OMG <Bye> Royal Club Huang Zu OMG <Draft Pick> Royal Club Huang Zu OMG <Draft Pick> Royal Club Huang Zu OMG <Draft Pick> Royal Club Huang Zu OMG <Draft Pick> Royal Club Huang Zu
*Winner of WB Finals start with a 1-0 advantage
Royal Club Huang Zu advances to Season 3 World Championship Quarterfinals! OMG advances to Season 3 World Championship Group Stage!
Strange not to see WE there but instead their "b team" surpassing them. I have to admit I never really followed the Chinese scene, so I'm obviously very interested in OMG with all the hype that they're getting.
On September 07 2013 03:04 Scip wrote: Are these teams any good/worth watching in the opinions of our experts here? :3 Haven't seen a chinese game in ages.
Oh most definitely! The Chinese are still a strong favourite for Worlds, alongside Korea of course. Korea may be seen as stronger right now, but both regions are really competitive and it's entirely possible for China to overtake Korea (although it would surprise me greatily if it actually happened).
I'm actually pretty doubtful of China's chances against Korea.
Last week when the interviewer asked Cool about OMG's scrim record against Korean teams he dodged the question saying something along the lines of "oh it's hard to tell things from scrims because people are all going to be hinding things, etc.". If it were close to 50/50 he would have no qualms saying its about 50/50, which implies that either their record is very good (and he's being modest) or it's very bad (and he's ashamed to say it).
Given that all Chinese/Korean scrims happen on the Korean server with ping advantage, it makes it hard for me to believe that OMG's scrim record could be that good against the likes of T1 or Ozone, leading me to believe that their record against Korean teams has taken a turn for the worse. And if OMG doesn't have a chance vs. the best Korean teams, neither will the other Chinese teams.
On September 07 2013 03:10 TheYango wrote: Last week when the interviewer asked Cool about OMG's scrim record against Korean teams he dodged the question saying something along the lines of "oh it's hard to tell things from scrims because people are all going to be hinding things, etc.". If it were close to 50/50 he would have no qualms saying its about 50/50, which implies that either their record is very good (and he's being modest) or it's very bad (and he's ashamed to say it).
How do you know he's not hiding something? I think that analyzing a single comment to determine a regional's success is pretty dicey.
That said, I think only OMG looks strong out of China, but I called them the C9 of China for a reason. Strong regular season performance but a lack of international LAN experience and results. I don't think any other Chinese team looks as strong as OMG.
I'm hoping they pull this one out, though I still have reservations about San's ability.
Aw crap I've gotta get up early if I want to watch this, and it'll run at the same time as OGN's tomorrow's Bo5. How do their VoDs work? Subscription, or simply available, or not easily unless you can browse Chinese sites? I assume they'd be on the channel or something, since it seems like it's an official Riot channel (for Twitch at least).
On September 07 2013 03:10 TheYango wrote: I'm actually pretty doubtful of China's chances against Korea.
Last week when the interviewer asked Cool about OMG's scrim record against Korean teams he dodged the question saying something along the lines of "oh it's hard to tell things from scrims because people are all going to be hinding things, etc.". If it were close to 50/50 he would have no qualms saying its about 50/50, which implies that either their record is very good (and he's being modest) or it's very bad (and he's ashamed to say it).
Given that all Chinese/Korean scrims happen on the Korean server with ping advantage, it makes it hard for me to believe that OMG's scrim record could be that good against the likes of T1 or Ozone, leading me to believe that their record against Korean teams has taken a turn for the worse. And if OMG doesn't have a chance vs. the best Korean teams, neither will the other Chinese teams.
I was basing any hope of China legitimately taking Koreans down on the Koreans not being used to their style. If they're already scrimming and it's not working then that changes things a little. I still hope that maybe OMG can do good things at Worlds. There's a lot of optimism going into Worlds, I hope non-koreans can put up a fight.
Haha, the LoL classic "I hope Westerners can put up a fight against Asians" has turned into "I hope non-Koreans can put up a fight". Maybe we should call them foreigners in LoL, too.
iG has been the only team able to beat OMG consistently in the LPL summer split. Could be an upset, but iG hasn't looked to stellar beyond that.
I would say Royal also has the edge against PE as that Uzi/Tabe lane is scary. But I think it comes down to the junglers in this match up. Lucky has never stood out to me and PE just lost Jing last week.
Yeah, the Chinese teams haven't improved that much, compared to the Koreans imo. In the Spring split, they were practically stagnant on S2 strategies and "how to beat WE", while most of the Summer split was catching up in the S3 meta. Further, they do lack the crisp teamfighting of the Koreans, not to mention objective control and overall game theory. Previously, their biggest advantage was their mechanics and teamfighting prowess, but Korea has taken it to a whole new level, while China has improved only slightly over WE's peak towards the end of last year (but has obviously improved greatly in other areas).
To be honest, they are just slightly to reasonably below the Koreans in every aspect of the game at the moment, except for the area of champ variety. Chinese teams are much more innovative in terms of champion picks, but they are not as innovative in terms of overall strategy. They may pick champions based on lane match-ups and counters, but these are mostly bit-and-pieces strategy rather than a comprehensive one.
I was disappointed with WE failing to make it to worlds, because despite their meta troubles in S3, they can still go toe to toe with most Korean teams, especially in a LAN setting. While OMG might be dominant in China right now, I really can't see them doing well at Worlds - I actually put them at C9 or even slightly below their level imo, whereas Royal or WE would probably demolish C9.
On September 07 2013 12:46 Jaksiel wrote: I recall reading things about potential visa issues for the Chinese teams. Has there been any update on that in the past few days?
On September 07 2013 12:46 Jaksiel wrote: I recall reading things about potential visa issues for the Chinese teams. Has there been any update on that in the past few days?
On September 07 2013 12:41 ketchup wrote: These match times are fairly good to NA East, and definitely good for NA West if they are correct. Thanks for creating the thread!
Going to see if the hype for OMG/Royal is properly placed. gg
Is midnight that good of a time? Now im worried i fucked the time up again.
On September 07 2013 12:41 ketchup wrote: These match times are fairly good to NA East, and definitely good for NA West if they are correct. Thanks for creating the thread!
Going to see if the hype for OMG/Royal is properly placed. gg
Is midnight that good of a time? Now im worried i fucked the time up again.
west coast is 10:45pm. About as good as you're gonna get for an asian event. Compared to stuff like 3-6am of OGN, I'll take it.
On September 07 2013 13:44 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 07 2013 12:41 ketchup wrote: These match times are fairly good to NA East, and definitely good for NA West if they are correct. Thanks for creating the thread!
Going to see if the hype for OMG/Royal is properly placed. gg
Is midnight that good of a time? Now im worried i fucked the time up again.
west coast is 10:45pm. About as good as you're gonna get for an asian event. Compared to stuff like 3-6am of OGN, I'll take it.
Mostly this. It's a little bit worse for East coast though. Considering it is the weekend, it's a lot easier to get away with doing something like this. As an added bonus, it all lines up fairly well with Chinese Qualifiers into Korean Finals.
I find it hilarious that we don't even know who will qualify and you can already vote on the "Korea Seed 3" versus "China Seed 2" match, and Korea has almost 90% of the votes, haha.
On September 07 2013 15:17 UmberBane wrote: Lmao have you guys seen the voting on http://na.lolesports.com/schedule for the first upcoming matches?
I find it hilarious that we don't even know who will qualify and you can already vote on the "Korea Seed 3" versus "China Seed 2" match, and Korea has almost 90% of the votes, haha.
Well I'd pick KTB or MVP Samsung Galaxy Ozone over any Chinese team any day of the week.
But then again TSM is favored 60-40 over China Seed 2.
EDIT:
On September 07 2013 15:25 Jobber wrote: These casters are extremely lackluster. I'm honestly playing the pirates of the carribean theme in the background to try and keep myself hyped.
Over here it's really early in the morning so it works for me.
Im not sure about iGs comp. They could try banning or taking Sona. Really they should just do a different comp, they didn't look very strong with it when they were teamfighting.
On September 07 2013 15:44 glzElectromaster wrote: That wasn't really close at all. Meh.
iG has two ways to engage, and 2 ways to fight.
1. Jungle fights. Fizz rengar and noct dominate these fights, and cait zyra are definitely one of the strongest as well in the jungle due to range and kit.
2. Noct goes in, and under the cover of nocturne ultimate, rengar jumps in and oneshots vayne because only sona(with oracles), would've been able to even see him.
Fuck either of those up, and iG's comp is doomed to fail because how much they invest just to train down san. OMG did a good job of always having a pink ward just for backup vision on rengar.
Someone explain to me how Yorick Jungle works. Does he excel in counter jungling or objective control in some way that is superior to the junglers we usually see?
the thing w/ #2, they actually excuted at the end but it doesn't matter because yorick just ults vayne and you have 2 assassins that get sona ulted, all while zed's going after cait
On September 07 2013 15:51 ketchup wrote: Someone explain to me how Yorick Jungle works. Does he excel in counter jungling or objective control in some way that is superior to the junglers we usually see?
If you have cc in lane the gank might work, but just to make the enemy recall so you can push with ULT... I think this is the strategy.
Yorick jungle so long as he gets blue buff is actually quite fast, and he is one of the strongest anti-dive champions there are.
despite the amount of front loaded burst iG had, if a yorick ghost came back, I don't think they had the damage to burst it twice, especially in fights away from bush.
On September 07 2013 16:01 oneofthem wrote: these hero icons...get better artists please
the hero icons are all pretty good, karthus is that way because chinese law requires no depictions of skulls so it was hastily blacked out when game was launched...guess it stuck
On September 07 2013 16:16 lefty wrote: OMG looking very sharp this match, iG can't seem to keep up. I wonder what the thought process behind the Khazix pick was.
Must be a PDD thing, this pick killed their chances to comeback...
iG is not the team they used to be. Either PDD lets his ego get him again, or they are poorly prepared for this match. Either way, that composition in Game 2 is so so outdated.
PE really threw the game away with that NaMei Ziv facecheck. Up until then they were easily winning, and after that they just kept getting picked off. Also, why was NaMeI's cs so low at the latter stages of that. His CS was equal to Jax and jojo was way ahead.
Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
On September 07 2013 17:26 Baffels wrote: Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
On September 07 2013 17:26 Baffels wrote: Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
Reports said his girlfriend got pregnant.
weird thing about that is, if you're a pro lol player, you're best chance at a stable income is probably staying a pro lol player. quitting your source of income because your gf got pregnant doesn't seem to be the smartest thing to do...
On September 07 2013 17:26 Baffels wrote: Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
Reports said his girlfriend got pregnant.
weird thing about that is, if you're a pro lol player, you're best chance at a stable income is probably staying a pro lol player. quitting your source of income because your gf got pregnant doesn't seem to be the smartest thing to do...
I guess he has to prepare to become a father, if that's his plan, and find a more stable job and also one that lets you spend time with family.
On September 07 2013 17:26 Baffels wrote: Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
Reports said his girlfriend got pregnant.
weird thing about that is, if you're a pro lol player, you're best chance at a stable income is probably staying a pro lol player. quitting your source of income because your gf got pregnant doesn't seem to be the smartest thing to do...
I guess he has to prepare to become a father, if that's his plan, and find a more stable job and also one that lets you spend time with family.
yeah but thats my point exactly. if you're a pro lol player you probably either a) are under aged or b) didn't finish college. I don't know what the economy in china is like, but the likelihood of a ex-pro lol player having a strong resume to get a decent job or at the very least a job better than his pro career is pretty unlikely..
On September 07 2013 17:48 glzElectromaster wrote: Is WE actually worse than iG right now? If that's so, it's pretty depressing.
i think they actually performed better than iG this season in LPL, but iG has their rankings from the spring split getting them into the worlds qualifiers
Not really related, but I'm excited to see how well Vici Gaming does in the Chinese scene. They have two WC3 legends in TeD and Fly on their squad. Not too sure how their skill will translate to MOBA though.
On September 07 2013 17:53 GTR wrote: Not really related, but I'm excited to see how well Vici Gaming does in the Chinese scene. They have two WC3 legends in TeD and Fly on their squad. Not too sure how their skill will translate to MOBA though.
On September 07 2013 17:53 GTR wrote: Not really related, but I'm excited to see how well Vici Gaming does in the Chinese scene. They have two WC3 legends in TeD and Fly on their squad. Not too sure how their skill will translate to MOBA though.
Do those guys even have Dota experience? If they got picked up just cause they were pro in WC3 it'll be about 2 years before they're good enough.
On September 07 2013 17:53 GTR wrote: Not really related, but I'm excited to see how well Vici Gaming does in the Chinese scene. They have two WC3 legends in TeD and Fly on their squad. Not too sure how their skill will translate to MOBA though.
Do those guys even have Dota experience? If they got picked up just cause they were pro in WC3 it'll be about 2 years before they're good enough.
It seems to be VG's current thing of picking up former big names, they had ZSMJ, are pretty much confirming they are gonna bring yaphets over to dota 2 and they have infi on their SC2 team.
On September 07 2013 17:48 glzElectromaster wrote: Is WE actually worse than iG right now? If that's so, it's pretty depressing.
No, We 3:0 against iG during the regular season. iG is ranked 5th in the summer season, aka last among the tier 1 teams. iG has not taken one game off either WE or PE. On the other hand, WE lost all their games against OMG and Royal during the summer season.
Did the OMG vs RC match happen? Had to go after the first Royal win vs PE, and the stream now says iG vs PE next while the op says OMG vs Royal next, and there def hasn't been enough time for a full Bo3 to be played while I was away,
On September 07 2013 18:59 Alaric wrote: Did the OMG vs RC match happen? Had to go after the first Royal win vs PE, and the stream now says iG vs PE next while the op says OMG vs Royal next, and there def hasn't been enough time for a full Bo3 to be played while I was away,
No they have not played. More than likely, they will play tomorrow. Since they are showing PE vs iG Lower bracket at the moment.
I didn't watch a lot of the game because of OGN at the same time, didn't PE seemed to have a tower and gold advantage early on? It at least looked pretty close (despite Renek being super behind iG's top) until iG seized the momentum and pressure more with a stronger teamfight comp, from what I've managed to catch.
On September 07 2013 20:21 Alaric wrote: I didn't watch a lot of the game because of OGN at the same time, didn't PE seemed to have a tower and gold advantage early on? It at least looked pretty close (despite Renek being super behind iG's top) until iG seized the momentum and pressure more with a stronger teamfight comp, from what I've managed to catch.
How did the game go?
Didn't see many portions, but I did manage to pick up on some big Fizz ults as well as PDD's Zhonyas/DCap Kennen doing some good work. Kid looks pretty comfortable on Corki. I just hope IG doesn't go back to Kid mid with Zz1tai on AD. They looked fairly decent this game, but I expect them to draw some bans in G2.
With their performance against the PE series, it almost seemed that iG intentionally give up their game 2 vs OMG. There is very little other explanation than that. Rather than fighting an extracted losing battle against a formidable foe which reveals all their cards, they just save them against a lesser opponent.
On September 07 2013 17:35 glzElectromaster wrote:
On September 07 2013 17:30 bokchoi wrote:
On September 07 2013 17:27 Fusilero wrote:
On September 07 2013 17:26 Baffels wrote: Gotta wonder why Jing chose to retire right before Summer play offs and world qualifying. PE looked strong in the laning phase but got crushed in the vision and objective phase.
Reports said his girlfriend got pregnant.
weird thing about that is, if you're a pro lol player, you're best chance at a stable income is probably staying a pro lol player. quitting your source of income because your gf got pregnant doesn't seem to be the smartest thing to do...
I guess he has to prepare to become a father, if that's his plan, and find a more stable job and also one that lets you spend time with family.
yeah but thats my point exactly. if you're a pro lol player you probably either a) are under aged or b) didn't finish college. I don't know what the economy in china is like, but the likelihood of a ex-pro lol player having a strong resume to get a decent job or at the very least a job better than his pro career is pretty unlikely..
and goddamn uzi is beast.
If your girlfriend is pregnant, you're getting married. That's how it works in China, in part by culture and in part because it's incredibly diffcult to get proper citizenship identification from the government for a child in China born out of wedlock. Marriage is means that more matters than what you and your girlfriend want, because marriage involves the joining of two families, and good luck trying to convince a Chinese father-in-law that a guy who plays video games for a living is going to provide a stable situation for his daughter and grandchild.
People will say different things but China is pretty highly regarded in Korea. Koreans will always say something along the lines of "I don't want to meet a korean team or chinese team" during tournaments. China has had a big injection of talent this past year and next to Korea I'd say they've shown the most overall region growth.
Their team play can be a bit strange and different but individually I think the top teams have some huge talents and may even be better than their korean counterparts in certain roles. I've been particularly impressed by their ADCs and OMGCool.
Royal really shot themselves in the foot getting picked off and their map movement wasn't great either. Everyone should've been pressuring the map more and looking for picks but it happened the other way around.
Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
I had bigger expectations too. A team like C9 is gonna stomp these guys.
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
I had bigger expectations too. A team like C9 is gonna stomp these guys.
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
I had bigger expectations too. A team like C9 is gonna stomp these guys.
The big question is that do the US LCS teams put so much early game pressure as the LPL teams? I don't think so. The uneven comparison makes any judgement built on shaky ground at the moment. We'll see at worlds.
the chinese have a very different style than other regions. The question come world's is who will have to adjust to who? Whose style is stronger and needs to be dealt with and reacted to? C9 is very good at making trades though, and usually they don't lose objectives for free.
On September 08 2013 16:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 08 2013 16:26 krndandaman wrote:
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
On September 08 2013 16:29 [SuNdae] wrote:
On September 08 2013 16:26 krndandaman wrote:
On September 08 2013 16:21 1ntrigue wrote: Biggest problem in China is the lack of vision control, and accordingly, the poor team movement and map pressure. Chinese teams and supports need to be applying that map control much earlier and more consistently. It's one of the main reasons that Chinese games seem so scrappy compared to Korean and even some of the NA/EU LCS games.
On the other hand, you get XiaoXiao who wards too dangerously too often.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
I had bigger expectations too. A team like C9 is gonna stomp these guys.
you guys are delusional
Did you watch the games? Maybe I'm overreacting/underestimating from the small sample pool (only today's games) but I was seriously disappointed.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
If this game is anything to go by, even c9 can dumpster iG and Royal.
And this is not judging on early game plan or laning, come mid and late game their decision making looks extremely reckless and desperate..
these guys are young players but that does not excuse the mistakes. they are not that new of a team. some of these strategic mistakes should have been pointed out and drilled out of them already by this point, after what, two seasons of LPL play?
or they were extremely nervous on this stage, could be.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
If this game is anything to go by, even c9 can dumpster iG and Royal.
And this is not judging on early game plan or laning, come mid and late game their decision making looks extremely reckless and desperate..
This is just pure conjecture with no sources of cross-referencing what-so-ever. There's just way of proof, or dis-proof when it comes to these kind of discussions where we just "imagine" how a series would play out based on our judgements. For example, are you that sure that the bottom-lane of Cloud9 would be strong enough to withstand the might of Uzi? Who is to say that the snowballing of the advantages from that lane alone would ruin everything else for Cloud9? We can draw certain conclusions from watching these games, but the fact of the matter is, saying such things really holds no weight, especially when you're dragging up the subject of the relative strength of Cloud9, which is something that not even the players of Cloud9 could not know for sure.
Further more, due to the set-up of Season 3 World Championship, I would go as far as to say that Cloud9 has just as much chance as having their tournament run end without having met a single Chinese team.
On September 08 2013 18:03 krndandaman wrote: I also don't agree with the annie pick at all. It's very risky. I can see why they would want it alongside jarvan because of the instantaneous AOE stun, but that's the only thing she provides pretty much. I'd rather have Nami/Zyra that can do a similar job while providing so much more utility.
Support Annie has been Royal's signature strategy through the latter half of LPL Summer and was basically undefeated in round robin play. The comp has its flaws but as drafted it's actually a very strong teamcomp. Though the huge WTF was Royal letting Orianna through bans because Orianna makes it really fucking hard to make it work (they banned it most games during the LPL season).
I think the flaw with chinese drafts is that they're very theoretical. In an ideal scenario, iG can kite forever, and if somebody gets caught, yorick ulti will bring them back to "tank" while everybody else continues to DPS. They don't really draft to counter, they draft because something should work.
Zzitai goes down in a solo kill after achieving nothing. Tabe goes down to critical health and gets away while Uzi picks up XiaoXiao and later Kid with a well-timed gank. Royal outclassing iG
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
If this game is anything to go by, even c9 can dumpster iG and Royal.
And this is not judging on early game plan or laning, come mid and late game their decision making looks extremely reckless and desperate..
This is just pure conjecture with no sources of cross-referencing what-so-ever. There's just way of proof, or dis-proof when it comes to these kind of discussions where we just "imagine" how a series would play out based on our judgements. For example, are you that sure that the bottom-lane of Cloud9 would be strong enough to withstand the might of Uzi? Who is to say that the snowballing of the advantages from that lane alone would ruin everything else for Cloud9? We can draw certain conclusions from watching these games, but the fact of the matter is, saying such things really holds no weight, especially when you're dragging up the subject of the relative strength of Cloud9, which is something that not even the players of Cloud9 could not know for sure.
Further more, due to the set-up of Season 3 World Championship, I would go as far as to say that Cloud9 has just as much chance as having their tournament run end without having met a single Chinese team.
For starters, I am questioning their mid and late-game decision making, which has so far shown to be lacking. I am not questioning their early game and laning proficiency and Uzi is definitely the ADC I rate as strongest from what I have seen.
And my dear friend, surely you don't expect me to reference any studies or the sort of LOL in general. One of the points of this forum is to debate and share what little knowledge we have on the issue.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
Yes, but I was pointing those examples out because those are the plays that really stuck out to me as "wow that's really bad". And knowing that OMG is one of the top (if not the best) teams in China, I really didn't expect that. There are many other things I question as well.
Some more examples if it helps- in game 2 ez/janna go for 2man dragon after the huge fight despite it being obvious they couldn't get it because of how low they were. Meanwhile, renek is taking blue. If you're gonna go for the dragon at least go for it all together, or just take blue and back. It was facepalm worthy and resulted in getting their tower pressured from backing so late. I also don't agree with the annie pick at all. It's very risky. I can see why they would want it alongside jarvan because of the instantaneous AOE stun, but that's the only thing she provides pretty much. I'd rather have Nami/Zyra that can do a similar job while providing so much more utility. They seem to be way behind the trends as well. So much focus on ganks/kills over towers. Also lack of vision and tons of diving despite said lack of vision.
Nami/Zyra? The purpose of Royal's team composition is to initiate and burst down one member of the opposing team. Now tell me, whose ult is good at initiating team fights for Nami/Zyra?
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
If this game is anything to go by, even c9 can dumpster iG and Royal.
And this is not judging on early game plan or laning, come mid and late game their decision making looks extremely reckless and desperate..
This is just pure conjecture with no sources of cross-referencing what-so-ever. There's just way of proof, or dis-proof when it comes to these kind of discussions where we just "imagine" how a series would play out based on our judgements. For example, are you that sure that the bottom-lane of Cloud9 would be strong enough to withstand the might of Uzi? Who is to say that the snowballing of the advantages from that lane alone would ruin everything else for Cloud9? We can draw certain conclusions from watching these games, but the fact of the matter is, saying such things really holds no weight, especially when you're dragging up the subject of the relative strength of Cloud9, which is something that not even the players of Cloud9 could not know for sure.
Further more, due to the set-up of Season 3 World Championship, I would go as far as to say that Cloud9 has just as much chance as having their tournament run end without having met a single Chinese team.
For starters, I am questioning their mid and late-game decision making, which has so far shown to be lacking. I am not questioning their early game and laning proficiency and Uzi is definitely the ADC I rate as strongest from what I have seen.
And my dear friend, surely you don't expect me to reference any studies or the sort of LOL in general. One of the points of this forum is to debate and share what little knowledge we have on the issue.
Well, I know next to nothing about both the Chinese, and North American scene. However, taking a look back at some of the stuff I predicted about the Korean scene, something I am quite familiar with, I find that I'm talking out of my ass half the time, if not more so. I've seen Uzi single handidly wreck destroy some of the best bot lanes in the world, but I'm not going to play a fool and start making wild conjectures based on those few games I've watched. It's the same with Cloud9, I believe that the level of decision making is quite sound, but I get the feeling that their laning phase can be exploited by top level players. However, this is all conjecture on my part.
All teams have glaring weaknesses that can be exploited. Just because we have the insight to point them out, it doesn't make us prophets, and making outlandish predictions based upon those observations makes for very provacative discussions based more on hunches, and personal predispositions. Then looking back on it months afterwards, I often realize how stupid I was. Seriously, it's hard enough predicting results of a single region, where we have all the information available.
The production for this tournament has been terrible. I'm saying this watching the chinese stream, but they need less cosplay and better production everywhere else. The sound is terrible, and you can't hear the crowd whatsoever. This isn't just regionals either, it's supposed to be their championships.
I don't see good decision making either. For example, last game ezreal arcane shifts over wall into base to try to kill a full health twitch and has to flash out. Vayne getting greedy this game and flashing for a kill only to not get it and get stunned in a bush by renek at level 1. Perhaps I expected too much, but I thought China would be far ahead of the NA and EU scene. I don't think so.
You're essentially judging the entire region by San's play, when San is by any reasonable opinion the worst ADC among the top 5 teams in LPL and arguably the worst player on OMG depending on who's playing.
Top level teams in every region have weak players that get carried by their stronger teammates, this is not exclusive to CN.
If this game is anything to go by, even c9 can dumpster iG and Royal.
And this is not judging on early game plan or laning, come mid and late game their decision making looks extremely reckless and desperate..
This is just pure conjecture with no sources of cross-referencing what-so-ever. There's just way of proof, or dis-proof when it comes to these kind of discussions where we just "imagine" how a series would play out based on our judgements. For example, are you that sure that the bottom-lane of Cloud9 would be strong enough to withstand the might of Uzi? Who is to say that the snowballing of the advantages from that lane alone would ruin everything else for Cloud9? We can draw certain conclusions from watching these games, but the fact of the matter is, saying such things really holds no weight, especially when you're dragging up the subject of the relative strength of Cloud9, which is something that not even the players of Cloud9 could not know for sure.
Further more, due to the set-up of Season 3 World Championship, I would go as far as to say that Cloud9 has just as much chance as having their tournament run end without having met a single Chinese team.
For starters, I am questioning their mid and late-game decision making, which has so far shown to be lacking. I am not questioning their early game and laning proficiency and Uzi is definitely the ADC I rate as strongest from what I have seen.
And my dear friend, surely you don't expect me to reference any studies or the sort of LOL in general. One of the points of this forum is to debate and share what little knowledge we have on the issue.
Well, I know next to nothing about both the Chinese, and North American scene. However, taking a look back at some of the stuff I predicted about the Korean scene, something I am quite familiar with, I find that I'm talking out of my ass half the time, if not more so. I've seen Uzi single handidly wreck destroy some of the best bot lanes in the world, but I'm not going to play a fool and start making wild conjectures based on those few games I've watched. It's the same with Cloud9, I believe that the level of decision making is quite sound, but I get the feeling that their laning phase can be exploited by top level players. However, this is all conjecture on my part.
All teams have glaring weaknesses that can be exploited. Just because we have the insight to point them out, it doesn't make us prophets, and making outlandish predictions based upon those observations makes for very provacative discussions based more on hunches, and personal predispositions. Then looking back on it months afterwards, I often realize how stupid I was. Seriously, it's hard enough predicting results of a single region, where we have all the information available.
Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. If my little proclamations upsets you I apologize. But really I am not someone aiming for best predictions or anything of the sort so permit my little whims
That said, Chinese game looks really messy in general.
Edit: LOL Lucky could have lived if he didn't give up running.
Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
you cannot compare wh1t3zzzzz to faker sorry, but it just doesn't work like that
royal is much more bottom heavy, i'd compare them more to CLG in korea (chaulift times)
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
No, Lucky's been the weakest player on Royal for a long time, but the lack of strong junglers in CN has been a problem since well before S2 finals.
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
Doubt it. Historically Royal is exactly like SKT T1 in reputation, carried by their mid and ADC, only they are a team built more around Uzi as opposed to T1 which was built around Faker.
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
Lucky is not a very consistent player. But Royal and OMG are the only teams playing with a brain. Good day for Chinese LoL scene, the two best performing team at the moment advanced.
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
On September 08 2013 19:29 Fionn wrote: Royal is a Poor Man's SK Telecom. You could argue Uzi and Piglet, but they play a similar style, but SKT just does it a lot better with their skirmishing, diving, and fighting across the map. Royal were really sloppy at times, but I think White and especially Uzi have some great skill.
Their Jungler I don't know about. I didn't watch LPL Summer, but I haven't really been impressed by him. Was he good in the regular season?
you cannot compare wh1t3zzzzz to faker sorry, but it just doesn't work like that
royal is much more bottom heavy, i'd compare them more to CLG in korea (chaulift times)
That's why I said a Poor Man's SKT.
Their team compositions and styles are similar -- not the players (well, you could argue Piglet and Uzi).
In no way do I think White is close to Faker, but that's why I said Poor Man's SKT. If he was Cool, then they could be a Suburban School Teacher's SKT.
On September 08 2013 19:33 Kavas wrote: Doubt it. Historically Royal is exactly like SKT T1 in reputation, carried by their mid and ADC, only they are a team built more around Uzi as opposed to T1 which was built around Faker.
Fionn go petition for CJ to sign Uzi for Blaze :D
No, Wh1t3zz has not really been that stellar--you're giving him far too much credit.
Wh1t3zz is sort of weird because while he is extremely proficient at certain mid heroes, his ability to play the "basics" in the current game is very lacking (his Zed is mediocre and his Ori is un-pick-ably bad).
This is what leads to such weird drafts when its Royal vs. other Chinese teams because picking against them is a completely different ball game given that Wh1t3zz on mid is completely unlike any other mid player.
On September 08 2013 19:33 Kavas wrote: Doubt it. Historically Royal is exactly like SKT T1 in reputation, carried by their mid and ADC, only they are a team built more around Uzi as opposed to T1 which was built around Faker.
Fionn go petition for CJ to sign Uzi for Blaze :D
No, Wh1t3zz has not really been that stellar--you're giving him far too much credit.
Wh1t3zz is sort of weird because while he is extremely proficient at certain mid heroes, his ability to play the "basics" in the current game is very lacking (his Zed is mediocre and his Ori is un-pick-ably bad).
This is what leads to such weird drafts when its Royal vs. other Chinese teams because picking against them is a completely different ball game given that Wh1t3zz on mid is completely unlike any other mid player.
So they're like SKT if Faker was replaced by MidKing?
by that logic any team with a decent adc is a poor man's SKT wh1t3zz is a competitive player, but not a carrying mid by any means
no matter the shit that i seem to be smearing though, royal very much deserve to be one of the two teams advancing atm. players like Uzi are the future for chinese league
On September 08 2013 19:38 Navi wrote: by that logic any team with a decent adc is a poor man's SKT wh1t3zz is a competitive player, but not a carrying mid by any means
no matter the shit that i seem to be smearing though, royal very much deserve to be one of the two teams advancing atm. players like Uzi are the future for chinese league
but don't royal play usually a lot of assassins, try to pick up a lot of kills early, and rely on their playmaking abilities to win?
or do they play 4 protect 1 like old Impzone and CLG?
On September 08 2013 19:38 Navi wrote: by that logic any team with a decent adc is a poor man's SKT wh1t3zz is a competitive player, but not a carrying mid by any means
no matter the shit that i seem to be smearing though, royal very much deserve to be one of the two teams advancing atm. players like Uzi are the future for chinese league
but don't royal play usually a lot of assassins, try to pick up a lot of kills early, and rely on their playmaking abilities to win?
or do they play 4 protect 1 like old Impzone and CLG?
i need to watch more lpl T_T
AFAIK never 4p1. Honesly the most striking memory of White's games I remember were his Kassadin.
that's speaking way too generally. "assassins" in general are much more viable in the current patch due to the relatively little you lose from picking a high mobility champion - worst case scenario you have a very solid splitpusher, best case scenario you can instagib someone straight out of the enemy team, with only a few midlaners from the more lower mobility higher teamfight aoe control era still relevant in drafts (ori and karth)
They played 4 protects 1 back when they were losing games to everyone, lol. But this was like, LPL Spring. Overall their draft has evolved since Tabe rejoined the team.
Most of their success in LPL Summer has come from developing this style that is cognizant of their individual and team weaknesses.
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
When he was on support he was widely considered the best support in China.
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
When he was on support he was widely considered the best support in China.
After the jungle switch, ehh...
He must have grown tired of hearing China's junglers were all lacklustre compared to other regions. Can't say he's a massive upgrade though.
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
When he was on support he was widely considered the best support in China.
After the jungle switch, ehh...
cant argue the results though. post switch is when omg started getting the big results
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
When he was on support he was widely considered the best support in China.
After the jungle switch, ehh...
cant argue the results though. post switch is when omg started getting the big results
??? They were doing very strongly in LPL Spring before the switch as well. Their success in Summer is more attributable to their development as a team and the falling off of iG and WE as competitor teams, and not to the role swap.
On September 08 2013 19:58 Fionn wrote: I've liked OMG's top laner, but it seems like some people were making fun of him. Is he considered bad or something? His Renekton was nice.
Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
On September 08 2013 19:50 Fionn wrote: From the regionals, it feels like Uzi and Cool are the superstars of China like Faker, Piglet, Imp, etc. in Korea.
Is there anyone else regarded as well as those two?
I'll probably watch some Royal/OMG LPL Summer games this weekend so I'm well suited for articles and such.
LoveLin is highly regarded, I preferred him when he was support though.
When he was on support he was widely considered the best support in China.
After the jungle switch, ehh...
cant argue the results though. post switch is when omg started getting the big results
??? They were doing very strongly in LPL Spring before the switch as well. Their success in Summer is more attributable to their development as a team and the falling off of iG and WE as competitor teams, and not to the role swap.
On September 08 2013 19:58 Fionn wrote: I've liked OMG's top laner, but it seems like some people were making fun of him. Is he considered bad or something? His Renekton was nice.
Gogoing is fairly well regarded.
im not arguing that they weren't doing strongly, but the fact is they were just a step behind. whether its the role switch or not something started clicking and it got them over the hump, which allowed them to capture the lpl spring championships in play offs and the star wars grand finals. also, the falling off of iG and we has to be credited to other teams getting better, you can't argue that iG and WE just got worse cuz that didn't happen, they became worse relative to their opponents because other teams got better
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
Dan Dinh then leads TSM to the world finals.
I'd still say China's MVP is uzi.
can't be MVP on the losing team
then again royal just took game 2 (aka game 1) so maybe he still can be
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
I want Royal Club to lose so that I can witness Uzi versus Piglet. Cool has never wowed me to the level Uzi has on numerous occasions. I think Uzi has a serious case for being called the best in his position, whereas with Cool it's more of regional pride sort of thing.
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
Dan Dinh then leads TSM to the world finals.
I'd still say China's MVP is uzi.
Yes, but it's a better storyline to say Reginald vs. China and Korea's MVP's.
Then you do a Rocky montage of Regi training by running up stairs, eating ramen, smashing keys on his keyboard, and it ends with a shot of Regi running down the street. The camera pans out and it's Regi on Dyrus' back, yelling at him to run fucking faster or he's kicked from the house.
On September 08 2013 20:02 bokchoi wrote: im not arguing that they weren't doing strongly, but the fact is they were just a step behind. whether its the role switch or not something started clicking and it got them over the hump, which allowed them to capture the lpl spring championships in play offs and the star wars grand finals. also, the falling off of iG and we has to be credited to other teams getting better, you can't argue that iG and WE just got worse cuz that didn't happen, they became worse relative to their opponents because other teams got better
Well, iG sort of stalled out their own growth with the ill-fated role swap that went nowhere.
On September 08 2013 20:02 bokchoi wrote: im not arguing that they weren't doing strongly, but the fact is they were just a step behind. whether its the role switch or not something started clicking and it got them over the hump, which allowed them to capture the lpl spring championships in play offs and the star wars grand finals. also, the falling off of iG and we has to be credited to other teams getting better, you can't argue that iG and WE just got worse cuz that didn't happen, they became worse relative to their opponents because other teams got better
Well, iG sort of stalled out their own growth with the ill-fated role swap that went nowhere.
Don't think anyone will ever truly know why kid and zztai swapped.
after seeing iG poop themselves in the regular season, we finally see zz and kid back in their original roles and take a convincing game 1 off of royal. did they decide this recently lol?
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
Dan Dinh then leads TSM to the world finals.
I'd still say China's MVP is uzi.
Yes, but it's a better storyline to say Reginald vs. China and Korea's MVP's.
Then you do a Rocky montage of Regi training by running up stairs, eating ramen, smashing keys on his keyboard, and it ends with a shot of Regi running down the street. The camera pans out and it's Regi on Dyrus' back, yelling at him to run fucking faster or he's kicked from the house.
i would like to see misaya's zed vs regi's zed though
On September 08 2013 20:02 bokchoi wrote: im not arguing that they weren't doing strongly, but the fact is they were just a step behind. whether its the role switch or not something started clicking and it got them over the hump, which allowed them to capture the lpl spring championships in play offs and the star wars grand finals. also, the falling off of iG and we has to be credited to other teams getting better, you can't argue that iG and WE just got worse cuz that didn't happen, they became worse relative to their opponents because other teams got better
Well, iG sort of stalled out their own growth with the ill-fated role swap that went nowhere.
Don't think anyone will ever truly know why kid and zztai swapped.
wow gonna say i went this whole weekend without realizing why kid was sitting in the middle. why would they switch zzitai and kid. wasn't zzitai one of the best and consistent midalners in china ?
On September 08 2013 20:02 bokchoi wrote: im not arguing that they weren't doing strongly, but the fact is they were just a step behind. whether its the role switch or not something started clicking and it got them over the hump, which allowed them to capture the lpl spring championships in play offs and the star wars grand finals. also, the falling off of iG and we has to be credited to other teams getting better, you can't argue that iG and WE just got worse cuz that didn't happen, they became worse relative to their opponents because other teams got better
Well, iG sort of stalled out their own growth with the ill-fated role swap that went nowhere.
Don't think anyone will ever truly know why kid and zztai swapped.
wow gonna say i went this whole weekend without realizing why kid was sitting in the middle. why would they switch zzitai and zzitai was one of the best and consistent midalners in china wasnt he?
They swapped back for Worlds qual. They played most of LPL Summer with Kid on mid and Zzitai on AD.
The results were very unimpressive. Honestly I feel like they lost ground based on not practicing on their normal roles, when if they'd played the entire season with Zzitai mid and Kid AD, they probably could have qualified and looked a hell of a lot better.
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
Dan Dinh then leads TSM to the world finals.
I'd still say China's MVP is uzi.
Yes, but it's a better storyline to say Reginald vs. China and Korea's MVP's.
Then you do a Rocky montage of Regi training by running up stairs, eating ramen, smashing keys on his keyboard, and it ends with a shot of Regi running down the street. The camera pans out and it's Regi on Dyrus' back, yelling at him to run fucking faster or he's kicked from the house.
Wait, I think you may be onto something here. Does anyone have a complete list of seasonal MVPs for each of the major regions? It indeed would make for fantastic storylines.
Korea Winter: Maknoon Spring: Dade Summer: Faker
China Spring: Cool Summer: ?
Taiwan/South East Asia -> Don't think there are any.
North America Spring: ? Summer (play-offs): Meteos
On September 08 2013 20:01 Fionn wrote: Is it bad I want Royal to win so that we get Cool vs. Faker?
I also want to see Regi take on China and Korea's MVP's back to back. If he beat both of them, he should retire on the spot, leave the arena and never be seen again.
Dan Dinh then leads TSM to the world finals.
I'd still say China's MVP is uzi.
Yes, but it's a better storyline to say Reginald vs. China and Korea's MVP's.
Then you do a Rocky montage of Regi training by running up stairs, eating ramen, smashing keys on his keyboard, and it ends with a shot of Regi running down the street. The camera pans out and it's Regi on Dyrus' back, yelling at him to run fucking faster or he's kicked from the house.
i would like to see misaya's zed vs regi's zed though
Misaya isn't that terrible. But they are similar in they crack under pressure as captain of their team.
The Zed play where he got outplayed by Uzi is just him trying to make plays when they were behind. In games where WE are ahead you will rarely see him try to make risky 1 v 1 plays.
On September 08 2013 20:19 Fionn wrote: also gambit's current unis are fucking gray sweatshirts and white polos with their logo on them, so i might put them last.
their old moscow 5 unis were iconic.
at least their clean. sktt1's uniforms look messy: clashing colors awkward logo placement
On September 08 2013 20:19 Fionn wrote: also gambit's current unis are fucking gray sweatshirts and white polos with their logo on them, so i might put them last.
their old moscow 5 unis were iconic.
at least their clean. sktt1's uniforms look messy: clashing colors awkward logo placement
Can you guys give us any idea what you're talking about?
I saw the finals and I didn't think they were that bad.
On September 08 2013 20:30 Alaric wrote: I'm lost as to why there are so many games. Double elim format, with Royal coming from the loser's bracket or something?
On September 08 2013 20:34 bokchoi wrote: nice ult tabe. i hope this is just a really poor showing from tabe l0l
Royal on the whole is playing really shitty. Again, 8 games in a row with no breaks tends to do this to people.
And yet they've pretty much fully recovered somehow.
Idk what OMG are doing. They're just mindlessly walking around the map looking confused where to be when caitlyn needs to be pushing towers. Lovelin should just go bot with cait + thresh and take that tower for free cause twitch and annie refuse to leave mid.
to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
On September 08 2013 20:56 Itsmedudeman wrote: Jesus. That escalated quickly. No one capable of controlling fizz. Just destroyed the adcs.
Funny because he never managed to snipe either of the ADCs.
Ezreal and Cait just couldn't do anything when there's no frontline. Mundo can tank but can't really peel off the J4, aatrox and fizz diving like madmen.
i feel that may hold true for OMG, but less so for Royal. Royal has a very unique playstyle and draft, and while others will be able to research this to some extent, I'm sure playing against it in person will be a whole other beast. However, they can also be very shaky at times - enough so that I wouldn't be confident in guaranteeing their advance from groupstages in a group with Ozone and co. I feel they have the unique skillset to make a deeper run against some of the better teams - a real potential to win vs some of the top Korean teams, for example - that I think OMG will lack from the get go. On the other hand, OMG has a very steady playstyle and decision making that should net them easy wins versus less coordinated opponents. I haven't watched enough of Lemondogs and co to be able to gauge this, but I would guess that the western scene is a little less stellar on the coordination issue. On the other hand, on just pure execution and the razor sharp playstyle of Ozone and the other Korean teams, I feel OMG would really benefit from an early loss to Ozone in the groups to be able to experience first hand what they will need to play against in the upper rounds.
tldr; i think omg losing this would be best for china to make a deeper run.
On September 08 2013 20:55 Fionn wrote: to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
I feel bad for GamingGear. Apparently they were losing to European Challenger teams in practice. Now you get to play Faker and Cool along with the longstanding North American empire and Europe's regular season winners.
Well the loser won't be against Ozone, they'll be in the group with SKT. With that said I cannot see SKT not coming out of this group first place. It'll be a free for all for second but crazy shit can happen when styles clash like this.
I still don't think OMG losing this spells good news. OMG was supposed to be the c9 of china but they're now showing a lack of fortitude as the pressure builds and it gets into the later stages of playoffs. This isn't the first time that's happened either.
I give the chinese scene a lot of respect considering the WE era and the growth of LoL in China this past year, but without adapting their play and learning from other regions it's going to be hard to build consistency without relying simply on outlaning their opponents. Even the Koreans change their play based on what happens overseas and try new things while playing optimally. China's greatest weakness is their isolation after the koreans came up with the optimal meta.
On September 08 2013 21:03 Fionn wrote: Group A is SKT, TSM, Lemondogs, and GamingGear.
I feel bad for GamingGear. Apparently they were losing to European Challenger teams in practice. Now you get to play Faker and Cool along with the longstanding North American empire and Europe's regular season winners.
How come GG.eu got to take part in the international qualifiers? Why should teams that can't make it to their own regions premier tournament be allowed to participate?
On September 08 2013 20:55 Fionn wrote: to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
Last season the teams with byes to the quarters didn't seem to be off at all, and they were scrimming eachother before their official matches. But this year, out of the 4 teams with byes only Sword has any international experience so that may be an issue.
On September 08 2013 21:03 Fionn wrote: Group A is SKT, TSM, Lemondogs, and GamingGear.
I feel bad for GamingGear. Apparently they were losing to European Challenger teams in practice. Now you get to play Faker and Cool along with the longstanding North American empire and Europe's regular season winners.
How come GG.eu got to take part in the international qualifiers? Why should teams that can't make it to their own regions premier tournament be allowed to participate?
The wild card tournament was open to teams from all the new servers that Riot opened this year. With Russia getting their own server, they were allowed to participate in that tournament, qualify from that, and then go on to win the wild card slot. It was a way to showcase and give a new region a huge opportunity to showcase itself against the world's best, but it just turned out to give another European team a slot into the tournament.
On September 08 2013 20:55 Fionn wrote: to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
that arrogance will be their downfall
That is just nonsense. Everybody would love to skip the group stage.
On September 08 2013 20:55 Fionn wrote: to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
that arrogance will be their downfall
That is just nonsense. Everybody would love to skip the group stage.
Yeah, I don't think they're throwing on purpose, but getting 2nd isn't the worst thing. It's probably better for a team if they feel that they can get 1st or 2nd in their group.
But yeah, anyone would want a guarantee $50,000 and a week of hanging out in Los Angeles while the other teams have to work their asses off and play a ton of games.
On September 08 2013 21:03 Fionn wrote: Group A is SKT, TSM, Lemondogs, and GamingGear.
I feel bad for GamingGear. Apparently they were losing to European Challenger teams in practice. Now you get to play Faker and Cool along with the longstanding North American empire and Europe's regular season winners.
How come GG.eu got to take part in the international qualifiers? Why should teams that can't make it to their own regions premier tournament be allowed to participate?
The wild card tournament was open to teams from all the new servers that Riot opened this year. With Russia getting their own server, they were allowed to participate in that tournament, qualify from that, and then go on to win the wild card slot. It was a way to showcase and give a new region a huge opportunity to showcase itself against the world's best, but it just turned out to give another European team a slot into the tournament.
So is Gambit not considered part of the Russian/CIS region?
On September 08 2013 21:03 Fionn wrote: Group A is SKT, TSM, Lemondogs, and GamingGear.
I feel bad for GamingGear. Apparently they were losing to European Challenger teams in practice. Now you get to play Faker and Cool along with the longstanding North American empire and Europe's regular season winners.
How come GG.eu got to take part in the international qualifiers? Why should teams that can't make it to their own regions premier tournament be allowed to participate?
The wild card tournament was open to teams from all the new servers that Riot opened this year. With Russia getting their own server, they were allowed to participate in that tournament, qualify from that, and then go on to win the wild card slot. It was a way to showcase and give a new region a huge opportunity to showcase itself against the world's best, but it just turned out to give another European team a slot into the tournament.
So is Gambit not considered part of the Russian/CIS region?
On September 08 2013 20:55 Fionn wrote: to be honest, getting 2nd is probably better long-term if you're confident in making out of groups.
If you get directly into Ro8, you get a week off, don't get to test yourself against the other regions, and then get thrown into a Bo3 against more than likely SKT/Ozone/Royal-OMG/Fnatic-Gambit-TSM-Vulcun.
On the other hand, if you go through groups, you get Sword, the Bears, Cloud 9, or the other Chinese team. The added experience of playing those 8 games against the rest of the world and then an "easier" draw in the quarterfinals could be beneficial.
Last season the teams with byes to the quarters didn't seem to be off at all, and they were scrimming eachother before their official matches. But this year, out of the 4 teams with byes only Sword has any international experience so that may be an issue.
I've actually heard some rumours about practice sessions last year. Like there was hardly any privacy available, so in order to minimize strategy leaks, teams actually refrained from scrimming one another, except for Invictus Gaming, who were very confident going into the tournament. I hoping (but not expecting) Riot to improve on this situation, and allow teams to go into the tournament being able to showcase their full potential.
I'm guessing the Korean teams will partner one another, like Azubu Frost and Najin Sword did last year. Teams who have less representation from their region, such as Gamania Bears might struggle to get any practice partners.
On September 08 2013 21:18 Fionn wrote: Shield is being sent to L.A to practice with Sword.
If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if SKT and Ozone were to practice with each other. SKT T1 sent them to World's after all. I don't think SKT will be practicing against international teams considering Impact said they thought they would be more comfortable with their opponents not knowing their style.
On September 08 2013 21:18 Fionn wrote: Shield is being sent to L.A to practice with Sword.
If that's the case I wouldn't be too surprised if SKT and Ozone were to practice with each other. SKT T1 sent them to World's after all. I don't think SKT will be practicing against international teams considering Impact said they thought they would be more comfortable with their opponents not knowing their style.
SKT also practices with NaJin Sword and sent Sword to worlds. Honestly, I expect the Korean teams to help each other up until the point where they might face each other. dat Korean national pride.
as i watched most of EU LCS and now im ONLY watching china finals ive to say that euro teams make IMO much better decisions.. really - jax following into obvious trap from OMG, now Royal fizz+shen dive, before annie death to turret, really this chinese teams dont look that good as u ppl here say.
On September 08 2013 20:19 Fionn wrote: also gambit's current unis are fucking gray sweatshirts and white polos with their logo on them, so i might put them last.
their old moscow 5 unis were iconic.
Have you seen the stuff they will be wearing for Worlds?
On September 08 2013 20:19 Fionn wrote: also gambit's current unis are fucking gray sweatshirts and white polos with their logo on them, so i might put them last.
their old moscow 5 unis were iconic.
Have you seen the stuff they will be wearing for Worlds?
On September 08 2013 22:05 Dan HH wrote: I don't know about that, TSM has a decent chance in that group to fight for 2nd. OMG & Lemondogs look a bit better but they aren't unapproachable.
On the other hand, I think Vulcun is even gonna have trouble with Mineski.
I hope TSM loses versus the wildcard. Wait...who's in their group.
On September 08 2013 22:05 Dan HH wrote: I don't know about that, TSM has a decent chance in that group to fight for 2nd. OMG & Lemondogs look a bit better but they aren't unapproachable.
On the other hand, I think Vulcun is even gonna have trouble with Mineski.
I hope TSM loses versus the wildcard. Wait...who's in their group.
On September 08 2013 22:05 Dan HH wrote: I don't know about that, TSM has a decent chance in that group to fight for 2nd. OMG & Lemondogs look a bit better but they aren't unapproachable.
On the other hand, I think Vulcun is even gonna have trouble with Mineski.
I hope TSM loses versus the wildcard. Wait...who's in their group.
Damn i love people coming to conclusion after 1-2 sets. Like People said OMG is the only who get chance fighting koreans now they said tsm/ld look better then OMG.
On September 08 2013 22:30 skykh wrote: Damn i love people coming to conclusion after 1-2 sets. Like People said OMG is the only who get chance fighting koreans now they said tsm/ld look better then OMG.
Haven't seen a single person saying that. I'm rooting for Lemondogs in that group but that doesn't mean I think they are favorites.
And I like how you got from "OMG & Lemondogs look a bit better [than TSM]" to "now they said tsm/ld look better then OMG".
On September 08 2013 22:30 skykh wrote: Damn i love people coming to conclusion after 1-2 sets. Like People said OMG is the only who get chance fighting koreans now they said tsm/ld look better then OMG.
Well previously, people only had hype to go off and all the Chinese hype was hyping OMG to be on the level of the top Korean teams. Now after this poor showing, OMG is failing the eye test. However, overall it really feels like they didn't care/weren't trying. Depending on how brackets turn out, this could've been a ploy to potentially avoid facing SKT T1 in the play-offs. What we can all say is, that showing definitely wasn't the OMG that was being hyped as the unstoppable train of China. Now we'll just have to wait and see if the hype was all hype or if this was just a poor/nonchalant showing by OMG in the finals.
All of this TSM hate is pretty funny. Most likely every NA/Euro team will get rolled equally, but we'll see. I'm really hoping that Gambit gets destroyed because they're the team with the most undeserved hype going into worlds. They aren't M5 anymore, folks.
On September 09 2013 01:06 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: yay what i hoped for came true
Order too? Don't lie.
yes?
ask znf i was talking with him last night, is aid i wanted royal in quarters directly so they can gay someone with fizz annie cause no one is gonna actually research them cuz they'll be too busy trying to get out of groups huehue
also i said royal is less stable and might have a harder time in groups vs a variety of styles, whereas i think omg will cruise
On September 09 2013 01:06 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: yay what i hoped for came true
Order too? Don't lie.
yes?
ask znf i was talking with him last night, is aid i wanted royal in quarters directly so they can gay someone with fizz annie cause no one is gonna actually research them cuz they'll be too busy trying to get out of groups huehue
also i said royal is less stable and might have a harder time in groups vs a variety of styles, whereas i think omg will cruise
Yeah. I was pretty sure csheep was fanboi'ing when he found out that what he wanted came true.
On September 09 2013 00:01 Headshot wrote: All of this TSM hate is pretty funny. Most likely every NA/Euro team will get rolled equally, but we'll see. I'm really hoping that Gambit gets destroyed because they're the team with the most undeserved hype going into worlds. They aren't M5 anymore, folks.
Alex Ich and Diamondprox are still on that team. I'll still root for Gambit as long as that's the case.
I also think C9 has more undeserved hype, but w/e that's just me
On September 09 2013 03:21 oneofthem wrote: how are the quarterfinal matchups determined?
They didn't say yet. But I wouldn't be surprised if they based it off the All-star since they have absolutely no other objective criteria. So I assume Sword/Royal vs 2nd place in each group and C9/Gamania vs 1st place.
On September 09 2013 00:01 Headshot wrote: All of this TSM hate is pretty funny. Most likely every NA/Euro team will get rolled equally, but we'll see. I'm really hoping that Gambit gets destroyed because they're the team with the most undeserved hype going into worlds. They aren't M5 anymore, folks.
Alex Ich and Diamondprox are still on that team. I'll still root for Gambit as long as that's the case.
I also think C9 has more undeserved hype, but w/e that's just me
It's probably just the Reddit Gambit circle-jerk getting to me, but GG will be very lucky to make it out of group stages. Their bottom lane and top lane are nowhere near world-class. I'm not sure how much weight Alex and Diamond can bear.
And I would agree with you that C9 is a bit overhyped, but you can't really blame people. They are the best team to ever come out of NA and our only hope to make a splash at Worlds. That being said, they have zero international experience, so it will be a tossup.
The constant NA bashing on TL/Reddit gets old, though. I'd love to see C9 mutilate any Euro team to shut up the pretentious masses.
Gambit's chances are basically riding on the fact that they are a Russian team, and Russian teams are notorious for showing 150% of their regular season performance at big LANs where everything is on the line.
Even Gambit/M5 has this reputation of "lose to everyone online, beat everyone on LAN".
On September 09 2013 05:06 TheYango wrote: Gambit's chances are basically riding on the fact that they are a Russian team, and Russian teams are notorious for showing 150% of their regular season performance at big LANs where everything is on the line.
Even Gambit/M5 has this reputation of "lose to everyone online, beat everyone on LAN".
*cough* Na'Vi *cough*.
I do think the anti-NA jerk is sometimes a bit undeserved, but then again, TSM has never won against KR teams, most of the big EU teams have. CLG.eu even had a good run in OGN, unlike CLG.na. And People don't have much faith in C9 because they are untested, just like people don't have all that much faith in LemonDogs to do well.
EU is putting their money on Gambit/Fnatic (which might backfire horribly) and NA doesn't really have a team that has performed really well internationally and has a lot of big LAN experience. Yeah, TSM used to rule the world, but ever since they got dethroned by the Koreans they haven't been doing great. They have problems against the top teams (even EU teams) ever since S2 qualifiers.
It also doesn't really help that there are so few intercontinental tournaments. Now that LCS is going on, stuff like IPL 5 is dead which imo is a shame. One intercontinental tournament a year is not enough.
I personally think EU is weaker then NA at the moment so I don't really understand all the hate. I feel like NA has one truly high quality team in c9 and EU has none. I'd rate Vulcun and Lemondogs pretty similarly as solid teams but with no hope of actually competing at worlds after the group stage. Gambit/Fnatic/TSM I'd also rate relatively similarly and even though they are experienced LAN teams I don't think they will accomplish much at worlds ( I'd only give Fnatic an outside shot of beating a team after the group stage). As for all the middling teams from these regions that didn't make worlds, I don't rate one region any higher then the other. I don't think EG is any better then Dig/CLG or NiP any better then Curse. The only difference is that c9 is a genuinely good team, and the only one in both regions.
On September 09 2013 06:49 Pantagruel wrote: I personally think EU is weaker then NA at the moment so I don't really understand all the hate. I feel like NA has one truly high quality team in c9 and EU has none. I'd rate Vulcun and Lemondogs pretty similarly as solid teams but with no hope of actually competing at worlds after the group stage. Gambit/Fnatic/TSM I'd also rate relatively similarly and even though they are experienced LAN teams I don't think they will accomplish much at worlds ( I'd only give Fnatic an outside shot of beating a team after the group stage). As for all the middling teams from these regions that didn't make worlds, I don't rate one region any higher then the other. I don't think EG is any better then Dig/CLG or NiP any better then Curse. The only difference is that c9 is a genuinely good team, and the only one in both regions.
What makes you think that C9 is a genuinely good team and the only one in both regions, and not that the other NA teams are just a lot worse than C9 and EU? C9 had 3 losses in LCS, 2 Vulcun, 1 CLG.
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, it's just another possibility. C9 dominated the NA scene, which should indicate that either C9 is massively better than the rest of NA/EU, or the rest of NA is far worse than EU which would mean C9 is at the same level as high teams in EU.
This plus the history from the latest intercontinental clashes (IPL 5, S2) is heavily biased against NA. Yes, it's long ago. But it's the only data we have.
Anyway, for the NA teams I am rooting for C9 to do well. I really hope they can make a dent in the Asian domination. Meteos vs Diamond is a matchup I still really want to see.
We'll see in a week how things will go, first match of the tournament is TSM vs GamingGear, giving us a good indication of NA vs EU.
On September 09 2013 06:49 Pantagruel wrote: I personally think EU is weaker then NA at the moment so I don't really understand all the hate. I feel like NA has one truly high quality team in c9 and EU has none. I'd rate Vulcun and Lemondogs pretty similarly as solid teams but with no hope of actually competing at worlds after the group stage. Gambit/Fnatic/TSM I'd also rate relatively similarly and even though they are experienced LAN teams I don't think they will accomplish much at worlds ( I'd only give Fnatic an outside shot of beating a team after the group stage). As for all the middling teams from these regions that didn't make worlds, I don't rate one region any higher then the other. I don't think EG is any better then Dig/CLG or NiP any better then Curse. The only difference is that c9 is a genuinely good team, and the only one in both regions.
What makes you think that C9 is a genuinely good team and the only one in both regions, and not that the other NA teams are just a lot worse than C9 and EU? C9 had 3 losses in LCS, 2 Vulcun, 1 CLG.
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, it's just another possibility. C9 dominated the NA scene, which should indicate that either C9 is massively better than the rest of NA/EU, or the rest of NA is far worse than EU which would mean C9 is at the same level as high teams in EU.
This plus the history from the latest intercontinental clashes (IPL 5, S2) is heavily biased against NA. Yes, it's long ago. But it's the only data we have.
Anyway, for the NA teams I am rooting for C9 to do well. I really hope they can make a dent in the Asian domination. Meteos vs Diamond is a matchup I still really want to see.
We'll see in a week how things will go, first match of the tournament is TSM vs GamingGear, giving us a good indication of NA vs EU.
I thought the latest data was Allstars.
Neither team was a real team, but it was supposedly the best players from NA vs the best from EU.
On September 09 2013 07:03 Doctorbeat wrote: We'll see in a week how things will go, first match of the tournament is TSM vs GamingGear, giving us a good indication of NA vs EU.
2nd best NA team vs ~15th best EU team won't give us a good indication
On September 09 2013 07:03 Doctorbeat wrote: We'll see in a week how things will go, first match of the tournament is TSM vs GamingGear, giving us a good indication of NA vs EU.
2nd best NA team vs ~15th best EU team won't give us a good indication
On September 09 2013 06:49 Pantagruel wrote: I personally think EU is weaker then NA at the moment so I don't really understand all the hate. I feel like NA has one truly high quality team in c9 and EU has none. I'd rate Vulcun and Lemondogs pretty similarly as solid teams but with no hope of actually competing at worlds after the group stage. Gambit/Fnatic/TSM I'd also rate relatively similarly and even though they are experienced LAN teams I don't think they will accomplish much at worlds ( I'd only give Fnatic an outside shot of beating a team after the group stage). As for all the middling teams from these regions that didn't make worlds, I don't rate one region any higher then the other. I don't think EG is any better then Dig/CLG or NiP any better then Curse. The only difference is that c9 is a genuinely good team, and the only one in both regions.
What makes you think that C9 is a genuinely good team and the only one in both regions, and not that the other NA teams are just a lot worse than C9 and EU? C9 had 3 losses in LCS, 2 Vulcun, 1 CLG.
I'm not saying this is necessarily true, it's just another possibility. C9 dominated the NA scene, which should indicate that either C9 is massively better than the rest of NA/EU, or the rest of NA is far worse than EU which would mean C9 is at the same level as high teams in EU.
This plus the history from the latest intercontinental clashes (IPL 5, S2) is heavily biased against NA. Yes, it's long ago. But it's the only data we have.
Anyway, for the NA teams I am rooting for C9 to do well. I really hope they can make a dent in the Asian domination. Meteos vs Diamond is a matchup I still really want to see.
We'll see in a week how things will go, first match of the tournament is TSM vs GamingGear, giving us a good indication of NA vs EU.
Just using the eye test I suppose. In c9 I see a team that has a cohesive strategy and draft in all of their games which cannot be said for the other teams in NA or EU. In game they efficiently play to the strengths of their draft and have dominated the NA scene. Furthermore, EU has never been vastly superior to NA anyways so I don't see why that would change now. Simply by looking at the games though, you can come to the conclusion that c9 is the best team out of both regions. We'll simply have to wait until worlds to get any empirical evidence.
I feel like C9 will really struggle though against a team like Royal Club or SKT. Those teams know that C9's glaring weakness is their lane phase and Meteos' lack of ganks. Teams that have crazy good lane players like Faker, Piglet, PoohManDu or a team like Royal which loves early game aggression will eat C9 alive during early game. Even if C9 is better than them at team work or cohesion (I don't think they are) it may not matter if SKT or MVPO or Royal or OMG gets a huge advantage in the first ten minutes or so.
I'm holding out hope that C9 will do well. But personally if the brackets allow it my money is that the semi-finals will be Najin Sword, MVP Ozone, SKT, and either Royal or OMG. Only teams I could see contesting that are C9, Fnatic, and maybe Gambit (but personally I think Gambit has almost no shot at making it into semis). Though who knows maybe Gamania Bears will pull a TPA this year too.
What's "stacked against NA"? EU's all-star team had a legitimate language issue that only they and TW/SEA had to deal with and a concession should be made to their performances at All-Stars based on this fact.
It's not anyone trying to disparage NA, it's a fucking fact based on the players that got picked for All-Stars. The other 3 regions were one-language regions that clearly did not have this problem and it's stupid to pretend that this did not affect the outcome.
What's "stacked against NA"? EU's all-star team had a legitimate language issue that only they and TW/SEA had to deal with and a concession should be made to their performances at All-Stars based on this fact.
It's not anyone trying to disparage NA, it's a fucking fact based on the players that got picked for All-Stars. The other 3 regions were one-language regions that clearly did not have this problem and it's stupid to pretend that this did not affect the outcome.
Well, of all things EU was "disadvantaged" in, language was pretty low on the list. Pretty sure Diamondprox said after all-stars that there was no communication issues. However, they did practice less than NA though, and had questionable voting from the fans lol.
What's "stacked against NA"? EU's all-star team had a legitimate language issue that only they and TW/SEA had to deal with and a concession should be made to their performances at All-Stars based on this fact.
It's not anyone trying to disparage NA, it's a fucking fact based on the players that got picked for All-Stars. The other 3 regions were one-language regions that clearly did not have this problem and it's stupid to pretend that this did not affect the outcome.
Well, of all things EU was "disadvantaged" in, language was pretty low on the list. Pretty sure Diamondprox said after all-stars that there was no communication issues. However, they did practice less than NA though, and had questionable voting from the fans lol.
Their all stars were fine. I mean, the voting would be different now, but it would be different for all regions too. I'd be willing to bet other regions would have more changes than the EU team. sOAZ, diamondprox, and yellowpete would likely stay and edward would only be replaced because he changed regions. Perhaps changing alex would make a significant impact seeing as how europe is heavily reliant on their mid laners.
NA, KR, and China would have the biggest changes if all stars would be held right now. Simply incorporating a few C9 players into NA would make them much stronger.
After the group stage at worlds, is there a loser's bracket or not? It seems rather unfortunate if a seeded team gets eliminated after one BO3, since that will be the only BO3 they play at worlds.
On September 09 2013 11:10 nikuniku wrote: Could anyone answer this question?
After the group stage at worlds, is there a loser's bracket or not? It seems rather unfortunate if a seeded team gets eliminated after one BO3, since that will be the only BO3 they play at worlds.
Welcome to RIOT's brilliant tournament planning. Build them up in the LCS over 6 months, have then lose in 2 games in the biggest tournament. Logical.
On September 09 2013 11:10 nikuniku wrote: Could anyone answer this question?
After the group stage at worlds, is there a loser's bracket or not? It seems rather unfortunate if a seeded team gets eliminated after one BO3, since that will be the only BO3 they play at worlds.
There is no loser bracket so yeah, a seeded team can be out after a single set in the quarters.
The logic behind having double round robin in groups and then having the seeded teams potentially play only 2 games is...baffling, to say the least. At the very least everything from quarterfinals on should have been BO5.
Well on the bright side, with this group stage format, you get to see faker crush Regi twice =)
More likely though, is that they'll try to 2v1 faker, because 1v1 for faker is no contest for a lot of the teams, and 2v2 isn't an inviting prospect either.
On September 09 2013 18:44 Amui wrote: Well on the bright side, with this group stage format, you get to see faker crush Regi twice =)
More likely though, is that they'll try to 2v1 faker, because 1v1 for faker is no contest for a lot of the teams, and 2v2 isn't an inviting prospect either.
Did OMG's support player actually fail to get a visa or are they just trying out their double support strategy. I'm getting contradicting answers on reddit.
On September 09 2013 09:19 overt wrote: I feel like C9 will really struggle though against a team like Royal Club or SKT. Those teams know that C9's glaring weakness is their lane phase and Meteos' lack of ganks. Teams that have crazy good lane players like Faker, Piglet, PoohManDu or a team like Royal which loves early game aggression will eat C9 alive during early game. Even if C9 is better than them at team work or cohesion (I don't think they are) it may not matter if SKT or MVPO or Royal or OMG gets a huge advantage in the first ten minutes or so.
I agree with this so much. Several NA teams absolutely shit on C9 during lane phase, but their mid/late games are so terrible that C9 just came back (I'm looking at you, Vulcun). The more polished teams are not going to give up huge leads, and certainly not throw at dragon against Rumble/Kennen/Zac/Ashe/Zyra type teams. They'll just shove every lane and not give C9 a chance to even take dragon, or split push them to death. Korean teams moved away from 5v5 team comps for a reason, and they are certainly well versed in facing them.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4z9vxz6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vursH.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oBJH4Bs.png)
lolesports | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
Twitch.tv | Fengyuzhibo | Tencent![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xo97b.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O03kC30.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BUBCHaR.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FEjNzz6.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M7xnFnZ.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DbyJr2G.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jgmCp.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/4l4XG/67bf56b26e.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/4l5iF/52c32e7aef.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01767/popeHat_1767116b.jpg)
