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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:19 Scamp wrote:
Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now.
Because we have a better target who gives us more info, and because no matter if Foolishness is town or mafia aligned, he HAS to do what we say or we lynch him. Alive, he gives us a double lynch each day, no matter his alignment. At this point it's better to have a mafia CV who's following town, then a dead mafia.
At some point we may need to lynch him, but certainly not yet.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor
# Foolishness comp vig
# Korynne VANILLA
# Falcynn VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes ROLE
# ~Opz~ VANILLA
# d3_crescentia MEDIC
# Caller VANILLA
# sidesprang ?
# Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight?
Hold on Jeejee, you're claiming VANILLA?? If so, what did you try to pick? Because if you didn't pick copycat, and it would be strange for you to go for CompVig or Inventor, then you must have picked Hobbes' role.
Despite my previous posts, I'm not in favor of outing all the roles. But this is too juicy because we can catch one of Jeejee or Hobbes in a lie possibly.
If Jeejee claims what he picked, and Hobbes reveals that he doesn't have that role, then one of them is lying, and we just found another mafia(or SK perhaps, either is good). And Jeejee if you claim to have picked Inventor or Compvig, I would find it highly suspicious, given all our plans of taking those two roles first, and you picking 11th.
So Jeejee, WHAT ROLE DID YOU TRY FOR??? and Hobbes, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH???
We can find out some info here folks.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
This is all in addition to Jeejee's other somewhat shady posting that Bill Murray alluded to earlier. The only thing in JeeJee's favor right now is that he picked the same number as Sidesprang, which makes it unlikely for them to both be mafia. If Sidesprang flops green, then barring further info, I propose we lynch JeeJee as well. Just another reason to DayVig Sidesprang, so we can focus our CompVig shot better.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:45 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor
# Foolishness comp vig
# Korynne VANILLA
# Falcynn VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes ROLE
# ~Opz~ VANILLA
# d3_crescentia MEDIC
# Caller VANILLA
# sidesprang ?
# Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in hereeither that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight? OK, so someone who declared vanilla lied and took the role you had chosen. I continue to like Korynne as a red, but Could be anyone really. Caller is not offering anything, as usual - I would be comfortable asking Foolishness to hit him.
Caller is Dead.
Korynne claimed that either Foolishness or BM took CompVig, which is very risky if she's lying, as there was a decent chance that neither of them took it.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:47 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:40 Radfield wrote:On May 04 2010 23:30 JeeJee wrote:now that we know this.. # Bill Murray inventor
# Foolishness comp vig
# Korynne VANILLA
# Falcynn VANILLA
# [NyC]HoBbes ROLE
# ~Opz~ VANILLA
# d3_crescentia MEDIC
# Caller VANILLA
# sidesprang ?
# Qatol VANILLA
let me add a piece of it as well # JeeJee VANILLA i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here either that or hobbes is mafia for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it. then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here so foolishness, who are you gonna hit tonight? Hold on Jeejee, you're claiming VANILLA?? If so, what did you try to pick? Because if you didn't pick copycat, and it would be strange for you to go for CompVig or Inventor, then you must have picked Hobbes' role. Despite my previous posts, I'm not in favor of outing all the roles. But this is too juicy because we can catch one of Jeejee or Hobbes in a lie possibly. If Jeejee claims what he picked, and Hobbes reveals that he doesn't have that role, then one of them is lying, and we just found another mafia(or SK perhaps, either is good). And Jeejee if you claim to have picked Inventor or Compvig, I would find it highly suspicious, given all our plans of taking those two roles first, and you picking 11th. So Jeejee, WHAT ROLE DID YOU TRY FOR??? and Hobbes, IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH??? We can find out some info here folks. Or sidersprang took it and Qatol lied. Or another vanilla role claimant lied.
Yes, but all of these options lead us back towards the same people. Finding out that someone has lied is great. And if someone HAS lied, then Jeejee telling us what role he went for will tell us what the liars role is. Which means a role cop will be able to deduce alignment.
If we find out JeeJee went for the Jack, and that Hobbes is not the Jack, then we know the liar IS the Jack and that the mafia has the Jack. Or that Jeejee is the Jack. Because it's unlikely Jeejee will claim a role that he doesn't have, because someone below him might have it, and he would be outed. But this all first depends on what Hobbes says, and what color Sidesprang flops.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:54 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 23:46 Radfield wrote:
This is all in addition to Jeejee's other somewhat shady posting that Bill Murray alluded to earlier. The only thing in JeeJee's favor right now is that he picked the same number as Sidesprang, which makes it unlikely for them to both be mafia. If Sidesprang flops green, then barring further info, I propose we lynch JeeJee as well. Just another reason to DayVig Sidesprang, so we can focus our CompVig shot better.
for the record, caller, sidesprang, qatol and myself numbers were the same would be pretty friggin' stupid for mafia to do this, n'est pas?
Of course it would, that's why I pointed that out....
Mind you no one is completely cleared just because they share a number with a mafia. It's not all that difficult a piece of double-think to just pick the same number.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:58 citi.zen wrote:
Ok, we have 4 vanilla role claimants + Hobbes + sidersprang, one of which lied if JeeJee is telling the truth.
We should lynch sidersprang, as discussed. I'd like to keep Qatol around. Hitting Hobbes is risky if he has a good role and is pro-town. Leaving us with Korynne, Falcynn and ~Opz~ to use the compulsive vigilante hit on.
I will vote to compulsive vig hit Korynne out of that group.
And no, I still don't like using he day vig. No reason to speed up the killing on poor information. Let's wait for the lynch flop and save the day vig hit for a time we have more info.
I agree in theory, except for if Hobbes is the DayVig. The medic is going to protect either BM or Foolishness, which leaves Hobbes hanging as an exceptionally juicy target, with his 'fun role'. Now with all the discussion around this, there is the possibiliy of the medic protecting hobbes, so the mafia might not hit him after all. Around and around we go....
I still think we should use the DayVig hit, it's very useful right now, and thats as good as we can ask. Either we get a mafia, or we hit a townie and have very good targets for our lynch + CompVig.
If we don't use the DayVig hit, what do we learn from hitting Korynne? If she flops vanilla town it means that Foolishness is for sure the CV. If she flops mafia with a special power(not CV) it means foolishness is almost certainly mafia. Because she would never claim to have tried to get CV without knowing for sure that the CV was taken in front of her.
BUT! It would be very unlikely for the mafia to double up numbers on 1, 1. And that's exactly what would have happened for Korynne and Foolishness to both be mafia. For this reason, I don't think Korynne is mafia, as the story doesn't quite fit.
I'd like to hear from Jeejee about his role, and hobbes confirming or denying, before deciding on the CompVig hit
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Wow Opz, I thought I was being clear in my posts, but obviously not. Did you skim read? Also, yes I try hard. I'm not sure why people sign-up if they're going to half-ass it.
You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason.
Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 01:20 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 01:01 Radfield wrote:
Wow Opz, I thought I was being clear in my posts, but obviously not. Did you skim read? Also, yes I try hard. I'm not sure why people sign-up if they're going to half-ass it.
You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason.
Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who? The issue JeeJee brought up should be addressed: what if we lynch sidersprang and he turns out pro-town and copycat? Then we have... no leads and a dead medic. Everyone else could be telling the truth, no?
If he did that then it was awfully anti-town. Qatol stated he was going for the copy-cat, why would another town player swipe it right before him instead of grabbing another useful role? It doesn't make any sense.
But yeah, if he flops town aligned copy-cat that sucks, but he deserves it for screwing over the town plan.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 02:08 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 01:30 Radfield wrote:On May 05 2010 01:20 citi.zen wrote:On May 05 2010 01:01 Radfield wrote:
Wow Opz, I thought I was being clear in my posts, but obviously not. Did you skim read? Also, yes I try hard. I'm not sure why people sign-up if they're going to half-ass it.
You keep stating things as if I haven't given a clear reason for each of the things I put forward. I explained why I left Korynne off the list, I specifically said we should NOT use our CV hit on Qatol, I made a good case for Sidesprang which you casually brushed aside because..... well, no reason.
Don't get all defensive about me putting your name out there, try to see why I put it out there. If Sidesprang flops green SOMEONE IS LYING. Surely you agree that we should try to figure out who? The issue JeeJee brought up should be addressed: what if we lynch sidersprang and he turns out pro-town and copycat? Then we have... no leads and a dead medic. Everyone else could be telling the truth, no? If he did that then it was awfully anti-town. Qatol stated he was going for the copy-cat, why would another town player swipe it right before him instead of grabbing another useful role? It doesn't make any sense. But yeah, if he flops town aligned copy-cat that sucks, but he deserves it for screwing over the town plan. I don't care if "deserves it". Every single game there are bad town-aligned players who screw their team over, and it's too many of them to lynch the lot of them. That's just a sad fact. What matters is what are our best options going forward. I like your reasoning a lot, which is why I voted for him. But can we do better?
True enough, deserves is the wrong way to put it. More just that he's forced our hand.
I'm not sure if we can do better for now. But we need to decide on a CompVig hit as well. Without knowing how Sidespring will flip, I don't really have any suggestions, but hopefully someone else will.
@~opz~ I agree that lynching/hitting Qatol is not warranted. I don't think anyone thinks that's a good idea yet. When I mentioned him before, it was only for if Sidesprang turned out town and not CopyCat.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 05:20 Bill Murray wrote:Quoting Zona:Show nested quote +"But you know what? If town members lie about their roles - that's good, too. This is the ONLY aspect in which I think it's good for town members to lie - every other type of lie by town members usually muddles the picture and is detrimental to the town, but lying about your role - the thing that mafia doesn't know and wants to know - that's useful for the town.
You are trying to pin down which of the people at Qatol's position in the draft order and above is lying about their role - but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia! I reiterate - if you catch someone lying about almost everything else in the game, that might be a sign of mafia - but lying about your role is one thing town members likely SHOULD DO! I wish that a lot of the "vanilla" claims that have come out really are lies! But I have a bad feeling they aren't, due to the way things have played out. he's advocating not lynching liars, which is scummy as fuck people who have been hunting liars (like radfield) increase town cred a lot when he says "but identifying liars (about roles) does NOT identify mafia!" he is just trying to confuse you.
Honestly, I think Zona has a good point. If I drafted high up, and got a sweet role, there is a good chance I might lie about it, particularly claiming Vanilla.
But I still think that the copy-cat leads us to a mafia, for all the reasons I laid out before. I also think it likely that Sidesprang is the copy-cat, again for the reasons I previously posted.
However, as far as what happens after Sidesprang, I'm not so sure.
And Zona, I'm definitely not advocating a mass roleclaim in any form. Apart from the Jeejee and Hobbes thing, which in retrospect doesn't look as promising as I thought at the time, I haven't asked for anyone to roleclaim. I only compiled the list of people who had already roleclaimed.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 05:36 Bill Murray wrote:
radfield, the copycat is now a weak doctor, it really doesn't matter.
I'm not hunting for the copycat or the weak doctor, I'm hunting for scum, regardless of role. I'm not sure where else we can start.
I'm realizing now that Qatol could have lied about being Vanilla at the start to protect himself, in which case all my logic flies out the window. It also means Sidesprang could be one of our few townies with a sweet role... ugh.
I suppose if that is the case Qatol could let us know before we lynch him(...I know, again with the roleclaims....)
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Wait a minute, how do we tell the difference between:
Hit player is mafia: doctor does nothing, 1 red dies, OR doctor protects, no one dies, we know the lynch target is mafia.
and
Hit player is town: no one dies.
Both outcomes no one dies.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Korynne is a girl folks, or at the very least, has roleclaimed girl 
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
In my eyes, it would be very strange for picks 1-5 to take copy cat. They can already take a good role, the only reason to take copy cat would be to deny Qatol a role.
7 and 8 are dead.
Qatol has cleared up his position in his recent novel, I'm inclined to believe him.
For now this leaves Sidesprang(9) and Opz(6). Opz at 6 is on that bubble of not making much sense to pick CC, but he might have. He also claims he went for CompVig, but of course his claim doesn't mean much for now.
Sidesprang, you happen to be at the perfect spot for taking CopyCat.
On another note. I hadn't realized we can vote on the CV hits at night. But of course this makes perfect sense and is what we should be doing.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
A quick off topic post: At what point does Amnesia get modkilled?? How long can one go without posting? He's been active on other parts of the site, but has either given up on the game or is hardcore lurking.
Also, an invention that keeps evil-doers away would be good to give out. Like the night-light that Opz suggested. It doesn't protect against those who are pure at heart etc. Better than armor in that it stops serial killer hits, and doesn't stop town aligned hits.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
We only have a few more hours till the end of the day. Let try to get enough votes in to get a lynch this time.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Bam! I fucking knew it!
As far as our Compvig hit, I'm fine with voting Johnnyspazz, but I'm not necessarily sold that he is the best target. He has claimed Vanilla, which means if we're wrong we probably don't lose much. He could have lied about being Vanilla, but in this case I doubt he did.
Foolishness, I understand you are hesitant to roleclaim, but realize this: If you are NOT the CV, then Korynne (or BM) almost certainly is, and is likely mafia as well. It is very important that we know who the CV is, so that we can control him/her. You may be worried that if you roleclaim you'll become a target for the mafia. But guess what? You already ARE a target for the mafia, and you're likely target number 1. You might be worried that if you roleclaim that you would get roleblocked. But if the mafia have the roleblocker you're going to get roleblocked anyways, because the mafia already likely assume or know that you're the CV. You might be worried about outing your role, but all you have to do is say if you are NOT the CV, you don't have to claim any further. We're all working under the assumption anyways that you are the CV, so confirming it doesn't change anything except for giving the town additional info. You might think this gives the mafia additional info as well, but I don't think so. If Korynne is mafia she already knows the truth, and if Korynne is not mafia, then the mafia have no reason not to believe her claim(it doesn't make sense for her to say what she said if she's a townie. There are reasons to lie, but that's not one of them)
At this point it seems very, very likely you are the CV. If you weren't the CV then you would quickly see that Korynne is lying and want to get that in the open.
On another note, I highly doubt the roleblocker is in the game. Assuming people are telling the truth about vanilla (somewhat likely that at least Korynne, Opz and Qatol are) then the only people with roles are picks 1, 2, 5 (hobbes), and then pick 12, DarthTheinAn. I highly doubt that hobbes is the RB and it seems equally unlikely that someone after pick 10 would go for it. It's possbile that Falcynn took it and is lying about not sending in a role. I doubt JeeJee would have taken it at pick #11, and I'm still trying to make sense of his earlier post.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 17:52 Bill Murray wrote:
i need multiple medics to protect me, as foolishness will probably try to night kill me tonight to and stack
Bill, we only have max one medic. Plus the single save from the Joat, which may or may not even be in the game.
If the CV(foolishness) doesn't follow the town plan, then he's gonna get lynched. So at least your death will not be a total loss. This also means that unless the mafia and SK randomly double up on you, you're probably ok with protection from 1 medic(which is good because it's all we've got).
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 05 2010 18:58 Bill Murray wrote:
im the inventor radfield how can you even doubt that
medics protect me
I don't doubt it. But Foolishness seems to, so I was just trying to be thorough.
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