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On May 11 2010 13:46 Ace wrote:
Masons are important in all setups. The ability to talk at night lets you get a read on players away from the thread and probe with no interference allowing you to form circles. I guess it depends on the Mason's own ability to get information but a good Mason is dangerous if Town aligned. I didn't give the town the other version of Mason's that get to choose 1 player to Mason to permanently during the game and getting their alignment because I thought that would be too broken.
Ah hmm ok. Then it matters who is playing the role then. I always thought pms were powerful, but not THAT powerful. I guess if you can choose who to talk to then it is good.
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On May 11 2010 14:01 Ace wrote:
@Foolishness: I had this weird argument in my head that town could have been screwed by. Something about "why isn't Foolisness dead yet if he's an innocent CV?" Which means one of the Scum isn't scared to get shot by accident, which means there's a Scum Bulletproof which means Falcynn/Korynne/Qatol/Citizen is lying about having no role.
I thought about that too. However, I had a different reason for deciding it was still possible: sheer KP. We were totally missing with our CompVig hits (notice: we didn't hit red with that once all game). The mafia like us whittling down the town quickly because mafia just don't win super long games without someone seriously screwing up. I figured the mafia were just gambling that we would continue to miss with the hit if Foolishness was innocent, though it DID point towards Foolishness being mafia. The only other reason I could think of was that they were worried that he had a medic on him, but that one seemed like a long shot.
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On May 11 2010 14:00 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. I recall you saying about a month ago that you were planning on hosting a TL mafia game after you were done with finals. Surely Qatol is not a man to go back on his word eh? 
Well blame d3/Korynne and Caller for hosting in my time window. Also, my summer school starts on the 18th when I thought it wouldn't start until June. I would only be able to host if the signups closed sometime around the end of the week/ the start of next week because the setup would take a while (I'm planning on doing a clues game the next time I host but those take a decent amount of work on the front end to figure out).
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As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me.
Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer.
In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list.
On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well.
Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you!
And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone.
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Yea Radfield was going absolutely insane. Kinda bad he kept leading to Mafia death but with no investigation roles he was almost on the way to winning then Day Vigi pops up ^_^
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On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone.
Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. On top of that, it felt to me like you were barely reading what I was posting. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread.
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On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread.
Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course.
On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that.
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On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that.
Hey whatever. You saw that you were being irrational soon enough that we could still win it and just before I gave up and let the town kill me to shut you up. 
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i wish i had read the rules and picked a cool role 
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On May 11 2010 15:06 johnnyspazz wrote:i wish i had read the rules and picked a cool role
You just needed to contribute more. I was so suspicious of you because you said you had been getting advice from Incognito and then you seemed to be just lurking/agreeing with others and not really posting original thoughts at all. Even if you die for it, at least then the town can go back and try to see if you were onto anything. Oh and don't post in other threads and not this one. Especially not other mafia games. It was just screaming "lurking mafia" to me.
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Oh Ace: a little suggestion if you do this again. There are a lot of players who didn't get a role just because they didn't pick anything at all. This was really really hard on the town. I suggest that if someone doesn't pick a role, you randomly roll a pick for them, just to give them a shot at getting something. At the very least, it gives them the information that the role was taken.
Also, I suggest Mad Hatter being included in the role list. It is too awesome of a role to be left out.
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On May 11 2010 15:02 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 14:52 Qatol wrote:On May 11 2010 14:44 citi.zen wrote:As I mentioned in the actual game, I spent a great deal of time deciding between who to kill at night. citizen hadn't claimed a role so I was paranoid he might be a veteran/bulletproof, so I decided against hitting him. Even if I had hit him, Qatol said he had a nice analysis of me, and I figure I'd have a better shot with citizen who wasn't about to post some big analysis of me. Yup, I did not roleclaim precisely because I though ambiguity would keep the mafia guessing a bit longer. In truth, I was an idiot and never submitted any picks to Ace. I didn't read the rules, instead assuming everyone got a role and I'd just get what's left from the role list. On May 11 2010 13:47 Qatol wrote:
Either way, it was fun. I probably won't play again for a while (defending myself for that long was just exhausting and totally sapped my will to play - that post to citi.zen about being pissed off was 100% serious) but it will fun to see a few of the players from this game develop. There were a few players who played very well. Interesting things happen when you put pressure on people: some make mistakes, others are very eager to take sides, etc. In general lively conversation is good, and I've never been afraid to stir things up a bit. Your plans always seemed like a mix of genius with something evil, so figured I'd start with you! And Radfield - good job man. Up to that medic protection claim you did better than anyone. Yeah but there is a point where pretty much anyone will slip up at least a little. You were nitpicking pretty small stuff for literally days on end. I was playing as much pro-town as I possibly could and you were still finding little things to yell at me about. I agree that conversations are a good thing, but I didn't like your method for provoking it very much. I agree that there were totally loopholes in my plans that I could have been exploiting (like if I were mafia, the numbers theory could have been used to help the mafia instead of hurting them), but I put myself into the spotlight far too readily and I'd like to think I didn't really break down too much. After a while, you are just derailing the thread. Agreed - when you are offering a lot it's impossible not to slip here and there. Then again, with good players, these are exactly the sort of things you need to watch out for. You, Ace, Incognito, must always seem pro-town, even if you are red - you chose the way of the Jedi. Someone like L or Caller use the dark side of the force and play a different style altogether - a dose of nonsense is par for the course. On my side though, a big problem this time around was that I did not have enough time to carefully build my arguments / think the big picture through, so I can see how it was frustrating arguing with me. Sorry for that.
Oh speaking of which, what style exactly did you think was Qatol-like? You kept accusing me of not acting like myself. (Btw, that is the hardest accusation in the WORLD to refute. How do you prove that you are playing like yourself?)
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I think next time it'd be a good idea to PM people and say "Hey, this is a notice that the game has started and you have one day to draft a role." I'm so used to signing up and then ignoring the thread until I get my role PM. Good thing I checked the thread an hour before the deadline, although all I protected this game was a Serial Killer. Made the mafia use a daykill on an SK, though. So silver lining.
I really don't see how town was lucky the mafia killed Rad. He was clearly the person the town was looking toward for leadership at the time. That's generally why neutral parties don't go all-out on the scumhunting. On the other hand, you can't just play like a typical SK and not expect to be looked into for it.
Yay town win!
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Well I think not PMing people was good in retrospect. If you don't read the thread to see how the game works why should I hold your hand?
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On May 11 2010 16:15 Scamp wrote:
I think next time it'd be a good idea to PM people and say "Hey, this is a notice that the game has started and you have one day to draft a role." I'm so used to signing up and then ignoring the thread until I get my role PM. Good thing I checked the thread an hour before the deadline, although all I protected this game was a Serial Killer. Made the mafia use a daykill on an SK, though. So silver lining.
I really don't see how town was lucky the mafia killed Rad. He was clearly the person the town was looking toward for leadership at the time. That's generally why neutral parties don't go all-out on the scumhunting. On the other hand, you can't just play like a typical SK and not expect to be looked into for it.
Yay town win!
He would've killed them all and won. lol, I think SK is a separate win party?
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On May 11 2010 16:34 Ace wrote:Well I think not PMing people was good in retrospect. If you don't read the thread to see how the game works why should I hold your hand?
Because it makes the problem that some town players are really bad about keeping track of the thread even worse. Now not only are they screwing up their side by being generally useless in the thread, but they have nothing to offer even from blue roles because they didn't read the thread early on. Also, there seem to have been quite a lot of people confused this game. Caller, citi.zen, Amnesia, Falcynn messed it up; OpZ and Scamp almost messed it up. That's kinda a big deal for the town. 1/3 of our players didn't even have a shot at a role and it was almost closer to half.
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I mean looking at the title of the game that should have been an obvious clue.
Then you see the whole deal about draft order...what else would people be doing in a draft? :D
I know it sucks that a lot of the town aligned players didn't read the game but it's unfair for those that took the time to read the thread. There was even discussion about picks for 24 hours after order was revealed so not reading the thread isn't a valid excuse. Everyone had at least 48 hours to get it right.
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On May 11 2010 17:03 Ace wrote:
I mean looking at the title of the game that should have been an obvious clue.
Then you see the whole deal about draft order...what else would people be doing in a draft? :D
I know it sucks that a lot of the town aligned players didn't read the game but it's unfair for those that took the time to read the thread. There was even discussion about picks for 24 hours after order was revealed so not reading the thread isn't a valid excuse. Everyone had at least 48 hours to get it right.
Yeah I guess you're right. You even mentioned it again in the role PM. Not that much more you could have done. I think I'm just grumpy that so many people still managed to screw it up or at least come close.
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I like to think that not reading the thread is still a valid excuse. I was probably being ultra-lazy but I didn't think to read the thread after receiving my first PM. I really expected to be PM-ed with the draft order when it happened. I suppose I never should have gotten that idea in the first place, but I don't think the OP ever had any information on when the draft would start either.
To me the signup phase is where I care the least. It's just a bunch of people signing up or making random comments. I might check the OP to see changes or who's signed up so far, but that's about as far as I'll go until I know the game has started.
There's a difference between not reading anything at all and not being sure and being lazy. Case in point: I don't think Darth read the opening post regarding the SK's win condition.
Anyway, I can see how you wouldn't want to hold people's hands and badger them with unnecessary things, but I think you should also consider that if you're using an unconventional format that it's a good idea to make sure people understand what's going on.
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EPT
