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Keep the rage to a minimum. This includes wait times between games, music, and balance.
Fair warning to all. |
On October 11 2012 17:31 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 17:28 Tal wrote:On October 11 2012 17:15 -Zoda- wrote:
Do China actually support TPA ? China is very well known for being a major country in DotA's competition, but is Taiwan ? And you know, Beijin and Taipei aren't particularly friendly... One of the Chinese casters was literally crying with joy/pride that TPA beat Moscow 5  Except the commentary team for TPA vs. M5 was the Garena Taiwan commentators, lol. If it was Vincent Lee, it makes a lot of sense because he is very close with the TPA team. That said, the Chinese commentators have been referring to TPA as a "Chinese" team (e.g. saying 3 Chinese teams in top 8).
Ahh really? I'm not familiar with whose who lol. But what you say is true - in China TPA are seen as a Chinese team.
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On October 11 2012 17:33 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 17:32 1ntrigue wrote:On October 11 2012 17:02 Kergy wrote:On October 11 2012 16:50 bRiz wrote:
I enjoyed frost winning. Hopefully now the NA and EU scenes perish, leaving only glorious asia to compete. That's what we all want by rooting on these asian teams right? The death of pro league in NA and EU. Not EU because they're pretty good. Agree with you about NA though EU only has two strong teams and the rest do not show any particular potential. If you're talking about M5 and CLG.eu hanging around the top teams of the world, I'd agree with you but not the rest of EU. On October 11 2012 17:08 overt wrote:On October 11 2012 17:04 1ntrigue wrote:
I think Frost will take the finals 3:0 or 3:1. They are too honed and strong in all areas for TPA to handle. TPA, even if they get a jungle advantage and even lanes (pretty much the best they can expect), cannot team fight themselves to victory. Maybe they will win with a cheese here or there or a game where they catch Frost slacking, but I can't see TPA doing better than a close but clear 1:3 loss. zzz, CLGeu goes 1-2 and 2-3 against Frost both times they've played them. Suggesting they're pretty even. CLGeu loses to M5 all but once. TPA convincingly beats M5 the first time they've ever played. Not saying that means TPA is favored in the finals or anything but Frost vs TPA should be really close. TPA has done something Frost hasn't, beaten the team that the vast majority of LoL fans considered the unstoppable best team in the world. If you look at TPA's record against Korean opposition, I'd say their chances are grim. However, I thought their chances were pretty grim vs M5 and they managed to win. Still, the TPA vs M5 series were extremely close, while the Frost vs CLG.eu was a stomp despite Frost losing game 1. I'll be happy to be proved wrong though. On October 11 2012 17:15 -Zoda- wrote:
Do China actually support TPA ? China is very well known for being a major country in DotA's competition, but is Taiwan ? And you know, Beijin and Taipei aren't particularly friendly... Chinese fans definitely support TPA. Chinese people consider Taiwan to be part of China anyway, and even if they didn't, they'd still see TPA as their brothers. The connection between China and Taiwan is much closer than USA/Canada or Australia/NZ and transcends politics. lol an entire political faction in Taiwan would disagree with you Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to start any China-Taiwan hate and I think it's awesome Chinese fans support TPA from both sides of the Taiwan strait. It just bothers me immensely when people say shit and they don't understand the full facts.
To be fair, the politic tension is more with the government and the older age groups (50+). Not sure how many 50 year old Chinese or Taiwanese are watching LoL tournaments.
Taiwanese idols, actors and athletes are quite popular in China. Again, the younger generation do not really care for the political baggage/issues.
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On October 11 2012 17:22 BlackPaladin wrote:
Reddit is such a cespool.... o.e
To be fair a lot of the comments in the thread about Frost beating CLGeu are positive about Frost and most people seem to be willing to move on from the cheating stuff. reddit goers just need a few days to realize they don't actually care.
Also, I think citing TPA's recent record against Koreans is kind of silly. They just beat one of the best Korean teams lol.
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does anyone have a recap of the matches played this night ? i'm quite sure i'm not the only euro who wasnt able to watch and would like to know what happened  thanks
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On October 11 2012 17:33 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 17:32 1ntrigue wrote:On October 11 2012 17:02 Kergy wrote:On October 11 2012 16:50 bRiz wrote:
I enjoyed frost winning. Hopefully now the NA and EU scenes perish, leaving only glorious asia to compete. That's what we all want by rooting on these asian teams right? The death of pro league in NA and EU. Not EU because they're pretty good. Agree with you about NA though EU only has two strong teams and the rest do not show any particular potential. If you're talking about M5 and CLG.eu hanging around the top teams of the world, I'd agree with you but not the rest of EU. On October 11 2012 17:08 overt wrote:On October 11 2012 17:04 1ntrigue wrote:
I think Frost will take the finals 3:0 or 3:1. They are too honed and strong in all areas for TPA to handle. TPA, even if they get a jungle advantage and even lanes (pretty much the best they can expect), cannot team fight themselves to victory. Maybe they will win with a cheese here or there or a game where they catch Frost slacking, but I can't see TPA doing better than a close but clear 1:3 loss. zzz, CLGeu goes 1-2 and 2-3 against Frost both times they've played them. Suggesting they're pretty even. CLGeu loses to M5 all but once. TPA convincingly beats M5 the first time they've ever played. Not saying that means TPA is favored in the finals or anything but Frost vs TPA should be really close. TPA has done something Frost hasn't, beaten the team that the vast majority of LoL fans considered the unstoppable best team in the world. If you look at TPA's record against Korean opposition, I'd say their chances are grim. However, I thought their chances were pretty grim vs M5 and they managed to win. Still, the TPA vs M5 series were extremely close, while the Frost vs CLG.eu was a stomp despite Frost losing game 1. I'll be happy to be proved wrong though. On October 11 2012 17:15 -Zoda- wrote:
Do China actually support TPA ? China is very well known for being a major country in DotA's competition, but is Taiwan ? And you know, Beijin and Taipei aren't particularly friendly... Chinese fans definitely support TPA. Chinese people consider Taiwan to be part of China anyway, and even if they didn't, they'd still see TPA as their brothers. The connection between China and Taiwan is much closer than USA/Canada or Australia/NZ and transcends politics. lol an entire political faction in Taiwan would disagree with you Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to start any China-Taiwan hate and I think it's awesome Chinese fans support TPA from both sides of the Taiwan strait. It just bothers me immensely when people say shit and they don't understand the full facts.
I should rephrase my sentence to: The connection between China and Taiwan is much closer than USA/Canada or Australia/NZ and transcends politics from the point of view of a Chinese person.
Chinese people see Taiwan as exiled family, despite what others may think. I only use this sentence to justify why Chinese fans support TPA against all other teams in the tournament except WE and iG.
Edit: Not to mention the common cultural heritage and the current popular culture overlap and mutual appreciation.
I didn't intend use this sentence politically, knowing how TL often responds.
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On October 11 2012 17:38 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 17:22 BlackPaladin wrote:
Reddit is such a cespool.... o.e To be fair a lot of the comments in the thread about Frost beating CLGeu are positive about Frost and most people seem to be willing to move on from the cheating stuff. reddit goers just need a few days to realize they don't actually care. Also, I think citing TPA's recent record against Koreans is kind of silly. They just beat one of the best Korean teams lol.
Nonetheless, I think TPA only has a small chance against Frost because of the factors I already mentioned. Frost is on a much higher level than Sword, which I rate below M5, CLG.eu and WE. You haven't given much reasoning behind your own confidence for a TPA victory other than them beating an underperforming M5 in a close 2-1 series.
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On October 11 2012 17:43 1ntrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 17:33 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 11 2012 17:32 1ntrigue wrote:On October 11 2012 17:02 Kergy wrote:On October 11 2012 16:50 bRiz wrote:
I enjoyed frost winning. Hopefully now the NA and EU scenes perish, leaving only glorious asia to compete. That's what we all want by rooting on these asian teams right? The death of pro league in NA and EU. Not EU because they're pretty good. Agree with you about NA though EU only has two strong teams and the rest do not show any particular potential. If you're talking about M5 and CLG.eu hanging around the top teams of the world, I'd agree with you but not the rest of EU. On October 11 2012 17:08 overt wrote:On October 11 2012 17:04 1ntrigue wrote:
I think Frost will take the finals 3:0 or 3:1. They are too honed and strong in all areas for TPA to handle. TPA, even if they get a jungle advantage and even lanes (pretty much the best they can expect), cannot team fight themselves to victory. Maybe they will win with a cheese here or there or a game where they catch Frost slacking, but I can't see TPA doing better than a close but clear 1:3 loss. zzz, CLGeu goes 1-2 and 2-3 against Frost both times they've played them. Suggesting they're pretty even. CLGeu loses to M5 all but once. TPA convincingly beats M5 the first time they've ever played. Not saying that means TPA is favored in the finals or anything but Frost vs TPA should be really close. TPA has done something Frost hasn't, beaten the team that the vast majority of LoL fans considered the unstoppable best team in the world. If you look at TPA's record against Korean opposition, I'd say their chances are grim. However, I thought their chances were pretty grim vs M5 and they managed to win. Still, the TPA vs M5 series were extremely close, while the Frost vs CLG.eu was a stomp despite Frost losing game 1. I'll be happy to be proved wrong though. On October 11 2012 17:15 -Zoda- wrote:
Do China actually support TPA ? China is very well known for being a major country in DotA's competition, but is Taiwan ? And you know, Beijin and Taipei aren't particularly friendly... Chinese fans definitely support TPA. Chinese people consider Taiwan to be part of China anyway, and even if they didn't, they'd still see TPA as their brothers. The connection between China and Taiwan is much closer than USA/Canada or Australia/NZ and transcends politics. lol an entire political faction in Taiwan would disagree with you Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to start any China-Taiwan hate and I think it's awesome Chinese fans support TPA from both sides of the Taiwan strait. It just bothers me immensely when people say shit and they don't understand the full facts. I should rephrase my sentence to: The connection between China and Taiwan is much closer than USA/Canada or Australia/NZ and transcends politics from the point of view of a Chinese person. Chinese people see Taiwan as exiled family, despite what others may think. I only use this sentence to justify why Chinese fans support TPA against all other teams in the tournament except WE and iG. Edit: Not to mention the common cultural heritage and the current popular culture overlap and mutual appreciation. I didn't intend use this sentence politically, knowing how TL often responds.
Thing is though, the perspective is very different from the Taiwanese side, depending on the political affiliation and maybe even family history. Some Taiwanese share a similar perspective with China. Others view it much more differently - they view Taiwan as independent and should be it's own completely independent country. This is heavily influenced by your political affiliation (Green v. Blue), which is also influenced by your family ties (whether your family moved to Taiwan with Chiang Kai Shek following the Chinese Civil War - ie. waishengren v. benshengren). Nevertheless, culturally and racially there's extreme amounts of overlap - any split is almost purely political.
That being said, I'll stop derailing this thread and instead profess my support for TPA and how the Korean gaming overlords are going down. Honestly, I think TPA has a stronger jungler and AD. I'm not sure who has the stronger top since Stanley is fucking beast but Shy has proven himself over and over this tourney.
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China - Taiwan political discussion, totally relevant to this thread.
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On October 11 2012 17:16 NeoIllusions wrote:
Quick, someone teach me how to Support Zyra.
Just stand in bushes or walk right up to ppl to root them since your root is absurdly fast and then qqqqq them for damage and use w for free wards, or when you are going to combo in for kills.
GG, lane won.
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one time I typed in simplified Chinese on tw server
they called me 大陸狗 zz
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United States37500 Posts
On October 11 2012 17:22 BlackPaladin wrote:
Reddit is such a cespool.... o.e
Welcome to TeamLiquid.
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United States37500 Posts
On October 11 2012 17:53 ChaoSbringer wrote:
China - Taiwan political discussion, totally relevant to this thread.
huehuehue
But seriously, please don't start. General statement to everyone.
Do not make our game political.
Thanks all~
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Errr sorry, I'm off-topic king.
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Fell asleep during the break before the M5 game  , just watched the vods, well, skipped through the games. M5 looked well off their game in that game 3, not the teamfights we're used to seeing from them, in terms of positioning and really committing to the fight balls deep. Was a bit disappointing. CLG v Frost was a great series though. Will definitely watch that again properly.
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So sad there is no EU team in the final, I will most likely not watch it. The wound is too fresh.
Also, vs Azubu frost, just ban skarner and vladimir please ?
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(Please forgive me) Being pretty familiar with the China-Taiwan topic, I'll throw my thoughts, even though I really think it's really a sensitive subject that should be avoided.
Anyways, both 1ntrigue and Ryuu314 are correct to some extent. Most people in (mainland) China do indeed see Taiwanese as being very close to them. Like 1ntrigue said, "exiled brothers". However, the perspective from the Taiwanese side is often very different.
While young Chinese people are trying to become "closer" to the Taiwanese people, the Taiwanese youth has been trying to distance themselves more and more from the Chinese. The Taiwanese identity has grown enormously over the last 15 years or so, and the younger generation (25 and under) have been more and more actively disassociating themselves from the Chinese.
Take note of the following:
1. Taiwanese players and broadcasters rarely talk about the Chinese audience, instead talk about the Taiwanese audience. They aren't even using the politically neutral term "hua ren" often, which refers to the Chinese ethnicity. Mainland Chinese will support teams like TPA because they consider them their "own", but the Taiwanese won't consider any Chinese team their own.
2. In the past, foreign students from Taiwan would join "Chinese" clubs. Now they disassociate themselves from "Chinese" clubs and join "Taiwanese" clubs instead. In the past, almost all Mandarin speakers were from Taiwan. Now that Mandarin speakers are mostly from China, many Taiwanese try to maintain a "friendly" but "distanced" relationship to them.
3. "Taiwan is not part of China" has been accepted in mainstream culture and education in Taiwan for the last 15 years or so. Last time I went to Beijing I had to explain to some Taiwanese families on the airplane why they had to fill in the side of the immigration/customs card for Chinese nationals, and not the side for foreigners. Many of the Taiwanese kids were questioning (loudly) why they were standing in the line for "Chinese" people.
4. All of this is occurring despite improved cross-straight relations. While most Taiwanese people view improved cross-straight relations as positive, the reasons might surprise you. Mainlanders unquestionably want better relations, in order to get "closer" to the Taiwanese and hopefully convince them to reunite. Taiwanese people, on the other hand, want to show the Mainlanders that they are different, and hopefully convince them that independence is acceptable. Of course, both sides want to make lots of money.
5. While the older generation of Taiwanese may have more legitimate "beef" with mainlanders (such as the actions of the KMT when they moved to Taiwan), they are also much more reserved and well-mannered. They also generally don't use the Internet.
Note that I personally DO NOT wish to see the Taiwanese youth disassociate themselves from being Chinese. However, I'm just stating what is very very evident among the Taiwanese youth these days.
Honestly, we should be grateful that the people in TL.net are civilized enough to carry out such a conversation -- b/c a lot of the true sentiments of the Taiwanese youth would be extremely shocking to Mainland Chinese.
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Just woke up after watching the picks & bans of M5 vs TPA G1. Now Riot homepage reads "Frost vs. TPA finals" and I am like 'wtf?'. Can't really believe that TPA defeated M5, I'm somewhat sad right now although I'm not really a M5 fan. It's just my feeling that 'Frost vs. M5' sounds much more epic than anything else and now we have asian vs. asian. So it begins...
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Why'd they pick morgana for the last game?
Doesn't seem like a reasonable pick for CLG.Lategame.
No M5, no CLG, more time for studying on sunday.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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i respect M5 a lot more after having seen them in action. their understanding of the game seems to be at a different place from the rest of the world.
however TPA's execution is crisp and lacking holes for M5 to exploit - ballz's map presence is as always superb as well, giving TPA the ability to farm up early with minimal interference when they feel weaker and push their advantages when they feel stronger.
i expect either TPA or frost to be able to beat the other, but personally think TPA will take it.
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EPT
