EPT[Champion] Skarner - Page 4
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Advocado
Denmark994 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2396 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Will need to test out a different skill order (E at lvl2 specifically), might be slightly better, not convinced yet Might want to try out Ancient Golem even though I loathe the item, I am compelled to with the massive AD nerfs Playstyle hasn't changed at all, can't 1v1 and 2v2 people as well but still pretty beast, don't think that section needs updating. Overall the changes were a slight nerf if you want my evaluation on it. Reasoning: massive nerfs to damage are not fully compensated for by lower cd on W outside fights, higher mspeed in fights and a pathetic stun. Not particularly important for this thread though. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
If you say even with Lizard his damage is way lowered it doesn't sound good. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Pibacc
Canada545 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
You might want to explain your reasoning as to why you like hybrid pens more than attack speed because it's about as counterintuitive as it gets | ||
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Pibacc
Canada545 Posts
On June 22 2014 07:14 Scip wrote: I already explained why Feral Flare is awful earlier in the thread (mana, way worse than Lizard Elder until 30 stacks and even then it's slightly worse) You might want to explain your reasoning as to why you like hybrid pens more than attack speed because it's about as counterintuitive as it gets Didn't read the entire thread so didn't see the point on Feral Flare. As for attack speed vs hybrid runes I feel like with q and attack speed quints I think you get enough attack speed, and the hybrid pen runes give you some extra strength when dueling. To be honest I haven't done thorough testing, was just shootin some ideas around. Edit: I guess i worded my opinion on runes as fact so my bad there. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
It's hard to estimate just how much the increased attack speed reduces your Q cd, but since at this point your attack speed is over 1.0 something like bit less than half of your CD cooldown gets reduced by autoattacks (and a bit more than half by time) so just estimating here and glossing over the higher granularity of damage from your Q the damage from it gets increased by about 3% from the extra attack speed. Let's just cut the math short here because I wanna watch MLG Smash but if we take these values of 8% increased dmg from autoattacks + 3% increased dmg from Qs vs. about 5.5% increased dmg from autos and Qs it's better dps for autoattack runes (single target, still better if hitting about 1.5 targets on average iirc), so what the hybrid pen offer you is a bit more burst dmg on your ult+passive+E vs. the extra tiny amount of dps and faster clear (about 6s faster lvl4; 3:36 vs. 3:42). In favour of attack speed runes at this point. The runes value remain relatively same probably, as although you will get ibg later the enemies resistances shoot up rapidly then and attack speed provides a bit more utility allowing you to apply ibg procs a tiny bit more accurately+being way better if you dont have 3 Q stacks up. | ||
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Pibacc
Canada545 Posts
On June 22 2014 10:01 Scip wrote: 15% attack speed on Skarner is about 0.09 attacks per second, with full stacks on Q at lvl9 and attack speed quints you have 1,1175 attack speed. So at this point attack speed reds increase your autoattack dps by about 8%. Against targets with 50 armor, the armor pen part will increase your physical dmg by about 5.7%, against targets with 75 armor by about 4.8%. It's hard to estimate just how much the increased attack speed reduces your Q cd, but since at this point your attack speed is over 1.0 something like bit less than half of your CD cooldown gets reduced by autoattacks (and a bit more than half by time) so just estimating here and glossing over the higher granularity of damage from your Q the damage from it gets increased by about 3% from the extra attack speed. Let's just cut the math short here because I wanna watch MLG Smash but if we take these values of 8% increased dmg from autoattacks + 3% increased dmg from Qs vs. about 5.5% increased dmg from autos and Qs it's better dps for autoattack runes (single target, still better if hitting about 1.5 targets on average iirc), so what the hybrid pen offer you is a bit more burst dmg on your ult+passive+E vs. the extra tiny amount of dps and faster clear (about 6s faster lvl4; 3:36 vs. 3:42). In favour of attack speed runes at this point. The runes value remain relatively same probably, as although you will get ibg later the enemies resistances shoot up rapidly then and attack speed provides a bit more utility allowing you to apply ibg procs a tiny bit more accurately+being way better if you dont have 3 Q stacks up. Ya that's fair. Not the biggest difference in the world but I'll have to try attack speed reds out. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 22 2014 06:54 Pibacc wrote: IMO hybrid reds are better than attack speed. you say this without backing up your opinion with any numbers or any kind of analysis at all. completely worthless, although you could probably claim that hybrid reds do more damage lategame it would still be a terrible idea because the benefit would be very marginal lategame and you would be way behind from all the advantage you lost from not using rune slots when they are most effective they have a flat value they have most of their effect when everyone has less gold i.e early on, you want to snowball advantages such as more jungle farm and faster level 6 On June 22 2014 06:54 Pibacc wrote: Also try feral flare, I saw a Skarner go for it and although his early game was a bit weaker he did crazy damage later on. you saw ONE person build a certain item and do damage, and then say thats perfectly good causation for why he did "crazy damage" later on when theres no way you could tell the difference between a lizard skarner and a feral flare skarner considering he builds other items and you have no proper point of reference even if it were good (it isn't), one perspective from one game doesn't show anything. i get that you're trying to participate in the thread and being like "yayyy lets talk about our favourite game and all the fun things we can do" but these kind of posts dont belong in a strategy section of any forum. i mean no shit the difference is going to be small but when you're making a direct comparision between things that have a small effect on their own anyway something like a 6 second clear difference is huge | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
 User was warned for this post | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
First, the 21/9/0 mastery suggestion felt rather suboptimal (I noticed the OP has changed it to 9/21/0 now). I had games where I invaded the enemy junglers and games where I was invaded on and in both situations (pre-6) I felt like I couldn't duel very well. By the 3rd game, I switched to 9/21 and it definitely felt smoother early game. 21/9 seems good if you're avoidant of fights and all you want to do is rush to level 6, otherwise 9/21 is better imo. E has to be skilled at least a point at level 4 otherwise you literally have to get into melee range to have any sort of CC applied. Now I know Scip doesn't like to gank pre-6 but I normally roam top or into the enemy jungle around level 3-4 and hope for some kind of pick so I had to build accordingly. Now I think the main reason I moved on from Skarner is how incredibly reliant he is on Flash/Impale. Like people think Annie needs Flash up in order to initiate but it feels even more clunky with Skarner. Now that might be my own shortcomings being highlight on a champion like Skarner but his dependency on Flash is off-putting despite his solid jungle clears and fun to spam Qs. I felt like there were too many instances of me Flashing for a target and the enemy Flashing before I could hook the Impale. :< That all said, the new Ancient Golem seems interesting for a tanky Skarner. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/soAD7uR.png) :3 but it would be rude of me not to respond to your feedback Skilling E at lvl2 is almost certainly better than at lvl4 after the latest machete nerfs (you want to base at about lvl4 pretty much no matter what happens; it's faster than taking W at lvl2 but you lose more hp). Leveling it lvl8 is probably still an option too. I'm not sure if I elaborated on invading in the guide, but it will get you killed/make you blow your flash as your 1v1 isn't exactly great anymore nor do you have a jump. Yeah, Skarner is REALLY reliant on flash. Need to manage it quite accurately. And yeah, new Ancient Golem might be good. | ||
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