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On November 04 2012 12:34 G0dly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 12:30 overt wrote:On November 04 2012 12:28 Sufficiency wrote:On November 04 2012 12:26 AsnSensation wrote:
Before blaming loco they should look at the performance of a certain player that played a ninjan3 games in a row this series, oh wait they failed to see the real problem of their for over a year now. Loco went explorer mode yeah and it shouldnt happen from a player of his calibre but i stopped countng how many times hotshot got caught by froggen or other eu members
Leave loco alone uselessShotGg Don't forget the missed (often point-blank) taunts and the weirdest Rs, including the last one which he fought against Maokai and Ezreal and don't even know which of their abilities can stop his R channel. Not to defend him but I'm pretty sure his plan was for his team to engage on EU since it was a 4v3 in mid lane. They either weren't on the same page or Chauster missed his bandage toss or something. By the time Hotshot realized his team wasn't going to or couldn't engage he tried to ult but it was too late. Still a stupid call but I don't think it was a case of him not knowing what can stop his ult lol. We don't exactly know what went on in CLG teamspeak during that moment but to assume that Hotshot doesn't know which spells can cancel his ult when any 1500 elo Shen player would know is presumptuous. I wish we could have a feature where we can listen in on the teamspeak during the game. I know MLG used to do it in Halo, and it would probably be a lot more entertaining than what we have now.
I am not sure what kind of play he was trying to make, but there was no reason whatsoever to not ult immediately after getting Q'ed by Maokai. Staying there would only make him take free damage (which he did). When you managed to bait out two players from the enemy team (one of the being the ADC with Trinity Force, the other one is Maokai), you don't stick around and try to fight them, you run by pressing R. There is no way of getting out otherwise.
I think HSGG was trying to be smart and stalling to make a play of some sort, but I really don't think it was the right call at all. Overall he either didn't feel the danger of the situation he was in, or he panicked and played randomly. Either way it goes to show his level of competitiveness in this game.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2012 12:34 G0dly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 12:30 overt wrote:On November 04 2012 12:28 Sufficiency wrote:On November 04 2012 12:26 AsnSensation wrote:
Before blaming loco they should look at the performance of a certain player that played a ninjan3 games in a row this series, oh wait they failed to see the real problem of their for over a year now. Loco went explorer mode yeah and it shouldnt happen from a player of his calibre but i stopped countng how many times hotshot got caught by froggen or other eu members
Leave loco alone uselessShotGg Don't forget the missed (often point-blank) taunts and the weirdest Rs, including the last one which he fought against Maokai and Ezreal and don't even know which of their abilities can stop his R channel. Not to defend him but I'm pretty sure his plan was for his team to engage on EU since it was a 4v3 in mid lane. They either weren't on the same page or Chauster missed his bandage toss or something. By the time Hotshot realized his team wasn't going to or couldn't engage he tried to ult but it was too late. Still a stupid call but I don't think it was a case of him not knowing what can stop his ult lol. We don't exactly know what went on in CLG teamspeak during that moment but to assume that Hotshot doesn't know which spells can cancel his ult when any 1500 elo Shen player would know is presumptuous. I wish we could have a feature where we can listen in on the teamspeak during the game. I know MLG used to do it in Halo, and it would probably be a lot more entertaining than what we have now.
In either case, the other members of CLG are not so devoid of blame (and Hotshot especially not) that CLG can use Loco as a scapegoat.
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On November 04 2012 12:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 12:34 G0dly wrote:On November 04 2012 12:30 overt wrote:On November 04 2012 12:28 Sufficiency wrote:On November 04 2012 12:26 AsnSensation wrote:
Before blaming loco they should look at the performance of a certain player that played a ninjan3 games in a row this series, oh wait they failed to see the real problem of their for over a year now. Loco went explorer mode yeah and it shouldnt happen from a player of his calibre but i stopped countng how many times hotshot got caught by froggen or other eu members
Leave loco alone uselessShotGg Don't forget the missed (often point-blank) taunts and the weirdest Rs, including the last one which he fought against Maokai and Ezreal and don't even know which of their abilities can stop his R channel. Not to defend him but I'm pretty sure his plan was for his team to engage on EU since it was a 4v3 in mid lane. They either weren't on the same page or Chauster missed his bandage toss or something. By the time Hotshot realized his team wasn't going to or couldn't engage he tried to ult but it was too late. Still a stupid call but I don't think it was a case of him not knowing what can stop his ult lol. We don't exactly know what went on in CLG teamspeak during that moment but to assume that Hotshot doesn't know which spells can cancel his ult when any 1500 elo Shen player would know is presumptuous. I wish we could have a feature where we can listen in on the teamspeak during the game. I know MLG used to do it in Halo, and it would probably be a lot more entertaining than what we have now. In either case, the other members of CLG are not so devoid of blame (and Hotshot especially not) that CLG can use Loco as a scapegoat.
But loco's the new guy. Have to blame him.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
On November 04 2012 12:45 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 12:42 Slusher wrote:
The Problem with Hotshot's Shen is he allows himself to be initiated on every time, especially vs an AP like ahri, that just free cd time if you let her poke you with a Q W before she has to commit. The time when Froggen 1v1'd him bot right after Hotshot finished FoN this is exactly what happened, by the time Hotshot decided to commit to the fight Froggen had already chunked him for half and he was waiting on getting his shit off cd. In that situation you need to be like "silly bitch, I just finished a FoN" and just go in the moment she appears, force her to back down or die. The biggest problem was his miss-use of his ult. It creates a huge opening for the enemy, when it goes to waste.
Shen did no damage that entire game, sure if he had wits or ionic spark then its not too difficult to 1v1 ahri, but he tried to go full tank and failed. The problem with shen is, after the initial taunt you can pretty much completely get ignored because it is impossible to land a 2nd one quickly because of the energy costs.
At best he could have taunted ahri and hit her a couple of times if he used randuins but then ahri can kite him all day. But you are right, the ults were god awful, they never actually hard engaged with the shield on....
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On November 04 2012 12:51 fishinguy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 12:45 Sponkz wrote:On November 04 2012 12:42 Slusher wrote:
The Problem with Hotshot's Shen is he allows himself to be initiated on every time, especially vs an AP like ahri, that just free cd time if you let her poke you with a Q W before she has to commit. The time when Froggen 1v1'd him bot right after Hotshot finished FoN this is exactly what happened, by the time Hotshot decided to commit to the fight Froggen had already chunked him for half and he was waiting on getting his shit off cd. In that situation you need to be like "silly bitch, I just finished a FoN" and just go in the moment she appears, force her to back down or die. The biggest problem was his miss-use of his ult. It creates a huge opening for the enemy, when it goes to waste. Shen did no damage that entire game, sure if you had wits or ionic spark then its not too difficult to 1v1 ahri, but he tried to go full tank and failed. The problem with shen is, after the initial taunt you can pretty much completely get ignored because it is impossible to land a 2nd one quickly because of the energy costs. At best he could have taunted ahri and hit her a couple of times if he used randuins but then ahri can kite him all day...
I think Wit's end might be a bit better but Ahri can still kite Shen. I think Shen needed a FM or something like that.
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hotshot kept trying to use his ult to escape even when it was obviously futile. if he had saved his first ult from when he got ganked when he first hit 6, they might have been able to take dragon or something.
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People are overdoing it with the CLG bashing again. Yeah they lost series to CLG.eu and to Azubu frost. So what, these were generally regarded to be stronger anyway. They still get 4th place and are the best NA team this tournament. Sounds like a succes to me. Especially given the fact that they have a new lineup with 3 people playing completely different roles than before. I honestly expected them to do much worse.
In contrast to them some other NA teams really failed.
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On November 04 2012 12:57 Redox wrote:
People are overdoing it with the CLG bashing again. Yeah they lost series to CLG.eu and to Azubu frost. So what, these were generally regarded to be stronger anyway. They still get 4th place and are the best NA team this tournament. Sounds like a succes to me. Especially given the fact that they have a new lineup with 3 people playing completely different roles than before. I honestly expected them to do much worse.
In contrast to them some other NA teams really failed.
Still it's kinda sad that "the best NA team this tournament" has a top-laner who plays a champion that requires optimal communication, something i think clg.na lacks alot . I'd give more credit to dig, they really showed some improvements despite going 2-0 to blaze.
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What's funny is that most likely CLGna will take the word of the people who have no clue about anything and blame loco for the loss just cause he's the new guy + the support player lol.
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Not really sure how being the best NA team this tournament is a success. Want nothing more than good NA teams, but they're just terrible. And every tournament you can see the gap getting bigger.
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Anyway, I watched nearly all the games today and yesterday, and it feels to me that CLGNA and Dignitas just derps way too much. There are often times which I could tell (even though a terrible player myself) "he grossly misplayed that", be it HSGG's point-blank taunt and awkward R's (esp. the Shen vs Ezreal + Maokai scenario I mentioned), or IWD/crumbz initiating when no one's around.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that they don't know what they did wrong; I am 100% certain that they do know it when they derp. The problem, I feel, is that they didn't practice enough to be able to perform these tasks perfectly on stage. It's like the Olympic gymnastics competition: any competitor will drill the same thing hundreds if not thousands of time to make sure it's down to the bones, even though it takes very little to be able to perform it once off-stage. Basically, the NA teams lack systematic practice.
I think TSM actually did pretty well in the sense that I don't think they made any gross mistakes - even though they got systematically outplayed.
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Are we gonna have any vods of the TSM vs CLG.eu games? I kind of want to see Froggen's lee sin x)
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On November 04 2012 13:05 Sufficiency wrote:
Anyway, I watched nearly all the games today and yesterday, and it feels to me that CLGNA and Dignitas just derps way too much.
And what would fix this is hardcore practicing. Dignitas got too much real life stuff and CLGna too stupid/proud though.
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On November 04 2012 12:57 Redox wrote:
In contrast to them some other NA teams really failed.
Looks like Dig used up all of their fuel for 3 months during a single serie against Blaze. T_T
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On November 04 2012 13:07 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:05 Sufficiency wrote:
Anyway, I watched nearly all the games today and yesterday, and it feels to me that CLGNA and Dignitas just derps way too much. And what would fix this is hardcore practicing. Dignitas got too much real life stuff and CLGna too stupid/proud though.
Everyone's on a break after WC, no one cares for the small prize pool at MLG and any hardcore practicing is not very useful with the incoming Season 3 changes.
There's like no motivation for these NA teams except to do bare minimum and cruise by. Players are known to get a bit crazy during these weekends as well, partying and getting no sleep. That's probably why they went to MLG in the first place.
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On November 04 2012 13:10 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 13:07 overt wrote:On November 04 2012 13:05 Sufficiency wrote:
Anyway, I watched nearly all the games today and yesterday, and it feels to me that CLGNA and Dignitas just derps way too much. And what would fix this is hardcore practicing. Dignitas got too much real life stuff and CLGna too stupid/proud though. Everyone's on a break after WC, no one cares for the small prize pool at MLG and any hardcore practicing is not very useful with the incoming Season 3 changes. There's like no motivation for these NA teams except to do bare minimum and cruise by. Players are known to get a bit crazy during these weekends as well, partying and getting no sleep. That's probably why they went to MLG in the first place.
The NA teams are better off playing ARAM then go home and stream at this point, lol.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2012 13:10 StUfF wrote:
Everyone's on a break after WC, no one cares for the small prize pool at MLG and any hardcore practicing is not very useful with the incoming Season 3 changes.
So let me get this straight:
They don't try new things and generally improve during the season because they need to stick to reliable stuff to win events.
They don't try new things and generally improve during the off-season because they have no motivation at small events.
Seems like grade-A bullshit/procrastination to me.
The whole concept of cramming all your practice before an event rather than treating progaming as a regular full-year-round job is why NA teams suck.
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And, ironically before loco blame piles on, he's the only person on CLG who's suggested treating it like a full time job.
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Streaming is their full time job, tournaments are just advertising.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On November 04 2012 13:06 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Are we gonna have any vods of the TSM vs CLG.eu games? I kind of want to see Froggen's lee sin x)
Rebroadcast is on right now, although it's Dignitas vs Blaze atm.
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EPT
