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I do wish that somebody played her that was either a pro or a streamer, not because I want her to become more popular, but because all of my recommendations in the OP come from my own experiences, simply because there is no other data out there to gather on her.
I feel like thats why both this and the discussion in the GD thread have seen so much disagreement, there is no proven track record out there for anything other than the way you yourself play her.
also I'm really sorry about the synergy section, I ended up working 6 days this week zzz, I should have some time to get on it tomorrow but MLG is on so we'll see (read:mabye by tuesday)
I'm accepting any and all imput for ADs that aren't: Draven, Vayne, MF, Kog, EZ and Ashe, I have little to no experience with the other AD carries as partners so I'd be going purely off theory. (I guess I probly have as much as anyone with Quinn, she's just new/not played much)
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I've played Nami/Twitch a couple times with a friend at low ELO (1200). Nami's E causes just enough engaging ability for Twitch to land 4 autos his W and expunge for max stacks. Might not work on better botlaners who don't just run from fights 24/7, but Nami's great at short trades of similar length to what Twitch wants, in my experience.
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On March 17 2013 16:03 TheHumanSensation wrote:
I've played Nami/Twitch a couple times with a friend at low ELO (1200). Nami's E causes just enough engaging ability for Twitch to land 4 autos his W and expunge for max stacks. Might not work on better botlaners who don't just run from fights 24/7, but Nami's great at short trades of similar length to what Twitch wants, in my experience.
Yea, Nami Twitch is a great lane. He comes out of stealth with your E on him and gets all his stacks pretty effectively. Too bad nobody plays Twitch.
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On March 17 2013 13:22 Slusher wrote:
I do wish that somebody played her that was either a pro or a streamer, not because I want her to become more popular, but because all of my recommendations in the OP come from my own experiences, simply because there is no other data out there to gather on her.
I feel like thats why both this and the discussion in the GD thread have seen so much disagreement, there is no proven track record out there for anything other than the way you yourself play her.
also I'm really sorry about the synergy section, I ended up working 6 days this week zzz, I should have some time to get on it tomorrow but MLG is on so we'll see (read:mabye by tuesday)
I'm accepting any and all imput for ADs that aren't: Draven, Vayne, MF, Kog, EZ and Ashe, I have little to no experience with the other AD carries as partners so I'd be going purely off theory. (I guess I probly have as much as anyone with Quinn, she's just new/not played much)
I feel she has no synergy at all if it's not Draven or MF or Caitlyn.
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Then you haven't played Nami/Vayne, also not all of those are good, like I don't like Nami Ezreal at all, but people choose him so much I end up playing that lane from time to time, and I don't need additional info(as much, obviously anything is appreciated) on playing with Ezreal as I have done it many times. It isn't a list of what I think is good.
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oh god no mana regen runes !!!? i think she needs it the most out of any support, her and maybe sona are tied i guess, but at least with sona you could go no mana reg runes --> rush chalice, you cant do that on nami!
but anyway, to the meat, i agree with a lot of the things you said and i actually am excited that someone shares alot of the more subtle opinions or observations. Like the brutalness of her Q (that if you miss it you die) or the strength of her ult + her passive and such (and the synergy of her ult+ shurelias).
that being said, i think we very much differ in the lane way to play her, and also a bit on how to teamfight with her + thus how to build.
i think she suits best in a lane not as an aggressive approaching offensive force, like you seem to build for her with your heavy offensive page and heavy defensive page. I like her best as a defensive (but not passive) approach. where you wait for them to go up to you then you get the Q (which is easier to hit opposed to trying to chase after them THEN Q), and turn the tides of the trade with a W onto your ADC --> them (opposed to you trying to run up and use W on them and getting stunned and owned or using it on yourself etc).
and so thus to build for this i like to go more CDR focused build and go like 5/0/25 or something and get lots of the more utility stuff like the extra mana, extra busicuit / ward / scout etc. those luxuries you usually skip.
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On March 15 2013 09:50 Slusher wrote:
trying to find reasons to pick nami,
Clearly OP has a fetish for a certain anthropomorphic fish. Only explanation for this guide and OP's obsession over Nami.
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On March 21 2013 13:24 Rukio489 wrote:Clearly OP has a fetish for a certain anthropomorphic fish. Only explanation for this guide and OP's obsession over Nami.
Did you really sign up for the Team Liquid forums JUST to post that?
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On March 21 2013 13:32 Cheap0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:24 Rukio489 wrote:On March 15 2013 09:50 Slusher wrote:
trying to find reasons to pick nami, Clearly OP has a fetish for a certain anthropomorphic fish. Only explanation for this guide and OP's obsession over Nami. Did you really sign up for the Team Liquid forums JUST to post that?
i doubt he is new. he just made a new account to post this, without the fear of getting banned.
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On March 21 2013 17:59 damahammer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:32 Cheap0 wrote:On March 21 2013 13:24 Rukio489 wrote:On March 15 2013 09:50 Slusher wrote:
trying to find reasons to pick nami, Clearly OP has a fetish for a certain anthropomorphic fish. Only explanation for this guide and OP's obsession over Nami. Did you really sign up for the Team Liquid forums JUST to post that? i doubt he is new. he just made a new account to post this, without the fear of getting banned.
If he thinks that will work I think he must be rather new.
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On March 17 2013 17:41 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 13:22 Slusher wrote:
I do wish that somebody played her that was either a pro or a streamer, not because I want her to become more popular, but because all of my recommendations in the OP come from my own experiences, simply because there is no other data out there to gather on her.
I feel like thats why both this and the discussion in the GD thread have seen so much disagreement, there is no proven track record out there for anything other than the way you yourself play her.
also I'm really sorry about the synergy section, I ended up working 6 days this week zzz, I should have some time to get on it tomorrow but MLG is on so we'll see (read:mabye by tuesday)
I'm accepting any and all imput for ADs that aren't: Draven, Vayne, MF, Kog, EZ and Ashe, I have little to no experience with the other AD carries as partners so I'd be going purely off theory. (I guess I probly have as much as anyone with Quinn, she's just new/not played much) I feel she has no synergy at all if it's not Draven or MF or Caitlyn.
Why no mention for Twitch? Bloodwater/DMM made it look like the PERFECT combo, that stealth+Tidecaller power leading to straight up 2v2 kills against Doublelift's Cait + Lulu supporting him. (Even blowing through with a Shen ulti shield!)
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Pretty much any carry that deals their damage through autoattacks in lane is a good partner for Nami. Besides MF and Draven (who both deal damage with empowered autos), Vayne, Varus and Twitch are all auto-dependent champions that do well with Nami supporting them.
I think that replay shows how powerful Tidecaller's Blessing can be. I think that in that particular game it made some sense because a more powerful slow on Tidecaller's helps deal with an angry Volibear chasing your Kog'maw, while also helping assist a jungler who doesn't have a lot of cc (Trundle) gank. Part of the reason it looked good was because they managed to get kills for Kog.
I still think putting points into W is generally going to be better most of the time though. Kog and Nami got bullied around pretty hard early on, and I think points in W would have helped deal with that. Kog had to go back pretty early on, and Nami anticipated being beaten on by opening with 3 sight wards and 3 health pots.
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On March 22 2013 11:55 Cheap0 wrote:
Pretty much any carry that deals their damage through autoattacks in lane is a good partner for Nami. Besides MF and Draven (who both deal damage with empowered autos), Vayne, Varus and Twitch are all auto-dependent champions that do well with Nami supporting them.
Agreed. Especially those champions who really want to get a bunch of autoattacks in order to make something happen (this is true for all of: MF Twitch Vayne Varus)
And Draven is just a boss who deals a ton of damage.
I still stand by some of my statements earlier - when the carries are busy CSing, don't be afraid to E yourself and auto+W-harass with it (but be mindful of your mana)
Good auto range, and you can probably get at least 2 autos + the W's damage (if you line it up well, you can often have the W bounce off yourself and onto the other enemy champ.)
Other random factoids to note:
Ebb and Flow heals for almost as much on 1 target when you use W offensively as you do when you W defensively (initial hit of W is higher when used as an attack, and it reduces the same amount regardless of whether the first hit is an attack or a heal) Particularly good to know when only 1 person needs the heal.
Tidal wave is much more beastly at level 11/16, where the long-duration slow upgrades from 30% to 50% and 70%. 50% 4sec slow is ridiculously good.
Tidal wave usually makes a poor initiate because its slow-moving and dodgeable, but in the jungle or other areas of restricted movement (baron and dragon pits, for example) it is an amazing initiate because there isn't enough room to sidestep.
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On March 16 2013 03:44 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 17:15 Sponkz wrote:On March 14 2013 23:24 Sufficiency wrote:On March 12 2013 01:06 Sponkz wrote:On March 11 2013 23:37 Sufficiency wrote:
Mana Manipulator is a snowball item that you build when you are ahead. No it isn't. If you're snowballing it's actually efficient to buy gp10 and then build into your aegis/locket/shard of true ice. Why would you want so much mp5 anyways? Not really. GP10 items are the least efficient when it comes to its bonuses. You get GP10 items when you are ahead because you can afford to, not because you want to snowball. The bonus gold is what make gp10 worth it. Imagine a scenario, where you and your ad manages to kill both enemy laners really early (lvl 3-4), you get an xp advantage, you build your first gp10, congrats now you're ahead in experience and you generate more gold than the enemy support who most likely got stuck up buying 1 piece of his gp10 or nothing. Sure, but you are not snowballing with GP10s. When you buy a GP10, you are investing gold into long-term income, that's definitely not snowballing. To try to snowball you should be trying to build up items with real stats as quickly as possible.
It highly depends on the flow of the game. Sometimes, you're better off using your early advantage for gp10, if you have no way of making those 4/5-man team fights happen. If you somehow manage to get fed and end laning early, allowing you and your team to roam around, it can be better to invest alot on vision. And lastly, as you mention, if your team gets an early lead and can apply pressure through team-fights, you can purchase some sort of aura-heavy item.
But mainly the reason why i commented on your mana manipulator purchase, is because you might aswell just get gp10's in a situation like that, instead of buying extra mp5. It wasn't a direct point to "GP10 IS OP" or anything like that.
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On March 23 2013 23:20 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:44 Sufficiency wrote:On March 15 2013 17:15 Sponkz wrote:On March 14 2013 23:24 Sufficiency wrote:On March 12 2013 01:06 Sponkz wrote:On March 11 2013 23:37 Sufficiency wrote:
Mana Manipulator is a snowball item that you build when you are ahead. No it isn't. If you're snowballing it's actually efficient to buy gp10 and then build into your aegis/locket/shard of true ice. Why would you want so much mp5 anyways? Not really. GP10 items are the least efficient when it comes to its bonuses. You get GP10 items when you are ahead because you can afford to, not because you want to snowball. The bonus gold is what make gp10 worth it. Imagine a scenario, where you and your ad manages to kill both enemy laners really early (lvl 3-4), you get an xp advantage, you build your first gp10, congrats now you're ahead in experience and you generate more gold than the enemy support who most likely got stuck up buying 1 piece of his gp10 or nothing. Sure, but you are not snowballing with GP10s. When you buy a GP10, you are investing gold into long-term income, that's definitely not snowballing. To try to snowball you should be trying to build up items with real stats as quickly as possible. It highly depends on the flow of the game. Sometimes, you're better off using your early advantage for gp10, if you have no way of making those 4/5-man team fights happen. If you somehow manage to get fed and end laning early, allowing you and your team to roam around, it can be better to invest alot on vision. And lastly, as you mention, if your team gets an early lead and can apply pressure through team-fights, you can purchase some sort of aura-heavy item. But mainly the reason why i commented on your mana manipulator purchase, is because you might aswell just get gp10's in a situation like that, instead of buying extra mp5. It wasn't a direct point to "GP10 IS OP" or anything like that.
One thing that Zekent mentioned is hugely important that most supports dont realise. Basically he said that at top tier competition there are alot less gp10s bought (unless you get snowballed) simply because of the power you gain from buying actual items letting you win lane. An extra ruby crystal/ cloth armor early could mean the difference between winning the all in trades or losing by small margins.
Despite that however sightstone is probably the only gold item that is almost mandatory simply because a ruby sightstone is wards and a giants belt worth of health.
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It's 2 Ruby Crystals worth of health for 550 more gold. And you will likely not have one in laning phase. Regular sightstone sure but the Ruby one i dont think so
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On March 22 2013 12:49 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 11:55 Cheap0 wrote:
Pretty much any carry that deals their damage through autoattacks in lane is a good partner for Nami. Besides MF and Draven (who both deal damage with empowered autos), Vayne, Varus and Twitch are all auto-dependent champions that do well with Nami supporting them.
Agreed. Especially those champions who really want to get a bunch of autoattacks in order to make something happen (this is true for all of: MF Twitch Vayne Varus) And Draven is just a boss who deals a ton of damage. I still stand by some of my statements earlier - when the carries are busy CSing, don't be afraid to E yourself and auto+W-harass with it (but be mindful of your mana) Good auto range, and you can probably get at least 2 autos + the W's damage (if you line it up well, you can often have the W bounce off yourself and onto the other enemy champ.) Other random factoids to note: Ebb and Flow heals for almost as much on 1 target when you use W offensively as you do when you W defensively (initial hit of W is higher when used as an attack, and it reduces the same amount regardless of whether the first hit is an attack or a heal) Particularly good to know when only 1 person needs the heal. Tidal wave is much more beastly at level 11/16, where the long-duration slow upgrades from 30% to 50% and 70%. 50% 4sec slow is ridiculously good. Tidal wave usually makes a poor initiate because its slow-moving and dodgeable, but in the jungle or other areas of restricted movement (baron and dragon pits, for example) it is an amazing initiate because there isn't enough room to sidestep.
it also has insane range
plus its really funny to do it from out of their vision (like from brush or something). you just dont expect a tidal wave to appear out of that tiny patch of brush by dragon...
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On March 24 2013 05:33 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 12:49 sylverfyre wrote:On March 22 2013 11:55 Cheap0 wrote:
Pretty much any carry that deals their damage through autoattacks in lane is a good partner for Nami. Besides MF and Draven (who both deal damage with empowered autos), Vayne, Varus and Twitch are all auto-dependent champions that do well with Nami supporting them.
Agreed. Especially those champions who really want to get a bunch of autoattacks in order to make something happen (this is true for all of: MF Twitch Vayne Varus) And Draven is just a boss who deals a ton of damage. I still stand by some of my statements earlier - when the carries are busy CSing, don't be afraid to E yourself and auto+W-harass with it (but be mindful of your mana) Good auto range, and you can probably get at least 2 autos + the W's damage (if you line it up well, you can often have the W bounce off yourself and onto the other enemy champ.) Other random factoids to note: Ebb and Flow heals for almost as much on 1 target when you use W offensively as you do when you W defensively (initial hit of W is higher when used as an attack, and it reduces the same amount regardless of whether the first hit is an attack or a heal) Particularly good to know when only 1 person needs the heal. Tidal wave is much more beastly at level 11/16, where the long-duration slow upgrades from 30% to 50% and 70%. 50% 4sec slow is ridiculously good. Tidal wave usually makes a poor initiate because its slow-moving and dodgeable, but in the jungle or other areas of restricted movement (baron and dragon pits, for example) it is an amazing initiate because there isn't enough room to sidestep. it also has insane range plus its really funny to do it from out of their vision (like from brush or something). you just dont expect a tidal wave to appear out of that tiny patch of brush by dragon...
One of the things I really like to do if I'm on blue side is hide behind that little ridge near your tower leading up to the tri-bush and launch my ult from there. It really helps with connecting it since they see the wave suddenly appear and don't have a lot of time to react. It's also really nice if you're trying to assist your jungler in ganking.
EDIT: Just realized that that's pretty much what you just suggested anyway. Lol.
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On March 24 2013 01:34 Bladeorade wrote:
It's 2 Ruby Crystals worth of health for 550 more gold. And you will likely not have one in laning phase. Regular sightstone sure but the Ruby one i dont think so
If you've already spent the 475 on upgrading a ruby crystal into a sightstone, you can't complain about the ruby sightstone upgrade being 2 ruby crystals for 550 more gold. That's a massive fallacy.
If you have a regular sightstone, the ruby one is an additional ruby crystal's worth of health, without taking a slot + Show Spoiler +slots are gonna be a problem around now because you have 1-2 slots for wards / pinks, a sightstone, probably some potions, and components for a team utility item.
You're buying at MINIMUM 1 extra ward and an item slot - you're basically paying 50 gold for an item slot if you only used it to place ONE SIGHT WARD EVER.
If you like ruby crystals at all, get a damn ruby sightstone. If you relaly need to stack health early, I don't care if your build path is Ruby Crystal -> Ruby Crystal -> sightstone -> ruby sightstone.
Another reason why it's so good to cast Tidal Wave from out of vision is that the cast animation and cast time are really long and obvious. Nami like, twirls her staff and slams it down, and THEN the wave comes out. You're giving them at MINIMUM 0.5 sec less time to react if they can't see you cast it.
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EPT
