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Townies, pay attention: this is a hugely important post going forward, we need explanations here. Patiently read and think about it for now, let's not cover it with mounds of spam.
On March 17 2010 03:49 Zona wrote:
I must state that I agree a lot with Versatile on BC's performance (yet disagree that BC needs to be lynched quickly). Being elected is a privilege and responsibility, not entitlement and right, and you're not living up to the responsibility of being mayor - by being more active, acknowledging and responding to the town, and accusing and driving discussion. Actually, in future games, because of your lack of performance in this game, I will probably not vote for you in elections.
I want the town to think very much about BC/L working together. So much so that L is elaborating on BC's statements, and BC does nothing to refute L's elaborations. If they can prove themselves as town, we're in amazing shape. I am curious how they came to trust each other though. A DT/mayor (if that's what BC actually is) definitely needs to be very sure before trusting someone, so I assume BC would have done his due diligence before trusting L. However, if BC went according to his plan, he would have checked the other elected official, incognito, first. I very very much want and hope that BC/L are both town and working together. However, another reason why they might be working together is if they're both mafia. Now there's little sign that both are mafia right now, but if we accept that they're both not mafia, I want to know how they came to trust each other. You may say I'm fishing for information, but I'm looking for explanations of your public actions. You two are working together, and we as a town should be wondering if there's any valid reason WHY. Because if there is no strong reason why they should trust each other, there's only one other explanation why they do so.
It should be BC's number one priority to get the trust of the town right now. Prove to us that you're a legit DT/mayor. Like Versatile has said, once BC has proved himself, he can become the center of a much larger town circle, everyone can role claim to him, and we can wrap up this game. If BC cannot prove himself to be DT, then the town needs to remember how powerful a mafia member can be with three votes and an excuse for not getting nightkilled.
I will not speculate on all of this yet. However, I will note that, while BC did not publicly comment on his alleged collaboration with L, BC contradicted L's statement about there being "two DTs" checking the same target on night one in PMs. From top to bottom,starting with my message:
From: BloodyC0bbler [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: Confused Date: 3/17/10 03:08 Once this night phase is done, more should become clear. Hell more can be said then truth be told. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: So what is your assessment of L's statement in the end? More nonsense? Lies? Truth? I really need some answers by tonight from you/him/incognito. I see few logical scenarios thus far, but am willing to patiently wait for more clarification before jumping the conclusions. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: if there is a second dt check, I am unaware of it. I'm currently just aware of multiple driver claims. I believed he had misread that post in that I thought he was summarizing my vague text. I will say it is highly unlikely we have a second dt. I can also say as of the end of the night phase, I will be either cleared or killed based on my check. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote:
To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. Incorrect? Misinterpreted? I can't square this post. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: It is also not true (unless there is a second dt that I am unaware of). He was "summing up" one of my posts, but it was a different second driver I had to clear, not a second dt ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I didn't even think a lot about the type of blue you found. L specifically stated two DTs checked the same player and were bussed - that bothered me. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: You also misinterpreted which blue role we found two of. Was not a second dt, but a second driver. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO.
At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver.
You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either.
This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared.
The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart.
Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. Lots of confusing statements here. We've only had one night to run checks, yet you have apparently cleared blues plural, and also got in contact with the bus driver. The same driver who, according to L, deflected the checks of you + another DT on night one. I assume, based on your past statements, you checked the other official, Incognito, but the bus driver deflected it. Why would a town allied driver do that? Somewhere deep down I want both you and L to be DTs and working together. We'd be in fantastic shape if that were the case. However, right now things just don't add up between your stories and his bus-driver comment.
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Our great leaders: you need to speak up. You've had two nights to fuck around.
BC - we're still waiting for your confirmed players list and a straight story about your relationship with L. You also stated as part of your initial strategy that on night one you will check the other elected official - in this case Incognito. Let's hear it: did you or didn't you? Were you bussed away, as L claimed?
L, congrats for surviving another night, now you need to explain the supposed night one incident with two detectives checking the same person and being bussed away. Please be my nanny - 'splain it to me slowly. The abrasive tone is useless now, you need to start acting like a townie who is helpful rather than deliberately confusing. Both of you need to read what you stated thus far and be held accountable. + Show Spoiler +On March 17 2010 04:56 citi.zen wrote:Townies, pay attention: this is a hugely important post going forward, we need explanations here. Patiently read and think about it for now, let's not cover it with mounds of spam. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 03:49 Zona wrote:
I must state that I agree a lot with Versatile on BC's performance (yet disagree that BC needs to be lynched quickly). Being elected is a privilege and responsibility, not entitlement and right, and you're not living up to the responsibility of being mayor - by being more active, acknowledging and responding to the town, and accusing and driving discussion. Actually, in future games, because of your lack of performance in this game, I will probably not vote for you in elections.
I want the town to think very much about BC/L working together. So much so that L is elaborating on BC's statements, and BC does nothing to refute L's elaborations. If they can prove themselves as town, we're in amazing shape. I am curious how they came to trust each other though. A DT/mayor (if that's what BC actually is) definitely needs to be very sure before trusting someone, so I assume BC would have done his due diligence before trusting L. However, if BC went according to his plan, he would have checked the other elected official, incognito, first. I very very much want and hope that BC/L are both town and working together. However, another reason why they might be working together is if they're both mafia. Now there's little sign that both are mafia right now, but if we accept that they're both not mafia, I want to know how they came to trust each other. You may say I'm fishing for information, but I'm looking for explanations of your public actions. You two are working together, and we as a town should be wondering if there's any valid reason WHY. Because if there is no strong reason why they should trust each other, there's only one other explanation why they do so.
It should be BC's number one priority to get the trust of the town right now. Prove to us that you're a legit DT/mayor. Like Versatile has said, once BC has proved himself, he can become the center of a much larger town circle, everyone can role claim to him, and we can wrap up this game. If BC cannot prove himself to be DT, then the town needs to remember how powerful a mafia member can be with three votes and an excuse for not getting nightkilled. I will not speculate on all of this yet. However, I will note that, while BC did not publicly comment on his alleged collaboration with L, BC contradicted L's statement about there being "two DTs" checking the same target on night one in PMs. From top to bottom,starting with my message: Show nested quote +From: BloodyC0bbler [ Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Re: Confused Date: 3/17/10 03:08 Once this night phase is done, more should become clear. Hell more can be said then truth be told. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: So what is your assessment of L's statement in the end? More nonsense? Lies? Truth? I really need some answers by tonight from you/him/incognito. I see few logical scenarios thus far, but am willing to patiently wait for more clarification before jumping the conclusions. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: if there is a second dt check, I am unaware of it. I'm currently just aware of multiple driver claims. I believed he had misread that post in that I thought he was summarizing my vague text. I will say it is highly unlikely we have a second dt. I can also say as of the end of the night phase, I will be either cleared or killed based on my check. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: On March 16 2010 11:08 L wrote:
To elaborate on what BC just said:
2 DTs seem to have checked the same target, which was bussed to a second target. Whether or not this is a fluke or someone's lying intensely is yet to be found. Incorrect? Misinterpreted? I can't square this post. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: It is also not true (unless there is a second dt that I am unaware of). He was "summing up" one of my posts, but it was a different second driver I had to clear, not a second dt ----------------------------------------- Original Message: I didn't even think a lot about the type of blue you found. L specifically stated two DTs checked the same player and were bussed - that bothered me. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: You also misinterpreted which blue role we found two of. Was not a second dt, but a second driver. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO.
At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver.
You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either.
This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared.
The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart.
Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. Lots of confusing statements here. We've only had one night to run checks, yet you have apparently cleared blues plural, and also got in contact with the bus driver. The same driver who, according to L, deflected the checks of you + another DT on night one. I assume, based on your past statements, you checked the other official, Incognito, but the bus driver deflected it. Why would a town allied driver do that? Somewhere deep down I want both you and L to be DTs and working together. We'd be in fantastic shape if that were the case. However, right now things just don't add up between your stories and his bus-driver comment.
Incognito, you need to start playing for real - you've made nothing but glaring mistakes in this game and I don't trust you one bit right now. Zona caught many of those. Also, you nominated and tried to take credit for Malongo's lynching, and also said you would pardon Abenson since you thought it was a bandwagon lynching and nobody came to his aid. Good show, but unfortunately the same exact thing can be said about Malongo. Right now it just looks like you knew a red was going to be mod-killed and tried to at least use it to build credibility.
I realize it is unlikely you are all red. However, you all need to start talking, and coherently. If you are town you need to start acting like leaders and use the blue roles you claim to have to help the town.
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On March 17 2010 10:17 madnessman wrote:Zona was a really good poster. Sad to see him go  Since both bodyguards were bumped off, can we safely assume that at least one of the mayor/pardoner people are legit?
Not even remotely - why would a mafia in office care if BG's are killed? It's not like they need them for protection, and in fact it can be an easy way to increase credibility - OMG they must be coming for us!!?!?
Don't assume anything until the officials start to speak up and actually make sense.
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johnnyspazz invites me to go fishing with him:
+ Show Spoiler +From: johnnyspazz [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: mafia bus driver
Date: 3/17/10 08:07
give me a chance to prove it then
which two should i swap?
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Original Message:
I think you are fishing. Too many driver claims in this game.
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Original Message:
would you like to coordinate some sort of attack before night's over?
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Original Message:
Did you use your power once already?
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Original Message:
i'm going to take a huge gamble here and pray that you are mafia because i'm telling you i am the mafia-aligned bus driver
And Iaaan/johnny try to take each other (and Zona) out fishing:
+ Show Spoiler +From: Iaaan [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 3/17/10 08:36
I am reasonably sure that BC is the DT, even if he isn't doing the best job taking advantage of it. L I am less sure about, however I think the most suspicious thing about his is simply his style. Incognito has said to me in PM's that his roles makes it so that it isnt beneficial for the town to know it until the time is right. This makes me think he is most likly a bus driver, and least likely a DT or medic, MAYBE a vigilante.
On another note, another thing that came from my PMing, I claimed to be a mafia bus driver to Johnnyspazz, and he in turn claimed to be mafia. Obviously there are trust issues, I know that he has been discrediting me in PM's to other people, telling them what I've been doing. This makes me more inclined to think that he is town, and trying to get me killed. The way to confirm eachother is that he has told me his kill list, and the reason I'm telling you this is because you are on it; if he is mafia you cannot be. They are also placing a hit on Bill murray, which I am to switch with L. I am not a bus driver, but I think that I may be able to get one to do the switch for me. If you and bill/L don't get hit, then we know the johnnyspazz is probably town.
Again, I think that both of us are BSing eachother. If he is mafia, you are safe to contact, as well as Bill Murray and L, and maybe I can find more mafia through him. If not, I'm covering my ass for later.
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Original Message:
Hey, let's talk. What do you think about the BC/L situation? Both town? Both mafia? BC town but L's mafia and tricked him? (Or BC mafia and L town? But I don't see how that explains anything.) BC's not being very responsive to the town and L doesn't post in a clear way...I can't figure out what their strategy is.
Clearing the doubt around BC one way or another can really help the town move forwards...
And incognito, the third of the serious election candidates - how does he fit in? BC/L town and incognito mafia? all of them town (is it likely the mafia didn't run any serious candidates)?
That said, I don't care right now about these guys. If they think this sort of play helps the town... there is not much to say. And if they are red, we have them on the shortlist.
Right now I want to hear from Incognito, BC and L.
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On March 17 2010 11:23 L wrote:
First order of business: Vote Bill Murray today. There's no reason not to.
Second, those 2 DT checks? They were bus driven off sidespring onto me. Both DTs got my role back as Mad Hatter, which is what I am. One DT i know about via incog. He doesn't trust me and didn't want to claim despite the fact that I'm a fucking hatter and therefore act as the perfect mouth for him. The second PM'd me directly early in day 1 and we set up the bus driver shunt on purpose to have me rolechecked on day 1 as per the plan I set out.
Third, I need DTs to PM me the results of their rolechecks. Or, DT #2, if you don't believe me, PM it to the guy you normally talk to, and then guy you normally talk to PM me.
Fourth, Iaaan has been shitting around in PMs and claiming that he's the mafia bus driver. I've heard this from two people. He just told me he's townie, so I'd like him to fucking explain himself.
Fifth. No medic protection on the BGs? Musta been on me. If you trust me, give me a PM. If you don't, don't. The protections for tomorrow should be pretty obvious anyways. I just want to make sure you don't protect the bus drivin' target (which we're probably going to use tonight).
Here's the thing; That "I'll trade my life for this lynch on Bill Murray" thing? That was specifically because I'd blow up another 2 people that i think are mafia, and thus I think town will not waste the lynch even if they use it on me.
Recap: Lols.
Pretty good and straight forward thus far.
One question for you: was the one DT you know of BC? Keep in ind that the mafia already knwos if he is red or not, so this answer simply brings clarity to the town.
Question for Incognito: how did the "2nd DT" come to trust you on night one, if they were not able to role-check you?
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On March 17 2010 11:28 johnnyspazz wrote:Show nested quote +Iaaan said this in a PM to citi.zen:
The way to confirm eachother is that he has told me his kill list, and the reason I'm telling you this is because you are on it; if he is mafia you cannot be. They are also placing a hit on Bill murray, which I am to switch with L. I am not a bus driver, but I think that I may be able to get one to do the switch for me. If you and bill/L don't get hit, then we know the johnnyspazz is probably town. he must have reading comprehension issues because this was the other conversation i forgot to include Show nested quote +From: Iaaan [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Re: maifa
Date: 3/17/10 08:21
Okay, but I think zona might have protection to. If you want to kill a BG, cynan might be a safer choice, he isn't vocal/as useful to the town.
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Original Message:
Ok, the we want to kill L and we're pretty sure that he has protection to switch L with BM. we're going to hit zona and BM tonight.
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Original Message:
Night time almost over?
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Original Message:
when my team has a list sure
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Original Message:
In order to confirm our roles to eachother, I think that you should tell me the kill list, and I will use my power to switch one of the hits, and I will tell you who I've switched. Then we can work together better.
Sound good?
That was a PM Zona forwarded to me, in case he died. Iaan never PM-ed me. This is borderline spam right now, let Incognito and BC speak.
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On March 17 2010 12:04 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 11:29 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 11:23 L wrote:
First order of business: Vote Bill Murray today. There's no reason not to.
Second, those 2 DT checks? They were bus driven off sidespring onto me. Both DTs got my role back as Mad Hatter, which is what I am. One DT i know about via incog. He doesn't trust me and didn't want to claim despite the fact that I'm a fucking hatter and therefore act as the perfect mouth for him. The second PM'd me directly early in day 1 and we set up the bus driver shunt on purpose to have me rolechecked on day 1 as per the plan I set out.
Third, I need DTs to PM me the results of their rolechecks. Or, DT #2, if you don't believe me, PM it to the guy you normally talk to, and then guy you normally talk to PM me.
Fourth, Iaaan has been shitting around in PMs and claiming that he's the mafia bus driver. I've heard this from two people. He just told me he's townie, so I'd like him to fucking explain himself.
Fifth. No medic protection on the BGs? Musta been on me. If you trust me, give me a PM. If you don't, don't. The protections for tomorrow should be pretty obvious anyways. I just want to make sure you don't protect the bus drivin' target (which we're probably going to use tonight).
Here's the thing; That "I'll trade my life for this lynch on Bill Murray" thing? That was specifically because I'd blow up another 2 people that i think are mafia, and thus I think town will not waste the lynch even if they use it on me.
Recap: Lols. Pretty good and straight forward thus far. One question for you: was the one DT you know of BC? Keep in ind that the mafia already knwos if he is red or not, so this answer simply brings clarity to the town. Question for Incognito: how did the "2nd DT" come to trust you on night one, if they were not able to role-check you? Its irrelevant who the DTs are to you. Sorry, but that's the truth. A number of people have confirmed themselves by various methods, but I'm not about to openly TELL mafia who they should be hitting and those that aren't worth the time. I can, however, tell you that there are a few traps set up with regards to a few claims. To the rest of the town; Please stop fucking asking. You don't want this information public. The people that are confirmed are going to stay underwraps because getting picked off at an equal rate to the speed that DTs can check them is pretty shit.
Nobody asked you to reveal any information about private claims (yet). My question is specific about BC - a very different matter: not telling the town whether or not BC is a DT does not protect him. BC is either lying or he is not. If he is telling the truth, he is a mafia target right now - the mafia does not need you confirmation, they already know he isn't one of them and there are no more bodyguards. If anything, it helps the medics. If he is lying, he is most likely red and should be lynched.'
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On March 17 2010 12:19 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 02:32 Versatile wrote:On March 17 2010 02:07 Incognito wrote:On March 16 2010 01:19 Versatile wrote:On March 15 2010 23:24 Abenson wrote:
Hello, I am back and have gotten caught up with the whole thing.
I have realized that I am to be lynched if this goes on, but I think this is wrong.
This is because:
a) I have shown no obvious signs of being mafia so far, other than inactivity. I am still in high school and it's currently march break, so I'm generally off somewhere or playing Starcraft with my friends.
b) I, as myself, would not like to be lynched.
c) As someone have said, nobody has come to defend me yet, this means that the mafia or anyone isn't trying hard to save me. Therefore I think this is sufficient proof that I have nobody working with me.
d) As for the "dt's post their results" is because I think that it is perfectly logical; And also I really have nothing better to post at the time and wanted to contribute.
Finally, I would like to say that lynching someone simply because of lack of candidate is generally a bad idea. It is wasting valuable lynches and plus I haven't really done anything that is suspicious. the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red. if they didn't, then there is no reason for them to put themselves in the limelight. On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. On March 17 2010 00:50 Versatile wrote:On March 16 2010 10:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 16 2010 10:34 Versatile wrote:
also BC. wth is this trash about, "oh i found a townie, but i'm not releasing their name"?
that's bullshit. guess what? the mafia already knows who is town and who is mafia. this is not new information to them, but it is to us, the town. if you are a DT, and you found a green person, let us know so we don't, among other things, LYNCH THEM BY ACCIDENT.
mafia's weakness: numbers.
our weakness: information. so keeping things a secret is not useful to the town. The moment you go to lynch them I WILL TELL YOU SO. At the moment all I've cleared sadly for you are blues. I am not telling you who they are, and I have already confirmed I am in contact with a driver. You at the moment don't need to know more than that. You don't need to know who I am talking to at the moment either. This debate happened pages ago. It seems very interesting that the same people are pushing to get information on who I have cleared. If this was three days from now, when I have a larger list of people and takes time for the mafia to kill them all, possibly not a bad idea. Early on however means they can kill them faster than I can check. If they are green or blue is irrelevant. Soon as their name is down, mafia knows they are cleared. The fact you keep pushing this same idea is baffling. I get that you want me to prove my role, I do get it. By releasing a list of names for mafia to off however is insanely stupid. Your actions while challenging me are great. I do encourage the town to do so till I am proven, however, you constantly pushing for my death + publically giving all the information I have more implies that your not playing with the towns best interests at heart. Get off your high horse and stop demanding shit. DT info is fed via mouths, or in the case they get elected and proven (yes you can claim I'm not proven yet), they give what they can safely to town, and can give the rest to trusted confirms. first of all, stop crying. if you didn't want to be pushed or questioned, you should have never signed up for mayor. it's what comes with the territory. and it's not about me. it's also not about you. it's about what's best for the town, and you're sadly mistaken if you think you're doing what's best for the town. it's about to be day 3, and you haven't shown the town, in the thread, any definitive leadership. i understand that you don't want the mafia killing confirmed townies. however, if you were to announce player A and player B are townies to the town, and the mafia proceeds to kill them, guess what? the mafia just confirmed your innocence for the town. don't you get that? i mean, they're going to kill townies any way, they know who their own are. i think sacrificing 1 or 2 greens is worth achieving a confirmed DT mayor.at the moment that we know we can trust you BC, the game is over. you can get role claims from all of us, and end this. i cannot comprehend why it is almost day 3 and you have not made more movement on this. so, i apologize if it seems like i am "viciously attacking" you. that's not my intention. i just want answers from our leader. Lets take a look at these three posts from Versatile. First, she agrees with BC's idea that DTs should only announce red checks. Second post, she decides that BC is pulling BS here when he decides to follow the plan that she agreed with. Third post, I guess she figures that her previous attempt to get BC to spit out the confirmed townies didn't work and is desperate to find another way? Her plan is flawed for obvious reasons stated above. I dont know, but why do you keep switching your views on things that seem like they should be policy no matter what your role? Something doesn't add up here. Care to explain? Also, who do you suggest we lynch tomorrow? Did you read L's analysis of Bill Murray? On another note, On March 16 2010 10:31 Versatile wrote:
ummm, no @ BM.
i agree with whoever said malongo being red was luck. he wasn't even playing.
as for our next lynch target: town, if you don't recognize that someone between BC, L and incog is mafia, i will once again have to refer to the collective as a bunch of dingbats.
clearly, something is not adding up. at least one of them is mafia. and if we lynch one of them, we're guaranteed a red popping up.
my suggestion would be BC. and if incog threatens to pardon, we should kill incog first. Downplaying Malongo's lynch. Which fine, it wasn't some awesome convincing analysis. But it was a successful guess. Would the mafia really risk starting a train on Malongo when he hadn't been previously discussed? Sure, he was inactive and a good target to gain credibility, but at this point, they have more issues to worry about then gaining credibility from lynches. Either way, you've mentioned repeatedly that it is self-evident that one of BC/me/L are mafia. In fact you keep saying this as if you're 100% sure that this is true seemingly out of nowhere. Stirring up the town based on a percieved false consensus here? BC's alignment can be tested severely. Yours unfortunately is a bit more difficult. But I guess I'll wait to comment further until you answer this post. 1. that post was referring to an UNPROTECTED DT. i never agreed that BC should keep his checks secretly. not once. go read my posts. once again, stop misrepresenting my what i wrote. this is the same shyt people were doing to L. i have used to the same policy the entire time. i haven't changed my mind. so that point is null and void. 2. lol, are you serious? downplaying malongo's lynch? if i were mafia, what would i gain from doing this? and how was it a successful guess? NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died. that's not a towny victory. that's just bad luck for the mafia. further, citi.zen and L both said the same thing. but it only matters to you that i said it right? 3. i don't understand how you can say that i am "stirring up the town based on perceived false consensus". i am not the only towny who has said this, so there is no perceived false consensus. fact is, it is very unlikely that that all three of you are blue/green. that's what i think, and if you don't like, go cry to someone else about it. now, instead of riding my jock, maybe you'd like to actually post something substantial. cut the "all will be made clear in the morning's dawn when God whispers in your ear" bullshit. you're also an elected official and i don't see you doing much either. in fact, i find it suspicious that you're taking all the heat for BC when you claim to be suspicious of him yourself. what's up with that, boss? Thank you for the nonsense garbage reply that ignores half of my statements. Again, "the only time a DT should step forward is if they found a red". I think everyone would agree that I'm not taking your posts out of context here. Only is a pretty strong word. And even if I look at the post you're replying to, Abenson doesn't mention unprotected DTs specifically. Oops and you decide not to respond to my comments on your second and third pms. Trying to cover that up? "NO ONE could have voted for malongo and he STILL would have died." This is true. But why are you trying to deny the fact that BC and I started the move against Malongo? Sure, it wasn't the most solid analysis, but it still counts for something. Regardless of what the outcome was, its the actions and the motives that are important here. Yes, you are downplaying Malongo's lynch, perhaps because as mafia, you fear that BC and I will become too trusted by the town. There's no logical reason why BC and I would start a train against our own mafia teammate when we didn't have to. Everyone seemed perfectly happy bandwagoning Abenson. Mafia didn't need to break the status quo. And now you're saying they did. I now have proof that BC and I are either BOTH mafia or both town, which I'll bring up later. I'm taking the heat for BC because you are doing something incredibly narrow minded, short sighted, and misguided. As for you, I'd appreciate if you didn't spam the thread with all that vulgar and useless language. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 05:25 Abenson wrote:
I went to mafiascum.net and I've just realized that Incog is scummer himself and won the IC award :O I don't play on mafiascum. Show nested quote +Quote from sidesprang: Which brings us to other candidates. Quite frankly, there's a lot. We can never be sure, but at the moment, I'm not comfortable at all with Abenson as a candidate. I would suggest Malongo and Sidesprang as alternatives. Both of whom have very few posts. Malongo has also gone mysteriously missing after his bid for office. Soon after posting, he was called out, and never responded. Which is always unsettling. Furthermore, he usually posts more material. Sometimes its not very useful material, but he always has some material. Either way, this is different for Malongo. No this is a quote from me. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 07:45 Bill Murray wrote:
sorry for misquoting you sidesprang, seemed suspicious though.
i guess ill ask you, then, incognito. why were you so worried about malongo's inactivity? I wasn't even aware he was inactive, I was bloody f5ing the voting thread ready to switch my vote on him if he showed up. This has been stated several times. Inactive + ran for mayor then disappeared. He's also known for posting a lot more. And Abenson was a worse lynch target because nobody defended him and he was acting like he was every game. Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 07:46 Bill Murray wrote:
Also, Incognito, why have you been a lot less active in organizing the town this game as compared with the last? Because I haven't. More to come. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 53. An interesting page that has a handful of people spamming "that sucks" posts all over. Yes it does suck. But Versatile, I thought you wanted us to die anyway? On to business. And roleclaims. And clearing BC of guilt. First off, I am the Bus Driver. If you guys haven't figured it out yet, the reason why we all had figured out blues was because we were all blue. Durr. And the reason why I didn't claim driver after my election was so that the mafia/mafia driver wouldnt mess up our checks. So, on to confirmations. Night 1, BC checks sidesprang. I bus sidesprang and L. L is rolechecked and comes up as a Mad Hatter, which is all fine and dandy. While this confirms L and me to BC, it did nothing to confirm BC to me. Day 2, I receive a pm from a claimed DT. Now I get hella suspicious of BC, guessing that the balance would be terribly off if we had 2 DTs and only 5 mafia. So fearing that I had wasted my first bus to a manipulative GF, I decided to end this once and for all. BC would be tested by bus. Simple, really. I ask BC to check player X. Then, I use my powers to swap player X with any of the other remaining 19 players on the field. BC now has to guess who I swapped with, in addition to the role. 1/19 is pretty slim for a fake DT. Fortunately, BC passed the test. So either we are both mafia, or we are both town. Any questions? Will post more about lynch targets in a short while.
I really... want to believe this, but need a few more things cleared up:
1. The bus driver's alignment cannot be confirmed. Ever. BC and L don't seem the gullible kind, so I hope they aren't giving access to any role-check information.
2. I find it highly unlikely both DTs would check sidersprang on night 1.
Second, those 2 DT checks? They were bus driven off sidespring onto me. Both DTs got my role back as Mad Hatter, which is what I am. One DT i know about via incog. He doesn't trust me and didn't want to claim despite the fact that I'm a fucking hatter and therefore act as the perfect mouth for him. The second PM'd me directly early in day 1 and we set up the bus driver shunt on purpose to have me rolechecked on day 1 as per the plan I set out.
Is L (still) lying? If not, who is?
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On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs.
The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you.
Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle.
I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this:
On March 17 2010 12:40 L wrote:
Ah incog you're dumb. Don't tell them shit.
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On March 17 2010 13:00 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs. The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you. Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle. I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this:
Still can't understand why the "other DT" would trust Incognito, the un-confirmable bus driver, over L, who he got to personally check.
Another thing too: Ace dropped from this game because he thought it was too town-imbalanced with ONE DT in office, given the two body-guards, medics and unlimited checks. Now we're told there are TWO DTs and a town-allied bus driver? Why would Flamewheel do that? It makes no sense to me.
Sorry to keep harping on this, but if Incognito (or, as a remote possibility, all 3 of you) are red, we're screwed.
Of course, if you're all true-blue all's great. I'd love to be able to believe that, but I can't do it yet.
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On March 17 2010 13:15 johnnyspazz wrote:
perhaps we should lynch L and see if bombs explode
Incognito makes more sense. but at this point I'd lynch L just for fun.
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On March 17 2010 13:14 L wrote:
Please fucking ignore him incog. Its pretty obvious that he's guilty as shit.
Focus on important matters; If you trust me, Its claim time.
DTs: Night check information from night 2 please.
Bus Drivers and Medics: I can understand you guys being afraid, so I won't be dropping the hateraid on you if you don't claim, but we need to co-ordinate protection for the next night. Its REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. So give me a shout if you think I'm legit, which you probably should if you've read this thread for long enough.
L, how about this: lynch me today.
If I turn red... good riddance, you get to move on.
If I turn blue, the town the uses the 2x lynch on you and Incognito. He is the un-confirmable bus driver who already used his powers anyway, and you supposedly wanted to be blown up anyway to kill your great targets and help the town.
I don't mind being lynched one bit if it helps the town confirm both of you. On your end, this is the 3rd time you call me red. Back your shit up and vote for my lynching.
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On March 17 2010 13:10 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:00 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 12:38 Incognito wrote:
If I were the mafia BD, do you really think I would waste BOTH of my two uses to not screw the town over? You really think I would confirm BC to you and link you guys to 2 DTs and a Hatter?
It is unlikely that both DTs would check the same target on night 1. However, sidesprang was fishy. So it is somewhat understandable. Again, yes, the double check on sidesprang was what made me initially suspicious. But now I'm almost 100% sure that we have 2 legit DTs. The problem is Incognito, you keep making very obviously bad arguments. Coming from you this is confusing. Perhaps it's fine from L, but not you. Here's why what you say above is wrong: as a mafia-aligned bus driver, your real power right now would not be busing people around, it would be information and access to a trusted circle. I am seriously tempted to say that lynching one of you is the best move, just to confirm the color before we go forward. Especially if L goes back to obnoxious shit like this: On March 17 2010 12:40 L wrote:
Ah incog you're dumb. Don't tell them shit. Can you point out my "obviously bad arguments"? I might be able to explain them. Has anyone important died? No. Well, not besides Zona. But that would kinda be expected from the mafia, no? Either way, as a mafia, I'd be way more inclined to just silence the people who roleclaim to me with bullets instead of trying to goad them, waste my powers, AND telling this all to the town.
Shall we start here:
On March 13 2010 10:52 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:09 Incognito wrote:
DT Check List:
CynanMachae
~OpZ~
Sidesprang
Medic Prot List:
Incognito
Bodyguard A
Bodyguard B Why are you dictating a list for the DT's and Medics? Do you have any reasons for the people you've chosen? Let the DTs and medics choose for themselves. If you post a public list, and the DTs and medics actually follow it, the mafia bus driver can effectively screw with the town without even needing to find his/her fellow mafia members in order to coordinate. I think these lists are not a helpful idea for the town. It also irks me that you've declared your idea to be final without thinking through the differences in the mechanics in this game. Or perhaps you have, but decided to hold such things back and post the flawed argument nonetheless. Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:11 Incognito wrote:
2. Please refrain from deviating from this list unless you have VERY good reasons. Yuck. Also, what the heck is this: Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 03:53 Incognito wrote:
Day 1 lynch targets. Looks like the race is between BC and L. Who are you guys going to lynch?
I have a feeling Malongo/Foolishness/Versatile are good targets. All been quiet, all good enough to be mafia since I think the three candidates are town. They just haven't done enough for me to see them as town-sided. What does everyone else think? Why are you simply naming the other reputable players in the game? "Good enough to be mafia"? How does being "good" have any relation to their chance of being mafia in a game with randomly distributed roles? And being quiet isn't automatically a mafia tell. Maybe they just want to try a different style this game. Finally, did you put a serious effort into your election campaign beyond the initial posts? Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 10:18 nemY wrote:On March 13 2010 06:45 Incognito wrote:On March 13 2010 06:37 nemY wrote:
I think regardless of who gets elected the most important thing the DT(s) should NOT do is ROLE-CLAIM to the mayor/pardoner. The chances of one of them being GF is so high that it's just not worth it yet. Unless the DT is telling other people about it too, you'd think a DT for GF trade is good, no? Absolutely not. DT for GF is not a good trade. With no clue analysis, unlimited role checks and only behavior analysis, DT is the most powerful role in the game. nemY is absolutely right in this case. First of all the GF role only has a purpose if the DT is still around, so if you lose the DT, the GF is just another mafia member. Secondly, and I'm probably reiterating things that everyone knows, the power of the DT is not only to identify mafia but to privately or publicly confirm town members for various uses. (Private trust-worthy discussions, for example.) And so trading the DT for a single mafia member is not ideal. I'm surprised that this early in the game I'm making a post of this size focused on just one of our players, but those three statements are truly bad ideas that do not help the town. Whether they were things you truly overlooked while formulating your ideas or are intentional actions, the town will have to examine what plans you propose very carefully. P.S. Everyone who's using red and blue and whatever colors to strengthen your posts - please don't. The colors themselves do not contribute anything whatsoever to your reasoning, and instead (at least to me) shows that you don't have enough confidence in your arguments alone and have to rely on gimmicks to reinforce them.
Or perhaps here:
On March 16 2010 07:44 Zona wrote:Damn there's a lot to catch up on. I'm going to respond to bits and pieces as I read them, so prepare for quite a few posts. Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 04:00 Incognito wrote:
Anyway, at the rate that this is going, I am considering pardoning Abenson if he wins this lynch. Not because I am convinced of his innocence, but because I think you guys are just trying to bandwagon him to death. Do not pardon anyone. (I'm still catching up on posts and haven't decided whether or not he feels innocent.) Even if he is innocent and dies, we need that information as town. If you pardon, we have no idea whether or not he is innocent, and we cannot use that information to evaluate how people were discussing him. Even a town member being lynched provides more information than we had before, and we need this information. To be honest I think the existence of a pardoner is not helpful to the town because pardoning itself is rarely beneficial, and is downright dangerous in the hands of a mafia pardoner late game, but that's a discussion for elsewhere, I suppose.
In my view this is just not the sort of strategy someone with your experience, who knows and thought about the rules deeply, would come up with.
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On March 17 2010 13:24 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:22 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 13:14 L wrote:
Please fucking ignore him incog. Its pretty obvious that he's guilty as shit.
Focus on important matters; If you trust me, Its claim time.
DTs: Night check information from night 2 please.
Bus Drivers and Medics: I can understand you guys being afraid, so I won't be dropping the hateraid on you if you don't claim, but we need to co-ordinate protection for the next night. Its REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT. So give me a shout if you think I'm legit, which you probably should if you've read this thread for long enough. L, how about this: lynch me today. If I turn red... good riddance, you get to move on. If I turn blue, the town the uses the 2x lynch on you and Incognito. He is the un-confirmable bus driver who already used his powers anyway, and you supposedly wanted to be blown up anyway to kill your great targets and help the town. I don't mind being lynched one bit if it helps the town confirm both of you. On your end, this is the 3rd time you call me red. Back your shit up and vote for my lynching. Citi.zen, how about this: We lynch BM today. If he dies and flips green I'll put a bomb on you and when I die you'll die regardless. K? K. Thanks.
For the last time: I don't care about BM, and his color is irrelevant. I really hope you are all blue, but at this time things just don't add up.
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On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote:
Dear town, please don't waste a lynch on me. I don't mind being killed by mafia, but I would be very sad if you wasted your lynches on me.
There's something not right about Xelin right now. What bothers me isn't his inconsistent behavior in this single game... but in that apparently he feels much, much better about his mafia-detection in this game, enough that he would run himself on a platform in the early game. The fact that he defends BM is irrelevant to me - BM plays so ridiculously that he could be anything. It's not enough to make me think, "yes, Xelin is as RED as cherry pie" but obviously if the town decides to lynch him and prove me wrong I won't say a word. I think the case with Iaaan is similar - he wouldn't be trying retarded PM-traps unless he was town. Then again we can lynch him too and see what happens.
I think Foolishness is a much stronger candidate to lynch, given he hasn't really said anything in recent memory and could very well be GF. I'm also wondering about Nemy, who's been relatively silent throughout the game as well. l10f is a pretty bad choice for lynch, because as far as I know ALL of the games he's played in he's stayed on the down-low, even when he was blue/green. The time to root out inactives is now, yes - but we've got to pick the right ones.
Incog, have you explained WHY you switched sidesprang and L? That's the part that bothers me the most at this point, because while your abilities aren't in question your alignment still is. At this point I'm thinking it might even be beneficial for a mafia-aligned Bus to perform some pro-town actions in the beginning. We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons.Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs. Seriously, that move is self expainatory. He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver.
LOL - wait, wait, so it's "we" - even before you were confirmed to each other? Really, this was a joint decision? Now we're getting somewhere :-)
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On March 17 2010 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:36 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 17 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote:
Dear town, please don't waste a lynch on me. I don't mind being killed by mafia, but I would be very sad if you wasted your lynches on me.
There's something not right about Xelin right now. What bothers me isn't his inconsistent behavior in this single game... but in that apparently he feels much, much better about his mafia-detection in this game, enough that he would run himself on a platform in the early game. The fact that he defends BM is irrelevant to me - BM plays so ridiculously that he could be anything. It's not enough to make me think, "yes, Xelin is as RED as cherry pie" but obviously if the town decides to lynch him and prove me wrong I won't say a word. I think the case with Iaaan is similar - he wouldn't be trying retarded PM-traps unless he was town. Then again we can lynch him too and see what happens.
I think Foolishness is a much stronger candidate to lynch, given he hasn't really said anything in recent memory and could very well be GF. I'm also wondering about Nemy, who's been relatively silent throughout the game as well. l10f is a pretty bad choice for lynch, because as far as I know ALL of the games he's played in he's stayed on the down-low, even when he was blue/green. The time to root out inactives is now, yes - but we've got to pick the right ones.
Incog, have you explained WHY you switched sidesprang and L? That's the part that bothers me the most at this point, because while your abilities aren't in question your alignment still is. At this point I'm thinking it might even be beneficial for a mafia-aligned Bus to perform some pro-town actions in the beginning. We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons.Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs. Seriously, that move is self expainatory. He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver. LOL - wait, wait, so it's "we" - even before you were confirmed to each other? Really, this was a joint decision? Now we're getting somewhere :-) Roleclaim your role as you just claimed blue/red, and I claimed to incog before running for election. Or shall you be on the chopping block next
Way to ignore my question.
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I did not dodge anything. I made a simple statement, which I stand by. I hope the rest of the town paid attention, that is all.
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On March 17 2010 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:36 citi.zen wrote:On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 17 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote:
Dear town, please don't waste a lynch on me. I don't mind being killed by mafia, but I would be very sad if you wasted your lynches on me.
There's something not right about Xelin right now. What bothers me isn't his inconsistent behavior in this single game... but in that apparently he feels much, much better about his mafia-detection in this game, enough that he would run himself on a platform in the early game. The fact that he defends BM is irrelevant to me - BM plays so ridiculously that he could be anything. It's not enough to make me think, "yes, Xelin is as RED as cherry pie" but obviously if the town decides to lynch him and prove me wrong I won't say a word. I think the case with Iaaan is similar - he wouldn't be trying retarded PM-traps unless he was town. Then again we can lynch him too and see what happens.
I think Foolishness is a much stronger candidate to lynch, given he hasn't really said anything in recent memory and could very well be GF. I'm also wondering about Nemy, who's been relatively silent throughout the game as well. l10f is a pretty bad choice for lynch, because as far as I know ALL of the games he's played in he's stayed on the down-low, even when he was blue/green. The time to root out inactives is now, yes - but we've got to pick the right ones.
Incog, have you explained WHY you switched sidesprang and L? That's the part that bothers me the most at this point, because while your abilities aren't in question your alignment still is. At this point I'm thinking it might even be beneficial for a mafia-aligned Bus to perform some pro-town actions in the beginning. We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons.Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs. Seriously, that move is self expainatory. He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver. LOL - wait, wait, so it's "we" - even before you were confirmed to each other? Really, this was a joint decision? Now we're getting somewhere :-) Roleclaim your role as you just claimed blue/red, and I claimed to incog before running for election. Or shall you be on the chopping block next
Also, please do put me on the chopping block next. I think it would be very beneficial to the town either way: there's a great chance I've gone crazy with conspiracy theories, but i could also be right about Incognito. Either way things would move on much smoother.
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On March 17 2010 13:47 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2010 13:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On March 17 2010 13:31 d3_crescentia wrote:
Dear town, please don't waste a lynch on me. I don't mind being killed by mafia, but I would be very sad if you wasted your lynches on me.
There's something not right about Xelin right now. What bothers me isn't his inconsistent behavior in this single game... but in that apparently he feels much, much better about his mafia-detection in this game, enough that he would run himself on a platform in the early game. The fact that he defends BM is irrelevant to me - BM plays so ridiculously that he could be anything. It's not enough to make me think, "yes, Xelin is as RED as cherry pie" but obviously if the town decides to lynch him and prove me wrong I won't say a word. I think the case with Iaaan is similar - he wouldn't be trying retarded PM-traps unless he was town. Then again we can lynch him too and see what happens.
I think Foolishness is a much stronger candidate to lynch, given he hasn't really said anything in recent memory and could very well be GF. I'm also wondering about Nemy, who's been relatively silent throughout the game as well. l10f is a pretty bad choice for lynch, because as far as I know ALL of the games he's played in he's stayed on the down-low, even when he was blue/green. The time to root out inactives is now, yes - but we've got to pick the right ones.
Incog, have you explained WHY you switched sidesprang and L? That's the part that bothers me the most at this point, because while your abilities aren't in question your alignment still is. At this point I'm thinking it might even be beneficial for a mafia-aligned Bus to perform some pro-town actions in the beginning. We swapped sidesprang and L for a few reasons. Sidesprang we felt was semi fishy for day 1. He is also a player that if he was green and died we could most likely live without. The bus would save L from any night hits to give him a chance to lay his bombs. Seriously, that move is self expainatory. He could still be the mafia bus driver, but with this much pressure on himself, hes more likely to just get offed with every other bus driver. So somehow you all just magically knew that the other two were blue? That's what bothers me. I'm surprised the mafia wouldn't run any of their own, unless they KNEW how powerful DTs could be in office, and thus would rather have them in than out, and hope to stack hits on BGs so they can eliminate the offices. But it seems odd so far that they'd waste hits on Vivi and Fulgrim before moving onto BGs. This either suggests to me an inactive/disorganized/noob mafia. In this respect Xelin and Iaaan come to mind, with Xelin being the stronger suspect. I still feel that Iaaan is being very much Iaaan, but if he is mafia bus driver he'll be ineffectual unless he gets his hands on some private information. Here's where I'm going to trust the counsel of our wise town leaders and vote for BM despite my doubts. I'm of the belief that he's consistently inconsistent with his reasoning, but I don't see any better analysis out there.
Keep in mind the "we chose sidersprang" bit took place before the "mutual confirmation" story. Then the "other DT" also happened to choose sidersprang, of all people.
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Also, the "other DT" who happened to choose sidersprang, then did not go to L, whom he supposedly checked, but instead chose Incognito to reveal himself to.
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EPT
