Groups Two groups of 4 teams randomly seeded. Double Round Robin Bo1. Winner of each group advances to Play-In Knockout.
Knockout Two teams from Play-In Group Stage randomly paired against two seeded teams from Taiwan (LMS) and Vietnam (VCS). All matches are Bo5 Winners qualify for Group Stage.
Group Stage
Two teams from Play In and four seeded teams from Korea (LCK), China (LPL), North America (NA LCS) and Europe (EU LCS). Double Round Robin Bo1. Top four teams advance to Knockout Stage
Knockout Stage
Four teams Single Elimination 1st place team from Group Stage selects either the 3rd place or 4th place team as their opponent. All matches are Bo5.
LCK (Korea): Kingzone Dragon X LPL (China): Royal Never Give Up LMS (Taiwan): Flash Wolves EU LCS: Fnatic NA LCS: Team Liquid CBLoL (Brazil): Kabum! e-Sports OPL (Oceania): Dire Wolves LCL (CIS): Gambit Esports LJL (Japan): Pentagram CLS (Latin America South): Kaos Latin Gamers LLN: (Latin America North): Rainbow7 GPL (South East Asia): Ascension Gaming VCS (Vietnam): EVOS Esports TCL (Turkey): SuperMassive eSports
On May 05 2018 02:01 AlterKot wrote: I actually thought they would handle this better, but I'll chalk it up to the OCE team apparently preparing really hard for them and nerves.
Does prep really hard = trolling the draft phase and the OCE team's top laner and adc inting furiously?
For now, I see DW as a possible underdog, but they've been in this situation so often, I can't trust an OCE team. They pretty much have to beat SuperMassive on Sunday.
this is why you don't pick Nocturne. You don't get that first ult kill the games actually just over.
I mean, it went insanely bad instead of just not getting a kill, but you dont get that first kill every decent jungler will just out temp you so hard and the game snowballs on you out of control. The 92% KP Skarner.
God damn these teamfights are so short. People are exploding the second they get "caught" which half the time is being nicked by an AOE slow. Like, CC duration doesn't even really matter now in the midgame, its just a question of landing an incidental on the right target for .5 secs.
So apparently there are people on reddit who think that Xiaohu is not a good midlaner, and Caps is much better. I'm just curious if anyone here actually agrees with that sentiment, because I sure as hell don't. Similar story with FW vs GMB, I didn't even bother watching the play in because I just sort of assumed FW was going to make it through, even if it's their weakest iteration yet (is it? I haven't watched the games).
I'm predicting Fnatic is going to start strong while TL will look terrible, but they'll play each other for the decisive tiebreaker, which Fnatic will lose, ending in 4th and getting knocked out by KZ. RNG will stomp TL, and then we'll watch the slow, painful execution of Uzi as he magically carries his team to a single win but ultimately doesn't have what it takes to beat Peanut and friends.
On May 10 2018 03:14 DarkCore wrote: So apparently there are people on reddit who think that Xiaohu is not a good midlaner, and Caps is much better. I'm just curious if anyone here actually agrees with that sentiment, because I sure as hell don't. Similar story with FW vs GMB, I didn't even bother watching the play in because I just sort of assumed FW was going to make it through, even if it's their weakest iteration yet (is it? I haven't watched the games).
I'm predicting Fnatic is going to start strong while TL will look terrible, but they'll play each other for the decisive tiebreaker, which Fnatic will lose, ending in 4th and getting knocked out by KZ. RNG will stomp TL, and then we'll watch the slow, painful execution of Uzi as he magically carries his team to a single win but ultimately doesn't have what it takes to beat Peanut and friends.
I'm just hoping for Flash Wolves to knock either Fnatic or TL out of the top 4, I even saw people saying Caps was better than BDD on reddit so...
I was just so surprised because the guy says he watched LPL, and I honestly thought Xiaohu was doing work this season, his roaming plays are fantastic, he pretty much never loses lane, and he is good at team fighting. I felt he outperformed Scout and Xiye this season too when you look at total performance, RNG was never going to win the league if they didn't have a worldclass mid laner who can contain EDG/iG/WE. RNG is not the Uzi one man show, he's the playmaker who finally has a team that doesn't let him down.
I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I was just so surprised because the guy says he watched LPL, and I honestly thought Xiaohu was doing work this season, his roaming plays are fantastic, he pretty much never loses lane, and he is good at team fighting. I felt he outperformed Scout and Xiye this season too when you look at total performance, RNG was never going to win the league if they didn't have a worldclass mid laner who can contain EDG/iG/WE. RNG is not the Uzi one man show, he's the playmaker who finally has a team that doesn't let him down.
Saying caps, bdd and maple are on another level compared to xiaohu is just weird. Also the combination caps, bdd and maple strike me as very odd. I have to say that I didn't watch all the games, and what I saw was mostly during the start of the split. I'll just watch some more play-off games to be sure.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
I think that's because TL has the least cool story lines of any team coming. Will Kingzone perfect run the tournament, redeeming them for their embarrassing lose at worlds? How far can Uzi bring RNG? Can Evos be the next GAM? Can neutered Flash Wolves make the same dent in the tournament the famous line up did? How well will the kings of Europe fair?
TL is just sort of there. No one on the team is the best in their role at the tournament, no one is a rookie, we've seen everyone here on the world stage before. I think everyone just accepts TL is going to get 3rd/4th in the groups and lose to RNG/KZ in brackets.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
I think that's because TL has the least cool story lines of any team coming. Will Kingzone perfect run the tournament, redeeming them for their embarrassing lose at worlds? How far can Uzi bring RNG? Can Evos be the next GAM? Can neutered Flash Wolves make the same dent in the tournament the famous line up did? How well will the kings of Europe fair?
TL is just sort of there. No one on the team is the best in their role at the tournament, no one is a rookie, we've seen everyone here on the world stage before. I think everyone just accepts TL is going to get 3rd/4th in the groups and lose to RNG/KZ in brackets.
No, I get why TL doesn't get much hype. I just think its funny how Fnatic gets a disproportionate amount of hype for simply being 'best of EU' when their only challenge is the former shell of G2. I just don't see what is there to be so excited over in regards to Fnatic and its players (relative to their hype).
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
I think that's because TL has the least cool story lines of any team coming. Will Kingzone perfect run the tournament, redeeming them for their embarrassing lose at worlds? How far can Uzi bring RNG? Can Evos be the next GAM? Can neutered Flash Wolves make the same dent in the tournament the famous line up did? How well will the kings of Europe fair?
TL is just sort of there. No one on the team is the best in their role at the tournament, no one is a rookie, we've seen everyone here on the world stage before. I think everyone just accepts TL is going to get 3rd/4th in the groups and lose to RNG/KZ in brackets.
No, I get why TL doesn't get much hype. I just think its funny how Fnatic gets a disproportionate amount of hype for simply being 'best of EU' when their only challenge is the former shell of G2. I just don't see what is there to be so excited over in regards to Fnatic and its players (relative to their hype).
its potentially Bwipo's debut on an international stage after winning the finals. There's plenty of story lines to use to hype up Fnatic. Yes, as someone who watched the league I agree that their biggest challenge was a gimped G2, but we're talking about your average redditor here
EDIT: You know you might just be on to something, I'm watching a vod of hotline league and a caller just said Fnatic will "lose 1 game to KZ in groups then take it to 5 games in the finals"
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
#1. If you don't think the media/average fan forgets how good his teammates are, just look at what they said about Bosh, or say about Love now. Same with PG3 this year or Dipo last year with WB. They become an offense unto themselves.
#2. I Agree with your Faker Lulu comments, but how many times did you see the #1 Reddit thread say he needs to be on carries more? Its the clowns vs people who actually watch games. Same as always
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
I think that's because TL has the least cool story lines of any team coming. Will Kingzone perfect run the tournament, redeeming them for their embarrassing lose at worlds? How far can Uzi bring RNG? Can Evos be the next GAM? Can neutered Flash Wolves make the same dent in the tournament the famous line up did? How well will the kings of Europe fair?
TL is just sort of there. No one on the team is the best in their role at the tournament, no one is a rookie, we've seen everyone here on the world stage before. I think everyone just accepts TL is going to get 3rd/4th in the groups and lose to RNG/KZ in brackets.
No, I get why TL doesn't get much hype. I just think its funny how Fnatic gets a disproportionate amount of hype for simply being 'best of EU' when their only challenge is the former shell of G2. I just don't see what is there to be so excited over in regards to Fnatic and its players (relative to their hype).
Its Fnatic's first MSI, its potentially Bwipo's debut on an international stage after winning the finals. There's plenty of story lines to use to hype up Fnatic. Yes, as someone who watched the league I agree that their biggest challenge was a gimped G2, but we're talking about your average redditor here
EDIT: You know you might just be on to something, I'm watching a vod of hotline league and a caller just said Fnatic will "lose 1 game to KZ in groups then take it to 5 games in the finals"
It's also TL's first MSI and Bwipo is pretty uninteresting since there isn't much that makes him unique. It just proved how bad the rest of EU are compared to Fnatic right now that they can win so easily without one of their most valuable players. Like I could also easily make similar story lines with TL, it's just that less people are really caring to. Whereas for Fnatic it seems they are willing to just make whatever up.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
#1. If you don't think the media/average fan forgets how good his teammates are, just look at what they said about Bosh, or say about Love now. Same with PG3 this year or Dipo last year with WB. They become an offense unto themselves.
#2. I Agree with your Faker Lulu comments, but how many times did you see the #1 Reddit thread say he needs to be on carries more? Its the clowns vs people who actually watch games. Same as always
I'm not really disagreeing that the random viewer has shit opinions but that these guys you listed as examples demands as much resources as it sounds like.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
I think that's because TL has the least cool story lines of any team coming. Will Kingzone perfect run the tournament, redeeming them for their embarrassing lose at worlds? How far can Uzi bring RNG? Can Evos be the next GAM? Can neutered Flash Wolves make the same dent in the tournament the famous line up did? How well will the kings of Europe fair?
TL is just sort of there. No one on the team is the best in their role at the tournament, no one is a rookie, we've seen everyone here on the world stage before. I think everyone just accepts TL is going to get 3rd/4th in the groups and lose to RNG/KZ in brackets.
No, I get why TL doesn't get much hype. I just think its funny how Fnatic gets a disproportionate amount of hype for simply being 'best of EU' when their only challenge is the former shell of G2. I just don't see what is there to be so excited over in regards to Fnatic and its players (relative to their hype).
Its Fnatic's first MSI, its potentially Bwipo's debut on an international stage after winning the finals. There's plenty of story lines to use to hype up Fnatic. Yes, as someone who watched the league I agree that their biggest challenge was a gimped G2, but we're talking about your average redditor here
EDIT: You know you might just be on to something, I'm watching a vod of hotline league and a caller just said Fnatic will "lose 1 game to KZ in groups then take it to 5 games in the finals"
It's also TL's first MSI and Bwipo is pretty uninteresting since there isn't much that makes him unique. It just proved how bad the rest of EU are compared to Fnatic right now that they can win so easily without one of their most valuable players. Like I could also easily make similar story lines with TL, it's just that less people are really caring to. Whereas for Fnatic it seems they are willing to just make whatever up.
On May 10 2018 05:04 cLutZ wrote: I feel like players around Uzi get denigrated much like players around Lebron or Westbrook do. Look, if someone demands tons of resources, and your team wins, the rest of the players gonna look like mere role players. Even Faker looks pedestrian on A-Sol or Lulu sometimes.
I get your point but your examples are pretty bad imo
Lebron's a ball handler but he doesn't 'demand' resources. He is forced to carry a lot, especially this playoffs. Westbrook kinda, but Melo just sucks balls. Faker's lulu has always been at worst, top 2 lulu in the world and as a lulu main back then I don't ever recall thinking his lulu looked pedestrian. Pretty much learned something new from him every time.
I think in the case of Uzi, his reputation is just much more well known and well regarded compared to his counterparts and redditors dont exactly watch LPL so they of course will just attribute most of the success to Uzi without really watching the games. Not to mention all the ADC hype lately around MSI and a bunch of interviews coming out talking about how good Uzi is.
On caps/fnatic, I really feel like reddit is overrating them more than they did other LCS teams. TL's hype doesn't seem to be anywhere close.
#1. If you don't think the media/average fan forgets how good his teammates are, just look at what they said about Bosh, or say about Love now. Same with PG3 this year or Dipo last year with WB. They become an offense unto themselves.
#2. I Agree with your Faker Lulu comments, but how many times did you see the #1 Reddit thread say he needs to be on carries more? Its the clowns vs people who actually watch games. Same as always
I'm not really disagreeing that the random viewer has shit opinions but that these guys you listed as examples demands as much resources as it sounds like.
By resources, in the NBA context, I would say, "needs to have the ball in his hands, and doesn't fit into a standard offensive system/refuses to play in one."
Mayeb I’m late to this, but just watched Vietnam vs Turkey and those were some very exciting fun games to watch.
Some highlights were the graves play in the later games and the Camille / Trundle combos in game 1.
I hadn’t seen that before but it was some crazy 2 man ganks where someone is in the middle of lane looking safe then all of a sudden camille is hook shooting off a pillar that wasn’t there a second ago. Brutal!
On May 11 2018 21:25 Ansibled wrote: I don't get what TL's draft is supposed to be but considering how they can't kill Ezreal even without Karma being there I don't think it's good.
It's just a bit sad to me how bad LCS regions are continually while showing almost no improvement. I'd be fine if they had off years then changed and got stronger but instead it's like every year they just reset to the same bad shit.
Just watched most of the VODs, I did skip TL vs EVOS since I expected it to be a clean win for TL, so have to go back and watch that.
Fnatic vs RNG was entertaining for the Yasuo pick going off, but Rekkles played poorly, he was so afraid, Uzi just rolled over him in lane and then did the same in team fights. Hope he's more confident tomorrow.
KZ vs TL went better than I expected, I thought it was going to be something close to a perfect game for KZ. But TL made some major mistakes, like not banning Ezreal.
Which brings me to KZ vs RNG, where exactly the same happened. I know Ezreal isn't exactly bannable and it leaves other stuff up, but Pray is literally a god on the champ, and Uzi can play him quite well, so please take it away. Also, I thought we had gotten away from 4 TP meta, I hope this is a pocket strategy and won't become standard, it completely kills the game.
so i guess TL is subbing out Olleh and putting in their academy support Joey, I really cannot see how subbing in a academy support will make anything better
On May 12 2018 09:18 starkiller123 wrote: so i guess TL is subbing out Olleh and putting in their academy support Joey, I really cannot see how subbing in a academy support will make anything better
RIP TL, I completely agree with you. Although this can't be something they didn't as a possible eventuality, Joey was their sub at finals too.
Am I the only one who thinks that "Protect the Ez" draft by Kingzone was trash? Seemed to me they lose to a team that is 5% better than TL, just it was them saying, "eh we will just be super safe and y'all will int at us'
On May 12 2018 15:11 cLutZ wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that "Protect the Ez" draft by Kingzone was trash? Seemed to me they lose to a team that is 5% better than TL, just it was them saying, "eh we will just be super safe and y'all will int at us'
Idk. You have windows that it can be abused. Kingzone are just banking that the teams they're playing against aren't good enough to abuse it. what's most surprising is that they revealed this on DAY ONE. what the fuck have they got planned for the finals then?!?!
On May 12 2018 15:11 cLutZ wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that "Protect the Ez" draft by Kingzone was trash? Seemed to me they lose to a team that is 5% better than TL, just it was them saying, "eh we will just be super safe and y'all will int at us'
Idk. You have windows that it can be abused. Kingzone are just banking that the teams they're playing against aren't good enough to abuse it. what's most surprising is that they revealed this on DAY ONE. what the fuck have they got planned for the finals then?!?!
Probably a similar comp with a useful toplane. Idk, I'm pretty sure they are confident running Pray on Ez/Kai/Varus against anyone as thier "we aren't actually showing you anything" comps.
I mean, Jihn didn't have more than 1 useful ult in that game.
Tbh, big flaw weakness of Jhin ult is going aggressively into his team, preventing him from finding space to use it. Either means he has to disengage from the fight early, or just not use it. It's most powerful when the fight starts to end, no more ultimates or major CC to hit him, and he can just snipe people down. And KZ is never going to end up in that position, they're just too good.
On May 12 2018 17:19 DarkCore wrote: Tbh, big flaw weakness of Jhin ult is going aggressively into his team, preventing him from finding space to use it. Either means he has to disengage from the fight early, or just not use it. It's most powerful when the fight starts to end, no more ultimates or major CC to hit him, and he can just snipe people down. And KZ is never going to end up in that position, they're just too good.
Yup, the champ has developed so that those Jhin ults to start fights are rarer and very rarely work. People got better at playing around it + the removal of the CD return if you cancel it made it more punishing when you use it properly.
Nah, it was a really close hit by Rakan, legit pixels away from safe. Could've stayed safe and flashed, but that would also put him behind in lane.
Meanwhile rest of FNC is dumping on KZ, I did not expect this. Bwipo is actually winning top lane, and Peanut is ridiculously behind. And Rekkles is still even in cs.
That first blood and then the excellent snowball off of it was pretty much the perfect start, despite a few mistakes in bot lane.
I only saw one mistake in the bot lane, which was the Rekkles death. Did I miss something else?
Wasn't only Bwipo and Caps doing well, Hyli had some really powerful flanks and ults throughout the game. But Bwipo traded his ult for Pray's before pretty much every single fight, really fucked up his ability to get into fights against Caps, that combo pretty much won the game.
Yeah Fnatic played pretty much perfectly of the lvl 1 advantage except for the small mistake by Rekkles wen he got killed. Especially Bwipo was super impressive considering he was against Khan, looked like he tilted him. :D
Also all the team fights, map movements and TPs Bwipo really knew what he was doing. Pretty good with his still very limited experience.
Uzi/Ming are going to get a solo kill bot lane or 20+ cs lead by the 10 minute mark. Rekkles/Pray are good enough to lane against them, but this is going to be total destruction.
Caster mentioned it, but I swear I've seen this happen in LPL as well, it was so confusing to watch. Mlxg was loitering around for a few seconds as well, I thought he knew it was there and assumed a team mate would take it instead.
What a stomp, no one even really lost lane for EVOs, but had have 0 chance against RNG macro and raw talent. RNG just played the early safe and took what they could, then mowed them over in rotations and team fighting. Ez ran TP and still lost almost lost the tower pre-15.
TL is just flat out losing this game lol, who thought picking Yasuo was a good idea.
Yeah Joey sucked, but he didn't feed in lane. TL as a whole looked completely lost, they had 0 game plan and it was sad to watch. Yas pick was trash, getting pushed in whole laning phase as Cait, Xmithie exerting light pressure but not getting anything for it, TL looked god awful this game.
When I woke up and saw the results I was wondering how FNC could have possibly beaten KZ, but 2 minutes into the game I see it. They set up a cheese bush and it worked. Everyone is playing form ridiculously far ahead from level 1 on. I've paused the VOD. Is the rest of the game worth watching or should I switch to the other KZ game and the RNG games now?
It is worth watching because KZ didn't play badly, except for Khan, he legit inted. But Fnatic was able to keep Peanut massively behind, and they were able to play a very clean game. Worth watching if you want to see how Fnatic can play when ahead.
RNG games are not worth watching today, unless you're interested in how the results came about. Because FW is currently first at MSI, and I did not expect that. Looks like TL an EVOs are going to be the teams to not make playoffs, unless something changes next game.
On May 12 2018 22:59 Sent. wrote: Wew Flash Wolves keep winning (and ruining my liquibets). Is it more on them being good or their opponents underperforming?
Maple's playing too well. RNG kinda trolled PB tho.
Caps is such a massive pressure soak, and somehow manages to make plays with Bwipo and Broxah. He's looking like MVP player at MSI, real contender for Maple.
Lol yesterday yall be like „well TL sucks but I guess thats just white teams”, next day FNC leave the kids in the dumpster all like „youre on your own trashkids”.
It's just insane to me that a player "bombs out" after one day of not so great performance on an international stage forcing a rookie you haven't played a single match with to play. I can't wrap my head around it. I wonder how poor the atmosphere must be in the liquid camp right now.
Seeing FW bounce back from a poor year last year is cool to see. It's always more fun when you got more competitive teams.
On May 13 2018 00:21 AlterKot wrote: Lol yesterday yall be like „well TL sucks but I guess thats just white teams”, next day FNC leave the kids in the dumpster all like „youre on your own trashkids”.
I was convinced Fnatic is in much better shape than their day 1 results, but when I saw they got to play the Koreans next I pussied out and joined the Western "hype" train :D I need to have more faith in our guys.
OK, just watched KZ vs EVS. It looks very much like KZ went out to celebrate after a good day one and played day two with Peanut and Khan extremely hungover.
It looks like they hung peanut out to dry with a bad level 1 invade followed by no leash vs a jungler he can’t duel. Don’t need to make up some elaborate fanfic to explain why they couldn’t do shit till Kai’sa came online
Just finished watching Fnatic vs KZ, is Bwipo really that good or is Ornn busted as fuck? He did way better versus Khan than I would have ever expected
On May 13 2018 03:54 chipmonklord17 wrote: Just finished watching Fnatic vs KZ, is Bwipo really that good or is Ornn busted as fuck? He did way better versus Khan than I would have ever expected
IIRC, Orrn got a pretty big head start with first blood and, I believe, at the time of the solokill he was able to use his passive to get the parts for Abyssal while Khan greeded hard and didn't even shop yet.
So I'd say it was more a mix of Bwipo being set ahead from the lvl1 play and Khan playing super cocky.
Yeah, Rekkles trading objectives for team, that's something I've seen him do multiple times over his career, and I hate it. It often wins games, but if his team dies for one inhib, it means the game gets stalled. That's a big nono against KZ, I'd rather he stays grouped because that's what really gave them the advantage: Bwipo would ult Pray, Caps would go try to get on top of him, and Rekkles would be sitting in the backline damaging everyone while they were forced to deal with Caps.
Just realized that TL is 0-4, and they have their two hardest games today. This is hilarious.
Can someone explain to me why TL would pick Shen into Noc? Doesn't his ult completely blow on Shen??? Please tell me that's not what's going to happen, because Mlxg plays a mean Noc and RNG knows how to make the champion work.
Yeah, Cait was stupidly fed, bot lane solo won this game. Insane number of bindings getting hit in the early game, really poor play by Ming and Uzi, not something you see very often. Made the Noc pick completely useless, he wasted his first ult on Shen since bot was never going to get a kill, but they didn't get Impact either. Nice to see Olleh is back in form too, TL looked better.
TL threw at baron, but RNG did exactly the same. Don't know how Mlxg didn't secure it, he was a level up ffs.
On May 13 2018 18:21 DarkCore wrote: Can someone explain to me why TL would pick Shen into Noc? Doesn't his ult completely blow on Shen??? Please tell me that's not what's going to happen, because Mlxg plays a mean Noc and RNG knows how to make the champion work.
My guess its because Nocturne can't do anything to Shen under his W. TL predicted RNG will try to focus Impact early and it paid off.
Fnatic has no idea how to deal with Camille, Sion can't even hold the wave against her. If they had inhib towers it might be different, but they're missing 2 right now, gives Camille so much freedom.
Stark giveth, Stark taketh. But seriously, I don't think Vlad is supposed to ez 1vs1 Camille, now we know why he's such a big pick. Camille should've gone Executioner instead of GA imo.
On May 13 2018 20:01 DarkCore wrote: Fnatic has no idea how to deal with Camille, Sion can't even hold the wave against her. If they had inhib towers it might be different, but they're missing 2 right now, gives Camille so much freedom.
FNC need to keep caps on carries. You use asol to roam and enable your teammates. Rekkles has shown clearly he isn't gonna carry so it's just a bad pick.
Yeah, Pob has 0 impact on the game, which hurts to see when you get to watch Caps/Maple/BDD clearly carrying their games, even if they're losing.
Kindred????
KZ can play whatever they want vs TL, so long as they don't lose in the first 5 minutes it's autowin. RNG had to troll in bot lane to able to overcome the lack of macro play from TL.
idk what insider info scarra had but he mentioned on stream he wasn't surprised in the slightest by TL results and that from what he knows, TL didn't prepare nearly as well for MSI as they did for NA finals (and agreed with it basically saying that he thinks its better to not go too hard on MSI prep if it means not enough rest for players after finals). It sounded pretty unclear whether he meant that the prep was just ineffective due to some circumstances or if it was intentional to have less prep. Chat asked if it was an Olleh issue and he said no.
not sure that the rest wasn't enough since it was at least a month before playins - so they could have taken even 2-3 weeks off and still get 2-3 weeks prep.
but either way according to him, insiders aren't surprised at all and the only things kind of unexpected was TL losing to EVOS and TL beating RNG. With 1-5 being a fairly expected outcome.
On May 14 2018 02:35 Slusher wrote: I didn’t think this was possible on 8.8 but maybe Kai’sa is a trap pick for kz, they feel so weak as a team when pray has to wait on scaling
If they pick Kaisa, they need Peanut on an early game champ like olaf so he can pressure for pray. The team looks like a sack of potatoes if they don't have botside pressure.
On May 14 2018 08:48 dsyxelic wrote: idk what insider info scarra had but he mentioned on stream he wasn't surprised in the slightest by TL results and that from what he knows, TL didn't prepare nearly as well for MSI as they did for NA finals (and agreed with it basically saying that he thinks its better to not go too hard on MSI prep if it means not enough rest for players after finals). It sounded pretty unclear whether he meant that the prep was just ineffective due to some circumstances or if it was intentional to have less prep. Chat asked if it was an Olleh issue and he said no.
not sure that the rest wasn't enough since it was at least a month before playins - so they could have taken even 2-3 weeks off and still get 2-3 weeks prep.
but either way according to him, insiders aren't surprised at all and the only things kind of unexpected was TL losing to EVOS and TL beating RNG. With 1-5 being a fairly expected outcome.
I mean, you gotta remember DL had an emotional time during NA Playoffs. Maybe he lost a bit of desire? But in general, MSI doesn't mean TOO much I guess. Maybe they don't want to burn out?
It wouldn't surprise me if the TL staff decided to take things a notch down but not DL himself. It almost worried me how easily he seemed to have handled the situation (at least on camera) and he seemed very eager for MSI, more so than the other players.
On May 14 2018 08:48 dsyxelic wrote: idk what insider info scarra had but he mentioned on stream he wasn't surprised in the slightest by TL results and that from what he knows, TL didn't prepare nearly as well for MSI as they did for NA finals (and agreed with it basically saying that he thinks its better to not go too hard on MSI prep if it means not enough rest for players after finals). It sounded pretty unclear whether he meant that the prep was just ineffective due to some circumstances or if it was intentional to have less prep. Chat asked if it was an Olleh issue and he said no.
not sure that the rest wasn't enough since it was at least a month before playins - so they could have taken even 2-3 weeks off and still get 2-3 weeks prep.
but either way according to him, insiders aren't surprised at all and the only things kind of unexpected was TL losing to EVOS and TL beating RNG. With 1-5 being a fairly expected outcome.
I mean, you gotta remember DL had an emotional time during NA Playoffs. Maybe he lost a bit of desire? But in general, MSI doesn't mean TOO much I guess. Maybe they don't want to burn out?
DL is playing fine though?
I don't really get the whole "they didn't prepare that hard" angle. The mistakes the players are making are just fundamentals, surely in the weeks between finals and now they couldn't have regressed that much?
I think it's more likely a case of both their not being that strong compared to international teams and maybe not putting in as much effort as they could due to circumstances. KZ is looking pretty out of sync compared to their LCK run which may speak to them also taking it a bit easier but you can see still their fundamentals at work (outside of Khan) in most cases.
On May 14 2018 14:29 dsyxelic wrote: It wouldn't surprise me if the TL staff decided to take things a notch down but not DL himself. It almost worried me how easily he seemed to have handled the situation (at least on camera) and he seemed very eager for MSI, more so than the other players.
Everyone experiences loss in different ways. I know a friend of my who lost their mother when we were in Matric and he just took it in stride(At least openly). He'd always been a big goofy guy and just kept being that. When I got a phone call that my grandfather had just died it just didn't really hit me until I'm sitting in a bathroom balling my eyes out days later. I would be surprised if DL is just going hard into his work, that competitive aspect of his life just taking over more and more.
Edit: RNG showing some fight ... lol at Gorilla thinking he was being cute ulting the Ornn under his tower to prevent the Call of the Forge God waveclear only to find a Malz with ult up lurking just out of sight.
Edit2: Holy shit, RNG ace them only losing Xiaohu!
Edit3: UUUUUZZIIIIIIIII! Cannot believe how well Mlxg has bounced back after being two levels down and at like 9 cs to Graves' 40 early on.
This tournament is crazy lol. Idk what is going on. KZ had such a good early game lead and did absolutely nothing from it. By now at the latest there have to be serious doubts about them.
TL has to beat either FW or RNG to even force tiebreak, while Fnatic has to only beat EVOs to make it through.
I don't like zoe, watching her is not fun and she never seems that good.
Champ is cancer, I really hate that she's seeing play again. You never feel like Zoe plays are special or difficult, just that they completely turn fights and games around. Caps legit died at his tower to a random bubble from his own jungle, nobody expects that kind of stuff, even if you're a pro.
That said, giving Uzi Kai'sa twice today was a much bigger mistake, hope nobody is dumb enough to let that through again.
On May 15 2018 02:07 JimmiC wrote: If TL beat both and Fnatic only beat EVOs that would also be a tie breaker. But in the end it is likely going to be that TL lost to EVO's and Fnatic didn't being the difference to who moves on to lose in the semi's.
Yeah, that's true, but I don't consider it at all likely, hence I didn't mention it. TL would have to pull some sort of crazy new macro feats that they haven't shown once in this tournament.
On May 15 2018 17:48 AdsMoFro wrote: Went full meme for my Liquibets for today. Cya Top-10!
I don't have time to watch the games with timezones so I just vote based on hunches and previous results... and every day just baffles me. First FW destroy everyone and RNG shits the bed, then the reverse happens with Fnatic cheesing the top teams and losing to TL to further the point.
I find it interesting that Fnatic could have easily been the last place team in this tournament if it wasn't for some standout individual performances in 2-3 games. Now those performances aren't happening so playing 3v5 just costs them so much every time. Fnatic botlane are just by far the worst bot lane in the tournament. You can't afford that to be the case in professional league at an international level.
Caps popping off and Rekkles finally having a decent game is probably going to win FNC this game, barring a massive throw.
Edit:
Pobelter not going Banner first, Caps roaming 24/7, and Impact losing a Vlad vs. GP lane means that TL can't win. Looks like the "forever 4th" meme is finally broken.
On May 16 2018 01:31 Kinie wrote: Caps popping off and Rekkles finally having a decent game is probably going to win FNC this game, barring a massive throw.
I can understand going Tear first for lane phase, but after that he needed to rush Banner and throw it down every chance he gets.
Pobelter is the weakest link in TL and I won't be surprised if we see TL make a shift there for Summer Split.
Edit:
Also, the drafting from TL in the RNG game and this FNC game was very weird. Deny themselves the Karma flex option, go for carry top when Impact has been slightly underperforming, and not banning Taliyah who has proven to be one of the best mid champions at the tournament.
On May 15 2018 23:30 Uldridge wrote: DL just keeps being out of position...
That cause he sucks and can't play a champ like Kog.
Also what is AD?!
No it's because RNG have a massive engage with Ornn and TL picked Janna despite hovering Braum for 15 seconds. There's actually nothing he can do when his team isn't interested in playing the game.
Turns out Pobelter goes back to not existing when you ban Malz.
Best thing about this tournament is that aggression wins games. And of course that it is a real competition where no one is unbeatable. Awesome stuff so far.
On May 15 2018 23:30 Uldridge wrote: DL just keeps being out of position...
That cause he sucks and can't play a champ like Kog.
Also what is AD?!
No it's because RNG have a massive engage with Ornn and TL picked Janna despite hovering Braum for 15 seconds. There's actually nothing he can do when his team isn't interested in playing the game.
Turns out Pobelter goes back to not existing when you ban Malz.
Oh your comment was the previous game. Same applies to this one :p
On May 16 2018 01:40 Kinie wrote: I can understand going Tear first for lane phase, but after that he needed to rush Banner and throw it down every chance he gets.
Pobelter is the weakest link in TL and I won't be surprised if we see TL make a shift there for Summer Split.
Which would also mean a change on support because of import slots. Although support change is more likely anyway (that one is almost sure imo).
Next season TL situation will be different with Impact becoming resident and which is the reason why he was so expensive in the first place.
On May 16 2018 01:42 chipmonklord17 wrote: We could live in a world where the finals of MSI is Fnatic vs FW, what a time to be alive
You say that, but Uzi wants an international title so bad that I think he's going to 1v9 the entire tournament.
It could just as easily be RNG vs KZ, or RNG vs FW, or Fnatic vs KZ. But if you told me at the beginning of the tournament there's a series chance that FWs and Fnatic make finals I would have laughed
On May 16 2018 01:42 chipmonklord17 wrote: We could live in a world where the finals of MSI is Fnatic vs FW, what a time to be alive
You say that, but Uzi wants an international title so bad that I think he's going to 1v9 the entire tournament.
It could just as easily be RNG vs KZ, or RNG vs FW, or Fnatic vs KZ. But if you told me at the beginning of the tournament there's a series chance that FWs and Fnatic make finals I would have laughed
Either or both? I think one making the finals wasn't that far fetched
On May 16 2018 01:42 chipmonklord17 wrote: We could live in a world where the finals of MSI is Fnatic vs FW, what a time to be alive
You say that, but Uzi wants an international title so bad that I think he's going to 1v9 the entire tournament.
It could just as easily be RNG vs KZ, or RNG vs FW, or Fnatic vs KZ. But if you told me at the beginning of the tournament there's a series chance that FWs and Fnatic make finals I would have laughed
Can RNG not choose their opponent now? Which would mean the semis are RNG and KZ vs Fnatic and FW respectively. Very unlikely that both underdogs win.
In any case RNG look like the best team by quite a margin now imo.
On May 16 2018 01:42 chipmonklord17 wrote: We could live in a world where the finals of MSI is Fnatic vs FW, what a time to be alive
You say that, but Uzi wants an international title so bad that I think he's going to 1v9 the entire tournament.
It could just as easily be RNG vs KZ, or RNG vs FW, or Fnatic vs KZ. But if you told me at the beginning of the tournament there's a series chance that FWs and Fnatic make finals I would have laughed
Either or both? I think one making the finals wasn't that far fetched
Everyone said that FW without Karsa would be hot garbage
Well Stunt isn't on Flyquest anymore, but at the same time I don't know what the deal with that guy is, every team benches him with a winning record.Probably the best fit for him is Optic, since he's played with Arrow before, but Arrow benched him too so idk
Finally got a chance to watch today's games, boy what a fiesta. FNC really falling short, luckily POB decided to play boring Karma again, completely outclassed by Caps in terms of map presence. And FW beat KZ again, that's pretty crazy.
In any case RNG look like the best team by quite a margin now imo.
As someone who loves RNG and LPL, I still wouldn't consider them favorites, I still think KZ will take it. RNG have looked very good the last two days, and Uzi is in top form, but if KZ gets their act together they will will the tournament. Besides, FW is looking great too, and Fnatic has a decent shot of making it to finals.
NA has a tragic history of doing expected against regions generally viewed as better (Korea/China), okay against regions around its level(LMS, EU), and then slightly below expected against Vietnam and Wildcards.
That last bit is often the sticking point that fucks them, since NA's performance abberates down, while LMS and, mostly, EU tends to abberate up.
As a human who watches League of Legends, I have not seen League of Legends played as it has been in this group stage for quite some time. This makes me both happy and suspicious.
I am glad to see teams snowballing lane dominance (even without kills) into victories. I am suspicious that this is all just a result of patches + best of one. If its just the game focusing more on laning at the pro level, count me in as stoked. I am tired of games that are 20k vs. 20k where I know one team just needs to stall more, and also tired of a team dominating for a mere 21k to 20k lead. On the other hand, if Kingzone comes back and wins it all and/or this trend reverses, Riot needs to end BO1 forever.
Playstyles have to change, you can't always play let DL carry the game at international events, you won't always get to farm up. And the synergy issues of DL/Olleh we saw all split were huge here. Just one win in the first 2 days would have gotten TL out of groups, but Olleh tilting off the Earth cost it big.
On May 16 2018 16:17 amd098 wrote: Playstyles have to change, you can't always play let DL carry the game at international events, you won't always get to farm up. And the synergy issues of DL/Olleh we saw all split were huge here. Just one win in the first 2 days would have gotten TL out of groups, but Olleh tilting off the Earth cost it big.
But this tournament was going to be so heavily bot lane focused because in the pro scene right now, ADC and supports are insanely strong, being able to hit 1-2 item power spikes pre-20 minutes and then take Baron to snowball that lead into map control. It's not like in prior international tournaments where top lane could be a split push threat (via 4-1 or 1-3-1 compositions) and mid lane still hasn't had the AP item rework hit yet which changes a lot of the mages.
It's also not like other tournaments where mid lane dominance can equal an insta-kill pickoff into map objective via an assassin champion like Zed or Leblanc. Caps popping off like he did is really the exception to the current trend, but even he is taking mages who have a fast roam and can hit top and/or bottom with 3-4 man turret dives when they hit level 6, and this was a thing you started to see get picked up by the other regions as the tournament went on.
TL getting Pobelter to perform on Malz ended up being a false flag for NA fans to hoist, because the moment it was banned or itemized against he went back to being useless and TL was trying to hop into the DL backpack.
It's sad too, because they should've realized that strategy was never going to work when enemy teams have Uzi or Pray, both far better than DL. Even Betty and Rekkles, when he feels like playing well, are strong ADC in their own right, DL can't just win the game by himself. Picking Karma mid just for the shields isn't going to cut it Pob, you'd be better off playing like Caps on Sol/Taliyah, roaming the map to get people ahead.
How is Pobelter supposed to play like Caps when he isn't even half as good? We saw Pobelters attempt to do thst already this tournament and he clearly can't. The best thing for him to do is play Malz Karma and hope that's enough for TL to not have a massive hole in the middle of the map.
Yeah well that's the problem, Pob isn't as good as Caps. But if all he can play is Malz Karma, then it means he needs to be benched. Mid lane has historically always been a high impact role, either by being the carry or getting the other lanes rolling, in fact I don't think it's been a farming lane since S2.
Mid laners need a deep understanding of how to roam and apply pressure on the map, and it looks like this is a fault of the TL coaching as well if they don't drill this stuff in Pobelter. We've seen Galio, Taliyah, Sol, Ryze getting picked because they have high roam potential. Karma is a good champion in the mid lane only when you play her very well, and that means applying pressure on the map because her shield is not good enough to solo win games. Watch Xiaohu play her, and watch the minimap because he often leaves lane even if there's no chance he'll get anything.
It's an ADC meta that revolves around applying pressure in the bot lane. We've seen multiple games where winning conditions were created by plays in the bot lane. Hell, even TL beat RNG solely because they got a massive lead in bot lane, and DL snowballed so hard he was two shotting Rakan/Noc. And to get that lead in bot lane, you need to apply pressure, maybe even get kills. Only Uzi/Ming consistently win lane by themselves, which forces teams to put even more priority into the lane.
its not that pob doesnt know how to roam, he was one of the best roaming mids in NA
he just got outplayed hard and never really had good opportunities too. the fact that he got behind in CS that game while caps was roaming on his ass just shows how badly he got outplayed both in lane and out of lane
I voted Uzi, but I wouldn't be surprised if Xiaohu carried games hard as well. That's when RNG is scariest, because Uzi will always do well when his team is also winning in other parts of the map.
Darkcore, since you and I made some posts before the tournament about reddit saying Caps was way better than Xiaohu, a question: has your mind changed at all about Caps? Not that he's much better than Xiaohu, but he seems better than I've seen earlier, and than I expected before the tournament.
He has expected much better than I expected, he is definitely contender for MVP in groups stage. But you might notice that RNG came a solid second place, and looked much better as a team in the latter days: Xiaohu was big reason for this change of pace, he started playing much cleaner again. Also, his macro play was not the thing that faltered, it was dying multiple times that made him seem to be playing badly, and being dead obviously hurts macro.
Xiaohu is also very good at roaming and applying pressure on the map. It's always interesting to watch the minimap in pro games, because these things aren't often shown since they're boring to watch when they don't stumble on a random opponent. But short of Fnatic winning their series, Xiaohu will look just as good or better than Caps. It's the matchup I'm looking forward to today, since I expect little to change in the bot lane.
When you pick Ezreal, the safest ADC, and not even you have a chance to get away from Irelia late game. She was 1vs3ing the backline in the final fight, although it was more Bwipo throwing the game again with a questionable engage.
I think it was partly lack of exhaust on TK, going ignite for laning power may be a mistake when you see 2 big divers on enemy team. Also Rekkles constantly using all his escapes to get away from TK instead of being devoured was a big mistake. If he just got devoured as they dove then had escapes after initial cooldowns are used it would have been a different story.
He basically gets hit by the ulti then flash/heals away even though Irelia still has a bladesurge up and now he's away from team. That's just playing against the diving irelia poorly.
I think last two games of Rekkles were his best games this tournament, at least in terms of proactive play. He finally decided that Uzi can't just bully him freely in the lane and they got kills. But FNC decided they would bring skirmishing to an LPL team, and RNG lives in a region with teams as bloodthirsty as iG and EDG. They didn't do that badly imo in the extended fights, but RNG would pull ahead overall.
Also, incredibly boring ADC matchups this series, Ez vs Cait every single game is pretty lackluster. Especiall because the games would always end the same, Uzi would farm and eventually outscale.
Xiaohu was clearly the series MVP for me. Caps is easily fNatic's best player and he neutralized him in G1/3 and made some very nice flanks in G2, even if it wasn't stellar. TBH, the only reason any of the games were close because of UZI misplays, so I don't think anyone would go that way. Plus, it was mostly just Cait doing Cait things.
What's the intent behind FW's draft? Olaf can't gank any lane since Vlad has no cc, Taliyah has cleanse and flash, and bot is Ezreal (with Morgana to boot). Galio will barely be able to follow Taliyah (and lose cs every time because she gets free waveclear) too.
Edit: I don't know the match-up at all, is Vlad supposed to be outfarmed, pushed under his tower and solokilled by a Cho'Gath? I thought Vlad'd be the one pushing?
On May 19 2018 22:37 Alaric wrote: What's the intent behind FW's draft? Olaf can't gank any lane since Vlad has no cc, Taliyah has cleanse and flash, and bot is Ezreal (with Morgana to boot). Galio will barely be able to follow Taliyah (and lose cs every time because she gets free waveclear) too.
Edit: I don't know the match-up at all, is Vlad supposed to be outfarmed, pushed under his tower and solokilled by a Cho'Gath? I thought Vlad's be the one pushing?
Olaf was last picked because FW had no idea what to do. SwordArt hovered Jarvan, Zac and Nidalee before locking Olaf and I think he wasn't doing it for fun.
Old cho was considered a counter to old Vlad because silence into q stalled pool long enough to be real gank assist or alternatively one shot him if ap. Also cho passive can keep up with Vlad q sustain. The concepts mostly still apply other the ap build doing significantly less damage now.
KZ are pretty much just walking in 4v5s several times in a row and feeding 2~4 kills instead of sacrificing someone, uh? Well that's underwhelming.
Yeah Pray's pushing top but BDD still stays mid almost dying (if not for Braum spending E's cooldown) and not they're jut gonna offer an inhib for free because they couldn't just give up mid t2. They're split pushing like they're CLG floundering around.
On May 20 2018 20:48 Alaric wrote: Could Uzi be banned out? RNG seem to mostly pick comps around protecting him as the main (sometimes sole) damage-dealer.
I wouldn't think so. I think it's been shown before that it isn't worth it to try to ban out ADCs that are world tier on them.
On May 20 2018 20:48 Alaric wrote: Could Uzi be banned out? RNG seem to mostly pick comps around protecting him as the main (sometimes sole) damage-dealer.
How? KZ could ban like Kaisa, Ezreal and Cait and then Uzi gets to first pick Xayah, Varus or Kog.
I guess it's a by-product of that AD carry meta too (but they were bitching again not like 1 month ago against tanks).
KZ keep failing to finish off people or running into outnumbered fights through corridor, that's not exactly an exciting match.
That fight in the top river bush with the Tahm ult away from the flank, then splitting up twice against different targets, and having to flash not to get flanked themselves thanks to their great positioning... This match is a joke.
And this Ezreal build is a joke too. I get that it's expensive but since they're allowed to free farm anyway, it doesn't matter and it's dumb how something so gold-inefficient on paper with the passives not stacking is still so strong.
On May 20 2018 21:40 Alaric wrote: KZ keep failing to finish off people or running into outnumbered fights through corridor, that's not exactly an exciting match.
Continuation of group stage performance, so I feel it is appropriate.
So basically he needs flash up and for them to clump? Illaoi is terrible at diving too. They've got no answer to Ornn ult too, either as initiation or in reaction to a Rakan initiation.
Not that it matters, they're gonna get shat on because they have absolutely 0 vision control. Khan's playing like your stereotypical splitpushing soloq top laner, under the enemy tower with 0 wards and getting collapsed on for free.
On May 20 2018 22:33 Alaric wrote: So basically he needs flash up and for them to clump?
I'm not sure what's your point here. Is there any champion in the game that can initiate on 5 champions if they don't clump? If you keep Olaf and Illaoi, what other champions would you have picked to get better iniation here?
Well... I'm not quite up to snuff on jungle meta right now, but there's got to be tanky junglers that can initiative and do'nt give up all early pressure aside from Skarner right now? Especially with Kaisa needing to be locked down (or Malz blown up before he ults I guess but his passive makes that hard). It's more "why pick Olaf?!" than "why not pick X?"
Also Illaoi needs set-up. She needs a nest of tentacles ready (and to get her ult off before she's cc'd so she can get damage in/heal a bit), and since she's not mobile at all that means if she starts running away when collapsed on while split-pushing, she can't really fight. She can't initiate nor follow a diver for the same reasons (well she can follow and flash ult in but without a flank or follow-up cc to prevent them from scattering/retreating out of the zone you end up 4v5 in terms of effectiveness).
She's more of a protector in a siege comp since you force them to dive you (and your nest) and you want to spend time in a single space (near the tower you're sieging) to set up and use E to "poke" people.
Here it worked... because RNG rushed them, which was because of the baron attempt. That's not how it should go typically at all.
Xayah excels when kiting imo. And RNG picked a very dive heavy comp. So the comp KZ picked is kind of a perfect answer. It's very difficult to siege and break the base, sure, but you won't lose 5v5s really. If you don't suppress the Illaoi with Malz or Skarner, he gets free time. Then you have one more supress for Rakan I guess? But then there's an Olaf running to your Kai'sa (1v3 damaging trying to kill him off while the 2 supressers cc'd themselves) and you get free piercing feathers and Vel'koz aoe going through your back and frontline. It's pretty nice imo, but it's a very specific answer to what RNG have drafted.
People talking about recent Trump being president and other recent events fucked up our timeline, but China and especially Uzi winning an international tournament is were it actually all went wrong. Pls delete.
On May 20 2018 23:20 loSleb wrote: People talking about recent Trump being president and other recent events fucked up our timeline, but China and especially Uzi winning an international tournament is were it actually all went wrong. Pls delete.
LOL, who would you have win this tournament then? None of the other teams were deserving of the win. TL and EVOS bombed out so so hard; FW and FNC got crubstomped; KZ straight up inted, tilting off the face of the Earth RNG won cuz they know exactly what they needed to do, at what time period in the game with what resources they have, meanwhile we got KZ marching into fights that they had no business initiating, so yeah... Game 2 was charity btw, They still had fuking lead and still man-handled KZ, they just made one mistake.
To me this timeline feels fitting, rather like a thing that was a long time coming. Also relevant that there are no Korean players on RNG.
I was wondering for some time when China's player numbers and money would finally translate into something tangible in competitive. They clearly have the player talent now, only thing holding them back is that they do not have Korea's discipline. Maybe this marks a fundamental shift or maybe it was just KZ having an off tournament.
Damn, thought KZ was gonna win, but this is starting to shape up into the year of Uzi. If he wins Worlds, he'd legit have finally overcome all his past failures.
So happy I didn't watch this live, the pauses reminded me of the dark days of LPL production.
G1: Uzi stomping G2: BDD reminding us why you have to ban Irelia G3: Xiaohu giving Uzi the game on a gold platter G4: KZ give Uzi the one champion they should never even dream of letting him touch
I feel like KZ were really wedged into a corner in G4 drafting. Is Karma really a first ban priority vs RNG over the likes of Kai'Sa? I can get banning Ez and Vlad, and Karma has a very good winrate this tournament while Kai'Sa does not, but come on, stats don't tell everything. You just have to watch the games Uzi played on her, he exploits her to the fullest. Especially because they then went on to ban 2 supports to try and stop Ming from getting a strong engager and stomp the bot lane. Ming has a big champion pool for a support, you can't ban him out, and there's no need for him to be on hard engage when Kai'Sa works well with Janna.
G4: PraY didn't respect the Malzahar. He was legit half a screen away AND the only champ in the vicinity (shown). He should've known that him getting suppressed would've completely fucked him and their team. I'm pretty sure he thought he'd be fast enough to ult the flash ult from Xiaohu, but he should've ulted WAY sooner and let Gorilla or someone else die for him instead.
On May 21 2018 02:25 DarkCore wrote: Damn, thought KZ was gonna win, but this is starting to shape up into the year of Uzi. If he wins Worlds, he'd legit have finally overcome all his past failures.
Pretty great results. But don’t overhype Uzi. RNG is still the second best LPL team, and unless Uzi has a reliable way to arrange for TheShy to get hand injuries right before next split’s playoffs as well, RNG probably doesn’t win next split or get a top seed into worlds.
Also, teams with decent coaching will know how to click on KaiSa in the ban phase. Though to be fair, that last bit seems to have evaded a lot of teams at MSI and at playoffs in both LCK and LPL.
On May 21 2018 08:44 cLutZ wrote: The final reenforces my previous suspicion that lck needs a new gen of adc talent. I'll admit I've always been a Pray hater tho.
idk. I think this was an especially bad tournament for Pray. He and Gorilla got first blooded in every second game.
Yes, but its still like, what I deep down have expected from him for several years. Like, anytime people have after the middle of S3 that "Pray is best ADC in Korea" I just groan and look around for another AD I like better, because I really hate him and don't think he's good. IDK why, maybe I just think his style is bad. I think Gorilla can be amazing, and also had a bad tournament, but I've always had irrational Pray hate, which means when even I think he is looking good in KR, it means I think the scene is becoming trash at the position.
Then they go out and poop their pants onstage, and my Pray hate doubles in size.
On May 21 2018 11:22 cLutZ wrote: Yes, but its still like, what I deep down have expected from him for several years. Like, anytime people have after the middle of S3 that "Pray is best ADC in Korea" I just groan and look around for another AD I like better, because I really hate him and don't think he's good. IDK why, maybe I just think his style is bad. I think Gorilla can be amazing, and also had a bad tournament, but I've always had irrational Pray hate, which means when even I think he is looking good in KR, it means I think the scene is becoming trash at the position.
Then they go out and poop their pants onstage, and my Pray hate doubles in size.
This talk has more to do with your meta-game preferences than performance issues. This tournament had the perfect set-up for AD carries of a particular mould, and there has never been a player who can quite replicate Uzi for the playstyle he prefers.
PraY has never been the best AD carry out of Korea in terms of sheer laning mechanics, or ability to maximize DPS in any given situation through mechanical ability, outside of his debut season. If it is raw mechanical skill you are after, Deft is probably the most talented player to come out of Korea in terms of AD carries. However, he is so incomplete as a player it really does not matter how talented he is mechanically speaking.
There has never been a player who has been immune to meta-game changes, even Faker struggles to adapt to certain meta-games from time to time. When utility based AD carries are in vogue, PraY will always be in the conversation for the greatest AD carry in the world.
This is more of a debate of meta-game preferences, such as players who prefer assassins to control mages, players who prefer tanks to split-pushers. Surely there is more to the game than being able outdamage everybody and "carrying" the game, otherwise Huni would be one of the greatest players only held back by the meta-game hindering his ability to "carry".
The current meta-game does not suit PraY, but I don't think there is a single AD carry on the planet who can claim to be clearly more meta-game resistant than PraY. Even during meta-games that "exposes" PraY's deficiencies as a player, he does not tend to disappear from the face of the earth to bide time for a meta-game that suits him specifically.
With that being said, other AD carries with less following than PraY may have performed better in his place for this particular tournament. However, that does not negate the years of excellence PraY has had. Unless PraY is judged solely for his ability to replicate the playing style of Uzi or Deft, he was a top performing player for his position for years on end. Trying to judge players by ability alone is such a fickle approach, since everybody has a different notion of what constitutes "skill" and "ability". All such discussion really entails is what somebody appreciates in a player, and at that point we may as well be discussing figure skating.
On May 21 2018 08:44 cLutZ wrote: The final reenforces my previous suspicion that lck needs a new gen of adc talent. I'll admit I've always been a Pray hater tho.
There is ADC talent like Teddy, it's just they don't have the best team around them.
My real issue with LCK is Jungle/Top talent. Khan has shit the bed twice now in international tournament same with Peanut. Yet they looked amazing in LCK. What gives?
I wonder if it’s at the point where Korea should import talent. If KT brought in Mieko to play support and shot call I could see them being a top team. (Assuming they could fix the language thing)
On May 21 2018 20:01 General_Winter wrote: I wonder if it’s at the point where Korea should import talent. If KT brought in Mieko to play support and shot call I could see them being a top team. (Assuming they could fix the language thing)
Wait, is it Mata's fault Deft's keyboard disconnects in late game and he walks into death brushes on a clock?
KT just has too many individuals that seem to fall apart when it actually matters. I doubt it's a simple fix of bringing in a shotcaller. It's BMT they seem to lack which is weird since they all pretty much winners. Wonder what happened over the years.
KZ has similar issues but slightly different. They have players who just can't seem to perform if they are out of their comfort zones and things aren't going their way. This season basically echos last where they dominate the split then hit playoffs and fumble. This time Korean teams seem to have gotten a bit worse so they were able to keep styling but the exact same thing happened at MSI as Worlds. I don't think this is a coincidence.
On May 21 2018 20:01 General_Winter wrote: I wonder if it’s at the point where Korea should import talent. If KT brought in Mieko to play support and shot call I could see them being a top team. (Assuming they could fix the language thing)
Mata is a damn good support lol. There are not many people out there who can spoon feed Deft the lane while having an impact elsewhere on the map. As mentioned above, Mata can't do much when Deft feels the need to throw himself at enemy teams.
There are a lot of good ADC in the LCK, it's just that there is a greater focus on play making and good macro, not to mention teamfight positioning and not dying. Means that individual play as ADC is often drowned out, it's not flashy. I cannot think of any KR ADC that are godlike at laning, I might be wrong about that though. I say it because I spend so much time watching CN, where even bench warmers for LSPL teams are mechanically gifted out the wazoo, and everyone wants to win the lane hard, not just break even. Means you get people like iBoy, who either dumps on his lane as Cait up 30cs@10 plus tower, or gets his ass blasted because he took a step too far. And amidst all that, Uzi is king, but even he doesn't survive lane every single game.
This time Korean teams seem to have gotten a bit worse so they were able to keep styling but the exact same thing happened at MSI as Worlds. I don't think this is a coincidence.
You're bringing up the recurring statement that KR looks weaker than ever before, and just like every year they will probably win Worlds again. I too think the days of SSW/SKT manhandling everyone are over, but they are still ahead of everyone else. Other big factor is that with 3 KR teams at Worlds, they tend to clean up the competition in playoffs, a non-KR team most likely has to beat 2 or all 3 to get the trophy, and that's just brutal.
I'm pretty interested in how this MSI effects Worlds. I would hope China's 3rd seed doesn't have to go through the "Totally Not Wildcards" portion of the tournament but I don't know how they could fudge the numbers to work out. I'm also curious if they're going to give the LMS a 3rd slot again this year even though there's no reasonable reason to, but FW doing so well they might be tempted to forget how bad LMS did at Worlds 2017.
On May 22 2018 14:53 chipmonklord17 wrote: I'm pretty interested in how this MSI effects Worlds. I would hope China's 3rd seed doesn't have to go through the "Totally Not Wildcards" portion of the tournament but I don't know how they could fudge the numbers to work out. I'm also curious if they're going to give the LMS a 3rd slot again this year even though there's no reasonable reason to, but FW doing so well they might be tempted to forget how bad LMS did at Worlds 2017.
Why shouldn't they get the 3rd slot? If you take their 3rd slot away, might as well take NA's one as well.
On May 22 2018 14:53 chipmonklord17 wrote: I'm pretty interested in how this MSI effects Worlds. I would hope China's 3rd seed doesn't have to go through the "Totally Not Wildcards" portion of the tournament but I don't know how they could fudge the numbers to work out. I'm also curious if they're going to give the LMS a 3rd slot again this year even though there's no reasonable reason to, but FW doing so well they might be tempted to forget how bad LMS did at Worlds 2017.
Why shouldn't they get the 3rd slot? If you take their 3rd slot away, might as well take NA's one as well.
Because LMS isn't a major region and NA is? Clearly whatever Riot algorithm they used said that NA > LMS and that's why LMS was at the end of the Play-In and not NALCS for this MSI. The fact that last worlds 1/3 of all of LMS' combined wins came from beating Rampage. There's no doubt in my mind that sending two LMS teams will every time get you the two best teams in the region, whereas just sending 2 NA teams wouldn't achieve the same. The success of the Flash Wolves doesn't equate to the strength of the LMS, and that's been proven year after year
I mean, NA sux lulz, but from my experience only real LMS teams worth considering for Worlds are FW and Ahq, and latter didn't do well this season. I don't watch the region, but FW went 13-1 in the season and stomped their finals based on the scoreboards. I think NA is slightly more competitive... Sending 2 LMS teams should be good enough imo.
One thing, on second thought, about the knockout stages, is that this tournament is the first where it seemed like teams were able to gangbang splitpushers without much consequence. You still have the standard stuff, but a lot of times in the KO stages you would have a 3v1 botlane, and the team with the 1 wouldn't even be in position to take baron, or even if they are, they don't because teleports from bot will come in.
I don't see why LMS doesn't deserve 3 spots when other regions that barely overperform them get 3 spots. I don't think they deserve 3 spots fully, but probably 2 and 1 in the Play-in again. Sounds good to me.
Btw the LMS rep has made it out of MSI group stage in every single year. Take that as you will. I think the LMS is definitely a top-heavy league. I also think EU is a top-heavy league. Aka Fnatic is way better than every other team and isn't a direct representative of the EU level of skill. I think LMS is gonna be fucked soon anyways. China money is coming for them now that Karsa succeeded and their talent pool is also low as fuck.
There is practically no difference in performance in international tournaments (only counting worlds and msi in terms of teams getting out of groups) between NA and LMS for the last 4 years. But NA probably should have 3 tickets no matter their performance only based on popularity and Riot's commercial interest.
My question would be who to give the third LMS ticket to. Are there overperforming small regions atm? I'm not too informed, but it's hard to think of one. Another option would be a region not yet participating. The last option would be to give it to another 'big' region. The only region with 3 tickets that's consistently overperforming compared to other 3 ticket regions is Korea, but I don't think many people are waiting for a fourth Korean squad.
So at this moment, assuming 2017 tournament setup for 2018, I think giving LMS a third seed is reasonable.
I don't think they deserve 3 spots fully, but probably 2 and 1 in the Play-in again.
Sounds good to me as well, that way if their third seed is good enough to dominate the Wildcards, they can still get in. No need to bicker about giving it to a specific region either, whatever team makes it out of play ins will probably be slaughtered anyway in their group. Maybe they'll take a few wins from the West and we get shit on again, but I'd honestly be super shocked if a 3rd place LMS/Wildcard team made it out of their group.
On May 23 2018 17:13 Yorbon wrote: There is practically no difference in performance in international tournaments (only counting worlds and msi in terms of teams getting out of groups) between NA and LMS for the last 4 years. But NA probably should have 3 tickets no matter their performance only based on popularity and Riot's commercial interest.
My question would be who to give the third LMS ticket to. Are there overperforming small regions atm? I'm not too informed, but it's hard to think of one. Another option would be a region not yet participating. The last option would be to give it to another 'big' region. The only region with 3 tickets that's consistently overperforming compared to other 3 ticket regions is Korea, but I don't think many people are waiting for a fourth Korean squad.
So at this moment, assuming 2017 tournament setup for 2018, I think giving LMS a third seed is reasonable.
Edit: I counted a play-in spot as a ticket.
I don't mind 4 korean teams, although I wonder if their run of dominance will continue this year. But I think Vietnam should be ugpraded in status (and NA downgraded)
EPT
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