Oof, that schedule. The only game that doesn't already look decided is TSM vs TL. I'd say TiP vs Dig too, but I think Dig is falling apart. Then anything can happen in CLG vs TDK, but my money is on Seraph shitting on Doublelift.
Kinda weird Ez was last picked. I guess people figured out how to deal with him?
Either way, that TL's comp looks really strong. So much control to elongate team fights for Azir. I don't know how TDK is supposed to hard engage onto that comp without someone getting caught out. I don't see TDK winning team fights or contesting river objectives effectively.
On July 12 2015 02:26 God Killer v2 wrote: I'm fine with even a 1-1 for Cloud 9, I just want to see Hai shit on kids and Cloud to not be relegated ;-;
Funny, that's the exact opposite of what I'd like to see.
c9 relegated and sneaky to tsm and they get meteos who somehow gets his form back the dream
Dam just imagine TSM with 4-5 top class players instead of the 1-2 they have now.
On July 12 2015 04:17 Sonnington wrote: Kinda weird Ez was last picked. I guess people figured out how to deal with him?
Either way, that TL's comp looks really strong. So much control to elongate team fights for Azir. I don't know how TDK is supposed to hard engage onto that comp without someone getting caught out. I don't see TDK winning team fights or contesting river objectives effectively.
I worry TL doesn't have that good engage tools where as TDK are perfectly fine fighting a long fight with Vayne/Ez.
TL has Sivir/Azir and they're vs a shaky team prone to doing stupid bullshit. That team has decided to pick AP Ez and Vayne on the same team vs a bunch of zoning champs with a fuckton of engage control.
I don't think TL could actually win that pick/ban harder. Ban Ali over Vlad maybe. Otherwise, this is waaaay in TL's favor.
On July 12 2015 04:17 Sonnington wrote: Kinda weird Ez was last picked. I guess people figured out how to deal with him?
Either way, that TL's comp looks really strong. So much control to elongate team fights for Azir. I don't know how TDK is supposed to hard engage onto that comp without someone getting caught out. I don't see TDK winning team fights or contesting river objectives effectively.
I worry TL doesn't have that good engage tools where as TDK are perfectly fine fighting a long fight with Vayne/Ez.
Gragas and Gnar have good engage, strong flanking. But they don't need to engage really. All they need to do is take dragons and barons.
Bjergsen, Lustboy, and Santorin can count as NA resident players now, actually. The rules got changed after MSI such that exempt non-residents declare their home region for this split (then again the following split), as the 'exempt non-resident' category is abolished. I just don't think that region declarations are publicized?
On July 12 2015 02:26 God Killer v2 wrote: I'm fine with even a 1-1 for Cloud 9, I just want to see Hai shit on kids and Cloud to not be relegated ;-;
Funny, that's the exact opposite of what I'd like to see.
c9 relegated and sneaky to tsm and they get meteos who somehow gets his form back the dream
Dam just imagine TSM with 4-5 top class players instead of the 1-2 they have now.
On July 12 2015 04:17 Sonnington wrote: Kinda weird Ez was last picked. I guess people figured out how to deal with him?
Either way, that TL's comp looks really strong. So much control to elongate team fights for Azir. I don't know how TDK is supposed to hard engage onto that comp without someone getting caught out. I don't see TDK winning team fights or contesting river objectives effectively.
I worry TL doesn't have that good engage tools where as TDK are perfectly fine fighting a long fight with Vayne/Ez.
Gragas and Gnar have good engage, strong flanking. But they don't need to engage really. All they need to do is take dragons and barons.
Gnar is pretty poor primary engage. He's far better as a secondary or mid fight control type of champ. I guess sivir speed up helps a bit but ye it's not like a maokai where you can just say "this is a fight now". Gragas is similar in that he's better as a disengage or secondary engagement tool. Relying purely on flanking to engage is a bit risky
On July 12 2015 04:25 Caiada wrote: A team that picked Vayne and AP Ez and has Seraph is down 1k in lane gold. Yup.
so they have 3 lanes that just arent good in lane and just want to farm and they are down in gold?Standart?
pretty weird they went for reksai with this comp though
It's expected, I just have no idea why you'd pick both in the same comp, then abandon the already-frequently-shitty Seraph. They're going to put themselves down so much the (theoretical) scaling won't even be possible.
Kez/Smoothie need to play around Seraph losing lane vs Gnar. Vayne is decent into Sivir; Ninja just needs to play back (please Ninja, play back and farm for once.....) If your Mao is 50cs down and has Catalyst/Cloth armor, your Vayne is dead and Ez is irrelevant.
But that all comes back to this draft being countered in basically every way. 5k down at 20 with no big fights means *everything* else went wrong.
I'm pretty sure Azir attacked while stunned by Condemn. The visual bug with idle soldiers playing their attack animation has been fixed, right? So if I saw them attack Vayne durign the stun it wasn't that?
That's still 10k gold lead and an open inhib so I don't see what you're worrying about. That's still Gragas and Janna to protect an Azir, and Sivir and Gnar to force a fight.
That Azir damage is so dumb. Vayne Tumbles the Q but still get hit by the tip and slowed, and gets to auto twice, dropping her to about 20% HP before she uses Heal.
On July 12 2015 04:52 Alaric wrote: That Azir damage is so dumb. Vayne Tumbles the Q but still get hit by the tip and slowed, and gets to auto twice, dropping her to about 20% HP before she uses Heal.
blows my mind how often he leaves the ban phase especially vs tl when their mid has shown he can actually play it
They were a bit apprehensive after getting 4 for 2'ed at the bottom inhib of TDK's base, I can understand why they're a bit sheepish after that, seeing as you can't see the gold lead unless you actually have someone do the math in-game on item costs.
I think Xpecial gets MVP this game, he and Quas did a lot of kiting for Piglet and Fenix to be safe and dish out the damage after TDK tried to engage.
Nintendude should also be in that running. We could have a whole awful team to laugh at.
On July 12 2015 05:00 Kinie wrote: They were a bit apprehensive after getting 4 for 2'ed at the bottom inhib of TDK's base, I can understand why they're a bit sheepish after that, seeing as you can't see the gold lead unless you actually have someone do the math in-game on item costs.
I think Xpecial gets MVP this game, he and Quas did a lot of kiting for Piglet and Fenix to be safe and dish out the damage after TDK tried to engage.
They were like 6 turrets up, every lane had a notable lead. It's not rocket science. 3 members were whole items up most of the game.
On July 12 2015 05:00 Kinie wrote: They were a bit apprehensive after getting 4 for 2'ed at the bottom inhib of TDK's base, I can understand why they're a bit sheepish after that, seeing as you can't see the gold lead unless you actually have someone do the math in-game on item costs.
I think Xpecial gets MVP this game, he and Quas did a lot of kiting for Piglet and Fenix to be safe and dish out the damage after TDK tried to engage.
That's how TL rolls. I'm sure those semirecent losses where they went super aggressive and lost because of it are on their mind too. I don't think TL even expected to get that kind of gold lead early. I think the gameplan was just river control and coast it out to a win.
How often is the team actually picked in the Top -> Jungle -> Mid -> ADC -> Support order? I don't think I've ever seen a daft that didn't involve some switching
Honestly I'm not sure how CLG forces a hard engage onto NME. Their pick/ban is weird. Their comp needs to take towers fast or just hope NME makes mistakes.
On July 12 2015 05:25 MoonBear wrote: Honestly I'm not sure how CLG forces a hard engage onto NME. Their pick/ban is weird. Their comp needs to take towers fast or just hope NME makes mistakes.
Well, the core of Gragas/Janna/Orianna is similar to TL's control comp. So they should have good objective control. Obviously it won't be as good without a Sivir, but they have a fast pusher ADC. I think they want to have Zion split push heavily and try to win the game early-mid. I think if it goes late or they don't get a good enough lead early they're fucked.
On July 12 2015 05:25 MoonBear wrote: Honestly I'm not sure how CLG forces a hard engage onto NME. Their pick/ban is weird. Their comp needs to take towers fast or just hope NME makes mistakes.
Well, the core of Gragas/Janna/Orianna is similar to TL's control comp. So they should have good objective control. Obviously it won't be as good without a Sivir, but they have a fast pusher ADC. I think they want to have Zion split push heavily and try to win the game early-mid. I think if it goes late or they don't get a good enough lead early they're fucked.
CLG can stack MR, they are fine. Zion will just snipe Ezreal and they can just run NME down with Janna.
On July 12 2015 05:25 MoonBear wrote: Honestly I'm not sure how CLG forces a hard engage onto NME. Their pick/ban is weird. Their comp needs to take towers fast or just hope NME makes mistakes.
Well, the core of Gragas/Janna/Orianna is similar to TL's control comp. So they should have good objective control. Obviously it won't be as good without a Sivir, but they have a fast pusher ADC. I think they want to have Zion split push heavily and try to win the game early-mid. I think if it goes late or they don't get a good enough lead early they're fucked.
CLG can stack MR, they are fine. Zion will just snipe Ezreal and they can just run NME down with Janna.
Yeah, I forgot that. I was just looking at what CLG does well.
Vayne, the last refuge of a man that's given up on his team >.>
I really hate this C9 draft. Sneaky's dead basically every fight and Braum feels like Lemon's gone with something easy and defensive instead of good. Rumble first-pick is a joke when Sivir's up and Hauntzer can just play a meatwall.
On July 12 2015 06:07 Numy wrote: Give up Sivir for Reksai, what??????. Is reksai the only jungler Hai can use?
Ban Kalista, pick Rek'Sai. At this point, I'm pretty sure that reddit can draft better than almost all competitive western teams.
I think it's just one of those where these pro teams are just all denying reality. Adding coaches to drafting phase doesn't seem to have helped. Rate if only the one person picked all the champs it may actually help more.
On July 12 2015 06:22 MoonBear wrote: Shen Global is pretty good eh?
It's pretty good when you give them an ADC can doesn't even require a support to lane AND just happens to be the best(Along with Kalista) ADC in the game instead of say picking it when they didn't first pick it. I can't handle this stupidity.
On July 12 2015 06:22 MoonBear wrote: Shen Global is pretty good eh?
It's pretty good when you give them an ADC can doesn't even require a support to lane AND just happens to be the best(Along with Kalista) ADC in the game instead of say picking it when they didn't first pick it. I can't handle this stupidity.
Like everyone who has played against the GV Shen Support has super disrespected it but then again GV set up the kill really well mid lane this game
how can gravity end up with maokai and sivir (+bonus shen, nidalee) every game. "just a sivir comp" isn't even a meme at this point when Altec is living the sivir dream.
On July 12 2015 06:48 AsnSensation wrote: Move was on EDG academy, but only ended up on GRV because Keane "found" him during the break and they duo queued like 200games right?
Certainly seems like the best jungler in NA by far right now, great vision control and map movement and insane mechanics.
yeah I think GV were looking for a jungler while Keane was in Korea and he scouted Move in soloq
On July 12 2015 06:52 Numy wrote: I wonder who will steal rookie of the split from Move this time. Santorin stole it from Rush so someone needs to steal it from Move.
On July 12 2015 06:52 Numy wrote: I wonder who will steal rookie of the split from Move this time. Santorin stole it from Rush so someone needs to steal it from Move.
I don't really think there's any rookies who are doing well asides from Move, so he probably has his in the bag.
I mean, the list of "rookies" (1st time playing in NA) in this split I can think of is: Move, Incarnation, Trashy, Otter, Bodydrop, Smoothie, Ninja, Emperor, etc.
Not really a list of great contenders for rookie of the split asides from Move.
To be fair, Santorin and Rush were 50/50, Rush was impressive in wins but hilariously retarded in first like 3-4 weeks and Santorin did his job consistently plus bodied Spirit in IEM finals. Only real thing is that Rush was 100% rookie, but meh.
And Move doesn't even have opposition. NME flopped, Incarnati0n flopped and only miracle will save MSI TDK from 10th place now.
On July 12 2015 06:57 Kenpark wrote: At least Inca had a solid game. The pressure Move puts on is insane though. He hardcarried last weeks games on Nida too. Must ban.
Calling it now that Move is playing for TSM next season.
idk man TSM looks happy with Santorin being jungler.
On July 12 2015 07:05 TitusVI wrote: So where is keith?
Judging by tsm legends, tsm staff felt like he underperformed and maybe still needs some time before he can play on stage and perhaps the gravity game made them realize that every win counts and if they field keith, they could potentially drop out of top2 seeds for playoffs.
On July 12 2015 07:05 TitusVI wrote: So where is keith?
Judging by tsm legends, tsm staff felt like he underperformed and maybe still needs some time before he can play on stage and perhaps the gravity game made them realize that every win counts and if they field keith, they could potentially drop out of top2 seeds for playoffs.
This is a bad day for top laners not named Zion/Quas.
Was that a joke? Just fucking running around without fucking contesting or at least just dropping yourself down midlane and trying to do *something*? Any fucking thing?
On July 12 2015 07:50 Caiada wrote: This is a bad day for top laners not named Zion/Quas.
Was that a joke? Just fucking running around without fucking contesting or at least just dropping yourself down midlane and trying to do *something*? Any fucking thing?
Dyrus shouldn't be on Naut. Santorin's Vi is a joke. Lustboy was a nonfactor. That was probably Wildturtle's worst game maybe ever. I feel like Dyrus probably did more damage.
On July 12 2015 07:57 Ysellian wrote: TSM looked clueless today.
today?
TSM has been clueless since they got figured out by MSI teams.
Well today more so. At least TSM's rotations are normally good which works well with their passive play, but today they just got dragged around the map like a bunch of headless chickens with everyone playing farm simulator.
On July 12 2015 07:58 Caiada wrote: Dyrus shouldn't be on Naut. Santorin's Vi is a joke. Lustboy was a nonfactor. That was probably Wildturtle's worst game maybe ever. I feel like Dyrus probably did more damage.
they went for like a gv style comp but they picked vi instead of nid and ez instead of another engage champ
OH! These team comps are very good! Double AD comp with strong objective control vs a heavy split push focused comp, but it's TiP doing the split pushing. This should be a good game!
Rush is 100% kill participation, builds sightstone/aegis. A man after my heart.
And then he gets a triple kill for laughs.
XWX's looking better than average. Also a good game to show why Sivir should be on red's ban list like 99% of the time. But, a solid game from all of TiP, really.
On July 12 2015 08:33 Caiada wrote: Also a good game to show why Sivir should be on red's ban list like 99% of the time. But, a solid game from all of TiP, really.
And against TiP even more. If there was one team I really wanted to ban her against it would be TiP.
I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
we have very different defitions of carry .Dyrus/santorin/lustboy were much bigger factors in t8's win than nien.Bjerd died last fight without shen ult being used,dyrus getting caught so many times and not even gonna start on santorin this game was so much more important.Nien literally did nothing.Hell he had less damage dealt than turtle....
I really hope tsm don't think they lost because of draft this time because it simply isn't true.If you play like this your draft is irrelevant.
After rewatching the last fight it was even worse than I thought.Lustboy literally didn't ult his carry getting focused for 10+seconds and let him die and santorin just ran away instead of going in and giving his team a few seconds while he dies holy shit.
Well that's what TSM always do when they behind. For how badly Fnatic played this week at least they actively tried to do something. I see Dig gave TiP Sivir as well. Seriously how does this happen? The best champ in the game for TiP and they keep getting it.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
we have very different defitions of carry .Dyrus/santorin/lustboy were much bigger factors in t8's win than nien.Bjerd died last fight without shen ult being used,dyrus getting caught so many times and not even gonna start on santorin this game was so much more important.Nien literally did nothing.Hell he had less damage dealt than turtle....
I really hope tsm don't think they lost because of draft this time because it simply isn't true.If you play like this your draft is irrelevant.
After rewatching the last fight it was even worse than I thought.Lustboy literally didn't ult his carry getting focused for 10+seconds and let him die and santorin just ran away instead of going in and giving his team a few seconds while he dies holy shit.
Well, lets look at the outcome statistically. Nien is 4 for 5 on Kalista this split with something like a 10 KDA on her. Everytime he plays her he has the highest kill participation on the team. And while, yes, Turtle dealt 3k more damage than Nien ending the game with a 1/3/4. Nien also took 6k more damage and ended the game with a 7/1/6. I guess Nien is just good at knowing the limits of his champion and does efficient damage rather than some ADCs that do superfluous damage.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
With C9 getting relegated, I think TSM is practically guaranteed to go on circuit points.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
we have very different defitions of carry .Dyrus/santorin/lustboy were much bigger factors in t8's win than nien.Bjerd died last fight without shen ult being used,dyrus getting caught so many times and not even gonna start on santorin this game was so much more important.Nien literally did nothing.Hell he had less damage dealt than turtle....
I really hope tsm don't think they lost because of draft this time because it simply isn't true.If you play like this your draft is irrelevant.
After rewatching the last fight it was even worse than I thought.Lustboy literally didn't ult his carry getting focused for 10+seconds and let him die and santorin just ran away instead of going in and giving his team a few seconds while he dies holy shit.
Well, lets look at the outcome statistically. Nien is 4 for 5 on Kalista this split with something like a 10 KDA on her. Everytime he plays her he has the highest kill participation on the team. And while, yes, Turtle dealt 3k more damage than Nien ending the game with a 1/3/4. Nien also took 6k more damage and ended the game with a 7/1/6. I guess Nien is just good at knowing the limits of his champion and does efficient damage rather than some ADCs that do superfluous damage.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
we have very different defitions of carry .Dyrus/santorin/lustboy were much bigger factors in t8's win than nien.Bjerd died last fight without shen ult being used,dyrus getting caught so many times and not even gonna start on santorin this game was so much more important.Nien literally did nothing.Hell he had less damage dealt than turtle....
I really hope tsm don't think they lost because of draft this time because it simply isn't true.If you play like this your draft is irrelevant.
After rewatching the last fight it was even worse than I thought.Lustboy literally didn't ult his carry getting focused for 10+seconds and let him die and santorin just ran away instead of going in and giving his team a few seconds while he dies holy shit.
Well, lets look at the outcome statistically. Nien is 4 for 5 on Kalista this split with something like a 10 KDA on her. Everytime he plays her he has the highest kill participation on the team. And while, yes, Turtle dealt 3k more damage than Nien ending the game with a 1/3/4. Nien also took 6k more damage and ended the game with a 7/1/6. I guess Nien is just good at knowing the limits of his champion and does efficient damage rather than some ADCs that do superfluous damage.
Problem is you are looking only at results and not in the game itself.Having good stats doesn't mean you played well.I mean yeah he is awful on other champs so maybe kalista is a good ban but he was behind 40 cs after lane phase so if tsm didn't throw and play so bad he would've been useless.Kalista is also a champion that is supposed to win lane she isn't a scaling champion.
Like seriously what did nien do?Literally his only good play was killing an overextending turtle.He didn't do absolutely anything else the entire game that could be called solid play.He was just there and happened to be on the winning team.
Speaking of you bringing up nien's stats at the end Santorin is the kda leader in the na lcs with 13 and is followed by piglet at 9.3.Clearly best jungler na.
Why are you guys arguing about CS differentials and winning lane? They didn't even 2v2, Nien being down 20 CS is more on T8's decision to group and push towers/early dragons versus TSM's decision to let WildTurtle split a lane, not Nien being bad/Turtle being good. Farm allocation is a team decision, T8 opted to forgo Nien's farm for tower/dragon damage, and to designate Cali as the splitter.
On July 12 2015 12:15 739 wrote: I've just woke up to rewatch highlights of few games and I have to say that : Rush is a good jungler, damn I like watching him when he doesn't fuck things up <3 LOL at TSM getting beat by T8, muahuaha.
I think when Zion said today that he didn't think TSM was going to worlds. It wasn't just a BM towards TSM. I just think he believes there's serious issues behind the scene.
You can easily argue they fell apart at MSI and never full returned and that certain players lick balls(Santorin, I'm looking at you.) But look at the pick/ban today. Every game Nien gets Kalista they win. Conversely I think they've only won, one game this split without Kalista. And you're telling me Loco and the other two full time analysts couldn't see this coming? So TSM didn't ban Kalista, T8 had first pick and picked Kalista, ggwp.
we have very different defitions of carry .Dyrus/santorin/lustboy were much bigger factors in t8's win than nien.Bjerd died last fight without shen ult being used,dyrus getting caught so many times and not even gonna start on santorin this game was so much more important.Nien literally did nothing.Hell he had less damage dealt than turtle....
I really hope tsm don't think they lost because of draft this time because it simply isn't true.If you play like this your draft is irrelevant.
After rewatching the last fight it was even worse than I thought.Lustboy literally didn't ult his carry getting focused for 10+seconds and let him die and santorin just ran away instead of going in and giving his team a few seconds while he dies holy shit.
Well, lets look at the outcome statistically. Nien is 4 for 5 on Kalista this split with something like a 10 KDA on her. Everytime he plays her he has the highest kill participation on the team. And while, yes, Turtle dealt 3k more damage than Nien ending the game with a 1/3/4. Nien also took 6k more damage and ended the game with a 7/1/6. I guess Nien is just good at knowing the limits of his champion and does efficient damage rather than some ADCs that do superfluous damage.
Problem is you are looking only at results and not in the game itself.Having good stats doesn't mean you played well.I mean yeah he is awful on other champs so maybe kalista is a good ban but he was behind 40 cs after lane phase so if tsm didn't throw and play so bad he would've been useless.Kalista is also a champion that is supposed to win lane she isn't a scaling champion.
Like seriously what did nien do?Literally his only good play was killing an overextending turtle.He didn't do absolutely anything else the entire game that could be called solid play.He was just there and happened to be on the winning team.
Speaking of you bringing up nien's stats at the end Santorin is the kda leader in the na lcs with 13 and is followed by piglet at 9.3.Clearly best jungler na.
That's true, I didn't watch yesterday's game past Nien getting first blood/Cali getting dove. I find it tough to watch T8, they have awful strategy.
I did skim through the game though. Apparently they did some weird lane swapping early game. While Nien was down CS, Calitrols was up cs despite being killed. So I'm assuming they must've fed Cali CS over Nien. Despite all of that, Both Nien and Cali stayed relatively even in gold with their counterparts. I'd have to go back and rewatch the laning phase to see what was going on, because when I stopped watching at about 10 minutes in, Nien was even in farm with first blood and was sent top lane to farm alone while Cali got dove and killed bot lane.
In any event, you ask what Nien did to win the game? I guess he did damage to the enemy at the times he knew he had the proper chance to kill them. Moreso than anyone else on his team.
TL should slay TSM tonight, at least I hope so. GV should stomp NME, Dig will struggle into win against C9, TiP should beat T8 and CLG vs TDK might be a funny game.
Edit : Did I understand good and Steve / Reginald gonna be at analyst desk? ^^
On July 13 2015 03:56 739 wrote: TL should slay TSM tonight, at least I hope so. GV should stomp NME, Dig will struggle into win against C9, TiP should beat T8 and CLG vs TDK might be a funny game.
Edit : Did I understand good and Steve / Reginald gonna be at analyst desk? ^^
that's some impressive patience from altec right there, they had that early teamfight but he still hasn't spend any points in E at lvl 5 only 1 points each in Q+W
nvm looks like he decided to spend the points in Q and W now.
On July 13 2015 04:30 Ansibled wrote: I wonder how much NME is going to be worth after this split.
.7 million, they still make LCS income but yeah like ptbl said I can't see NME staying in LCS, especially with at least semi-competent challenger teams like Coast under Saint, Renegades under Montecristo and Cloud 9 Tempest.
On July 13 2015 04:30 Ansibled wrote: I wonder how much NME is going to be worth after this split.
.7 million, they still make LCS income but yeah like ptbl said I can't see NME staying in LCS, especially with at least semi-competent challenger teams like Coast under Saint, Renegades under Montecristo and Cloud 9 Tempest.
dont forget c9 probably has to play these teams too.
On July 13 2015 04:30 Ansibled wrote: I wonder how much NME is going to be worth after this split.
.7 million, they still make LCS income but yeah like ptbl said I can't see NME staying in LCS, especially with at least semi-competent challenger teams like Coast under Saint, Renegades under Montecristo and Cloud 9 Tempest.
dont forget c9 probably has to play these teams too.
at least we have some "quality"challenger teams that can offer something. we had splits with teams that offered nothing. Like the team nukeduck was in. haha
On July 13 2015 04:45 God Killer v2 wrote: nukeduck was in lomodogs man they were #1 EU
nah after that
To be fair, nukeduck was like only one who performed fine in their second collapse against Millenium. First time though, everything went wrong, multiplied on hyrqbot's eyes problems plus KMT finished 3rd in split, so it was, I guess, just bad choice of team to play against, lol.
Why on earth would Dig not back away immediately after Lemon just chunks a quarter of the whole goddamn team's health? Why am I even asking this when they were too dumb not to bunch up?
Incarnation timed coming into that fight just about perfectly.
On July 13 2015 05:44 Neverhood wrote: Holy shit lol C9 seriously aiming for 7th place....what has this world come to
It's not like they can get higher, unless they win every game and Dig/CLG lose every.
Well Dig certainly are looking that way.
Dig remaining matches Gravity, TSM, CLG, NME
So NME would have to go clutch but the rest is doable. Also whoever loses T8/TiP would have to also lose all of their remaining matches
TIP will finish higher than C9 even if they lose every game due to 2-0 tiebreaker.
So basically NME has to go clutch as fuck against dig AND TiP has to beat T8 this week AND T8 has to lose every game going forward for c9 to even have a shot at playoffs
C9 actually has an okay last two weeks. They play vs. NME, TDK, CLG, and TSM. That's not a very difficult line up to face. NME has a harder match up. TDK has an easier one but is already 2 games behind C9, so unless they greatly improve their record, C9 is liable to finish above both NME and TDK.
T8 is harder. T8 is 5-8, and even though they have TDK, Gravity, TL, and CLG in the last two weeks, which is a harder line up than C9's, just winning 1-2 games is liable to be enough for T8 to place above C9.
T8 needs to lose vs. TiP today for C9 to have a practical shot of getting to 7th.
That's actually new to me, lol. Are we legit looking at Dig in gauntlet.
i dont know what the point standings are, but do they have enough circuit points if they make the no playoff spot
For sure. There are almost no scenarios where C9 can get overtaken completely outside of Dig winning split and Gravity/CLG/TIP making top-4 and stuff like that. Basically, you need those 4 to be higher than TSM/TL because TSM/TL will finish higher than C9 in every scenario.
That's actually new to me, lol. Are we legit looking at Dig in gauntlet.
i dont know what the point standings are, but do they have enough circuit points if they make the no playoff spot
They have 70 from getting 2nd in Spring Split.
And since regionals are based on 4th/3rd/2nd highest point totals overall with Summer Split points going: "AQ to 1st place, 90 points to 2nd place, 70 to 3rd, 40 to 4th, and 20 to 5th/6th, I can see a possibility that C9 doesn't make it even if they get 7th.
I'm too lazy to do the actual calculations for such a scenario, but it's also possible they can get into regionals just on the basis of their 2nd place finish.
Really confused by the Nida ban. When has Santorin shown he's good on it? I remember him playing it but it felt rather mediocre. Is it just because Dom only plays Reksai/Grag?
On July 13 2015 06:10 Numy wrote: Really confused by the Nida ban. When has Santorin shown he's good on it? I remember him playing it but it felt rather mediocre. Is it just because Dom only plays Reksai/Grag?
That's actually new to me, lol. Are we legit looking at Dig in gauntlet.
i dont know what the point standings are, but do they have enough circuit points if they make the no playoff spot
Possible.
So the pool of teams eligible for worlds contention in an LCS region is practically 6 or 7. If you get knocked out after Spring, your points are removed. If you survive into/promote into Summer, then head to relegation matches via spots 8-10, your points are removed. Spots 1-6 get points.
Winner of Summer playoffs automatically gets the region's first seed. After first seed's removed from the list, the team with the most points remaining gets the second seed. Then after second seed's removed from the list, the next four teams in succession get placed into the gauntlet. If Summer's 7th placed team had no points, then the entire pool of teams with varying chances to head to worlds is basically the summer playoffs set. If 7th has points, then we start looking at who to leave out of the gauntlet.
But, C9 does have points! 70 from placing 2nd in Spring. TSM has 90 from winning Spring. Team Liquid has 50 from placing 3rd. Impulse has 30 from placing 4th. Gravity and CLG have 10 from placing outside of the top 4. Dignitas has 0 from not even making it to playoffs.
Getting 2nd in Summer nets 90 points, 3rd gets 70, 4th gets 40, and bombing out in the 1st round gets you 20 points. So, assuming that C9 lands in 7th place, they need one team from above to total less than 70 points (for tiebreaking purposes, Summer points are more valuable). TSM will have more points regardless. Team Liquid will at worst tie with C9, then win the tiebreaker for having more Summer points. Impulse ties (and thus beats C9) from getting 4th place, so they need to lose in the 1st round. Gravity and CLG both need to get at least 3rd place to have more points than C9. 4th or getting knocked out in the 1st round means having fewer points. Dignitas... same as Gravity/CLG here; need to place at least 3rd to edge out C9.
So, the basic scenario for a 7th place C9 to not make the gauntlet effectively requires Gravity, Dig, and CLG to be #1-3 in whatever order, Impulse in 4th place, and TSM/Liquid crashing in the first round. In other words, it relies greatly on CLG somehow not mentally disintegrating for at least 2 Bo5's in a row. Like hell that's happening.
On July 13 2015 06:31 Ansibled wrote: Dyrus no Mercs???
Omfg I didn't even notice he went tabi. Hahahahahhaha.
On another note this is why I hate teams going ultra passive early game. It makes any single mistake mean so much more than if they were attempting to be proactive. Tiny skirmishes can lead to small gains or loses but doing nothing then having a big skirmish often just snowballs the game.
it would make sense if dyrus was rushing homeguards but he clearly isnt. probably fell into the trap of "lol i got dat free 10% cc reduction, tabis mang"
Seriously all TSM had to do was get Aegis on Santorin and MR on everyone else. Trust dyrus to do something dumb for no apparent reason. I don't get the logic of going Shen support when you have a team that doesn't want to or need to make any kind of proactive play on the map. Aren't there better supports to peel?
Treads stats aren't the most efficient. If the only thing treads will reduce is Annie stun, I could justify armor boots. But so early without homeguard, yeah, I dunno. And now he's got a glacial shroud, so what in the everlovin fuck.
On July 13 2015 06:43 Sonnington wrote: Wow, Santorin didn't even smite.
He probably thought he didn't need to.
The funniest part about it is, he had a ward over the wall looking at Piglet. And he was thinking about body blocking the rocket, but he moved out of the way and let Piglet do it.
And BTW, he's the jungler. His job is to smite :D.
On July 13 2015 06:52 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Like, TSM legit did everything in their power in this game to negate awful TL's drafting.
EVEN BANNED OLAF OVER AZIR.
They just forgot to pay Xpecial.
At this point in time the whole coaching staff and everyone but Bjerg needs to be removed. Surely the number 1 thing they talk about before the game starts is "build MR they have almost all AP team comp, we get to late game as tanky fuckers and win"
On July 13 2015 06:52 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Like, TSM legit did everything in their power in this game to negate awful TL's drafting.
EVEN BANNED OLAF OVER AZIR.
They just forgot to pay Xpecial.
At this point in time the whole coaching staff and everyone but Bjerg needs to be removed. Surely the number 1 thing they talk about before the game starts is "build MR they have almost all AP team comp, we get to late game as tanky fuckers and win"
the problem is, pros will say they don't need anyone to tell them that cuz it's so obvious, then you look at how games like this turn out with pros not buying mr, and you realize the cost of hubris
On July 13 2015 06:52 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Like, TSM legit did everything in their power in this game to negate awful TL's drafting.
EVEN BANNED OLAF OVER AZIR.
They just forgot to pay Xpecial.
At this point in time the whole coaching staff and everyone but Bjerg needs to be removed. Surely the number 1 thing they talk about before the game starts is "build MR they have almost all AP team comp, we get to late game as tanky fuckers and win"
Imagine teams going to shoot penalty kick from 20 metres instead of 11. That's like same.
On July 13 2015 07:02 Sent. wrote: Dyrus probably had ~1k gold when he backed and he had a choice to buy wardens mail or giants belt or some shit items like ruby crystals.
It's kind of funny how upset Fnatic were after being Origen compared to how happy TL are after being TSM. I guess being unbeaten means you can look at shit performances more objectively.
On July 13 2015 07:03 Numy wrote: It's kind of funny how upset Fnatic were after being Origen compared to how happy TL are after being TSM. I guess being unbeaten means you can look at shit performances more objectively.
yeah, fnatic are looking to be competitive against SKT and EDG. They must have felt there is still a long road ahead of them. TL and TSM Are just looking to qualify
Must say though this was an awesome game to watch as a spectator.
the casters mentioned that support Shen was becoming stronger than support Annie towards lategame, what's up with that? Doesn't annie have like, waay better scaling with gold?
On July 13 2015 07:05 Flakes wrote: the casters mentioned that support Shen was becoming stronger than support Annie towards lategame, what's up with that? Doesn't annie have like, waay better scaling with gold?
Not when everyone just builds hard-engage on her. Shen can just become a meatwall.
On July 13 2015 07:05 Flakes wrote: the casters mentioned that support Shen was becoming stronger than support Annie towards lategame, what's up with that? Doesn't annie have like, waay better scaling with gold?
Globals are really good. You can never really take an even fight because it can quickly turn against you. Shen can also tank somewhat. Annie however is very one-dimensional and also very reliant on Flash. You go in, throw down all your spells and that's it. If you get caught or fail your initiation you explode and die.
On July 13 2015 07:05 Flakes wrote: the casters mentioned that support Shen was becoming stronger than support Annie towards lategame, what's up with that? Doesn't annie have like, waay better scaling with gold?
support annie's burst counts for less later, while support shen turns into another meatwall and annie just dies if hard engaged
Shen basically did nothing this game. I don't think they used that pick properly.
And lol at Reggie for saying they're trying new things for the future. They have Dyrus on Mao, Santorin on Gragas, and Turtle on Jinx. Give me a fucking break they're trying new things. Also going AP Ez 3 games in a row. It's obviously going to get nerfed. Running him is obviously a cheesy way to try to get quick wins.
On July 13 2015 07:05 Flakes wrote: the casters mentioned that support Shen was becoming stronger than support Annie towards lategame, what's up with that? Doesn't annie have like, waay better scaling with gold?
Globals are really good. You can never really take an even fight because it can quickly turn against you. Shen can also tank somewhat. Annie however is very one-dimensional and also very reliant on Flash. You go in, throw down all your spells and that's it. If you get caught or fail your initiation you explode and die.
That Xpecial miss initiate on bot towards the end shows this I think.
On July 13 2015 07:14 Mensol wrote: I sincerely hope that Gravity and Liquid dont fuck up in the last two weeks and hold first and second place till the end.
TL plays CLG and NME and GV plays Dig and T8, so easy I guess.
On July 13 2015 07:03 Numy wrote: It's kind of funny how upset Fnatic were after being Origen compared to how happy TL are after being TSM. I guess being unbeaten means you can look at shit performances more objectively.
yeah, fnatic are looking to be competitive against TSM and EDG.
You meant SKT here, right ? And I think Fnatic know they are the best EU team, and they expect flawless games from themselves. So they are often dissapointed in themselves when it doesn't happen.
On July 13 2015 07:17 AsnSensation wrote: would be the first time in the history of lcs that tsm finishes below top2 and goes into playoffs without a bye?
On July 13 2015 07:17 AsnSensation wrote: would be the first time in the history of lcs that tsm finishes below top2 and goes into playoffs without a bye?
On July 13 2015 07:03 Numy wrote: It's kind of funny how upset Fnatic were after being Origen compared to how happy TL are after being TSM. I guess being unbeaten means you can look at shit performances more objectively.
yeah, fnatic are looking to be competitive against TSM and EDG.
You meant SKT here, right ? And I think Fnatic know they are the best EU team, and they expect flawless games from themselves. So they are often dissapointed in themselves when it doesn't happen.
Just watched TSM vs T8 and to be honest it's strange how rarely I see a super early Dragon vs laneswap when that has traditionally been the reason to have 2 bot in the first place.
On July 13 2015 07:51 ptbl wrote: So, T8 has all these globals, but aren't using them to pick people off. Why draft these heroes if you aren't going to use them to your advantage.
I think half of the NA teams are picking fotm picks like TF and Shen without fully understanding how to use them well. Like TSM just played Shen twice and Lustboy's Shen was underwhelming both times
This is why I don't watch T8 games. They execute their global team comp well early game. Then don't do anything to get vision control and allow TF to split push. They even had a pretty good team fight comp that should've also outscaled. It's so versatile, but instead they just derp around.
On July 13 2015 08:08 Sonnington wrote: This is why I don't watch T8 games. They execute their global team comp well early game. Then don't do anything to get vision control and allow TF to split push. They even had a pretty good team fight comp that should've also outscaled. It's so versatile, but instead they just derp around.
they just don't have a good shotcaller, and if their support staff isn't helping them with these rotations they're bad too, but it's impossible to tell on that front.
On July 13 2015 08:22 Caiada wrote: Actually. With the Vayne pick, that could be a pretty interesting adaptation from CLG. Not that I think Vayne is worth countering, but still.
its a great clg adaptation in general just put xmithie on the simplest possible champion so there are less things he can fuck up.Can't wait for them to start playing only nunu
On July 13 2015 08:33 Sonnington wrote: For how poorly Pobelter has traditionally been in lane it really puts things into perspective how well he's controlling the lane vs Ninja.
Sure he is no Bjerg or XWX in lane ? But poor ? Who is better ?
On July 13 2015 08:33 Sonnington wrote: For how poorly Pobelter has traditionally been in lane it really puts things into perspective how well he's controlling the lane vs Ninja.
Sure he is no Bjerg or XWX in lane ? But poor ? Who is better ?
On July 13 2015 09:12 Sufficiency wrote: Looks like TDK is probably 90% locked in relegation now? It looks like they have to win all their games and C9/Enemy has to do all their games.
If C9 loses every game, TDK can win 3 and tie them to play tiebreaker, if NME loses every game, TDK need to win 4. Pretty much miracle, if anyone really believes in it, gl & hf.
On July 13 2015 09:12 Sufficiency wrote: Looks like TDK is probably 90% locked in relegation now? It looks like they have to win all their games and C9/Enemy has to do all their games.
Yea, they could in theory get 7th if they went 4-0 and T8 went 0-4 and c9/NME do too
On July 13 2015 09:12 Sufficiency wrote: Looks like TDK is probably 90% locked in relegation now? It looks like they have to win all their games and C9/Enemy has to do all their games.
If C9 loses every game, TDK can win 3 and tie them to play tiebreaker, if NME loses every game, TDK need to win 4. Pretty much miracle, if anyone really believes in it, gl & hf.
On July 13 2015 09:12 Sufficiency wrote: Looks like TDK is probably 90% locked in relegation now? It looks like they have to win all their games and C9/Enemy has to do all their games.
If C9 loses every game, TDK can win 3 and tie them to play tiebreaker, if NME loses every game, TDK need to win 4. Pretty much miracle, if anyone really believes in it, gl & hf.
Well, who are left to play vs C9/TDK?
You could probably go and look by yourself.
NME/CLG/MSI TDK/TSM for C9 C9/TL/TSM/DIG for NME.
T8/TIP/C9/GRV for MSI TDK though, so it's pretty rip.
The race in NA is much more interesting than in EU, though EU has the better top teams (at least they certainly look it, but given that we thought TSM>>>Fnatic before MSI who knows how it'll rly shake out)
On July 13 2015 13:09 Shiznick wrote: tsm haters basically meme'd the jatt tweet into reality
Yeah. I guess it's the haters fault if TSM banned Olaf, let Fenix have his single best champion, have a jungler sleeping during the first 20 minutes of the games and unable to smite a baron ; and a toplaner unable to prioritize his items correctly.
EPT
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