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On December 10 2011 05:12 Dgiese wrote:
Man, I'm sick of people having such narrow views when it comes to tournaments like this. It always seemed to be the case that ppl were saying "CLG / TSM takes this", the Fnatic surprised those ppl, then Dignitas started getting great results, etc etc. The point is 'upsets' in the LoL scene are pretty frequent, hell, Goose qualified for IEM Kiev, and it didn't seem like a fluke either.
So yeah, my point is that saying stuff like "the semi's are in the quarters" get's on my nerves. All of those teams are strong, maybe you can write off a couple, but narrowing it down to 4 clearly above the rest seems ridiculous to me. But hey, it's not like everybody does it, and since I live in the States now, I should probably learn to live with that way of thinking
How on earth did you manage to make this some kind of USA bashing post?
Goose qualified because CLG played with their lineup and EG was playing without one of the best APs in the game. If you wanted to cite some upsets you would've been better talking about the European qualifiers. But that's clearly America's fault.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
real hoodrats post up at the marshall islands
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On December 10 2011 05:29 Dgiese wrote:
See it's just stuff like that. "Goose was a fluke because EG forfeited". Ok, so because EG forfeited, v8 got through first round for free, lost to dig, beat CLG then lost to goose. And cause EG forfeited Goose lost to dig, then BEAT EG (Although I think EG had a sub for Salce or something, which admittedly is an issue, but isn't monumental), then beat CRS, then beat V8.
So yeah, what the??
If it wasn't EG forfeiting, then I get the feeling you'd be saying CLG threw it for some reason or another. I think these teams deserve more respect than they're being given.
Im not going to get into this too much, but the entire tournament got screwed over by the fact that arguably the strongest team in America couldnt actually put their best team together.
Monumental? Salce is their best player. By far. No contest. Not even close. Not only did they lose salce, they had to have dyrus play out of position AND give the ad carry slot to the sub.
So ya. It was a flukey situation. I cannot argue that Goose beat the other teams based on merit. But I can and will argue all day long that given a full roster there is no way that Goose beats them in a Bo3 to qualify.
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On December 10 2011 06:22 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 05:12 Dgiese wrote:
Man, I'm sick of people having such narrow views when it comes to tournaments like this. It always seemed to be the case that ppl were saying "CLG / TSM takes this", the Fnatic surprised those ppl, then Dignitas started getting great results, etc etc. The point is 'upsets' in the LoL scene are pretty frequent, hell, Goose qualified for IEM Kiev, and it didn't seem like a fluke either.
So yeah, my point is that saying stuff like "the semi's are in the quarters" get's on my nerves. All of those teams are strong, maybe you can write off a couple, but narrowing it down to 4 clearly above the rest seems ridiculous to me. But hey, it's not like everybody does it, and since I live in the States now, I should probably learn to live with that way of thinking How on earth did you manage to make this some kind of USA bashing post? Goose qualified because CLG played with their lineup and EG was playing without one of the best APs in the game. If you wanted to cite some upsets you would've been better talking about the European qualifiers. But that's clearly America's fault.
It's a way of thinking that in my experience is the most prevalent in American's. Europeans seem a lot more open minded with their assessments. It's definitely not something that occurs in all American's, or even in many. But when it does occur, that's where it seems to occur.
I don't mean to 'bash the USA', hell, I moved here. But yeah, it's pretty much an American thing.
As for the WCG, I'd really like to see a Korea Vs China match.
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On December 10 2011 06:29 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 06:22 red_ wrote:On December 10 2011 05:12 Dgiese wrote:
Man, I'm sick of people having such narrow views when it comes to tournaments like this. It always seemed to be the case that ppl were saying "CLG / TSM takes this", the Fnatic surprised those ppl, then Dignitas started getting great results, etc etc. The point is 'upsets' in the LoL scene are pretty frequent, hell, Goose qualified for IEM Kiev, and it didn't seem like a fluke either.
So yeah, my point is that saying stuff like "the semi's are in the quarters" get's on my nerves. All of those teams are strong, maybe you can write off a couple, but narrowing it down to 4 clearly above the rest seems ridiculous to me. But hey, it's not like everybody does it, and since I live in the States now, I should probably learn to live with that way of thinking How on earth did you manage to make this some kind of USA bashing post? Goose qualified because CLG played with their lineup and EG was playing without one of the best APs in the game. If you wanted to cite some upsets you would've been better talking about the European qualifiers. But that's clearly America's fault. It's a way of thinking that in my experience is the most prevalent in American's. Europeans seem a lot more open minded with their assessments. It's definitely not something that occurs in all American's, or even in many. But when it does occur, that's where it seems to occur. I don't mean to 'bash the USA', hell, I moved here. But yeah, it's pretty much an American thing. As for the WCG, I'd really like to see a Korea Vs China match.
Ehhh, I think it's more than Europeans tend to, you know, watch a lot more European streams of European teams that they like, than say, an American, who watches more American streams of American teams that they like. You know, watching a team from your country and rooting for them, believing they'll win cause you know they're up there.........
Instead of "GOD AMERICANS SUCK THEY DON'T ROOT FOR EUROPEANS OR CHINESE."
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On December 10 2011 06:25 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 05:29 Dgiese wrote:
See it's just stuff like that. "Goose was a fluke because EG forfeited". Ok, so because EG forfeited, v8 got through first round for free, lost to dig, beat CLG then lost to goose. And cause EG forfeited Goose lost to dig, then BEAT EG (Although I think EG had a sub for Salce or something, which admittedly is an issue, but isn't monumental), then beat CRS, then beat V8.
So yeah, what the??
If it wasn't EG forfeiting, then I get the feeling you'd be saying CLG threw it for some reason or another. I think these teams deserve more respect than they're being given. Im not going to get into this too much, but the entire tournament got screwed over by the fact that arguably the strongest team in America couldnt actually put their best team together. Monumental? Salce is their best player. By far. No contest. Not even close. Not only did they lose salce, they had to have dyrus play out of position AND give the ad carry slot to the sub. So ya. It was a flukey situation. I cannot argue that Goose beat the other teams based on merit. But I can and will argue all day long that given a full roster there is no way that Goose beats them in a Bo3 to qualify.
I suppose your definition of monumental differs to mine. I don't see that as being monumental, I'm not doubting that it's an issue, maybe even a kinda big deal, but I wouldn't say monumental (but that's cool, we can agree to disagree on that  )
It's cool that you want to argue that EG beat them with a full lineup, but it's a pretty fruitless argument. We've got this recent result to go on, and the result could change if EG has their full lineup (it ended up being 2:1). But to imply that one tournament was royally screwed over by one player being missing.... yeah, we're just not on the same page here. I had hella fun watching all the games, especially those with goose, and V8. If anything screwed up the legitimacy of the tourney, it was the forfeiting fiasco, with all the teams trying to forfeit.
I like EG, I think they're a great team and really fun to watch. But they just didn't have their shit together on the day. First Westrice was missing, then Salce. And the sad thing is that's not an uncommon occurence with their team. So, while they may be the best team when their lineup is all there, it doesn't mean much if their lineup is flaky as hell.
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On December 10 2011 06:40 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 06:29 Dgiese wrote:On December 10 2011 06:22 red_ wrote:On December 10 2011 05:12 Dgiese wrote:
Man, I'm sick of people having such narrow views when it comes to tournaments like this. It always seemed to be the case that ppl were saying "CLG / TSM takes this", the Fnatic surprised those ppl, then Dignitas started getting great results, etc etc. The point is 'upsets' in the LoL scene are pretty frequent, hell, Goose qualified for IEM Kiev, and it didn't seem like a fluke either.
So yeah, my point is that saying stuff like "the semi's are in the quarters" get's on my nerves. All of those teams are strong, maybe you can write off a couple, but narrowing it down to 4 clearly above the rest seems ridiculous to me. But hey, it's not like everybody does it, and since I live in the States now, I should probably learn to live with that way of thinking How on earth did you manage to make this some kind of USA bashing post? Goose qualified because CLG played with their lineup and EG was playing without one of the best APs in the game. If you wanted to cite some upsets you would've been better talking about the European qualifiers. But that's clearly America's fault. It's a way of thinking that in my experience is the most prevalent in American's. Europeans seem a lot more open minded with their assessments. It's definitely not something that occurs in all American's, or even in many. But when it does occur, that's where it seems to occur. I don't mean to 'bash the USA', hell, I moved here. But yeah, it's pretty much an American thing. As for the WCG, I'd really like to see a Korea Vs China match. Ehhh, I think it's more than Europeans tend to, you know, watch a lot more European streams of European teams that they like, than say, an American, who watches more American streams of American teams that they like. You know, watching a team from your country and rooting for them, believing they'll win cause you know they're up there......... Instead of "GOD AMERICANS SUCK THEY DON'T ROOT FOR EUROPEANS OR CHINESE."
If this viewpoint were accurate, then we'd expect to see the same behaviour that I attributed to American's, in Europeans - right? Personally, I just don't really see it.
But hey, I'm from NZ, and we didn't even make the WCG...
It's not really even an american thing, it's just a fanboy thing. It's just coincidence that America has more fanboys for their various teams. I mean, patriotism is a particularly American trait, I'm led to believe.
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Spain1146 Posts
I agree with it being more of a fanboy thing. Im Spanish and in a Canada vs Spain game I can't help but root for the Hotshotnidaleegg's.
But yeah maybe we are more open to watching both sides, I mean, how many Americans watch Eurostreams?
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People in Korea obviously were Hyuk or Zergbong fanboys for their obvious skill of having less than a 20% winrate, and not that they might just be cool guys, obviously. :>
OH, but nope, fanboyism is just an American trait. ^.^
edit: Like half of this forum at least watch guardsman bob. I watch shushei and xpeke from time to time if they are streaming. I look for good streams/players, I don't care where they're from. o.o
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^^ agree with that statement// the nationalism thing is whatever as long as they make it exciting for us viewers to watch.. it'll make LoL really an esports event that would be fun to watch in general.
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my predictions for semis:
ROUND OF 8
Jerome_NEGGRET - Flash.lol
CDE - Dignitas
iG - Counter-Logic
EDG - Gameburg
Flash over Mill cause even tho Mill trolled one of their games yesterday, Flash went undefeated in their group and they seem pretty darn strong. CDE over Dig only if they let SV micro the team, otherwise if Regi and SV fight then Dig has it easy. iG over CLG cause the Chinese seem super strong atm. Same deal with EDG over Gameburg.
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On December 10 2011 05:06 Two_DoWn wrote:
Likely to be wasted on Korea vs no names instead of the 2 best series of the tournament.
My money is actually on the CLG vs. iG game as for what they're going to stream. Koreans seem to love Hotshot more than they love the Korean players. Guy's like the face of LoL practically.
I hope they don't show the CDE vs. Dignitas match. I'm sure it'll be awesome and exciting and all of the drama will just make it even more exciting. But if they show it I feel like it'll just stir up the drama of last month all over again.
And as for upsets, if one of the teams I didn't predict to place in top 4 doesn't win the tournament I'll put my foot in my mouth and admit that I'm completely wrong. With that said, I don't see any team that isn't one of the NA teams or iG winning WCG. In fact most likely finals is definitely one of the three NA teams or iG playing each other (unless of course those winners play in the semis which would suck even harder). Sure, an upset could happen, but that's how upsets happen...there are favorites and people assume those favorites are going to win. Why would you get mad about it?
edit:
In my experience Europeans tend to be huge TSM fanboys. Could just be the ones I've talked to though.
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On December 10 2011 08:18 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 05:06 Two_DoWn wrote:
Likely to be wasted on Korea vs no names instead of the 2 best series of the tournament. My money is actually on the CLG vs. iG game as for what they're going to stream. Koreans seem to love Hotshot more than they love the Korean players. Guy's like the face of LoL practically.I hope they don't show the CDE vs. Dignitas match. I'm sure it'll be awesome and exciting and all of the drama will just make it even more exciting. But if they show it I feel like it'll just stir up the drama of last month all over again. And as for upsets, if one of the teams I didn't predict to place in top 4 doesn't win the tournament I'll put my foot in my mouth and admit that I'm completely wrong. With that said, I don't see any team that isn't one of the NA teams or iG winning WCG. In fact most likely finals is definitely one of the three NA teams or iG playing each other (unless of course those winners play in the semis which would suck even harder). Sure, an upset could happen, but that's how upsets happen...there are favorites and people assume those favorites are going to win. Why would you get mad about it?
Sad but true. I feel bad for Riot having to essentially cater to whiny brats like him, but try to keep an entire community he influences in check.
I want to see CDE vs Dignitas not because of the drama. But just because those 2 teams consists of essentially the best players from the top 3 teams in NA. Well, arguably anyways.
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On December 10 2011 08:20 jacosajh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 08:18 overt wrote:On December 10 2011 05:06 Two_DoWn wrote:
Likely to be wasted on Korea vs no names instead of the 2 best series of the tournament. My money is actually on the CLG vs. iG game as for what they're going to stream. Koreans seem to love Hotshot more than they love the Korean players. Guy's like the face of LoL practically.I hope they don't show the CDE vs. Dignitas match. I'm sure it'll be awesome and exciting and all of the drama will just make it even more exciting. But if they show it I feel like it'll just stir up the drama of last month all over again. And as for upsets, if one of the teams I didn't predict to place in top 4 doesn't win the tournament I'll put my foot in my mouth and admit that I'm completely wrong. With that said, I don't see any team that isn't one of the NA teams or iG winning WCG. In fact most likely finals is definitely one of the three NA teams or iG playing each other (unless of course those winners play in the semis which would suck even harder). Sure, an upset could happen, but that's how upsets happen...there are favorites and people assume those favorites are going to win. Why would you get mad about it? Sad but true. I feel bad for Riot having to essentially cater to whiny brats like him, but try to keep an entire community he influences in check.
Meh. Every MOBA is filled with whiney brats who do nothing but bitch at teammates. Its how it works. Lol's community is actually pretty good compared to some of the others.
Besides, Riot benefits MUCH more from hotshot figuring out this whole streaming thing than they are hurt by people who act like they would have anyway.
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I'm not arguing that at all. EVERY game has whiny brats.
It's sad that the face of LoL IS the biggest whiny brat of them all.
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I honestly think Riot owes some of their success to Hotshot. He really did help popularize their game. And he can be whiny to his teammates and when he streams himself solo queuing but I think he just gets into the game too much. He's a pretty level headed and smart guy outside of game, he just needs to work on not caring as much when he plays.
He's by no means my favorite player and I very rarely watch his stream but I think he gets a lot of unfounded hate. Also, I love jiji, Chauster, and Doublelift and refuse to believe they'd play with a guy who's as much of a dick as people make HSGG out to be. 
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On December 10 2011 08:29 overt wrote:I honestly think Riot owes some of their success to Hotshot. He really did help popularize their game. And he can be whiny to his teammates and when he streams himself solo queuing but I think he just gets into the game too much. He's a pretty level headed and smart guy outside of game, he just needs to work on not caring as much when he plays. He's by no means my favorite player and I very rarely watch his stream but I think he gets a lot of unfounded hate. Also, I love jiji, Chauster, and Doublelift and refuse to believe they'd play with a guy who's as much of a dick as people make HSGG out to be.
real?
I honestly think Blizzard owes some of their success to Idra, hahahaha
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On December 10 2011 08:29 overt wrote:I honestly think Riot owes some of their success to Hotshot. He really did help popularize their game. And he can be whiny to his teammates and when he streams himself solo queuing but I think he just gets into the game too much. He's a pretty level headed and smart guy outside of game, he just needs to work on not caring as much when he plays. He's by no means my favorite player and I very rarely watch his stream but I think he gets a lot of unfounded hate. Also, I love jiji, Chauster, and Doublelift and refuse to believe they'd play with a guy who's as much of a dick as people make HSGG out to be.
Chauster - really? the guy who helped Missy cheat and chewed out Elementz
jiji - the guy who's so quiet a mouse gets alarmed whenever he moves
Doublelift - the guy who seems to be most vocally swayed by money; CLG = money
I used to watch HSGG streams like basically as much as I could. I had to stop because he's a cancer that will eat your soul until you're dead.
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And some people have to understand that CDE and CLGCA have no past results.. This is few players from TSM and CLG mixed together. It doesn't mean they play on same lvl as TSM and CLG. They are not used to playing 5s in this line-ups as much.
You could have written that team Spain has FnaticMSI past results because they have xPeke.
Not really. The thing with Spain is the players don't play together on a regular basis. TSM and CLg play against each other SUPER regualarly, and play amongst each other enough (through solo queue) that they can all mesh pretty well in CLGCA. The weaklink in canada is Elementz, the rest work just fine together. Dignitas are the bottom of the 3 north american teams, even though they actually play as a team outside of WCG. Canada might not be the superbest teamwork team there atm, but in terms of quality of players, and their ability to work with less familiar people (they all solo queue more than anyone else outside of CDE as far as I know) will bring them to the top of this IMO. Though Korea has a good shot I think.
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On December 10 2011 08:37 emucxg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 08:29 overt wrote:I honestly think Riot owes some of their success to Hotshot. He really did help popularize their game. And he can be whiny to his teammates and when he streams himself solo queuing but I think he just gets into the game too much. He's a pretty level headed and smart guy outside of game, he just needs to work on not caring as much when he plays. He's by no means my favorite player and I very rarely watch his stream but I think he gets a lot of unfounded hate. Also, I love jiji, Chauster, and Doublelift and refuse to believe they'd play with a guy who's as much of a dick as people make HSGG out to be. real? I honestly think Blizzard owes some of their success to Idra, hahahaha
roofl, gotta call mike to remind him he owes some royalties to idra
also, just something that popped into my head when I read about HSGG being smart guy outside the game, anyone remember the stream day when he got a new phone and couldn't figure how to open it to add in battery? :D googling for how-to videos was too funny. Not saying he is like super dumb or anything, happens to anyone, but I found it hilarious.
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EPT
