World at War Mafia - Page 108

On April 09 2010 08:26 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Personally, I'm wondering where the fuck LMNOP disappeared to...discussing it with his mafia brothers?

On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
With ~OpZ~ and Abenson changing his opinion, JeeJee seems to be most detailed post arguing for citizen lynch. Let me rip his arguments to shreds.

On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
Argument about vote counts
This argument also assumes that entire Mafia players chose to vote for one person three consecutive days. Seriously? I thought the most basic assumption about Mafia voting pattern was that they would try to avoid suspicion by spreading their votes as much as possible. Yes, they were all bandwagon votes, but RoL and Xelin bandwagon had so much steam going into it there was little reason for Mafia to all-in every time. Overall his repeated statement that four of us voted for same person over and over again is WIFOM.

In Mafia, WIFOM arguments are often a Scum tactic used to distract the Town. The scum will make an unusual play at night, which would lead to a situation that would 'clear' them (because players will think, "Why would a scum do that?"). These arguments are sometimes used by Newbies and should be avoided in favor of clearer arguments.

On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
Another specific flaw I found; JeeJee states that four of us created wagon against Nikon when only alternative lynch target was Caller- only for citizen and me to start Caller bandwagon very next day. What? If Caller also is Townie, why wouldn't we have followed the bandwagon suggested by confirmed Townie? Remember you said we are not following the bandwagon that has already formed, but started it. There must be motive for Mafia to start the bandwagon that goes against the argument of confirmed Townie, and therefore draw suspicion later on. If both Nikon and Caller is Townie, it is absolutely illogical for Mafia to continue their bandwagon against Nikon and Caller even when confirmed Townie is strongly arguing for alternative lynch target.

On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
Argument against abilities
If Mafia - Caller in this case because he is certainly Mafia if citizen is innocent - intended to start bandwagon against citizen, they might easily could have chosen to keep their nuke-stealer in check to further incriminate him. Absense of nuke steal proves nothing.

I cannot even understand what you are arguing here. Citizen had his nuke stolen (because immobile three nukes are perfect nuke-stealer target), but cannot say it publicly because it proves his ability cannot NK the people visiting him? Um... didn't we get that verified when Caller claimed to have checked him? I feel like I did not completely understand your point here, so clarification is welcome.

On April 09 2010 06:28 haster27 wrote:
Argument against setup
"all we know is that there isn't five mafia": your entire argument hinges on this argument being true. I can only see you thinking Caller/~OpZ~/Abenson/d3/yourself are Townies, because otherwise I cannot see why you would make such statement with confidence. Let me state this means nothing. If Caller is Mafia he and d3_crescentia are no longer confirmed Townie. If so it is still possible there are five Mafia present in the game. Also, you berate laaan for never "[considering] the point that there might not be four mafia, but less", but did anyone ever express an opinion that there might be less than three Mafia previous to your post?

On April 09 2010 08:36 JeeJee wrote:


read closer. if citizen is townie (and apparently he gave up on claiming he has anything other than townie powers at this point), his 3 nukes are lying there waiting to be taken. why weren't they?

On April 09 2010 06:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Why wouldn't citizens nukes have been stolen? Because the mafia take him to be PGO. Caller claims the only person that mafia can't NK without dying is scum because his team can't NK him. So can we lynch Caller and get on with this game now?

[Your] fourth point are mainly acceptable, but I cannot believe you are seriously sticking to inconsistencies argument. Your second and fourth point becomes absolutely obsolete if we assume citizen is being truthful. I mean, you are free to assume paranoid gun owner must have NK counter ability, but unless you are able to verify that claim you have no right to treat citizen's ability as false. This is lylo situation- are you seriously willing to vote citizen over Caller just because of this single assumption?

On April 09 2010 06:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:
Why wouldn't citizens nukes have been stolen? Because the mafia take him to be PGO. Caller claims the only person that mafia can't NK without dying is scum because his team can't NK him. So can we lynch Caller and get on with this game now?

[Your] fourth point are mainly acceptable, but I cannot believe you are seriously sticking to inconsistencies argument. Your second and fourth point becomes absolutely obsolete if we assume citizen is being truthful. I mean, you are free to assume paranoid gun owner must have NK counter ability, but unless you are able to verify that claim you have no right to treat citizen's ability as false. This is lylo situation- are you seriously willing to vote citizen over Caller just because of this single assumption?

On April 09 2010 09:11 ~OpZ~ wrote:
JeeJee...The argument isn't the point. Ignore my vote for Caller. Ignore Abensons. I'm not discussing them. I've justified my intentions to him. Your claim rests on saying Infund/Citizen lied about their claims. Mine rests on Caller lying again.

You say infund/citizen lied multiple times? Caller has lied too.

For instance "Oh hai I'm israeli Cop, Meeples scum"

"Nah sike, I'm JAPAN"

"I don't have anyway of protecting myself from nukes!"

Honestly, Caller's lied about everything at least once. Country, Role, Anti-nukes. Role, MAYBE by a slight possibility he only INADVERTENTLY lied.

On April 09 2010 09:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:


seriously, this is getting juicy

On April 09 2010 09:25 haster27 wrote:
First, you are ignoring my first paragraph that Mafia could have tried to frame more evidence against him, but I'll accept that this is a point that cannot be verified.

Second,

On April 09 2010 09:00 ~OpZ~ wrote:
LMNOP are you missing the fact that you argued COMPLETELY against ONLY citizen and not caller?

You didn't argue WITH ANYONE for not voting, despite you thinking the WHOLE TOWN should be thinking. This is not what you do. I argued all day, and extended the day MULTIPLE times, and set up a decent idea yesterday. I tried to pull votes, I bashed Caller all day yesterday. Even suggested Nikon was third party.
And then next, IF you KNEW as you claim I was going to extend the day, THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN why casting your vote mattered? There is no lynch til all nukes land, and according to you, you knew they wouldn't be landing anytime soon. Not like it would matter.
and AGAIN
Do you not realize that why I changed my vote doesn't matter? I've done explained IF I DIDN'T THE DAY WOULD HAVE ENDED. You pointed this out. I've pointed this out. You seem to be okay with the day not being over, but upset about me changing my vote? Because if I didn't then Citizen would have been lynched by his own hand? Because I wanted more discussion? Because you didn't vote? Because I think Caller is mafia? Because I'm stupid? Because I'm a jack ass? TAKE A REASON.

Stop pointing your dirty red fingers at me.

On April 09 2010 09:29 JeeJee wrote:


Oh I don't deny caller's claim is a clusterfuck of a situation in and of itself. I have stated this multiple times myself. But here's why I choose citizen over caller: citizen lied about his actual ROLE, whereas caller lied about his country and antinuke arsenal. As far as I know, what country you are has no bearing on anything, and lying about not having antinukes is a typical selfish move you can expect from any player of any alignment on day 1. There's much to be gained and nothing to be lost.

On the other hand, saying you're X role, but actually have Y powers, well, that makes sense in very few scenarios. For example claiming triggerhappy when you're actually DT will deter mafia from hitting you. Check. Claiming PGO when you're actually supposed to be a townie makes no sense. But, here's a scenario that does make sense: claiming PGO when you're actually mafia, thus deterring DTs from visiting you.

btw you mentioned caller has lied about his role. where was this? if this is actually true (i don't recall this off the top of my head but am ctrl+f'ing the thread right after this post) i may as well reconsider the whole thing because the one thing i held to so far is that at least caller hasn't lied about his actual role.

On April 09 2010 09:36 ~OpZ~ wrote:

God thank you for re-posting this.

JeeJee, of COURSE caller would claim AGAINST THE PGO. They can't Kill him AND win in one move.

Why not just lynch him, because his role CANT BE VERIFIED. If you're scum, why not attack the one person who has the least evidence supporting him, while still having virtually NO EVIDENCE against him either. Although I did attack infund a while back....maybe someone should resurrect those posts....lol

Also why in the world would you check infund out of all the suspects? Since you are so convinced that his role meant automatic retaliation, you should have avoided him at all costs and checked me like ~OpZ~ suggested. Look, everyone agreed that Mafia and Townie numbers were getting dangerously close, and keeping even one Townie alive was important. So why would you ignore recommendation from confirmed Townie and on your own make a decision that could have costed your life? If infund indeed have been paranoid gun owner (Townie), you (Townie Detective) would have been killed. Thus your took unnecessary action that would have placed the Town in worse position.

On April 09 2010 09:41 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Having a restriction on when you can launch your nukes isn't being an actual townie. That's having a role that stops you from launching your nukes unless your nuked. Big difference between townies. Caller's logic is flawed on Iaaan's role. Nikon had a role related to nukes. I image our "One Shot Day Doc" had a role that related to nukes. RoL had a role that was related to nukes.

And again, WHY WOULD CITIZEN/infund PUBLICLY argue they kill the person who comes to them at night. I wouldn't say that.

The reason I didn't cast a vote? Because we don't know if mafia have an anti-nuke or not still

Seriously, Why the fuck are you guys casting votes when we have no idea if there's a mafia anti-nuke out there? If there's a majority on a townie, that's a fucking game over right there if mafia launch an anti-nuke. Think.

This is why I'm upset. The fact that you railed against Caller yesterday, suddenly reversed your opinion in an almost 180 degrees today when Caller does his claim, then do another 180 for no apparent reason at the very last fucking second in order to get a majority on Caller. I'm finding your Mason claim especially suspicious now.