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At any point of IEM Season 6 Championship, if you think of an interesting byline, please drop a sentence in the Pro Scene thread. At the end of the month, I'll catalogue the results of Hannover but also any interesting facts or events that happen over the course of the tournament. Thanks. Neo, 06.03.2012 |
On March 10 2012 12:43 Navi wrote:
for the baron fight i think clg should have placed the ward that HS would teleport to more close to baron so that there would be 2 tanky guys in M5's face with 2 steal threats, making focusing either a very unappealing option
But didnt m5 have oracles? They would just clear it any closer
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I'd like to see the Russians win again.
Anytime pro players are shaken up, it leads to changes. And despite the fact I only started playing/watching in September, it seems no one team has managed to hit a consistant "unbeatable" status, so I'd like to see that and watch people adapt to trying to beat that one team.
Due to loyalities though, if Dignitas runs Twitch, I'll immediately and without a hint of hypocrisy change my cheering for them.
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So how long is this till the final starts? I say M5 will take this 2-1. They look too strook atm. T
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On March 10 2012 13:32 Caphe wrote:
So how long is this till the final starts? I say M5 will take this 2-1. They look too strook atm. T
9hours 20 minutes
and it's gonna be late in any case.
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I'm so glad CLG got dismantled by M5 after saint's comments about TSM.
M5 really just looks super strong; in which case if Dignitas wins, I will have so much respect for them.
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I just watched today's games and read the threads, and I find it curious that so many people are so confident that M5 are going to destroy Dignitas. M5 is 7-0 in games this tournament and Dig is 6-1, with Dig's one game loss being a complete throw. It's true that Dig has had issues with throwing games, and they kinda tried it again in game 2 against aAa, but I think they'll buckle down for the finals and hold a lead if they get it.
I'm not arguing Dig should be the favorite, I'm just curious why so many think M5 are such a strong favorite. This feels like a 2-1 to me, one way of the other.
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On March 10 2012 12:55 Vequeth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 12:43 Navi wrote:
for the baron fight i think clg should have placed the ward that HS would teleport to more close to baron so that there would be 2 tanky guys in M5's face with 2 steal threats, making focusing either a very unappealing option But didnt m5 have oracles? They would just clear it any closer
Can't clear a ward being TP'd to.
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I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen.
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Holy balls I just watched the CLG v M5 series.....I can't believe how hard Hotshot threw that 2nd game.
The push strategy was working insanely well and then they went and blew it....I don't see how Dig can't beat the Russians....
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On March 10 2012 15:33 robertdinh wrote:
I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen.
I bolded that part 'cause it's mostly the only part that's true. He beat Darien in lane both games of M5. Was incredibly dominant in the aAa games as well.
Also, Hotshot is one of the few solo top players to run champions like Nidalee, Cho'gath, Swain, or Galio. None of those are gimmicky at all save tanky DPS Nid and he usually doesn't even run that. He ran things like Shen and Irelia this tournament but frankly Shen is completely bonkers right now so you can't fault him for running a champion that's incredibly strong and almost every solo top player can play Irelia because she fits in with so many team comps.
Other than his really bad play in the second half of the second M5 game or the weird swapping he did with Doublelift (which very well might not have been his call) in the first game he did well throughout the entire tournament. Honestly the weakest part of CLG right now is the inconsistency of Doublelift/Chauster. One game Double can do extremely well and the next game he just makes horrible decisions.
There's lots of things that CLG can work on and a lot of poor decisions they made in the M5 series but most of your comments about Hotshot are pretty far from the truth. He's still one of the most solid NA top laners.
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Watching the rerun, I have to say Hotshot gives good post match interviews, props on that for him.
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Saint's comments were reasonably accurate. M5 won game 1 because Doublelift kinda sucked it up and game 2 because of a game throw from CLG. Counterjungling was irrelevant in both games because Saint's jungle was down most of the time (since he was actually farming it) and CLG did a good job of keeping pressure vs Darien.
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On March 10 2012 16:02 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 15:33 robertdinh wrote:
I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen. I bolded that part 'cause it's mostly the only part that's true. He beat Darien in lane both games of M5. Was incredibly dominant in the aAa games as well. Also, Hotshot is one of the few solo top players to run champions like Nidalee, Cho'gath, Swain, or Galio. None of those are gimmicky at all save tanky DPS Nid and he usually doesn't even run that. He ran things like Shen and Irelia this tournament but frankly Shen is completely bonkers right now so you can't fault him for running a champion that's incredibly strong and almost every solo top player can play Irelia because she fits in with so many team comps. Other than his really bad play in the second half of the second M5 game or the weird swapping he did with Doublelift (which very well might not have been his call) in the first game he did well throughout the entire tournament. Honestly the weakest part of CLG right now is the inconsistency of Doublelift/Chauster. One game Double can do extremely well and the next game he just makes horrible decisions. There's lots of things that CLG can work on and a lot of poor decisions they made in the M5 series but most of your comments about Hotshot are pretty far from the truth. He's still one of the most solid NA top laners.
He didn't beat darien 1on1. LoL is not a 1on1 game, and the guys that made the big name teams early, often get carried.
All of the champs you listend are gimmicky, they are all super tanky with a large margin for error, they can survive and generally right click away from most situations.
Hotshots decision making is piss poor, there are countless times he has told his team he was ready to tp, then he would just leave them hanging to farm.
There are a lot of fanbois that glorify hotshot, because some games he will be allowed to farm on someone like chogath and then run around never being focused because he is so tanky and just spamming disables. In reality he is a conceptually flawed player, and if the game was a 1on1 game he would get shit on by far better players. But as it stands now he is in charge of one of the original and most popular LoL teams, so he would never get benched or cut. Reginald is in the same position, they both make awful decisions, are at times lacking severely in teamwork and attitude, but they will never get replaced even if they are the weakest link.
One thing that is important when following competitive LoL is understanding, who is actually skilled (because those will be the people of the future) and who is just good at abusing gimmicks.
I have nothing against people stacking the deck in their favor as much as possible, within the rules, so when CLG finds abusive synergies that is great research on their part, but a lot of how they play has a lot less finesse, but LoL is a poorly balanced game and is still in its competitive infancy so abusing balance issues is highly rewarding.
If you look at teams like World Elite and M5 though, you can see that they play with a lot more finesse, the things they try to pull off as a team take much more skill, but often times they will do stuff that takes way more effort, with small payoffs, but if you can consistently do that the payoffs will add up and help give you a great chance of winning.
Hotshot is a player that can't play from behind at all, he isn't resilient to defeat, great top laners can often come back or at least minimize the damage as best as possible.
Put hotshot on a non tanky champ and he often gets decimated asap for his poor positioning and terrible decision making in team fights.
I mean that last game vs m5 showed how unaware he is capable of being.
First he ports up top to a wave right outside the enemy base as his team shops, not factoring the fact that the enemy team still had all their ults up and he was overextended on his own.
Second his team is split and m5 is between them and he doesnt pay attention and gets caught by himself and dies. Ultimately costing his team a baron.
Third he ports late to a teamfight at baron and m5 gets yet another baron by that time.
Hotshot can only learn to make good decisions through habit, not because he has an intuitive understanding of the game and can adapt quickly and efficiently (which he cant)
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The new "split push" tendency of pro teams is going to make 1100 - 1700 solo queue a fucking nightmare XD
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On March 10 2012 18:13 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:02 overt wrote:On March 10 2012 15:33 robertdinh wrote:
I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen. I bolded that part 'cause it's mostly the only part that's true. He beat Darien in lane both games of M5. Was incredibly dominant in the aAa games as well. Also, Hotshot is one of the few solo top players to run champions like Nidalee, Cho'gath, Swain, or Galio. None of those are gimmicky at all save tanky DPS Nid and he usually doesn't even run that. He ran things like Shen and Irelia this tournament but frankly Shen is completely bonkers right now so you can't fault him for running a champion that's incredibly strong and almost every solo top player can play Irelia because she fits in with so many team comps. Other than his really bad play in the second half of the second M5 game or the weird swapping he did with Doublelift (which very well might not have been his call) in the first game he did well throughout the entire tournament. Honestly the weakest part of CLG right now is the inconsistency of Doublelift/Chauster. One game Double can do extremely well and the next game he just makes horrible decisions. There's lots of things that CLG can work on and a lot of poor decisions they made in the M5 series but most of your comments about Hotshot are pretty far from the truth. He's still one of the most solid NA top laners. He didn't beat darien 1on1. LoL is not a 1on1 game, and the guys that made the big name teams early, often get carried. All of the champs you listend are gimmicky, they are all super tanky with a large margin for error, they can survive and generally right click away from most situations. Hotshots decision making is piss poor, there are countless times he has told his team he was ready to tp, then he would just leave them hanging to farm. There are a lot of fanbois that glorify hotshot, because some games he will be allowed to farm on someone like chogath and then run around never being focused because he is so tanky and just spamming disables. In reality he is a conceptually flawed player, and if the game was a 1on1 game he would get shit on by far better players. But as it stands now he is in charge of one of the original and most popular LoL teams, so he would never get benched or cut. Reginald is in the same position, they both make awful decisions, are at times lacking severely in teamwork and attitude, but they will never get replaced even if they are the weakest link. One thing that is important when following competitive LoL is understanding, who is actually skilled (because those will be the people of the future) and who is just good at abusing gimmicks. I have nothing against people stacking the deck in their favor as much as possible, within the rules, so when CLG finds abusive synergies that is great research on their part, but a lot of how they play has a lot less finesse, but LoL is a poorly balanced game and is still in its competitive infancy so abusing balance issues is highly rewarding. If you look at teams like World Elite and M5 though, you can see that they play with a lot more finesse, the things they try to pull off as a team take much more skill, but often times they will do stuff that takes way more effort, with small payoffs, but if you can consistently do that the payoffs will add up and help give you a great chance of winning. Hotshot is a player that can't play from behind at all, he isn't resilient to defeat, great top laners can often come back or at least minimize the damage as best as possible. Put hotshot on a non tanky champ and he often gets decimated asap for his poor positioning and terrible decision making in team fights. I mean that last game vs m5 showed how unaware he is capable of being. First he ports up top to a wave right outside the enemy base as his team shops, not factoring the fact that the enemy team still had all their ults up and he was overextended on his own. Second his team is split and m5 is between them and he doesnt pay attention and gets caught by himself and dies. Ultimately costing his team a baron. Third he ports late to a teamfight at baron and m5 gets yet another baron by that time. Hotshot can only learn to make good decisions through habit, not because he has an intuitive understanding of the game and can adapt quickly and efficiently (which he cant)
You shit all over HSGG's choices in decision making, and his champ selection, perhaps you should look at it more of a stylistic choice, rather than actual error.
Ever thought that his position as a tanky motherfucking top is just his playstyle choice, rather than just a so called "weakpoint"?
And what's with your beef on HSGG?
Throws happen to all teams, doublelift did it a while back, now it was just Hsgg's mistake. CLG will mill about it, and give the proper blame, and try not to make the same mistakes again.
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On March 10 2012 18:13 robertdinh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 16:02 overt wrote:On March 10 2012 15:33 robertdinh wrote:
I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen. I bolded that part 'cause it's mostly the only part that's true. He beat Darien in lane both games of M5. Was incredibly dominant in the aAa games as well. Also, Hotshot is one of the few solo top players to run champions like Nidalee, Cho'gath, Swain, or Galio. None of those are gimmicky at all save tanky DPS Nid and he usually doesn't even run that. He ran things like Shen and Irelia this tournament but frankly Shen is completely bonkers right now so you can't fault him for running a champion that's incredibly strong and almost every solo top player can play Irelia because she fits in with so many team comps. Other than his really bad play in the second half of the second M5 game or the weird swapping he did with Doublelift (which very well might not have been his call) in the first game he did well throughout the entire tournament. Honestly the weakest part of CLG right now is the inconsistency of Doublelift/Chauster. One game Double can do extremely well and the next game he just makes horrible decisions. There's lots of things that CLG can work on and a lot of poor decisions they made in the M5 series but most of your comments about Hotshot are pretty far from the truth. He's still one of the most solid NA top laners. He didn't beat darien 1on1. LoL is not a 1on1 game, and the guys that made the big name teams early, often get carried. All of the champs you listend are gimmicky, they are all super tanky with a large margin for error, they can survive and generally right click away from most situations. Hotshots decision making is piss poor, there are countless times he has told his team he was ready to tp, then he would just leave them hanging to farm. There are a lot of fanbois that glorify hotshot, because some games he will be allowed to farm on someone like chogath and then run around never being focused because he is so tanky and just spamming disables. In reality he is a conceptually flawed player, and if the game was a 1on1 game he would get shit on by far better players. But as it stands now he is in charge of one of the original and most popular LoL teams, so he would never get benched or cut. Reginald is in the same position, they both make awful decisions, are at times lacking severely in teamwork and attitude, but they will never get replaced even if they are the weakest link. One thing that is important when following competitive LoL is understanding, who is actually skilled (because those will be the people of the future) and who is just good at abusing gimmicks. I have nothing against people stacking the deck in their favor as much as possible, within the rules, so when CLG finds abusive synergies that is great research on their part, but a lot of how they play has a lot less finesse, but LoL is a poorly balanced game and is still in its competitive infancy so abusing balance issues is highly rewarding. If you look at teams like World Elite and M5 though, you can see that they play with a lot more finesse, the things they try to pull off as a team take much more skill, but often times they will do stuff that takes way more effort, with small payoffs, but if you can consistently do that the payoffs will add up and help give you a great chance of winning. Hotshot is a player that can't play from behind at all, he isn't resilient to defeat, great top laners can often come back or at least minimize the damage as best as possible. Put hotshot on a non tanky champ and he often gets decimated asap for his poor positioning and terrible decision making in team fights. I mean that last game vs m5 showed how unaware he is capable of being. First he ports up top to a wave right outside the enemy base as his team shops, not factoring the fact that the enemy team still had all their ults up and he was overextended on his own. Second his team is split and m5 is between them and he doesnt pay attention and gets caught by himself and dies. Ultimately costing his team a baron. Third he ports late to a teamfight at baron and m5 gets yet another baron by that time. Hotshot can only learn to make good decisions through habit, not because he has an intuitive understanding of the game and can adapt quickly and efficiently (which he cant)
This seems like a really well written troll. Subtle flame bait, taking a slightly contrarian stance but one that has it's own supporters(HSGG haters), subtle knocks on Americans(only EU and Chinese teams play with skill apparently, any innovation America does is gimmicky); if the name wasn't familiar I may have thought it was a legit post, but I can't recall the last time I saw you post something worthwhile.
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This is going to be a great match.
Dignitas fighting (my fav NA team)!. Hoping for a 2-1 though.
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He lists WE as a top team? What? Real?
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On March 10 2012 15:33 robertdinh wrote:
I'm glad m5 won after all the trashtalk that saintvicious had been doing on stream for a month or two.
I like how saint said the m5 counter jungle style was so easy to beat if your top and mid rotate, yet CLG's ultimate solution was to ban all of the champs that do it well. Sure must be easy to beat... lol
Hotshot has been overrated for a long time. He is definitely one of the weakest links on CLG.
He is basically only capable of playing super tanky gimmick champs, and only if his team can 4v5 while he tunnel vision farms.
A lot of people don't see it that way, but i mean it's so easy to be tanky and not get focused and run around when you get to tunnel vision farm.
He also has very bad map awareness and seems to be too focused on the center of the screen.
What games were you watching? m5 was getting trashed (the second game especially) and clg just misplayed horribly while m5 made very few mistakes during the mid/late game. CLG banned those champs because they're literally the only 3 champs diamond ever plays, forcing him to play nocturne worked well, CLG just had no followup and played badly when they had significant leads.
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EPT
