EPTAlso, even in shitlord MMR wriggles is still garbage and I'd pick spirit path any day. Its not just the mana, it speeds up your clears by 1-2 Qs, and also it means you can do things instead of having a garbage item.
[Champion] Skarner - Page 2
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Also, even in shitlord MMR wriggles is still garbage and I'd pick spirit path any day. Its not just the mana, it speeds up your clears by 1-2 Qs, and also it means you can do things instead of having a garbage item. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
What's your reasoning for AP vs AD runes/mastery? simply initial clear speed? Also Abyssal, DFG for second damage item? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Skarner, Hecarim and Vi now? Another beast entirely. Even Nocturne empties his pool pretty fast using Q once or twice on each camp. ^ a bunch of Skarner's damage comes from autoattacks, especially early game when his Q is still low-level, and considering the stacking AS buff on it. DFG only amplifies magic damage... which is maybe half of Q, E (that you max last so not much damage anyway) and R (which reduces your damage since you can't auto or E during it). You pay 3100 for it while you have no burst yourself and thinking "I've got 4s to wreck him" isn't really viable when you die in 2 yourself because you're so squishy and melee range on everything. Abyssal is better when you have good base damage (since it's essentially penetration unless you buy void staff), which isn't Skarner's case. Q's magic base damage is really bad compared to the ratio. TL;DR: you deal damage from spamming your abilities in the middle of the enemy team, so you get more out of living longer than from hitting a bit harder before you get exploded. Defensive AP itemisation is still AP with a side of utility, so just build tanky and abuse CDR and Sheen (Skarner has one of the highest base AD in the game) for your damage. Plus half your AoE and 2/3rd of your single-target damage is physical damage anyway. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
About wriggles, it's just a generally awful item. There's a reason why all the nocturnes you see build Lizard Elder even though everyone was getting a hardon about how noc and wriggles synergize well before the nerfs. Ok I'll edit in the guide a bit in the evening, probably add 9/21/0 as an alternative or maybe as the main option, I'll see if there's a simple way to make the video about carrying over your Q stacks. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
I can imagine the MS quints being very useful for later stages of the game although he already has a MS steroid | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Yeah, thinking 9/21/0 should be the main option, the only mastery in offense past the first 9 that increase your jungling speed is the 3% dmg increase one and that one's negligable. Hard to justify getting a bit more dmg on champs when you can get 15% CC reduction and massive amounts of resists instead. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Thoughts on Trinity Force? Would obv have to be instead of IBG otherwise too much wasted gold. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
I'm not sure what to say about "relying on your team to do damage". That's not Skarner-specific, that's true for everyone. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
On June 16 2014 22:01 NeoIllusions wrote: I haven't played many Junglers that aren't 21/9 this season. Even champions like Hec/Noc who I went 9/21 last season, I've switched over to. Thoughts on Trinity Force? Would obv have to be instead of IBG otherwise too much wasted gold. I tried it a couple times in the jungle and I just got blown up in the first real big fight. I feel like you really need the armor that IBG gives and tbh the damage from it isn't all that bad either. While Triforce gives you a better chance at catching up to people, once you're actually in melee range of them IBG is better for chasing. If you play Skarner top though its a good first buy vs most ranged and AP matchups. You could also go BotRK in those situations but I like my triforce just a little bit better. Edit: I'd even say that as Skarner you rely less on your team to do damage compared to other junglers. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
Edit: What do you think about replacing Expose weakness/blade weaving/spell weaving with Mental Force and Arcane mastery (the AP masteries)? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On June 16 2014 22:01 NeoIllusions wrote: I haven't played many Junglers that aren't 21/9 this season. Even champions like Hec/Noc who I went 9/21 last season, I've switched over to. Thoughts on Trinity Force? Would obv have to be instead of IBG otherwise too much wasted gold. Eh? Is the difference that big on Hecarim? Considering how is kit and especially W work, and how weak he is early on anyway I think I'd rather go 21 defense for extra safety and more Tenacity, even though Spell Weaving and Blade Weaving are really good on champions like him and Skarner. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 16 2014 22:46 Fildun wrote: Well I couldn't solo kill anyone with the build whereas with Rengar and Warwick I could solo kill squishies. That's what I mean by needing the team to do damage. He does decent persistent damage in the middle of a fight but if you want to win the fight sometimes just being in the middle of it and hoping their tanks die before you do doesn't work out. All the reachable ult targets are tanky enough that you can't kill them by yourself. So you can only ult targets when your team is ready to follow you up. The end game "damage to champions" isn't that high for me either compared to what I reach with Rengar jungle. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On June 16 2014 22:46 Scip wrote: I'd lie if I said that I tested triforce nearly enough to pass a definite judgment, but it doesn't seem as good as IBG on paper. I find that the 500 mana from IGB is not actually an overkill, not at the point when you want to be using your E promiscuously. The movement speed bonuses are cute, but I question their value when compared to the IBG slow, as you are probably at around the mspeed hardcap anyway. It does provide more damage, 30 AD and 30% atk spe isn't insignificant, same for the 200% instead of 125% sheen proc, but I think the slow from IBG, extra tanky stats, 10% cdr and 800 gold cheaper outweigh these advantages. I'm not sure what to say about "relying on your team to do damage". That's not Skarner-specific, that's true for everyone. Ok, sounds good. My train of thought was focused on the MS but I think you're giving up too much just so you can possibility initiate slightly better. IBG does make you more well rounded. I assume Glacial is normally the first buy, over Sheen? | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
About the movement speed, in ideal scenario it's pretty much incosequential. Hopefully you have like Lulu or Karma on your team who can just give you 60% mspeed instantly. To justify mentioning Zephyr in the guide, after talking so much shit about %mspeed on Skarner, it really is only justifiable if you went ninja tabi for the early game survivability against a physical dmg only team AND you want a damage item AND you feel like the extra tenacity would be more helpful than, say, BotRK active. It's a tiny niche but Skarner doesn't have that many options to deviate from the cookie-cutter build so I went and mentioned it anyway. For all you Shakedrizzles out there, what would be the simplest way to make a video about how to conserve your Q stacks? Could I make a recording on twitch and then cut it (in what program?) or is there a simpler way? Yeah, damage dealt to champions usually isn't exactly stellar for Skarner. I'm not sure what you are getting at though. You can't just jump into the enemy team as Rengar or WW either if your team isn't there to follow up and Skarner DOES have enough damage to be a massive threat 1v1 or 2v2 | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 16 2014 23:01 Scip wrote: Actually depends on gold, if you have enough to buy sheen straight away go for it, but I find that majority of the time I back with about 1k-1100 gold at that point which is only enough for glacial. If you only have 850 or so then it doesn't really matter much, just decide whether the extra armor or AP is going to be more useful. About the movement speed, in ideal scenario it's pretty much incosequential. Hopefully you have like Lulu or Karma on your team who can just give you 60% mspeed instantly. To justify mentioning Zephyr in the guide, after talking so much shit about %mspeed on Skarner, it really is only justifiable if you went ninja tabi for the early game survivability against a physical dmg only team AND you want a damage item AND you feel like the extra tenacity would be more helpful than, say, BotRK active. It's a tiny niche but Skarner doesn't have that many options to deviate from the cookie-cutter build so I went and mentioned it anyway. For all you Shakedrizzles out there, what would be the simplest way to make a video about how to conserve your Q stacks? Could I make a recording on twitch and then cut it (in what program?) or is there a simpler way? Yeah, damage dealt to champions usually isn't exactly stellar for Skarner. I'm not sure what you are getting at though. You can't just jump into the enemy team as Rengar or WW either if your team isn't there to follow up and Skarner DOES have enough damage to be a massive threat 1v1 or 2v2 I'm just saying he won't solo kill anyone at full health. Like you need someone nearby. It's the same with Sejuani. If Rengar catches someone out, he can definitely kill them. Skarner is definitely a better duelist than Rengar but Rengar will never duel him. And that doesn't feel great. A big reason carry junglers are always popular is because you can get kills with them and don't feel like you're doing bad. Anyways, I did my 5 games on Skarner. He feels great and I would definitely recommend people give him a try. Closing thoughts: I think ancient golem is a good alternative. It can let you build ninja tabis against an AD team but will of course make your ganks worse by reducing your damage if you finish it before completing sheen. And spectral wraith is decent too. Just 50 AP means 20 more damage on Q, 40 more shield on W, 35 on E, and 50 on the ult. It also gives 10% cdr. Compared to Eldar lizard which gives 30 AD on autos and the true damage dot and 24 damage on Q. Skarner's shield has a crazy high ratio. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4123 Posts
The thing I like to do after I get Iceborn is to just walk top, start autoattacking the enemy top and just kill him outright. You do need vision on their jungler for this though. I don't feel like you can really do that on Rengar if the enemy is still at full HP. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Also, what do you mean by "less damage if you finish it before sheen"? Firstly it implies that you would consider building something other than jungle item first which is just terrible and secondly it imlies that you won't suffer from lack of damage after you do build sheen, which is untrue as well. | ||
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