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On May 11 2010 17:35 Scamp wrote:
I like to think that not reading the thread is still a valid excuse. I was probably being ultra-lazy but I didn't think to read the thread after receiving my first PM. I really expected to be PM-ed with the draft order when it happened. I suppose I never should have gotten that idea in the first place, but I don't think the OP ever had any information on when the draft would start either.
To me the signup phase is where I care the least. It's just a bunch of people signing up or making random comments. I might check the OP to see changes or who's signed up so far, but that's about as far as I'll go until I know the game has started.
There's a difference between not reading anything at all and not being sure and being lazy. Case in point: I don't think Darth read the opening post regarding the SK's win condition.
Anyway, I can see how you wouldn't want to hold people's hands and badger them with unnecessary things, but I think you should also consider that if you're using an unconventional format that it's a good idea to make sure people understand what's going on.
Uhh..I agree that the first day is usually the most random day, but it's also one of the most important for town. The first day is when town has to come up with a plan to, well, do stuff. Without a good plan, they are usually screwed.
Not reading the thread, even early game, is not a valid excuse. Seeing as how a draft number was due at midnight on the first night, wouldn't it be a safe assumption that the draft order would be posted shortly after that? Same with roles? The fact that people didn't PM Ace a role because they didn't know is really mind-boggling to me. Like he said, it's "PICK YOUR POWER" mafia. There's gotta be a time when you pick it right? It's mentioned in the PM he sent,
And I'm not a very good example to prove that people didn't read the OP or were lazy.
1) I was right o.O. The SK is a separate win party.
2) The ruling about town vs SK's win condition is very subtle. Looking through the OP again, the only way I would know about this win condition is if I read the starting town PM example which, considering I was mafia, why would I do? I assumed that it was as it is, but wasn't 100% sure.
3) It wasn't even relevant to me as a mafia player; to mafia, the SK is just another townsperson, with a super-role basically.
4) I read the SK's win condition and know that wins when he is the last man standing. I didn't read the town's win condition, which clarifies when the town wins.
And I think, before you sign up for any game, you should at least read the OP. We're not kids (which isn't to say we're all 18+...). We shouldn't need our hands held.
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>.
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On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote:
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>.
After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again. 
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On May 11 2010 18:36 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote:
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>. After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again.
I already admitted I had been lurking in this past game ^^.
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I WAS STRATEGICALLY LURKING.
kekeke.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Great game everyone, the last few days/nights were really fun to watch. Must say I was rooting for town though
My plan this game was to focus hard on hunting mafia. I really felt the only way I could lose was if the mafia beat me to it, so if I could eliminate the mafia I could cruise to victory. And if the mafia wasted a few shots on me, that just gives me more time to find them. If I got down to the last 5 or 6 people I felt I could win. There were better arguments for other players as SK, and eventually I could power the Floridian vote to win.
As far as the medic claim, I really just had other things on my mind, and didn't really think it through. Qatol had said for whoever got hit to claim, so I claimed and went on with my post(I think I made 3 big posts at that time). And Foolishness, you really jumped on my radar with all of your doubting I got medic saved. I couldn't figure out why you would doubt so strongly my claim of getting saved. You happened to be right that I was the SK, but for all the wrong reasons.
Thanks for hosting Ace, this was a great set-up. Hopefully you'll host another one of these soon. Good game to everyone
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On May 11 2010 16:09 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that. Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?)
I just meant that I did not expect you to make what I thought were a good deal of mistakes. Starting with openly telling people what roles to choose. Perhaps these were not mistakes in your view, but to me they were not exactly pro-town moves either. Ace, L and others seem to agree. The invention conversations were another issue. It just seemed like you were trying to control the flow of the game but doing so in a way which could be consistent with what the mafia wanted. So the "style" comment was mostly about consistency and what I thought were mistakes.
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I'll host this setup after all other games are concluded. Also next time I will give Mafia 2KP. ~1 week was around the time I wanted this game to last and with 18 players + modkills on 1 KP it happened. So next time I'll give scum 2KP.
Any other comments and suggestions about this setup are welcome.
So far Qatol advocates Mad Hatters which means Meth Man has to be taken out.
Inventor is right now looking like it will be scrapped.
Don't ask for Bus Drivers because I won't put those in ^_^
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On May 11 2010 14:05 Foolishness wrote:
That's interesting. I was planning to play the "somebody is lying about their role" card if I was alive in the late game, but the opportunity never came up. I tried to set up for it by hinting that I may not be the CompVig and stuff early on, hoping for an opportunity where I could claim to be a Jack or a cop or something. Never saw a chance to use it though (or at least a chance where the town wouldn't just kill me first).
I totally read that though. xP
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On May 11 2010 20:24 Ace wrote:
I'll host this setup after all other games are concluded. Also next time I will give Mafia 2KP. ~1 week was around the time I wanted this game to last and with 18 players + modkills on 1 KP it happened. So next time I'll give scum 2KP.
Any other comments and suggestions about this setup are welcome.
So far Qatol advocates Mad Hatters which means Meth Man has to be taken out.
Inventor is right now looking like it will be scrapped.
Don't ask for Bus Drivers because I won't put those in ^_^
Adding a traitor might be good fun.
I usually like hatters better than the meth-man, but in this set-up I am bit concerned that if the mafia got that role + have 2KP + some other KP role, the combination would be extremely imbalanced. Maybe the hatter could have a single bomb - but that is awful close to the vengeful player.
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On May 11 2010 20:24 Ace wrote:
I'll host this setup after all other games are concluded. Also next time I will give Mafia 2KP. ~1 week was around the time I wanted this game to last and with 18 players + modkills on 1 KP it happened. So next time I'll give scum 2KP.
Any other comments and suggestions about this setup are welcome.
So far Qatol advocates Mad Hatters which means Meth Man has to be taken out.
Inventor is right now looking like it will be scrapped.
Don't ask for Bus Drivers because I won't put those in ^_^
Meth Man puts the fear of God into the mafia. lolol.
I think if all of the town gets roles, 2KP is good. 1KP would have been tough had most of the town gotten roles like they should have.
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On May 11 2010 19:28 Radfield wrote:
As far as the medic claim, I really just had other things on my mind, and didn't really think it through.
The ridiculous thing is that you actually did have medic protection that night.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On May 11 2010 13:56 Foolishness wrote:
And gosh dang this is the first time I have ever been lynched in a TL mafia game >.<
I'll also say that playing red is incredibly stressful when you've been mafia 4 of the past 5 games @.@
Yeah Foolishness needs more town!
Except for you get killed night 1 in XXII 
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On May 11 2010 20:21 citi.zen wrote: Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 16:09 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that. Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?) I just meant that I did not expect you to make what I thought were a good deal of mistakes. Starting with openly telling people what roles to choose. Perhaps these were not mistakes in your view, but to me they were not exactly pro-town moves either. Ace, L and others seem to agree. The invention conversations were another issue. It just seemed like you were trying to control the flow of the game but doing so in a way which could be consistent with what the mafia wanted. So the "style" comment was mostly about consistency and what I thought were mistakes.
I see. Btw people are a bit more split on the controlling the first few roles than you might think. Incognito is telling me that he would have done what I did too. The only role I definitely shouldn't have done anything about was telling Scamp to take medic. That was a mistake. I still think that if we hadn't controlled CompVig the way we did, it would have come back to bite us, especially since the mafia got it. Regardless, I guess I can see what you were trying to say.
On May 11 2010 19:01 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 18:36 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 18:21 DarthThienAn wrote:
Bottom line, I think if you're going to play, you should at least read the thread regularly >_>. After a line like that, you are never going to get away with lurking in these games ever again. I already admitted I had been lurking in this past game ^^.
Yeah that's what I mean. You made that statement. People will just bring it up again out of nowhere and totally hose you with it in the future if you decide to lurk ever again. Either way, well played. You were definitely one of the better players that I didn't know anything about going into this game.
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On May 12 2010 01:40 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 20:21 citi.zen wrote: On May 11 2010 16:09 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that. Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?) I just meant that I did not expect you to make what I thought were a good deal of mistakes. Starting with openly telling people what roles to choose. Perhaps these were not mistakes in your view, but to me they were not exactly pro-town moves either. Ace, L and others seem to agree. The invention conversations were another issue. It just seemed like you were trying to control the flow of the game but doing so in a way which could be consistent with what the mafia wanted. So the "style" comment was mostly about consistency and what I thought were mistakes. I see. Btw people are a bit more split on the controlling the first few roles than you might think. Incognito is telling me that he would have done what I did too. The only role I definitely shouldn't have done anything about was telling Scamp to take medic. That was a mistake. I still think that if we hadn't controlled CompVig the way we did, it would have come back to bite us, especially since the mafia got it. Regardless, I guess I can see what you were trying to say.
Yes, I can see view as well.
As mentioned before, a big part of it is not just how you played but what I expected. It's the reputation burden of being a good, rational player - any slip-up will be analyzed much more closely. A good example of is micro mafia 1 - where I was convinced Ace was red for a relatively small divergence of opinion. Had that been Bill Murray I would not have thought twice about it. It's certainly a double standard - fairly or not.
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Err... why does this keep happening when I try to edit my posts..
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Oh I have another question. Early on, I was accused multiple times of having a pretty serious attitude in my posts (though in retrospect, the people who did that were mafia - Zona and Foolishness). Anyways, what part of the posts came off as having that attitude?
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I thought Foolishness had the attitude too - e.g. the whaa outsmarted post.
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On May 12 2010 04:18 citi.zen wrote:
I thought Foolishness had the attitude too - e.g. the whaa outsmarted post.
Yeah he definitely did. But he always acts like that. That post was nothing new from him. I was more surprised that I was being accused of having a serious attitude. Worse, it seemed to be a way for the mafia to try and chip away at my persuasiveness. So could anyone give me the breakdown so I can try to work on it?
EDIT: People seem to be confused about what I'm talking about, so I'll add in at least the ones referring to it from the archive that I can find. (Sorry I'm being a bit selfish with this here, but I'd really like to try and learn from my mistakes. If anyone else wants input on how they played this game, I'm certainly willing to try and help.)
+ Show Spoiler +On May 06 2010 08:43 Bill Murray wrote:
i am much more suspicious of you than scamp, and i am not suspicious of you at all really. the only reason i'm suspicious of him at all is from his stance towards sidesprang. the only reason i am suspicious of you at all is because of your attitude. On May 05 2010 11:55 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 11:14 Qatol wrote:On May 05 2010 10:39 Foolishness wrote:On May 05 2010 08:59 Korynne wrote:
Also flamewheel it's okay, apparently everyone on the internet is assumed male unless proven. xP
But seriously Foolishness if you are town, you should claim either compvig or not compvig. If I was mafia and I was lying, then I would already know you are not compvig. If I was mafia and telling the truth, and BM is mafia with me, then I would already know if you are compvig. If I was mafia and BM is town, then I doubt BM has the coordination to pull off another townie pretending to be inventor instead of him. If I was town, and mafia knows I'm town, then they know that I'm probably telling the truth, and they will know you and BM's role.
So telling us whether you are compvig or not compvig only benefits town.
So basically, if you claim compvig, everything's okay for now other than wtf why did you steal my role. If you claim not compvig then you and BM are under heavy scrutiny (or at least will be when I am revealed town). Have you not read anything Qatol or I have said about NOT claiming as claiming only helps the mafia? I said in my post, I will claim if it is necessary and bring impertinent information to the town. Right now me claiming does no good, so I'm not going to. You can be upset that you didn't get your role (if you're even telling the truth here), but that doesn't mean you have to force me to claim and help the mafia (but who am I kidding, you already did that yesterday, great job there btw). On May 05 2010 08:58 Qatol wrote:
Yay another person trying to "subtly" poke holes in my credibility. Having fun over there with your buddy ~OpZ~?
Why do you care so much about this fact? Why are you putting so much emphasis on YOUR credibility? Nobody other than yourself knows that you are innocent (unless someone checked you or something), and yet you expect us to just blindly believe everything you say? You're sounding more and more like BM as the game goes on. You're honestly expecting everyone in the town to just believe everything you say. Saying this is what is causing me to doubt your credibility, not anything else you say. Furthermore, my paragraph in which I said those things had NOTHING to do with your credibility. It was about people lying in general, and I just picked you as an example. There are huge benefits in this game to lying about what role you got or what numbers you picked, no matter what side you are on (I can clarify this point if need be). I'm trying to raise this point up because people are just believing anyone is saying. At this stage in the game, some things are not adding up right with what everyone is saying. Somebody has to be lying, somebody who's talking a lot probably. There are things left unsaid that need to be answered (what did BM's invention actually do?). Opz wants to kill me and you're calling us buddies? o.O Maybe I want credibility because I'm sick and tired of being ignored? (notice how early I tried to focus on a lynch on day 1 yet we still managed to have a no lynch? People didn't even really argue about it? They just focused on the roles and didn't even worry about the lynch.) (additionally, notice that nobody other than opz has even mentioned that analysis of johnnyspazz - how is the guy this slippery when he isn't even posting?) Anyways, I'm done with this. Just don't stop reading my posts. If you disagree with the logic in them, point it out like Zona did earlier. Dismissing them out of hand or saying that I am expecting you to just follow them does not help anyone. If you aren't persuaded, tell me why. Please clarify your point about why you would want to lie about your numbers if you're innocent. Yeah, after thinking about it, I don't think there's any reason to lie about your numbers, especially now that the draft's far over and we kinda have an idea of who's what. I can be sympathetic of you being tired of being ignored. However first day you were here early, then you just disappeared for a long while, which didn't help your cause (yeah I know you were sick, but if you hadn't been and had been around during this time we'd be in a much different position about you methinks). And contrary, I haven't dismissed any of your posts, more of I'm questioning your attitude. I'm not persuaded because it seems to me you're taking up a BM attitude here: "guys, it's obvious I'm greener than grass, you should listen to me". Frankly, it's not obvious to us (although your constant activity right now helps). That's why I kept mentioning of thinking things from everyone's perspective, and to think of all possibilities, however ridiculous. As for Jspazzz, I will agree on your point that he is filler-posting and has yet to make a contribution of his own. Looking through past games quickly, I'd say he's about as active as during BM's game (a little less maybe) and about as active as during flamewheel's game. Both times he was green. I'll need to look through more games for a better consensus on that. If nobody has any better idea on who the CompVig should kill then we should go with that, especially if Amnesia gets modkilled. On May 02 2010 05:08 Zona wrote:
I'm glad someone's stepping up with the first proposals for the town. Yet once again, in yet another game, I have to take issues with the blind spots in the plan, as well as the "I declare it, thus it must be so" tone and mindset.
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A quick answer from me: zona and foolish were reds knowing you were pro-town and... doing what reds do; bill doesn't count - he was just trying to act all "vet" and forgetting we all know him. The first issue is common (and sometimes compounded by over-zelous townies - hai!). Look at me playing in Ace's world war game - where all the reds tried to do was annoy me and make me look crazy, while caller somehow got everyone to believe literally ANYTHING. Same scenario in micro mafia 1. Personally I know I still have to improve in this area. It's... soft skills, if you will.
In this game you did quite well dealing with this I thought. Patience is the key.
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EPT
