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On September 18 2013 17:31 Shiznick wrote:
I think a big factor in C9 looking better in their games against TSM in the regionals is that they play team fight comp vs team fight comp by TSM, so they want to engage the dragons, win fights, roll advantages and dive hard.
SKT, so far, has been playing pick comps that play around either a. choking a team with vision/fear to get free objectives or b. picking off players who are out of position due to vision advantage. Also I think that naturally when you see a pick comp like skt's vs a team fight comp like TSM's, the pick comp won't look as steamrolly as C9's games because they have to play with a lot of finesse to both avoid the big 5v5s that TSM wanted to engage while capitalizing on positional errors.
Although, I have to admit that despite piglet being my ~~~favorite player~~~, SKT's bot lane is seriously not respecting the corki enough. That damage is bananas yo.
Yeah, poohmandu is really overextending sometimes. That lane has good poke but sona also has good sustain. If corki isn't low enough when they all in it's pretty much impossible for caitlyn to win out on that.
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For me group A seem decided, group B is much more interesting! Hope SKT meet C9 in the quarterfinals and C9 shows a great game.
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Piglet and Mandooh didn't respect the corki&Xpecial lane at all and thought they could outplay 2v2.
They even pushed up to tower all the time although they had no tower to cover them, it didnt't help that Oddone also camped the lane. Piglet still went even and beastmode later.
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Yay, i won 100€ again from a friend.  "TSM WONT TAKE A SINGLE GAME FROM A TOP EUROPEAN TEAM, I CAN ALMOST BET MY LIVER ON THAT"
Well, my liver is in a good condition, so i only took the money. :p
I've been fighting for weeks with my friends about the skill difference between NA and EU, i've always said its a LOT closer then they give it credit for, and this tournament is starting to show it.
Was fun seeing Dyrus Vlad finally, So much hype for it, and he kinda lived up to it. TSM played it greatly with the early wards, got those 1v1 and 2v2 lanes. I think LD should of switched early, No reason to let Dyrus farm up with Vlad.
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I'm curious have the teams automatically seeded into quarterfinals been able to practice with the other teams at Worlds? If not I feel like they are at a pretty large disadvantage against the other quarterfinal teams.
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I think the main problems with koreans right now is that their players rely on their coach too much. The coach does everything. They draw up the strats, tell people how to fix their play, do all the research, etc. But one person can't do all that for you. The players need to be involved as well and start watching games more often and find all the mistakes in their play and all the things they can pick up from other players. A coach looks at the big picture, but I think the players would learn a lot from looking at the details. Studying the game and balancing mind with mechanics is really important. The koreans have really pushed mechanics to the limits this past year, but there's still ways to improve.
I think the main reason why the koreans have looked so impressive to us is because their mechanical level is the best in the world, but when you take all the details, strategy, picks and bans into account it can look a lot different.
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On September 18 2013 17:45 Gaslo wrote:Yay, i won 100€ again from a friend. "TSM WONT TAKE A SINGLE GAME FROM A TOP EUROPEAN TEAM, I CAN ALMOST BET MY LIVER ON THAT" Well, my liver is in a good condition, so i only took the money. :p I've been fighting for weeks with my friends about the skill difference between NA and EU, i've always said its a LOT closer then they give it credit for, and this tournament is starting to show it. Was fun seeing Dyrus Vlad finally, So much hype for it, and he kinda lived up to it. TSM played it greatly with the early wards, got those 1v1 and 2v2 lanes. I think LD should of switched early, No reason to let Dyrus farm up with Vlad.
And that's without NA's best team playing.
On September 18 2013 17:40 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 17:34 Gahlo wrote:On September 18 2013 17:24 red_ wrote:On September 18 2013 17:16 Gahlo wrote:On September 18 2013 17:10 Itsmedudeman wrote:On September 18 2013 17:04 Gahlo wrote:On September 18 2013 17:01 red_ wrote:On September 18 2013 16:43 Iceman331 wrote:On September 18 2013 16:35 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
The real question now is just how fucking far ahead of everybody is C9??
xD I don't see C9 dropping a BoX series to any team I have watched so far. They are miles ahead in terms of clean execution. Some serious fanboy going on. The gap between regions may not be as large as expected(and much of this is due to Ozone), but I have no idea where you're getting 'miles ahead' from. C9 is a lot better than TSM and TSM is scrapping it out in the group of death. You're really underestimating how much these teams have improved since getting here If teams have improved this much between regionals to now, I see no reason to expect C9 to have sat on their asses and not get better. I don't even care about that. TSM is 'scrapping it out' and still losing handily against OMG and SKT. As I said at first, the gap is closer than expected, but I don't see how even by proxy c9 looks MILES AHEAD. Maybe they look 'close to as good' as the Asian teams, but people are reading too much into some distributive property of games won. I mean if it worked like that, TSM destroyed LD who also 'scrapped it out' against the top teams in the group, but that didn't help their position at all either. Also I think there's some rose colored hindsight glasses for c9 involved. They had their fair share of stomps for sure, but they also had their fair share of wins that looked exactly(or worse than) the ones we have seen so far. They lost early game so many times against their NA counterparts and came back in to win it, it's not like they always had a 5k gold lead at 15 minutes. I think you're overly defensive about C9, or I'm giving Iceman331 more credit than he deserves. I took it as a comparison between TSM and C9. Rewind a few weeks to NA regionals. C9 was miles ahead of TSM in just about every phase of the game. Even if C9 improved HALF as much as TSM has since then, C9 is still a much better team than TSM is. Due to C9 and TSM being basically sister teams I don't think that is far out of possibility, unless the group stage is the Hyperbolic Time Chamber of League. In NA, TSM is far and away my favorite team, but that doesn't stop me from acknowledging that C9 was far better than them I really can't make sense of your post, I didn't disagree with c9 being better than TSM, which is all you are talking about. Also Iceman's post clearly states 'I can't see c9 dropping a boX to any team I've seen so far.' By his own logic(teams relative standing prior to worlds is usable to for distributive property from these group stage games), he thinks c9 will win worlds in a cakewalk apparently. How else are you supposed to read it?
I already told you how I read it. Though I guess if you wanted to flat apply the difference from regionals onto how groups have worked out so far, I don't think it's too far fetched to believe that C9 would cakewalk. No more than the assumption of how well SKT was going to do before groups started.
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I wonder who c9 is practicing against. Hopefully they practice against omg. Omg seems pretty active in finding other regions to practice against (practiced with all of eu group b), offers to skt and ozone etc. It seems that the omg meta is strong and practicing with them seems to improve rhythm and gameplay a lot. Hopefully it also improves c9s early game...
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On September 18 2013 17:43 AsnSensation wrote:
Piglet and Mandooh didn't respect the corki&Xpecial lane at all and thought they could outplay 2v2.
They even pushed up to tower all the time although they had no tower to cover them, it didnt't help that Oddone also camped the lane. Piglet still went even and beastmode later.
I'm not 100%, but that could have been planned by SKT; they managed to put a lot of damage onto the bottom tower while drawing OddOne to the bottom lane to alleviate the tower pressure.
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On September 18 2013 17:57 Shiznick wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2013 17:43 AsnSensation wrote:
Piglet and Mandooh didn't respect the corki&Xpecial lane at all and thought they could outplay 2v2.
They even pushed up to tower all the time although they had no tower to cover them, it didnt't help that Oddone also camped the lane. Piglet still went even and beastmode later. I'm not 100%, but that could have been planned by SKT; they managed to put a lot of damage onto the bottom tower while drawing OddOne to the bottom lane to alleviate the tower pressure.
If that was the plan they should've warded a lot more heavily so they didn't have to die and lose dragon. But yes, the aggression was so that they had a lot of pressure on all 3 lanes which they did. TSM and theoddone in particular did well to go to the best places possible and capitalize on it. If oddone went top after dyrus was so behind SKT would have gained a much bigger advantage so I don't think it was SKT's plan to draw theoddone bottom as it wasn't necessary.
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Gosh, tried to watch Azubu using the rewind feature since I got up before the broadcast was over. Wtf is that? It's freezing twice or so per minute, with a a picture of the next 8 seconds, only the sound playing, and the video starts playing again when the broadcast reaches that picture. It's so annoying.
Well, seems like the broadcast is over so I'll just watch using Twitch VoDs. --"
I'm under the impression that LD vs OMG went awry when nukeduck tried to go for Tristana because she had Spectre's Cowl but he didn't have Void Staff yet, so he failed not only to kill her, but also to take her out of the fight (Barrier kept her health high). He got the Void Staff in time for the next teamfight so I'm wondering if he just tried too hard to force the issue, or if it was an unlucky timing for how they wanted to pressure OMG and keep the momentum.
Piglet ks'd Faker so much during SKT vs GamingGear, dammit Piglet, don't fuck my fantasy team like that! So good for people with both of them compared to those like me with only Faker. :<
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im sad that c9 wasnt in groups now. I want to see how they fare against the other regions. I think they definitely can beat the kr teams and at least put up a good fight against omg
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well I have to say TSM played well today. Even tho giving 2 first kills to LD they won (was a close game for most part imo). we see Dyrus Vlad is pretty strong. And well Regis Zed.. I didnt read the whole disuccion here and I guess there was a huge discussion at TL about him going like 7-0 Zed vs LD^^. You cant take it from him good job, but TheOddOne was babysitting him (normal thing too, I like babysitting mid too so he can snowball).
About vs SKT - well TSM did pretty well also, even better than LD probably, but this Corki man is pretty strong and Koreans have to recgonize him - either ban or pick. Piglets Cait was pretty luck at times and Kor botlane was really cocky like full pushing bot without ward and turret.
well overall iam pretty impressed by TSM. C9 tho, I saw them going like 15-4 in regular seaons and finals 3 - 0 stomp vs TSM, so they look strong.
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Piglet can play corki for sure but I don't think he respects it as much as he should. It's definitely a tier 1 pick right now but I think he still favors caitlyn over it.
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Read how much better than expected TSM did againt SKT, watch game TSM just dies a slow death trading dragons for inner towers, Regi doing his best to go unnoticed and WT suiciding to get two kills on Faker.
Come on guys did you expect TSM to surrender at 20 minutes? 
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well there were bigger stomps than SKT vs TSM. so they did kinda good after all the hype for Kor and all the antihype for Regi who I never saw playing before (i saw his incredible Zed play on yt tho - diving a turrent mistaking the shadows and death).
edit: anyone got this movie somewhere linked? comparison of Zed Faker and Zed Regi and there were some flash fails from ashes arrows and pro lee sin playz? was so fun for the hype xD
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As an European, I just watched the game. I think Reginald's mentality was "must NOT LOSE lane" instead of "must WIN lane". He was just afraid of Faker.
I was just thinking of something. Would it have been a good move to leave both Ahri and Zed open? Faker would have chosen Zed 100%, but then Regi would have gotten Ahri which is far better then his Gragas.
Or leave Zed, ahri and shen open. I still think faker would have taken zed in this situation, but dyrus on shen would have been much metter.
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Regi should have picked something like Diana imo, his Gragas really isn't that good. Even his Brand is better(why did he stop playing him anyway? He was beast with Brand).
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Just watched the game. Regi just didn't do shit, and didn't die. He was so scared while his team TRIED to do some something.
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EPT
