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On July 12 2013 10:59 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 10:58 wei2coolman wrote:On July 12 2013 10:57 ImmortalTofu wrote:On July 12 2013 10:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I hate it when people talk about comebacks like this one because it's basically completely attributable to Zuna being shit, but now C9 just gets stupid hype for the OMG COMEBACK lol Yeah, Zuna, this split especially has just been so ridiculously underwhelming. He has never been good; he's just gotten farm. He's supposed to be mancloud's backup plan, cuz mancloud champs usually don't scale as hard into lategame. mancloud played shit and positioned poorly in that game as well Are you surprised? NA TFs. lol. I still don't know how Vulcun managed to throw that...
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On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4.
Considering almost all the teams are so scared when they are behind, I would have said no other NA team would have won that. C9 wasn't scared, they were patient. Zuna didn't especially played worse than usual, it's just usually he doesn't have the opportunity to show us how bad he is.
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That Dig reaction to getting Baron haha.
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On July 12 2013 10:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I hate it when people talk about comebacks like this one because it's basically completely attributable to Zuna being shit, but now C9 just gets stupid hype for the OMG COMEBACK lol
hype hype hype!
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On July 12 2013 11:04 Lysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. Considering almost all the teams are so scared when they are behind, I would have said no other NA team would have won that. C9 wasn't scared, they were patient. Zuna didn't especially played worse than usual, it's just usually he doesn't have the opportunity to show us how bad he is. CLG could have won that in that position; Curse as well (Look at Spring split vs GGU game); TSM as well. A lot of the veteran teams have and could do it.
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Zuna somehow let Ashe take 3 shots at him and a Volley at the last baron fight, rocket jumped backwards, flashed out of the pit, all after doing like 5 autos.
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It's amazing how good C9 and CLG's mindset is despite being behind. It really shows from these endurance battles! C9 is almost always behind in kills early and yet they always win 
C9 fighting!
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On July 12 2013 11:04 Lysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. Considering almost all the teams are so scared when they are behind, I would have said no other NA team would have won that. C9 wasn't scared, they were patient. Zuna didn't especially played worse than usual, it's just usually he doesn't have the opportunity to show us how bad he is.
I mean, C9 just played their normal game. They didn't do anything impressive from their deficit situation, didn't make any brilliant calls or picks or mechanical executions, they just played a normal game and Zuna just happened to suicide every time.
C9 didn't play -bad- after the atrocious early game, but they didn't play well either. They played on par for the latter half and terribly for the first half, which averages out to playing poorly overall.
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On July 12 2013 11:05 ReketSomething wrote:It's amazing how good C9 and CLG's mindset is despite being behind. It really shows from these endurance battles! C9 is almost always behind in kills early and yet they always win  C9 fighting!
I've never heard someone talk about clg like that before. They notorious for getting mad at each other and raging mid game.
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On July 12 2013 11:07 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:05 ReketSomething wrote:It's amazing how good C9 and CLG's mindset is despite being behind. It really shows from these endurance battles! C9 is almost always behind in kills early and yet they always win  C9 fighting! I've never heard someone talk about clg like that before. They notorious for getting mad at each other and raging mid game. Talkin bout post-hotshotgg clg; not st.v/chauster/hsgg/dlift clg.
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On July 12 2013 11:06 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:04 Lysteria wrote:On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. Considering almost all the teams are so scared when they are behind, I would have said no other NA team would have won that. C9 wasn't scared, they were patient. Zuna didn't especially played worse than usual, it's just usually he doesn't have the opportunity to show us how bad he is. I mean, C9 just played their normal game. They didn't do anything impressive from their deficit situation, didn't make any brilliant calls or picks or mechanical executions, they just played a normal game and Zuna just happened to suicide every time. C9 didn't play -bad- after the atrocious early game, but they didn't play well either. They played on par for the latter half and terribly for the first half, which averages out to playing poorly overall.
Considering the split so far, that is far better than anything the rest of NA has to offer. So I doubt any other NA team would have come back from that position.
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Eh. It's just disappointing to me how little effect adc has these days... Solo laners now have the tankiness and burst to render them irrelevant, and they're basically only used for objectives unless they get SUPER SUPER far ahead. Even then they're too susceptible to instagibs, seen esp with QT and Patoy. Honestly, I feel that support has more fight impact these days than adc, like with Godwater... I think its just because with more upfront damage people were much more susceptible to blow-ups and dives weren't as viable...
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On July 12 2013 11:02 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 12 2013 10:57 petered wrote:On July 12 2013 10:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I hate it when people talk about comebacks like this one because it's basically completely attributable to Zuna being shit, but now C9 just gets stupid hype for the OMG COMEBACK lol You don't think they played well at all? Most NA teams wouldn't have been able to come back when down 1-11 and 10k gold. Yes vulcan threw, but give them some credit for playing it out well. Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. That's a very blunt statement. Sometimes you just gotta give a team credit. Zuna messed up. Cloud 9 also played well to get to the position where they were. It is not easy to win from their position, no matter the team. Agreed. You are highly overestimating NA teams in knowing what they are "supposed" to do in a game. Most/All NA teams can hardly control lanes properly or know how to tower dive, and most obviously even know when to do (or not to do) Baron. C9 had to do sooooo many things right that game for that comeback to happen. Sure, you could just say turtle up and farm and pick off anyone you can, but NA teams have shown us time and time again that they are just not capable of doing something like that. C9 also played the teamfights very well, taking out key targets and having much better positioning than most/all other NA teams. I guarantee that even if Zuna did those positioning errors vs other teams, none of them (except maybe 1 or 2 teams on a good day) would have the level of execution to pull what was necessary. And this is coming from non-C9 fan. Vulcun/Zuna threw but C9 do deserve some credit for doing what they "should" do, which most NA teams currently aren't able to.
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On July 12 2013 11:09 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:02 RagequitBM wrote:On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 12 2013 10:57 petered wrote:On July 12 2013 10:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I hate it when people talk about comebacks like this one because it's basically completely attributable to Zuna being shit, but now C9 just gets stupid hype for the OMG COMEBACK lol You don't think they played well at all? Most NA teams wouldn't have been able to come back when down 1-11 and 10k gold. Yes vulcan threw, but give them some credit for playing it out well. Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. That's a very blunt statement. Sometimes you just gotta give a team credit. Zuna messed up. Cloud 9 also played well to get to the position where they were. It is not easy to win from their position, no matter the team. Agreed. You are highly overestimating NA teams in knowing what they are "supposed" to do in a game. Most/All NA teams can hardly control lanes properly or know how to tower dive, and most obviously even know when to do (or not to do) Baron. C9 had to do sooooo many things right that game for that comeback to happen. Sure, you could just say turtle up and farm and pick off anyone you can, but NA teams have shown us time and time again that they are just not capable of doing something like that. C9 also played the teamfights very well, taking out key targets and having much better positioning than most/all other NA teams. I guarantee that even if Zuna did those positioning errors vs other teams, none of them (except maybe 1 or 2 teams on a good day) would have the level of execution to pull what was necessary. And this is coming from non-C9 fan. Vulcun/Zuna threw but C9 do deserve some credit for doing what they "should" do, which most NA teams currently aren't able to. I think a more relevant question was; would any other team be able to throw as hard as Vulcun; if they were in the same position? VES is the only team I would safely say that would throw it that hard.
If it was any other team; (except VES), they would've finished off C9.
Even Dig couldn't throw it that badly; especially since Qtpie is a god.
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On July 12 2013 11:09 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:02 RagequitBM wrote:On July 12 2013 10:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On July 12 2013 10:57 petered wrote:On July 12 2013 10:54 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I hate it when people talk about comebacks like this one because it's basically completely attributable to Zuna being shit, but now C9 just gets stupid hype for the OMG COMEBACK lol You don't think they played well at all? Most NA teams wouldn't have been able to come back when down 1-11 and 10k gold. Yes vulcan threw, but give them some credit for playing it out well. Not really, no, they didn't play that well. Any NA team would've won that vs Zuna lol. It's not hard to win with a 10k gold deficit when it's 5v4. That's a very blunt statement. Sometimes you just gotta give a team credit. Zuna messed up. Cloud 9 also played well to get to the position where they were. It is not easy to win from their position, no matter the team. Agreed. You are highly overestimating NA teams in knowing what they are "supposed" to do in a game. Most/All NA teams can hardly control lanes properly or know how to tower dive, and most obviously even know when to do (or not to do) Baron. C9 had to do sooooo many things right that game for that comeback to happen. Sure, you could just say turtle up and farm and pick off anyone you can, but NA teams have shown us time and time again that they are just not capable of doing something like that. C9 also played the teamfights very well, taking out key targets and having much better positioning than most/all other NA teams. I guarantee that even if Zuna did those positioning errors vs other teams, none of them (except maybe 1 or 2 teams on a good day) would have the level of execution to pull what was necessary. And this is coming from non-C9 fan. Vulcun/Zuna threw but C9 do deserve some credit for doing what they "should" do, which most NA teams currently aren't able to.
That's basically NA resigning themselves to low standards then, because if you're lauding a team to the skies for doing something that's merely competent/mediocre in the Asian scene, there's no wonder why NA will continue to be the worst region and will get demolished in worlds.
If you're fine with that, that's fine, but considering how often people seem to express a desire for NA to be competitive, it's kind of hypocritical to praise teams for doing very average things, eh?
Also your post basically boils down to "other teams are bad, C9 is slightly less bad, therefore they're good."
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On July 12 2013 11:05 wei2coolman wrote: CLG could have won that in that position; Curse as well (Look at Spring split vs GGU game); TSM as well. A lot of the veteran teams have and could do it.
CLG with Chauster on a good day, why not. TSM would have died so badly 10 min before even have the opportunity of jumping on Zuna. And I don't want to talk about Curse, my heart is still bleeding. 
Those teams could have won the fights where Zuna was caught pants down, sure, but I would have said it's unlikely they would have lived long enough to grab those opportunities to begin with. That patience and defence from Cloud 9 for what felt like an eternity was really good.
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On July 12 2013 11:09 ImmortalTofu wrote: Eh. It's just disappointing to me how little effect adc has these days... Solo laners now have the tankiness and burst to render them irrelevant, and they're basically only used for objectives unless they get SUPER SUPER far ahead. Even then they're too susceptible to instagibs, seen esp with QT and Patoy. Honestly, I feel that support has more fight impact these days than adc, like with Godwater... I think its just because with more upfront damage people were much more susceptible to blow-ups and dives weren't as viable... If this was a response to that last game; It had less to do with weak S3 adc's and far more with Zuna's throwing arm.
On July 12 2013 11:12 Lysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:05 wei2coolman wrote: CLG could have won that in that position; Curse as well (Look at Spring split vs GGU game); TSM as well. A lot of the veteran teams have and could do it. CLG with Chauster on a good day, why not. TSM would have died so badly 10 min before even have the opportunity of jumping on Zuna. And I don't want to talk about Curse, my heart is still bleeding.  Those teams could have won the fights where Zuna was caught pants down, sure, but I would have said it's unlikely they would have lived long enough to grab those opportunities to begin with. That patience and defence from Cloud 9 for what felt like an eternity was really good. I'm not saying; that the teams would've necessarily won the game against vulcun; but they definitely have the mindset to deal with being atrociously behind, and clawing back victories.
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Yeah I consider that more Vulcan sitting back on their advantage for no reason, more then C9 making things happen. With 2 globals Vulcan had tons of plays they could have made to force turrets/baron to happen. Instead they sat in lanes and farmed their way to a loss.
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Also going to 7/5 or w/e as a 7/0 jungler is kinda pathetic lol.He was even lower level than meteos for most of the game.That really shouldn't happen lol.
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On July 12 2013 11:16 nafta wrote: Also going to 7/5 or w/e as a 7/0 jungler is kinda pathetic lol.He was even lower level than meteos for most of the game.That really shouldn't happen lol. The early 3-0; I don't know why he still went for Spirit of the Elder Lizard...
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