radar. Chaoser seems to be a separate ticket, though if he is red he is not as strong a threat as DarthThienAn can potentially be. I assume Chaoser's experiment was to get Subversion to claim, though I think at this point we've already had enough soft claiming to get us through. With all this being said and done, right now it seems like that along with the rest of the town, we're all waiting for DarthThienAn to speak. Hopefully he'll finally calm down and give us some legible answers, and hopefully we'll be able to bring out the great town player in him. For now, since I am heading out for the day I will once again ##Vote abstainas a placeholder. I will most definitely return before deadline and will change my vote to DarthThienAn, but at this point I'm unwilling to vote for Subversion or BrownBear. Chaoser, too, can wait for a later day, and we will pressure him to post better. People that need to post more: tree.hugger, Divinek, lakrismamma, SouthRawrea, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler, d3_crescentia, Tricode, and zeks. I am just going through the player roster thinking "who haven't I seen on the thread" in a while, so this list may be subjectively based upon my memory. For the most part though, I think this is correct. Don't let inactivity hurt us, town. Just because we're embroiled in this current situation it doesn't mean we let potential Mafia just sit back and do nothing. On July 22 2010 02:28 Protactinium wrote:
Reposting as to edit above: after the vote, where it says "... and will change my vote to DarthThienAn,..." I forgot to include the conditional "if he does not provide a satisfactory defense/explanation" at the end of it.
See you in a few hours, town. On July 22 2010 06:40 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 06:27 chaoser wrote:
...
the last two, protactinium and zeks, don't really mention no-lynching but they both advocate lynching someone (an inactive the first day). They both abstained.
So are these guys suspicious cause they contradicted themselves as well? Bring a better argument. Chaoser, throwing blame around isn't the best way to make your case, especially if you are so blatantly wrong. I was subbed into this game and did not have time to finish reading the thread, as stated. If you are going to make false accusations, at least try to back them up. Furthermore, you realize that unless everybody abstains, somebody is bound to be lynched. There is no majority system here. On July 22 2010 07:48 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 07:44 Pandain wrote:
Also, since as of now theres basically a 3 way tie between Darth, Subversion, And Chaoser, what happens if theres a tie. Do they all get lynched? None of them? 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins over the other person. On July 22 2010 10:58 Protactinium wrote:
Will cast my vote in around an hour's time.
I still get this feeling that we're being toyed with. There are far too people talking over this to make me think that we've hooked a Mafia member.
Of course, that's WiFOM speaking to me. On July 22 2010 11:58 Protactinium wrote:
After careful consideration, I have to
##Vote DarthThienAn.
Your playstyle is too hard to read, and though you're posting in a more normal fashion at this point I believe you have polarized the town the most. While Subversion drew a lot of flak for the missed comment, in the end most of the impetuous people who jumped on that withdrew, but your case has thoroughly divided the town. At this point, I don't even know if any of you three are Mafia, and I am loathe to undertake a last-hour bandwagon. Between the madness you have brought us enough posts to look at, so in the case that you die we will be able to go back and find how this all started. On July 22 2010 12:00 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 11:59 DarthThienAn wrote:On July 22 2010 11:58 Protactinium wrote:
After careful consideration, I have to
##Vote DarthThienAn.
Your playstyle is too hard to read, and though you're posting in a more normal fashion at this point I believe you have polarized the town the most. While Subversion drew a lot of flak for the missed comment, in the end most of the impetuous people who jumped on that withdrew, but your case has thoroughly divided the town. At this point, I don't even know if any of you three are Mafia, and I am loathe to undertake a last-hour bandwagon. Between the madness you have brought us enough posts to look at, so in the case that you die we will be able to go back and find how this all started. like I said, when I die and flip town, lynch Pyrr This is definitely going to be taken into consideration, and was one of the key factors in my decision. Since you two are pretty "big-name" people going at it, it'll be easier to eliminate a strong Mafia member. On July 22 2010 13:23 Protactinium wrote:
At least he wasn't blue.
Tomorrow's the day for backtracking. On July 22 2010 13:30 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:On July 22 2010 13:28 youngminii wrote:On July 22 2010 13:25 tree.hugger wrote:On July 22 2010 13:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I regret nothing. Why the fuck did he fake blue? Because he didn't. Either Pyrr is a clever mafia, or a really really bad townie. I'm leaning towards the latter, and seeing as how we don't seem to want to kill the obvious mafia, can we take this one out next? On July 22 2010 13:23 youngminii wrote:
So on the bright side, how credible am I as a townie ey? You're not at all. And you never have been. How the hell am I not. Can you keep up with the thread please? I backed hyperbola, I backed DTA and I put my reputation on the line for him. If you think that somehow doesn't buy me any credibility at all you're heavily mistaken. It doesn't buy you any credibility. What's with having to "earn" your credibility anyway. Just play correctly and you won't have to be like "hey guys, I'm town, I'm town, have I convinced you I'm town yet?" On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on. You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one. On July 22 2010 13:39 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 13:36 youngminii wrote:On July 22 2010 13:34 Protactinium wrote:On July 22 2010 13:32 youngminii wrote:
Well see Protactinium, with a central townie to rely on, the game becomes much easier as he can direct the scum hunt without the town having to worry about the central townie being scum. Also, every confirmed townie makes a huge bit of difference late game.
It is not enough to play 'correctly' especially as the game goes on. You are not a confirmed townie. You are not a central townie. You are not a confirmed, central townie. Please bring this back up when you become one. I never said I was. I was saying that in response to your question 'What's with the earning your position as townie anyway'. Stop twisting my words. I don't need you to tell me the rules of the game. You and I both know this. When I say "you" I mean it in a general term. You're so hell-bent on trying to appear as town that it works against you. I'm stopping here. There's no point discussing this further as it adds nothing to the thread. On July 23 2010 11:01 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 10:54 Pandain wrote:On July 23 2010 10:51 chaoser wrote:
So right now the consensus to move to tricode/zeks/amber/misder? Sigh...wtf did we do on day 2 then... Yup, that's the problem. We fuddled up day2. Theres a chance that one of the 3 remaining lynch suspects from day two are ACTUALLY mafia, but as of now it's too hard to tell which one. I for one feel it would be much better to focus on the quiet ones in this game, in order to at least get them to talk. Unless anyone disagrees with me, I think that should be our plan. I'd like to wait till the Night is done (does it end at 13:00 KST again or was that a one time thing?) before deciding on targets. Bandwagons start this way, you know. Hopefully we'll get a good check result back, but if not let's see... Tricode just seems bored. His self-kill comment just makes it seem like he's bored, but he could just be fooling around. zeks is pretty inactive; need to see him post more and about his own thoughts instead of going along with the flow. Not sure on Amber, have to continue reading. Misder is going to be out for a while, so we won't be able to hear anything from (I'm assuming it's a him?) him. Beating a dead horse is kind of mean, as well, but this is Mafia. Through skimming his posts I don't find anything overtly Mafia about him. He does seem slightly tied to BloodyC0bbler though. On July 23 2010 13:57 Protactinium wrote:
Officially, if we go by the clock we're already almost four hours late. On July 23 2010 14:30 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2010 14:27 Pandain wrote:On July 23 2010 14:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Before this day turns into a giant flame fest like the last few pages.
I took a hit last night. Holy crud. This is the info I was talking about. Wait a second... then how did two people die. and a third got hit? Was there a vigilante? Has to be a vigilante shot. There is no sign of a Mad Hatter death... Which raises two pertinent questions: 1) Which one of the hits was a Vigilante shot? 2) Was the shot a lone shot in an attempt to be a hero, or was it directed? Compiling Roffles' and Jayme's posts. I don't really recall much of them during this game between everything else going on, but they both seemed semi-inactive. I guess this was a blue-sniping night... Part 1 of the posts...
*gives golden star + hug*
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Nice playing with you everyone! You should be able to bag this town!
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Part 3:
[spoiler]
On July 25 2010 11:13 Protactinium wrote:
What the fuck happened today.
Wow.
I just finished catching up, but I've got to go again. Read up to some part on Page 115.
I'll be back later tonight probably during SPL commercials to type up a long post.
We're in a damn bad situation right now, and it does not help that we had a false blue claim.
There's only one Medic, which means we cannot protect targets if the Mafia really want to drive things home. Never mind the suicide bomber, we cannot even protect against a normal double-stacked shot.
This is a very bad situation, and I'm going to mull over it. Perhaps there will be a solution. We have a few unconfirmed claims (Tricode, SouthRawrea, BloodyC0bbler, d3_crescentia) and two Detectives. We have split camps in the town. We have voting lists. These things should be able to find us something.
Unfortunately, for now it's the Mafia's time to shine. However, the Mad Hatter is still alive. The Vigilante is powerless, or so one would claim. The two Detectives are still alive, and I'm assuming they have not made contact, and we still have a Medic.
I'll address the rest of the blue roles later, but if you are the Medic: trust nobody unless they've checked you to be a Medic. And if that happens, there's no need to reveal your role to anybody else. Once the Medic dies our days are numbered.
We're in a sticky situation right now, but there may still be a way to get out of it. As for the rest of the town, do not flame this night away as the last one was. I would volunteer to do it, but I know that I'm terrible at doing so, but we really need character analysis. What I propose is this:
Everybody goes back and does a full character analysis on the person below or above (skip dead people, so only people still living) them in the list. For instance, if we are going down the list I, being number 29, would skip Roffles who is dead at 30 and go back to analyze tree.hugger at 1. Go back and pull up all their posts. Read them, analyze them. Look at how they voted, who they tied in with. Who they were against. If you are town, give your genuine thoughts, and read as if you were reading from an observer's perspective and had no bias clouding your judgment. I will hazard a guess that not enough of us have been going back through posts, and stuff has been buried in the thread since we are not backtracking. I am guilty of this, due to a lack of time, but with the next 23 hours that remain, please do this.
Once you have completed your living person, go look over the dead. Do the same thing. Everybody posts about the dead people, and we shall see how the "analysis" differs.
Towns, especially TL towns from my reading, are very hard to organize, since there is no clear "leader" role in this type of format. It was going to be citi.zen, but now he's dead and was not, as he claimed, a Mad Hatter. The real Mad Hatter and Detective coupling, assuming they are genuine and not a Godfather/Mafia ploy, are now still stuck in the shadows to my knowledge. What I am suggesting gives us a semblance of organization without the clear need for a leader.
In short, analyze your target player on the roster list. Analyze the dead people. Pull up all of their posts and check through them. We cannot afford to let the Mafia just take control of the town on a day-to-day basis; we have to start stringing things along now.
Longer post to come later.
On July 25 2010 12:42 Protactinium wrote:
Thread is very quiet right now. Going to start working on my post now. I know that zeks has claimed Mad Hatter, but please do not ignore my post. Analysis is something we've missed this game and it's got to be done.
On July 25 2010 16:21 Protactinium wrote:
Fuck it, I'm a third of the way through my post. SPL is over, and now I've decided that I'll continue writing and post it when Day 3 starts. Going to be out all tomorrow until probably after deadline; sorry in advance for inactivity.
Make time and finish posts though tomorrow; I would say preferably put them out during night, but there's pros and cons to that.
Good night, town.
On July 26 2010 15:54 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 15:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Before day ends we need to figure out what claims we have had and so on.
Can someone in / understanding this "town circle" thing make a chart visualizing this?
I'm serious. It can be ms paint or whatever I just think it would help. I have just caught up on thread. And it's a shitstorm. Ignore what I said about doing analysis. This is much bigger. Everybody, if you have been wondering who the mystery man in Pandain's post (Mr. ???) is, wonder no more. It is I.And now, I can say that Pandain has been lying to me. Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 15:23 Pandain wrote:On July 26 2010 15:21 Divinek wrote:On July 26 2010 15:14 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
#vote SouthRawrea
#vote Pandain
I'm just going to start with who I know for 100% sure has lying. Hasn't worked well so far but I don't give a fuck. my logical trail takes me down the same path, ill likely end up on a liar as well for my other vote because if you're town for fuck sakes dont openly lie to the town, at least in such a stupid and poor manner Just to clear it up, I did NOT lie to town. I lied only to Youngmini because we were going to let him into the circle but had to be sure he wasn't GF(since he had checked green.). I did NOT lie to the town or jeopardize it, until Youngmini reaveled it, probably with good intentions :/. It was ???,Subversion, and I's secret expirement. If I still lived, than youngmini wasn't GF and we would let him in our group. That's the extent of my lie, to youngmini for one day. The pms with Subversion I posted verify this. With a full game's worth of PMs from both Pandain and Subversion, I can show you that this "secret experiment" was not anything planned between the three of us. In fact, Pandain went at it on his own, and did not consult Subversion or myself. You may ask, how am I confirmed? I started PMing Subversion sometime after the first night, when I realized he had soft claimed blue in thread. Through PMs, he told me he was a Detective, and that his first check had been youngminii but he was suspicious that youngminii was Godfather. Disregarding that, I asked him to check me Night 2 so that we could have a fully confirmed circle (and as a test to see if he would get my role), but after a while he decided to check Amber[LighT] instead, as already said earlier in the thread. Regarding Pandain, and how he comes into this: during Day 2, Subversion was on the line to be lynched, and I pulled Pandain off of him because I still believed that Subversion was Detective. Yes, it is a risk, but the plan was calculated. If Subversion had died during Night 2, then Pandain would have been outed as Mafia infiltration. Sacrificing one Detective for Mafia is always worth it, especially in this format, and that was my failsafe. However, Subversion lived through the night, so I began to think Pandain was more legitimate. After all, the rules of the game (even stickied in the Mafia threads) say to kill blues as you find them if you are Mafia, and Subversion was still alive. However, at this point Subversion was too afraid still to tell youngminii AND Amber[LighT], since he feared both of them could be the Godfather. Not wanting him to out himself too early, I thought it would be best for him, myself, and Pandain to stay quiet, and to wait out the day. Then citi.zen's plan came in, and this is where things started going awry. I do not have much time per day to dedicate to Mafia, especially with guests this weekend, and so I returned to my computer with a message from Pandain saying that he had told youngminii that he was Detective and that youngminii would be the mouth. Apparently, he had not consulted Subversion about this and when I talked to Subversion later that day he was very distressed and expressed his doubts. I, too, secretly began to have them, but they were still unfounded: Pandain seems to post impulsively, so I chalked his latest scheme up to that. citi.zen saw through this, of course, and then the thread went to shit with massive claims. Ah, before I forget, Pandain also wanted me to help him call for a mass roleclaim to Tricode, who wouldn't have been confirmed at that point due to conflicting calls over town kill power roles. And so we have it here. Mafia killed Subversion, and I had a PM from Pandain telling me that the "other Detective" was going to check Subversion tonight, but to "keep Subversion from thinking that, and to just play it cool and to have him check Misder/lakrismamma. And here we are now. Town, I am going to bed soon, but if you want a roster of PMs, just call for them. I can provide them with rapidity that begets falseness, and I invite you to scrutinize them all. What am I saying with this post? Pandain is Mafia? No, simply that he lied, and "took initiative" and tried to implement his circle. It still is awfully suspicious the way things turned out, but one thing's for sure: if we're lynching all liars, Pandain has some stuff to explain. Edited hanging bold tag.
On July 26 2010 15:54 Protactinium wrote:
Damn it, hanging bold tag...
On July 26 2010 16:05 Protactinium wrote:Actually, I'm just going to put out PMs here now. I apologize for any repeats, since Pandain tended to send sometimes two or three from the same PM-thread before I could respond to the first one, so I tried to consolidate. Subversion's suspicion PM: + Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: citi.zen's plan.
Date: 7/24/10 19:51
just feel like im losing control of the situation here. he's a bit impulsive, and i'd rather make the decisions myself than have to keep going thru him. also may seem suspicious later on.
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It was kind of weird that he did so... on his own as well. That could have potentially owned you if you had done so at the same time...
If you are going to do so, at least wait the time period okay? We might still have a counter-claim. If I were citi.zen and red, trading one red is worth getting two Detectives, since then the town has no way to find Mafia, right? Even so, I think it's too risky. What's wrong with using Pandain anyway, beyond the "convolution" factor.
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What do you think of it?
There are a few holes...
Not bad at all.
Some things I need to explain.
I checked young and he was townie. But the problem is him ORR amber COULD be GF. So pandain and I had this plan. pandain pm'd young and told him HE was the DT and had checked him. now we wait and see if pandain dies next, then we know young is scum.
But now with citizen's plan, pandain has PM'd citizen saying he is the DT. He did this without waiting for a response from me, he's a bit of a loose cannon like that, keeps making decisions without my approval.
anyway, i told him now that we need to tell citizen and the other DT that I am in fact the real DT, or else it gets way too convoluted, and obviously explain the plan about young.
this may be risky, but he keeps taking decisions into his own hands now, and i dont like that. I don't want to have to do everything through him anymore. PMs with Pandain (apologies for messiness): + Show Spoiler +From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: O GOD IM SORRY
Date: 7/25/10 13:59
I'll try
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An excellent one. I would definitely recommend it!
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was that a good movie
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And I quote from the movie Inception:
"Will you take a leap of faith?"
You've got your chance.
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trust me this time
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...Pandain, you do realize that if there is Mafia in the other circle you effectively just killed both DTs if the suicide bomber decides he wants his 72 virgins.
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dt is prob going to check sub.
We should not let sub know anything though.
Act if normal, try to get him to check misder/lakris.
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Sigh, why do you do these things.
It's okay, have Subversion check him tonight to verify him.
Though why did you give the name up without confirmation?
If Subversion dies tonight, then we know something's up...
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I told zeks whos in our circle along with dt.
I'm afraid I fadoodled this up.
So I either gave us a chance, or fadoodled us up
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Just keep your cool, and don't out Subversion. He seems to have gone AWOL, but I'll talk to him when he gets around to the night.
As for the check, I'm not sure still.
Be back later.
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Youngmini revealed me. What a badunkadunk
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Alright, but don't give into him either. Just keep it in case he decides to try to out you. Besides, we have the trump card that you are not really the DT, and he is safe either way.
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Im not going to post the pm chain yet. Especially at this time. we'll talk about it together later.
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He thinks. Still, what kind of threat is that...
Anti-town behavior, no matter what he "thinks."
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No he knows(thinks) I false claimed.
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What's wrong with this kid. He thinks you're DT and is pressuring you to reveal that you are DT, and that you'll be killed during the night? Post the whole PM chain. This is ridiculous. If you were DT and listened, and they killed SouthRawrea who is Hatter, it's good for them. If you don't, he "reveals" to Mafia who the DT is, and they kill him. BAD for town either way.
Post the PM chain. I will be back after deadline; guests are beckoning. Good luck.
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I told him youngmini was safe, part of my dt role. And that is the PM. From "Anyway yeah..." to "In this claim."
I respond:"Haha I'm the DT.
I think you have too much trust in citizen and his "DT."
I mean, now that I think about it, why would citizen risk the whole town on a plan that could potentially give this unconfirmed DT all the info mafia needed. "
To which he then responds.
"Okay then, you better hope you're right. If you're red, the best way to go about this is to lynch SouthRawr because I'll be revealing you tonight (before mafia get their night kills by the way, so that's not a way out).
If you're DT and citi.zen really is red, then we're all dandy. But if you're DT and citi.zen is not red (I don't see why this would happen), you're still going to be revealed tonight."
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Post that PM you got from him. I don't understand; even if he's going to throw you under the bus why is he implicating Amber[LighT]? Something's not right with youngminii--for the better part of the day he's been saying "lynch southrawrea since if he's bomber he'll have bomb on chaoser" but he's also saying that southrawrea is red. I got a two minute reprieve, and haven't read thread, but this is a bad threat to make.
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Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: URGENT URGENT URGENT
Date: 7/25/10 09:19
yeah, if he tries to i'll just be like "Im not dt"
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Alright, but don't give into him either. Just keep it in case he decides to try to out you. Besides, we have the trump card that you are not really the DT, and he is safe either way.
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Im not going to post the pm chain yet. Especially at this time. we'll talk about it together later.
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He thinks. Still, what kind of threat is that...
Anti-town behavior, no matter what he "thinks."
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No he knows(thinks) I false claimed.
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What's wrong with this kid. He thinks you're DT and is pressuring you to reveal that you are DT, and that you'll be killed during the night? Post the whole PM chain. This is ridiculous. If you were DT and listened, and they killed SouthRawrea who is Hatter, it's good for them. If you don't, he "reveals" to Mafia who the DT is, and they kill him. BAD for town either way.
Post the PM chain. I will be back after deadline; guests are beckoning. Good luck.
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I told him youngmini was safe, part of my dt role. And that is the PM. From "Anyway yeah..." to "In this claim."
I respond:"Haha I'm the DT.
I think you have too much trust in citizen and his "DT."
I mean, now that I think about it, why would citizen risk the whole town on a plan that could potentially give this unconfirmed DT all the info mafia needed. "
To which he then responds.
"Okay then, you better hope you're right. If you're red, the best way to go about this is to lynch SouthRawr because I'll be revealing you tonight (before mafia get their night kills by the way, so that's not a way out).
If you're DT and citi.zen really is red, then we're all dandy. But if you're DT and citi.zen is not red (I don't see why this would happen), you're still going to be revealed tonight."
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Post that PM you got from him. I don't understand; even if he's going to throw you under the bus why is he implicating Amber[LighT]? Something's not right with youngminii--for the better part of the day he's been saying "lynch southrawrea since if he's bomber he'll have bomb on chaoser" but he's also saying that southrawrea is red. I got a two minute reprieve, and haven't read thread, but this is a bad threat to make.
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Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: What...the...Fadoodle
Date: 7/25/10 07:30
This is Pm between me and zeks
Mesends video of "somebody watching me"
Him:If you are what I think you are you're on a path of being LVP.
*word slip*
Me:Least valuable player?
hehe
Him:You better not be DT.
If you are its obvious you haven't checked me. Or you'd understand everything.
ME:Way to make everything so mysterious
Him: Hope you got that
Now here I am saying...
What the fadoodle? From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Also:
Date: 7/25/10 06:59
I'm voting for Citizen now.
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Consolidating. This is true; I don't think Mafia would jump out to help their leader unless he was in deep shit. Maybe citi.zen isn't there and they're all panicking now?
If citi.zen is Hatter and dies, then he'll get Mafia. We'll get information from that since right now we all seem to be evenly divided, so we can go pick up supporters. And if SouthRawrea is Mafia as well, we definitely destroy him tomorrow with our double lynch. That's a guarantee right there of getting one Mafia right? And we should be able to get more based on DT checks. One thing I just thought of is if citi.zen is Mafia and we don't kill him, we are risking our DTs tonight, and if one of them dies then it's bad for us.
I think they're being convinced themselves... no reason overextending at this point. I'm going to wait for citi.zen to defend though before becoming too biased. American justice is supposed to be impartial, right, and the defendant should always be allowed to speak.
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True.At the same time, will that negate his plan? It had holes anyway but it had potential
Don't forget in that plan it's possible we'll only get one mafia if a mafia fake claims DT to a "trusted rep"
Do you want to try to convince the others yet? Get tree hugger to help for more momentum?
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I trust him. Besides, at this point both are potential Hatters right? citi.zen will have both his bombs placed, and SouthRawrea only has one. citi.zen, being astute (if he really is hatter) will have bombs on at least one Mafia, while SouthRawrea being new is more likely to kill town. I think it's actually win-win for us if we lynch citi.zen: we'll probably off a Mafia, and if citi.zen is Mafia then we can control SouthRawrea's bombs to make them more useful, then have him lynched next day once he gets both.
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Citizen has been far more active and contributive than south. And yeah, chaoser and young are probably not on the same team lol, they hate each other too much. Than replace young with sinquity. Hehe.
South does seem more genuine, that is for sure. Just for that, maybe I should trust him. He's SO believable. Maybe he's good actor? though he is new
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Will respond to all here.
Your list seems sound; I don't know about Subversion though since I still believe him. If he's faking we'll know.
Notice that bumatlarge jumped out to defend citi.zen early but then disappeared again? zeks is also randomly suspicious, I agree he might be Mafia. Good call on that earlier by the way. I would totally have ignored him. youngminii is pushing very hard for Chaoser... you still believe them both to be Mafia? Of course, it could be a ploy.
I'd rather save SouthRawrea. He has been active and has provided his defense, and seems more genuine. citi.zen hasn't even shown his face since attacking SouthRawrea's counterclaim. Instead, there's a slew of random people defending him... and why?
zeks could be Mafia, and if we catch citi.zen we catch him.
I'm still very confused about all this though; not 100% on anything. Mafia is too perplexing, sometimes.
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Also: If we want to save south we need to act now.
Lynching south does give us info though. Alot of info. Do you think it would be worth it just to lynch him for that? From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: URGENT URGENT URGENT
Date: 7/25/10 08:57
Anyway yeah I'm telling you right now to vote for SouthRawr (and tell amber[light] to). If you don't, I am going to publicly tell everyone who you are at night and that you false claimed DT (assuming citi.zen is green/blue).
Yes, this is a threat. Yes, I will tell everyone that you are claiming DT. Yes, I will include amber[light] in this claim.
THAT is from Youngmini. Dont know how he figured out. Hope you've been following thread, theres been so much happening. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Citizens' plan
Date: 7/25/10 06:32
arghhhhh zeks is mafia. I know it!
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Show nested quote +
On July 24 2010 14:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:25 Divinek wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On July 24 2010 14:13 youngminii wrote:
What's suspicious is that you're trying to block this from happening. Not pointing fingers but it's quite obvious that this is a pretty solid plan with minimal chances of being infiltrated by scum, even then it will be obvious as the game progresses if he's lying or not.
From blocking it? I actually contest many claims in many games that are completely out of left field. No one agreed to claiming to someone who thought d3 was almost fully legit, yet your agreeing to claim to someone who has appeared out as the last KP role? as well as saying "sup im the medic spokesmen, got myself a circle already" etc...
Its too good to be true this early.
But surely if he's coming out as the last kp role it would have to be contested if he's lying? Though I could think of some reasons why the remaining kp person might not want to counter claim him it seems like it would be worth it to bust a fake circle of trust
Say for instance He is lying.
It means two dts (if not in contact with eachother) pm him themselves, or through a mouth, those mouths are then talking to him. He can put them in contact with eachother, they see it as semi legit, then a period goes by they all mass claim him (as he asked for blue roles) he then proceeds to blue snipe, where it costs the rest only one red, to off 2+ blues.
WE also don't know if the last KP role is a hatter or a vig. If its a vig, he counterclaims and then it comes down to a war of which of them gets lynched. People fearing that he is in fact a hatter, off the vig see his flip and go oh shit. Conversely the mafia could send someone up and do the same thing.
I believe the proper amendmant to citi.zens plan is if HE is not the center of said circle. Or be lynched to prove the legitmacy of his claim. He can put the other checked person his dt has checked with the the other dt's liason and by dying confirms his claim DT's can then claim straight through the liasons, and one of those liasons can take part of town leadership and pass roles to dts. There would be two people to counterclaim if someone tried to jump up and take info, and would be alot more reliable than trusting one persons word.
The only issue with that plan is if he is infact hatter then the town would have lost its last kp role and hope that his current bomb placement takes reds out.
Look, again, Tricode is not 100% confirmed. We have three conflicting blue claims, and it's just as possible as the others faking for Tricode to be faking, meaning him and BloodyC0bbler are in conjunction. Why else would he say to keep BloodyC0bbler alive as long as possible when he shot him? The point is, you don't mass claim unless you are certain, since it's a lose-all strategy if he isn't genuine. I'm not saying I don't believe he is, but being skeptical wins you Mafia games.
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1. What exactly was the addendum bc offered?
2. How should we adjust it to make it as useful to town as possible.
I personally think we SHOULD roleclaim to tricode. I think he's confirmed. I'm sure of it. Citizen only claimed because "he saw an opportunity" (if he's really blue" and south only claimed because "he saw it getting way out of control."
quotes doesn't indicate what they word for word said, just what their overall message said.
Tricode is the real genuine one. He has a reason(must...kill...bc) and claimed only after arguing whether it was worth it. Seems honest to me.
I'm still confused why you wouldn't want to roleclaim to him. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: My conspiracy theory
Date: 7/25/10 06:09
In tree huggers post, is he saying that subversion, young, and citizen are all mafia? or town? 'Or what.
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Yeah, he's definitely new to this, you can tell. Chat Mafia is a lot different and it's easy to be overwhelmed. Telling where the bomb was placed was probably not a good idea, but now that it's out we need parity from citi.zen. It really is starting to bother me.
citi.zen has not address BloodyC0bbler's main points (the addendum that makes the plan a lot stronger), Infundibulum's critiques (no response), and he hops on SouthRawrea instantly but disappears after the post. All in all, it's not inspiring confidence in me.
Furthermore, I have a PM from tree.hugger myself. Received it a while ago, but I believe tree.hugger has a circle himself.
From: tree.hugger [ 3260 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: youngminii...
Date: 7/22/10 13:42
Subversion, youngminii, citi.zen, BC(probably), lakrismamma(possibly), and.... we'll say... Siniquity.
The first five are on the same team. Watch for it, and read about it on day one. They have cute little fake arguments, and then citizen and BC throw away their votes, and the others mix it up a little bit. Dunno about siniquity. I'm... 30% sure about the whole bunch, and about 90% sure of the first three.
I'm going to be voting citi.zen if he doesn't attend to these points in a timely fashion. There's no logical sense in proclaiming a town plan with himself as the absolute head if he isn't around to argue for it.
Going to respond to your other PM here as well, to consolidate. Experience makes you seem pro-town. SouthRawrea may be Mafia, but he plays from a genuinely new perspective, while citi.zen has been both town and Mafia enough times. Conclusively, just because somebody seems pro-town doesn't mean they are.
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I found some holes in south rawrea's plan's such as revealing who the bombs are on. Maybe a newb mistake but idk. The last post by him seems pretty genuine though.
Youngmini's saying we should lynch on information. Based on that, lynching BC might sound like an even better option but at the same time I wouldn't want to lose a townie.
I want to vote zeks but that's never going to fly. Not even sure about him either.
This game is so hard rofl.
In truth, I would want to vote....citizen.
I need more info tbh.
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Check SouthRawrea's last post. It would be nice to know who the bombs are on, right? citi.zen is definitely more dangerous/experienced than SouthRawrea, and if he is truly the Hatter then his bombs should at least be on one Mafia. I agreed with citi.zen's plan initially but now that Infundibulum has found so many holes that citi.zen refuses to respond to, I'm leaning more toward citi.zen. Not sure yet, which is why I will hold my vote. What about you?
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arghhh.... who to pick. It's either citizen or south, that much I know.
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He could, but with two claims (and we don't even know about the outside) he could just be fishing for DTs.
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Haha I have no idea why I sent that or what it means.
Maybe I was asking if you thought Citizen really does have a detective in his knowlege.
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What do you mean? What's a Mafia thing?
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Do you think Citizen doesn't really have a mafia thing? From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Also: What should Subversion check tonight?
Date: 7/25/10 05:27
You can? How exactly does DT work. I thought you check and recieve it once night starts.
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You can choose any time during the night?
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kk. I think we only have like 4 hours so...
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Let's think about that more so when the day is nearing an end. Tricode is fine, but how do we confirm the Detective (Subversion) who checks Tricode? Also if Tricode is really legitimate but Subversion is faking, he can just say Tricode was lying, and if BloodyC0bbler and Tricode aren't Mafia, then that offs two very strong town players.
We should think about this check later tonight.
Be back in 10 minutes.
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I'm thinking Tricode. If we get him confirmed as vigi, then we can keep doing citi's plan and since he's safe, people can mass roleclaim to him From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: FAAACK
Date: 7/25/10 00:10
2 claims for DT. I'm going to be up in the spotlight. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: What do you think of
Date: 7/25/10 05:01
Whole post here. Top of the page is the most recent PM to him. I'm the first post at the bottom.
Well, there is no counter-claim to me. Him, I have no clue. 50% chance he is the "fake" Dt rep. You are stranger and stranger with every message.
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T_T
caught again.
Honestly not sure how to respond just because you and him might be mafia. But then again, all this ever did was plan to see if youngmini was GF. Let's just say that youngmini doesn't know who the real DT is.
faaack word slip..
Of course if you and him are both mafia that plan goes to null :/.
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was*
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<--- confused about that sentence.
"he only said he as the dt rep."
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Interesting, he only said he as the DT rep.
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Nah I'm just part of a trust circle. Youngmini's.
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Just to be clear: you are saying you are a DT?
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The people who claimed dt.
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Who is "us"?
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Heh doesn't matter. It was in regards to something else. Yeah, one of us is mafia. My previous thing doesn't mean anything.
But damn, I knew it was a good plan but this far?
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Just happened. The mafia is digging themselves deeper.
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If a triple claim happens PM me first. I'm going to remain purposely vague. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: What do you think of
Date: 7/25/10 03:29
What do you think of tricode getting everyone to roleclaim to him via pms. I mean, he is confirmed townie. From: Pandain [ 682 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: ONO WHAT DO I DO
Date: 7/24/10 13:26
Well no it just means one of them is mafia.
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Hmm, well you know that's not true. If the Mafia wanted to off citi.zen and a Mafia member counter-claimed that basically gets citi.zen lynched for nothing during the day, right?
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If the other vigi/mad hatter counter claims than cit.zen is mafia. Also, I had something to say in this sentence but I forgot it after Also. T_T
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It's not that I don't trust the plan--it's that I don't trust the timing of the plan. It seems very conveniently placed, but that may just be me. His posts have contributed, but they're mostly just correcting other people's mistakes. I guess that's contribution, but it's really easy to pass off not much as a lot more.
Wait a minute, I must have interpreted. Where does it say he will get himself lynched?
If that's the case then it's definitely more trust-worthy. Mafia would have to be highly intrepid to do this, but as it's been pointed out a lot we are not in a good situation right now. If this plan is genuine, then we are in a good spot. If not, then the game is over. Seems like a huge risk to take doesn't it?
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You don't trust cit.zen? He has a solid plan. If he's a blue he'd probably have wanted to lay low a bit, and his posts have all been contributive. Finally, his plan even inlcudes a way for HIM to get lynched/pointed out as mafia.
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Eh, I think the better thing to have done was to wait for Subversion to make a decision himself. It's his role and he has to play it. We should be okay this time thanks to Subversion actually not being around, but we might not get lucky next time. Let me know everything that's said okay? I don't trust youngminii, and I don't trust citi.zen and his "Detective" since citi.zen hasn't done anything for us all game.
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Original Message:
Your probably right. I was just scared cause I had to either reveal to youngmini about Subversion or let youngmini pm cit.zen.
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Original Message:
Ugh, not a good idea to act on your own, especially if Subversion had PMed.
We can work with what we have; a name is important. When I said cross-check, I meant I would go through the thread and see how said other "Detective" and citi.zen had interacted, and how Detective had interacted with town in general.
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Original Message:
Subversion I got scared about. I think he's afk but at first I sent him a message saying
"cit.zen's plan sounds like a good one. I think you should pm him. Just because we can keep the previous plan the same so if I do you can also bust Youngmini."
But he didn't respond. 6 minutes later I told him what I did. So I was unsure whether he pmed citi/zen first. I hope not, and don't htink so.
Unfortunately, just in case so then cit.zens plan wouldn't be screwed I had to PM cit.zen saying that "If a triple claim happens, pm me first. I'm going to remain purposely vague."
Tried to handle the situation best I could. :/
Also, what do you mean "cross check how the two have intereacted." which two.
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Original Message:
Ah, I see. Hmm...
If citi.zen's got a false DT lined up, let's figure out who he is. Let me know the name, alright? I want to cross-check to see how the two have interacted.
And yeah, I won't tell youngminii. As far as I'm concerned he's still dangerous to the town with his constant urge to point fingers.
Does Subversion know you did this?
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Original Message:
No all Citizen should know is that IM Dt. Therefore, Subversion is still completely safe. Youngmini still thinks I'm dt. And I'm relaying all information to you and subversion.
I didn't tell Youngmini Subversion was DT just in case he IS GF.
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Original Message:
Ah okay...
Not a good idea still, but keep me in the loop alright?
Subversion didn't trust youngminii because he could be Godfather... Remember the way he was posting Day 1 (and 2... and even today...)? It's the type of posting that's begging for a check.
Still not good for us if citi.zen is faking, since he completely destroys a Detective and his circle if that happens...
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Original Message:
That was youngmini who pmed me. I told him I was dt, remember?
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Original Message:
Wait, I'm confused. citi.zen false claiming is a huge gambit, but Mafia are pretty comfortably ahead. Claiming Hatter is nice as well--he won't die during the night (Mafia is afraid of bombs) and that way it doesn't look suspicious if he looks during the day. Furthermore, his claim came in the middle of waiting for BloodyC0bbler to make his post, and right after citi.zen himself had some pressure on him. Timing doesn't seem right.
Is Subversion saying for you not to PM? I'm a bit confused by the end message.
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Original Message:
Him:
The idea is that we don't want the actual DT to needlessly PM at first. If citi.zen is false claiming/the DT that checked citi.zen is false claiming then were screwed if you PM. If someone in your group PMs then it's a lot safer.
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Original MessageMe)
Oh dw I'll do it.
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Original MessageYoungmini)
Yo I'm gonna go ahead and contact citi.zen about the whole DT claim thing (read his post). I'll wait until you reply before doing it.
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fuck now what? Posting these first, going back to find my (earlier) PMs with Subversion. I haven't had many of them recently since we've both not been around the computer it seems. Once again, this doesn't say anything definitive about Pandain. I want people to look over these PMs before jumping to conclusions though.
[QUOTE]On July 26 2010 16:15 Protactinium wrote:
The rest of the PMs I have with Subversion:
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia.
Date: 7/21/10 21:52
It was pretty stupid of me to mention that I have a role. I guess it was a panic AH MY GAD DONT VOTE FOR ME IM SPECIAL kinda moment. I don't really have a problem telling you, as mafia most likely know now I'm blue anyway.
What you say about chaoser rings true. Literally the only thing I'm going on with him is his little "test" that he was running by voting me. It sounded lame and stupid, but also didn't sound scummy to me at all. Just a feeling I guess, but I'm convinced he's not mafia. I also am apparently not very good at this game, lol, so I could be very wrong.
My role isn't night kill, it's detective. 1st night I checked Youngmini (he was 2nd in votes so seemed like a decent choice) and he flipped townie.
Do you know any medics? lol, I really want to tell one to save me!
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Original Message:
You were getting bandwagoned. That's one of the key ways I've found of generally determining if somebody is Mafia or not. Just the fact that so many people jumped on you without providing their own reasons is pretty indicative. Though you do have to be careful about what you say, especially early on. We already can see firsthand the consequences, no? As I mentioned in thread, somebody pointed out in PM to me that post, and I made voting analysis myself. Obviously I didn't post that because it's already been worked to death (this is why you do voting threads as a host; makes it simpler on everybody...) but from the responses and subsequent posting I have come to the conclusion that the town is just pointing fingers, spurred on by Mafia.
Regardless, you read as town to me now. I'll expound upon this further down.
Chaoser seems... suspicious to me. Unlike what I get from you and BrownBear, Chaoser seems more devious. I have to go look at his posting history more carefully, but it's something that I feel more people should be looking at. Especially pay attention to the "connections" Chaoser has made, both those that are antagonistic and the ones that seem more friendly.
Pyrr's post is very convincing, and mostly correct, and it's one of the good leads we have so far--at least it's more convincing than anything else we have. I was going to make a post today on the people that were being pointed at (promised it yesterday) but it seems that part of it has been taken care for me. Still, remember to always go back and look for yourself. Pretend like you never read the post, then try to see if you can draw the same conclusions. As such, I think DTA has a pretty equal chance of being town or Mafia. His past play is strong and logical, though he seems to be bored this game. Is he masking something? He may very well be, though his play style definitely doesn't help the town. If anything, he'll be worth lynching to get avoid getting rid of somebody more likely to be town.
I apologize for the length of this PM, though that's how they all tend to be. At this point though, I want to bring up the mention of roles. You've made two references now to not being a townie, both in thread a while back when you were asking if you should roleclaim and right now. It's a leap of faith asking you to trust somebody, but I want to discuss with you your role, which I am pretty sure is one of the night kill powers. If it is what I think it is, you have no worries in telling anybody your role.
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Original Message:
Bandwagon does seem like its starting to form. Although, to be honest I really felt I was getting bandwagoned! I mean, I made one stupid remark and suddenly everyone was up my ass
I'm glad we're looking at other people now, felt people were so focussed on me and Brownbear that noone was even looking at anyone else. I don't think I would have voted DTA if not for that post; I have been so worried about getting voted off its hard to think about other things besides defense! I was looking at chaoser 'cause his shit has been kind of weird, like voting for me "as a test"? What did that mean? But it seemed like he had some sincere, if not backwards plan so I didn't think he was mafia. Was going to look at DTA 'cause he was the other one with votes, but that's been done for me :D
I did find that post really, really convincing I must say. I am maybe n00b and easily influenced, but I don't know about DTA's history being new, and what that guy said really made a lot of sense.
It seems like the best choice for now, and to be honest, it's good for town if I'm not voted off. So if people are switching to someone else, and with good justification, it seems a good choice to go with that person.
Whats your take on the DTA as mafia thing? What did you think of that post?
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Original Message:
An interesting change of events, wouldn't you say? Though we should be careful not to bandwagon on this. Would you have even thought to have voted for DarthThienAn if it weren't for that post?
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia.
Date: 7/22/10 11:02
Cool, hope he doesn't think we're a mafia conspiracy
Chat soon.
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Original Message:
I sent him a PM as well:
No worries, I have the onus of casting a deciding vote as well...
Subversion is blue by the way. Just letting you know; do not vote for him. Between DarthThienAn and Chaoser, I still think DTA is a better target to lynch...
Be back soon.
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Original Message:
Thanks dude.
Pandain just unvoted because of a PM i sent him, so things are looking better for me.
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Original Message:
Don't worry. I'm still confident you won't be the one dying...
I have to go for now, but I will be back later on. Hang tight, my friend.
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Original Message:
Yeah, please vote for him if need be =/
I don't really think I have anything to lose by telling all if I'm literally about to die.
Will only do it though if its me for sure.
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Original Message:
If you flip blue, that's the truth enough... Innocents will still be lynched because of this. Don't think of martyring yourself at this point in the game.
I voted for abstain. Currently though I still think that DTA is top notch on the chopping block, but I will save you if necessary.
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Original Message:
If i'm sure I'm gonna die, I'm just gonna say I checked him night 1 and he's innocent.
That way when I flip blue they'll know I'm telling the truth, and at least won't lynch another innocent.
Have you voted yet? Looks like it may be me
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Original Message:
I haven't even thought about Amber this game... he keeps slipping below my radar.
I will do what I can to save you, if you are the Detective. I think it's a necessary risk I can take to keep you alive so you can check, but at this point if you stay alive you need to become part of the town. And by that I mean you've got to go to the highest source of confirmation we have so far, which is d3_crescentia, since he's pretty much confirmed town. I think between you and the other DT, to make sure that d3 is concretely town and not part of some elaborate Mafia ploy is to pass a check on him. If he turns up town-aligned, good for him. At that point, the risk is smaller than the reward since if d3_crescentia is the Godfather, that means that the other members of the Mafia team have nowhere to hide.
I'm just too suspicious of d3_crescentia still because after being almost ideally confirmed, he has been completely silent. I can just imagine the Mafia being ballsy enough to try this kind of ploy: "they won't suspect d3 being Mafia, since he put himself out there so quickly... don't even have to Godfather him."
This voting scenario is damn tricky right now. Any one vote can tip the balance, and it all comes down to who can post at the end if they really want to kill somebody.
If you do die though, make sure you have somebody to pass the information to. I would suggest youngminii, but he is under a lot of suspicion himself at the moment and I still think it's possible he could be the Godfather himself, and in that case it's an unwarranted risk if you tell it to him alone.
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Original Message:
Yeah, I meant check DTA. Although I'm not really convinced he's scum. Maybe someone a little more under the radar like Amber would be better.
Although now it looks like I'm top of the boot board again, fuck. I can't believe this is all over one stupid remark. Things are starting to look dire for me.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: I hope... Date: 7/22/10 12:52 yeah lets hope so. and hey, maybe we'll get lucky ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I think so, but at this point it's way more risky to vote for somebody else... Luckily, with this large of a game we can afford a lot of mislynches. We have two Veterans, two medics, two night killing powers, verifiable Detectives, and Mafia only have 2 KP instead of 3. At the very least, we will draw a lot of information from whomever is lynched... ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Hahaha, I know right? this is so intense. I really don't think any of the top 3 are mafia tho unfortunately. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Alright, that makes sense. I hope you can just trust in me then for as long as you will. Damn it, 18 to showtime. I'm so nervous right now... ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I think BC is maybe more likely to be the GF. Gonna check Amber. Feel its a waste checking u, i'll prolly be killed or lynched soon, dont want to waste any checks. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I'm worried about the BloodyC0bbler-Amber[LighT] dichotomy. I feel like one of them is Mafia, and probably a Godfather. It's hard to get a read on both because they both don't seem to be around the thread much. If you want to check me to make absolutely certain that you've got somebody to trust, go ahead. I have no special powers though, and it's probably better for you to try to hook up with other blues. Town needs to get organized... hopefully we can have another good night. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Heh, its funny I've been thinking the same thing I have been strongly, strongly considering doing a DT check on you. Mafia is funny like that. I am who I say I am though. And I think I'm checking Amber next, he smells scummy as hell. I'm really worried they've made him Godfather though. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: That I've made the right decision in trusting you...
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Check tonight.
Date: 7/23/10 09:35
think ill check BC rather
what do u think?
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Original Message:
Wait, you're checking Amber right?
I've been doing a bit of digging and Amber seems to be playing very inconspicuously. Doesn't add much to town, but does pop up to say "hey you guys are stupid" once in a while. BC is like this as well, but he's made the most pro-town post so far but it was ignored due to all the flaming, and when I brought it up again it was ignored as well.
Case in point, if you, as I do, believe that Amber is GF, do not contact him immediately. I have a belief that if Amber took the Godfather role, he has either chosen a blue role that seems out of the ordinary to lure Detectives into going "hey I checked you you were ___." Talk to people you trust first (I hope I am one of them) before bringing new people into your circle.
+ Show Spoiler +From: Subversion [ 799 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: Mafia just got more interesting...
Date: 7/23/10 15:42
awesome, sounds good.
sleep well ^_^
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Original Message:
Ahh my bad, I just went through PMs and checked--you did. I must have forgotten with the way Day 2 was going...
Sigh, I'm making one big post detailing the cases. Hopefully the town will follow it. I hope you and Pandain can get some work done this weekend... this is really bad timing for me in real life haha.
Will talk to you tomorrow, good sir.
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Original Message:
youngminii is town, checked him 1st check.
sorry thought i'd told u that already ^_^
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Original Message:
Ahh, sorry. I just had to keep cards close to the table until night was over you know? Now that we have a circle going though, I think we're fine. I told Pandain this, but I have guests coming over for the weekend that I have to entertain, so I won't be able to spend too much time here, but keep me informed alright? Ask him about the latest PM I sent him--it seems tree.hugger is dangerous.
Very suspicious of youngminii as well, since he tries to throw so much dirt on BC. I think there's a higher chance of BC being legitimate at this point and youngminii trying to stop a town circle than vice versa. Either way, we don't need to talk to him now unless you want to.
Got to go to bed in a few, guests in the morning.
At this point I realized part 2 and 3 are swapped. Sorry...
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Spoiler messed up. Editing in end spoiler.
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Screw it, too lazy. Better than spam, at any rate.
Also, Pandain why did you send me this message:
From: Pandain [ 767 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: please
Date: 7/29/10 15:18
please tell divinek you told me he was DT. Please?
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[QUOTE]On July 29 2010 15:16 youngminii wrote:
[QUOTE]On July 02 2010 07:57 Bill Murray wrote:
1. tree.hugger
2. brownbear
3. youngminii
4. chaoser
5. divinek
6. rastaban
7. Amber[LighT]
8. pandain
9. ~OpZ~
10. d3_crescentia
11. Misder
12. Pyrrholuxia
13. Tricode
14. protactinium
Out of this list, there are 4 people that I am absolutely sure are town aligned. That leaves 10 people left. By using this double lynch today, there's a 1/5 chance that we hit mafia. It is crucial that we hit at least 1 mafia today because that will lower their KP to 1. If we don't hit any scum today, then there will be 10 people left tomorrow with 3 Mafia and no double lynches. Miss two more times and it's lights out for town. So while it's not GG if we miss today, it doesn't bode well for us at all if they're allowed to keep using their 2 KP.
There's a good chance Pandain is mafia and so he's my leading suspect. I propose that we lynch chaoser since he's pretty much next on my list. I know I was wrong about Infundibulum but we don't really have anyone better to lynch (unless you can come up with one), and chaoser was one of Zeks's leading suspects too. Aaaaand with that:
##Vote Pandain
##Vote chaoser[/QUOTE]
hm i like you're list this is my modified one taking myself out of course(and the practically and absolutely confirmed greens) but you dont have to believe that, ill have to try to painfully read some of chaosers actual content posts
1. tree.hugger
2. brownbear
4. chaoser
8. pandain
9. ~OpZ~
11. Misder
12. Pyrrholuxia
14. protactinium
so yeah that's solid odds, im still really suspicious of misder. He still hasnt been saying shit, i might almost think he's a better candidate than chaoser, almost time to read his posts
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On July 29 2010 15:16 youngminii wrote:
There's a good chance Pandain is mafia and so he's my leading suspect. I propose that we lynch chaoser since he's pretty much next on my list. I know I was wrong about Infundibulum but we don't really have anyone better to lynch (unless you can come up with one), and chaoser was one of Zeks's leading suspects too. Aaaaand with that:
##Vote Pandain
##Vote chaoser
Man why not use my list? So colorful....
Bit angry right now :/.
Like seriously, what is wrong with letting people defend themselves? By the time I wake up I am becoming more and more sure I will be lynched without the chance to defend myself.
And youngmini, this means you do what I say and analyze.
dont just vote
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I'm more suspicious of tree.hugger than Misder. Misder was always kind of inactive but tree.hugger was a lot more active before. Then when all the real shit started happening he stopped posting so...
Chaoser comes first though.
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On July 29 2010 15:22 Protactinium wrote:Screw it, too lazy. Better than spam, at any rate. Also, Pandain why did you send me this message: Show nested quote +From: Pandain [ 767 posts | Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: please
Date: 7/29/10 15:18
please tell divinek you told me he was DT. Please?
On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard
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okay yeah this was his last post TWO days ago
On July 26 2010 16:51 Misder wrote:
##vote Double Lynch
##vote SouthRawrea
##vote Pandain
I'm back. And I read through the entire thread. It confused the heck out of me... my first mafia game wasn't this complicated. >.<
Here's my train of thought: SouthRawrea has been lying, and fake claiming. Easy enough. And when he is asked to post PMs, he retypes it. I think that he doesn't know what PM posting looks like, so in order to cover up his made up PMs, he says he retypes it.
Pandain has been lying in the PMs. To me, this suggests that he is mafia. Even when he is PMing, he doesn't follow the plans that are given. I don't know anything about PMing in a mafia game, but it seems to be all a mind game. And it seems like Pandain is confusing as many people as possible.
I don't feel like BC is mafia. If he is, we can prove it by lynching zeks. This is pretty flawed, but I just have a feeling (I could be completely wrong, in which...)
I also think that we should consider lynching rastaban. rastaban's dt is fake; we cannot confirm whether he is lying or that his dt is lying. We lynch rastaban to get this info.
##vote Misder pressure vote gogogo
he has a whopping 23 posts most of which say nothing at all
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On July 29 2010 15:22 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:16 youngminii wrote:
There's a good chance Pandain is mafia and so he's my leading suspect. I propose that we lynch chaoser since he's pretty much next on my list. I know I was wrong about Infundibulum but we don't really have anyone better to lynch (unless you can come up with one), and chaoser was one of Zeks's leading suspects too. Aaaaand with that:
##Vote Pandain
##Vote chaoser Man why not use my list? So colorful.... Bit angry right now :/. Like seriously, what is wrong with letting people defend themselves? By the time I wake up I am becoming more and more sure I will be lynched without the chance to defend myself. And youngmini, this means you do what I say and analyze. dont just vote
Pandain please just look at it from our perspective. The DT checked you and you flipped red. The odds of you being mafia is through the roof. There's no one else that's as 'confirmed' as you so you are by far the best possible lynch. The DT check trumps any argument you have to say, so you're better off using your time to help the town if you really are townie. This is playing to our win condition, you are playing to save yourself even though (I'll say it once again), you are the best possible lynch.
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On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard
Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims.
I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so.
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Original Message:
Since I know (well, was told) that Subversion was blue I'm more distrustful of tree.hugger then...?
Perhaps tree.hugger just has conviction from reads. I'm not the best at them.
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Original Message:
Idk, I just... it just seems odd that tree.hugger would be pushing so hard for everyone to vote subversion if he didn't know something else. Either he's mafia or he's dt. Thats my thoughts.
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Original Message:
He claimed DT to me during Day 2. Where did tree.hugger check?
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Original Message:
Is there any other reason you think Subversion is blue? I'm suspecting DT but at the same time it's possible your mafia and tree.hugger did check subversion. I'm just not sure.
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Original Message:
Soft blue claim in thread plus a direct claim to me. citi.zen pointed out the post around page 46 or so, but I've been talking with Subversion about it all day. If it's a lie, then it's a very good one, but I'm going to believe it. It's not too deleterious to the town if he's actually Mafia and lying, since he will be caught, but if he is genuine then we need to save our investment.
Will be back in about an hour; have some work to do.
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Original Message:
I understand if you can't tell but how do you know Subversion is blue?
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yeah seriously pandain stop wasting time trying to defend yourself and help us find our second and future lynches if you really want to help the town
there is no well in fucking hell a townie isnt voting for you
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On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so.
Lol wtf trade Mafia for Detective early game? Really?
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On July 29 2010 15:25 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:22 Pandain wrote:On July 29 2010 15:16 youngminii wrote:
There's a good chance Pandain is mafia and so he's my leading suspect. I propose that we lynch chaoser since he's pretty much next on my list. I know I was wrong about Infundibulum but we don't really have anyone better to lynch (unless you can come up with one), and chaoser was one of Zeks's leading suspects too. Aaaaand with that:
##Vote Pandain
##Vote chaoser Man why not use my list? So colorful.... Bit angry right now :/. Like seriously, what is wrong with letting people defend themselves? By the time I wake up I am becoming more and more sure I will be lynched without the chance to defend myself. And youngmini, this means you do what I say and analyze. dont just vote Pandain please just look at it from our perspective. The DT checked you and you flipped red. The odds of you being mafia is through the roof. There's no one else that's as 'confirmed' as you so you are by far the best possible lynch. The DT check trumps any argument you have to say, so you're better off using your time to help the town if you really are townie. This is playing to our win condition, you are playing to save yourself even though (I'll say it once again), you are the best possible lynch.
All I'm asking si the chance to defend myself. With that, I have to go to bed. Good night everyone
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On July 29 2010 15:26 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Since I know (well, was told) that Subversion was blue I'm more distrustful of tree.hugger then...?
Perhaps tree.hugger just has conviction from reads. I'm not the best at them.
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
Idk, I just... it just seems odd that tree.hugger would be pushing so hard for everyone to vote subversion if he didn't know something else. Either he's mafia or he's dt. Thats my thoughts.
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Original Message:
He claimed DT to me during Day 2. Where did tree.hugger check?
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Original Message:
Is there any other reason you think Subversion is blue? I'm suspecting DT but at the same time it's possible your mafia and tree.hugger did check subversion. I'm just not sure.
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Original Message:
Soft blue claim in thread plus a direct claim to me. citi.zen pointed out the post around page 46 or so, but I've been talking with Subversion about it all day. If it's a lie, then it's a very good one, but I'm going to believe it. It's not too deleterious to the town if he's actually Mafia and lying, since he will be caught, but if he is genuine then we need to save our investment.
Will be back in about an hour; have some work to do.
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Original Message:
I understand if you can't tell but how do you know Subversion is blue?
Where do I ever say in this that I even thought Divinek was a Detective? Please do not try to put words in my mouth, okay?
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On July 29 2010 15:27 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote:On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so. Lol wtf trade Mafia for Detective early game? Really?
Okay I can't ignore this. This is possibly the dirtiest post in the history of Mafia. I can't get over how you said you would trade a Detective for a Mafia as if that was a good thing. I don't know whether or not this is attributed to you simply not understanding the role of DT or you trying to excuse your actions as Mafia.
Either way, this post warrants a FoS.
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On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so.
i wasnt half way implying it i was straight up saying it, and no trading them early is terrible
it is fine as the game progresses and we have more info to go off of, but early game dt checks are the only solid info town has.
cause if you throw your first dt to the sharks, you have to god damn well pray mafia doesnt hit the next one with their two kp a night
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On July 29 2010 15:31 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:27 youngminii wrote:On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote:On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so. Lol wtf trade Mafia for Detective early game? Really? Okay I can't ignore this. This is possibly the dirtiest post in the history of Mafia. I can't get over how you said you would trade a Detective for a Mafia as if that was a good thing. I don't know whether or not this is attributed to you simply not understanding the role of DT or you trying to excuse your actions as Mafia. Either way, this post warrants a FoS.
Are you joking? You find Mafia, you get them lynched. Mafia thrive on information, and Detectives do not live forever. The chance of finding Mafia early on is slim; yes, the chance of Detectives getting hit is also a small number on top of a large number, but that's assuming you have good Detectives who can dodge snipings. When I learned to play Mafia, I was always drilled with the lesson that a Detective for a Mafia is good, and as I already said this setup is conducive to trading blues for reds. You already have the numbers. If somebody false claims Detective, like has been done this game, you can more easily counter-claim if there's one Detective, not two.
On July 29 2010 15:31 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 15:26 Protactinium wrote:On July 29 2010 15:16 Divinek wrote:
ohh pandain this i do REALLY want to know
proct told you sub is DT
why did proct tell you? no way in hell you were confirmed so either you're lying or proct is a retard Firstly, I needed his vote off of Subversion. He was thinking of voting Subversion at the time, and it is no good to have a Detective lynched. In doing so, I also thought of a gambit: If Subversion was Detective and Pandain was "let into the circle", if Subversion died then Pandain was at fault. Town, early on, should always be willing to trade a Detective for a Mafia, especially in this format where having one dead Detective means making it that much easier to sort through counter-claims. I am not mentally retarded, as you are half-way implying Divinek. Please do not call me so. i wasnt half way implying it i was straight up saying it, and no trading them early is terrible it is fine as the game progresses and we have more info to go off of, but early game dt checks are the only solid info town has. cause if you throw your first dt to the sharks, you have to god damn well pray mafia doesnt hit the next one with their two kp a night
In a normal setup Mafia would have 3 KP with 6 Mafia members. Factor that into your calculations when you think about how efficient this Mafia has been at sniping blue numbers, and even moreso when you factor in the fact that your Detective has fears he may have checked the Godfather Night 1.
You swap a Mafia member for a Detective night 2 in this setup. You get a confirmed townie, a Mafia member outed, and any possible "defense" happens on there. Besides, I was working to save the Detective from getting lynched. Let's not forget what happened Day 2 when Subversion's head was on the chopping block.
Think about it from the Mafia's perspective as well: that early in the game, one town member out of 24 is not worth trading for 1/6th of their team. Town circles form, but town circles are easily broken into.
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EPT
