EPT
I've played with BM a number of times, and he has several very positive aspects as a mafia player. He's active and contributes to the games that he is involved in. He is also undeniably enthusiastic about the game of mafia itself, and enjoys playing.
As others in this thread have pointed out, BM also has negative aspects as a mafia player. He has always been a spammy player, and at times tends towards arrogance or aggression. These are not good traits to have as a forum mafia player. However, these are problems which should be dealt with in game with a moderator, and in my eyes have no bearing on a semi-permanent ban.
Is spamming or in-game aggression worthy of warnings by a moderator: Absolutely
Is spamming or in-game aggression worthy of being modkilled/banned: Maybe/Maybe Not, this is left entirely up to the host.
Is spamming or in-game aggression worthy of being on the semi-permanent ban list: Absolutely NOT.
In my eyes the semi-permanent ban list is only for players who have displayed outrageous conduct. No matter how often spamming or in-game aggression is a problem, I do not think that the semi-permanent ban list is generally warranted in those cases. Hosts can choose to deny players from playing in their games, and other hosts can choose to allow such players to play.
Bill Murrays semi-permanent ban Worthy Offences:
There are two issues that I see that are worthy of the semi-permanent ban list. 1. In game offenses and 2. Attitude.
1. In game offenses:
a) posting a dt check result after being killed.
This is one of the worst things you could possibly do to a game. Worthy of a semi-permanent ban.
b) Being killed in Dr H's game and continually posting after death despite being asked to stop. Dr H having to ask an admin to temp-ban you in order to stop you from posting.
This is also worthy of a semi-permanent ban.
c) Posting an analysis of a player after death in RoL/Meapak's game, and continuing to post after being asked to stop by the co-host.
This is much more debatable. Worthy on it's own merit of a semi-permanent ban, probably not.
2. Attitude.
a) Threatening to ruin Dr H's game
+ Show Spoiler [ Dr H's comments] +
He literally threatened to ruin my game out of pure spite in PMs to me. When I asked him to stop posting in the thread he said "reinstate me and I'll fucking stop" and "you're pressing your luck, i'll post every fucking PM I have" which really came as a shock. If he's willing to go that far over what could have been a simple 1 game modkill, I'd say it's best not to have him playing here anymore unless he really turns around.
He did apologise and he did tell me he would leave without ruining my game but the fact that it crossed his mind surprised me and is a chance none of us should be willing to take considering how many games he has worsened or ruined in the past. Even in my first game with him, the mafia lost mostly Last edit: 2010-10-14 00:17:19
because he outed me after he was dead. This isn't the first time he's crossed the line IMO.
He did apologise and he did tell me he would leave without ruining my game but the fact that it crossed his mind surprised me and is a chance none of us should be willing to take considering how many games he has worsened or ruined in the past. Even in my first game with him, the mafia lost mostly Last edit: 2010-10-14 00:17:19
because he outed me after he was dead. This isn't the first time he's crossed the line IMO.
This is arguably a semi-permanent ban worthy offense. Threatening to ruin a game for the host and the other players is deplorable.
b) Discussion and treatment of RoL after the gryffindor incident.
This is not a ban-worthy offense, but is notable.
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Both points relating to the gryffindor incident(1c and 2b) are not major enough to be worthy of semi-permanent bans. However, and this is a big however, BM was only his last legs, and had been asked to be on his best behavior. This was a goodwill last-chance for BM and he was modkilled for flaming and spamming(prior problems), and posted illegally after death(also a prior problem). In addition he berated the host after the game and showed little to no respect for the hosts in general(also a prior problem). At the time, 12-18 months semi-permanent ban was recommended and agreed to(as far as I can tell). 5/6 months has gone by, and I at least am not ready to give BM another chance.
I think for me that's the most important thing. I don't actually want to play in a game with BM right now
. There is no other player I can think of that I would say that about. If I'm not ready to play with BM(and I was not involved in the incident, and am in general pretty easy going), then i'm positive that other players are not ready either. Flagrant rule breaking and threatening to ruin games, along with disregarding host instruction is not something to be brushed aside lightly.Honestly BM, this last post:
+ Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]On September 05 2011 14:39 Bill Murray wrote:
I don't even really want to talk about the gryffindor situation, GMarshal. That was very unjust in my eyes, and I will not be able to be anything but biased. The only thing I regret doing at all there is continuing posting at all.
RoL has said to me he "wouldn't have sought strict punishment in the ban thread", but that just shows the difference in mindsets here. I knew I was going to be permanently banned if it stuck, so I attempted to make it not stick. I felt I had a pretty good case based upon how frequently I was badgered that game, through my words and actions not intending to start fights... even going so far as to ask Jackal to take a breather and walk away from the thread (perhaps I should have taken my own advice!), and the inactivity of the host, RoL himself. If you'll notice, many of the dayposts from the most recent game in question from which I was banned were done by the backup mod. I had been consulting with said backup mod, had been told to calm down, and had actually quit posting completely. Right before I'm about to get off of here, though, I see RoL reveal my identity, and place upon me my 3rd ban. Nothing was done to Jackal... Oh well, like I said, I don't even want to talk about that game... biased opinion
I'm going to have a meal with my GF, then go to bed, and I will respond in the morning
peace out
and if you think I'm being a dick to RoL here is the beginning of his last pm to me
"
[quote]Original Message From RebirthOfLeGenD:
I will be completely straight with you right now. You are a dick."
He goes into about 6 paragraphs culminating in "I doubt you'll be able to play here, and you really need to change your life around"
and he doesn't even know me, does he? [/QUOTE]
I don't even really want to talk about the gryffindor situation, GMarshal. That was very unjust in my eyes, and I will not be able to be anything but biased. The only thing I regret doing at all there is continuing posting at all.
RoL has said to me he "wouldn't have sought strict punishment in the ban thread", but that just shows the difference in mindsets here. I knew I was going to be permanently banned if it stuck, so I attempted to make it not stick. I felt I had a pretty good case based upon how frequently I was badgered that game, through my words and actions not intending to start fights... even going so far as to ask Jackal to take a breather and walk away from the thread (perhaps I should have taken my own advice!), and the inactivity of the host, RoL himself. If you'll notice, many of the dayposts from the most recent game in question from which I was banned were done by the backup mod. I had been consulting with said backup mod, had been told to calm down, and had actually quit posting completely. Right before I'm about to get off of here, though, I see RoL reveal my identity, and place upon me my 3rd ban. Nothing was done to Jackal... Oh well, like I said, I don't even want to talk about that game... biased opinion
I'm going to have a meal with my GF, then go to bed, and I will respond in the morning
peace out
and if you think I'm being a dick to RoL here is the beginning of his last pm to me
"
[quote]Original Message From RebirthOfLeGenD:
I will be completely straight with you right now. You are a dick."
He goes into about 6 paragraphs culminating in "I doubt you'll be able to play here, and you really need to change your life around"
and he doesn't even know me, does he? [/QUOTE]
does not give me much faith that you have changed either your habits or attitude. Jackals first post in this thread after the gryffindor incident was to apologize to all involved, including yourself. That is an appropriate response. You decided to fight the host and call him out on any wrongdoing on his part, with little to no acknowledgement of wrongdoing on your part. RoL is not and was not the issue. Your conduct was and is.
As an aside, I also cannot help but feel that you think after death posting is wrong because it's against the rules... which is false. After death posting is wrong because it unfairly ruins games for both the host(s) and the players involved.
BM, you seem like a nice person, and you obviously have a genuine passion for forum mafia. I have no hard feelings towards you, I just don't want to play mafia with you. I hope you understand.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xyhKO.jpg)
