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On February 17 2010 02:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
For anyone in the general know how, and medics feel free to not prot me. However, Ver has tried to guess my role, as well as actively pm people this game. Both are actions Ver rarely takes. Read earlier in the thread and you will find that he "RC'd" to BM. I will spend some time once ive showered going over his posts and analyzing him, but he is not as safe an option to prot any more than I am.
Okay, I've just about caught up with this thread. This post is egregiously incorrect in its categorization of Ver's behavior during Mafia games. Ver frequently starts off a mafia game by posting two or three huge posts, and then communicates by PMs at night. This has been the case in every game I've ever played with Ver, and he's not playing any differently. When mafia, he usually posts less often day 2 and day 3, and when townie, Ver has tended towards PM'ing a specific group. In previous games, he's also tried guessing my role multiple times via PMs. That Ver might not like playing through PMs does not prevent him from doing so, and he does.
I apologize for being so inactive. I was away all of Saturday and most of Sunday. When I came back, I had 55 or so pages to tackle, and it was just overwhelming because of the amount of garbage in the thread which resulted from many individuals intentionally and rather blatantly ignoring the response posts of those whom they accused. Just an example: Ace is often accused of being mafia, and even though he is not contributing as much as he usually does, he does defend himself. Quite literally pages upon pages of responses to Ace's posts are complete misreadings of what he says. Everything ends up getting buried, and "inactives" like me get frustrated at how no responses can be made to those posts because there are forty pages to go. And this isn't just with Ace. Everyone's posts are being misinterpreted or skewed in some form or another, and more importantly, many are being overlooked (most notably, Ver's). Spammers respond to Chezinu's and BM's nonsense posts like they aren't half-assed troll attempts (chezinu more so than BM).
It's just all very depressing.
Perhaps on a more positive note, I really like the way "madnessman" is posting so far. Everything is well-thought out, and none of it is useless. Keep it up.
BM: Roleclaiming medic is an incredibly stupid move in this game, every bit as much as in any other game. As has already been pointed out, both mafia teams are simply trying to kill each other. In the event that one team is better than the other, the town should use medics to defend key mafia players, in order to be able to fulfill its own victory conditions. In this situation, the stronger mafia team will try to snipe the medics. Publicly RC'in medic makes this a rather easy task, even if he isn't necessarily confirmed (this is in general, not just redtooth), and takes away a stalling weapon the town still has.
I have contributed absolutely nothing this game, and I intend to help out now if I can.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On February 17 2010 06:20 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 03:16 nemY wrote:
I tallied up the list of ppl who made vote swaps. I may have made a mistake or two (in which case could someone double check it please?), but I feel like this may give a better clue to who our mafia may really be, and at least it it allows us to do some analysis, rather than say... making a list of ppl you "feel" are mafia
Chezinu 5x
DoctorHelvetica 3x
MasterDana 1x
[NyC]HoBbes 1x
789 2x
Bill Murray 6x
BloodyC0bbler 1x
tree.hugger 1x
Fulgrim 1x
Nikoner 2x
Ace 2x
Caller 2x
Decafchicken 1x
d3_crescentia 3x
citi.zen 2x
meeple 1x
sidesprang 1x
SugiuraMidori 1x
Empyrean 1x (he’s dead now though)
1. Why would you count abstaining as a "switch"? I only voted for DrH and RT, yet I have a 3x. 2. This post is completely void of content, yet is took some effort on your part (just not serious thinking about what and why you are going through the motions). Exactly the sort of thing that smacks of a bad attempt to "blend in" from a semi-active mafia member.
Apparently not, I switched my vote from abstain and I'm not on the list. This is a very inconsistent list and someone should go through and try to make it official. However I think what needs to be paid attention to is the time's that people make their switch. If players are switching votes at key moments during the day (i.e. to put one player ahead of another) or if we see a random group of people all vote at once, this needs to be documented and taken note of.
I really hope people read Ver's post about spamming the thread. And I hope people also read what I've said on this matter. Nobody Cares Syndrome is spreading fast throughout this mafia game, and it's only hurting the town. Although I suggest anything less than 5 lines of written text be ignored or forbidden. Heaven forbid we all have to read through 20 pages of posts every time we check on the thread.
The fact that people are spamming is contributing to the fact that some people are inactive. There are definitely players in this game who are usually contributing or posting more than they are right now. What is probably the case, is that they don't want to read through a couple dozen of pages. This is bad because these people get thrown into the "inactives" and are now near the top of the suspects list. In reality, these people are just intimidated by the number of posts they have to read through, which contributes to the number of inactive people altogether. Separating these groups of people will ultimately help us find the mafia.
On February 16 2010 13:24 Iaaan wrote:
5/6. Redtooth and Malongo are medic/townie, and either 1 mafia hits malongo, or neither mafia do.
On February 16 2010 13:05 Iaaan wrote:
On second thought, the mafia would want to show the town that Redtooth is mafia (if he is mafia), since the easiest way to kill him is through the town lynch, instead of having to kill the BG's first.
oh hey guess what? NOBODY CARES!
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Case in point, LucasWoJ's post right above mine.
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This whole "tipping the scale" thing really isn't a problem at all.
I wish you guys would stop fear-mongering. We take out as many mafia as we can to start the game. Period.
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roleclaiming medic could potentially be bad, in the middle game, but noone is dumb enough to kill the only thing that could save your family later...
i'd say find a good argument , but there isn't one if you really think about it.
both mafias can't afford to lose them right now
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No, RC'ing medic at any stage of the game is bad. There is no difference between someone who's known to be a medic at the beginning of the game or one at the end. Both can be used in whatever way each mafia family sees best for them at any stage of the game (whether that be at the beginning or at the end). The town has the advantage of being able to stall until we've killed eight from both sides. Why not keep that advantage?
You're argument doesn't really make sense, BM.
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On February 17 2010 06:32 Scamp wrote:
This whole "tipping the scale" thing really isn't a problem at all.
I wish you guys would stop fear-mongering. We take out as many mafia as we can to start the game.
When did I ever say I don't want to kill mafia? Don't put words into my mouth.
I am saying that mafia won't hit medics because they can't afford to lose them, and they can't afford to waste hits.
they can't afford to lose them because of late game scenarios and they will try to use any opportunity to steal away the towns protection and protect their own members from getting hits put on them from the other mafia.
the mafia can't afford to waste their hits on people that they don't know aren't mafia, or people that they don't at least suspect. the mafia's goal is obviously to eliminate the other mafia while not getting reduced to a critical number theirselves.
that being said, with 10 mafia members on either side, i am all for killing anyone who is red right now.
we're 0/1, though, so let's try to do some better analysis next time.
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noone would kill a confirmed medic, claiming medic is just a risk because the other family might think the "medic" is mafia trying to claim.
A legit medic wouldn't be hit because from the mafia's point of view, any hit that's not on the other family is a miss.
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On February 17 2010 06:39 LucasWoJ wrote:
No, RC'ing medic at any stage of the game is bad. There is no difference between someone who's known to be a medic at the beginning of the game or one at the end. Both can be used in whatever way each mafia family sees best for them at any stage of the game (whether that be at the beginning or at the end). The town has the advantage of being able to stall until we've killed eight from both sides. Why not keep that advantage?
You're argument doesn't really make sense, BM.
you're saying that the mafia will be able to use them if they come into the spotlight?
that's the time they WON'T get benefits from them.
I would contend that YOUR argument makes no sense.
If medics will not be killed for roleclaiming, they can roleclaim.
Mafia A could need the medics later on to survive.
Mafia B could need the medics later on to survive.
The town could need the medics later on to survive.
Mafia A can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later.
Mafia B can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later.
The town can not lynch the medics because they need to keep both mafias alive.
The medics will not be killed.
It is OK to roleclaim to be a medic.
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Not related to anything, but perhaps funny enough to share here: my first ever post to Bill was on the TL Chess Game 2 against lightman last year, when he (surprisingly!) wasn't making much sense:
On December 12 2009 01:52 citi.zen wrote:
Bill Murray = lightman's agent infiltrated on our team :-)
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On February 17 2010 06:41 Vivi57 wrote:
noone would kill a confirmed medic, claiming medic is just a risk because the other family might think the "medic" is mafia trying to claim.
A legit medic wouldn't be hit because from the mafia's point of view, any hit that's not on the other family is a miss.
err, not true. The following is an extremely simplified situation during which a "legit medic" would be hit.
Mafia 1 - 1 person left. Known to be mafia
Mafia 2 - 2 people left
1 Medic left. Medic protects the person known to be mafia which prevents mafia 2 from winning the game. Mafia 2 has to kill the medic in order to win.
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On February 17 2010 06:45 citi.zen wrote:Not related to anything, but perhaps funny enough to share here: my first ever post to Bill was on the TL Chess Game 2 against lightman last year, when he (surprisingly!) wasn't making much sense: Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 01:52 citi.zen wrote:
Bill Murray = lightman's agent infiltrated on our team :-)
NOBODY CARES!
lol i do, funny post, but the fact that i'm bad at chess has nothing to do with this
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On February 17 2010 03:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 03:07 Phrujbaz wrote:
Ver PMed me but to be honest it seemed like a good town player hunting an inactive rather than anything out of the ordinary. I have him pegged as "good player" because of it, I wouldn't make the link to "Mafia". Maybe you haven't played enough. But Ver does not like playing mafia in Pm's typically, nor do I. Just showerd, so I will go compare his posting to previous games, but he is playing VERy as per his normal play. get it?
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On February 16 2010 20:02 Ver wrote:
A few things to address:
-Quit spamming the thread. This is the most active game ever and it's seriously hindering the ability of a) reading important posts (they get buried) and b) forcing people to be accountable (accusations get buried). We seriously should start enforcing a rule (as players, not as host at least for this game) to ban 1 liners and any low content posts.
-My accusation of Empyrean was not final, it was a setup. He messed up but he had a chance to prove himself, which was not really granted given his and my inactivity. Rarely is it feasible to be able to declare someone mafia by analysis without any kind of response. This is why it is critical that when someone is accused with serious evidence backing it that we make them accountable and not just let them brush it off and ignore it.
It's astonishing despite how enormous this thread is, a large number of people have said virtually nothing or nothing of importance. More attention needs to be brought to light on this, as these people are seriously crippling our ability to gather information. I'm sure some of them are simply put off by how large this thread is since some people insist on spamming useless posts over and over again. We need to force these people to start talking and get real information out there.
I went through the thread and compiled a 'useless list' of people who haven't made any serious contribution this game. A certain few are not there for various reasons, though it is possible I may have forgotten some. If you're on this list, better start posting and giving the best contribution you can if you want to help the town win.
Phrujbaz
quickstriker
shikyo
Opz
Decaf
amber
Xelin
Nikoner
tree.hugger
MasterDana
JohnnySpazz
Ohn
Tredmasta
l10f
Faronel
Nemy
Shockeyy
Scamp
Cynanmachae
Sidesprang
Fishball
Abenson
If you feel you are on this list unjustly, prove me wrong about your uselessness.
Me jumping into the middle of this mess is not going to happen.
Never have in previous games, and never will.
I don't speak for others, but take it or leave it.
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On February 17 2010 06:46 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 06:45 citi.zen wrote:Not related to anything, but perhaps funny enough to share here: my first ever post to Bill was on the TL Chess Game 2 against lightman last year, when he (surprisingly!) wasn't making much sense: On December 12 2009 01:52 citi.zen wrote:
Bill Murray = lightman's agent infiltrated on our team :-) NOBODY CARES! lol i do, funny post, but the fact that i'm bad at chess has nothing to do with this
The relevance is this: from this point forward, I am no longer reading any of your posts. Maybe if a thoughtful reviewer quotes you, I will consider it.
That is all.
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On February 17 2010 06:43 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 06:39 LucasWoJ wrote:
No, RC'ing medic at any stage of the game is bad. There is no difference between someone who's known to be a medic at the beginning of the game or one at the end. Both can be used in whatever way each mafia family sees best for them at any stage of the game (whether that be at the beginning or at the end). The town has the advantage of being able to stall until we've killed eight from both sides. Why not keep that advantage?
You're argument doesn't really make sense, BM. you're saying that the mafia will be able to use them if they come into the spotlight? that's the time they WON'T get benefits from them. I would contend that YOUR argument makes no sense. If medics will not be killed for roleclaiming, they can roleclaim. Mafia A could need the medics later on to survive. Mafia B could need the medics later on to survive. The town could need the medics later on to survive. Mafia A can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later. Mafia B can not lynch the medics to lower its KP and in case it needs to survive later. The town can not lynch the medics because they need to keep both mafias alive. The medics will not be killed. It is OK to roleclaim to be a medic.
They would "use" them in the sense that they would have greater control over their deaths. Refer to my previous post for an example of that. I think my argument is cleared up a little bit by the example.
BM, medics might very well be killed for roleclaiming, just not immediately. The time when they RC doesn't matter because that action, at any point, might result in making the mafia's job easier (that job being finding the medics protecting the other mafia family and sniping them).
Am I being clear?
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you'd be more clear if you posted it logically
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or refuted any of what i said
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i understand that in a VERY UNLIKELY scenario it can be bad, so don't use that again please.
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So I was compiling a list of times and votes, (including vote changes), but I have to go now and probably won't have time to finish for a while.... So I thought I would post what I had so far, which is about halfway through page 4 if someone else wants to finish. Some patterns I noticed at the beginning was a massive vote for Citi.zen, and then everyone took there vote away, then alot of votes for ver, but then some of those got changed.
Enjoy:
+ Show Spoiler +07:30. Voting begins
7:56 Chezinu - BC
08:14 Chezinu - Citi.zen
9:18 Iaaan - abstain
10:00 Malongo - l10f
10:17 sidesprang - abstain
10:33 Bill Murray - Meeple
10:53 DoctorHelvetica - l10f
11:16 BloodyC0bbler - Ver
11:48 Caller - Ace
12:19 Abenson - abstain
12:16 Iaaan - abstain to L
12:44 Fulgrim - Ver
13:05 Abenson - abstain to Ace
13:19 Chezinu - Citi.zen to redtooth
13:41 Fishball - Citi.zen
13:55 l10f - abstain
14:26 Faronel - Citi.zen
15:01 redtooth - abstain
15:10 Ace - abstain
15:12 Mystlord - abstain
15:22 DoctorHelvetica - l10f to Citi.zen
18:00 MasterDana - Citi.zen
18:03 Chezinu - redtooth to Citi.zen
20:15 Ver - abstain
20:41 Bill Murray - meeple to Ver
21:36 Nikoner - abstain
22:19 ~OpZ~ - L
23:48 Amber[LighT] - Ver
2:59 madnessman - L
4:09 dozko - Citi.zen
5:43 Vivi57- Ver
5:47 ShoCkeyy - abstain
5:48 QuickStriker - abstain
6:24 johnnyspazz - abstain
6:49 Zato-1 - L
7:24 Chezinu - Citi.zen to redtooth
8:20 citi.zen - doctorhelvetica
8:36 [NyC]HoBbes - Citi.zen
8:43 Phrujbaz - abstain
8:58 789 - Citi.zen
9:09 Scamp - L
9:19 Fulgrim - Ver to DrH
9:53 Foolishness - abstain
10:01 LucasWoJ - abstain
10:23 SugiuraMidori - abstain
10:37 XeliN - Ver
11:13 Shikyo - abstain
11:18 DoctorHelvetica - Citi.zen to L
11:27 789 - Citi.zen to abstain
11:43 decafchicken - Ace
11:53 Bill Murray - Ver to Ace
12:04 tree.hugger - Ver
12:38 Bill Murray - Ace to tree.hugger
13:04 tree.hugger - Ver to DrH
13:37 [NyC]HoBbes - Citi.zen to abstain
13:40 d3_crescentia - abstain
13:40 CynanMachae - abstain
14:35 Bill Murray - tree.hugger to abstain
14:38 L - abstain
14:45 Chezinu -redtooth to BM
14:49 redtooth - abstain to L
15:12 Foolishness - abstain to BM
15:46 BloodyC0bbler - Ver to abstain
16:19 Ver - abstain to redtooth
17:35 Ace - abstain to redtooth
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EPT
