EPT[OGN] PandoraTV Champions Winter 2013-14 - Page 109
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
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sataNik[pG]
Greece724 Posts
On December 29 2013 18:54 baekgom84 wrote: Was this any different in S3? I agree that League's balancing tends to be too narrowly focused on a particular spectrum of champs/items, but I also can't remember when this wasn't an issue. The main issue for me was the absurd snowballing of competitive games (especially in OGN), which S4 appears to have largely improved. I was not a fan of S3, i was a huge fan of S1. S2 was decent too, it had nice items and masteries but it had the problem of the jungle being too poor in xp and gold rewards, resulting in the "camp top 2v1" meta. S4 gameflow is better than S3. What i really hate are the snowball masteries who give % gains which are doubled in number. Why would you reward the fed carry, the fed tank even more? They are fed anyway, it makes no sense. Remove those and you will see less snowball and more variety. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On December 29 2013 18:29 sataNik[pG] wrote: Dude, seriously how can you not understand it, its simple. When you buy an item you give gold and you get stats, hence the stats are worth gold. The gold worth of these stats is easily and precisely calculatable in every single item. Then you add to the sum a logical prediction of the value of the various passives and actives of the items and some other parameters related to the ease of item path, functionality, synergy with other items, etc. This is the only thing that you can fail to correctly estimate, but even then the item would be slightly underpriced/overpriced. The original BC and BORK were almost 1k gold underpriced. This was a fresh experience, being used to how much better they were at balancing items during S1 and S2. Because the value of stats is bullshit. League wiki uses the most inflamatory that doesn't even remain consistant. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that 1HP5 is worth 36g? Because since rejuv bead is the only pure hp regen item there is. The only thing I could even try to equivicate it to is a health potion, whichrejuv bead needs to sit on for 12.5 minutes to make up for what pot does in 15 seconds for a fraction of the cost. It assigns the 15% CDR on boots of lucidity 633g, where these is 0 basis for such a claim. Fuck, if you look at Spirit Visage's wiki page, the 20% CDR on it is given a value of 644g. On Black Cleaver, 10% is given 322g. Fancy little chart on how their bullshit works out for increasing CDR step values. 10% 322g 15% 311g 20% 011g The original Black Cleaver was a piece of shit that nobody ever bought because anybody with half a brain would have bought Last Whisper instead. BotRK was probably shipped weak because they were scared of BotWK/LW wrecking tanks sooner in the game than Riot thinks their limelight should be. Having statistically poor items isn't refreshing, they're just turds. Get out of nostalgia land. | ||
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baekgom84
Korea (South)375 Posts
On December 29 2013 19:11 sataNik[pG] wrote: I was not a fan of S3, i was a huge fan of S1. S2 was decent too, it had nice items and masteries but it had the problem of the jungle being too poor in xp and gold rewards, resulting in the "camp top 2v1" meta. S4 gameflow is better than S3. What i really hate are the snowball masteries who give % gains which are doubled in number. Why would you reward the fed carry, the fed tank even more? They are fed anyway, it makes no sense. Remove those and you will see less snowball and more variety. I didn't follow S1 so I can't comment on it much, but I wonder if there weren't balance flaws that simply weren't exposed because at that time, the top-tier players didn't have enough knowledge about the game to realise them? Just a thought though. I agree with you about masteries. I wouldn't mind seeing masteries eliminated entirely, or at least grossly simplified. Personally I think they add unnecessary complexity which perhaps could be better implemented through items or runes. IMHO they probably only exist as an incentive for new players or smurfs to level up quicker, who are then encouraged to drop some Riot bucks on XP boosters. | ||
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sataNik[pG]
Greece724 Posts
On December 29 2013 19:32 Gahlo wrote: Because the value of stats is bullshit. League wiki uses the most inflamatory that doesn't even remain consistant. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that 1HP5 is worth 36g? Because since rejuv bead is the only pure hp regen item there is. The only thing I could even try to equivicate it to is a health potion, whichrejuv bead needs to sit on for 12.5 minutes to make up for what pot does in 15 seconds for a fraction of the cost. It assigns the 15% CDR on boots of lucidity 633g, where these is 0 basis for such a claim. Fuck, if you look at Spirit Visage's wiki page, the 20% CDR on it is given a value of 644g. On Black Cleaver, 10% is given 322g. Fancy little chart on how their bullshit works out for increasing CDR step values. 10% 322g 15% 311g 20% 011g The original Black Cleaver was a piece of shit that nobody ever bought because anybody with half a brain would have bought Last Whisper instead. BotRK was probably shipped weak because they were scared of BotWK/LW wrecking tanks sooner in the game than Riot thinks their limelight should be. Having statistically poor items isn't refreshing, they're just turds. Get out of nostalgia land. You are absurd, nobody ever said anything about league wiki and their flawed system. I easily do the math myself in a logical manner and i sadly have the illusion that other ppl can do it too, my bad. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On December 29 2013 18:48 baekgom84 wrote: Seems fine to me? The restrictions on vision require teams to play more carefully even with a gold lead, and allow more opportunities to teams playing from behind. It might need a little tinkering, but once the teams adjust to the new vision mechanics I think a lot of the crazy randomness will cease to be an issue. Well, I dont know. Most of the comebacks so far have been throws, or majic plays like in CJB v KTB Game 1. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On December 30 2013 08:08 chalice wrote: more teamwide overall gold to lessen the impact of early gold leads and losing an inhibitor only affects minion strength in that lane instead of creating pressure in all 3 lanes. Also an end to the ahead team buying 20 pinks meaning that the entire map is black for the behind team which snowballs a lead even further. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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baekgom84
Korea (South)375 Posts
On December 30 2013 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Well, I dont know. Most of the comebacks so far have been throws, or majic plays like in CJB v KTB Game 1. Well, I think most comebacks in this game are enabled by throws of some sort; that's just the nature of these kind of games, in which successful actions rely on some sort of mistake by your opponents. But whereas a throw in S3 usually consisted of some sort of unnecessary and ultimately catastrophic decision at baron, or a late-game teamfight that just goes horribly wrong, a S4 throw can simply be a 50/50 call that ends up backfiring due to a lack of information. I also think 'magic plays' were extremely rare in S3 from a team playing from behind, simply because their lack of strength and information prevented them from attempting anything other than passive defence. I really hope we see teams start to do more interesting things with vision, and learn how to make aggressive plays with a gold deficit. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
in league teamfight volatility can be controlled by having map control (so you control the lane pressures and choose to engage when the opponent has to clear wave pressure elsewhere), vision control, getting strong siege or forced initiation lineups etc. teams pick their lineup always with the question of "how do we close a game" in mind, and as a result no matter how you patch the game to introduce more volatility, pro teams will choose lineups that minimize volatility in sieging when they have advantage. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 30 2013 23:27 cLutZ wrote: I would say the core problem is still the same, it is just hidden a bit. Basically, what it comes down to is that the team that is winning never has to take risks, and still the team behind is left in a situation where it cannot make plays (or the plays it wants to). The difference is that gold snowballs less, and without strong vision control the winning team plays more safely, which means the optimal strategy isn't really snowballing in that way. But if the gold differences are harder to achieve (that is right, no?) that kinda means that you have more time to make plays etc. Gold snowball is like the only real snowball that matters i feel, if you have a harder time getting a gold and therefore item lead it gives the team that is a little bit behind time to close the gap again. Nonetheless i would love to see riot look at their lategame items and change the efficiency a little bit, i love the concept of items which are efficient per place and not per gold for the lategame. | ||
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sataNik[pG]
Greece724 Posts
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WiseBagus
Canada452 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On January 01 2014 14:26 WiseBagus wrote: My only resolution is too watch Xenics win and move on to the final. And then 3-0 an undefeated SKT K | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
frost and the jin air teams are so bad | ||
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