Seeing as that scenario is actually pretty likely I think it's safe to say that TSM's chances of getting to the finals will be determined by how their series against Curse goes.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

August 04 2012 04:06 GMT

#482

lots of things can stop raka/graves, lulu/graves is a different lane

nojitosunrise

United States6188 Posts

August 04 2012 04:07 GMT

#483

On August 04 2012 13:04 Ryuu314 wrote:
only way TSM gets to finals is if they 3-0 BLACK and Crs loses 0-3 to Blaze lol...

could be strategic if Blaze gives up a game to crs

Ente

Germany1795 Posts

August 04 2012 04:08 GMT

#484

Cait vastly outperforms graves lategame not even a competetion Oo Graves strength is midgame where his spells truly shine. Corki can stop graves from doing those crazy pushes aswell. And again it doesnt really matter losing those turrets if you pick carefully/plan on doing that you can basically turtle quite a long time in your base. And that was the time Azubu played actually pretty badly with overextension/crazy dives/stupid fights (those tf teleports where horrible)

to clarify a bit:
Soraka/graves is not the best lane there are quite a few things which can easily lane it and push against it (you just need to pressure soraka early and for early push soraka/graves is NOT a great lane (considering the enemy didnt pick vayne

))
hell even nunu/kogmaw should be able to win/lane against it might lose the tower but easily wins trades after a short amount of time. There is a reason towers are not pushed that hard in League then they are in Dota and people like letting towers alive every now and then
Graves lulu might be a bit different personally I didnt really play against this lane vs good teams/players

Blitzkrieg0

United States13132 Posts

August 04 2012 04:10 GMT

#485

On August 04 2012 13:07 nojitosunrise wrote:

Show nested quote +

could be strategic if Blaze gives up a game to crs

Somebody posted earlier that they were more afraid of curse than TSM.

overt

United States9006 Posts

August 04 2012 04:10 GMT

#486

Caitlyn doesn't outshine Graves late game. Graves is going to output way more single target dps and AoE burst than Caitlyn. Caitlyn's only redeeming factor late game is that she outranges a lot of champions but when you consider that Graves will be doing at least double Cait's dps in a fight it should be pretty obvious that Caitlyn is not going to be as impactful as Graves late game.

Chiharu Harukaze

12112 Posts

August 04 2012 04:14 GMT

#487

On August 04 2012 13:10 overt wrote:
Caitlyn doesn't outshine Graves late game. Graves is going to output way more single target dps and AoE burst than Caitlyn. Caitlyn's only redeeming factor late game is that she outranges a lot of champions but when you consider that Graves will be doing at least double Cait's dps in a fight it should be pretty obvious that Caitlyn is not going to be as impactful as Graves late game.

The thing is Cait has 650 range. You shoot everything before they get into range and crush them. Also, she has much higher base AS and AS gain which is incredibly significant when it comes to scaling from PD. The traps are also really really good in tower sieges. Combined with her range, it means it's so much easier to crack the base turrets. You saw how Graves had to keep getting really close to take potshots and that meant he got initiated on several times.

Ofc, in an AoE comp Graves is just so much better since it means even your AD Carry has crazy burst. Especially with things like Vlad Ult.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

August 04 2012 04:14 GMT

#488

On August 04 2012 13:08 Ente wrote:
Cait vastly outperforms graves lategame not even a competetion Oo Graves strength is midgame where his spells truly shine. Corki can stop graves from doing those crazy pushes aswell. And again it doesnt really matter losing those turrets if you pick carefully/plan on doing that you can basically turtle quite a long time in your base. And that was the time Azubu played actually pretty badly with overextension/crazy dives/stupid fights (those tf teleports where horrible)

to clarify a bit:
Soraka/graves is not the best lane there are quite a few things which can easily lane it and push against it (you just need to pressure soraka early and for early push soraka/graves is NOT a great lane (considering the enemy didnt pick vayne

you don't (intentionally) 2v2 with a tower push comp.

Slow Motion

United States6960 Posts

August 04 2012 04:15 GMT

#489

I feel like this guy is saying a lot of good stuff in the interview and a lot is getting lost in the translation.

Chickenlegs

Sweden451 Posts

August 04 2012 04:15 GMT

#490

This interview is taking a long time, is it a really complicated answer?

Craton

United States17236 Posts

August 04 2012 04:17 GMT

#491

Seems more like losing a lot in translation. Her English is pretty weak.

Chiharu Harukaze

12112 Posts

August 04 2012 04:17 GMT

#492

On August 04 2012 13:15 Chickenlegs wrote:
This interview is taking a long time, is it a really complicated answer?

Their translator doesn't seem to play LoL so she's saying things like "line counter" instead of "lane counter" due to the way Korean works.

Slusher

United States19143 Posts

August 04 2012 04:18 GMT

#493

pretty sure he was trying to explain the advantage of lane ambiguous in picks to her

Frost

Korea (South)1042 Posts

August 04 2012 04:18 GMT

#494

On August 04 2012 13:15 Slow Motion wrote:
I feel like this guy is saying a lot of good stuff in the interview and a lot is getting lost in the translation.

It's true. No offense to the translator, but honestly I feel like you guys missed a lot about what thoughts were going through Blaze's mind.

Frost

Korea (South)1042 Posts

August 04 2012 04:19 GMT

#495

On August 04 2012 13:17 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:

Show nested quote +

Their translator doesn't seem to play LoL so she's saying things like "line counter" instead of "lane counter" due to the way Korean works.

In Korea, they call it "line" to describe "lane" for league of legends. So she was correct there in saying line counter.

Frost

Korea (South)1042 Posts

August 04 2012 04:20 GMT

#496

double post woops

Ente

Germany1795 Posts

August 04 2012 04:21 GMT

#497

During graves E uptime his DPS is at 646 (I consider 200 armor for this whole calculation and AS boots IE PD LW + lvl 18 with AD red/quint) without e his dps is at 480
for caitlyn its 502 without passive due to having higher base stats with passive it would be 543 (which can be considered all the time cause she cant deactivate her passive

)
so the dps would be quite even with a slight advantage for graves but he gets outranged quite hard which is a huge deal lategame.

(The dps numbers might be a little bit off due to my spreadsheet being outdated a bit and no I wont post it here due to ppl fucking it up

I didnt even do it myself but I didnt find any errors before this and I dont expect it being wrong ppl really under rate caitlyn anyway...)

Edit: will go to bed its 6 am ) : dont expect to convince anyone anyway

People like keeping their opinions and are resistant to math ( so many people keep building LW on champs like kogmaw T_T instead of the second PD if they had the money for that)

Chiharu Harukaze

12112 Posts

August 04 2012 04:22 GMT

#498

That's what I meant haha. Sorry it wasn't clear. Posting in several subforums at the same time is hard~

Chaox reveals they actually did watch OGN VoDs but never realised what it was actually like to fight against Azubu.